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Tech II farce continues without any regard to players

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Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 15:38:00 - [1] Its now X weeks since the "introduction of tech II" and its also a few weeks sine the first miniscule batch of Tech II BPs were given out. Some may wonder why they aren't seeing even those Tech II modules being sold much: The answer is simply that for many of the T2 Blueprints their requisite Tech 1 blueprint - the blueprints needed to make the tech 1 component item which goes to make the final t2 item - many of those blueprnts are STILL missing. EVE Players have been promised over and over in a variety of places, from dev chats to CSM to comment son IRC, that the "Missing T1 BPS will be added" - even giving dates and promises of "Tomorrow at latest". This farcical situation has perpetuated itself for well over 3 weeks at least and is now capped by Lekjart claiming that CCP have now unilaterally gone back on their word and will now introduce these missing T1 BPs through agents. How much more farce can we add to this shoddy example of mismanagement of Castor release of T2? Simply what is the point in allowing t2 blueprints to go out where th only means for owners to produce items is to wait for random drops of the required T1 item and hope players dont just recycle them rather than selling them. I was unaware that T2 was to be "the patch of the trade channel" where all manufacturers were obliged to sit in Trade for 18 hours a day so they can eek out maybe hald a dozen components from the entie galactic population. Enough really is enough. CCP need to once and for all stop this ignorant behanviour and tell us precisely where these misisng BPs are and when they will be added into the system. Saying "slowly through agents" is NOT an answer though. It is a fudge that avoids the entire mismanaged release. WHya aren't those BPs out now EVEN if through the agent system? Clearly something is wrong or its yet another internal misscommunication disaster within CCP with one dev thinking another Dev had done X, Y or Z. Stop buggering about with your players CCP and start giving us some definitive answer. Tech II is NOT here, nor ever will be, until we at least have T1 properly out. Sort it out and stop playing us for idiots, we're customers promised actions and being repeatedly let down time and time again with dithering devs incapable of the basic levels of honesty and openess required in any business. Sort it out.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.02.03 15:58:00 - [2] Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 03/02/2004 16:00:09 Oh I bet they're saying the prints are out, mistakenly dropped as loot the first week of retail to a player not having logged on for the last 6 months but it's still there! Seriously CCP you need a better tool to overlook what is in and what isn't, I know I could use on for my corporation... Convert Stations
GALAGA	Posted - 2004.02.03 15:58:00 - [3] I agree with you Morkt, but tell us which tech 1 bp you need to make your tech 2 item and maybe we can help you. ----------------------------------------------- "The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not."
Tano	Posted - 2004.02.03 15:59:00 - [4] Just to say I second Morkt on this. We have a T2 bp and other than some very short runs we have not used it as getting the T1 item is imposible in any quantity.
Bonnie Parker	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:01:00 - [5] Edited by: Bonnie Parker on 03/02/2004 16:02:19 I agree. And an added problem is the effect this has on people who have specialized in DCM. The price of Morphite is dropping dramatically day after day because theres no demand for it in any great quantaties at the moment. So basically, anyone who mines Ark and Bist are selling thier 'by-product' morphite for cheaper and cheaper prices just to get rid of it. That in turn is taking away the insentive to Deep Core Miners to bother mining Mercoxit with its Pollution Clouds and 40m3 volume. May as well stick to Ark and Bist since thats producing more than enough Morphite to satisfy the demand atm. Why CCP allowed you to get Morphite from anything but Mercoxit I'll never know. They've screwed all those that wanted to specialise in DCM. Get the high end tech 2 BP's on the market and increase the demand for morphite else DCM will be a complete waste of time and skill points.
Skaz	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:05:00 - [6] And not to mention that Tech 2 can't be sold on the market... I still have to see a useful tech 2 item for sale. "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
Toulak	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:08:00 - [7] Quote: I still have to see a useful tech 2 item for sale. So T2 backup arrays arnt useful?
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:10:00 - [8] What kind of noncense is it that tech1 still needs to be released while the tech2 bp's are ingame? That ain't normal, ccp fix it! __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Bonnie Parker	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:11:00 - [9] Quote: Quote: I still have to see a useful tech 2 item for sale. So T2 backup arrays arnt useful? Not useful to a Deep Core Miner unless it takes a lot of Morphite to make one!
Builder	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:12:00 - [10] Sad fact is that 90% of tech 1 items, and thereforce tech 2 items, are utter crap and will never be used. The so called 'lottery' of tech 2 items is a utter and total joke, I mean what would u rather have, tech 2 dual 150mm railgun bp, or cargo expander 2 bp? Anyone with a brain wants the expanders... And TBH morkt at least agent ***s are GETTING bps, where are the OTHER ways of getting bps and others stuff we were promised? Oh thats right they ARENT IN, welcome to AGENT *** online people... St... Builder
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:12:00 - [11] Yup, ridiculous. We as players have made lists of the missing blueprints how many times now? Still they are never added, patch after patch we are ignored. We are told the missing blueprints will be added, they never are. We are told the missing blueprints are available via agent missions, but this is not true. Only one I can think of that is, is a shield boost amplifier I. CCP, just add the blueprints, how much time could it possibly take? We have made lists, you know what is missing from the market. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:16:00 - [12] Quote: Sad fact is that 90% of tech 1 items, and thereforce tech 2 items, are utter crap and will never be used. The so called 'lottery' of tech 2 items is a utter and total joke, I mean what would u rather have, tech 2 dual 150mm railgun bp, or cargo expander 2 bp? Anyone with a brain wants the expanders... And TBH morkt at least agent ***s are GETTING bps, where are the OTHER ways of getting bps and others stuff we were promised? Oh thats right they ARENT IN, welcome to AGENT *** online people... St... Builder WEll if you kill a thousand Gallente Navy Detectives you might get a medium carbon ammo BP! SO many broken primises along this route - I wish they would just fix the simply ones we have all been waiting so long for. As Jim pointed out: We did what you asked CCP, now do what you promised.
Kaaii	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:17:00 - [13] Id like to know why none of the other "schools" of bps haven't been released yet. ie Nanite stuff, new rockets(missiles?), or anything else. Not that these wouldn't have the same problems now faced by those above, but what is the critieria for releasing "backup arrays" and not "missiles".... "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
Skaz	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:17:00 - [14] Edited by: Skaz on 03/02/2004 16:18:02 Quote: Quote: I still have to see a useful tech 2 item for sale. So T2 backup arrays arnt useful? Like I said, I haven't seen them Seeing is believing, unless the other guy is bluffing. "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:20:00 - [15] Agreed. The situation is slightly silly.
Lomex	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:22:00 - [16] I really should stop reading these forums, I find myself not only agreeing with Morkt but also Jade. IN THE SAME DAY!?! I must lie down. Morkt is totally right though, time and again we see the results of a lack of communication within CCP. We are your customers, and we are telling you your company isn't perfect. What ever problems there are with the actual product aside. The 'customer service' speak that constantly leaves CCP devs/cs/gms mouths in order to placate us for just one more week serves nothing but to frustrate your customers. Try telling us the truth, but first please make sure it IS the truth. It may hurt, but its the right thing to do. ___________________________________________ Join in the NEW Sci-Fi Quiz
Lucas De'Thal	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:26:00 - [17] i don't know what i would do without tech2. it's the greatest thing that CCP has released. ______________________________________________ Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter dev chat: Mar 18, 2004 hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S " dev chat: Feb 12, 2004
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Ukiah on 03/02/2004 16:29:22 Screw filling the gaps in tech I bp's. I WANT MORE UI tweaks/redesigns! I'm still not satisfied with the 'loading' animated icon. I want a third, configurable one. Also, can you devote some time to changing the status bars. I want mine to be red! /me sarcasm mode off
Amin	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:29:00 - [19] Heh, iv been complaining about the missing bp for over 4 months now. Every time i petition it i get told they "are found through rare rat drops, spawn containers, agent rewards". But the only times iv ever heard of bp being in spawn containers if during the first weeks of retail when the loot table was fubar. A few CSM's ago TomB did ask for a list of missing bp and said something along the lines of "come on IRC and bug me until they are in". Few weeks ago they added new some bp in Heimtar but nothing since. Pann, devs, anyone? Can we get a reply on this? Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator Caldari State Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kaaii	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:34:00 - [20] I think they should have released "expendable" item bps. That way there would be a "supply AND demand" for these items, such as gun ammo, missiles, drones etc. It would have created a T2 tier market that actually has some movment. The Agnet runners would have benifited (supply of tools and resources), the miners would have benifited, (mins), Scientists, bpcs,..traders (the non-T2 base mfg equipment/supplies) even the rats (ganking all of the above ) I mean, just how many back up sensors do you buy a week anyway?? OR any of the other T2 ship equipment? Seems logicial to me, but, what do I know... "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
Prophecy	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:34:00 - [21] While I understand your frustration Morkt, I think that you're incorrect about it being a mistake or ignorance on CCPs part. Rather than committing themselves to the effort of delivering future content to keep players interested, CCPs approach is going to be to trickle miniscule tidbits of their original promise. Their goal is not to create an interesting or complete game, or even to keep players online. Just to keep them shelling out their 12.95 a month on the hope that Eve might eventually live up to its potential. It's not mismanagement, it's clever manipulation. It'll trickle in just fast enough to keep the majority of players from getting fed up and canceling their accounts, but no faster. And given that your choices are to throw away the 8+ months you've already invested in this game, or to deal with the manner in which CCP has decided to play this out, they've got you exactly where they want you.
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:35:00 - [22] So typical of todays society, you want everything and wanted it yesterday!! Nice whine Morkt, lots of constructive help for the Devs there. May be you should take over? Rome wasn't built in a day ffs!! --------------------------------------------- If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field That is for ever England.
DB Preacher	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:37:00 - [23] I agree with Morkt and Jim. If it had been something uber difficult like player stations then no. However, we are talking about the simple addition of BP's that are missing from the market. CCP has the list, we are still waiting two weeks after the patch that they were going to go into. Please, CCP, sort this out. dbp Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:43:00 - [24] Edited by: j0sephine on 03/02/2004 16:44:12 Well, 'tis last semi-official bit of info on the issue: As for the latest update, "pong: small technical dillemas but will be there after the next update on tranq not a 100% when exacly that is". I should note that 'next update' can mean different things in different contexts, and in this case probably refers to the next DB update the game design crew pushes to TQ. Not necessarily the next downtime, or even the next patch. ... and yeah, the fact 'small technical dillemas' seem to be holding back quite crucial part of game for unspecified period of time, with no apparent concern from the developers... is quite worrying. Or would be, if i cared. >>;
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:43:00 - [25] Quote: While I understand your frustration Morkt, I think that you're incorrect about it being a mistake or ignorance on CCPs part. Rather than committing themselves to the effort of delivering future content to keep players interested, CCPs approach is going to be to trickle miniscule tidbits of their original promise. Their goal is not to create an interesting or complete game, or even to keep players online. Just to keep them shelling out their 12.95 a month on the hope that Eve might eventually live up to its potential. It's not mismanagement, it's clever manipulation. It'll trickle in just fast enough to keep the majority of players from getting fed up and canceling their accounts, but no faster. And given that your choices are to throw away the 8+ months you've already invested in this game, or to deal with the manner in which CCP has decided to play this out, they've got you exactly where they want you. Not really: You miss the obvious point: They release tech 2 blueprints BEFORE their Tech 1 counterparts were available. The manner or speed of release is irrelevant - the order is another matter. Or do you think we should be getting tech 4 before tech 3?
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:45:00 - [26] Edited by: Morkt Drak on 03/02/2004 16:55:39 Quote: So typical of todays society, you want everything and wanted it yesterday!! Nice whine Morkt, lots of constructive help for the Devs there. May be you should take over? Rome wasn't built in a day ffs!! Become aquainted with both the length of this problem and its issue such as T2 item BPs being released before T1 item BPs for the same module type: Rome wasn't built in a day but they did build the foundations first and not second or third or fourth... (Now I see Illian's point about adulation clearly though)
Amin	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:46:00 - [27] It really depends of what the devs had planned (assuming there was planning ), Maybe they are supposed to be rare, to try and create a market for owners of rare t1 bp. But if this is the case there needs to be a supply of them from somewhere. Agents certainly dont hand the missing bp out and well i beleive its a myth that rats drop bp, cos iv never heard of it happening from a realiable source. On the other hand if the devs have simply just forgotton then they should add them in asap. The real frustration with is whole business is the conflicting responses we get from the devs. Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator Caldari State Citizen ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:48:00 - [28] Morkt I know this doesn't solve your problem but if you told us what you need I will get with the rest of JF and see what of those mods we have. Thats about all the player base can really do.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:52:00 - [29] Quote: Morkt I know this doesn't solve your problem but if you told us what you need I will get with the rest of JF and see what of those mods we have. Thats about all the player base can really do. It might solve my individual issue Muad but it doesn't resolve the overall issue: and that's what im bothered about right now.
Skaz	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:58:00 - [30] Quote: Heh, iv been complaining about the missing bp for over 4 months now. Every time i petition it i get told they "are found through rare rat drops, spawn containers, agent rewards". But the only times iv ever heard of bp being in spawn containers if during the first weeks of retail when the loot table was fubar. A few CSM's ago TomB did ask for a list of missing bp and said something along the lines of "come on IRC and bug me until they are in". Few weeks ago they added new some bp in Heimtar but nothing since. Pann, devs, anyone? Can we get a reply on this? I propose that we actually go on IRC and totally bug Tomb until he gives in, I can also arrange the disclosure of his telephone no. and address if you are so inclined But seriously though this isn't very positive, I mean Cargo Expander 1 was released nearly half a year after release, an item that should have been in since retail! "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.03 16:59:00 - [31] Edited by: Stront3h on 03/02/2004 17:04:16 deleted, cba now its only a game after all....
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 17:08:00 - [32] Quote: How would you feel if someone walked up to you (that has no idea of the full extent of your job) and just said 'sort it'. Personally I'd be inclined to give 'em the bird. Where as if someone were to adopt a more subtle approach, I'd be more inclined to speed up what I was doing or offer a reason for the delay. The way you lot are going on any one would think you took your car to the garage 21 days ago with the promise of it being fixed the next day. Is this not a game?... Your "input" in this thread is of no use at all and is deliberate trolling. More importantly you are totally wrong. Really - please just aquaint yourself with the lengths of time involved in this, the various attempts at resolution, the broken existing promises and the rest of the facts before trying to preach. If you can't be bothered to do that then don't try to take a moral highground - it doesn't exist and you make yourself look foolish. Its also as close to trolling as you can get. Quote: How would you feel if someone walked up to you (that has no idea of the full extent of your job) Stop making gross assumptions either.
Muaddid	Posted - 2004.02.03 17:08:00 - [33] Dont forget the fact that Frigate construction skill is unavaible and thus anyone with a tech 2 frigate BP can do... nothing with it because that silly skill is character creation only On vacations (need a new sig too)
Prophecy	Posted - 2004.02.03 17:30:00 - [34] Quote: Not really: You miss the obvious point: They release tech 2 blueprints BEFORE their Tech 1 counterparts were available. The manner or speed of release is irrelevant - the order is another matter. Or do you think we should be getting tech 4 before tech 3? Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but I'm not missing the point. How difficult do you think it is to put a BP on the market? or to add a component to the system that's equivalent to an existing one, just with slightly different numbers? What's happening isn't a mistake, they're doing it on purpose. The tech-1 bps are one aspect of the tech-2 release, since the tech-1 components are necessary to the manufacturing process. And they are intended to be there, as much has been said. Yet they, along with every other part of tech-2 is trickling in a snails pace. It'll be months yet before tech-2 is actually 'here.' You're approaching this from the perspective that CCP made a mistake. Instead take the perspective of leverage and motivation. You have recently acquired a tech-2 bp, so it's pretty unlikely that you'll be going anywhere. You have no leverage. It's in CCPs interest to drag this out as long as possible; the longer they can dangle the carrot of tech-2, the longer they have before they have to deliver something that's actually new. The missing tech-1 bps are easy enough to withhold to slow things down without any real consequence to CCPs bottom line. Watch how the next weeks and months unfold, and how quickly your BPs actually appear on the market. (compared to the few minutes effort it will actually take) Adopt a bit of healthy cynicism, and everything will probably make a good deal more sense.
JackDonkey	Posted - 2004.02.03 17:49:00 - [35] seems like an odd coincidence that most of the tech 2 blueprints are for stuff where the tech 1 blueprint is not available. Which leads me to believe that there is a reason for it.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 17:51:00 - [36] I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly. SImple put we have been told they WILL add these missing BPs - and they haven't. We have asked for LISTS, which were provided, so that COULD add the missing BPs to the market. Note, not to the agents system but to the market. We've been asked to hassle people until its done, but then they didn't do it. Your points are fine and well and good except simple for the fact that they ahve stated they were not doing that and would add the BPs directly. EVEN, were that not so we know that the entire affair was mismanaged inorder. They tested the agent distribution system with a T1 BP - then released T2s. They had the opportunity (and the lists) at tht time to release the T1s at appropriate times but did not. Not matter which way you look at it, and with the best will in the world, its been hashed and it is a farce. Its also a farce that needs resolution and some honest unambiguous answers to resolve. At the end of the day it isnt asking for mutch.. especially not after having been promised it over and over and over.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.02.03 18:33:00 - [37] Quote: I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly. But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Tigersbane	Posted - 2004.02.03 18:35:00 - [38] Anyone else spot the remarkable lack of input from those that matter?
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 18:43:00 - [39] Quote: Quote: I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly. But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make. As much as it galls me to say it - there is that.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.02.03 18:52:00 - [40] "But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make." ... On the other hand, don't presume malice for what ineptude can explain. Occam's Razor and all that. :s
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.02.03 18:56:00 - [41] Quote: "But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make." ... On the other hand, don't presume malice for what ineptude can explain. Occam's Razor and all that. :s What a choice to have: Lies or Incompetence I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:00:00 - [42] Is it possible there is something we aren't seeing? Is it possible they can't just tell us? I know that would be an easy copout but is it possible that's it?
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:04:00 - [43] Quote: Is it possible there is something we aren't seeing? Is it possible they can't just tell us? I know that would be an easy copout but is it possible that's it? Probably...Despite my sarcastic comment, I do believe there may be a piece of the puzzle missing. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:16:00 - [44] Edited by: Morkt Drak on 03/02/2004 19:18:14 i rather thinkits more to do with a side-effect of the agent BP system. If they have indeed done a u-turn and put them into the agent system it is feasible they will never come to light during the course of the entire game. "One" would hope they catered for that possibility but given their history... Given the far higher probability of T1 BPs being rejected also - sorry but its still a farce and a mess. No way around it.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:27:00 - [45] It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items. For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months. The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long. They are either lieing, or are incompetent.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:42:00 - [46] Quote: It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items. For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months. The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long. They are either lieing, or are incompetent. Oh suuuuure. Put it squarely on me I just distilled what was already being said. As for the bps being rejected, I can't find which developer said it. But apparently if a bp is rejected enough, eventually the bp goes onto the market automatically. So theoretically and allegedly, if the TL1 bps are part of the agent system and people keep declining them to hold out for a TL2 bp... I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Kronarty	Posted - 2004.02.03 19:59:00 - [47] I think the explanation is quite simple, and we are not going to like it: This game is being developed VERY slowly, while the players are progressing much faster than the devs want. One way to stop players is this thing they are doing, VERY SLOW tech2 rollout, having basic tech1 items unavailable, lowering mission rewards, nerfing npc hunting, making high ore mining an impossible task in some systems... I don't think there is anything technical involved in all this, it is just their choice, it is their choice to lie to customers deliberately if it gives them enough time to get things done. Tech2 is the proverbial carrot while they get their act together and develop POS's for Shiva, and anyone who thinks Shiva is going to make it on time... I, for one, do not. Also, what good is it to have an interceptor if NO ONE can fly it because the skill is not yet available? Stops stops and more stops 2 level 5 skills required to fly an interceptor (the first tech2 ship). Don't forget that is a frigate, with bells and whistles but a simple frigate after all. What's going to happen to cruisers and battleships?? Even more! WTH is Tech3 going to have as skill requirements? More stops! We players are overtaking the devs, they can only stop us in this way. You have only to analyze their statements and when they made them: A few weeks after release, they lied about reverse engineering. It was not IN and is not IN yet, even if they said it was! How many people wasted time training science skills trying to get reverse engineering to work? Then people started asking about stations (which existed back in beta) and they said: Well, it would take all of eve's players a week mining to make one. They lied! They don't even know now how much a station will cost! "pirates drop blueprints". No comments... Stations and tech2 were, for weeks, "just a couple of weeks away" There is lies, damn lies, statistics and CCP dev chats/interviews! I would love them admitting it instead of lying and lying and lying yet again.
KIAHicks	Posted - 2004.02.03 20:36:00 - [48] I'm sure I read somewhere that tech 1 items will come out via agent missions now. If nobody accepts those missing tech 1 bp's then eventually ccp will add them to the general market. I don't think all tech 1 bp's have to be available when tech 2 bp's come out. Although I do agree that the tech 1 items required to build a tech 2 item should have the tech 1 bp available before the tech2 bp is available. The other way around just wouldn't make sense :P But I don't think every tech 1 bp must be out before the very first tech 2 bp is out. BTW those people who are not accepting the tech 1 bp agent offers (if anyone is in fact getting them) could be missing out on a bit of money if these items are not available on the market and required in tech 2 production. Then again, you'd also be missing out on money if you accept it and miss out on a tech 2 bp :P Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.03 20:39:00 - [49] Quote: I'm sure I read somewhere that tech 1 items will come out via agent missions now. If nobody accepts those missing tech 1 bp's then eventually ccp will add them to the general market. WHich could take monts (even years) in theory. Your second point hits the nail on the head - no T2 bp should be released withouts its T1 counterpart already being available "somewhere".
Dracule	Posted - 2004.02.03 20:50:00 - [50] Quote: So typical of todays society, you want everything and wanted it yesterday!! Nice whine Morkt, lots of constructive help for the Devs there. May be you should take over? Rome wasn't built in a day ffs!! LMFAO, he just wants TECH 1 blueprints ASAP so that he can use his TECH 2 blueprints, its not whining so get real. Peaple have been giving constructive posts to the devs but they failed to either read them or failed to understand them if the actually read them. Perhaps you need to read his post again b4 you start mouthing off and then you relise we have tech 2 in the game but not all tech 1 . so bugger off fool.
Murple	Posted - 2004.02.03 21:14:00 - [51] I've been saying this stuff all along. CCP has a long history in Eve of being either A) dishonest or B) incompetent/lazy I used to think it was B but I'm leaning more toward A now. It's a real shame, a relationship built on dishonesty is a relationship doomed to fail. Gotta love my city-sized roid vacuum cleaner!
Hematic	Posted - 2004.02.03 21:59:00 - [52] Lying or ineptitude I suppose goes hand in hand with CCPs history thus far. I am reminded of two things which fit the same choice. Insta-jump bookmarks "Were never intended to be used that way" Tech II tools with mega & Zyd "The fact that they contain mega and zyd is a bug" "We're Giving you 10 free days during Christmas time to check out the new Tech II release". Sure Richard. I hate to say this but the gal who mentioned this being an intentional delay I think has a point. CCP has gotten their average numbers back up to a certain degree and it was soley because of the phantom "tech II". I strnagly believe there a number of players waiting to evaluate the game post-tech II. Once the BPs are in full circulation expect the server numbers to start falling again. CCP I think sees this and is attempting to formulate plans that can ebb that flow. If there is always a carrot to chase then people will tend to stay until they get there. They leverage that with, like the other gal said, one's invested time betting that people stay a little longer just to see what's on the next rise ad infinitum... The only reason even some Tech II BPs were released was to sate the mob. They were ALL for items that aren't game dominating items. Mainly frigate level equipment that wouldn't turn the tide of PvP encounters to any marked degree. Example: Apparently the tech II equivalent of a med. slot cap recharger is 15% as opposed to the 14% of the best named one of Tech I. Not that one shouldn't demand service from their service provider, something tells me that unless it involves a mass exodus from the game requests fall on deaf ears.
Masimo	Posted - 2004.02.03 22:32:00 - [53] Server pop on the raise why should CCP give a fack about anything else? Money is number 1. They cant even be arsed to reply on this thread; just goes to show Keep up the great work p.s. Stop adding new ****, cant u even get old bugs/missing stuff sorted ?
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.03 23:11:00 - [54] Quote: Quote: It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items. For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months. The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long. They are either lieing, or are incompetent. Oh suuuuure. Put it squarely on me I just distilled what was already being said. As for the bps being rejected, I can't find which developer said it. But apparently if a bp is rejected enough, eventually the bp goes onto the market automatically. So theoretically and allegedly, if the TL1 bps are part of the agent system and people keep declining them to hold out for a TL2 bp... But them shoulders of yours look so broad, just right for carrying the blame
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2004.02.03 23:20:00 - [55] I dont think CCP actualy have a list of the BP's and if they are in game or not, they can not even keep the descriptions and layout's consistant. Even in a dev chat TomB says "oh I did not know that was the problem" - do you guys do QA? Apart from that great game, you just need more staff = more content It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Popov	Posted - 2004.02.03 23:21:00 - [56] Must agree with Morkt too, the whole tech 2 introduction has so far been a farce of epic proportions. Sort it out please, this is really making CCP look bad (like they needed help)
Ada Isdead	Posted - 2004.02.03 23:40:00 - [57] Edited by: Ada Isdead on 03/02/2004 23:42:02 two things: Firstly iirc the mini-CSM questions where asked before the latest dev chat and CSM, so it's way out of date. Secondly: Will people with Tech II BP's who need Tech I modules please, Please, PLEASE post what modules they need so we can check our junk piles for them. Collectivly we can probably get items together, or at least leave them in escrow for people that want to start on tech II.
Alli	Posted - 2004.02.04 00:26:00 - [58] I couln't agree more with Morkt Dark. ccp get your acct to gether!! Alli
Enderweeks	Posted - 2004.02.04 00:42:00 - [59] Quote: Dont forget the fact that Frigate construction skill is unavaible and thus anyone with a tech 2 frigate BP can do... nothing with it because that silly skill is character creation only I have the skill - so if anyone wants assitance contact me I don't think anyone with a T2 BP is going to let anyone know which T1 BP they need because they don't want to be held to ransom.
Baun	Posted - 2004.02.04 02:39:00 - [60] how exactly did you come by the frigate construction skill? The Enemy's Gate is Down
Beseb	Posted - 2004.02.04 02:39:00 - [61] No question CCP has run out of excuses not to release T1 BP's for modules that are pre-reqs for existing T2 BP's. That's a huge duh. My take on why T2 is rolling out like molasses is that CCP urgently needed to get subscribers re-subscribed (I fell for it and re-activated 2 of my accounts). Business is business and the attrition rate of subscribers was clearly too high. Now the problem, CCP hasn't balanced these modules. They have trickled in some defensive modules and will probably continue to do so until there is good saturation. That's a must before they release any offensive modules. Because you can be assured that if a player got ganked by a rack of T2 1400mm and didn't have access to a T2 XL Booster, there would be hell to pay. Then the balancing act will start all over again as CCP reviews what players are doing with the new toys. The second part of the equation is probably along the lines of the Miner II roll out. Let the few players with the BP's make some money off thier new inventions, and then release more broadly. In any case, they need to seriously step up this process. I was running some numbers and at this rate, we won't have a substantial T2 introduction for about another 600 weeks....
Maxstar	Posted - 2004.02.04 04:11:00 - [62] they say agent missions and some BP are coming frm agent mission. find a corp that makes your tech 2 stuff and do missions The BP should not be on market, It will give the people who have the a market to sell product when tech do arrive. Maybe this is their goal
GALAGA	Posted - 2004.02.04 04:33:00 - [63] Well Morkt, I have a Smurgleblaster I origonal bp and if you are interested, I will trade you 5 copies for 1 copy of your Smurgleblaster II bp. Contact me in Inaro. :P ----------------------------------------------- "The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not."
Blacklight	Posted - 2004.02.04 05:44:00 - [64] Edited by: Blacklight on 04/02/2004 05:45:23 Major rant was about to spew forth but I'm too tired... and feeling defeated by this treadmill of a game. I know corporations with 20+ people running various R&D missions that have maybe 1 or 2 T2 bps that are not worth the effort. I hear people everyday saying I can't face another agent mission ... but I know I have to in case that all important bp comes along.... what kind of fun is that?? T2 is in my opinion a pile of miss-managed crap, adding little content, very little excitement or player stimulation and most definitely having a negative impact on peoples enjoyment of the game. Where's the fun in working through 20 hours of agent missions to find out that one of the most critical peices of the manufacturing process are missing? Ok so a flood of new tech will be bad and will only benefit the powergamers in the short term, however to introduce T2 at this shocking snail's pace is ridiculous. Eve Blacklight Style
Skillshot	Posted - 2004.02.04 07:10:00 - [65] im sad to say, though eve is a better game ( starting off ) then one that is simmilar which came out right before it, it is doing the same thing. Decieveing its customer base, lieing to the public, manipulateing real world marketing, paying off ( in 1 form or another oh like going to a collage and handing out 5000 30 or 90 day copies of eve to get inflated log in numbers ) though from a buisness perspective they seem to be savy execpt for 1 small problem, they forgot about the product and its quality and are solely focused on the marking of a failing project.
Fuse	Posted - 2004.02.04 07:16:00 - [66] My dog ate the tech 1 bp(s) and the tech 2 bp(s). Shrug. Ill have it soon (tm). 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.02.04 09:07:00 - [67] Tech II may or may not solve some of the market / economy issues. My personal opinion is that everything else will remain the same, and that is the important thing. There is a saying about this kind of things... "Same sh1t different a55hole". Storyline / content is repetitious, unimaginative and so distant it becomes more frustrating after each piece i read. Dependance on agents is ridiculous to say the least, it is completely against the spirit of a Massive MULTI-FOCKING-PLAYER Online Game. I won't even touch Combat. Hah and some of you thought Morkt was whining when he simply asked for T1 bps..... W A K E UP!. Pain is meant to be felt
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.04 09:41:00 - [68] Quote: While I understand your frustration Morkt, I think that you're incorrect about it being a mistake or ignorance on CCPs part. Rather than committing themselves to the effort of delivering future content to keep players interested, CCPs approach is going to be to trickle miniscule tidbits of their original promise. Their goal is not to create an interesting or complete game, or even to keep players online. Just to keep them shelling out their 12.95 a month on the hope that Eve might eventually live up to its potential. It's not mismanagement, it's clever manipulation. It'll trickle in just fast enough to keep the majority of players from getting fed up and canceling their accounts, but no faster. And given that your choices are to throw away the 8+ months you've already invested in this game, or to deal with the manner in which CCP has decided to play this out, they've got you exactly where they want you. Untill the next big thing hits the street, WoW anyone? -------------------------
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.04 10:08:00 - [69] WoW is very silly though. Just more of the same ogres/swords/dwarves crap.
sahel	Posted - 2004.02.04 10:56:00 - [70] Getting back on topic - is there any chance we can get an official comment on this please? What is happening with the missing T1 blueprints? Have they been released into the game and if so can we at least have a clue how to obtain them?
JP Beauregard	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:05:00 - [71] Right. I can't hold back anymore. Two cents coming.... As j0sephine correctly said, "don't presume malice for what ineptude can explain". CCP has a track record of utter shoddiness in planning and execution. We're talking about people who forget to change skill descriptions when they change skill effects, neglect to introduce components/skills required for new items and mislabel items with wrong skill requirements because copy & paste backwards is easy. No brainers all, but hey, why use your brains when balls alone will be enough to fudge it? But hey, we get acronyms for station names. Gee whiz. Yes, doing your job properly is probably too frikkin hard. Bottom line: dear devs, please review your procedures, for design and implementation and QA, and for Pete's sake, start talking with each other before you screw up even more. Tech II is enough of a sick joke on the design side without the missing bps; advertising tech II as the second coming and then introducing tech II half-baked is an insult. JP Beauregard === The Pilkington Guides to EVE ===
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:07:00 - [72] It would appear that quite a large number of people are unhappy. CCP will probably act quite quickly then, to avoid any unneccessary subscriber loss.
arutha	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:22:00 - [73] how about with dcm . you get layered response from riods . you do a veld riod . with a dcm laser you get a small but significant amount of pyrite . you do a plag riod with dcm . and get a small amount of isogen . and the ladder keeps increasing . that way dcm is very usefull and a good thing too train ? . the bluprint thing . i dunno . maybe ccp beleaves there would be a huge game balance problem . if everything was just introduced overnight . but i have sympathy for people who have been doing agent missions for a month now and have thousands of unsold components on the market . cause theres no demand . i dont have any sympathy what soo ever forthe whiners over them not producing megacyte and zydrine in reprocessing anymore though. it wasent the intent for there use . im not researcher . but i gota say ccp has too cater for those who get a thrill outta doing there missions and getting a new blueprint too put together for tech2 . these people have invested alot of there time . and they arent getting there fun out of the game . because its being introduced soo very slowly regards arutha
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:33:00 - [74] Just thought of something I`ve seen since the day EVE was released. Supposedly BP`s can come from killing npc`s as well right? (3% chance or something) I`m not talking about mission kill npc`s but normal belt/POI npc`s. Having killed a GAZILLION npc`s myself (as that`s how I mostly make money besides the pauses of doing missions), I can safely say there are no BP`s dropped by rats anymore. (I`ve heard of them dropping in the past but haven`t gotten one myself... no....no collossal unluckiness please) This could solve a lot of issues if it was implemented as it is described. By now a lot of BP`s would have been available. Half measure though... ...I don`t like being played for an idiot by CCP on wild goose chases and treadmils. Get your act together CCP. Soon the ppl that got free trial days for the game by buying a magazine will start leaving and the online numbers dropping.
Aralis	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:35:00 - [75] Come on CCP. Are you listening? Stop messing around and get on with it. Why are you making pathetic little changes to things that work fine (eg names of stations on the warp list) rather than launching tech 2? (This joke is not a launch.) You are far too obsessed with "balance". I for one don't care if lasers are better than projectiles or vice versa. In real life things aren't balanced. They change from favouring one thing to another. Players will balance themselves. Good players on the ball will always have better ships - fine. Just get on with it!
Moph	Posted - 2004.02.04 11:55:00 - [76] As well here... All I cad add that it seems to me game designers actually lost control...
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.04 12:05:00 - [77] I think exactly the opposite is true. CCP are completely in control here.
Ylang Star	Posted - 2004.02.04 12:30:00 - [78] Quote: It would appear that quite a large number of people are unhappy. CCP will probably act quite quickly then, to avoid any unneccessary subscriber loss. Agreed, and I add to this thread only for CCP to know that something is very wrong in their knigdom... "I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.02.04 12:37:00 - [79] Quote: Agreed, and I add to this thread only for CCP to know that something is very wrong in their knigdom... yes well..... we all know this to be true. at the same time we know nothing will be done. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Enderweeks	Posted - 2004.02.04 15:54:00 - [80] Quote: how exactly did you come by the frigate construction skill? fyi Baun it was available as a start-up skill and foolishly i thought it was required to build ships (progression frigate, cruiser etc.) - by the time i'd worked that out I didn't want to restart my character.
Baun	Posted - 2004.02.04 16:46:00 - [81] lol gotcha. Sounds somewhat similiar to me not restarting my char after i realized a month into the game that my 11 base charisma was worthless. Out of curiosity, what sequence of choices did you have to make to get that skill at character creation? The Enemy's Gate is Down
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.02.04 17:13:00 - [82] is not Iceland part of the EU? That would explain alot. I dont see why this game has to be fair and balanced. Who cares if someone finds the best method for thier choice of play. Tech 2 is way to slow and tech 1 is not even done. Whats the slow down. Why in the world would they have a game where everything that needs to be done has not been even started. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Koios	Posted - 2004.02.04 17:26:00 - [83] Thank you for that post Morkt. It states exactly what a lot of players feel including myself. The whole "lottery" thing with research agents giving out new bp just here and there is a farce. No calculable effort for a huge amount of work (get research skills, get npc standings, tons of missions). And still waiting for some results I can even more understand your anger about having a T2 bp and not being able to use it because the corresponding T1 is not available. That is ridicoulous and makes me sick. A lot of people made a lot of good comments in this thread. It's 5 minutes to twelve!
Killgorde	Posted - 2004.02.04 21:55:00 - [84] Edited by: Killgorde on 04/02/2004 21:55:38 Not sure whether dishonesty or incompetence are factors, but if there's one thing it's blatantly obvious is lacking bigtime within the dev department (and always has been if CCP are honest with themselves) it's Communication with a capital C. That's both between the community and the devs (CSM chats notwithstanding - a lot of head-scratching seems to go on in them about issues devs weren't aware of) and also inter-departmentally. How many times has a dev claimed ignorance about an issue the whole Eve universe and its grandmother appear to be aware of? Does the team have a daily meeting so that everyone is fully briefed by each other about all current "issues" and the steps being taken to resolve them? Or is it (as seems the case) that every dev has their own little turf and doesnt have a grasp (or an interest) in the bigger picture? Or in what it takes to give this game mass appeal. Does the Project Manager need to be more assertive and give his crew (and possibly himself if responsible for the issues stated by others visa via Tech I bp's in this thread) a good kick up the arse? I felt back in Beta this game had the potential to dwarf all other online games - I still believe that. The problem is that it won't grow and develop to the degree that some of us wish it to if: a) As stated elsewhere CCP treat its customers like idiots shelling out their subscription in the hope of a brighter future soon(tm). If you can't deliver it - don't promise it, guys. If you keep it running at a snails pace existing people become frustrated and leave with lack of progress on the content side (haven't you worked that one out yet?). Can anyone playing for more than 6 months think of less than 10 others who have fallen by the wayside due to lack of Soon(tm) pledges being fulfilled? b) The devs don't make at least a token effort to "sing from the same hymn sheet" (requiries the "C-word" mentioned above and firm management). I will say /salute to Papa Smurf, who appears to be the only team member who truly gives a damn about the minions that play this game - he responds with complete honesty and a lack of condescension apparant with others. If CCP had 10 more like him major marketshare would be a given. Killgorde CEO - Cutting Edge Incorporated "I thought I saw a light at the end of the tunnel but it turned out to be some bastard with a torch in one hand and a ****load more work for me in the other"
Aegis Osiris	Posted - 2004.02.04 23:39:00 - [85] These are all good points, and the concerns mentioned seem reasonable. There's just one point I'd like to add for consideration, just as a thought. Introducing new tech levels is supposed to be part of the game. At the same time, its going to be an upheaval, as the haves ride down on the have-nots with evil tech 2 gear This has already been mentioned, in a number of ways. But realize, there are 5 tech levels planned. Maybe part of the plan (was there a plan? I dunno! ) was to do a slow release of tech 2, see how it went, what general problems cropped up that might affect future releases, etc. Done this way, it might allow for smoother releases of tech 3-5. Just an idea. Does that mean that I think CCP has the situation clearly in hand? Heck, I don't know. Maybe they are nastily insidious, interested in the bottom line only. Maybe there are simply incompetent. For all I know, maybe they are having a problem with some of the Dev's hibernating (hell, its winter in Iceland, ain't it??). Anything's possible
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.05 00:03:00 - [86] I agree with the original poster, and many of the responses. I came back to this game after a two month layoff and started a second account because I thought things were turning around... I feel betrayed, and maybe a lot of you can see that with the rash of my recent rants... What really ticked me off is when I was agruging with 4 different GM's (in the same petition) and they said that my Research Agent asking for 40 homeless 50% of the time was normal. What? I called them out and they just kept defending that asinine bug, at least the DEV's have toned down the # of homeless asked for. But just the fact that the GM's would defend a bug that way is total crap... Ever since that day I've been fuming. It just appears that all of CCP is f'ing clueless about this game in some way or another, they certainly do not imbue confidence in their customers by fumbling around as often as they do, patch after patch... Again, CLUELESS! "Trust No One"
Gunship	Posted - 2004.02.05 01:10:00 - [87] X weeks 6K RPs and no blue print, come on... give a man a break CCP Petition!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.02.05 02:42:00 - [88] Quote: X weeks 6K RPs and no blue print, come on... give a man a break 1.7k RPs in a normal research field and Adaptive Nano Plating II bp. You don't want the break I had I only took the bp to: 1) Get it out of the way 2) Make myself feel better about switching research agents and losing all my RP anyways I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.05 03:06:00 - [89] Quote: I only took the bp to: 1) Get it out of the way This may actually be one source of major issue/contention. With so few BPs coming out, and a one-week period of each offer, it doesn't take much for a BP to "dissapear" into the system, down a massive chain of rejections or sitting moldering for a week at a time in an AFK or defunct account. Makes you wonder...
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.02.05 04:48:00 - [90] Quote: Quote: I only took the bp to: 1) Get it out of the way This may actually be one source of major issue/contention. With so few BPs coming out, and a one-week period of each offer, it doesn't take much for a BP to "dissapear" into the system, down a massive chain of rejections or sitting moldering for a week at a time in an AFK or defunct account. Makes you wonder... I'm certain there are bps lost in the system. And I'm willing to bet that bp has prolly been floating through the system since the 1st real t2 bp release I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Sybylle	Posted - 2004.02.05 08:22:00 - [91] I request a Sticky on this. I completely agree with Morkt Drak. We will probably never know why patches or releases are always delayed...At least we can imagine it. I think this is planned as we (players) are going faster than the dev's would have imagined. Since the release all major actions have made players life's harder, be it a liner or a fighter. More challenge is nice, this is not the problem. What disappoints me is more the "wait a lot to get little" that dev's are still increasing now, in order to slow us down. Getting BP is kinda hard, takes a long time, and having all tech 1 items is, IMO, strictly necessary to face all the NPCs that may deliver us some good items, BP or any recyclable stuff we will need to make the gap to Tech II. I cannot imagine what will happen with Tech III. I fear we will see within some months a topic named "Tech III farce continues without any regard to players" But it can be worse... 1st april 2006 CSM ...One week after the tech IV release. "When will we be able to get all tech 1 BPs? Right now I've faced 60 NPCs @35k, 15@60k, and I've found (after loosing all my teamates, that couldn't afford a clone due to recent prize increase...) a one run Tech 4 elite expander BP. I got the Tech 1 BP, I managed to get the Tech II after killing one of my mates (concord agent mission), but the Tech III is missing and hasn't been implemented it seems. When can we expect it to be avalaible" "(won't give names, but one dev) SoonÖ We will implement it with the next patch«" (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
Fuse	Posted - 2004.02.05 08:29:00 - [92] Quote: Thank you for that post Morkt. It states exactly what a lot of players feel including myself. The whole "lottery" thing with research agents giving out new bp just here and there is a farce. No calculable effort for a huge amount of work (get research skills, get npc standings, tons of missions). And still waiting for some results I can even more understand your anger about having a T2 bp and not being able to use it because the corresponding T1 is not available. That is ridicoulous and makes me sick. A lot of people made a lot of good comments in this thread. It's 5 minutes to twelve! This seems to be a MMORG norm over-promise and delay. I was really disappointed in the way CCP fell in line with the rest of the MMORG families. Dragging their feet to release tech 2 and using agents to release it. When EVE was released it showed promise there was reverse Engineering built in to the interface it is still there. The current focus of CCP seems to be to entice new players to join EVE not to take care of their existing player base. Heck it is cheaper to get more players in to the game then to press development all the time delaying and making excuses about the promises made about game play. Sure a few people will get fed up and drop out but heck ôwe have had over 6600 people logged on concurrentlyö keep up the good work. Now I am just doing what I did in Earth and Beyond I am hanging out with my online friends. I am not having fun at all. Sure my character may be super but the lack of content and the hoops they make you jump through to get at it is getting really old. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.02.05 09:48:00 - [93] i just dont get it... from wht i heard others say they will realease the tech1's that are missing through agents? what kind of crap is that? this pretty sad that ppl have some tech2 bp's but cant do much with them at all. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Chrimera	Posted - 2004.02.05 12:36:00 - [94] I have a tech 2 bp and also can't do much with it as I can't get a bp for the tech 1 item. So I have 4 choices: 1) Pay npc prices for the 2 or 3 units that are available, which will push my p[roduction costs up high, meaning the sale cost is too high so I can't sell any. 2) Sit and wait for the bp to appear, which makes a joke of the release as its not TECHNICALLY released. (Like pre-ordering a cd or video 6 months before it comes out, its purely a ticket stub) 3) Sell it to someone who has the same trouble as me and I lose the monopoly I could have in the future 4) Stick it up ccp's wincey and light it! All seem a waste of time. Well one sounds like a good idea but I have run out of matches HUBRIS TECHNOLOGIES, SHAPING THE FUTURE
McWatt	Posted - 2004.02.05 13:27:00 - [95] Quote: Edited by: Ukiah on 03/02/2004 16:29:22 Screw filling the gaps in tech I bp's. I WANT MORE UI tweaks/redesigns! I'm still not satisfied with the 'loading' animated icon. I want a third, configurable one. Also, can you devote some time to changing the status bars. I want mine to be red! /me sarcasm mode off seconded.
Alynthir	Posted - 2004.02.05 13:45:00 - [96] Edited by: Alynthir on 05/02/2004 13:46:59 Nearly 7k in Laser Physics with a L3 agent that has an effective quality of 38 and nothing. In fact, considering the absurd number of people in Tyrell with active research agents, the actual number of BPs we have gotten are pathetic. We're one of the largest corps in the game, and have worked very hard to concentrate our agents and research on specific areas and it doesn't seem to make a damn bit of difference. On top of this, as Morkt said, those T2 BPs that we do have are next to useless for mass production until the T1 BPs of certian items needed for 'upgrades' become available. Sticky, Sticky, Sticky. Wake up, CCP!! _____ CLS Civil Affairs Bureau "Permanent = Today's Plan." Training: Noob Instructor Level 5
McWatt	Posted - 2004.02.05 13:50:00 - [97] tech 2 rules, methinks.
Val Amon	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:01:00 - [98] AGREED!!!! It has been determined that all the homeless have corrupted our R&D agents by making them all chemical dependant. You give them Soil for guess what. Then you give them planetary vehicles so they may race while high on dope. Then they request Science Graduates due to fatalies in the lab YEAH RIGHT try racing while under the influence. _ _ How many pilots does it take to wire a Flux Capacitor? 3, 1 to wire it and 2 to talk about how the old one was better.
Relentless	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:04:00 - [99] Quote: Nearly 7k in Laser Physics with a L3 agent that has an effective quality of 38 and nothing. In fact, considering the absurd number of people in Tyrell with active research agents, the actual number of BPs we have gotten are pathetic. We're one of the largest corps in the game, and have worked very hard to concentrate our agents and research on specific areas and it doesn't seem to make a damn bit of difference. On top of this, as Morkt said, those T2 BPs that we do have are next to useless for mass production until the T1 BPs of certian items needed for 'upgrades' become available. Sticky, Sticky, Sticky. Wake up, CCP!! Are you still sending CCP money every month? Given that tech-2 is just the same tech-1 items with slightly different numbers, once CCP actually makes it available, people will play with it for a couple weeks, realize how meaningless it is and get bored again. However, by dragging this out for months, they may be ticking you off, but they're still holding on tight to your subscription. The anticipation is of far greater value to CCPs bottom line than the delivery. They're wide awake. Nothing is going to change.
Sybylle	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:11:00 - [100] I've to agree with Relentless... That's almost what I said, in more crude words I hope anyway I'm wrong... (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:30:00 - [101] You guys do know that some people are going to not get any Tech 2 no matter how high their RP's are right? Some corps aren't going to get any. If you are only playing the game because you hope to get Tech 2 you probably aren't going to be happy if you do get it. I'm mean you get tech 2 you sell tech 2 and now you have even more isk that sits in your wallet. I have a Research Agent and it would be nice if I got a Tech 2 BP but it won't really effect my game exp. just what I'm doing at any given time. Depending on Tech 2 to save your game exp is like depending on the lottery to pay your mortgage. It's not going to happen.
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:31:00 - [102] Yep. Thats the whole point of a lottery. Only very few people will ever get Tech II.
Atta	Posted - 2004.02.05 14:56:00 - [103] Im frankly amazed theres been no comments on this issue here from an eve representative. But the strongest point made so far is that the anticipation of techII is more vaulable than its actual introduction. I strongly beleive that a mass cancellation of accounts is gonna be the only way this stagnant mess is gonna change. ____________________________ Eagles may soar but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines - Brentism
McWatt	Posted - 2004.02.05 18:06:00 - [104] Quote: Sad fact is that 90% of tech 1 items, and thereforce tech 2 items, are utter crap and will never be used. The so called 'lottery' of tech 2 items is a utter and total joke, I mean what would u rather have, tech 2 dual 150mm railgun bp, or cargo expander 2 bp? this is the real problem. that they are not able to put the necessary tech bp on to the market is just highlighting this incompetence.
Glenmorangie	Posted - 2004.02.05 18:59:00 - [105] "Tech Level 2 (TL2) has been introduced, bringing exciting new manufacturing and research possibilities into the world of EVE." please help me i can't seem to find the bp's or these items on the market
Adliger Krieger	Posted - 2004.02.05 22:08:00 - [106] Quote: Come on CCP. Are you listening? Stop messing around and get on with it. Why are you making pathetic little changes to things that work fine (eg names of stations on the warp list) rather than launching tech 2? (This joke is not a launch.) You are far too obsessed with "balance". I for one don't care if lasers are better than projectiles or vice versa. In real life things aren't balanced. They change from favouring one thing to another. Players will balance themselves. Good players on the ball will always have better ships - fine. Just get on with it! That is the best friggin post I've seen all day! Yes, TomB is CONSUMED with PERFECT balance. Get over it already! Stop nerfing and start releasing Tech2!
Parallax Error	Posted - 2004.02.05 22:43:00 - [107] I'm oh so tempted to put this in block capitals but I shall resist. If tech 1 is, as has been mentioned many a time, the absolute base level of all items... the level that everyone always has access to and is the level that newer players can come straight in and start manufacturing and using.... THEN EVERY SINGLE BLUEPRINT FOR TECH LEVEL 1 WITHOUT EXCEPTION MUST BE ON THE MARKET FOR EVERYONE TO PURCHASE... FULL STOP! Sorry for that.... but I really feel that that fact has to be driven home. I am certainly not happy with tech level 1 stuff being handed out be lottery and through agent missions. tech level 2 going out through agents at a faster rate than it currently is I can deal with simply to allow the player manufacturing market to become a much expanded and interesting feature as soon as possible. Whilst i'm having a moan I might as well point out, that for a successful market for player create wares, the players must be capable of manufacturing the best available equipment. please lets notlapse back into the same ludicrous situation we had with Tech level 1 whereby the best items we had access to were pirate dropped loot. It makes a mockery of a 'crafting' system. by all means let NPC's drop the same standard of equipment but don't let them start dropping meta tech level 2 items without players being able to make them as well.
RussianBazilisk	Posted - 2004.02.06 02:16:00 - [108] Edited by: RussianBazilisk on 06/02/2004 02:34:30 I dont post alot but this topic bothering me alot. Im keeping playing EVE cuz im waiting for some game like WoW come out. If CCP gets TL2 REALLY out then i might stick around for awhile and if its good i'll keep playing. Also I guess this post is still not sticky? Well if its not getting sticky then CCP dont want ppl to see it cuz its true. And if Dev or someone like it is not gona post reply here then u know like it says "Quet means agree". Forgat to add as i look at this forum alot i noticed that CCP ppl dont respond to posts that point out their mistakes at all so im not even hoping for a respond or sticky.
Kristina Nikolaev	Posted - 2004.02.06 02:41:00 - [109] Quote: Im frankly amazed theres been no comments on this issue here from an eve representative. I would be more than happy to help, but I honestly cannot answer your question. I'll direct this thread to a Polaris representative who can help you better. -Kristina _______________________________________________ Forum Rules\|EVE Player's Guide\|FAQs\|Download EVE now!!
Gurthang	Posted - 2004.02.06 04:27:00 - [110] everyone who reupped at the beginning of jan will run out pretty soon...so i imagine we should see some tech2 frigs this weekend :)
Skelator	Posted - 2004.02.06 05:09:00 - [111] Morkt, If you so unhappy why not just try something else until you find something that satisfies you? Just a Freindly suggestion They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Hippey	Posted - 2004.02.06 05:28:00 - [112] The sad thing is, no dev will ever read this. Then the issue will be brought up in the following few CSM's and the response will be "This is the first time I've heard of this" Gets SO tiring after a while :( ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die! Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill!
Kristina Nikolaev	Posted - 2004.02.06 05:31:00 - [113] Quote: The sad thing is, no dev will ever read this. Then the issue will be brought up in the following few CSM's and the response will be "This is the first time I've heard of this" Gets SO tiring after a while :( I'm sorry for your frustration I tried to contact someone who can shed some light onto this situation, however due to the current time its either very late or very early in the night/morning. If I see someone on later tomorrow, I'll promise to have this looked at for you. _______________________________________________ Forum Rules\|EVE Player's Guide\|FAQs\|Download EVE now!!
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2004.02.06 08:51:00 - [114] Just quit this dying game before you realize how many hours you wasted when you could have been playing other games that are worthwhile. The verdict is in: the EVE developers bit off more than they could chew; way more. I for one am enjoying Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II. Play it cooperatively. It's challenging and enjoyable, which I'm sure would be a welcome change for many an EVE player. Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Pasiphae	Posted - 2004.02.06 11:47:00 - [115] Morkt raised a very valid point. Lets keep this thread on topic. I'm interested to see what sort of reply we get from official sources.
Gzek	Posted - 2004.02.06 13:16:00 - [116] Quote: I'm sorry for your frustration I tried to contact someone who can shed some light onto this situation, however due to the current time its either very late or very early in the night/morning. If I see someone on later tomorrow, I'll promise to have this looked at for you. Uhm the original post was made 3 days ago =/
Adliger Krieger	Posted - 2004.02.06 13:42:00 - [117] Quote: Quote: I'm sorry for your frustration I tried to contact someone who can shed some light onto this situation, however due to the current time its either very late or very early in the night/morning. If I see someone on later tomorrow, I'll promise to have this looked at for you. Uhm the original post was made 3 days ago =/ Give her some credit dude. She is looking into it so chill out. A little THANKS is in order.
Adliger Krieger	Posted - 2004.02.06 15:34:00 - [118] Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 06/02/2004 15:35:52 Quote: Quote: Not really: You miss the obvious point: They release tech 2 blueprints BEFORE their Tech 1 counterparts were available. The manner or speed of release is irrelevant - the order is another matter. Or do you think we should be getting tech 4 before tech 3? Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but I'm not missing the point. How difficult do you think it is to put a BP on the market? or to add a component to the system that's equivalent to an existing one, just with slightly different numbers? What's happening isn't a mistake, they're doing it on purpose. The tech-1 bps are one aspect of the tech-2 release, since the tech-1 components are necessary to the manufacturing process. And they are intended to be there, as much has been said. Yet they, along with every other part of tech-2 is trickling in a snails pace. It'll be months yet before tech-2 is actually 'here.' You're approaching this from the perspective that CCP made a mistake. Instead take the perspective of leverage and motivation. You have recently acquired a tech-2 bp, so it's pretty unlikely that you'll be going anywhere. You have no leverage. It's in CCPs interest to drag this out as long as possible; the longer they can dangle the carrot of tech-2, the longer they have before they have to deliver something that's actually new. The missing tech-1 bps are easy enough to withhold to slow things down without any real consequence to CCPs bottom line. Watch how the next weeks and months unfold, and how quickly your BPs actually appear on the market. (compared to the few minutes effort it will actually take) Adopt a bit of healthy cynicism, and everything will probably make a good deal more sense. Of course you are right. What is shocking is that everyone does not realize this! CCP's core motivation is long term subscriptions. We have proven that we will sit around, being mislead to, and forgiving broken promises over and over and over. Why should they speed up the process? They are raking in the cash while making us wait. Does anyone really beleive they are in any kind of hurry to get to the last Tech level any time soon. Then what? Hell no, they are looking at this long term. I would be suprised if we see Shiva before the end of the year. The only factor that could possibly speed up it's arrival would be high player attrition rate. That said Eve is the best game in the history of gaming and I will never quit.
Zagum Darkfin	Posted - 2004.02.06 17:33:00 - [119] Lets beat a dead horse. WHERE ARE THE REST OF THE TECH2 BPOS???? ITS FEB NOW!! HELLO CCP!!
Wilber	Posted - 2004.02.06 21:40:00 - [120] Quote: everyone who reupped at the beginning of jan will run out pretty soon...so i imagine we should see some tech2 frigs this weekend :) maybe....now interceptor skills on the market its not like they can say the guy in charge of that is on vacation. They have obviously been seeding the market with new items....yet where is the **** we have been asking for for 2 months?
Leekar	Posted - 2004.02.07 09:28:00 - [121] Take your time to read this thread CCP. A lot of good things here.
Mau dib	Posted - 2004.02.07 10:07:00 - [122] Quote: Take your time to read this thread CCP. A lot of good things here. Why don't you summarize it for them in the next post. That way they can get back to working on the issue faster.
Pasiphae	Posted - 2004.02.07 12:43:00 - [123] Quote: Lets beat a dead horse. WHERE ARE THE REST OF THE TECH2 BPOS???? ITS FEB NOW!! HELLO CCP!! The main issue Morkt was raising concerns missing Tech 1 blueprints to produce ingame Tech 2 items! I think we've realised that T2 will be released slowly...
Unicode	Posted - 2004.02.07 13:29:00 - [124] still no official response? Quote of the Week: "Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds." Franklin D. Roosevelt
Anything	Posted - 2004.02.07 16:17:00 - [125] Yes, this is most definately a thread worth keeping in view. Also, we have elite frigate BP's, the tech 2 components and the minerals so... where is the frigate construction skill? And don't say "you get it at character creation", that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.07 16:26:00 - [126] And to add to the farce: Tech 2 Interceptors now out! (But no skill on market to build them) Tech 2 Signal Amplifiers now out (But no T1 item BP) Tech 2 Signal Amplifiers now out! (But copy times are all wrong and you can make copies far far far faster than actual items - HUGE error/bug, same for other T2s) Tech2 Signal Amplifier now out! (But it doesnt do what it says it does - no +1 targets because... its bugged!) Yeah! And lets round off with no T1 BPs for any of the backup arrays and the SAME copy-time errors oh and how much longer does this farce run without ANY even slight attempt by CCP to COMMUNICATE they are evens till alive to their customers? I wonder.
Murple	Posted - 2004.02.07 16:41:00 - [127] This is a huge and very serious problem that needs immediate and swift action. Did someone petition this or go through other channels to contact someone about this? We can't let this sit and fester anymore. Gotta love my city-sized roid vacuum cleaner!
Tenashi	Posted - 2004.02.07 17:15:00 - [128] it`s stalling Everlasting Vendetta - Search
Skaz	Posted - 2004.02.07 17:30:00 - [129] Edited by: Skaz on 07/02/2004 17:32:29 Thing is that after seeing how fast gamers got stuff after release, causing CCP troubles beyond measure, they decided to introduce Tech II after their schedule, which unfortunately seems to be changing constantly and very slowly progressing forward, and is way to slow for players. CCP just has to adjust this, I think they've made a irreversible commitment with the agent system and T2 can't be easily introduced through a single channel like that. Reverse engineering and such won't come out until Shiva (T3) or Kali (T4) so for now agents are the only method of getting T2 prints. A real bottleneck that frustrates players beyond measure. It's simply too damn slow. Miscommunication or lack of communication seem to be rampant at CCP, as Morkt plainly pointed out someone was responsible for making those T1 prints available, and either that person didn't know or fumbled the ball. I love EVE and CCP, but really you guys need to listen to us players too, I know you do that often, but seriously, we've been crying about those missing prints for ages now. "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
Pacala	Posted - 2004.02.07 18:00:00 - [130] Edited by: Pacala on 07/02/2004 18:05:47 It could just be the fact that CCP is a very small company. These guys have what... 20-25 people? For Christ's sake they're in the business of selling a game and they didn't have a marketing department until now! I say the reason why we're outpacing the devs is that there are only so many people working on code for this game that they simply don't have the manpower to do proper design. They probably don't have the experience either. CCP came out of nowhere. A small company, unknown, with a limited pool of available local talent. These guys have never worked on a project this size before. They're in Iceland, and in order to hire experienced people in the field they'd have to pay them a premium to get them to Reykjavik. So they have no experience and they can't afford anyone that does, and we get shafted for having taken a chance on a small unknown company with an idea that could have been great.
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.07 18:13:00 - [131] "I say the reason why we're outpacing the devs is that there are only so many people working on code for this game that they simply don't have the manpower to do proper design. They probably don't have the experience either." That is their fault, not ours... No excuses... "Trust No One"
Relentless	Posted - 2004.02.07 18:26:00 - [132] Quote: It could just be the fact that CCP is a very small company. These guys have what... 20-25 people? For Christ's sake they're in the business of selling a game and they didn't have a marketing department until now! I say the reason why we're outpacing the devs is that there are only so many people working on code for this game that they simply don't have the manpower to do proper design. They probably don't have the experience either. That's the reason why patches are usually late and buggy. And that's something I have no issue with, it's just a reality of software development. This is different. The pace at which tech-2 is being released, and tech-1 bps have been put on the market, has nothing to do with how difficult the programming is. It's entirely within CCPs ability to add any number of existing tech-1 bps to the market with minimal effort. They are choosing not to. To grant them the benefit of doubt, it is possible that they are unsatisfied with balancing issues, and have been occupied making some adjustments. But my faith in CCPs integrity has gone pretty much to zero in the last few months. It's appearing more as though they're dragging out the release of tech-2 items as a way of tricking those players who resubscribed in order to evaluate the hype into extending their subscriptions another few months. The tech-2 'release' looks like an effectively executed bait and switch.
Gan Howorth	Posted - 2004.02.07 19:04:00 - [133] /devil's advocate hat on CCP's idea with tech2 is that corps would provide components and services to others up the chain in the manufacturing of Tech2. If a tech1 BP is one of those links in the chain then surely it makes sense to make it more specialised and create more texture in the supply demand model than to allow a corp to simply buy everything off the peg. Its not CCP's fault that people keep turning down unavailable tech1 BPs in the hope they will get a smurgleblaster BP. /takes hat off Just a counterpoint view. Not necessarily one l hold.
Booky	Posted - 2004.02.07 19:11:00 - [134] I have a lot of BP's from my agent, hell I even think signal amplifier is one of them. Gee maybe I should log on more than once a day to check training and agents, but unfortunetly I got RL to tend with Look at the brite side, I fly several times a week for real, so it isn't all bad Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post.
Ris Dnalor	Posted - 2004.02.08 02:23:00 - [135] we're dealing with people that may be great programmers, but don't have the first clue how to communicate with their customer base. they're disorganized, & release timeframes for things to happen that they simply cannot deliver. It's not the waiting that is the problem, it's the broken promises. CCP should be thankful they have no specific genre competition. tralala -- Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
Skaz	Posted - 2004.02.08 03:08:00 - [136] Edited by: Skaz on 08/02/2004 03:10:57 Edited by: Skaz on 08/02/2004 03:09:48 Quote: we're dealing with people that may be great programmers, but don't have the first clue how to communicate with their customer base. they're disorganized, & release timeframes for things to happen that they simply cannot deliver. It's not the waiting that is the problem, it's the broken promises. CCP should be thankful they have no specific genre competition. tralala Ok this is long and maybe not all that clear (I'm half asleep) but its an idea: ah yes, if they had competition, perhaps that would be good? Make them get their act together? Nawww..... No but you're right about that they may be kick ass programmers, at least talented. They lack the communication skills? experience? or will? too few employees? I'm not entirely sure where to put my finger on it, whether it's a negligence issue or simply inability of some sort... I guess only CCP knows. My guess though would be the lack of an correct outlet, ok currently we have Devs and Pann as our information brokers, occasionally GMs and even Polaris offer some bit of info. All good, but it's too fragmented, we get contradicting information, release dates, state of affairs and such, suggesting that there's a lack of internal communication at CCP. They need someone to coordinate the release of information, someone who's job would be to answer the public, to be a intermediate between the players and the Devs. I know people will be saying "Pann, she's the community manager" but I'm under the impression that that sweet lady is swamped by other duties as well. So I'm saying in short that they should hire additional ppl to coordinate and answer some (they'd never be able to handle ALL questions) questions on the forums, some sort of representatives of CCP that would atleast be able to please the masses answering simple questions. I'm not thinking of those dudes as replacements but rather as supplementary to current state of affairs (Devs appearing the boards). It would be a way to clarify information that the community is not sure about. "No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..."
McWatt	Posted - 2004.02.08 10:13:00 - [137] Edited by: McWatt on 08/02/2004 10:13:56 Quote: Edited by: Pacala on 07/02/2004 18:05:47 It could just be the fact that CCP is a very small company. These guys have what... 20-25 people? For Christ's sake they're in the business of selling a game and they didn't have a marketing department until now! the problem is a lack of concentration: real exploits (dublication..) >> big bugs (fleet combat...) >> content (POS...) >> small bugs >> nice extras (events) >> useless stuff (UI/log in graphics..) >> weird stuff (planet landing...) fast solutions >> long term projects communication rules (no "soon", please)
semp	Posted - 2004.02.08 12:11:00 - [138] Still no official responce? Also i've not seen the list for a while of the missing bp's but are the basic shuttle bp's on the list? We can build battleships but not shuttle's ? Semp

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