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Myrm outtanking and outdamaging a drake? Oo

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Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:28:00 - [1] I quickly threw a fitting together for a drake and a myrm, to compare the two, and the myrm beats the drake in every imaginable way. if someone finds my error, please tell :p fittings with assumed skills all level 5: drake: -hi: - 7 HML II med: -2 LSE II -EM hardener II -Heat Hardener II -EM Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II low: -2 BCS II -2 SPR II Rigs: -Missile Damage I -2 Shield Recharge II -> 374 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 481 DPS Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II med: -2 LSE II -EM Hardener II -Heat Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II lo: -5 SPR II -Magstab II Rigs: - 3 Shield Purger II -> 614 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 767 DPS and mind you, this is only for mission running, i know this wouldnt be very viable for pvp ;)
Sidephex New Dawn Rising	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:30:00 - [2] as if outdamaging a drake is that hard to achieve
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:32:00 - [3] And youre forgetting to mention that drake is rangeindependant, myrmid very range dependant. Both setups are in general somewhat poor imho. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 10:39:41 Are railguns not better then blasters for missions? Dont you need AB with blasters or do you just let ships come to you? edit "EM Hardener II -Heat Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II" Dont most rats only do two damage types? If you want muti damage why not use 3 invul fields? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez ...cut... Your myrm setup is just a bait.. in real eve the DPS is 0. U cannot go in blaster range and 5 ogres die fast... The drake have not that exceptional DPS but how much time will take to kill those ogres? It's true that myrm can get a monster passive tank, but can work just as bait or missions tanker .. On the other side a passive drake is much more usable. Not exceptional DPS but range indipendant and is still dammage. --------------------------- Alternative idea to NOS
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:48:00 - [6] Keep in mind that a competent drake pilot can three-volley your heavy drones if you don't pay proper attention.. And it's easy to say 'retract them' but you lose alot of DPS that way.
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:58:00 - [7] as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:01:00 - [8] ôIt's true that myrm can get a monster passive tank, but can work just as bait or missions tanker.ö ThatÆs rubbish it can tank and fit EW. I warp scram someone just last week in it. Passive shield tanking guide click here
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p Of course invulns are not a very good idea for missions, but in the same manner 4 different harderners are even worse - even for counting and comparisson. But the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remains. And that ogre's die like flies in missions - especially as you have to have them out at exreme ranges on that setup. Now if you want to compare the drake with anything do so with the cane or binger. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
DARTHxFREE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:04:00 - [10] Ur drake set up sucks, 4x single hardners... thiers no point trying for such resistance's, invuls do it better and free up space for better mod's >:-E3 /join Cheeze & Whine Club Blaster Kamikaze, If your not prepeared to give it all up, stop saying your not a care bear
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:10:00 - [11] ôBut the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remainsö The myrm can also choose it damage type with no travel time for weapons. ThatÆs not advantage for the Drake. Passive shield tanking guide click here
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Pottsey ôBut the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remainsö The myrm can also choose it damage type with no travel time for weapons. ThatÆs not advantage for the Drake. The drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does. The drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling. Yes, the myrm can choose its damage type on 450 of its dps, however loosing up to 20% of its damage while doing so. And the 160 dps from the rails can never alter its damage types. Yes, these are advantages to the drake. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez drake: -hi: - 7 HML II Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that?
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:30:00 - [14] erm somehow all fittings in this thread are weird :p fit rat specific hardeners, not an omnitank for missions, use 3 lse 2, don't use weapon damage mods on a myrmi. if you go full tank then the drake outtanks a myrmi, if you fit one bcu myrmi will be better as omnitank, drake should still field a marginally better tank if fitted for 1 resistance. your myrmi has cap issues.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. Oh, and recent studies indicate that they are actually doing this unintentionally, if you spot one try to forgive it. Oh, and some of them are in their teens showing aggression as their I-win button they presumed they had actually got minor flaws and scratches(You know, if 100'000 players use it, that might happen?). Some overcome it, some give up and go back to more cookie cutter friendly games. Odds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion. oh, and dps is of course calculated with high damage low range ammo. Drake does not really field a viable short range alternative as of today, as HAM's are somewhat midranged. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Shiken Kan erm somehow all fittings in this thread are weird :p fit rat specific hardeners, not an omnitank for missions, use 3 lse 2, don't use weapon damage mods on a myrmi. if you go full tank then the drake outtanks a myrmi, if you fit one bcu myrmi will be better as omnitank, drake should still field a marginally better tank if fitted for 1 resistance. your myrmi has cap issues. Invuls are just placeholders as tanks need to be changed around depending on mission. I would like to see the drake you speak of that outtanks the myrmid however. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:07:00 - [17] oh forget to post my myrm :p 1x drone link augmentor 1x large faction smartbomb (it's cheap enough) 4x 150mm rail 2 (iridium ammo) 3x lse 2 2x rat specific res. amplifiers 6x spr 2 1x sentry damage augmentor 2x shield purger rigs 5x sentries (not necessarily garde due to range) tanks around 600 if fitted for omni.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Caldrinara Yez drake: -hi: - 7 HML II Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;)
CptEagle Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:26:00 - [19] Also, I'm pretty sure that uber shieldtank/gank setup of yours will run out of cap rather fast. Shooting missiles has obviously made you're brain numb.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:38:00 - [20] ôOdds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion.ö Do you know who I am? The only thing more odd then thinking I have never flown a passive tanked myrmidon is thinking I have never flown a passive tank Domi. Only last week there was a thread where I offered to dual people on the test server with my passive tank myrmidon. People took me up on that offer and I still offer it. ôThe drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does.ö The Drake has to wait longer. Press engage seconds later you hit and damage the new target with turrets and/or drones on the myrm. The Drake on the other hand has to wait for missiles to travel. ôThe drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling.ö Not all drones need to travel to hit there target. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:43:00 - [21] protip: to counter a myrm shoot the 5 heavy drones the moron is using. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Acoco Osiris Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:24:00 - [22] A few problems First: A Myrmidon mission-runner will be using medium/light drones, not heavies. Second: Missions tend to be done at long-range. It would take forever for a Myrmi to slowboat into NOS and blaster range, especially without an afterburner, and some enemies would be uncatchable at blaster range. Third: Passive shield Myrmis use arty/autocannons for 0 cap use. Common tactic (and I think I might just ape it). Fourth: You'd use specific resists, not an omni tank for missions, since you already know what's coming and can adjust resists accordingly. Fifth: You forgot both ships' drone bays. The Myrmidon's primary weapon is its drones, and the Drake has some lights to mop the floor with frigates and serve as a little extra DPS on larger ships. Sixth: Once you use specific resists on a Drake, you can get a lot more shields with either more LSE IIs or resists. Seventh: You were comparing a long-range weapon (heavy missiles) with the shortest-range, highest-damage weapon out there (blasters). Eigth: Yes, the Myrmidon really is a bit overpowered. In all, though, you made several mistakes with fitting and comparison, which made the Myrmidon seem better for missions than it really is. Both the Drake and Myrmidon are very good mission boats. Plus, you've forgotten the 25% resists from the Drake ship bonus. That increases the tank by 1/3 (since regen/second is inverse to resists). In all, I think the Drake can put up a more solid tank, but the Myrmi can probably out-damage it, and an armor-tanked Myrmi is much more versatile since it can fit AB and Ewar gear. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Neena Valdi Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;) Ever since we started talking about BC missile weaponry? Maybe you're thinking of HAM's? So now following your advice, we have Garde's and Blasters on your supertank Myrm, and you can no longer hit targets at 50km. If you want to get those ~50km Guristas, maybe you'll bring some Wardens. Base tracking 0.01, so you'll now have trouble hitting cruisers at 15km. So maybe it's 4 Sentries, 5 lights, long range ammo for blasters? Not only are we no longer in super dps mode, to be effective we need either tracking, stasis or propulsion mods so we're no longer in supertank mode either. Personally I wouldn't use sentries with the Myrmidon, nor would I use them without an omnidirectional. They work great in my Domi though, since I have room for several types of sentry, as well as mediums and lights.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:37:00 - [24] What **** would shield tank a mrymidon? Any ship with 5 mids can do that too op. ----------------- Friends Forever** Kill. BoB. Dead.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p Mission running with only heavies? You asking to die? ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:40:00 - [26] Dang people they are called sentry drones, love em use em never turn back
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:40:00 - [27] Originally by: CptEagle Also, I'm pretty sure that uber shieldtank/gank setup of yours will run out of cap rather fast. Shooting missiles has obviously made you're brain numb. i'll say it again, this is for missions, and works out with all skills at 5, since its only theoretical
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert Nexus Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:55:00 - [28] on my passive tank myr that i use for lvl 4s i use 4 heavy and 5 lights and on my drake i use 7 arb launchers and 5 t2 hobs... they are both rigged out with 3 purgers and hards for the rats in the mission and i still prefer my myr cause shooting 500 heavy missiles on a bs in a lvl 4 gets old and costly the myr seams to tank better and kill the bses a bit faster
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:08:00 - [29] ôOdds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion.ö Do you know who I am? The only thing more odd then thinking I have never flown a passive tanked myrmidon is thinking I have never flown a passive tank Domi. Only last week there was a thread where I offered to dual people on the test server with my passive tank myrmidon. People took me up on that offer and I still offer it. I'm sorry, but I really can't see how your experiences on pvping in whatever the ship maybe has anything at all to do with TQ. It's an entirely different game, missions would be somewhat similiar, but you are in fact comparing it to pvp. No, I'm afraid I just can't see this proving very much. And fine, you may very well be a experienced pilot in the art, I have no clue, but I can admit I find it suprising. ôThe drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does.ö The Drake has to wait longer. Press engage seconds later you hit and damage the new target with turrets and/or drones on the myrm. The Drake on the other hand has to wait for missiles to travel. Yes, but it does not matter when it hits. It's just a delay, during which you can continue dealing damage. The myrmid will not. Ogre II's travel at less than 1050 m/s, how fast are missiles again? And once again, missiles - constant dps, drones - not constant. ôThe drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling.ö Not all drones need to travel to hit there target. This is true, but if you are to keep comparing the dps, you would be comparing it with Garde II, which means anything outside of the optimal of your sentries and rails(which by now should be approaching the same values), will be at a very very decreased dps - due to either range or tracking. Does missiles suffer from this? No. Sentry drones are great as a complement, and you can even use them as an allround tool with some management, however they will still be at loss compared to missiles on a whole - thanks to the versatility. Then again, I presume you have tried running this shieldtanked blasterfitted sentry boat in missions and compared it to the drake, right? Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 13:46:06 Originally by: Neena Valdi Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;) Ever since we started talking about BC missile weaponry? Maybe you're thinking of HAM's, though I hear they are more of a midrange weapon? Never used them myself. So now following your advice, we have Garde's and Blasters on your supertank Myrm, and you can no longer hit targets at 50km. If you want to get those ~50km Guristas, maybe you'll bring some Wardens. Base tracking 0.01, so you'll now have trouble hitting cruisers at 15km. So maybe it's 4 Sentries, 5 lights, long range ammo for blasters? Not only are we no longer in super dps mode, to be effective we need either tracking, stasis or propulsion mods so we're no longer in supertank mode either. Personally I wouldn't use sentries with the Myrmidon, nor would I use them without an omnidirectional. They work great in my Domi though, since I have room for several types of sentry, as well as mediums and lights. Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters.

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