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Myrm outtanking and outdamaging a drake? Oo

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DJ P	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:03:00 - [31] Since we are talking about PVE both the fittings are flawed. a) The Drake fitting because you need 2 hardeners only or 2 inv fields. So 4 LES T2, 1 BSU T2, 1 PDU T2, 2 SPR T2. Rigs : 2 extenders, 1 recharger. (For the rest). b) The Myrm to fly it like that you need 10mn AB t2. Or else it will never hit onces. And that needs cap. With 5 T2 SPR online, the cap will drain in seconds if you turn on the AB and the blasters. On paper might work but not in reality.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Pottsey ôYes, but it does not matter when it hits.ö Yes it does matter this is what happens in my gang. New wave comes in. I target and shoot and kill. Swap kill, swap kill. Missile still travailing to first target. I have in the past killed 4 or 5 frigs before the first missile even hit. To avoid this we use tags and chat about whoÆs going hit what target. Our general rule is I hit small ships far away, when they get close its his job. Oh, yes, when in a gang, it's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile. Originally by: DJ P Since we are talking about PVE both the fittings are flawed. a) The Drake fitting because you need 2 hardeners only or 2 inv fields. So 4 LES T2, 1 BSU T2, 1 PDU T2, 2 SPR T2. Rigs : 2 extenders, 1 recharger. (For the rest). b) The Myrm to fly it like that you need 10mn AB t2. Or else it will never hit onces. And that needs cap. With 5 T2 SPR online, the cap will drain in seconds if you turn on the AB and the blasters. On paper might work but not in reality. Funny, that drake setup seems to deal less damage and tank worse than the ones mentioned? And as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank, as you say. However its rare to need more than 60km range. The rails will handle shorter ranges quite effectivly - except for extreme examples such as Spider Drone II's, which will be an issue however even Ogre II's take them down eventually. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:23:00 - [33] Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Neena Valdi Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters. Hint: Read the OP, stick to topic please.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Neena Valdi Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility. you can forget the cruiser sized sig on passive shield tankers, it's more like cap sized sig :p oh and sentries are great for missions, you just have to fit the frig defense to your his, that's why i use small rails and a smartie :p
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:16:00 - [36] so how would you fit a shieldtanked t1 myrm for most dps/tanking in missions? esp what guns(do med rails still hit close up, say at 8k range?)/drones? sadly i can't use much of the expensive or advanced stuff, except for t2 extenders :/ so i hope some of you can come up with t1 fittings that do good damage but still kill those nasty elite frigs swiftly.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:18:00 - [37] I'd say artilleries or AC's rather than blasters. Or heck, even pulses. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 16:31:53 ôit's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile.ö If I am killing 4 ships before the missiles hit and moving onto my 5th target with turrets and drones in group missions then logically the same would happen solo. With turrets you kill faster and move onto your next target. By the time the missiles hit and start heading towards there next target your already on the targets after that with turrets and sentry drones. With missiles youÆre also going make a mistakes at some point and shoot to many or not enough missiles wasting time as you swap back to your target or wasting ammo. I also find turrets do more DPS. At least at range. Missiles win at short range. (railguns) When solo blasters can work. You aggro everything and let it come to you. Then bring your drones out. I stoped that once waves where added to missions though. ôAnd as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank,ö Why? Just fit 1 or 2 PDS and cap will not be a problem. ôPottsey may do it on a Domi/Myrm (?), but I'd have a hard time accepting the wasted rig slot.ö Just to be clear, I have done it and fitted the rigs but itÆs untested. The Domi hasnÆt seen combat yet with the rigs fitted so it might not work. Not using my Myrm right now decided to swap to a sentry drone rigged Domi. EDIT: Testing Sent rig setup now Domi though. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Shiken Kan Originally by: Neena Valdi Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility. you can forget the cruiser sized sig on passive shield tankers, it's more like cap sized sig :p True, but the signature is still much smaller than the sig of passive tanked myrm / drake. Turn on AB and orbit your sentries.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 16:09:36 Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 16:09:09 Originally by: Neena Valdi Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters. Hint: Read the OP and stick to topic or clearly specify where you divert from it. Perhaps I didn't divert anything from? Saying 'HML's are long range weapon while blasters are short range is same as saying drones are long range weapon while the smartbombs are short range weapon. Both statements are rather stupid and doesn't make much sense.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:32:00 - [41] I would like to point out that, missles also take time to hit the target just like drones take time to get there, altho our missles are a tad faster Also, if you switch the 5 orge 2s to a different damage type, you will lose dps. So does the drake if he switches from kinetic. I hate how people ignore this fact (it IS a 25% dps loss if you have bc 5...) Drake > Mym tho. Missles are cooler than drones hands down. F1-F7-take a nap
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:44:00 - [42] "I would like to point out that, missles also take time to hit the target just like drones take time to get there, altho our missles are a tad faster" Only some drones. sentry drones dont take time. Passive shield tanking guide click here
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:46:00 - [43] Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:46:48
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez so how would you fit a shieldtanked t1 myrm for most dps/tanking in missions? esp what guns(do med rails still hit close up, say at 8k range?)/drones? sadly i can't use much of the expensive or advanced stuff, except for t2 extenders :/ so i hope some of you can come up with t1 fittings that do good damage but still kill those nasty elite frigs swiftly. for fast and small targets you'll be better off fitting small rails, they can hit everything from 6 to 20km depending on skills. the damage you'd loose isn't that dramatic as myrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways. for a fit: hi 1x large smartbomb (faction if possible, they're cheap) 4x 150mm rail (named) 1x drone link augmentor mid 3x lse(t2 or best named) 2x rat specific passive hardener low 6x spr(t2 or best named) use heavies or sentries, depending on what you prefer. fit rigs accordingly (i.e. 3 purger when you like heavies or 2 purger and 1 sentry damage if you use sentries) cap isn't an issue as long as you don't run your smartie all the time.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:22:00 - [45] ômyrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways.ö ThatÆs not true just fit more PDS and you can fire everything. I have 425mm railguns on my Hyper and 6 turrets on my Domi no cap problems. Same for myrm I used to use turrets no problem. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 17:46:26 Originally by: Neena Valdi Perhaps I didn't divert anything from? Saying 'HML's are long range weapon while blasters are short range is same as saying drones are long range weapon while the smartbombs are short range weapon. Both statements are rather stupid and doesn't make much sense. But you did divert. OP clearly states max damage setup with blasters, and the numbers point to Ogres. You want to switch not only to sentries (seldom good on solo Myrm, imho) but also to another gun class, only this you don't mention. That's diverting, and also leaving essential information out. Save for sentries, drones are different from guns & missiles. However, each gun and missile class has separate short and long range variants, what is so stupid about stating this obvious fact? HML's & HAM's. Blasters & Rails.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:47:00 - [47] Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties.
Queen Hopy Your Friendly Booster Company	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:48:00 - [48] Try using some extender rigs instead of going all purger. Why? The more shields u have to start with the better the extender rig is. And the purger rigs got a natural build in stacking nerf.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:04:00 - [49] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 18:06:25 Originally by: Neena Valdi Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties. That has no bearing in the discusssion between you and I in this thread. Not that I have ever contested the quoted statement, for that matter.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Queen Hopy Try using some extender rigs instead of going all purger. Why? The more shields u have to start with the better the extender rig is. And the purger rigs got a natural build in stacking nerf. The shield recharge rigs are more effective. Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 341 hp/s With Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 313 hp/s
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Pottsey ômyrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways.ö ThatÆs not true just fit more PDS and you can fire everything. I have 425mm railguns on my Hyper and 6 turrets on my Domi no cap problems. Same for myrm I used to use turrets no problem. for lvl 4 i'd rather not exchange even a single spr for a pds. might get difficulties in tanking else. besides damage by drones is enough, cannons are just an addon imho.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:33:00 - [52] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 16:31:53 ôit's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile.ö If I am killing 4 ships before the missiles hit and moving onto my 5th target with turrets and drones in group missions then logically the same would happen solo. With turrets you kill faster and move onto your next target. By the time the missiles hit and start heading towards there next target your already on the targets after that with turrets and sentry drones. With missiles youÆre also going make a mistakes at some point and shoot to many or not enough missiles wasting time as you swap back to your target or wasting ammo. I also find turrets do more DPS. At least at range. Missiles win at short range. (railguns) When solo blasters can work. You aggro everything and let it come to you. Then bring your drones out. I stoped that once waves where added to missions though. Generally - you're quite right. Turrets deal more damage and are more viable than missiles as they hit instantly. When doing missions - in this scenario - missiles is likely to be better than the rails at just about every range, short of a narrow marginal around optimal. This is of course offset by the drones. However in the comparisson drones + rails vs missiles, the drones + rails need a higher maximal dps due to reasons stated above. How would you kill 4 targets before the missiles hit if they are the only offense around?(Short of 5 light drones of course). Yes, you're going to waste time, but that is a minor issue compared to the drones, basicly you'd do the same mistakes by trying to send drones off before they popped the target - just to avoid the initial drone-flying-where-ever-they-want-aggroing-the-rest-of-the pocket-dance. Not quite as severe, but the kinda principal. ôAnd as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank,ö Why? Just fit 1 or 2 PDS and cap will not be a problem. That is true, but you'd be at a regen of 265 shield / s and have 1 slot left for resistances. Hardly enough for a halfdecent lvl 4? Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
r0b0to	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:46:00 - [53] I beat a corpmate's raven with my myrm D: we're about the same age of course, he's a few days older...
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:55:00 - [54] Originally by: r0b0to I beat a corpmate's raven with my myrm D: we're about the same age of course, he's a few days older... Grats. Now move along we are discussing PvE passive shield tanked setup here.
r0b0to	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:00:00 - [55] lol, here's my passive setup: Lows: 4x Named SPR's 1x Named PDU 1x T2 DCU Mids: 3x Named LSE's 2x Invul Fields (or do a rat specific resist setup) Highs: 1x Drone Link Augmentor 5x Named 650mm Artillery (rat specific ammo) 4x Rat specific heavies 5x Rat specific lights (you can also do 5x heavies) 3x Defence Field Purgers (i dont remember the name, the one that raises shield recharge) Warp in, point ship away from rat spawn, move full speed, aggro, release drones.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [56] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 17/08/2007 20:10:59 A blasterboat without MWD?!?!?!? [/thread]
Bentula	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [57] Actually im quite interested in this. Using ogres is a pain for missions, but i have trouble choosing the right sentries ... 1. You have to pick sentries by type of rats you are going to fight, no good using garde vs angels. 2. You have to choose sentries by range you operate at. If you often have to fight BS orbiting at 50-60km, again you better not use garde. So what do you do to prevent 1 and 2 from colliding on a ship that can only fit a single wave? Lets say you need the gardes tracking but the wardens damagetype? Or you need the bouncers range with thermal damage? That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Ofc the new wavedesign kept me from using drones at long range at all, so you can imagine what ship i used recently. Not to mention that while a drake looses 25% damage for not using kinetic, a myrm pretty much looses even more for not using thermal + messing up their tracking ... P.S. Cruiser sized missiles systems are not all sunshine either, defenders of doom FTL , but i refuse using torpraven ever again.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [58] Its for PvE and MWD is mostly useless for PvE Passive shield tanking guide click here
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Pottsey Its for PvE and MWD is mostly useless for PvE So are blasters. Fit Arty
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:18:00 - [60] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? You rubbished Pottseys analysis despite the fact that hes seen as the authority on Gallente shield tanks, dps and workable fits. I guess you weren't to know if you've never read any of his excellent threads before.

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