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Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:55:00 - [61] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: NoNah Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? You rubbished Pottseys analysis despite the fact that hes seen as the authority on Gallente shield tanks, dps and workable fits. I guess you weren't to know if you've never read any of his excellent threads before. erm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this. if you see him this way it's ok, but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap. Originally by: Bentula Actually im quite interested in this. Using ogres is a pain for missions, but i have trouble choosing the right sentries ... 1. You have to pick sentries by type of rats you are going to fight, no good using garde vs angels. 2. You have to choose sentries by range you operate at. If you often have to fight BS orbiting at 50-60km, again you better not use garde. So what do you do to prevent 1 and 2 from colliding on a ship that can only fit a single wave? Lets say you need the gardes tracking but the wardens damagetype? Or you need the bouncers range with thermal damage? That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Ofc the new wavedesign kept me from using drones at long range at all, so you can imagine what ship i used recently. Not to mention that while a drake looses 25% damage for not using kinetic, a myrm pretty much looses even more for not using thermal + messing up their tracking ... P.S. Cruiser sized missiles systems are not all sunshine either, defenders of doom FTL , but i refuse using torpraven ever again. damagewise you don't have that much choice, gallente sentries deal way more damage than any other, so they're always an option (except for angels, but bouncers are great). fit drone scope chips and omnidirectional tracking links (1 shouldn't ruin your tank if passive, on an armor tank you can fit way more) for range, the latter also help with tracking. fit small railguns in the highs, these will hit targets where the tracking of your wardens will be inadequate (around 22km). fit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate. go for t2 sentries they have 20% more range :p so erm for guristas i use warden, for angels bouncer, for the rest preferably garde. if nothing helps you can always launch the sentries and move your ship so the rats are in optimal, but that's tedious.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:57:00 - [62] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 20:58:55 Originally by: Bentula That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Domi, Ishtar. I'm afraid that's all I could come up with, and is the prime reason I am in now a Domi instead of Myrm for lvl 4's. While you could get it to work with Myrm, it's not effective enough.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. I donÆt have the title Queen of passive tanking for nothing. That doesnÆt mean you have to like or use my setups but it does mean I know my stuff on the subject. I never go around saying my setups are the best. Only that they work. If people donÆt like my setups thatÆs fine but donÆt tell me they are crap or donÆt work. I freely admit some of my setups are not the best possible setup. There is no such thing as a best possible setup anyway. Whats best is all down to your play style. ôfit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate.ö Smartbombs donÆt work anymore rats now orbit further out most of the time outside smartbomb range. I had to unfit mine ages back as it rarey got used. Unless somethings changed again, its been a long time since I used smartbombs. Been thinking about digging out my smartbomb only ship know T2 bombs are cheap. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. Yeh, Pottsey knows her stuff about passive tanking... only a forum nublet wouldn't know that. (seriously). I don't always agree with Pottsey, but that's not really the point. ^_^ Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:39:00 - [65] I've actually been considering asking Pottsey and/or AkitaT to pick apart my new Passive Domi setup for R4's. I've always seen them as very knowledgeable players and respect them for that reason. As for this Thread... The Myrm -can- field a better tank and better DPS than the Drake. But I do not believe it is vastly superior. The real downside to the Drake is, Even if it wanted to it can't put up impressive DPS like the Myrmidon can. The Myrm is more versatile in what it can do. The Drake is just a 1 trick pony. That said, I flew the Drake for a long time and prefer it over the Myrmidon. That is, until I got my Dominix.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 23:12:00 - [66] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. I donÆt have the title Queen of passive tanking for nothing. That doesnÆt mean you have to like or use my setups but it does mean I know my stuff on the subject. I never go around saying my setups are the best. Only that they work. If people donÆt like my setups thatÆs fine but donÆt tell me they are crap or donÆt work. I freely admit some of my setups are not the best possible setup. There is no such thing as a best possible setup anyway. Whats best is all down to your play style. actually the only setup i saw from you by now (the pvp domi,as was said already i'm a forum nublet) imo is crap, but i liked it nonetheless. Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôfit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate.ö Smartbombs donÆt work anymore rats now orbit further out most of the time outside smartbomb range. I had to unfit mine ages back as it rarey got used. Unless somethings changed again, its been a long time since I used smartbombs. Been thinking about digging out my smartbomb only ship know T2 bombs are cheap. they work on all rats i can't hit with my rails anymore and that's just what i said, passive myrmis have enough grid to fit a large one and faction ones are pretty cheap, thus i bomb rats at 6k or less. when you use sentries it also takes a while to move yourself into optimal range to just kill a handfull of frigs and when you rat you may have bad luck and get a respawn and you'll loose some sentries when doing this.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:26:00 - [67] OK Pottsey, you may be an authority on tanks, and that's all well and good. But apparently you have no idea about blasters or drones if you're saying that Ogres travel faster than missiles and aren't susceptible to being popped if not in scoop range. And that you can hit real PvPers with blasters and no MWD. I'd say the Drake is much better at tanking and damage than the Myrm at ranges of 25-70km. If you really want to fully passive tank a Myrm and do damage with no propulsion mod fit projectiles and sentries, then compare the damage (and keep in mind someone will need to be dual webbing and target painting for you as sentry tracking SUCKS and so do the longer ranged turrets if you're not using lots of tracking computers and enhancers.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:43:00 - [68] Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 00:51:26 This is a much more viable mission setup, won't cap out and actually has the range. Sorry but you're gonna have to use your light drones to kill cruiser and below mission rats, neither your arty nor your sentries will have the tracking to hit anything lower unless you're webbing, and well, you're not. And after 25km or so your guns will be in falloff as well, so the damage will be effectively halved from the guns. 5x 650mm Artillery Cannon II [30xTitanium Sabot M] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I 2x Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II 5x Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin I 4x Warden I ~55% average resist, ~200-230 shields per second at peak. 250-300dps (if you're hitting for full damage, you won't be) Use a Drake. 7x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Heavy Missile] 3x Large Shield Extender II 2x Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 3x Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin II 346 dps that doesn't need to worry about tracking, or speed much as light drones are wicked fast. You also don't need to worry about drone aggro in missions if you need to, keep the drones in bay. Tank is pretty admirable too, 75% average resists with BC V, ~170-200hp/s recharge at peak.
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:49:00 - [69] Edited by: Kamen on 18/08/2007 00:50:30 Edited by: Kamen on 18/08/2007 00:50:06 "Dream EFT pvp max-tanks setups" - All skills maxed, use all T2 (incl rigs), permarun tank as long as cap booster charges hold Goal: Maximize tank. Do not focus on DPS but DPS can not require propuslsion! Drake --- High: Heavies II (Scourge Fury) Med: 3x LSE II, 2x Invulni II, Small Cap booster (50) needed to permarun Lows: SPR II Core Defense Purger IIs -------------------------------- Defense: 997 DPS: 255 Myrmi: --- High: 4x 250mmII 2x 200mm II rails Med: 2x LSE II, 2x Invulni II, Small Cap booster (200) needed to permarun Lows: SPR II Core Defense Purger IIs ---------------------------------- Defense: 888 DPS: 668 with DG AM 604 with DG Iron (prmarun) 779 with Neutrons, DG AM 703 with Neutrons, DG Thorium (permerun) I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! Gallente, balanced as always :) ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.18 01:18:00 - [70] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. I'm sorry, entirely offtopic, but I think that's the most entertaining thing I've seen on the forums. (And yes, I'm a Caldari)
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:22:00 - [71] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. I'm sorry, entirely offtopic, but I think that's the most entertaining thing I've seen on the forums. (And yes, I'm a Caldari) I guess I must not be Caldari as I am actually still waiting for someone to make a counter-argument to my claim :P I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:43:00 - [72] Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 03:43:58 Originally by: Kamen I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! Erm. You seem a bit dense then, let me spell it out for you. "YOUR THEORETICAL DAMAGE WILL NEVER WORK IN AN ACTUAL INGAME MISSION." Myrm tank is arguable better, yes. If your hybrids magically had infinite tracking and range and your drones were unshootable and travel 10km/s to their target then yes. Until these base mechanics change Drake will always be superior in all missions save AFKing em by aggroing room and realeasing drones. Take both these setups out and actually TRY em, then come back and talk about actual ingame stuff, not some random Quickfit bullcrap you've pulled together.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.18 04:11:00 - [73] Edited by: Shiken Kan on 18/08/2007 04:11:32 Edited by: Shiken Kan on 18/08/2007 04:11:01 actually i think the myrmi is way better than the drake, tank is worse, but still good enough and if you fit it right it will outdamage the drake by a nice margin (not 300% tho). oh and i happen to fly it too :D /edit i'm a bit sleepy
ChimeraRouge Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.08.18 04:31:00 - [74] drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship.
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.08.18 06:52:00 - [75] Why would you create an active tank Drake setup and not include a shield booster? No wonder it lost "in every imaginable way." For what it's worth, here's how I active-tanked mine: 7x t2 heavy missile launcher 1 Large Dread Guristas shield booster 1 Dread Guristas EM hardener 1 Dread Guristas Kinetic hardner 1 Dread Guristas thermal hardener 1 t2 large extender 1 free slot (yes, I know, still haven't figured out exactly what I want in here) 1 t2 pdu 1 t2 shield boost amp 1 t2 damage control 1 t2 bcu Dps blows, but it's a Drake. Even without rigs, it tanks very well, though I'd never use it for pvp because I'd rather not lose a whole set of faction shield hardeners.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:18:00 - [76] Originally by: ChimeraRouge drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship. cough cough This topic is about pve. myrmidon with 3 rsd (or 2 rsd + 1 ecm burst) > drake - damp the drake so it will take him 5+ minutes to lock the drone - how about this argument?
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:21:00 - [77] OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. ---
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:23:00 - [78] PvE guys, PvE.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Janus Duo Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 00:51:26 This is a much more viable mission setup, won't cap out and actually has the range. Sorry but you're gonna have to use your light drones to kill cruiser and below mission rats, neither your arty nor your sentries will have the tracking to hit anything lower unless you're webbing, and well, you're not. Arties will hit just well if you have distance. Also you should not necessary use mediums, ya know? Originally by: Janus Duo And after 25km or so your guns will be in falloff as well, so the damage will be effectively halved from the guns. 5x 650mm Artillery Cannon II [30xTitanium Sabot M] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I 2x Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II 5x Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin I 4x Warden I ~55% average resist, ~200-230 shields per second at peak. 250-300dps (if you're hitting for full damage, you won't be) Where did you get these numbers from? 4 Warden II's only themself will do about 350 dps - thats without the dps from guns.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:34:00 - [80] Originally by: n0thing OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. You do realize that you will need to dish out about 1-1.2k dps to break the passive shield tanked myrmidon?
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Neena Valdi Where did you get these numbers from? 4 Warden II's only themself will do about 350 dps - thats without the dps from guns. I was using Warden Is because using T2 drones in missions is stupid. They just get blown up every few missions, and then you've lost your profit margin. Sentries perhaps could be the exception, but I admit I stopped trying to make a sentry drone domi work well long before the T2 sentry drones came out. Still, your theoretical DPS means crap because they have trouble even tracking slow moving BSes. Good luck even landing a hit on anything smaller. And again, IF YOU HAVE DISTANCE Arties will hit. Too bad you're so slow without propulsion mod (and are having to sit in scoop range of your sentries to protect your shiny T2 investment) that you're not gonna be dictating range at all. And I'd like to see you hit the 50-60km orbiting BSes with small arties.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:56:00 - [82] If you get your t2 sentries blown than you need to stop playing EVE :)
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.18 08:16:00 - [83] ôOK Pottsey, you may be an authority on tanks, and that's all well and good. But apparently you have no idea about blasters or drones if you're saying that Ogres travel faster than missiles and aren't susceptible to being popped if not in scoop range. And that you can hit real PvPers with blasters and no MWD.ö Only an authority on passive shield tanks not all tanks. I never once said ogres travel faster then missiles. I said some drones donÆt need to travel like missiles and hit the target right away. I never said you cannot use MWD with blasters for PvP. I said this is a PvE setup thread so MWD is useless as it doesnÆt work for PvE most of the time. I also said railguns work better then blasters for PvE. Due to waves warping in blasters will often be out of range while railguns can shoot. ôI'd say the Drake is much better at tanking and damage than the Myrm at ranges of 25-70km.ö The math says the Myrm has the stronger tank with more HP regen most of the time. ôIf you really want to fully passive tank a Myrm and do damage with no propulsion mod fit projectilesö I use hybrids T2 no problem. But it doesnÆt matter what you fit as the ship has no turret bonus. You can fit propulsion the only reason I dont is I dont see a need for it. ôIt has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range.ö Do you have T4 NPCÆs where you do missions? ôthen compare the damage (and keep in mind someone will need to be dual webbing and target painting for you as sentry tracking SUCKS aö 0.03 is not that bad itÆs almost as good as a large blaster more then enough for PvE. If you need more fit more tracking modules. A Large blaster is only 0.04 Passive shield tanking guide click here
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 08:43:00 - [84] You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. Also about your tracking figures, anybody that's using large blasters is webbing too. The Mega gets a tracking bonus and doesn't have to worry AS MUCH as other blasterboats, but even it still aways fits a web.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:18:00 - [85] Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 09:19:50 You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. Well if you look at it from my point of view. I said blasters donÆt work as well as railguns in post 4 and MWD doesnÆt work post 59. Then you came along and told me ôBut apparently you have no idea about blasters or dronesö I havenÆt just acknowledged this now I have been saying it since the start. ôI was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there.ö First off Sentries hit small targets fine as long as itÆs not point blank. I kill frigs and cruisers with them same for raliguns. If its long range I hit the target when its close my freind with missiles takes over. Turrets hit frigs for full damage at range unlike missiles. The trick is to drop the sentry 10+km behind you and aggro the rats. The rats come towards you putting your sentry drones at the perfect distance and railguns can kick to life as well as the rats fly in a straight line at you. Target frigs first then move to cruisers and lastly battleships. Once that rats get to you they are still far enough away for the sentry drones to hit. I find when new waves warp in they aggro the closest target so the drones should be ok as your closer to the new wave as long as you placed the drones correctly. It does mean learning the missions though. I donÆt recall saying the Myrmi has better range only that its weapons are not always limited by travel time which is true. The myrim can shoot with drones and turrets and kill a target before missiles hit. If thatÆs case how can we say the Myrin weapons have worse travel time? In my mind thatÆs better travel time for weapons. Part of this problem with this thread is some people are talking about lvl 3 missions and others lvl 4. Some solo, some groups. In lvl 3 I would say the Myrmi is tons faster. In lvl 4 the two ships close up in speed. Personal I think the best option is to have a 2 pair gang one with turrets and one with missiles both with drones and mindlink so both get a large tanking bonusÆs. This way you do missions more then twice as fast as solo so you make more isk. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Broke Armor	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Janus Duo You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. The only enemy my sentries have trouble with are interceptors. They either need to be targetted first to get them playing sitting duck or while mwding towards you or kept to be killed last while you move away from your sentries. The sentries (t1) hit hard enough to 2 volley interceptors in missions or 1 volley if you got the target painted. (with 1 sentry rig) Imaos
Imaos	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:58:00 - [87] Dang shopping alt. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however t
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.18 13:00:00 - [88] Originally by: Broke Armor Originally by: Janus Duo You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. The only enemy my sentries have trouble with are interceptors. They either need to be targetted first to get them playing sitting duck or while mwding towards you or kept to be killed last while you move away from your sentries. The sentries (t1) hit hard enough to 2 volley interceptors in missions or 1 volley if you got the target painted. (with 1 sentry rig) Imaos same for me, i also instapop any small drone at distance with em, so i really don't know where this hits only bs's comes from.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.08.18 14:39:00 - [89] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: n0thing OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. You do realize that you will need to dish out about 1-1.2k dps to break the passive shield tanked myrmidon? I got all the time till DT to get help into system since the above mentioned Myrmidon wont go anywhere. Thats the whole point, you get caught, you wont ever get out unless your near your home systems with reinforcements. Thus setup is not viable for any ranged flights. ---
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 14:52:00 - [90] Of course you should not use pve-fitted ships in pvp.

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