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Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:28:00 - [1] I quickly threw a fitting together for a drake and a myrm, to compare the two, and the myrm beats the drake in every imaginable way. if someone finds my error, please tell :p fittings with assumed skills all level 5: drake: -hi: - 7 HML II med: -2 LSE II -EM hardener II -Heat Hardener II -EM Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II low: -2 BCS II -2 SPR II Rigs: -Missile Damage I -2 Shield Recharge II -> 374 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 481 DPS Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II med: -2 LSE II -EM Hardener II -Heat Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II lo: -5 SPR II -Magstab II Rigs: - 3 Shield Purger II -> 614 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 767 DPS and mind you, this is only for mission running, i know this wouldnt be very viable for pvp ;)
Sidephex New Dawn Rising	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:30:00 - [2] as if outdamaging a drake is that hard to achieve
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:32:00 - [3] And youre forgetting to mention that drake is rangeindependant, myrmid very range dependant. Both setups are in general somewhat poor imho. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 10:39:41 Are railguns not better then blasters for missions? Dont you need AB with blasters or do you just let ships come to you? edit "EM Hardener II -Heat Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II" Dont most rats only do two damage types? If you want muti damage why not use 3 invul fields? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez ...cut... Your myrm setup is just a bait.. in real eve the DPS is 0. U cannot go in blaster range and 5 ogres die fast... The drake have not that exceptional DPS but how much time will take to kill those ogres? It's true that myrm can get a monster passive tank, but can work just as bait or missions tanker .. On the other side a passive drake is much more usable. Not exceptional DPS but range indipendant and is still dammage. --------------------------- Alternative idea to NOS
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:48:00 - [6] Keep in mind that a competent drake pilot can three-volley your heavy drones if you don't pay proper attention.. And it's easy to say 'retract them' but you lose alot of DPS that way.
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:58:00 - [7] as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:01:00 - [8] ôIt's true that myrm can get a monster passive tank, but can work just as bait or missions tanker.ö ThatÆs rubbish it can tank and fit EW. I warp scram someone just last week in it. Passive shield tanking guide click here
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p Of course invulns are not a very good idea for missions, but in the same manner 4 different harderners are even worse - even for counting and comparisson. But the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remains. And that ogre's die like flies in missions - especially as you have to have them out at exreme ranges on that setup. Now if you want to compare the drake with anything do so with the cane or binger. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
DARTHxFREE Aliastra	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:04:00 - [10] Ur drake set up sucks, 4x single hardners... thiers no point trying for such resistance's, invuls do it better and free up space for better mod's >:-E3 /join Cheeze & Whine Club Blaster Kamikaze, If your not prepeared to give it all up, stop saying your not a care bear
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:10:00 - [11] ôBut the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remainsö The myrm can also choose it damage type with no travel time for weapons. ThatÆs not advantage for the Drake. Passive shield tanking guide click here
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Pottsey ôBut the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remainsö The myrm can also choose it damage type with no travel time for weapons. ThatÆs not advantage for the Drake. The drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does. The drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling. Yes, the myrm can choose its damage type on 450 of its dps, however loosing up to 20% of its damage while doing so. And the 160 dps from the rails can never alter its damage types. Yes, these are advantages to the drake. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez drake: -hi: - 7 HML II Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that?
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:30:00 - [14] erm somehow all fittings in this thread are weird :p fit rat specific hardeners, not an omnitank for missions, use 3 lse 2, don't use weapon damage mods on a myrmi. if you go full tank then the drake outtanks a myrmi, if you fit one bcu myrmi will be better as omnitank, drake should still field a marginally better tank if fitted for 1 resistance. your myrmi has cap issues.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. Oh, and recent studies indicate that they are actually doing this unintentionally, if you spot one try to forgive it. Oh, and some of them are in their teens showing aggression as their I-win button they presumed they had actually got minor flaws and scratches(You know, if 100'000 players use it, that might happen?). Some overcome it, some give up and go back to more cookie cutter friendly games. Odds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion. oh, and dps is of course calculated with high damage low range ammo. Drake does not really field a viable short range alternative as of today, as HAM's are somewhat midranged. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Shiken Kan erm somehow all fittings in this thread are weird :p fit rat specific hardeners, not an omnitank for missions, use 3 lse 2, don't use weapon damage mods on a myrmi. if you go full tank then the drake outtanks a myrmi, if you fit one bcu myrmi will be better as omnitank, drake should still field a marginally better tank if fitted for 1 resistance. your myrmi has cap issues. Invuls are just placeholders as tanks need to be changed around depending on mission. I would like to see the drake you speak of that outtanks the myrmid however. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:07:00 - [17] oh forget to post my myrm :p 1x drone link augmentor 1x large faction smartbomb (it's cheap enough) 4x 150mm rail 2 (iridium ammo) 3x lse 2 2x rat specific res. amplifiers 6x spr 2 1x sentry damage augmentor 2x shield purger rigs 5x sentries (not necessarily garde due to range) tanks around 600 if fitted for omni.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Caldrinara Yez drake: -hi: - 7 HML II Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;)
CptEagle Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:26:00 - [19] Also, I'm pretty sure that uber shieldtank/gank setup of yours will run out of cap rather fast. Shooting missiles has obviously made you're brain numb.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:38:00 - [20] ôOdds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion.ö Do you know who I am? The only thing more odd then thinking I have never flown a passive tanked myrmidon is thinking I have never flown a passive tank Domi. Only last week there was a thread where I offered to dual people on the test server with my passive tank myrmidon. People took me up on that offer and I still offer it. ôThe drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does.ö The Drake has to wait longer. Press engage seconds later you hit and damage the new target with turrets and/or drones on the myrm. The Drake on the other hand has to wait for missiles to travel. ôThe drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling.ö Not all drones need to travel to hit there target. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:43:00 - [21] protip: to counter a myrm shoot the 5 heavy drones the moron is using. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Acoco Osiris Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:24:00 - [22] A few problems First: A Myrmidon mission-runner will be using medium/light drones, not heavies. Second: Missions tend to be done at long-range. It would take forever for a Myrmi to slowboat into NOS and blaster range, especially without an afterburner, and some enemies would be uncatchable at blaster range. Third: Passive shield Myrmis use arty/autocannons for 0 cap use. Common tactic (and I think I might just ape it). Fourth: You'd use specific resists, not an omni tank for missions, since you already know what's coming and can adjust resists accordingly. Fifth: You forgot both ships' drone bays. The Myrmidon's primary weapon is its drones, and the Drake has some lights to mop the floor with frigates and serve as a little extra DPS on larger ships. Sixth: Once you use specific resists on a Drake, you can get a lot more shields with either more LSE IIs or resists. Seventh: You were comparing a long-range weapon (heavy missiles) with the shortest-range, highest-damage weapon out there (blasters). Eigth: Yes, the Myrmidon really is a bit overpowered. In all, though, you made several mistakes with fitting and comparison, which made the Myrmidon seem better for missions than it really is. Both the Drake and Myrmidon are very good mission boats. Plus, you've forgotten the 25% resists from the Drake ship bonus. That increases the tank by 1/3 (since regen/second is inverse to resists). In all, I think the Drake can put up a more solid tank, but the Myrmi can probably out-damage it, and an armor-tanked Myrmi is much more versatile since it can fit AB and Ewar gear. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Neena Valdi Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;) Ever since we started talking about BC missile weaponry? Maybe you're thinking of HAM's? So now following your advice, we have Garde's and Blasters on your supertank Myrm, and you can no longer hit targets at 50km. If you want to get those ~50km Guristas, maybe you'll bring some Wardens. Base tracking 0.01, so you'll now have trouble hitting cruisers at 15km. So maybe it's 4 Sentries, 5 lights, long range ammo for blasters? Not only are we no longer in super dps mode, to be effective we need either tracking, stasis or propulsion mods so we're no longer in supertank mode either. Personally I wouldn't use sentries with the Myrmidon, nor would I use them without an omnidirectional. They work great in my Domi though, since I have room for several types of sentry, as well as mediums and lights.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:37:00 - [24] What **** would shield tank a mrymidon? Any ship with 5 mids can do that too op. ----------------- Friends Forever** Kill. BoB. Dead.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez as i said, its only for mission running, and i fit blasters to rip apart the stuff that comes into my range, works just the other way round with rails, so that doesnt matter. and i will swap hardeners/amplifiers to mission damage type, so invul fields arent a very good option i dont care if a drake can drop my drones, since this is only for missions ;p Mission running with only heavies? You asking to die? ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:40:00 - [26] Dang people they are called sentry drones, love em use em never turn back
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:40:00 - [27] Originally by: CptEagle Also, I'm pretty sure that uber shieldtank/gank setup of yours will run out of cap rather fast. Shooting missiles has obviously made you're brain numb. i'll say it again, this is for missions, and works out with all skills at 5, since its only theoretical
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert Nexus Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.17 13:55:00 - [28] on my passive tank myr that i use for lvl 4s i use 4 heavy and 5 lights and on my drake i use 7 arb launchers and 5 t2 hobs... they are both rigged out with 3 purgers and hards for the rats in the mission and i still prefer my myr cause shooting 500 heavy missiles on a bs in a lvl 4 gets old and costly the myr seams to tank better and kill the bses a bit faster
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:08:00 - [29] ôOdds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion.ö Do you know who I am? The only thing more odd then thinking I have never flown a passive tanked myrmidon is thinking I have never flown a passive tank Domi. Only last week there was a thread where I offered to dual people on the test server with my passive tank myrmidon. People took me up on that offer and I still offer it. I'm sorry, but I really can't see how your experiences on pvping in whatever the ship maybe has anything at all to do with TQ. It's an entirely different game, missions would be somewhat similiar, but you are in fact comparing it to pvp. No, I'm afraid I just can't see this proving very much. And fine, you may very well be a experienced pilot in the art, I have no clue, but I can admit I find it suprising. ôThe drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does.ö The Drake has to wait longer. Press engage seconds later you hit and damage the new target with turrets and/or drones on the myrm. The Drake on the other hand has to wait for missiles to travel. Yes, but it does not matter when it hits. It's just a delay, during which you can continue dealing damage. The myrmid will not. Ogre II's travel at less than 1050 m/s, how fast are missiles again? And once again, missiles - constant dps, drones - not constant. ôThe drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling.ö Not all drones need to travel to hit there target. This is true, but if you are to keep comparing the dps, you would be comparing it with Garde II, which means anything outside of the optimal of your sentries and rails(which by now should be approaching the same values), will be at a very very decreased dps - due to either range or tracking. Does missiles suffer from this? No. Sentry drones are great as a complement, and you can even use them as an allround tool with some management, however they will still be at loss compared to missiles on a whole - thanks to the versatility. Then again, I presume you have tried running this shieldtanked blasterfitted sentry boat in missions and compared it to the drake, right? Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 13:46:06 Originally by: Neena Valdi Since when HML are 'long range weapon'. Not to mention that the majority of myrmidon dps comes from drones. Try t2 sentry drones ;) Ever since we started talking about BC missile weaponry? Maybe you're thinking of HAM's, though I hear they are more of a midrange weapon? Never used them myself. So now following your advice, we have Garde's and Blasters on your supertank Myrm, and you can no longer hit targets at 50km. If you want to get those ~50km Guristas, maybe you'll bring some Wardens. Base tracking 0.01, so you'll now have trouble hitting cruisers at 15km. So maybe it's 4 Sentries, 5 lights, long range ammo for blasters? Not only are we no longer in super dps mode, to be effective we need either tracking, stasis or propulsion mods so we're no longer in supertank mode either. Personally I wouldn't use sentries with the Myrmidon, nor would I use them without an omnidirectional. They work great in my Domi though, since I have room for several types of sentry, as well as mediums and lights. Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:03:00 - [31] Since we are talking about PVE both the fittings are flawed. a) The Drake fitting because you need 2 hardeners only or 2 inv fields. So 4 LES T2, 1 BSU T2, 1 PDU T2, 2 SPR T2. Rigs : 2 extenders, 1 recharger. (For the rest). b) The Myrm to fly it like that you need 10mn AB t2. Or else it will never hit onces. And that needs cap. With 5 T2 SPR online, the cap will drain in seconds if you turn on the AB and the blasters. On paper might work but not in reality.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Pottsey ôYes, but it does not matter when it hits.ö Yes it does matter this is what happens in my gang. New wave comes in. I target and shoot and kill. Swap kill, swap kill. Missile still travailing to first target. I have in the past killed 4 or 5 frigs before the first missile even hit. To avoid this we use tags and chat about whoÆs going hit what target. Our general rule is I hit small ships far away, when they get close its his job. Oh, yes, when in a gang, it's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile. Originally by: DJ P Since we are talking about PVE both the fittings are flawed. a) The Drake fitting because you need 2 hardeners only or 2 inv fields. So 4 LES T2, 1 BSU T2, 1 PDU T2, 2 SPR T2. Rigs : 2 extenders, 1 recharger. (For the rest). b) The Myrm to fly it like that you need 10mn AB t2. Or else it will never hit onces. And that needs cap. With 5 T2 SPR online, the cap will drain in seconds if you turn on the AB and the blasters. On paper might work but not in reality. Funny, that drake setup seems to deal less damage and tank worse than the ones mentioned? And as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank, as you say. However its rare to need more than 60km range. The rails will handle shorter ranges quite effectivly - except for extreme examples such as Spider Drone II's, which will be an issue however even Ogre II's take them down eventually. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:23:00 - [33] Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 15:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Neena Valdi Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters. Hint: Read the OP, stick to topic please.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Neena Valdi Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility. you can forget the cruiser sized sig on passive shield tankers, it's more like cap sized sig :p oh and sentries are great for missions, you just have to fit the frig defense to your his, that's why i use small rails and a smartie :p
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:16:00 - [36] so how would you fit a shieldtanked t1 myrm for most dps/tanking in missions? esp what guns(do med rails still hit close up, say at 8k range?)/drones? sadly i can't use much of the expensive or advanced stuff, except for t2 extenders :/ so i hope some of you can come up with t1 fittings that do good damage but still kill those nasty elite frigs swiftly.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:18:00 - [37] I'd say artilleries or AC's rather than blasters. Or heck, even pulses. Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:29:00 - [38] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 16:31:53 ôit's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile.ö If I am killing 4 ships before the missiles hit and moving onto my 5th target with turrets and drones in group missions then logically the same would happen solo. With turrets you kill faster and move onto your next target. By the time the missiles hit and start heading towards there next target your already on the targets after that with turrets and sentry drones. With missiles youÆre also going make a mistakes at some point and shoot to many or not enough missiles wasting time as you swap back to your target or wasting ammo. I also find turrets do more DPS. At least at range. Missiles win at short range. (railguns) When solo blasters can work. You aggro everything and let it come to you. Then bring your drones out. I stoped that once waves where added to missions though. ôAnd as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank,ö Why? Just fit 1 or 2 PDS and cap will not be a problem. ôPottsey may do it on a Domi/Myrm (?), but I'd have a hard time accepting the wasted rig slot.ö Just to be clear, I have done it and fitted the rigs but itÆs untested. The Domi hasnÆt seen combat yet with the rigs fitted so it might not work. Not using my Myrm right now decided to swap to a sentry drone rigged Domi. EDIT: Testing Sent rig setup now Domi though. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:29:00 - [39] Originally by: Shiken Kan Originally by: Neena Valdi Well, it's all cool, but Ishtar beats 'em both. I heard of ppl doing even some L5's using passive shield tanked ishtars. Cruiser sig + domi size of drone bay + good kinetic resist + higher speed + higher agility. you can forget the cruiser sized sig on passive shield tankers, it's more like cap sized sig :p True, but the signature is still much smaller than the sig of passive tanked myrm / drake. Turn on AB and orbit your sentries.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 16:09:36 Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 16:09:09 Originally by: Neena Valdi Hint: I didn't say anything about blasters. Hint: Read the OP and stick to topic or clearly specify where you divert from it. Perhaps I didn't divert anything from? Saying 'HML's are long range weapon while blasters are short range is same as saying drones are long range weapon while the smartbombs are short range weapon. Both statements are rather stupid and doesn't make much sense.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:32:00 - [41] I would like to point out that, missles also take time to hit the target just like drones take time to get there, altho our missles are a tad faster Also, if you switch the 5 orge 2s to a different damage type, you will lose dps. So does the drake if he switches from kinetic. I hate how people ignore this fact (it IS a 25% dps loss if you have bc 5...) Drake > Mym tho. Missles are cooler than drones hands down. F1-F7-take a nap
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:44:00 - [42] "I would like to point out that, missles also take time to hit the target just like drones take time to get there, altho our missles are a tad faster" Only some drones. sentry drones dont take time. Passive shield tanking guide click here
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.17 16:46:00 - [43] Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:46:48
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez so how would you fit a shieldtanked t1 myrm for most dps/tanking in missions? esp what guns(do med rails still hit close up, say at 8k range?)/drones? sadly i can't use much of the expensive or advanced stuff, except for t2 extenders :/ so i hope some of you can come up with t1 fittings that do good damage but still kill those nasty elite frigs swiftly. for fast and small targets you'll be better off fitting small rails, they can hit everything from 6 to 20km depending on skills. the damage you'd loose isn't that dramatic as myrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways. for a fit: hi 1x large smartbomb (faction if possible, they're cheap) 4x 150mm rail (named) 1x drone link augmentor mid 3x lse(t2 or best named) 2x rat specific passive hardener low 6x spr(t2 or best named) use heavies or sentries, depending on what you prefer. fit rigs accordingly (i.e. 3 purger when you like heavies or 2 purger and 1 sentry damage if you use sentries) cap isn't an issue as long as you don't run your smartie all the time.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:22:00 - [45] ômyrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways.ö ThatÆs not true just fit more PDS and you can fire everything. I have 425mm railguns on my Hyper and 6 turrets on my Domi no cap problems. Same for myrm I used to use turrets no problem. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:44:00 - [46] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 17:46:26 Originally by: Neena Valdi Perhaps I didn't divert anything from? Saying 'HML's are long range weapon while blasters are short range is same as saying drones are long range weapon while the smartbombs are short range weapon. Both statements are rather stupid and doesn't make much sense. But you did divert. OP clearly states max damage setup with blasters, and the numbers point to Ogres. You want to switch not only to sentries (seldom good on solo Myrm, imho) but also to another gun class, only this you don't mention. That's diverting, and also leaving essential information out. Save for sentries, drones are different from guns & missiles. However, each gun and missile class has separate short and long range variants, what is so stupid about stating this obvious fact? HML's & HAM's. Blasters & Rails.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:47:00 - [47] Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties.
Queen Hopy Your Friendly Booster Company	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:48:00 - [48] Try using some extender rigs instead of going all purger. Why? The more shields u have to start with the better the extender rig is. And the purger rigs got a natural build in stacking nerf.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:04:00 - [49] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 18:06:25 Originally by: Neena Valdi Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties. That has no bearing in the discusssion between you and I in this thread. Not that I have ever contested the quoted statement, for that matter.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Queen Hopy Try using some extender rigs instead of going all purger. Why? The more shields u have to start with the better the extender rig is. And the purger rigs got a natural build in stacking nerf. The shield recharge rigs are more effective. Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 341 hp/s With Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I 313 hp/s
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:17:00 - [51] Originally by: Pottsey ômyrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways.ö ThatÆs not true just fit more PDS and you can fire everything. I have 425mm railguns on my Hyper and 6 turrets on my Domi no cap problems. Same for myrm I used to use turrets no problem. for lvl 4 i'd rather not exchange even a single spr for a pds. might get difficulties in tanking else. besides damage by drones is enough, cannons are just an addon imho.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:33:00 - [52] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 16:31:53 ôit's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile.ö If I am killing 4 ships before the missiles hit and moving onto my 5th target with turrets and drones in group missions then logically the same would happen solo. With turrets you kill faster and move onto your next target. By the time the missiles hit and start heading towards there next target your already on the targets after that with turrets and sentry drones. With missiles youÆre also going make a mistakes at some point and shoot to many or not enough missiles wasting time as you swap back to your target or wasting ammo. I also find turrets do more DPS. At least at range. Missiles win at short range. (railguns) When solo blasters can work. You aggro everything and let it come to you. Then bring your drones out. I stoped that once waves where added to missions though. Generally - you're quite right. Turrets deal more damage and are more viable than missiles as they hit instantly. When doing missions - in this scenario - missiles is likely to be better than the rails at just about every range, short of a narrow marginal around optimal. This is of course offset by the drones. However in the comparisson drones + rails vs missiles, the drones + rails need a higher maximal dps due to reasons stated above. How would you kill 4 targets before the missiles hit if they are the only offense around?(Short of 5 light drones of course). Yes, you're going to waste time, but that is a minor issue compared to the drones, basicly you'd do the same mistakes by trying to send drones off before they popped the target - just to avoid the initial drone-flying-where-ever-they-want-aggroing-the-rest-of-the pocket-dance. Not quite as severe, but the kinda principal. ôAnd as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank,ö Why? Just fit 1 or 2 PDS and cap will not be a problem. That is true, but you'd be at a regen of 265 shield / s and have 1 slot left for resistances. Hardly enough for a halfdecent lvl 4? Alts is just another name for inbreeders.
r0b0to	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:46:00 - [53] I beat a corpmate's raven with my myrm D: we're about the same age of course, he's a few days older...
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:55:00 - [54] Originally by: r0b0to I beat a corpmate's raven with my myrm D: we're about the same age of course, he's a few days older... Grats. Now move along we are discussing PvE passive shield tanked setup here.
r0b0to	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:00:00 - [55] lol, here's my passive setup: Lows: 4x Named SPR's 1x Named PDU 1x T2 DCU Mids: 3x Named LSE's 2x Invul Fields (or do a rat specific resist setup) Highs: 1x Drone Link Augmentor 5x Named 650mm Artillery (rat specific ammo) 4x Rat specific heavies 5x Rat specific lights (you can also do 5x heavies) 3x Defence Field Purgers (i dont remember the name, the one that raises shield recharge) Warp in, point ship away from rat spawn, move full speed, aggro, release drones.
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [56] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 17/08/2007 20:10:59 A blasterboat without MWD?!?!?!? [/thread]
Bentula	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [57] Actually im quite interested in this. Using ogres is a pain for missions, but i have trouble choosing the right sentries ... 1. You have to pick sentries by type of rats you are going to fight, no good using garde vs angels. 2. You have to choose sentries by range you operate at. If you often have to fight BS orbiting at 50-60km, again you better not use garde. So what do you do to prevent 1 and 2 from colliding on a ship that can only fit a single wave? Lets say you need the gardes tracking but the wardens damagetype? Or you need the bouncers range with thermal damage? That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Ofc the new wavedesign kept me from using drones at long range at all, so you can imagine what ship i used recently. Not to mention that while a drake looses 25% damage for not using kinetic, a myrm pretty much looses even more for not using thermal + messing up their tracking ... P.S. Cruiser sized missiles systems are not all sunshine either, defenders of doom FTL , but i refuse using torpraven ever again.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 - [58] Its for PvE and MWD is mostly useless for PvE Passive shield tanking guide click here
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Pottsey Its for PvE and MWD is mostly useless for PvE So are blasters. Fit Arty
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:18:00 - [60] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? You rubbished Pottseys analysis despite the fact that hes seen as the authority on Gallente shield tanks, dps and workable fits. I guess you weren't to know if you've never read any of his excellent threads before.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:55:00 - [61] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: NoNah Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 17/08/2007 16:56:36 Nonah strikes again! You're a funny guy. Just what would be the comic part of it? You rubbished Pottseys analysis despite the fact that hes seen as the authority on Gallente shield tanks, dps and workable fits. I guess you weren't to know if you've never read any of his excellent threads before. erm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this. if you see him this way it's ok, but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap. Originally by: Bentula Actually im quite interested in this. Using ogres is a pain for missions, but i have trouble choosing the right sentries ... 1. You have to pick sentries by type of rats you are going to fight, no good using garde vs angels. 2. You have to choose sentries by range you operate at. If you often have to fight BS orbiting at 50-60km, again you better not use garde. So what do you do to prevent 1 and 2 from colliding on a ship that can only fit a single wave? Lets say you need the gardes tracking but the wardens damagetype? Or you need the bouncers range with thermal damage? That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Ofc the new wavedesign kept me from using drones at long range at all, so you can imagine what ship i used recently. Not to mention that while a drake looses 25% damage for not using kinetic, a myrm pretty much looses even more for not using thermal + messing up their tracking ... P.S. Cruiser sized missiles systems are not all sunshine either, defenders of doom FTL , but i refuse using torpraven ever again. damagewise you don't have that much choice, gallente sentries deal way more damage than any other, so they're always an option (except for angels, but bouncers are great). fit drone scope chips and omnidirectional tracking links (1 shouldn't ruin your tank if passive, on an armor tank you can fit way more) for range, the latter also help with tracking. fit small railguns in the highs, these will hit targets where the tracking of your wardens will be inadequate (around 22km). fit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate. go for t2 sentries they have 20% more range :p so erm for guristas i use warden, for angels bouncer, for the rest preferably garde. if nothing helps you can always launch the sentries and move your ship so the rats are in optimal, but that's tedious.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.17 20:57:00 - [62] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/08/2007 20:58:55 Originally by: Bentula That problem kept me from using sentrys in missions, i would be happy to hear some solutions to that. Domi, Ishtar. I'm afraid that's all I could come up with, and is the prime reason I am in now a Domi instead of Myrm for lvl 4's. While you could get it to work with Myrm, it's not effective enough.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:25:00 - [63] Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. I donÆt have the title Queen of passive tanking for nothing. That doesnÆt mean you have to like or use my setups but it does mean I know my stuff on the subject. I never go around saying my setups are the best. Only that they work. If people donÆt like my setups thatÆs fine but donÆt tell me they are crap or donÆt work. I freely admit some of my setups are not the best possible setup. There is no such thing as a best possible setup anyway. Whats best is all down to your play style. ôfit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate.ö Smartbombs donÆt work anymore rats now orbit further out most of the time outside smartbomb range. I had to unfit mine ages back as it rarey got used. Unless somethings changed again, its been a long time since I used smartbombs. Been thinking about digging out my smartbomb only ship know T2 bombs are cheap. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:34:00 - [64] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. Yeh, Pottsey knows her stuff about passive tanking... only a forum nublet wouldn't know that. (seriously). I don't always agree with Pottsey, but that's not really the point. ^_^ Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.08.17 21:39:00 - [65] I've actually been considering asking Pottsey and/or AkitaT to pick apart my new Passive Domi setup for R4's. I've always seen them as very knowledgeable players and respect them for that reason. As for this Thread... The Myrm -can- field a better tank and better DPS than the Drake. But I do not believe it is vastly superior. The real downside to the Drake is, Even if it wanted to it can't put up impressive DPS like the Myrmidon can. The Myrm is more versatile in what it can do. The Drake is just a 1 trick pony. That said, I flew the Drake for a long time and prefer it over the Myrmidon. That is, until I got my Dominix.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.17 23:12:00 - [66] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. I donÆt have the title Queen of passive tanking for nothing. That doesnÆt mean you have to like or use my setups but it does mean I know my stuff on the subject. I never go around saying my setups are the best. Only that they work. If people donÆt like my setups thatÆs fine but donÆt tell me they are crap or donÆt work. I freely admit some of my setups are not the best possible setup. There is no such thing as a best possible setup anyway. Whats best is all down to your play style. actually the only setup i saw from you by now (the pvp domi,as was said already i'm a forum nublet) imo is crap, but i liked it nonetheless. Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13 ôfit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate.ö Smartbombs donÆt work anymore rats now orbit further out most of the time outside smartbomb range. I had to unfit mine ages back as it rarey got used. Unless somethings changed again, its been a long time since I used smartbombs. Been thinking about digging out my smartbomb only ship know T2 bombs are cheap. they work on all rats i can't hit with my rails anymore and that's just what i said, passive myrmis have enough grid to fit a large one and faction ones are pretty cheap, thus i bomb rats at 6k or less. when you use sentries it also takes a while to move yourself into optimal range to just kill a handfull of frigs and when you rat you may have bad luck and get a respawn and you'll loose some sentries when doing this.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:26:00 - [67] OK Pottsey, you may be an authority on tanks, and that's all well and good. But apparently you have no idea about blasters or drones if you're saying that Ogres travel faster than missiles and aren't susceptible to being popped if not in scoop range. And that you can hit real PvPers with blasters and no MWD. I'd say the Drake is much better at tanking and damage than the Myrm at ranges of 25-70km. If you really want to fully passive tank a Myrm and do damage with no propulsion mod fit projectiles and sentries, then compare the damage (and keep in mind someone will need to be dual webbing and target painting for you as sentry tracking SUCKS and so do the longer ranged turrets if you're not using lots of tracking computers and enhancers.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:43:00 - [68] Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 00:51:26 This is a much more viable mission setup, won't cap out and actually has the range. Sorry but you're gonna have to use your light drones to kill cruiser and below mission rats, neither your arty nor your sentries will have the tracking to hit anything lower unless you're webbing, and well, you're not. And after 25km or so your guns will be in falloff as well, so the damage will be effectively halved from the guns. 5x 650mm Artillery Cannon II [30xTitanium Sabot M] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I 2x Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II 5x Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin I 4x Warden I ~55% average resist, ~200-230 shields per second at peak. 250-300dps (if you're hitting for full damage, you won't be) Use a Drake. 7x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Heavy Missile] 3x Large Shield Extender II 2x Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 3x Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin II 346 dps that doesn't need to worry about tracking, or speed much as light drones are wicked fast. You also don't need to worry about drone aggro in missions if you need to, keep the drones in bay. Tank is pretty admirable too, 75% average resists with BC V, ~170-200hp/s recharge at peak.
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.18 00:49:00 - [69] Edited by: Kamen on 18/08/2007 00:50:30 Edited by: Kamen on 18/08/2007 00:50:06 "Dream EFT pvp max-tanks setups" - All skills maxed, use all T2 (incl rigs), permarun tank as long as cap booster charges hold Goal: Maximize tank. Do not focus on DPS but DPS can not require propuslsion! Drake --- High: Heavies II (Scourge Fury) Med: 3x LSE II, 2x Invulni II, Small Cap booster (50) needed to permarun Lows: SPR II Core Defense Purger IIs -------------------------------- Defense: 997 DPS: 255 Myrmi: --- High: 4x 250mmII 2x 200mm II rails Med: 2x LSE II, 2x Invulni II, Small Cap booster (200) needed to permarun Lows: SPR II Core Defense Purger IIs ---------------------------------- Defense: 888 DPS: 668 with DG AM 604 with DG Iron (prmarun) 779 with Neutrons, DG AM 703 with Neutrons, DG Thorium (permerun) I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! Gallente, balanced as always :) ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.18 01:18:00 - [70] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. I'm sorry, entirely offtopic, but I think that's the most entertaining thing I've seen on the forums. (And yes, I'm a Caldari)
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:22:00 - [71] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Qui Shon Is this a troll? Long range weapon vs shortrange and you're comparing damage? What, pray tell, are you going to not only shoot but actually hit with your medium blasters in missions, when you don't even have an AB? What ammo did you use for your dps number, and what range did you get with that? My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however these are a bit more ignorant and can't normally separate logic from propaganda. I'm sorry, entirely offtopic, but I think that's the most entertaining thing I've seen on the forums. (And yes, I'm a Caldari) I guess I must not be Caldari as I am actually still waiting for someone to make a counter-argument to my claim :P I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:43:00 - [72] Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 03:43:58 Originally by: Kamen I'd take the extra 300% DPS at a cost of 20% tank capability any day! Erm. You seem a bit dense then, let me spell it out for you. "YOUR THEORETICAL DAMAGE WILL NEVER WORK IN AN ACTUAL INGAME MISSION." Myrm tank is arguable better, yes. If your hybrids magically had infinite tracking and range and your drones were unshootable and travel 10km/s to their target then yes. Until these base mechanics change Drake will always be superior in all missions save AFKing em by aggroing room and realeasing drones. Take both these setups out and actually TRY em, then come back and talk about actual ingame stuff, not some random Quickfit bullcrap you've pulled together.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.18 04:11:00 - [73] Edited by: Shiken Kan on 18/08/2007 04:11:32 Edited by: Shiken Kan on 18/08/2007 04:11:01 actually i think the myrmi is way better than the drake, tank is worse, but still good enough and if you fit it right it will outdamage the drake by a nice margin (not 300% tho). oh and i happen to fly it too :D /edit i'm a bit sleepy
ChimeraRouge Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.08.18 04:31:00 - [74] drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship.
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.08.18 06:52:00 - [75] Why would you create an active tank Drake setup and not include a shield booster? No wonder it lost "in every imaginable way." For what it's worth, here's how I active-tanked mine: 7x t2 heavy missile launcher 1 Large Dread Guristas shield booster 1 Dread Guristas EM hardener 1 Dread Guristas Kinetic hardner 1 Dread Guristas thermal hardener 1 t2 large extender 1 free slot (yes, I know, still haven't figured out exactly what I want in here) 1 t2 pdu 1 t2 shield boost amp 1 t2 damage control 1 t2 bcu Dps blows, but it's a Drake. Even without rigs, it tanks very well, though I'd never use it for pvp because I'd rather not lose a whole set of faction shield hardeners.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:18:00 - [76] Originally by: ChimeraRouge drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship. cough cough This topic is about pve. myrmidon with 3 rsd (or 2 rsd + 1 ecm burst) > drake - damp the drake so it will take him 5+ minutes to lock the drone - how about this argument?
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:21:00 - [77] OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. ---
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:23:00 - [78] PvE guys, PvE.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Janus Duo Edited by: Janus Duo on 18/08/2007 00:51:26 This is a much more viable mission setup, won't cap out and actually has the range. Sorry but you're gonna have to use your light drones to kill cruiser and below mission rats, neither your arty nor your sentries will have the tracking to hit anything lower unless you're webbing, and well, you're not. Arties will hit just well if you have distance. Also you should not necessary use mediums, ya know? Originally by: Janus Duo And after 25km or so your guns will be in falloff as well, so the damage will be effectively halved from the guns. 5x 650mm Artillery Cannon II [30xTitanium Sabot M] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I 2x Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II 5x Shield Power Relay II Gyrostabilizer II Rigs : 3x Core Defence Field Purger I 5x Hobgoblin I 4x Warden I ~55% average resist, ~200-230 shields per second at peak. 250-300dps (if you're hitting for full damage, you won't be) Where did you get these numbers from? 4 Warden II's only themself will do about 350 dps - thats without the dps from guns.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:34:00 - [80] Originally by: n0thing OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. You do realize that you will need to dish out about 1-1.2k dps to break the passive shield tanked myrmidon?
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:40:00 - [81] Originally by: Neena Valdi Where did you get these numbers from? 4 Warden II's only themself will do about 350 dps - thats without the dps from guns. I was using Warden Is because using T2 drones in missions is stupid. They just get blown up every few missions, and then you've lost your profit margin. Sentries perhaps could be the exception, but I admit I stopped trying to make a sentry drone domi work well long before the T2 sentry drones came out. Still, your theoretical DPS means crap because they have trouble even tracking slow moving BSes. Good luck even landing a hit on anything smaller. And again, IF YOU HAVE DISTANCE Arties will hit. Too bad you're so slow without propulsion mod (and are having to sit in scoop range of your sentries to protect your shiny T2 investment) that you're not gonna be dictating range at all. And I'd like to see you hit the 50-60km orbiting BSes with small arties.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 07:56:00 - [82] If you get your t2 sentries blown than you need to stop playing EVE :)
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.18 08:16:00 - [83] ôOK Pottsey, you may be an authority on tanks, and that's all well and good. But apparently you have no idea about blasters or drones if you're saying that Ogres travel faster than missiles and aren't susceptible to being popped if not in scoop range. And that you can hit real PvPers with blasters and no MWD.ö Only an authority on passive shield tanks not all tanks. I never once said ogres travel faster then missiles. I said some drones donÆt need to travel like missiles and hit the target right away. I never said you cannot use MWD with blasters for PvP. I said this is a PvE setup thread so MWD is useless as it doesnÆt work for PvE most of the time. I also said railguns work better then blasters for PvE. Due to waves warping in blasters will often be out of range while railguns can shoot. ôI'd say the Drake is much better at tanking and damage than the Myrm at ranges of 25-70km.ö The math says the Myrm has the stronger tank with more HP regen most of the time. ôIf you really want to fully passive tank a Myrm and do damage with no propulsion mod fit projectilesö I use hybrids T2 no problem. But it doesnÆt matter what you fit as the ship has no turret bonus. You can fit propulsion the only reason I dont is I dont see a need for it. ôIt has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range.ö Do you have T4 NPCÆs where you do missions? ôthen compare the damage (and keep in mind someone will need to be dual webbing and target painting for you as sentry tracking SUCKS aö 0.03 is not that bad itÆs almost as good as a large blaster more then enough for PvE. If you need more fit more tracking modules. A Large blaster is only 0.04 Passive shield tanking guide click here
Janus Duo Gallente Psilocybin and Wine Insomnia.	Posted - 2007.08.18 08:43:00 - [84] You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. Also about your tracking figures, anybody that's using large blasters is webbing too. The Mega gets a tracking bonus and doesn't have to worry AS MUCH as other blasterboats, but even it still aways fits a web.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:18:00 - [85] Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 09:19:50 You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. Well if you look at it from my point of view. I said blasters donÆt work as well as railguns in post 4 and MWD doesnÆt work post 59. Then you came along and told me ôBut apparently you have no idea about blasters or dronesö I havenÆt just acknowledged this now I have been saying it since the start. ôI was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there.ö First off Sentries hit small targets fine as long as itÆs not point blank. I kill frigs and cruisers with them same for raliguns. If its long range I hit the target when its close my freind with missiles takes over. Turrets hit frigs for full damage at range unlike missiles. The trick is to drop the sentry 10+km behind you and aggro the rats. The rats come towards you putting your sentry drones at the perfect distance and railguns can kick to life as well as the rats fly in a straight line at you. Target frigs first then move to cruisers and lastly battleships. Once that rats get to you they are still far enough away for the sentry drones to hit. I find when new waves warp in they aggro the closest target so the drones should be ok as your closer to the new wave as long as you placed the drones correctly. It does mean learning the missions though. I donÆt recall saying the Myrmi has better range only that its weapons are not always limited by travel time which is true. The myrim can shoot with drones and turrets and kill a target before missiles hit. If thatÆs case how can we say the Myrin weapons have worse travel time? In my mind thatÆs better travel time for weapons. Part of this problem with this thread is some people are talking about lvl 3 missions and others lvl 4. Some solo, some groups. In lvl 3 I would say the Myrmi is tons faster. In lvl 4 the two ships close up in speed. Personal I think the best option is to have a 2 pair gang one with turrets and one with missiles both with drones and mindlink so both get a large tanking bonusÆs. This way you do missions more then twice as fast as solo so you make more isk. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Broke Armor	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Janus Duo You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. The only enemy my sentries have trouble with are interceptors. They either need to be targetted first to get them playing sitting duck or while mwding towards you or kept to be killed last while you move away from your sentries. The sentries (t1) hit hard enough to 2 volley interceptors in missions or 1 volley if you got the target painted. (with 1 sentry rig) Imaos
Imaos	Posted - 2007.08.18 09:58:00 - [87] Dang shopping alt. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. They're pretty much the same, however t
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.18 13:00:00 - [88] Originally by: Broke Armor Originally by: Janus Duo You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged. I was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there. The only enemy my sentries have trouble with are interceptors. They either need to be targetted first to get them playing sitting duck or while mwding towards you or kept to be killed last while you move away from your sentries. The sentries (t1) hit hard enough to 2 volley interceptors in missions or 1 volley if you got the target painted. (with 1 sentry rig) Imaos same for me, i also instapop any small drone at distance with em, so i really don't know where this hits only bs's comes from.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.08.18 14:39:00 - [89] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: n0thing OP should post with his main, thats first. Give me that shield-tanked Myrmi and I will beat it with even a good Vexor speed setup. It has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. Stop playing with QuickFit and fly a real ship for a change plz. You do realize that you will need to dish out about 1-1.2k dps to break the passive shield tanked myrmidon? I got all the time till DT to get help into system since the above mentioned Myrmidon wont go anywhere. Thats the whole point, you get caught, you wont ever get out unless your near your home systems with reinforcements. Thus setup is not viable for any ranged flights. ---
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.18 14:52:00 - [90] Of course you should not use pve-fitted ships in pvp.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.18 15:57:00 - [91] Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 15:57:08 ôThats the whole point, you get caught, you wont ever get out unless your near your home systems with reinforcements. Thus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö That never happens. Once the NPC catchÆs you it keeps its aggro on you leaving your drones to kill it. As it cannot break your tank itÆs only a matter of time before you win. NPCÆs donÆt fly at 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. So itÆs a not a problem. Your conclusion of ôThus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö is wrong as your looking at a setup for PvE and saying it fails in situations that never happen in PvE. As those situations do not happen it doesnt matter. Passive shield tanking guide click here
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:27:00 - [92] Originally by: ChimeraRouge drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship. We're playing on tranquility, not on paper.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:39:00 - [93] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: ChimeraRouge drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship. We're playing on tranquility, not on paper. Well, my origami Drake schooled an origami Myrmidon using the aforementioned tactic. Hope he had some origami insurance.
Lord Loom Loom Service Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.08.18 23:52:00 - [94] hello, it's a Gallente ship, OF COURSE it's outtanking and outdamaging all other battlecruisers ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
AnKahn Caldari Dark Star LTD	Posted - 2007.08.20 20:05:00 - [95] Can we agree that both the Drake and the Myrm have great tanks, and PvE that is a good thing? Can we agree that the Drake is easier to use? That is not a bad thing. Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod? Is it not already established that Caldari rule PvE and not PvP? As for the Myrm at PvE, yes you can get a dog to walk on 2 legs.
Blood Cultist	Posted - 2007.08.20 21:42:00 - [96] I've used both a heavy missile drake and a rail (armor tanked) Myrm in PvE with similar skills and have found the Myrm allows me to complete missions faster unless I lose drones to random agro. The Drake is easier to fly but that's not worth much to me, knowing which drones to use and when to run one rep or two doesn't require being a genius. In PvP I'll have to comment on what the poster above said: Quote: Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod? Ahahahahaah. Are we playing the same game? The Myrm absolutely schools the Drake in PvP and in a matchup between the two players of equal skill the Drake has next to no chance.
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.20 21:58:00 - [97] Edited by: Neena Valdi on 20/08/2007 22:00:08 Originally by: AnKahn Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod? Do you often meet drakes with scrambler fitted? If he has then his tank is already gimped. :) 1 vs 1 myrmidon hands down beats any battlecruiser... heck, even battleships and even faction battleships! http://kills.cultofwar.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=40618
xenodia Gallente Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.08.20 22:07:00 - [98] Originally by: Caldrinara Yez I quickly threw a fitting together for a drake and a myrm, to compare the two, and the myrm beats the drake in every imaginable way. if someone finds my error, please tell :p fittings with assumed skills all level 5: drake: -hi: - 7 HML II med: -2 LSE II -EM hardener II -Heat Hardener II -EM Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II low: -2 BCS II -2 SPR II Rigs: -Missile Damage I -2 Shield Recharge II -> 374 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 481 DPS Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked) hi: -Med NOS II -5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II med: -2 LSE II -EM Hardener II -Heat Resistance Amp II -Kin Resistance Amp II lo: -5 SPR II -Magstab II Rigs: - 3 Shield Purger II -> 614 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 767 DPS and mind you, this is only for mission running, i know this wouldnt be very viable for pvp ;) Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon. Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles. This signature space for rent
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.21 01:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Janus Duo ... "YOUR THEORETICAL DAMAGE WILL NEVER WORK IN AN ACTUAL INGAME MISSION." Myrm tank is arguable better, yes. If your hybrids magically had infinite tracking and range and your drones were unshootable and travel 10km/s to their target then yes. Until these base mechanics change Drake will always be superior in all missions save AFKing em by aggroing room and realeasing drones. Take both these setups out and actually TRY em, then come back and talk about actual ingame stuff, not some random Quickfit bullcrap you've pulled together. Well first of all, I am stating that drake's tank IS BETTER by 20%. But myrmi's 300% extra damage is insanely higher (in my setup) that even after accounting for misses and such, it severely outdamages the drake. If you think that drake won't get penalized for smaller sig radius of frigates and such, then u should read the missle guide. There's something wrong with that ship, and it ain't the extra slot it gets in addition to the slotless damage. As to your comment, people have tried passive tanked myrmies in missions and claim it to be much better than drake due to better dps. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.08.21 02:00:00 - [100] Originally by: xenodia ... Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon. Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles. Correct. It ain't gonna hold out. I think that the OP posted an unstable fit. My "theoretical" fit "permaruns", though while small charges last (should be pretty long and it is theoretical though and maybe needs smaller hybrid charges to be viable). Check a few pages back. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Tu Madre	Posted - 2007.08.21 02:01:00 - [101] passive tank myrm is freaking amazing ill say that for starters. loved it so much that i halted my training scedual just to train up drones but even with drones at only lvl 3 pretty much accross the board i find that im bringing down battle ships much faster than with my missiles. it flies faster than a drake and so far im really happy with it. i can get 392 hp/sec at peak with only one hardner but that drops back to about 350 with 2 active hardners havent had a problem killing frigs with my heavies - dont know too much about drones yet - learned a lot reading this thread. sentries and long range huh? gunna have to try em out when i get home from work. can tank about 1 doz BS and as many cruisers at once on lvl 4 missions with 2 actrive hardners have found that once the numbers get down its sometimes faster to drop a hardner and fit a AB instead - helps catch pesky BS rats that seem to want to run away. only thing that has beaten my tank so far is enimies abound 5th mission where they changed damage type on my and i wasnt paying attention to the mission notes. i have a corp mate with an officer fitted astart and it didnt break tank - mind you i had specific hardners on an he didnt bring on the dronage the odd 1200 wrecking hit scared me a little bit though hehe. :) loving the myrm - have tried to do the same with a drake but the thing is a slow as a brick in molassis and i dont seem to kill BS mobs quite as fast either with mty heavies. im gunna pick myrm for the win.
Caldrinara Yez	Posted - 2007.08.21 11:33:00 - [102] Originally by: xenodia Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon. Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles. i plan on using projectiles now, and of course tweaked the setup :) i'm quite new and just found this out toying around with some other ships, and was pretty surprised, as everyone i saw claimed the drake to be the best ship, and yelled at me, saying that a drake will always be better than a myrm, and that it wont work etc...well soom i'm gonna find out :)
AnKahn Caldari Dark Star LTD	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:37:00 - [103] To Neena and others, Apparently a member of BOB disagrees with you and I believe he's playing the same game as you even if I'm not. pilot > ship usually. I know this is a PvE thread. However I usually do extensive tank/DPS testing on my ship set ups before I take them into action, either PvE or PvP. I am really noob at PvP, I'll admit. To test a ship I have a helpful corpmate bring his best ship or ships and "duel". For me because I shield tank I lose if my corp mate hits armor. Against an armor tanker I would win if I hit structure. Simple enough test of DPS vs tank and so goes with this thread I feel. With an equal skilled (I have 7 mil SP, 3.5 mil in missiles and the rest in shields and learning, support, etc.) corpmate I repeatedly beat his Myrm, altho like most Gallente he was armor tanked and simply ran out of cap charges. With another Corpmate of similar SP lvl I repeatedly beat his Raven, again he ran out of cap charges as he was, of course, actively shield tanked. Once I dueled a 30 mil SP player and these are the results (don't ask me ships because the age of the player had me spooked). I beat his HAC. He broke my tank with his command ship. They were Gallente I'm sure so should be easy to figure out ships. My tank apparently breaks at above 700 DPS. This is a real number, not the crazy stuff the quick fit warriors throw out. Off topic, drones can be delt with. NOS/drone setups are an absolute joke to me cause my missiles still fire and the NOS boat's DPS is minimal. Damps? Counter, FOF missiles (skilled up of course). And I can fit a scram and a "normal" tank easily. If you all have been reading the forums you know the Drake had a ROF bonus that was removed because it was "an unstoppable killing machine." You Myrm pilots, talking stuff on the forums, will have the nice reward of having CCP remove your drone bonus. Enjoy your ship while you can!
Ceremony Garp	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:07:00 - [104] Originally by: NoNah ... but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap... Ms NoNah, Please name these people, for they are mistaken and are seemingly in need of re-education. I split my time 50/50 between missioning and PVP. I use some of Mr Pottseys fits for PVP and have re-jigged some for my missioning too. I have had a good time PVP'ing in a Drake and a Myrmidon. I've even PVP'ed in a passive Domi and had a helluva time. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won, but each time I was never, ever embarrassed or instapwn'd. Please, by all means disagree with the chap, but there really is no need to post puerile sweeping statements containing vague references to 'some ppl' to reinforce your own subjective viewpoint. It's crass and unfair. If you wish to use other people to reinforce your view and opinion, then please, name them and I'm sure that Mr Pottsey would be glad to discuss the issue with them directly. Regards, Ceremony
Scordite	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:21:00 - [105] This is the correct lvl4 mission passive shield myrm: 5x 650mm II (usually pp, hits decently to 35km) 1x drone link augmentor 1x cn invul (invul II fits, but mission setups should be pimp, ye? - Possibly swap to kin hard for heavy dps guristas missions) 4x lse II 1x power diag II 5x spr II (or best named, but II fits and is cheaper) 3x purger (swap to purger II as wallet allows) 5x ogre II (honestly, just keep your eye on em and spank em if they disobey) 5% shield capacity and recharge hardwires (also possibly med projjie dmg one) Tried and tested. Works like a charm, every single time. Plugging it into EFT gives 1011 defense (1227 with purger II), 571 dps, 65k effective hp buffer zone and 199m/s. Now compare price to drake with similar tank.. Without worrying about the dps. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:06:00 - [106] Originally by: Neena Valdi Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties. No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker. It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.22 00:36:00 - [107] Originally by: Ceremony Garp Originally by: NoNah ... but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap... Ms NoNah, Please name these people, for they are mistaken and are seemingly in need of re-education. I split my time 50/50 between missioning and PVP. I use some of Mr Pottseys fits for PVP and have re-jigged some for my missioning too. I have had a good time PVP'ing in a Drake and a Myrmidon. I've even PVP'ed in a passive Domi and had a helluva time. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won, but each time I was never, ever embarrassed or instapwn'd. Please, by all means disagree with the chap, but there really is no need to post puerile sweeping statements containing vague references to 'some ppl' to reinforce your own subjective viewpoint. It's crass and unfair. If you wish to use other people to reinforce your view and opinion, then please, name them and I'm sure that Mr Pottsey would be glad to discuss the issue with them directly. Regards, Ceremony first, im not nonah, nor an alt of him, srcond i dont know nonah, neither in game nor in real life. if you want to know who thinks these setups (the pvp ones, not the pve ones) are crap, read any thread about pvp fitted passive shield tankers. with crap i didnt mean no fun or explodes after undocking or that they are uninteresting, but just inferior to other setups within the same price range (minmaxer pov if you like) Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Neena Valdi Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties. No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker. It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones. if the drake cares to deal any damage (at least fits one bcu) the myrmi outtanks her. if you use sentries, you dont use medium rails, but something vs frigs, not really rocket scinece. the drake gets a damage bonus for KINETIC damage, every other missile system will deal less, thus it cant adjust damage either.
Seniluoy Gnideef	Posted - 2007.08.22 02:52:00 - [108] So, anyone passive tanked a Hurricane and compared? It's actually quite impressive what you can do...
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:36:00 - [109] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Neena Valdi Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties. No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker. EFT says you are wrong. The shield recharge rate fully compensate lower resists and outtanks the drake in the end. Originally by: Etho Demerzel It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones. You gonna spend much more time shooting BS's in l4's than "frigate and drones" anyways.
Baherroth Gallente Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:34:00 - [110] i cant believe that some ppl in this thread are trying to prove Pottsey wrong , considering it was Pottsey that came up with passive shield tanking and came up with all the formula's and has tested them for ages(years maybe), so don't try and prove her wrong, she knows her stuff
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:48:00 - [111] Originally by: Lord Loom hello, it's a Gallente ship, OF COURSE it's outtanking and outdamaging all other battlecruisers LOL, so true. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.22 13:57:00 - [112] Originally by: Baherroth i cant believe that some ppl in this thread are trying to prove Pottsey wrong , considering it was Pottsey that came up with passive shield tanking and came up with all the formula's and has tested them for ages(years maybe), so don't try and prove her wrong, she knows her stuff i can't believe there are so many illiterates here, it's not about passive tanking, it's about SETUPS. noone said passive tanking in general is nonesense, noone said passive tanks are weak. all i said was that some setups just aren't good, because you shouldn't try to passive tank everything for every occasion. just because pottsey may have invented this, doesn't mean that all setups he/she makes are great.
Trixtina	Posted - 2007.08.22 14:01:00 - [113] Originally by: Pottsey Part of this problem with this thread is some people are talking about lvl 3 missions and others lvl 4. Some solo, some groups. In lvl 3 I would say the Myrmi is tons faster. In lvl 4 the two ships close up in speed. A myrm with sentries and rails beeing faster might be the case in a single pocket mission. For multiple pockets I doubt thats the case. With a drake you warp in, put on your AB and start off for the gate. As soon as the last rat pop, you warp to the next room and so on. Thats rather hard with sentries. And any decent mission runner knows exactly how many volleys of missiles the rats can take so thats hardly a issue vs rails. Anyway I'm off!
Odium47	Posted - 2007.08.22 14:49:00 - [114] If a Drake would ... then a Myrm would ... This type of discussion will never end. For drones always use smartbombs. No drone carrier has any chance against a ship that has a smartbomb on it. This FACT is tested !!! Another thing, Drake uses missiles, which means that it doesnt gives a s*** about range or accuracy. Can fight at any given range. Also it can carry drones, but who needs them ?! Almost forget, did anyone have ever fitted heavy assault launchers ii to see the result ?
AnKahn Caldari Dark Star LTD	Posted - 2007.08.22 16:08:00 - [115] Originally by: Odium47 Almost forget, did anyone have ever fitted heavy assault launchers ii to see the result ? Not yet, so many skills to train. I am seriously going to consentrate on cross training Gallente and Minmatar now I'm up to speed PvE wise. I'd like contribute more to my mates' gangs. That means guns and armor. Drakes are killing more peeps than others will admit to cause who wants to admit they were owned by a Drake?

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