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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.18 15:57:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 15:57:08
ôThats the whole point, you get caught, you wont ever get out unless your near your home systems with reinforcements. Thus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö
That never happens. Once the NPC catchÆs you it keeps its aggro on you leaving your drones to kill it. As it cannot break your tank itÆs only a matter of time before you win. NPCÆs donÆt fly at 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. So itÆs a not a problem.
Your conclusion of ôThus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö is wrong as your looking at a setup for PvE and saying it fails in situations that never happen in PvE. As those situations do not happen it doesnt matter.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.08.18 22:27:00 -
[92]
 Originally by: ChimeraRouge
drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship.
We're playing on tranquility, not on paper.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.18 22:39:00 -
[93]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Originally by: ChimeraRouge
drake > myrmidon ... just pop the myrmidon's drones and then pop the main ship.
We're playing on tranquility, not on paper.
Well, my origami Drake schooled an origami Myrmidon using the aforementioned tactic. Hope he had some origami insurance.
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.08.18 23:52:00 -
[94]
hello, it's a Gallente ship, OF COURSE it's outtanking and outdamaging all other battlecruisers 
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KEEP TRY!!!
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AnKahn
Caldari
Dark Star LTD
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Posted - 2007.08.20 20:05:00 -
[95]
Can we agree that both the Drake and the Myrm have great tanks, and PvE that is a good thing?
Can we agree that the Drake is easier to use? That is not a bad thing.
Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod?
Is it not already established that Caldari rule PvE and not PvP?
As for the Myrm at PvE, yes you can get a dog to walk on 2 legs.
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Blood Cultist
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Posted - 2007.08.20 21:42:00 -
[96]
I've used both a heavy missile drake and a rail (armor tanked) Myrm in PvE with similar skills and have found the Myrm allows me to complete missions faster unless I lose drones to random agro. The Drake is easier to fly but that's not worth much to me, knowing which drones to use and when to run one rep or two doesn't require being a genius.
In PvP I'll have to comment on what the poster above said:
Quote:
Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod?
Ahahahahaah. Are we playing the same game? The Myrm absolutely schools the Drake in PvP and in a matchup between the two players of equal skill the Drake has next to no chance.
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Neena Valdi
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.20 21:58:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Neena Valdi on 20/08/2007 22:00:08
Originally by: AnKahn
Can we agree that when a Drake and a Mrym meet, the better pilot flys away in his ship and not his pod?
Do you often meet drakes with scrambler fitted? If he has then his tank is already gimped. :) 1 vs 1 myrmidon hands down beats any battlecruiser... heck, even battleships and even faction battleships! http://kills.cultofwar.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=40618
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xenodia
Gallente
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.20 22:07:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Caldrinara Yez
I quickly threw a fitting together for a drake and a myrm, to compare the two, and the myrm beats the drake in every imaginable way.
if someone finds my error, please tell :p
fittings with assumed skills all level 5:
drake:
-hi:
- 7 HML II
med:
-2 LSE II
-EM hardener II
-Heat Hardener II
-EM Resistance Amp II
-Kin Resistance Amp II
low:
-2 BCS II
-2 SPR II
Rigs:
-Missile Damage I
-2 Shield Recharge II
-> 374 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 481 DPS
Myrm: (yes, it is shieldtanked)
hi:
-Med NOS II
-5 Heavy Neutron Blaster II
med:
-2 LSE II
-EM Hardener II
-Heat Resistance Amp II
-Kin Resistance Amp II
lo:
-5 SPR II
-Magstab II
Rigs:
- 3 Shield Purger II
-> 614 Sustained Defence Efficiency / 767 DPS
and mind you, this is only for mission running, i know this wouldnt be very viable for pvp ;)
Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon.
Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles.
This signature space for rent |
Kamen
SRBI
Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.08.21 01:57:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Janus Duo
...
"YOUR THEORETICAL DAMAGE WILL NEVER WORK IN AN ACTUAL INGAME MISSION."
Myrm tank is arguable better, yes. If your hybrids magically had infinite tracking and range and your drones were unshootable and travel 10km/s to their target then yes. Until these base mechanics change Drake will always be superior in all missions save AFKing em by aggroing room and realeasing drones.
Take both these setups out and actually TRY em, then come back and talk about actual ingame stuff, not some random Quickfit bullcrap you've pulled together.
Well first of all, I am stating that drake's tank IS BETTER by 20%. But myrmi's 300% extra damage is insanely higher (in my setup) that even after accounting for misses and such, it severely outdamages the drake. If you think that drake won't get penalized for smaller sig radius of frigates and such, then u should read the missle guide.
There's something wrong with that ship, and it ain't the extra slot it gets in addition to the slotless damage.
As to your comment, people have tried passive tanked myrmies in missions and claim it to be much better than drake due to better dps.
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Kamen
SRBI
Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.08.21 02:00:00 -
[100]
Originally by: xenodia
...
Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon.
Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles.
Correct. It ain't gonna hold out. I think that the OP posted an unstable fit. My "theoretical" fit "permaruns", though while small charges last (should be pretty long and it is theoretical though and maybe needs smaller hybrid charges to be viable). Check a few pages back.
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Tu Madre
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Posted - 2007.08.21 02:01:00 -
[101]
passive tank myrm is freaking amazing ill say that for starters. loved it so much that i halted my training scedual just to train up drones but even with drones at only lvl 3 pretty much accross the board i find that im bringing down battle ships much faster than with my missiles. it flies faster than a drake and so far im really happy with it.
i can get 392 hp/sec at peak with only one hardner but that drops back to about 350 with 2 active hardners
havent had a problem killing frigs with my heavies - dont know too much about drones yet - learned a lot reading this thread. sentries and long range huh? gunna have to try em out when i get home from work.
can tank about 1 doz BS and as many cruisers at once on lvl 4 missions with 2 actrive hardners have found that once the numbers get down its sometimes faster to drop a hardner and fit a AB instead - helps catch pesky BS rats that seem to want to run away. only thing that has beaten my tank so far is enimies abound 5th mission where they changed damage type on my and i wasnt paying attention to the mission notes.
i have a corp mate with an officer fitted astart and it didnt break tank - mind you i had specific hardners on an he didnt bring on the dronage the odd 1200 wrecking hit scared me a little bit though hehe. :)
loving the myrm - have tried to do the same with a drake but the thing is a slow as a brick in molassis and i dont seem to kill BS mobs quite as fast either with mty heavies.
im gunna pick myrm for the win.
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Caldrinara Yez
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Posted - 2007.08.21 11:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: xenodia
Myrmidon will have faster regen than a drake, but weaker resists. This has been common knowledge for some time with regards to passive tanking a myrmidon.
Also if you are going for a passive myrm, you wont have any cap to run those blasters for very long. Consider using projectiles.
i plan on using projectiles now, and of course tweaked the setup :)
i'm quite new and just found this out toying around with some other ships, and was pretty surprised, as everyone i saw claimed the drake to be the best ship, and yelled at me, saying that a drake will always be better than a myrm, and that it wont work etc...well soom i'm gonna find out :)
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AnKahn
Caldari
Dark Star LTD
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Posted - 2007.08.21 17:37:00 -
[103]
To Neena and others,
Apparently a member of BOB disagrees with you and I believe he's playing the same game as you even if I'm not. pilot > ship usually.
I know this is a PvE thread. However I usually do extensive tank/DPS testing on my ship set ups before I take them into action, either PvE or PvP. I am really noob at PvP, I'll admit.
To test a ship I have a helpful corpmate bring his best ship or ships and "duel". For me because I shield tank I lose if my corp mate hits armor. Against an armor tanker I would win if I hit structure. Simple enough test of DPS vs tank and so goes with this thread I feel.
With an equal skilled (I have 7 mil SP, 3.5 mil in missiles and the rest in shields and learning, support, etc.) corpmate I repeatedly beat his Myrm, altho like most Gallente he was armor tanked and simply ran out of cap charges. With another Corpmate of similar SP lvl I repeatedly beat his Raven, again he ran out of cap charges as he was, of course, actively shield tanked.
Once I dueled a 30 mil SP player and these are the results (don't ask me ships because the age of the player had me spooked). I beat his HAC. He broke my tank with his command ship. They were Gallente I'm sure so should be easy to figure out ships. My tank apparently breaks at above 700 DPS. This is a real number, not the crazy stuff the quick fit warriors throw out.
Off topic, drones can be delt with. NOS/drone setups are an absolute joke to me cause my missiles still fire and the NOS boat's DPS is minimal. Damps? Counter, FOF missiles (skilled up of course).
And I can fit a scram and a "normal" tank easily.
If you all have been reading the forums you know the Drake had a ROF bonus that was removed because it was "an unstoppable killing machine."
You Myrm pilots, talking stuff on the forums, will have the nice reward of having CCP remove your drone bonus. Enjoy your ship while you can!
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Ceremony Garp
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Posted - 2007.08.21 20:07:00 -
[104]
Originally by: NoNah
... but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap...
Ms NoNah,
Please name these people, for they are mistaken and are seemingly in need of re-education.
I split my time 50/50 between missioning and PVP. I use some of Mr Pottseys fits for PVP and have re-jigged some for my missioning too.
I have had a good time PVP'ing in a Drake and a Myrmidon. I've even PVP'ed in a passive Domi and had a helluva time. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won, but each time I was never, ever embarrassed or instapwn'd.
Please, by all means disagree with the chap, but there really is no need to post puerile sweeping statements containing vague references to 'some ppl' to reinforce your own subjective viewpoint. It's crass and unfair. If you wish to use other people to reinforce your view and opinion, then please, name them and I'm sure that Mr Pottsey would be glad to discuss the issue with them directly.
Regards,
Ceremony
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Scordite
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Posted - 2007.08.21 20:21:00 -
[105]
This is the correct lvl4 mission passive shield myrm:
5x 650mm II (usually pp, hits decently to 35km)
1x drone link augmentor
1x cn invul (invul II fits, but mission setups should be pimp, ye? - Possibly swap to kin hard for heavy dps guristas missions)
4x lse II
1x power diag II
5x spr II (or best named, but II fits and is cheaper)
3x purger (swap to purger II as wallet allows)
5x ogre II (honestly, just keep your eye on em and spank em if they disobey)
5% shield capacity and recharge hardwires (also possibly med projjie dmg one)
Tried and tested. Works like a charm, every single time.
Plugging it into EFT gives 1011 defense (1227 with purger II), 571 dps, 65k effective hp buffer zone and 199m/s.
Now compare price to drake with similar tank.. Without worrying about the dps.
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The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag:
Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente
Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2007.08.21 22:06:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Neena Valdi
Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties.
No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker.
It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.08.22 00:36:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Ceremony Garp
Originally by: NoNah
... but some ppl actually don't like pottseys fits and jfyi some even say they're crap...
Ms NoNah,
Please name these people, for they are mistaken and are seemingly in need of re-education.
I split my time 50/50 between missioning and PVP. I use some of Mr Pottseys fits for PVP and have re-jigged some for my missioning too.
I have had a good time PVP'ing in a Drake and a Myrmidon. I've even PVP'ed in a passive Domi and had a helluva time. Sometimes I lost, sometimes I won, but each time I was never, ever embarrassed or instapwn'd.
Please, by all means disagree with the chap, but there really is no need to post puerile sweeping statements containing vague references to 'some ppl' to reinforce your own subjective viewpoint. It's crass and unfair. If you wish to use other people to reinforce your view and opinion, then please, name them and I'm sure that Mr Pottsey would be glad to discuss the issue with them directly.
Regards,
Ceremony
first, im not nonah, nor an alt of him, srcond i dont know nonah, neither in game nor in real life.
if you want to know who thinks these setups (the pvp ones, not the pve ones) are crap, read any thread about pvp fitted passive shield tankers.
with crap i didnt mean no fun or explodes after undocking or that they are uninteresting, but just inferior to other setups within the same price range (minmaxer pov if you like)
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Neena Valdi
Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties.
No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker.
It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones.
if the drake cares to deal any damage (at least fits one bcu) the myrmi outtanks her.
if you use sentries, you dont use medium rails, but something vs frigs, not really rocket scinece.
the drake gets a damage bonus for KINETIC damage, every other missile system will deal less, thus it cant adjust damage either.
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Seniluoy Gnideef
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Posted - 2007.08.22 02:52:00 -
[108]
So, anyone passive tanked a Hurricane and compared?
It's actually quite impressive what you can do...
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Neena Valdi
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.08.22 09:36:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Neena Valdi
Sigh... Qui, the Myrm still outdps and outtanks the Drake with t2 sentries and rails / arties.
No it does not out-tank the drake. It may have a bigger shield recharge rate, but it has much lower resistances and therefore loses shield hp much quicker.
EFT says you are wrong. The shield recharge rate fully compensate lower resists and outtanks the drake in the end.
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
It does not outdamage the drake as well in most cases in pvE, because it can adjust only part of its damage types and both sentries and rails have considerable tracking issues against close range frigates and drones.
You gonna spend much more time shooting BS's in l4's than "frigate and drones" anyways.
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Baherroth
Gallente
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2007.08.22 10:34:00 -
[110]
i cant believe that some ppl in this thread are trying to prove Pottsey wrong , considering it was Pottsey that came up with passive shield tanking and came up with all the formula's and has tested them for ages(years maybe), so don't try and prove her wrong, she knows her stuff |
Wrayeth
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.08.22 10:48:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Lord Loom
hello, it's a Gallente ship, OF COURSE it's outtanking and outdamaging all other battlecruisers
LOL, so true. 
-Wrayeth
n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Shiken Kan
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Posted - 2007.08.22 13:57:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Baherroth
i cant believe that some ppl in this thread are trying to prove Pottsey wrong , considering it was Pottsey that came up with passive shield tanking and came up with all the formula's and has tested them for ages(years maybe), so don't try and prove her wrong, she knows her stuff
i can't believe there are so many illiterates here, it's not about passive tanking, it's about SETUPS.
noone said passive tanking in general is nonesense, noone said passive tanks are weak. all i said was that some setups just aren't good, because you shouldn't try to passive tank everything for every occasion.
just because pottsey may have invented this, doesn't mean that all setups he/she makes are great.
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Trixtina
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Posted - 2007.08.22 14:01:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Pottsey
Part of this problem with this thread is some people are talking about lvl 3 missions and others lvl 4. Some solo, some groups. In lvl 3 I would say the Myrmi is tons faster. In lvl 4 the two ships close up in speed.
A myrm with sentries and rails beeing faster might be the case in a single pocket mission. For multiple pockets I doubt thats the case. With a drake you warp in, put on your AB and start off for the gate. As soon as the last rat pop, you warp to the next room and so on. Thats rather hard with sentries. And any decent mission runner knows exactly how many volleys of missiles the rats can take so thats hardly a issue vs rails.
Anyway I'm off!
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Odium47
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Posted - 2007.08.22 14:49:00 -
[114]
If a Drake would ... then a Myrm would ...
This type of discussion will never end.
For drones always use smartbombs. No drone carrier has any chance against a ship that has a smartbomb on it. This FACT is tested !!!
Another thing, Drake uses missiles, which means that it doesnt gives a s*** about range or accuracy. Can fight at any given range.
Also it can carry drones, but who needs them ?!
Almost forget, did anyone have ever fitted heavy assault launchers ii to see the result ?
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AnKahn
Caldari
Dark Star LTD
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Posted - 2007.08.22 16:08:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Odium47
Almost forget, did anyone have ever fitted heavy assault launchers ii to see the result ?
Not yet, so many skills to train. I am seriously going to consentrate on cross training Gallente and Minmatar now I'm up to speed PvE wise. I'd like contribute more to my mates' gangs. That means guns and armor.
Drakes are killing more peeps than others will admit to cause who wants to admit they were owned by a Drake?
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