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smoogie
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:26:00 -
[1]
What is the worst battleship in Eve?
The nominees are:
Apocalypse
Scorpion
Typhoon
Apoc -- Horrible damage, horrible fitting problems, slow, mediocre tank
Scorpion -- Nerfed to near uselessness after the ECM nerf.
Typhoon -- Split weapons system/low damage.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:33:00 -
[2]
Typhoon is the worst. Not enough cpu/grid for decent setups, split weapon systems suck, low armor, no tanking bonus.
Apocalypse has decent niche setups like the neut Apoc. It's not worthless. It also does more damage than Typhoon so it's strictly better than it.
Scorpion is not bad. You're on ***** if you think ECM and the Scorpion are bad.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:33:00 -
[3]
Hmmm...
Hype: Awesome tank, decent gank
Mega: Awesome gank, decent tank
Domi: Awesome tank, bad gank, and WTFBBQIMBA Nos.
Rokh: AWESOME tank, ok gank, and excellent sniper
Raven: WTFBBQIMBA PVE. Pretty bad in PVE, but ok as an armor tanker
Scorpion: WTF? Its awesome if you fit it right. I've won numerous engagements with a scorpion by my side (because of the scorpion).
Mael: Excellent tank, pretty good gank
Pest: eeeexccllleeent ship.
Phoon: Its the fastest battleship.. and you say it sucks? O_o
Abbadon: Excellent tank and gank. Has cap issues. =(
Apoc: Uh... overwhelmingly my choice for crappy battleship of the year award
Geddon: Pretty darn good gank, uh, pretty poor tank tho.
Just my personal opinions. I start to get hazy around certain Minnie BS and Amarr BS.
Liang
Yarr? |
6Bagheera9
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:35:00 -
[4]
Typhoon just needs mad skillz in order to shine. It could use its base armor and shield HPs switched though.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 24/08/2007 18:44:26
 Originally by: smoogie
Apoc -- Horrible damage, horrible fitting problems, slow, mediocre tank
Scorpion -- Nerfed to near uselessness after the ECM nerf.
Typhoon -- Split weapons system/low damage.
I can understand the Apoc being on the "bad list" (It is pretty bad).
But the scorpions only problem is that people always primary it since it's annoying as hell and has a pretty poor tank when ECM fitted (it can be tanked well, but then you're just a tank and not anything else).
...and the typhoon? The typhoons only problem is that it requires excellent skills in navigation, projectiles, missiles and drones (and a few other areas).
It has the lowest mass and highest base speed of all battleships. It has a relatively large dronebay. It has one of the fastest locking speeds of any battleship. Those facts alone gives it a lot of potential if you're willing to do something other than standing still and slugging it out.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:51:00 -
[6]
The Typhoon does less DPS than the friggin Apocalypse and has a far worse tank. 4 ACs and 4 siege launchers eats up pretty much all of its powergrid, so you have to downgrade to 650mm ACs and cruise missiles just to be able to fit anything else.
It needs grid rigs for a gank fit and therefore it can't passive tank with plates and trimarks. Plus its armor HP is ridiculously low to start out with. It can't active tank at all, no grid for reppers + MWD + injector.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.24 18:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xequecal
The Typhoon does less DPS than the friggin Apocalypse and has a far worse tank. 4 ACs and 4 siege launchers eats up pretty much all of its powergrid, so you have to downgrade to 650mm ACs and cruise missiles just to be able to fit anything else.
It needs grid rigs for a gank fit and therefore it can't passive tank with plates and trimarks. Plus its armor HP is ridiculously low to start out with. It can't active tank at all, no grid for reppers + MWD + injector.
Its true... I noticed it was really hard to fit a decent setup on a phoon because of powergrid. I wouldn't object if they decided to boost the PG on the Phoon and Domi. ^_^
Liang
Yarr? |
Neo Providence
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xequecal
Typhoon is the worst. Not enough cpu/grid for decent setups, split weapon systems suck, low armor, no tanking bonus.
Apocalypse has decent niche setups like the neut Apoc. It's not worthless. It also does more damage than Typhoon so it's strictly better than it.
Scorpion is not bad. You're on ***** if you think ECM and the Scorpion are bad.
Its only bad cuz your a noob. this baby is for the pros.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Neo Providence
Originally by: Xequecal
Typhoon is the worst. Not enough cpu/grid for decent setups, split weapon systems suck, low armor, no tanking bonus.
Apocalypse has decent niche setups like the neut Apoc. It's not worthless. It also does more damage than Typhoon so it's strictly better than it.
Scorpion is not bad. You're on ***** if you think ECM and the Scorpion are bad.
Its only bad cuz your a noob. this baby is for the pros.
I can make stupid baseless comments with no backup too. Next you'll be telling me the Nightmare is amazing if you "got l337 skillz."
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Testosterone Bomb
Red Ballz
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:30:00 -
[10]
Xequecal
Cool post to put out there.
But about the Typhoon , its not your normal BS, unlike the normal Turret , Missile and Drone BS you will face , this has it all in one. That plus its ability to dictate range is pretty deadly. Also when you figure your DPS you need to include the T2 Drones that a Typhoon will field in Battle plus the fact that its faster then the other ships so it can not only dictate range but it can also create tracking issues for those BS that are Gun Boats.
But like some others said , Typhoon could use some tweeks , I would give it a 10% boost to power grid and change its bonus from 5% to 7.5% for each of the 2 weapon types (Only effects 4 max slots each so its not out off line with other bonuses) if I had my way.
Peace
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:50:00 -
[11]
Phoon is imbawin with good skills :)
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:56:00 -
[12]
Typhoon is a great battleship. You just need to have:
T2 large ac
T2 Torp
T2 Ogre II
AWU 5 (for fitting)
It can do some really substantial damage in a variety of ways, with a variety of damage types, with a decent tank. No, it won't beat gank setups as far as raw dps but it's a very good ship in the hands of a competent pilot.
Scorp would be good if speed>>>>>>range right now.
Apoc just sucks. It's not even a good mining bs anymore lol.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:57:00 -
[13]
You do realize this ship in a full gank fit does about half the damage of the Armageddon, while simultaneously tanking far less damage and having like half the range? The Tempest is also better than it in every conceivable way.
Seriously, the only decent way to fit the Typhoon was 4 guns + 4 NOS or 4 launchers + 4 NOS, and they just nerfed that.
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mlyp
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nyxus
Apoc just sucks.
Much like your posting.
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Testosterone Bomb
Red Ballz
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:04:00 -
[15]
Hey there Xequecel formally of Adeptus Gattecus / Presdium Libertatis.
Like Nyxus of Razor said above there are other fits that a player can use then the Typhoon NOS variation. Thing is that Typhoon is a pretty decent small gang boat plus if you want you can use it in level 4 mission area.
Peace
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyxus
Typhoon is a great battleship. You just need to have:
T2 large ac
T2 Torp
T2 Ogre II
AWU 5 (for fitting)
It can do some really substantial damage in a variety of ways, with a variety of damage types, with a decent tank. No, it won't beat gank setups as far as raw dps but it's a very good ship in the hands of a competent pilot.
Scorp would be good if speed>>>>>>range right now.
Apoc just sucks. It's not even a good mining bs anymore lol.
Nyxus
Fitting 4x 800mm II and 4x Siege II on the Typhoon leaves you with 1088 PG left, and consumes over half your CPU. You CAN'T active tank, as you need 2 grid rigs just to get MWD + Injector on there, leaving you no grid for large reppers.
This FORCES you to passive tank with plates as then you can skip the injector However you don't do that well either because of your very low armor HP, rig slots taken up by grid rigs instead of trimarks, and fitting plates removes your speed advantage. Oh, and you can't even do the standard passive fit of 2 plate, 3 damage mod, EANM, DCU because you run out of CPU. You have to drop down to 0 CPU platings or faction platings just to get it to fit with web + scram.
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Rexy
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:09:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rexy on 24/08/2007 20:14:50
My gripes with the typhoon are
1 dependance on drones
Whith near max skills a dual 425/cruise or 425/siege setup does 350 to 400 dps according to eft(using faction ammo). T2 ogres nearly double that damage output by adding roughly 300-350 dps depending on how good your skills are. However unlike the dominix, these drones are easier to destroy, and we cant carry a backup set. So the best way to half a typhoon's damage output is to get to it's drones fast.
2 It is forced to tank.
While you can stack damage mods, the increase in damage is pretty low, since each damage mod only affects 50% of the high slots. You can stack 2 sets of damage mods 3 times for a nice damage output, but you still have delayed damage due to drones and missile use. A neutron mega gank setup would provide similar if not better damage and be much more surviveable because it can fit additional plates and hardening mods where the second set of 3 damage mods go on a typhoon.
4. It has no grid to tank
Try to fit the lowest tier 425 and cruise, then fit an mwd and heavy cap booster and realize you need a rig upgrade to cram on 2x large reppers. It gets worse with siege's, but i suppose that is the tradeoff for bigger weapons. Dual 650's and 800's are really not an option unless you fit speed rigs wich require little pg.
5 no space to carry ammo
Many times the low damage output has been cited as the reason for minmatar's ability to vary damage output. While this is nice for pve where you can choose damage types before hand this does not work for pvp.
If you want to carry 16 cap mods using a med can you can carry just about enough for a full reload and maybe half a reload of another damage type.As far as drones go you can choose to fit a set of 5 heavy's and 10 smalls, or 10 meds, or forgo heavy's in general. But given that the damage output from ogre's is vital for the overal dps of the ship that isnt really an option.
what to change
1 First and foremost i'd like to see the shield/armor stats switched. It is not a shield tanker, and the stats should reflect that.
2 I'd like a bigger cargo space to allow for carrying different types of ammo. It has a similar cargo space to other types of bs's which only have to carry ammo for one gun type and cap boosters.Therefore increasing the cargo space to 700 or better doesnt seem to be out of line.
3 What limits this ships damage output is grid, a phoon cant fit 800's and siege's with a proper tank, which i suppose is balanced. however i would like to see the grid changed a little to at least allow us to fit the lower tier weapons along side an mwd/cap booster and a dual repper setup without requiring grid mods. This because it's intended role appears to be to tank and go fast, or tank lightly and go even faster.
4 An alternative to upping the grid is upping the damage modifiers since it only has one damage mod on each of it's highslots.Because of it's ****ty grid it is still impossible to make a true monster out of it by fitting a full on gank, a fit i believe is still outperformed by a gank mega or domi setup.(if people work out the numbers plz posts those too, to my recollection a phoon stops just shy of 1k dps in full gank without any plates bar a damage control, where a mega/domi are well above that).
edit: the best i can get out of typhoon is 720 dps with lvl4 skills and faction ammo while tanking 800 or so dps, this with a current rig and 2x pump rigs, and 2x med cap boosters because of grid issue's, so no webber and scram setup with that,thought it was with a 100mn AB instead of mwd too, need to drop to a large/med repper to fit 100mn mwd
edit2: i'm going off the top of my head here, feel free to correct my numbers if they are too far off
<unusual big structure 4tw> |
Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:17:00 -
[18]
Typhoon, the worst battleship? 
Scorpion? Maybe the worst solo...
Apoc definitely.
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Proud Amarr pilot.
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Dreadpilot Roberts
New Balkan Mafia
Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:26:00 -
[19]
now apoc ... yeah it sux. But phoon is the fastest cheap BS ( macha not included :) It can still reach up to 6km/sec and that speed tank is just awesome if u have nice skills and fit, u need many vagas or ceptors to bring it down, or at least 1 huginn with a couple of 90% webs. And scorp is an invaluable addition to any gang man ... just get electronic skills up a lil bit, throw a couple of rigs onto it and it can still perma jam ships most of the time.
P.S. Apoc really does suck badly tho :(
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Cilppiz
Minmatar
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:32:00 -
[20]
Typhoon is fine ship, it just needs bit more (read as: virtually skills to fly Tempest, Domi and Raven) SP's to fly than normal BS.
And I would not call 700dps without damagemods from AC II's, Cruise II's and Orge II alone low, sure it eint Blasterthron but still.
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:33:00 -
[21]
Typhoon is for the pros. If your skills aren't top notch, or you have no imagination in ship fitting, don't fly it. Its that simple.
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Dreadpilot Roberts
New Balkan Mafia
Circle 0f Two
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:42:00 -
[22]
actually if I recall a phoon pilot mocked us once cuz he was following us and we were in a 40 man blob, the guy had no trouble whatsoever keeping up with us and splitting ceptors apart from the group and popping them with drones. We lost 2 ceptors that night to him ( we didnt have any minnie recons with us boo-hoo  )
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Riho
Magnificent Beavers
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:44:00 -
[23]
ppl saying raven is bad for pvp make me laugh my ass off :P
i love raven as pvp ravens :)
---------------------------------------
Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it
Great being Gallente... aint it ?
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YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:51:00 -
[24]
Raven is great for PVP if you have a couple of smaller ships with you. That being said, any other battleship is even better usually.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.08.24 20:58:00 -
[25]
My vote goes for Apoc, I really havent seen much of those ever in no-sec.
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smoogie
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:11:00 -
[26]
Votes so far:
Apoc - 5
Typhoon - 2
Scorpion - 1
(I vote Scorpion - laughable dps, slow, inferior jammer power than a Rook, and lost a lot of potential with the ECM nerf)
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: n0thing
My vote goes for Apoc, I really havent seen much of those ever in no-sec.
It used to be a decent platform for a Tachyon sniper (with better grid and more mids than the Armageddon), but it seems that the Abaddon (improved grid, damage, armor and sensor range) replaced it in that role.
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
Blood Cultist
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:23:00 -
[28]
Has to be the Apoc.
Scorpion would be great if it weren't paper thin and had such low sig res... But in the right conditions it can be devastating. Typhoon is an amazing ship, though I agree about its grid being a major pain. Raven, damage is so so but damp setups are fun and effective.
Apoc, it can uh... tank? So can the Don while doing much more.
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ForeverKnight
Caldari
World Order
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:24:00 -
[29]
Edited by: ForeverKnight on 24/08/2007 21:24:20
If you think the Scorpion sucks you have no imagination. One of the best uses I've seen for it is to put an _insane_ shield tank on it, and plate the lowslots. If you're in a gang of 10 people, you will always be called primary and then it'll take them 5 minutes to kill you while the rest of the gang pwns. Also with good-perfect skills the ECM "nerf" becomes an ECM buff for dedicated ECM ships.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ForeverKnight
If you think the Scorpion sucks you have no imagination. One of the best uses I've seen for it is to put an _insane_ shield tank on it, and plate the lowslots. If you're in a gang of 10 people, you will always be called primary and then it'll take them 5 minutes to kill you while the rest of the gang pwns. Also with good-perfect skills the ECM "nerf" becomes an ECM buff for dedicated ECM ships.
SShh! You're giving them ideas to compensate for a lack of imagination 
______________________________________________
-You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
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