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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Masu''di on 02/09/2007 20:46:38 This is an official statement from Hedonistic Imperative, to clarify the situation surrounding our match with Mercenary Coalition, and any misunderstandings there may be as a result. I believe the eve community has a right to know and see what our chatlogs showed.
Understandably some of our members are a little angry and dissapointed about the events regarding our fight against Mercenary Coalition, and have been asked not to vent this on the forums anymore. We would also like to apologies to EveTV, for destroying their luxury yacht, it was not them that made any referee decision, or were in communication with us about when the match should start. I hope you can understand the ammount of frustration and anger our pilots were under.
So here are the simple chatlogs from our gang and local, it's upto you to make your mind up. I have changed the GM names in order not to break any forum rules. If a moderator feels that this post is breaking any rules, please inform me so. Here is a chatlog from our gang while we were waiting in position at the battle arena 2 beacon. I should point out that our match was scheduled at 19:00 GMT.
[ 2007.09.02 18:54:47 ] GM A > REMEMBER: When you get to the arena, do not move around at all, you do so under threat of point penalties. [ 2007.09.02 18:56:25 ] Khamiz > your station has a cool name [ 2007.09.02 18:56:57 ] GM A > we brainstormed for 3 days to look for the perfect name [ 2007.09.02 18:57:08 ] GM A > then had some administrative meetings [ 2007.09.02 18:57:11 ] Khamiz > can i warp to it for a second after this please? [ 2007.09.02 18:57:19 ] Khamiz > just to have a look [ 2007.09.02 18:57:22 ] GM A > finally some went out for a smoke and settled on that [ 2007.09.02 18:57:29 ] DamienUPB > nice [ 2007.09.02 18:57:36 ] GM A > if your very very fast [ 2007.09.02 18:57:42 ] Khamiz > ty :) [ 2007.09.02 18:57:51 ] Ja'Anarria > what BS do i damP? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:32 ] GM A > good luck guys, kill em all [ 2007.09.02 18:59:50 ] Khamiz > do our best :) Now we look at the local chat.
[ 2007.09.02 18:48:06 ] EVE System > Channel changed to RU-97T Local Channel [ 2007.09.02 18:54:28 ] GM B > MC STOP MOVING [ 2007.09.02 18:55:42 ] GM C > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:21 ] GM C > 3 minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:58:11 ] GM C > 2 minutes [ 2007.09.02 18:59:09 ] GM C > 1 minute
Going quickly back to gang chat, GM A sends us our good luck message.
[ 2007.09.02 18:59:32 ] GM A > good luck guys, kill em all
Meanwhile GM C starts a countdown in local. 21 seconds before our match is supposedly scheduled.
[ 2007.09.02 18:59:39 ] GM C > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:45 ] MC Pilot A > is that until match start for us or match end for them?
I thought he was taunting us at the time, implying we were going to die very swiftly. He was probably a little confused too. No GM answered his question.
[ 2007.09.02 19:00:01 ] GM C > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 19:00:03 ] GM C > 9 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:04 ] GM C > 8 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:05 ] GM C > 7 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:06 ] GM C > 6 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:07 ] GM C > 5 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 4 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:10 ] GM C > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:12 ] GM C > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:14 ] GM C > STOP!
I first thought it was a joke, or something had gone wrong. 9 out of 10 pilots held fire. One pilot sent two volleys of cruise missile before he realised to stop. So a little later the result appears in local,
[ 2007.09.02 19:08:22 ] GM C > Hedonistic Imperative forfeit the match for starting the fight early
Es and Whizz is recruiting |
RogueWing
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:46:00 -
[2]
At what point was the decision made to attack the camera ship and why?
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:48:00 -
[3]
there was no official decision to attack a camera man, this happened some minutes after we had been informed of the GM decision.
Es and Whizz is recruiting |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:51:00 -
[4]
[ 2007.09.02 18:55:42 ] GM C > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:21 ] GM C > 3 minutes left
[ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:10 ] GM C > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:12 ] GM C > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:14 ] GM C > STOP!
These here are your clues that he wasn't telling you to start fighting. I'm sorry you guys made a mistake or that there was a misunderstanding, but dear lord take it like adults.
You made a mistake in internet spaceships (and it was your pilot's mistake, not anyone elses), laugh it off and move on. ------
Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts! |
Cabre
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:52:00 -
[5]
Isn't it against the rules to post GM logs? BTW you guys are almost as bad as goons maybe you should join them
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Avalira
Caldari Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:52:00 -
[6]
Yeah, not a very clear situation. I would have liked for the match to go ahead with the maulus replaced. Unfortunatly it's a bit late now so I feel really sorry for you guys, we were all waiting for this match.
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RogueWing
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Masu'di there was no official decision to attack a camera man, this happened some minutes after we had been informed of the GM decision.
Honestly, that is where your Alliance lost it's credibility.
While I can certainly understand the confusion over the timing of the match, the destruction of the camera ship was a premeditated attack that was most certainly not a mistake on the part of the aggressor. Your alliance pilot made the decision to attack a neutral party just because he was upset about the decision.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Masu'di [ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:10 ] GM C > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:12 ] GM C > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:14 ] GM C > STOP!
I first thought it was a joke, or something had gone wrong. 9 out of 10 pilots held fire. One pilot sent two volleys of cruise missile before he realised to stop. So a little later the result appears in local,
[ 2007.09.02 19:08:22 ] GM C > Hedonistic Imperative forfeit the match for starting the fight early
Actually 19 out of 20 pilots (assuming MC had 10 pilots but you get the point) withheld fire.
Sorry one of your pilots was so jacked up he felt a second or two to think about it would make a difference.
I can see how that is not overly clear and a mistake could be made but only ONE pilot actually did so apparently MOST people were clued in. Had both you and MC started at each other then that would be different. But it did not happen that way.
Stinks to be sure. I wanted to see the fight as I am sure many others did and of course all the work you all put into it makes it downright painful.
But the rule was broken and there was really no other decision the GMs could have come to.
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 20:57:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Masu''di on 02/09/2007 20:58:45
Originally by: Patch86 [ 2007.09.02 18:55:42 ] GM C > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:21 ] GM C > 3 minutes left
[ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:10 ] GM C > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:12 ] GM C > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:14 ] GM C > STOP!
These here are your clues that he wasn't telling you to start fighting. I'm sorry you guys made a mistake or that there was a misunderstanding, but dear lord take it like adults.
You made a mistake in internet spaceships (and it was your pilot's mistake, not anyone elses), laugh it off and move on.
or 5 minutes left before our match started, it is very easy to look at it both ways. we were not aware that there was another match going on. perhaps we should have been informed there would be a short delay?
Es and Whizz is recruiting |
Cabre
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:01:00 -
[10]
Look I'll be nice. You posted GM logs, you shot the camerman in-game. Be glad your entire team aren't forum banned or in-game banned. The blame lies 100% on you and I think MC should've been given more points for having to sit through the ordeal.
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ForceM
Gallente POS Builder Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cabre Look I'll be nice. You posted GM logs, you shot the camerman in-game. Be glad your entire team aren't forum banned or in-game banned. The blame lies 100% on you and I think MC should've been given more points for having to sit through the ordeal.
There actually not GM logs .. there open convo's (gang and local)
So there actually aint no reason to even blank out the GM names. Even more .. the names have been shown in other topics already.
Besides that ... there is indeed a bit of confusion if the shooter was actually right (to make that mistake) or not.
BIG grey area ... might need a rematch.
-----
Quote:
Dun kill me eris
coming to fanfest by any chance? eris
*GULP*
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h But the rule was broken and there was really no other decision the GMs could have come to.
I think this deserves expanding on too since I have seen many posts where people think the fight should have been allowed to proceed.
First off I doubt any of us has a clue how easy it is for the Devs to spawn a ship. Maybe it is a simple press of a button...maybe it takes something more. I have no idea. But more than the ship are all its fittings. So not only do they need to spawn a ship but they would need to know, for certain, what all the mods were on that ship and spawn those along with the ship. They have a schedule to keep and I am betting doing all that is not a matter of a snap of Dev magic and it all just happens.
Second, assume the GMs did say, "Eh...honest mistake. We'll respawn the ship." They have now set a precedent. Move forward to (for example) a BOB v. GOON match. While waiting for the match to start one or the other zaps an opponent's ship and goes, "Oops". Because the precedent was set the Devs would have to sort it out. Can you imagine the **** storm that would ensue from that? It could quite easily throw the tournament into chaos.
In the end the forfeit was the ONLY appropriate response. Stinks to be sure but I cannot see how anyone could see it otherwise.
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:18:00 -
[13]
they should repeat the fight, the situation was apparently not very clear.
then, ban them from the tourney for shooting the camera man ____________________________________________
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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William DeMeo
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:18:00 -
[14]
109 Yarr |
Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter they should repeat the fight, the situation was apparently not very clear.
then, ban them from the tourney for shooting the camera man
punish a whole alliance for 1 guy that cant stand hisself ? comeone ...
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: RogueWing
Originally by: Masu'di there was no official decision to attack a camera man, this happened some minutes after we had been informed of the GM decision.
Honestly, that is where your Alliance lost it's credibility.
While I can certainly understand the confusion over the timing of the match, the destruction of the camera ship was a premeditated attack that was most certainly not a mistake on the part of the aggressor. Your alliance pilot made the decision to attack a neutral party just because he was upset about the decision.
Come off it, you guys would waste GMs could you any given day of the week.
Also Known As |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:35:00 -
[17]
Sounds pretty lame. Congrats on the Yacht kill.
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:36:00 -
[18]
this is unfortunate situation.
I am sure the GMs dont take decisions lightly.
Hedonistic Imperative are not the only people to have lost out from this, they are however the only ones at fault.
MC did get to have a fight they had trained for, and no doubt would have won.
The community did not get to see the fight and instead have to listen to more forum whining. -
Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:38:00 -
[19]
Really a hard one... Who to blame for miscommunication, the speaker or the listener?
Sounds more and more like someone is lacking the proper ingame tools for running a tournament.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Arbius V'Talik
No Trademark The OSS
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Masu'di Edited by: Masu''di on 02/09/2007 20:46:38 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:07 ] GM C > 5 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 4 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:09 ] GM C > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:10 ] GM C > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:12 ] GM C > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:14 ] GM C > STOP!
This was the best clue. I cant ever recall starting anything with the command 'STOP!'.
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Sarchez
Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:42:00 -
[21]
Easy to see how it could be misunderstood and a mistake like that could happen. (Maybe have another system as "prep-system" until the former fight has finished ?)
Either way, grats on the yacht kill - that's so much sweeter than a tourney fight anyway
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TigerWoman
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:47:00 -
[22]
i think the decisions are a little harsch.
goons messed up by bringing to much points: -> solution: kick one RANDOM ship out you guys shot a guy in the heat of the incoming battle with confusing commands and we know that a volley of missiles shot before you got dampened can decide a match ( esp. with all this damp and missile stuff goin on on the tournament - 5 maulus anyone? ) -> solution: respawn that ship by a gm/ or ban a random ship of equal or more points from your team.
that would penalice you but wont kick you out directly.
and btw: jamesw is the best commentator around there.
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:51:00 -
[23]
solution - obey the rules. -
Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:54:00 -
[24]
Sorry about the match, hed. Was looking forward to see it. This entire tournament has been sloppy from the get go. The GM's seemed to be confused at times, and having 4 teams in the two arenas at the same time is just asking for trouble. 4 teams , 2 fights, 1 local = not good. Anyways I hope you fare well in your upcoming matches. Good luck to you
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Local Her0
Minmatar La Mancha Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:59:00 -
[25]
pretty much every partie made a mistake there by the looks of it
Hedonistic Imperative -> instapop a ship on countdown zero (u should get a medal for that actualy also nice yacht kill which should have been unlockable? allight!)
MC -> move after beeing told not to move
Camaraman -> didn't tell gm he relogged
GMs -> don't ECM Burst as usual? not informating parties that the fight is delayed
at the end Hedonistic Imperative gets a penalty
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SATAN
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:02:00 -
[26]
Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that everyone was confused about the countdown, you are still over looking one crucial mistake in your reasoning.
The GM never said "GO", which means your pilot was trying to anticipate the word go and you should receive a DQ.
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DonCare
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: SATAN Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt that everyone was confused about the countdown, you are still over looking one crucial mistake in your reasoning.
The GM never said "GO", which means your pilot was trying to anticipate the word go and you should receive a DQ.
This is true although how many people would fall for the good ole 3 2 1 1/2 0 trick, I'm guessing quite a few. Also with sensor boosted sb's and everything already clicked to be applied to first lock as soon as you click on overview it is instant lock and fire. Don't know what else to say.
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Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:34:00 -
[28]
during both our fights i only just waited for the word go, on our second fight there was actually what seemed to me (tripping out from nerves?) a longer gap between the 1 and the go and i nearly just went before the gun in fear of somebody else doing it. I think nerves got the better of somebody and instead of the gms doing something to prevent it they just sat by while typing a few lines of text and waited for it to unravel infront of them. After all the delays i think they could have helped them reset it all back up. Maybe this was them saying sorry for blowing up mcs raven? ---
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Local Her0 Edited by: Local Her0 on 02/09/2007 22:04:41
pretty much every partie made a mistake there by the looks of it
Hedonistic Imperative -> instapop a ship on countdown zero (u should get a medal for that actualy also nice yacht kill which should have been unlockable? allright!)
Hardly a medal. Just standard tactics...trying to get the shot off before the Maulus damped him into oblivion
Quote: MC -> move after beeing told not to move
Got this one backwards. I cannot speak for the GMs but apparently MC was moving and was told to stop and they did. The GMs have said this has happened many times with many teams. Apparently as long as those moving stop when told to stop the GMs let it slide. Whether you agree with that policy or not it seems they have applied it the same to numerous teams and not just MC.
Quote: Camaraman -> didn't tell GMs he relogged
Maybe but the camerman attack was after the forfeit anyway and near as I can tell HI has not been penalized in any way for that. Besides...who knew the ship would be targettable when the camerman DQed? Doubtless he just figured not to bother anyone and go for a quick relog. Either way it changes nothing near as I can tell besides opening HI to endless flames on the forums.
Quote: GMs -> don't ECM Burst as usual? not informing parties that the fight is delayed
They do ECM Burst at the start. This is another clue to the players that the fight had not actually started yet. As for being delayed a few minutes yeah...would have been good had they done that. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that...
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:52:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Owi on 02/09/2007 22:52:17
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs On your marks..
Get Set...
STOP
better wouldt be swing yellow flags or bring out the saftycar, not pulling out the black one
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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