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Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
165
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Posted - 2012.01.18 10:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.
"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus." |
Calistai Huranu
Gaping Axe Wound Promotions
16
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Posted - 2012.01.18 10:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
HAM drakes will be the new standard. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
178
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Posted - 2012.01.18 10:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Calistai Huranu wrote:HAM drakes will be the new standard.
It'll be just like 2007-2008 again.  |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
79
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well I'm a Caldari pilot, and I loves me some drakes.
The change from resist to velocity makes a lot of sense-Puts them in line with the other missile boats, and puts there tank closer to the other T2 battle cruisers.
I think this would help push people in to using it for offence and using the Ferox for defence.
Now if they got rid of the Myrm's rep bonus for say hybrid damage and pushed its drones up to 100-125bandwith we would have use a solid set of tier 2's. |
Calistai Huranu
Gaping Axe Wound Promotions
16
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Calistai Huranu wrote:HAM drakes will be the new standard. It'll be just like 2007-2008 again.
But with more deeps, longer range, and quieter lowsec. |
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
cool stuff in my book. but there will be a lot of younger players cursing ccp for that. |
Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
165
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I wonder what kind of tank the drake could get without the resist bonus.
Would it still be viable as a lvl 4 missioner?
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
79
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:I wonder what kind of tank the drake could get without the resist bonus.
Would it still be viable as a lvl 4 missioner?
Probly be fine with an AB and nanos, as to kite the BS's well you kill the BC's and down. |
Elistea
G U N G N I R
Y G G D R A S I L
31
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Posted - 2012.01.18 11:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Make drake with 5% cap bonus to lazors and 5% kinetic dmg bonus to smartbombs. Disco-lazor drakes ftw!!! |
vorneus
Hub2
56
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Posted - 2012.01.18 13:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm not too fussed about the changes - I don't like flying Drakes and probably still won't after this change (if it goes through).
My main concern is with how it will affect the viability of other ships with a missile velocity bonus like the Cerb, and to a lesser extent the Sacrilege. How it might tread on the Cerb's toes is obvious, what with the current state of on-grid warping/probing and the improved range it would have. The Sac issue is less obvious, as it's rarely a go-to ship for HAMs at the moment anyway, but will be even less so following a change like this.
-Ed |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
85
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Posted - 2012.01.18 13:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
I hate flying Drakes (inb4 -A- & Drake joke) |
JunkRaider
JunkRaider Corp
9
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Posted - 2012.01.18 15:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
I call BS. Leave it as it is. Most of the peeps that complain about it don't even use it. |
Munio J Makeanen
United Starbase Systems
3
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Posted - 2012.01.18 15:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up
If they do not change the stupid em resist hole across the board it is a very bad decision.
If they do this Nerf the dam Hurricane as well |
Liam Mirren
185
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Posted - 2012.01.18 15:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hurricane is also in need of a nerf but the Drake getting rebalanced is a necessity and actually, it's not really a nerf anyway.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. |
Brother Galladrinal
Havoc Violence and Chaos
BricK sQuAD.
3
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Posted - 2012.01.18 15:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
More damage on a Drake? Where do I sign?!!!  |
Goose99
707
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Posted - 2012.01.18 15:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Hurricane is also in need of a nerf but the Drake getting rebalanced is a necessity and actually, it's not really a nerf anyway.
Winmatar shall never be nerfed |
SpaceSquirrels
254
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Posted - 2012.01.18 16:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
WHAT THE **** WHAT AM I GOING TO SEMI AFK LVL 3's or SLEEP LVL 4's IN NOW!!! NOT THE DRAKE!!!
WHY!!! |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
82
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Posted - 2012.01.18 16:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
SpaceSquirrels wrote:WHAT THE **** WHAT AM I GOING TO SEMI AFK LVL 3's or SLEEP LVL 4's IN NOW!!! NOT THE DRAKE!!!
WHY!!!
its ok space squirrels you can still orbit at 150 of a large collidable object and pass out. |
Theodemir
Nemesis Holdings Corp
Luna Sanguinem
19
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Posted - 2012.01.18 16:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do hope these changes go through, buffed HAM Drakes has great appeal.  |
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
REN0VATI0
11
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Posted - 2012.01.18 17:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Please, no.
I think the Drake is overrused for a reason : people need a tanky BC. Because they lack skills, because they can't afford or fly something better, because they want to try more difficult pve (WH etc) or try PVP and actually stay on the field long enough to learn something.
Give players more options for these roles, and options that do not require spending billions or training for centuries. Or leave the Drake as it is. Want a DPS BC ? Fly a cane, it's what it's made for.
Missile velocity bonus REALLY ? Does this game needs another bonus that will go to waste if you have to fit HMs ? At the very least, make HAMs worth using if you're forcing us to. In their current state they suck hard, the added DPS over HMs does not nearly justify their many drawbacks.
The good point is that if this goes live I'll save a lot of money... flying caracals instead of that lame amputee draek. |
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Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
77
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Posted - 2012.01.18 17:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
*shrug*
there are more important ship rebalances imo before the drake |
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
REN0VATI0
11
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Posted - 2012.01.18 17:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:*shrug*
there are more important ship rebalances imo before the drake
^ this, too. |
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Brilliant idea ! Please take the only shield-tank BC, (cyclone ? is that a ship ?) and turn it into another weak lolHAMs gank boat.
Honestly I am disappointed. Finding a nerf should be easy for CCP, they have shown they know how to make a ship suck. |
Lili Lu
137
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Munio J Makeanen wrote:Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up
If they do not change the stupid em resist hole across the board it is a very bad decision.
If they do this Nerf the dam Hurricane as well
Hmm, so you posted this on your 2-month old alt. But I have to wonder whether your main is any older.
Drakes do everything, what is wrong with that?
Of course no other ships have resist holes. It is a travesty that an altered drake won't have a resist bonus to plug the em hole. That would surely make it uniquely bad. And where are the mods that can rectify this. Please keep the Drake the same as it currently is. Games should be easy, that is what makes them enjoyable. I don't want to think that my ship could ever die 
/end sarcasm
As for the Hurricane, how do you propose to nerf it? It's not enough to pout about the nerf to your favorite toy and cry for Jimmy's toy to also get nerfed. Come up with some ideas. |
Lili Lu
137
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Brotha Umad wrote:Brilliant idea ! Please take the only shield-tank BC, (cyclone ? is that a ship ?) and turn it into another weak lolHAMs gank boat.
Honestly I am disappointed. Finding a nerf should be easy for CCP, they have shown they know how to make a bad ship.
It appears you missed Ytterbiums post in the long thread in general discussion. Go find it. They are finally maybe going to do something about tier 1 BCs and Cruisers. Instead of just a Drake you may have other options such as a Cyclone if you want to fly shield and missiles.
edit- oh and the Hurricane is usually shield tanked btw even though it has only 4 mids and no em resist bonus. |
Drake McCann
EVE University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
No, nO, NoO and NOOO
I did not switch to caldari and name my character "Drake" to play the Drake with the resistance bonus taken out and as an offensive boat.
I like it as it is, a tank for pve ..
Seriously no, don't do this. |
Lili Lu
137
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Drake McCann wrote:No, nO, NoO and NOOO
I did not switch to caldari and name my character "Drake" to play the Drake with the resistance bonus taken out and as an offensive boat, I like it as it is, a tank for pve ..
Seriously no, don't do this.
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Kaede Kimura
Epsilon Inc
STORM.
10
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh the EFT warrior tears... I look forward to "omg drake is an infinite range pwnmobile!" threads if the changes go through. Yeah you lose some tank, but you'll sing a different tune when drakes are hitting your weakest resist for maximum damage every time.
At least wait for the changes to go live before starting the threads. |
Tsai Ashitaka
Aether Ventures
Surely You're Joking
3
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus.
Yeah, because the Caracal and Raven are so regularly seen in PvP ops.
The drake may be a jack of all trades, but it is a master of none. If you're doing L4s in a drake, it's suboptimal. If you're doing small gang pvp in a drake, you're missing out on the dps and maneuverability of smaller, faster cruisers. If you're doing large scale fleet pvp in a drake, you're missing out on instantaneous damage and high alpha strikes.
The drake performs well in many roles, but there are ships that can perform vastly better in each one. Changing the bonuses to fall into line with two of the least used pvp ships will almost completely eliminate the Caldari lineup from pvp.
One of the biggest complaints about heavy missiles is its incredible damage projection. Why on earth would CCP propose increasing its range further? |
Lili Lu
137
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tsai Ashitaka wrote:Quote:CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus. Yeah, because the Caracal and Raven are so regularly seen in PvP ops. The drake may be a jack of all trades, but it is a master of none. If you're doing L4s in a drake, it's suboptimal. If you're doing small gang pvp in a drake, you're missing out on the dps and maneuverability of smaller, faster cruisers. If you're doing large scale fleet pvp in a drake, you're missing out on instantaneous damage and high alpha strikes. The drake performs well in many roles, but there are ships that can perform vastly better in each one. Changing the bonuses to fall into line with two of the least used pvp ships will almost completely eliminate the Caldari lineup from pvp. One of the biggest complaints about heavy missiles is its incredible damage projection. Why on earth would CCP propose increasing its range further?
The Naga has no resist bonus, yet it is getting some use in pvp. The Mael has no resist bonus . . .
The Caracal get's little use because it is a cruiser. Cruisers appear headed for a buff. This should in theory help everybody and increase diversity in the game.
The Raven suffers from cruise missile extreme delayed damage aversion as far as large fleet pvp. For close range and smaller scale pvp torp Ravens are still possible.
The missile velocity bonus is probably being proposed for the benfit of HAM usage. The bonus could go largely wasted on HM if you continue to view it as a range buff unless you sacrifice a mid to sensor booster, which further cuts into tank. You can't have everything. Alternately, HMs already can get more range than other Medium weapons, so a slight HM range nerf may be part of the balancing changes. This has been hinted at in the past. I think the velocity buff is more for reducing delayed damage aversion, not for providing range that is largely useless with the probing mechanics being what they are now.
Instant damage in current drake blobs does not matter, because the entire fleet is damage delayed. Will drakes not be seen anymore? I doubt it. One could foresee trully mixed shield BC fleets. Honestly, delayed damage on missiles is not such a big deal if the entier fleet is in closer.
I don't know why people are not looking at changes as an opening to more interesting gameplay. I would really love to see fewer monoculture fleets and more thematic fleets that include entire ship classes in them. Drake blobs, Baddon blobs, Mael blobs, all sorta boring. Nice to see with Hybrid buff that Mael blobs are becoming more loosely Mael and Rokh. Would be good to see Baddons mixed with a Gallente ship as well.
There appear to be more ship changes coming than just a Drake nerf. People should seriously wait to see what hits the test server. If the Drake becomes equivalent to a current prophecy then commence the outrage, and I'll be there right with you. However, it seems finally that CCP has put some serious effort into ship balancing and we may get a set of very interesting and good ship changes. Be optimistic. Afterall, hasn't just train a Drake been pretty boring? |
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