HAM drakes will be the new standard.

It'll be just like 2007-2008 again.

I wonder what kind of tank the drake could get without the resist bonus.
Would it still be viable as a lvl 4 missioner?

Hurricane is also in need of a nerf but the Drake getting rebalanced is a necessity and actually, it's not really a nerf anyway.

WHAT THE **** WHAT AM I GOING TO SEMI AFK LVL 3's or SLEEP LVL 4's IN NOW!!! NOT THE DRAKE!!!


WHY!!!

*shrug*
there are more important ship rebalances imo before the drake

Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up

If they do not change the stupid em resist hole across the board it is a very bad decision.

If they do this Nerf the dam Hurricane as well

Brilliant idea ! Please take the only shield-tank BC, (cyclone ? is that a ship ?) and turn it into another weak lolHAMs gank boat.

Honestly I am disappointed. Finding a nerf should be easy for CCP, they have shown they know how to make a bad ship.

No, nO, NoO and NOOO

I did not switch to caldari and name my character "Drake" to play the Drake with the resistance bonus taken out and as an offensive boat, I like it as it is, a tank for pve ..

Seriously no, don't do this.

CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus.

Yeah, because the Caracal and Raven are so regularly seen in PvP ops.

The drake may be a jack of all trades, but it is a master of none. If you're doing L4s in a drake, it's suboptimal. If you're doing small gang pvp in a drake, you're missing out on the dps and maneuverability of smaller, faster cruisers. If you're doing large scale fleet pvp in a drake, you're missing out on instantaneous damage and high alpha strikes.

The drake performs well in many roles, but there are ships that can perform vastly better in each one. Changing the bonuses to fall into line with two of the least used pvp ships will almost completely eliminate the Caldari lineup from pvp.

One of the biggest complaints about heavy missiles is its incredible damage projection. Why on earth would CCP propose increasing its range further?

Disagree
Drake is one of the only viable ships in the Caldari Line up

Edit: Double DPS (5% Rof and 5% kinetic) bonuses.

So basically, it'll be even better for gang blobs and marginally worse at pve. Op success.

The Naga has no resist bonus, yet it is getting some use in pvp. The Mael has no resist bonus . . .

The Caracal get's little use because it is a cruiser. Cruisers appear headed for a buff. This should in theory help everybody and increase diversity in the game.

The Raven suffers from cruise missile extreme delayed damage aversion as far as large fleet pvp. For close range and smaller scale pvp torp Ravens are still possible.

The missile velocity bonus is probably being proposed for the benfit of HAM usage. The bonus could go largely wasted on HM if you continue to view it as a range buff unless you sacrifice a mid to sensor booster, which further cuts into tank. You can't have everything. Alternately, HMs already can get more range than other Medium weapons, so a slight HM range nerf may be part of the balancing changes. This has been hinted at in the past. I think the velocity buff is more for reducing delayed damage aversion, not for providing range that is largely useless with the probing mechanics being what they are now.

Instant damage in current drake blobs does not matter, because the entire fleet is damage delayed. Will drakes not be seen anymore? I doubt it. One could foresee trully mixed shield BC fleets. Honestly, delayed damage on missiles is not such a big deal if the entier fleet is in closer.

I don't know why people are not looking at changes as an opening to more interesting gameplay. I would really love to see fewer monoculture fleets and more thematic fleets that include entire ship classes in them. Drake blobs, Baddon blobs, Mael blobs, all sorta boring. Nice to see with Hybrid buff that Mael blobs are becoming more loosely Mael and Rokh. Would be good to see Baddons mixed with a Gallente ship as well.

There appear to be more ship changes coming than just a Drake nerf. People should seriously wait to see what hits the test server. If the Drake becomes equivalent to a current prophecy then commence the outrage, and I'll be there right with you. However, it seems finally that CCP has put some serious effort into ship balancing and we may get a set of very interesting and good ship changes. Be optimistic. Afterall, hasn't just train a Drake been pretty boring?

So they are going to nerf the only Caldari ship that is used consistently.

all these frigging rail boats are worthless. we got the raven and drake for missions. that is the only advantage Caldari have. all of our other ships have other racial counter parts that are more desirable in pvp.

you my friend are so completely wrong it is amazing. off the top of my head: rokh, scorp, naga, drake (still after nerf), tengu (should count as a few ships since it can be fit so many different ways), blackbird, falcon, rook, widow, manticore, cormorant, kitsune, crow, hawk, harpy, flycatcher, cerb, moa, nighthawk, and any one i can't think of are very pvp worthy. leaving out navy ships too.

and if you really want a heavy missile slinging heavy tank pve boat, get a nighthawk or tengu. they are both better than the drake even now. CNR, SNI, or Golem all are great PvE boats too, same with the Rokh, but from the sould of things you haven't crosstrained out of missiles at all, which is your fault.

i'm tired of people saying caldari can't pvp. i won't even get into ecm either...

What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."

The Mael has no resist bonus . . .

So you all think it's a fine idea to nerf the drake because it's PASSIVE shield regeneration is just too much... Guess you never experienced the PASSIVE SHIELD Myrmidon. It's better than the Drake's.

HAM geared drake should get a slight PG buff if that's going to be the new shape of it
do an equal CPU nerf if must be.

No, it's right the reverse - HAM-tailored drake should get a PG/CPU reduction in order to make it even more interesting fitting-wise, so that people start actually doing some trades rather than getting everything as granted.

Agreed, drakes being easy to fit is unique to that ship. Certainly not a well known aspect of another entire race's entire lineup.

just a little side comment, i'm pretty sure it's not... but either way, they are changing/tweaking/nerfing (w/e u want to call it) the myrm too. i don't know exact details, but don't compare a purposed ship change against a ship that is also getting tweaked before the change.

such as a Cyclone if you want to fly shield and missiles.

Yeah you lose some tank, but you'll sing a different tune when drakes are hitting your weakest resist for maximum damage every time.

if these changes did go through, i may actually allow drakes back in my fleets, then they may actually be able to do something good for once insted of just dieing VERY slowly.

Well At least it will be a better PVE boat.

But for PVP it will be useless with the EM Hole.

There is this thing called EM hardener, try using one sometime.

Obviously you dont know much about drakes, and there is no need in being a jerk...thank you

What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."

Ok fine whatever the drake is getting a little bit of a nerf. The thing that bothers me is the amount of other ships that seriously need to be fixed and buffed first. Why is CCP trying to fix things that arnt broken???????

Fine then, EM rig.

Drake broke the entire game tho.

Hellcats are getting whacked by the nerf bat as well. 100mn AB needs to go at the very least. and Caldari need a full redesign, which will probably come with the new missiles. most people dont give a fuk about the nullsec meta. most pvp'ers dont use it, just the monkeys in the major alliances. alpha fleets have always been around, so thats nothing new.

Drakes and Canes broke the entire game for MOST people, which was well outlined by one of the devs. no reason to fly HAC's, t1 cruisers, CS's, etc. when you can just fast track to a tier 2 BC.

There is plenty of reason to fly HACs. BCs can't replace HACs for the majority of roles that HACs are used for. The only HACs that are "replaced" by BCs are the ones that are just bad in their own right; the Eagle and the Sacrilege, and to a much lesser extent now, the Deimos.

im telling you the nerf is coming, because no cruiser should be able to fit 100mn AB's. the Tengu is a stupidly OP and broken ship, and it's only a matter of time before CCP sees it.

HACs are only viable for AHAC fleets. to narrow it down even more, only the Zealot is viable for AHAC fleets (maybe Deimos now as well). all the other HAC's are useless compared to tier 2 BC's. tier 3's happily took over the sniping role of the other HAC's. the Eagle is a fuckin joke, and Vagas dont exist any more as they've been replaced by the Cynabal faceroll.

The Sacrilege is only considered bad because it's a brawler and tier 2 BCs do this slightly better for less ISK. Similar situation with the Deimos.

im telling you the nerf is coming, because no cruiser should be able to fit 100mn AB's. the Tengu is a stupidly OP and broken ship, and it's only a matter of time before CCP sees it.

HACs are only viable for AHAC fleets. to narrow it down even more, only the Zealot is viable for AHAC fleets (maybe Deimos now as well). all the other HAC's are useless compared to tier 2 BC's. tier 3's happily took over the sniping role of the other HAC's. the Eagle is a fuckin joke, and Vagas dont exist any more as they've been replaced by the Cynabal faceroll.

Plus you could put AMLs on them as well if the bonus applied to light missiles too, and boatmurder pretty much any frigate class ships on the battlefield.

The range bonus would also make the HML Drake an even more effective large fleet ship than it already is.

Anything but this.

-The Caracal already does the exact same thing,
-This game does not need another frig killer setup, especially not on a hull nearly everybody has in hangar,
-T1 cruisers may finally be getting love, it is not the time to steal the Cal's niche. If some ship ever has to steal it, please make it a destroyer.


How ?
Serious question.

Awesome, exactly what I would've done. I just hope the Hurricane nerf isn't too far off this.

HAM drakes will be the new standard.

HAM Drakes have kicked ass since I started EVE 4 years ago. I however welcome the ROF bonus in place of the kinetic one.

Taking away the resistance bonus strikes me as somewhat silly though. Wonder if they did it becasue of PVE balancing in a PVP game?

im telling you the nerf is coming, because no cruiser should be able to fit 100mn AB's. the Tengu is a stupidly OP and broken ship, and it's only a matter of time before CCP sees it.

HACs are only viable for AHAC fleets. to narrow it down even more, only the Zealot is viable for AHAC fleets (maybe Deimos now as well). all the other HAC's are useless compared to tier 2 BC's. tier 3's happily took over the sniping role of the other HAC's. the Eagle is a fuckin joke, and Vagas dont exist any more as they've been replaced by the Cynabal faceroll.

Exactly; HACs "should" use their superior speed and agility (and range) to dictate the terms of the engagement. It's not that the Sac and the Deimos are obseleted by the BCs, it's that they fail to obselete BCs. A cruiser shouldn't be a better straight up face-to-face slugger than a battlecruiser.

The Eagle is just dreadful though, and it should be completely reworked from scratch. My personal preference would be to make it the one Caldari ship that can go at a decent speed for its class.

I don't see the problem. Cruisers that fit 100mn ABs are extremely cumbersome with gimped fits, hilariously poor agility, and generally overall slower performance than if they'd just MWD nano'd it. The trade off is that they're immune to scrams. I think its a totally legitimate tradeoff to make.

-Liang

the only cruiser causing an issue is the Tengu. it just happens that the 100mn AB Tengu isnt gimped in any way, and has no weaknesses.

Let me tell you about PL's Ishtar fleet

I think you're smoking something really strong if you don't think that the range bonus Drake is going to obsolete the Cerb and quite possibly the Navy Caracal. Its plenty fast enough to nano, has a drone bay, and has just more overall DPS. Furthermore, it doesn't address why people don't like the Nighthawk to begin with.... its ****** power grid.

-Liang

Let me tell you about PL's Ishtar fleet

Malcanis has been pretty much on the money here. The nacal, cerb, and NH are already obsolete and need their own workups. I have no idea what you're on about.

You can't use the Drake for sniping as you can the Cara, NCara, and Cerb. Now you'll be able to and the Drake will be flat superior at all conceivable use cases for all the ships. Also I tremendously respect Malcanis but he's not right here. :)

-Liang

The new Drake wont obselete the Cerb any more than the Tengu already has. The Cerb is still supreme in it's niches of really long range DPS and also AML Frigate killer. Admittedly limited niches, but they still belong to the Cerb for now

The Cerb is still supreme in it's niches of really long range DPS

AML Frigate killer

Malcanis - I'm not arguing against the change to the Drake. I'm arguing that:
- The missile speed bonus isn't such a great idea. It means that almost no matter what they do they can't fix the Cerb and NCara and Cara.
- The NH is obsolete all on its own even without the Drake "eclipsing" it.

I'd say the proper course of action is to boost the grid on the NH (and probably several other Caldari missile ships) and then adjust base statistics on the Drake until its no longer the "do everything" ship. It would also be ideal if they gave the Eagle, Cerb and NCara a 25m^3 drone bay - something to offset the new Tier 3s putting such a dent in the sniping niche.

Also, increasing mobility of the Cerb and NCara would be swell. Think Navy Osprey mobility. :)

-Liang

If shooting missiles at 200km and then waiting 2 days for them to hit was a nich+¬, the Raven would be a useful PVP ship.


Frigate killer is a role dozens of ships can fill - a lot of them significantly cheaper than a Cerberus.

Why would anyone use the Eagle over the Naga?

Paint-chipping DPS at extreme range wasn't something that anyone cared about even before the Naga with it's useful DPS at extreme range appeared. IMO the Eagle should be completely repurposed. As I said before, I'd like it to be the Caldari speed ship. We should get at least one.

navy osprey! too bad it literally can't do anything well...

Edit: Note, that if I ever die to a Navy Osprey, as it is now, in an actual fight, I will quit Eve.

I wonder what kind of tank the drake could get without the resist bonus.
Would it still be viable as a lvl 4 missioner?

i have never considered the drake to be a viable level 4 mission runner

I think most of the complaints are from people who use drakes for lvl 4 missions.
But imo, it's a BC and shouldn't do lvl 4 missions at all, and the new RoF bonus would make it a MUCH better lvl 3 missioner due to increased dps and selectable damage types.

What most people don't realize including CCP obviously the Drake gives new players an IN to PVE and PVP. Don't whack the drake because of blob fleets it is dumb. New players can have relative fun with a drake, they will spend half a year to do better. Drake is a great entry level ship and even odds against players like me with 50+ million SP. If you make it obsolete like the Eagle and Cerb (which takes HUGE amounts of training) you will bar new players from being capable and wanted.

in Eve you need an niche and the drake is it for 3 month old players

Funny all those ELITE SO CALLED PVP'er are afraid of a passive tanked BC.

Drake PVE stuff

The funny thing is that with the proposed changes ....................................................................................................................... Intresting wall of text .

You really don't know much about missiles, do you?

GǪand to be fair, it will still be able to do L4s just fine GÇö it'll just tank a bit worse than the Myrm, that's all (until/unless they adjust its tank as well).

In that they would be able to hit >5km/s ceptors instead of not being able to at all.

On the other hand, its "DPS tank" will be significantly improved. And it's range tank. NewDrake will actually be much more effective against EM rats because it'll be able to use Thunderbolts at full efficiency instead of taking a 20% DPS hit for using non-Kinetic, and it'll be able to use them far outside the effective range of the Sansha/Blood lasers anyway. Put a 10MN AB/2x LSE/ Invuln II/2x Photon II in the mids, rejoice in your 33% DPS boost, and you'll be just fine doing Pirate Invasion or Sansha Blockade or whatever.

God forbid that missioners actually have to spend a few minutes per mission actually piloting their damb ship in return for a whopping ISK/hr boost.

What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."

BEcause drake dont need RANGE buf ......... HMLs are 70km - ok , HAMs are 14kms , its OK because you still NEED scr+web... soo one bonus is waste = nerf....

yeaa... i never fly a single drake.... and you? yes , it maybe help fleet HAM drake..... Hmm , no its a lie, nobody flew a a fleet HAM drake...soo?

What a load of crap. "Newbie ship" is not a role. You seem to think that the Drake immediately stops being useful once the pilot gains a few SP - no, actually, it's quite the opposite. In the hands of someone with higher SP the Drake goes from "good" to "hilariously OP".

Pretty much.

Active-Drake was a hell of a lot better than passive-Drake before for missions, and if this change makes people switch over to those kinds of fits, they'll discover the joys of not sitting still. Hell, if you dump the extenders and go for a shield-booster fit (because why not GÇö you're stuffing it full with cap-drawing equipment anyway, so you might as well go all the way), you'll notice that it's actually small enough a ship to speed-tank NPC battleships, even before you even consider trying to outrange them. It seems people have gotten so used to it being a 4-500m sigres turtle that those aspects of the ship have gone almost completely unnoticed.

The more I think about it, the more obvious the buff status of the proposed change becomes.

give drake another PG boost +150 PG...... and it ill be "ok"...

use smartbombs vs ecm drones , oh wait you dont want to loose dps ... kinda stupid thing as you say you are jammed a lot by those , i quess 7 turret (not jammed) does more dps than 8 turret jammed , but it is your call

I'm talking about making solo PvP fun, if you engage superior numbers you need your full DPS capabilities. The battleship was an example, but of course I'm talking about BCs, and Drakes since this is what this thread's suppose to be about. Fact is EC300s jam way too often, and the jam cycles are way too long. IMO 300s should be something of a gamble for whoever choses to use them, something like "will I get my 2 jam cycles or won't I?", while atm its not even a question. The sad thing about it, is that if indeed the situation is a solo fight on a gate, the ECM drones just make the opponent deagress and leave the fight... These drones just take away from the general enjoyment of small scale PvP, that is my opinion.

I'm not saying ECM drones are bad. I'm just saying... Leave my Drakes alone! :-) And if you feel the need to nerf something, take it out on the ECM drones.

I'm talking about making solo PvP fun, if you engage superior numbers you need your full DPS capabilities. The battleship was an example, but of course I'm talking about BCs, and Drakes since this is what this thread's suppose to be about. Fact is EC300s jam way too often, and the jam cycles are way too long. IMO 300s should be something of a gamble for whoever choses to use them, something like "will I get my 2 jam cycles or won't I?", while atm its not even a question. The sad thing about it, is that if indeed the situation is a solo fight on a gate, the ECM drones just make the opponent deagress and leave the fight... These drones just take away from the general enjoyment of small scale PvP, that is my opinion.

I'm not saying ECM drones are bad. I'm just saying... Leave my Drakes alone! :-) And if you feel the need to nerf something, take it out on the ECM drones.

This is a flawed argument in several ways.
1. The fact that the Drake is good with such ridiculously low skills compared to the other BCs is actually a major red flag of an overpowered ship, not a good thing.
2. Bar new players from being capable and wanted? What game are you playing? Tacklers are always useful, and ECM isn't exactly hard to train for. There, I just gave you two roles new players can easily fill, and neither of those take "half a year" to train for.
3. The fact it happens to be a (too much so) newbie friendly ship right now comes second to the fact that the Drake is out of balance, and needs to be brought back in line. Sure it might suck for them for a little while, but it'll be very good for the game on the whole.
4. It's actually the uses higher SP players are putting it to that's far more of a problem than what some newbie does.

It really doesn't sound like that much of a nerf. More of a role change, really.

A velocity bonus drake would be doing about 550dps out to 105km. The 7.5km/s missiles would also have a much easier time landing hits on frigates. You'd also have HAMs hitting out past point range for ~650dps.

Essentially you'd have either a high dps ship with a good tank (it still would have 6 mids). Or an extremely solid 100km sniper with selectable damage types. The new drake would still be incredibly good in either of those roles.

Solid sniper at 100km with missiles....please save that for someone who will buy that ridiculous statement. The reason the cerb is one of the crappiest Hacs because that idea of sniping with missiles.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, GTFO please. +Velocity helps at long range because the missiles then take less time to reach their target. Not all Drakes sit at 5km you know.
As for HAMs, the ability to lob those at 30km or so is pretty sweet actually.

Overall this is an awesome change and I can't wait to give it a try.

3/10

Ever fit T2 Hams on a drake? in order to get them on plus anything that you can call a tank, you need fitting mods or implants.
Hams are junk unless your target is webbed and scrammed.

No, there are a plethora of other reasons that the Cerb is one of the crappiest HACs. Reasons that oddly enough don't affect the Drake.

-Liang

Ther cerb is crap all the way around, but a sniping missile ship? That suggestion oozes stupidity..I know your a forum nut and pride yourself in having some sort of come back for any post, but seriously if you dont think the main draw back of the cerb is the idea of a missile snipe ship, then i have a white hug me jacket and a rubber room for you.

Ahh you got smacked down by a drake and now you boohoo about it. How about getting a hair cut? You have no idea what you are rambling on about. There is nothing flawed new people to the game need something to survive in. You do realize there is more to this game than tackling and PVP correct since PVP pays **** in isk.

The fact that you got faceplanted at some time by some newb in an absolute NEWB ship is not our fault.

WTF are you going to use ECM for in PVE? So every new person is suppose to be your slave ECM or Tackling bot. Yeah we get it.

So every new person is suppose to be your slave ECM or Tackling bot. Yeah we get it.

YESS thats not a nerf - its a buff...

OK

I agree - u wont be able to solo WHs with it anymore or do afk L4 missions but - YESSSSSS you will be able to rat in EVERY nulsec space with it - distance tanking with HMLs or do fleet pew pew with HAMs on 40km distance wohooohoohooooohohohoho, looking forward to it - I mite just as well jump into it once again :)

I.

Which L4 do you think you would be unable to do with the NewDrake?

I'd be really surprised if you can do *any* C3 anom solo with NewDrake.

-Liang

The Naga has no resist bonus, yet it is getting some use in pvp.

It's too early to say anything. As it is the drake is hardly "better" in most roles other than "ok-dps@range" if it's not tankier.
And "ok-dps@range" is not enough - that's why the caracal lineup is not used much.

ROF bonus would be nice.
ROF + missile speed would be great, but it would kill anything with HML/HAM capabilities below the Drake's class, as it would be still tankier than HACs/Cruisers, and have more DPS, and same range etc etc etc...

It's hardly a "Great HAM Drake buff" however you see it tho - it is still out-classed in DPS by it's nemesis, the cane, (it will have full dmg selectivity tho, a bit plus, but so do Minmatar to a great extend, and you won't have the passive resist tank - aka, the neuts that would shut your Invul's off, will work against you faster, and you will have less EHP to boot with. - Wait - it's too early to say...

All I have to say - LOVE THE HARBINGER and the PROPHECY TOO!
Maybe it's not the Drake that it's too good...It's the other Tier 2 BCs, the caracal line, the NH etc that are weak...(lol).

Oh, and reading that they will make it "gankier" to match the Raven hull - oh, please...that made me laugh...
Only Torp-Raven is ganky. Cruise missiles are a joke (even T2 Furys), and HAMs are NOTHING like torps.

Make a glass, 800 DPS HAM cerb with range bonuses, or an equiv. Drake - even kin limited, with no range bonus - and then we talk again. This cowardice "massaging" won't change anything. Only will populate the forums with more whiny threads.

I'd be really surprised if you can do *any* C3 anom solo with NewDrake.

-Liang

makes it more of a challenge for ships like the myrm to kill

I think the drake is perfect. Its slow as ****, built like a brick and can (slowly) whittle away a lot of targets. Increasing its average DPS a little bit and its range while seriously harming its tank will make it less useful.

A Drake in it's present form, complete t2 fitted, can zip through level 4s..try it yourself....

The purpose of the recomended changes is to weed out the casual players, who pay for their time with cash, not plex.
Maybe CCPs finance department will wake up.....

Lots of posters are experienced player - did you forget that you once been young (noob) player? Drake is rare ship that starting players can use to run lvl 3 missions without fear that will loose the ship and can make some descent money to buy equipment and others ship.

Many 3+ years players are roaming high sectors and still preaching about LS and Null ... How many of you are in low sectors - millions? Or low sector is little deserted than ...?

I understand that CCP is doing this - losing ships and equipment is more money for them, but other players ... If you dont fly Drakes or do not like them, why bothering about Drakes so much? And yes, there are others ships around to fly, but to collect and spare some ISK, the Drake is almost best to do that (for running missions - PVE).

And many are shouting about independence and such, but still want to be a CEO of 1000+ corp with noobs to collect easy ISK? Give others chance to make a descent star, to build up some SP and that you can start killing them or preaching for low and null epic battles.

For the benefit of the ones panicking about this change:
Stats post-buff
DPS: Same with kinetic, 25% better with other damage types
Missile range: Around 100km
Tank: 60-65k

Hardly broken, is it?

What do you think of the drake changes mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes.


"CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus instead gain a rate of fire and a missile velocity bonus."

Are the changes on sisi already?

-Liang

Not much in the way of math, to be honest. Ok yeah I'll admit now it was a bit of a crude estimate. I didn't think I'd underestimated it though O_o

Came expecting Drake tears, wasn't disappointed

This will improve the Drake, and you by proxy. It will put out enough DPS to actually kill things before they dispair and give in, you might actually be able to hurt Gallente T2 ships (High kin resists), and best of all people won't automatically think of you as a safety-obsessed pvp fun vacuum.

I see no downsides

The down side is that this ***** all over the role you can reasonably expect for the Cara, NCara, and Cerb. Also if your DPS was that bad with a Drake, may I suggest fitting some BCUs?

-Liang

The down side is that this ***** all over the role you can reasonably expect for the Cara, NCara, and Cerb.
-Liang

I'll grant you that you do see them with BCUs fitted. Still not fantastic DPS compared to the other tier2 BCs though unless you're using kinetic, which is reasonably high %-wise in most resist profiles.

As for treading on the toes of the caracal and cerb, that's kind of an issue with tier2 BCs in general.

[don't let me keep interrupt your pity party

Lol, again with the attempts to annoy me. Gotta love the forums eh.

Read my initial post and note it's optimistic nature.

Now, where did I leave my Enyo...

As to it stepping on the toes of the Cerb and Caracal: no... it really doesn't. They have a niche with long range missiles and that niche is going to be severely impinged upon with the longer ranged Drake.

One bay thruster II puts the drake's range just over 100km and it delivers a higher damage volley which is important when the target can simply warp off most of the time. Then there's the fact it's only marginally slower, has far more ehp, costs less, etc. etc. You know, the obvious stuff. When do you think that this is not enough? Of course there's a theoretical niche where a cerb can lob missiles at 2x that range, but when is it useful? It's not.

The drake shouldn't be stepping on toes, but this role is garbage anyway. Unless there's a missile revamp dramatically increasing velocity and decreasing flight time of HML in particular, the cerb's might as well be an opux. You fly it for luls, that's it. It's too slow to skirmish, doesn't have the grid/ehp to brawl, and it's time to deliver dps at it's ideal range(s) is horrifying.

tl;dr: Do whatever you want with the drake, fix bad hacs.

Now if they got rid of the Myrm's rep bonus for say hybrid damage and pushed its drones up to 100-125bandwith we would have use a solid set of tier 2's.

You don't seem to understand: you can't "fix" the bad HACs if the Drake gets this bonus - it ***** all over them and leaves them literally nowhere to turn.

-Liang

You seem to be missing the point. Leaving them that niche is immaterial. It is a nearly-useless niche to have. I am not arguing the drake past, present, or future should or should not occupy that niche. I am saying that the niche should be revised, ie. making guided missiles faster and shorter range, or these ships should be changed to occupy fulfill another role.

You seem to think that changing guided missiles won't also affect the Drake. Well, it will. The Drake will have superior DPS and tank while maintaining more than enough range and pretty great mobility. They do not have to give it the range bonus - its stupid and royally fucks up the game.

-Liang

You seem to assume I am (despite the fact i've repeatedly stated otherwise) arguing for the drake changes presented. This is not the case. I'm telling you the hac role you said it would eliminiate, was never worth occupying to begin with. Even with a small range reduction, just for the drake, it would still be more useful than a cerb.

My point was entirely to say, regardless of how effective or ineffective the drake is/becomes, the cerb is already obsolete. Sure, this might add insult to injury, but that's immaterial.

Missile sniping is a useless role for any ship. The Caracal/ NCara/ and Cerb all need to be redesigned from the ground up imo. Standard Caracal arguably less so, given its proficiency for eating frigs, but the others definitely. The new Drake looks like it's being brought pretty much right in line with the other tier 2 BCs in both ehp and dps.

One could still argue though that part of its character was to be over-tanked. In that case I would accept the rof bonus with a straight ehp bonus rather than resistances or missile velocity, so it will still have raw buffer but be less-effective when paired with logis.

The Cerb is obsoleted because it has **** fittings, not because the role it occupies is useless.

That doesn't make it the only use of the bonus.

I'm still waiting to hear what you think that role is and how you can imagine a cerb, with just a fitting adjustment (I presume you're talking about it's lacking grid) would be better than any alternatives.

Just because some ppl like to fly high dps ships it doesn't mean it's ok to destroy the game for ppl liking to fly high tank ships.

The Cerberus is difficult but not impossible to fit. It can still mount a 41k tank with 3 BCUs and a rack of HMLs, but needs pretty much maxed out CPU skills to do so. An equivilent HAM fit needs an ACR but doesn't gimp it too badly.

About a 10% grid and CPU buff would make it perfect, to be honest.


And yet another idiot that assumes just because the Drake is losing the tank bonus, it'll now drop to cruiser level EHP or something.
Hint: it won't.

I'd fit it like a cheap Tengu and go **** BC gangs with it.

-Liang

It'll not drop to cruiser ehp but it will loose it's uniqueness in that it's a ship that vastly favors tank over damage.