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Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints
Assassin Confederacy
38
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Posted - 2012.02.26 20:09:00 -
[301] - Quote
Hate the changes. |
Maroxus
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.02.26 20:26:00 -
[302] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:The problem has allot to do with the grid however has even more to do with the slot layout. The Drake ( a tech 1 bc) has 2, yes 2 more slots than the nighthawk (a tech 2 bc). Yes rigs DO count as slots for all those out there thinking I can't count  .
That's largely to due with command ships being based on tier 1 BCs. Every command ship, both field and fleet, gets 1 more slot, more cpu, and more powergrid over their tech 1 variant. The nighthawk is the sole exception as it gets less powergrid rather then more. A whole 1/3 less over the Ferox.
Also these drake changes will break another pattern in eve: Every tier 1 and teir 2 BC has one bonus that is the same. Active armor rep bonus for Gallente, Projectille rate of fire for Minmatar, Energy weapon cap reduction for Amarr, and of course shield resist bonus for Caldari.
But hey if CCP doesn't want to play with patterns anymore, why not throw the table and fix those needing a buff like the prophecy and some tech 1 cruisers. |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2012.02.27 01:29:00 -
[303] - Quote
So when they nerf the drake to put it more inline with other races.. will it get a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth ??? |
Liam Mirren
292
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Posted - 2012.02.27 02:07:00 -
[304] - Quote
drdxie wrote:So when they nerf the drake to put it more inline with other races.. will it get a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth ???
It can get the same bay as the Cane :P
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Soporo
Perkone
Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.02.27 03:47:00 -
[305] - Quote
double post
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
- H.L. Mencken |
Soporo
Perkone
Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.02.27 03:50:00 -
[306] - Quote
Soporo wrote:They ought to be looking at the freekin Daredevil, not the Drake.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
- H.L. Mencken |
Mike Whiite
Progressive State
24
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Posted - 2012.02.27 13:42:00 -
[307] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Mike Whiite wrote:Let missiles run a simulair tree to guns what would this fix? Technical issue....your standard issue drake fires 1 ammo primarily. CN scourge. While it may be heresy, CN scourge fires almost jsut as well from a malkuth HML as it does from a t2 launcher. ROF obvioulsy different but its not omfg end of the world difference imo. Coming up the ranks...a malkuth drake put some dents in peoples ride almost as good as I did when t2, spec 4, all that happy horsecrap.
Not realy unless you'll buy that Malkuth to safe the 700.000 ISK a launcher it will mean you have Heavy missiles on lvl 4 or lower and that is a damage bonus.
RoF for missiles is a damage bonus as well within the missiles range, not to mention the RoF of a T2 is already faster than of that Malkuth.
breaking it down to just the launchers and the difference between skills you have when opperating the T2 or Malkuth.
-Malkuth heavy with caldari navy Trauma:
CNT Missile 172 kin damage
Heavy missile launcher 4
single shot damage 172 + 20% (heavey missile launcher 4) = 34.4 = 206.4 a shot every 14 seconds x 7 launchers on your Drake is a volley damage of 1444,1/14 = 103.15 damage a second.
T2 HML with Caldari navy trauma:
CNT Missile 172 Kin damage
Heavy missile launcher 5
Heavy Missile launcher Sepcialisation 4 (rather short learning time when you start with specialisation)
Single shot Damage 172 + 25% (heavey missile launcher 5) = 43 = 215 a shot every 11,04 seconds x 7 launchers on your Drake is a volley damage of 1505/11,04 = 136,32 damage a second.
Right after the 3th Malkuth volley the T2 fires its 4th Volley, then the loading capacity of a malthuth is lower then that of a T2 so it needs more reloads as well wich even lowers the DPS even more.
theb there is the T2 reduced heat damage for overheating.
So it realy does matter if you use a T2 launcher even is you are not using T2 ammo.
---
One of the criteria the meating gave was that the Drake was over used, not only by Caldari pilots but in general, one reason for that is that (when shield trained) you can fly it in 22 hours and fire missiles.
It's the easiest ship to adapt an entire group to, that is one of the reasons why the Drake blob is so succesfull, it's the Sherman tank of EVE online.
Make it more Skill intensive (with less skills) and it will make it less popular already.
Battlecruisers should become racial and missiles should have a more simular skill tree to Gunnery.
results no 3 month old players in Drakes or other Battlecruisers for that matter (good for cruisers)
The Drake will become less populair because you can't train 12 newbees to fly in your Drake blob within a week, and you don't just side learn it within the same week because you like to run missions in it or do WH.
The change will take time ofcourse but changing one ships stats to put an other ship on top just changes the name of the nerf every other week.
|
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
5
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Posted - 2012.02.27 16:37:00 -
[308] - Quote
My only complaint from a PvE perspective would be changing the HML system itself. Lowering flight times, as has been hinted at, would affect more than just the Drake. The Rof v. Kin change is great, the velocity change is nice in a few ways, but any changes to the HML system should not change the current range of missles on other ships such as the Tengu, Cerberus, or any other missle chucking ship.
As far as the resist changes go, doesn't bother me none. The RoF change will make the Drake better at non-Kin missions and it will still be an L3 beast of a ship. Flinging EM based missles will make other BC's look to fill that hole. Might lead to more armor battles, but we shall see. I think the trade will work better than most people think.
My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.
I would also apply the above to the Ferox and Brutix, the poor Ferox is at 0.597!! |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
204
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Posted - 2012.02.27 17:32:00 -
[309] - Quote
Kneebone wrote:My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.
What would you say to giving an unfitted Drake the same align time as an unfitted Hurricane? |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade
Vanguard.
33
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Posted - 2012.02.27 19:35:00 -
[310] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Kneebone wrote:My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.
What would you say to giving an unfitted Drake the same align time as an unfitted Hurricane?
Nothing, they have the same align time now 8.23 sec. Now if you want to give it the base speed of a Hurricane I'd welcome that. Caldari ships are agile they just aren't quick. Hurrucane 206 m/s Drake 175 m/s. |
Scien Inkunen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.02.27 19:46:00 -
[311] - Quote
What ever they intend to do - just do it at last.
Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life ! |
Nor Tzestu
Stillwater Intelligence Services
46
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Posted - 2012.02.28 00:59:00 -
[312] - Quote
I for one welcome the new drake. As i suck at pvp, I have stocked up on drake hulls all fitted PODLA style. Having more deeps and more range to go with it will be just what the dr. ordered. Getting people out of drakes for real boats in level 4 PVE is a good thing. |
Zyress
Deaths Head Brigade
Vanguard.
33
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Posted - 2012.02.28 16:26:00 -
[313] - Quote
Soporo wrote:Soporo wrote:They ought to be looking at the freekin Daredevil, not the Drake.
yeah... Drake OP Angel Cartel Ships just fine... |
safrrr
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
0
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Posted - 2012.05.27 23:53:00 -
[314] - Quote
here is what its basicly comes at.
drake is good at almost anything. it has a strong tank and it has reliable firepower. not strong, but reliable.
thats what the drake is. cheap and reliable. thats why its one of the most used ships out there for both ratting, wormholing and pvp.
losing the drake its current abilities is simple blasphemy. trading the kinetic damage bonus for a rof bonus will have an almost identical damage output, changing the resistance for longer missile range, simply means you need to start fitting a medium slot for a sensor booster, giving it even less tank. the drake was never meant to snipe with, even with the changed bonuses, it will only suck more.
this is typical of CCP, they always change a ship when its good at something, the myrmidon got nerfed because people complained it had too much drone power. **HELLO! DRONE DAMAGE MODS MAKE DOMINIX INTO A 1600DPS POWERHOUSE!** They are now trying to do the same to the drake? because its good at what its supposed to do? being a cheap and reliable vehicle for us to be used. thats just messed up, and if they continue with this they are simply asking for another player riot in jita.
alot of people rely on the drake for its current abilities, its kinetic missile damage gives it an edge over players not able to tank it properly, its resistance mods makes it survive an attack longer, this ship, is already a front line ship. The raven is not one of those ships, the raven is sheer crap. not even polished crap with a bo tie attached to it, just plain old doggy poo.
change the drake, and ccp changes the heart of the caldari faction. if they are going to NERF this ship, then i demand they will nerf the tier 2 battlecruisers of the other factions. |
Maeltstome
Epidemic.
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
4
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Posted - 2012.05.28 08:23:00 -
[315] - Quote
95k EHP. 350DPS. 1200 M/s. 70KM range. Costs 80mil. No Tracking.
BALANCE. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
111
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Posted - 2012.05.28 08:51:00 -
[316] - Quote
Nine out of ten Battlecruisers are Drakes.
Sure, you have some idiots like myself who prefer style over function and fly either Amarr, Gallente or Minmatar Battlecruisers, but at the end of the day nothing beats the Drake. It has everything in a cheap little package. There simply is no reason not to fly a Drake because it is so damn good.
The Drake needs to be hit by the nerfbat, or the forgotten Battlecruisers of the other factions (and the Ferox. What, you didn't know Caldari had another Battlecruiser?) needs to be brought in-line with the Drake's awesomeness.
I prefer option #1.
Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:19:00 -
[317] - Quote
Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.
The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
111
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Posted - 2012.05.28 12:34:00 -
[318] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.
The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots.
Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.
Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:43:00 -
[319] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.
The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots. Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.
Your argument doesn't hold water couse I was talking about Caldari, no other factions. I wont get into that aegument since I don't fly them, tho I would like it very much. But since you mention it, the could change it so that Tier 2 (and not T2) would be every faction tankers and Tier 3 (not T3) would be the dps dealer. But it just a thought. |
Maeltstome
Epidemic.
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
5
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Posted - 2012.05.28 12:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.
Cyclone has an active tanking bonus for shields. |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
214
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 12:57:00 -
[321] - Quote
safrrr wrote:
this is typical of CCP, they always change a ship when its good at something, the myrmidon got nerfed because people complained it had too much drone power. **HELLO! DRONE DAMAGE MODS MAKE DOMINIX INTO A 1600DPS POWERHOUSE!** They are now trying to do the same to the drake? because its good at what its supposed to do? being a cheap and reliable vehicle for us to be used. thats just messed up, and if they continue with this they are simply asking for another player riot in jita.
It hasn't been changed since 2008 (when Quantum Rise massively buffed it). The suggested changes haven't even been revisited in 6 months. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
3975
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:14:00 -
[322] - Quote
safrrr wrote:here is what its basicly comes at.
drake is good at almost anything. it has a strong tank and it has reliable firepower. not strong, but reliable.
thats what the drake is. cheap and reliable. thats why its one of the most used ships out there for both ratting, wormholing and pvp.
losing the drake its current abilities is simple blasphemy. trading the kinetic damage bonus for a rof bonus will have an almost identical damage output...
If by "almost identical" you mean "33% more DPS", I suppose.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 13:31:00 -
[323] - Quote
Remember the reloading times and how does that affect the dps |
Lili Lu
239
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 14:00:00 -
[324] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.
The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots. Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker. Your argument doesn't hold water couse I was talking about Caldari, no other factions. I wont get into that aegument since I don't fly them, tho I would like it very much. But since you mention it, the could change it so that Tier 2 (and not T2) would be every faction tankers and Tier 3 (not T3) would be the dps dealer. But it just a thought.
Congrats Kalel you are making the case for a Drake nerf quite well. Indeed, what other t1 (by this I assume you mean tech I) BC can tank a C3 wh? There should of course be only one.
Sorry but I hope they nerf the shield regen for all BCs along with removing your Drake's resist bonus. Then omg you'ld have to see if a Ferox (presumably still with a resist bonus) could put out enough dps at 70km and somehow have enough cap to run an eek, local tank. Or horrors, people might have to try to use active Cyclones, or even Prophecys and ack, active armor tanking. Or, maybe they would try Myrmidons but whoops dps already nerfed (and lol drones against sleepers) and if BC shield regen gets nerfed, again ack, active armor tanking.  Or maybe no tech I BC should be solo-ing C3s.
Frankly, I hope that what does happen is that the resist bonus is simply replaced with a missile speed bonus. That would be a true nerf for a ship that has been deserving one for many years. None of this replacement of the kinetic bonus with a rof bonus. I mean who wants Gallente tech II ship resists to mean anything anyway. **** Gallente. They've been losers for a while now, let's pile it on.
However, not to worry, I don't think I've ever seen a Caldari ship outright nerfed. ECM got nerfed, twice, but ecm boats got simultaneous compensatory buffs. But now, not hearing about any simultaneous buff for Neut boats with the new cap battery right back atcha mechanic. The Myrm got two sentry/heavy drones taken away and no compensatory buff when it got quickly nerfed after it's introduction to tranquility. Web boats got no re-buff with the web nerf. Damp boats no re-buff with the Damp nerf. The list goes on. It seem membership in the most populous race in new eden has its privileges.
Also, again, no reason to worry about your carebear Drake, you see, with this expansion we had 5 frigs "rebalanced." They appear to be working their way up the ship classes. No word from CCP, but apparently in 6 months there will be 5 more frigs rebalanced. At this rate it will be years still before your precious easy-mode Drake will get altered in any way. Relax, and let me and anyone else that looks at the stats that are available about pve and pvp ship use (and cares about game balance) do the crying.  |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:51:00 -
[325] - Quote
Sorry, master, I didn`t knew that carebearing should be hard. And BTW, you can`t solo a C3 in a drake without warp or having an alt with Link bonuses. So, I guess it`s been a long time since you did a C3, but Sleepers BS neuts are killers, eats your cap in a minute or so, and that is a good bye to your adaptives, and hello to EM hole.
Again, you are crying that the drake is easy mode and it shouldn`t be doing C3 (uhm) solo. They should have been nerfed a long time ago. The onlu argument is that myrm got nerfed, so nerf others and drakes are good and simple. so ubernerf them. What you don`t realise is that they are good, not great. Not much dps unless you spend a lot in skills (lvl 5 to everything relevant).
Also, at pvp, we only use drakes as support, not main. Its not that good, simple.
For carebearing, lacks of the dps to finish a C3 site in 15 minutes (forts maybe), so, more than one is needed |
Lili Lu
244
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 02:42:00 -
[326] - Quote
I probably shouldn't but oh what the hell.
Kalel, you said "what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?" Implying that the Drake alone is capable.
So you see you pointed out the difference of the Drake from all other BCs. Yes neuting, but apparently you would not want to use any other BC and rightly so. Alt with link bonuses or not. Thus my examples of the horror that would ensue with any other BC and active local tanking, solo or not.
No, it is not my only argument that Myrms got nerfed very quickly. Maybe you should go back and read the whole thread. Also, oh you poor thing that you have to train shield operation 5 and shield management 5. I'm sure everyone else is doing fine training shield compensation 3 or 4 or armor skills to 3 or 4 and not 5, including the armor damage compensation skills.
You flat out confessed that you have no experience with any race of ships but Caldari - "I was talking about Caldari, no other factions. I won't get into that aegument since I don't fly them." So it would seem that you lack perspective on the Drake. You just don't want it nerfed. Understandable but not a valid argument that it is balanced with other BCs and with other ships in the classes above.
But you know, I already alerted you that you probably have nothing to worry about most likely for many years at the pace of changes that appear now. I hope I'm there though when it is finally nerfed to bathe in the tears of people like you. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc.
Armada Assail
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 04:49:00 -
[327] - Quote
As you said, what the hell. Instead of leveling up other bc to get, in teir own term, be a good tanker while dealing a bit of dps in an effective way, you keep insisting in the nerf argument. That was my point, but you understood whatever you wanted to understand. As so many other said in other topics with less arguments that mine (basically "whaaaaaa, NOT FAIR!!!!!"), why fix what it ain't broken. Fix the other bcs so every faction, in its own way, can have a good base plataform for pvp and move on from there.
I hope I made my point simple. And you don't need to talk down to me, I understand you just fine without you petty sarcasm. |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
21
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Posted - 2012.05.29 14:52:00 -
[328] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Remember the reloading times and how does that affect the dps
Haha ! I missed this one ! Sure, you often need to reload to finish your target, more often without the damage bonus ! :D
Come on, this so called nerf is not even one. Drake tank wil remain very good, dps will be better with real damage selection, delayed damage application will be reduced and AML will have better damage projection. Infact, it will be on line with the others, and still an OP BC tier 2... |
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