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Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:57:00 - [61] NOT Signed! Again, one of the worse ideas ever that just won't seem to die. The OP may have 'had fun' when local was removed, but I'll bet he was 'having fun' flying around trying to gank people, not doing missions/mining/ratting. This argument get put forward by one very selfish group of players over and over again.... Quit your whining and live with it. And for God's sake stop for a moment and look at it from multiple points of view.
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:01:00 - [62] Originally by: Leroy Payne Originally by: Xoria Krint Edited by: Xoria Krint on 13/09/2007 10:47:16 The people that are saying no to this probably didn't think it trough or they are cowards. I made a post about this not so long ago and I beg that it will happen. SIGNED nice logic. "If you disagree with me, you either don't understand or you are a coward." I am a pvper, I do nothing else barring a little bit of earning money so i can pvp more. I oppose this change, because it will mean less pvp IN MY OPINION Also whoever is quoting Oveur should remember rule number 1: Game Devs and GMs are capable of being wrong too. Oveur can sit there saying local isn't a tactical tool until he is blue in the face - the fact remains people use it as such and to them it is a tactical tool. If oveur says the sea is yellow and the grass is blue, he'd also be wrong. A bit much for a dedicated eve powergamer to understand I know. Well then I simply don't understand how you think this can mean less pvp. Care to explain? - My Movies
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:13:00 - [63] Originally by: Laboratus no That kills pvp You can't find ppl and getting ppl to engage becomes difficult, since you can hide dozens or hundreds of ships outside scanrange, and most ppl won't engage, if they don't have any real intel... It would seriously reduce the amount of fights, and as such would be very bad for the game... I think it would do quite the oposite. This is a change that would realy benefit pvp since people have to be on their toes unless theywant to get jumped. Altho if this is going to work the scanner needs to be improved aswell. but I defenately like the idTa. __________________________________ Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice. iDrone
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:47:00 - [64] Originally by: Xoria Krint Well then I simply don't understand how you think this can mean less pvp. Care to explain? Well you could read the other posts I wrote which explain this point. However in a nutshell- making it harder to find targets = less pvp. Oh but you say that the targets cannot see you coming either so it is equal? NO, they can see you coming on scanner and they can still log off, warp away, leave system, clone jump - and you won't even know they have left and waste yet more time looking for them. Fairly self-explanatory. The only difference you get by removing local is that ratters will use their scanner more, and roaming hunters will have to spend at least twice as long to find every target. This will eventually mean more people doing lame gatecamps in chokepoints, and less people doing romaing pvp. How can you think that effectively making everyone invisible to one another is going to make more fights??
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Arial Stargazer Also, brainless and lazy Scouts will be out of a job This last point sorta relates to just to empire wars I fixed it for you. And to address your other whines, I'm not sure where anyone insisted that an alternative method of finding people, that isn't simply a magical list of names of everyone in a whole system, can't be implemented. I find it amusing that: carebears whine that it will make pirates impossible to spot ahead of time. Pirates whine that it will make carebears too hard to find. I think you're all profoundly lazy, and I think that CCP will eventually find something better than local for providing scouting intel. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Crax McGee Silentium.	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:51:00 - [66] Yeah down with local - they prob will think of something that gives ur more intel if you have sov 3/4 or what not.
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:54:00 - [67] Edited by: Xoria Krint on 13/09/2007 14:55:10 Originally by: Leroy Payne Oh but you say that the targets cannot see you coming either so it is equal? NO, they can see you coming on scanner and they can still log off, warp away, leave system, clone jump - and you won't even know they have left and waste yet more time looking for them. Fairly self-explanatory. How can you think that effectively making everyone invisible to one another is going to make more fights?? Well we can use the scanner aswell so its still equal Besides i don't think the npcer's will spam the scan button. Probably just once in a while so we are more prepared. I even think more pilots will come to lowsec if local was removed. And more mining ops/npcer's in the belts. Originally by: Crax McGee Yeah down with local - they prob will think of something that gives ur more intel if you have sov 3/4 or what not. Yea but i want it removed in lowsec aswell. Don't care about highsec. - My Movies
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:59:00 - [68] 0.5-1.0 - local we have now 0.1-0.4 - local but your name doesn't show up unless you talk, "Constellation" channel works as high-sec local 0.0 - no local at all, but "Constellation" channel works as high-sec local He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
sliver 0xD Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.13 14:59:00 - [69] Edited by: sliver 0xD on 13/09/2007 15:01:19 i was thinking more of an OPTION to close local :P its like 500 in local and everyone starts to spam and smack and i just dont need that :P should be option to disable local from client where the server doesnt send the client the chat anyway :P maybe even gives less lag :P
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:01:00 - [70] Originally by: Xoria Krint I even think more pilots will come to lowsec if local was removed. And more mining ops/npcer's in the belts. True. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:11:00 - [71] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Arial Stargazer Also, brainless and lazy Scouts will be out of a job This last point sorta relates to just to empire wars I fixed it for you. And to address your other whines, I'm not sure where anyone insisted that an alternative method of finding people, that isn't simply a magical list of names of everyone in a whole system, can't be implemented. I find it amusing that: carebears whine that it will make pirates impossible to spot ahead of time. Pirates whine that it will make carebears too hard to find. I think you're all profoundly lazy, and I think that CCP will eventually find something better than local for providing scouting intel. listen who's the one whining? We are happy with things as they are, and you want a change... and yet it is us who are whining? You are obviously from the school of thought that if someone disagrees with you - they are whining, which I have to point out for the second time today, is just fantastic logic. Don't sit there calling me and others like me lazy because I want A GAME to be FUN. I have a job mate for doing boring things all day long. If you want something to fulfil your obsessive compulsive desire for repetitive action, I might suggest scrubbing your hands until they bleed, or locking the front door to your house 100 times a day. Or just sit in eve tapping the scanner button all day long and close local. Honestly you must be some kind of uber hardcore gamer who deserves an advantage in game because you are so super intelligent to be able to use your system scanner to find a target. /me bows down and stops my 'whining' this guy obviously is right, and all who disagree are whiners who are too lazy to play eve for 16 hours a day.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:22:00 - [72] Originally by: Leroy Payne listen who's the one whining? We are happy with things as they are, and you want a change... and yet it is us who are whining? My main issue with it is that it makes no sense. Not so much a whine about issues with the current system, as a desire to see something that isn't a chat window, like some kind of real scouting system, get implemented. Originally by: Leroy Payne Don't sit there calling me and others like me lazy because I want A GAME to be FUN. I have a job mate for doing boring things all day long. If you want something to fulfil your obsessive compulsive desire for repetitive action, I might suggest scrubbing your hands until they bleed, or locking the front door to your house 100 times a day. Or just sit in eve tapping the scanner button all day long and close local. I find it amusing that you didn't seem to read the very post you quoted. It kind of proves my point. You're just profoundly lazy. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:27:00 - [73] /signed ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:40:00 - [74] Edited by: Elmicker on 13/09/2007 15:40:44 Spending 8 hours searching for targets every day? No thanks.
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Elmicker Spending 8 hours for targets every day? No thanks. So you can't use the scanner? To complicated for you? - My Movies
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:43:00 - [76] Originally by: Xoria Krint So you can't use the scanner? To complicated for you? That 14AU scanner that can't differentiate between piloted ships and ships in space?
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:47:00 - [77] Edited by: Leroy Payne on 13/09/2007 15:47:05 Originally by: Frug Originally by: Leroy Payne listen who's the one whining? We are happy with things as they are, and you want a change... and yet it is us who are whining? My main issue with it is that it makes no sense. Not so much a whine about issues with the current system, as a desire to see something that isn't a chat window, like some kind of real scouting system, get implemented. Originally by: Leroy Payne Don't sit there calling me and others like me lazy because I want A GAME to be FUN. I have a job mate for doing boring things all day long. If you want something to fulfil your obsessive compulsive desire for repetitive action, I might suggest scrubbing your hands until they bleed, or locking the front door to your house 100 times a day. Or just sit in eve tapping the scanner button all day long and close local. I find it amusing that you didn't seem to read the very post you quoted. It kind of proves my point. You're just profoundly lazy. who's the one whining again? Sorry if I was choking to hard on the stench of your hypocrisy to spell it out totally for you in words under four letters. Yeah exactly now stfu.
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:48:00 - [78] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Xoria Krint So you can't use the scanner? To complicated for you? That 14AU scanner that can't differentiate between piloted ships and ships in space? It can even findout where the ships are. - My Movies
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:49:00 - [79] Originally by: Leroy Payne who's the one whining again? Sorry if I was choking to hard on the stench of your hypocrisy to spell it out totally for you in words under four letters. Yeah exactly now stfu and get a job. lol Go play wow. And grow up. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:52:00 - [80] Edited by: Leroy Payne on 13/09/2007 15:56:25 Edited by: Leroy Payne on 13/09/2007 15:54:16 Originally by: Frug Originally by: Leroy Payne who's the one whining again? Sorry if I was choking to hard on the stench of your hypocrisy to spell it out totally for you in words under four letters. Yeah exactly now stfu and get a job. lol Go play wow. And grow up. seems you are too lazy to come up with a proper argument for why local should be removed and something else put in its place. Get a job. Just because I want roaming pvp to be something accesible to people who aren't unemployed/ a student you are suggesting I am a wow like carebear. Doesn't follow. The removal of local will mean it takes longer to find targets, but no harder whatsoever in real terms (instead of check local check scanner) for a target to find you and take steps to run away. It is in essence, a complete waste of time if you want to pvp and get targets without sitting on a chokepoint.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 15:56:00 - [81] I'll quit my web development gig and drop out of college to line up at the grocery store as soon as they fire you. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:01:00 - [82] Edited by: Leroy Payne on 13/09/2007 16:02:49 Originally by: Frug I'll quit my web development gig and drop out of college to line up at the grocery store as soon as they fire you. so you're a student doing a bit of web dev. Congratu-*******-lations. Enjoy mediochrity. you still fail to provide an answer as to why local should be removed EITHER to put something that basically does exactly the same thing in its place OR to have nothing in its place and make hunting targets a really painfully dull business, with no real way of knowing if the target you saw 30 secs ago is still in system. Or if the 10 planet system you have just entered has any targets in in the first place, or if when you've finished your scan two targets have entered, or if the ship you saw on scan has a pilot in, or if that pilot just logged off and by the time you scan down the ship it will vanish. There's so many things wrong with it it's not true. You'd literally have to want to spend your whole day doing boring repetitive tasks, which is not why I spend my cash on eve. Let's all run around with blindfolds on. Lets all play invisible live alone in space online. Macro ratting paradise.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:33:00 - [83] You're a very bitter fellow, you know that? You remind me of me when I make posts early in the morning. Except even I don't pull out the 'get a job' line on a video game forum. I mean, honestly dude. At least make fun of my avatar's eggplant shaped head. That would hurt me more. Take a deep breath. Now exhale slowly. Goood. Now go have a beer. Unless you're an angry drunk, which you sound like. So go smoke some dope. Originally by: Leroy Payne you still fail to provide an answer as to why local should be removed I said before, my problem with local is that it's a chat room and makes no sense. Ship sensors should have range limits and solar systems aren't rooms, they're space. It's a nonsensical tool for people who want instant intel. I think it would be much more interesting if you had to actually scout a system to find out who's in it, rather than magically know. Quote: EITHER to put something that basically does exactly the same thing in its place... That is essentially what is being suggested, yes. A system which will allow people to hide to some degree, but would give you tools to find them that don't consist of a magical chat room. Quote: OR to have nothing in its place and make hunting targets a really painfully dull business, with no real way of knowing if the target you saw 30 secs ago is still in system. Or if the 10 planet system you have just entered has any targets in in the first place, or if when you've finished your scan two targets have entered, or if the ship you saw on scan has a pilot in, or if that pilot just logged off and by the time you scan down the ship it will vanish. There's so many things wrong with it it's not true. You'd literally have to want to spend your whole day doing boring repetitive tasks, which is not why I spend my cash on eve. Perhaps you should stop playing eve if you feel the need to bring up your job and how you pay cash for it in every post you make. I don't see the relevance to the discussion. If it was free, would you stop this nonsense? Probably not. I can think of a dozen alternatives to the current system that are not boring and don't require you to continually click a scan button. Now that you've finally acknowledged that I'm suggesting an alternative to local scouting, maybe you can start using your brain to come up with some alternatives as well. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:43:00 - [84] Originally by: Frug I can think of a dozen alternatives to the current system Go on, then
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:56:00 - [85] Originally by: Elmicker Go on, then I'm not going to list a whole dozen, are you crazy? I have a job. The obvious answer is to fix the scanner so it auto updates when people enter scan range (so you don't have to click the button), and also so that it shows who is in the ships you scan down. I would say give certain ship types better scan ranges. A scout class ship could scan a whole system for people, say. A ping system, where if you want to know who is in a system, you have to do a ping (like sonar type of thing). It could have limited range based on ship type or effectively cover a whole system. It would tell everyone that someone is pinging and perhaps give the location of the pinger and give him the location of other people. As was mentioned earlier, adjust sovereignty so that people who own systems can set up scanners that identify everyone in the system. Taking out their scanners would suddenly be a worthwhile target. Scanners in a constellation could show them right on the map everyone in the whole constellation. See? I just think chat room scouting is dumb. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 16:59:00 - [86] Edited by: Leroy Payne on 13/09/2007 17:05:34 Originally by: Frug You're a very bitter fellow, you know that? You remind me of me when I make posts early in the morning. Except even I don't pull out the 'get a job' line on a video game forum. I mean, honestly dude. At least make fun of my avatar's eggplant shaped head. That would hurt me more. Take a deep breath. Now exhale slowly. Goood. Now go have a beer. Unless you're an angry drunk, which you sound like. So go smoke some dope. now you've finished your sanctimonious venting we can get to the point.... Quote: I said before, my problem with local is that it's a chat room and makes no sense. Ship sensors should have range limits and solar systems aren't rooms, they're space. It's a nonsensical tool for people who want instant intel. why is it nonsensical? there is even backstory which supports it. Stargates log your entrance to a solar system. Cyno jump-ins not appearing in local I could deal with. Also don't go too far down the common-sense route because there is a lot of things that don't make any sense in eve whatsoever. All chat channels are instantaneous irrespective of distance. Space exerts friction on your ship causing it to slow down. Your ships have a top speed under constant thrust. and on and on and on.... Quote: Quote: EITHER to put something that basically does exactly the same thing in its place... That is essentially what is being suggested, yes. A system which will allow people to hide to some degree, but would give you tools to find them that don't consist of a magical chat room. so take away one thing, and replace it with another that does effectively the same thing but in a slightly different way, because you have some warped personal conception of what should be realistic in game and what shouldn't. Great use of dev time. I'd rather they fixed my drones. Quote: Quote: OR to have nothing in its place and make hunting targets a really painfully dull business, with no real way of knowing if the target you saw 30 secs ago is still in system. Or if the 10 planet system you have just entered has any targets in in the first place, or if when you've finished your scan two targets have entered, or if the ship you saw on scan has a pilot in, or if that pilot just logged off and by the time you scan down the ship it will vanish. There's so many things wrong with it it's not true. You'd literally have to want to spend your whole day doing boring repetitive tasks, which is not why I spend my cash on eve. Perhaps you should stop playing eve if you feel the need to bring up your job and how you pay cash for it in every post you make. I don't see the relevance to the discussion. If it was free, would you stop this nonsense? Probably not. Why should I stop playing EVE, I'm happy with it as it is in this respect - It is you who wants something changed remember? Perhaps you should stop playing EVE if it isn't to your liking. If it was free I would be a lot less critical that's for sure. You could quite easily exchange 'spend my cash' for 'spend my time' - It's a turn of phrase indicating I am investing something into the game in the hope of receiving some enjoyment in return. I didn't mention my job in the post you quote or any post, merely that I work - it was you who felt the need to state their credentials while making personal jibes at me. Read into it what you like. Quote: I can think of a dozen alternatives to the current system that are not boring and don't require you to continually click a scan button. Now that you've finally acknowledged that I'm suggesting an alternative to local scouting, maybe you can start using your brain to come up with some alternatives as well. I don't acknowledge you are suggesting an alternative. You haven't suggested one yet. YOu are asking for someone else to implement it without putting forward a solution of your own.
Leroy Payne	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:02:00 - [87] Originally by: Frug See? I just think chat room scouting is dumb. And I think it works fine and isn't dumb, and really not much differnt in outcome to anything else you suggest. Stalemate. At least you have suggested an idea to back your clamouring for change though. You're improving.
Hyperforce99 Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:06:00 - [88] Something that could be done and this idea probably allready poped up before somewhere is to make local have a delay of showing people for about 5 seconds, people will not show up in local if they use a COVERT OPS CLOAK (or stealthbomber) or if they are gatecloaked. this will make covert ops ships invisible to your enemy as long as they are not spotted visually at a gate and cloak as soon as they decloak. While normal ships still appear on local (including normal cloak) A counter to not being able to detect covert ops could be the regular scan probe system, even though they will be extremely hard to find. Removing local is not an option as this would destroy eve's gameplay, it might sound like a good idea but removing local will BREAK EVE. uses of local: 1- in empire local is used to messure who is in the system and how many people are in the system (this is essential for when your fighting empire wars to because you really don't want to undock your loaded hauler when you know you got a group of war targets in system (without local it would also be Impossible to locate these people in empire (incl. especially if they are docked). This will make empire wars impossible. In Market HUB systems like Jita Local is used for quick auctions and a quick help channel, local is also occasionally used by noobies who need help (i've had enough of those in my EVE-Career) or the quick chat between people about anywhere in EVE 2- Lowsec, you will not be able to see if there are pirates in the system and pirates will not be able to find any possible targets (unless they actually bump into one) chances are big that if a NPCing player detects another ship on his scanner he will either cloak or do a logoffski and without knowing who your dealing with (character name) knowing if the person your hunting is cloaked, in system or offline would become so tedious it would ruine pirating or pirate hunting (same situation applies for the miners and mission runners. 3- 0.0, this would be the worst of all, you say it would add some realism to the game (well guess what... you said it "THE GAME" EVE was never build to be 100% accurate and removing local to make it more realistic isn't doesn't help gameplay. You would be unable to detect gatecamps up ahead, (and having to scan each and every gate for ships would become extremely tedious, boring and especially frustration (what use would WARP TO ZERO be at that point, if you even use it in 0.0 offcourse) Fleets would be unable to find eachother effectively, and if you warp around even if you detect someone or a group of people in the system with a scanprobe tracking them down will become impossible. Even if local is kept as a only show up if you speak system it would still wreck the game in so many ways, simply adding an exception to specialized ships like covert ops and field recon ships would be so much easier. I've imagined the tactics you are talking about and I don't see much good come from them. As a final entry, Local also levels the playing field of intelligence, it gives you the information about who you have to deal with and is a important tool in detecting enemy attacks or to co÷rdinate attacks. the on board scanner isn't a good replacement for it, and scanprobes take to long to give you accurate intel. cause by the time you got a fix on someone (and with the chance based system you can't even be sure you have even though someone might be in the system). Thank you for reading, and please Maximada... I got the feeling i've seen this post before, Stop making new threads over and over again, this topic has been discussed so many times, if you are spamming these messages, your REALLY not going to have much more effect than those few others who also think removing one of the games critical intel systems is a good idea.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:14:00 - [89] Originally by: Frug The obvious answer is to fix the scanner so it auto updates when people enter scan range (so you don't have to click the button), and also so that it shows who is in the ships you scan down. I would say give certain ship types better scan ranges. A scout class ship could scan a whole system for people, say. Not practical. It'd give different ships different levels of effectiveness and safety in different systems. Quote: A ping system, where if you want to know who is in a system, you have to do a ping (like sonar type of thing). It could have limited range based on ship type or effectively cover a whole system. It would tell everyone that someone is pinging and perhaps give the location of the pinger and give him the location of other people. A nice idea, but would never work. The hunted are limited to static locations such as belts, the hunters can go anywhere in a system and have no need to show themselves via this intel system, yet can still find their targets. Swings the balance massively in favour of the attacker. Quote: As was mentioned earlier, adjust sovereignty so that people who own systems can set up scanners that identify everyone in the system. Taking out their scanners would suddenly be a worthwhile target. Scanners in a constellation could show them right on the map everyone in the whole constellation. Again, a nice idea but what about lowsec? What about NPC 0.0? What about raiding parties into sovereign 0.0? Provides waay too much of a safety net. NPC 0.0 ratters (read: farmers) would be invulnerable, and 0.0 residents could rat and mine in 100% safety.
Eventy One	Posted - 2007.09.13 17:18:00 - [90] Not signed. (Yet another proposal to throw off balance in an otherwise reasonably balanced game)

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