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Very Important notice to ETC traders

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Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 16:22:00 - [91] Originally by: R Worker102 Direct buy now with is so so so so much better, you know your getting the lowest price. haha look how stupid you are --------- im ghey xD
fugazii Union Of Xtreme Military M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.03 21:04:00 - [92] Edited by: fugazii on 03/10/2007 21:06:54 Originally by: R Worker102 Originally by: fugazii Originally by: GM Nova Hello traders. As of today, trading ETCs for ISK outside our Secure ETC trading system is NOT allowed. Players found to be trading ETCs for ISK via EVEmails or any other method will receive an official warning on their account, and may possibly lose their ISK, depending on the circumstances. regards GM Nova Yes now that this rule is in effect all the isk farmers will stop, since after all they are rule abiding players of eve. Seriously though, the only people effected by this is legitimate players. "ccp: lets screw over all of the players in eve, instead of taking a slightly harder route, and targeting people actually breaking the rules" no the only people effected by this are legitimate players who buy time codes for isk and resells them for isk. They should not of even been part of it. Direct buy now with is so so so so much better, you know your getting the lowest price. As a former reseller, i can honestly say that that what your saying is completely wrong. The object of reselling is to flip your items, there is always going to be many many more gtc's out there than resellers can possibly buy, so the resellers prices has to be around the avg price of the going market, if they werent and were higher the reseller would accumulate a stockpile of gtc's and let himself be vulnerable to a price drop resulting in him losing much isk. Resellers dont buy up all the market then jack up the prices, they convo the market and haggle for deals, then sell at the avg market value. This is without connections of course, once you sell for long enough you start to know people who sell mass amounts of gtc's at cheap prices, which means your taking less gtc's out of the public market resulting in you having even less influence on the market. And thats just the open market, any half decent reseller doesnt even bother much with open market, many many times the amount of gtc's on the forums are sold without touching the open market. but ill let your imagination go further into this :) Its the 100's of non resellers who sell 1 or 2 gtc's everyday that decide the price, not the few resellers.
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:56:00 - [93] Originally by: Baxalusx I'd like to point out that since the reseller ban went into effect, 30 day GTC prices have risen by 10m ISK, from 180m to 190m. Actually the prices were 200 mil and over before the ban and getting a 90 day code for lower than 400 was extremely difficult. I'd say they went down by 10 mil and not up. guide to game time codes
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:03:00 - [94] Originally by: Leora Nomen Originally by: Baxalusx I'd like to point out that since the reseller ban went into effect, 30 day GTC prices have risen by 10m ISK, from 180m to 190m. Actually the prices were 200 mil and over before the ban and getting a 90 day code for lower than 400 was extremely difficult. I'd say they went down by 10 mil and not up. The effect you describe is the revived difference between timezones, as demand/supply fluctuates with no way to smoothen it out. Average price has indeed gone up. --------- im ghey xD
Haulers'R'Us	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:58:00 - [95] i don't not agree to not disagree with this rule. /shrug.
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.10.04 22:34:00 - [96] Originally by: Baxalusx Originally by: Leora Nomen Originally by: Baxalusx I'd like to point out that since the reseller ban went into effect, 30 day GTC prices have risen by 10m ISK, from 180m to 190m. Actually the prices were 200 mil and over before the ban and getting a 90 day code for lower than 400 was extremely difficult. I'd say they went down by 10 mil and not up. The effect you describe is the revived difference between timezones, as demand/supply fluctuates with no way to smoothen it out. Average price has indeed gone up. Those prices were going prices during prime GTC selling time, when there were a lot of sellers posting on forum and chats. When I shop for codes I certainly try to shop when supply is at its maximum to get the best price as a buyer. 200-220 mil ISK was going price on 30 day codes and 90 day codes were difficult to find even for 400 mil. Right now a lot of 30 day codes sell for 175-185 mil and it is quite possible to get 90 day codes for 380-390. This leads me to believe that prices dropped 10-30 mil. The rise in prices from 150 and 350 to 200 and 400 was very gradual and spanned several months. It hasn't even been 1 month since this announcement got posted, and even though i think prices went down, I also believe it is premature to say anything about average price going up or down just yet. It will be more obvious in 2-3 months time. guide to game time codes
taylania	Posted - 2007.10.05 13:14:00 - [97] Quote: Hello traders. As of today, trading ETCs for ISK outside our Secure ETC trading system is NOT allowed. Players found to be trading ETCs for ISK via EVEmails or any other method will receive an official warning on their account, and may possibly lose their ISK, depending on the circumstances. regards GM Nova Some quick thoughts on the topic: I have yet to use the new system, but will be doing so soon. Do I have to post in the forums to sell ETC, or can I still sell to just my corp mates, when they ask me in game. (all done through the new improved system) I am a little confused because I have been told that ppls account have been suspended cause they did not post in the forums when purchasing etc, despite using the new approved trading method. I have yet to make any type of profit doing this, but have only offered it, to allow the ppl I call friends to continue to play despite the fact that they can't afford to purchase a ETC in RL. (ppl who do not have credit cards ,18yrs old, etc) I believe the current market is around 190-200 for a 30 day, but I sell them for 160 to my friends and usually invest the isk back into to mods or equipment for the corp that they have access to. I would like to continue to do this, but without the hassle of posting in the Forums each time I use the new secure method. btw - I am an Affiliate ETC reseller---meaning if someone uses my link to purchase out of game for RL money, I get RL money either in the form of a discount or small percentage of the sale- I DO NOT DO THIS - what I do is purchase in RL for the same price any of you would and resell only to allow my friends easy access to ETC when they need it. --any thoughts on the forums issue would be appreciated-- thanks!
VERSTRANG1 Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.10.08 02:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Leora Nomen Originally by: Baxalusx I'd like to point out that since the reseller ban went into effect, 30 day GTC prices have risen by 10m ISK, from 180m to 190m. Actually the prices were 200 mil and over before the ban and getting a 90 day code for lower than 400 was extremely difficult. I'd say they went down by 10 mil and not up. this is a flat out lie. I bought timecards on a regular basis for 150 during US primetime. During Asian primetime the prices were around 180-190. Now? I have a problem finding them @ 190, as most go for 200. 90days always were around 380-400, anything over 400 was a ripoff. You either spent 0 time looking for the right price, or you are lying. I have been buying timecards for a long time and never paid 200 for a 30day.
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.10.08 03:19:00 - [99] Originally by: VERSTRANG1 this is a flat out lie. I bought timecards on a regular basis for 150 during US primetime. During Asian primetime the prices were around 180-190. Now? I have a problem finding them @ 190, as most go for 200. 90days always were around 380-400, anything over 400 was a ripoff. You either spent 0 time looking for the right price, or you are lying. I have been buying timecards for a long time and never paid 200 for a 30day. Consider yourself lucky if you were able to obtain codes for that price. Check out re-seller threads and you will see that they were offering more than 175-180 million ISK for 30 day codes and 375-390 for 90 day codes if you don't believe me. And these were low prices (notice these threads were edited in Aug and September of this year): http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=511830 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=489198 Check out seller posts from August or ask anyone else how much they had to pay for their codes the past 2 months. Yes, there would be an odd seller who sold codes for 150 or 350 mil but but it was extremely rare and his codes would be gone in 1-2 minutes. I've checked forums for prices from morning to evening USA times over the span of many months and I know what I'm talking about. If you don't believe me, I hope you'll believe the resellers at least. 150 was a price you'd get from generous friends, or if you were lucky, or if last time you shopped for codes was in april/may, many months ago. guide to game time codes
Meleil	Posted - 2007.10.09 01:32:00 - [100] I sense the beginning of a secret gtc reselling black market. I have never purchased a gtc for more than 180 mil isk, ever. All you people unable to find a "deal" fail.

Leimao Cluinct	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:02:00 - [101] 84 days ago, I bought a 90-day GTC for my account for 360 mill isk. Now the LOWEST price I can find is 400 mill.... Last month, when I renewed another account, I paid what I thought was an outrageous price of 180 mill for a 30-day GTC. I can't find one for under 200 mill now. I'd say prices have gone up...
Nagen	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:28:00 - [102] Edited by: Nagen on 09/10/2007 21:29:24 Originally by: Leimao Cluinct 84 days ago, I bought a 90-day GTC for my account for 360 mill isk. Now the LOWEST price I can find is 400 mill.... Last month, when I renewed another account, I paid what I thought was an outrageous price of 180 mill for a 30-day GTC. I can't find one for under 200 mill now. I'd say prices have gone up... Are you kidding? There is a post right now on 2nd page that says 30 day codes for 180 and on first page that sells 30 for 190. Last month I could barely get a 90 code for 400 and even pay 450 for one and I was paying 210-220 for 30d codes. This month I got a few 30d for 170-175 and just a few days back 90d code for 375 mil. Prices have gone down.
Reary Rikeyou	Posted - 2007.10.10 22:21:00 - [103] What is the rule on posting deceptions in here? (Not to be confused with direct outright scams) What's to keep fraudulent posters from creating an illusion? For instance: Posting fake buy and sells with fake transactions, making it appear as if transactions posted have actually occured.
entropykaos	Posted - 2007.10.12 09:00:00 - [104] What stops a etc Seller/Buyer from not converting it into cash? It just made it more inconvient to sell in a legit way.
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.10.17 09:51:00 - [105] Originally by: entropykaos What stops a etc Seller/Buyer from not converting it into cash? It just made it more inconvient to sell in a legit way. When you sell a code in the secure system it's applied directly to the account.. So there is no way to convert it into cash. Prices havent moved much since ccp changed the rules.. Some people are selling higher, some people are selling lower. ISK for GTC has generally follow'd the trend value of (EVE)ISK itself.. so if the value of ISK goes down, then the price of GTC's goes up (or in reality, the value doesnt change, only the number associated with the value).. I am sorry people think that there's a "time zone" attach'd to the forums as well.. I would like to ask them why they think that American post dont appear in Asian time zone computers? or Asian post dont appear on American time zone computers?.... The forums are not based on any region so time zone request (buy & sell) are not an issue of time. Resellers for ETC's are Bad IMHO.... The only way I would support it is IF ccp would allow time codes to be moved ONLY via the secure system (once in, never out) type of thing. Time codes WILL go up as the value of isk goes down.. With "Invention" now in place there's a lot of tech2 gear that's cheap and many people may not even need to support their iskflow via GTC's anymore, so it's possible that Invention will cause a huge price in GTC's.. Personally, the "Gooons" saying resellers gone makes the GTC price go up is silly, as some of the ebay people admitted buying bulk codes from goonfleet... I would much rather see ccp just add a simple trading system (like a share trading system) for GTC's.. The ingame market finds prices fairly well, and if we had a system listing tons of buyorders with tons of sellorders then the average values would be easy to see.
kenna holcolm Minmatar Roid-Raiders Anti-Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.17 12:59:00 - [106] Originally by: Amber Leonne Originally by: Brraiinnnssss This is wonderful news. I remember petitioning this not long ago because the resellers are trying to buy up all the gtcs to fix the prices on the market. I have to say way to go CCP! You took care of that issue pretty quickly after it came up. There really isn't any reason to trade GTCs outside of the secure system, and by not allowing it CCP gets to save a lot of resources dealing with banning scammers on that end and we don't have to deal with characters like Amber Leonne, or the isk to cash conversion outfits. I once heard someone had 800 30 day gtcs- Why should anyone ever have that many? Ironic username for one that doesn't use one... Resellers buy GTCs, thus it's completely illogical to pass accusations that it's in their interest to raise prices lmao. Whallops with duh Clue-By-Four The only people who benefit from higher prices are those whom buy the GTCs in the first place, it's resellers that forge the relationships with steady clients and conduct negotiations that lower their prices. ok personally this erks me. specially with the amber sit, i have done business with amber several times, and have had no problem with her. if people are willing to pay more to buy from her that is thier choice. i just liked being able to get rid of my gtc's fast. now that its gonna tale me about a month to move 20gtc's i dont think ill ever buy another one.. thanks CCP for ruining a good thing DOWN WITH THE YARRRRR!!! Defending Molden Heath So You Dont Have To!!!!! Recruiting all type of NON-PIRATE Corps and Players
kenna holcolm Minmatar Roid-Raiders Anti-Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.17 13:03:00 - [107] Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: entropykaos What stops a etc Seller/Buyer from not converting it into cash? It just made it more inconvient to sell in a legit way. When you sell a code in the secure system it's applied directly to the account.. So there is no way to convert it into cash. Prices havent moved much since ccp changed the rules.. Some people are selling higher, some people are selling lower. ISK for GTC has generally follow'd the trend value of (EVE)ISK itself.. so if the value of ISK goes down, then the price of GTC's goes up (or in reality, the value doesnt change, only the number associated with the value).. I am sorry people think that there's a "time zone" attach'd to the forums as well.. I would like to ask them why they think that American post dont appear in Asian time zone computers? or Asian post dont appear on American time zone computers?.... The forums are not based on any region so time zone request (buy & sell) are not an issue of time. Resellers for ETC's are Bad IMHO.... The only way I would support it is IF ccp would allow time codes to be moved ONLY via the secure system (once in, never out) type of thing. Time codes WILL go up as the value of isk goes down.. With "Invention" now in place there's a lot of tech2 gear that's cheap and many people may not even need to support their iskflow via GTC's anymore, so it's possible that Invention will cause a huge price in GTC's.. Personally, the "Gooons" saying resellers gone makes the GTC price go up is silly, as some of the ebay people admitted buying bulk codes from goonfleet... I would much rather see ccp just add a simple trading system (like a share trading system) for GTC's.. The ingame market finds prices fairly well, and if we had a system listing tons of buyorders with tons of sellorders then the average values would be easy to see. goon makes enough money that they dont need to sell gtc's dur. and they dont lose enough to have to cover huge costs.l now veritas immortallis might, with thier latest run in with CI. glad to know my enemies are fighting my enemies DOWN WITH THE YARRRRR!!! Defending Molden Heath So You Dont Have To!!!!! Recruiting all type of NON-PIRATE Corps and Players
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.10.17 13:04:00 - [108] Originally by: kenna holcolm ok personally this erks me. specially with the amber sit, i have done business with amber several times, and have had no problem with her. if people are willing to pay more to buy from her that is thier choice. i just liked being able to get rid of my gtc's fast. now that its gonna tale me about a month to move 20gtc's i dont think ill ever buy another one.. thanks CCP for ruining a good thing It took you 7 mins to sell 3 90d etc's and you got about 20% more than amber would have paid you for them.. Explain to me how ccp ruin'd a good thing for you?
kenna holcolm Minmatar Roid-Raiders Anti-Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.17 13:39:00 - [109] Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: kenna holcolm ok personally this erks me. specially with the amber sit, i have done business with amber several times, and have had no problem with her. if people are willing to pay more to buy from her that is thier choice. i just liked being able to get rid of my gtc's fast. now that its gonna tale me about a month to move 20gtc's i dont think ill ever buy another one.. thanks CCP for ruining a good thing It took you 7 mins to sell 3 90d etc's and you got about 20% more than amber would have paid you for them.. Explain to me how ccp ruin'd a good thing for you? it ruined a good thing for everyone dude. prices were going up not because of her, but because of demand, now you watch, give it about oh say a month and 90d's will be about 500-600m because people will stop wanting to sell them. then your gonna wanna make ccp get rid of the new system cause you will eb to poor to buy one to keep your aco**** active... wouldnt suprise me to see them sky rocket past that but im being nice. DOWN WITH THE YARRRRR!!! Defending Molden Heath So You Dont Have To!!!!! Recruiting all type of NON-PIRATE Corps and Players
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:53:00 - [110] Originally by: kenna holcolm Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: kenna holcolm thanks CCP for ruining a good thing It took you 7 mins to sell 3 90d etc's and you got about 20% more than amber would have paid you for them.. Explain to me how ccp ruin'd a good thing for you? it ruined a good thing for everyone dude. prices were going up not because of her, but because of demand, now you watch, give it about oh say a month and 90d's will be about 500-600m because people will stop wanting to sell them. Ahhhh okay I got it CCP Ruined a good thing by allowing you to sell your ETC's in 7 mins for 20% more.. They also made it worse for you because now instead of getting 400m for your 90d codes, your going to get 500-600m for them.... Yes, your argument about how they are hurting you sure does seem to be showing.

ForsakenSoldier	Posted - 2007.10.18 06:07:00 - [111] Edited by: ForsakenSoldier on 18/10/2007 06:08:13 Edited by: ForsakenSoldier on 18/10/2007 06:07:55 Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: kenna holcolm Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: kenna holcolm thanks CCP for ruining a good thing It took you 7 mins to sell 3 90d etc's and you got about 20% more than amber would have paid you for them.. Explain to me how ccp ruin'd a good thing for you? it ruined a good thing for everyone dude. prices were going up not because of her, but because of demand, now you watch, give it about oh say a month and 90d's will be about 500-600m because people will stop wanting to sell them. Ahhhh okay I got it CCP Ruined a good thing by allowing you to sell your ETC's in 7 mins for 20% more.. They also made it worse for you because now instead of getting 400m for your 90d codes, your going to get 500-600m for them.... Yes, your argument about how they are hurting you sure does seem to be showing. No what he is saying since youre so daft, is that now to sell them it will take longer which defeats the whole purpose of why he liked the timecard system as it was. He could log in, find a bulk buyer, and offload a bill worth of timecodes in 5 minutes. Now he has to sell each one as a seperate timecode which takes time. A caveat to this is that now people will be selling less timecodes because its A) more hassle, B) more time consuming and as such the demand will rise, while supply drops and increases the overall bottom price of the codes. Its a lose lose for everyone but those select few who wanted to *****the system for every penny they could get.
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.10.18 13:36:00 - [112] Originally by: ForsakenSoldier No what he is saying since youre so daft, is that now to sell them it will take longer which defeats the whole purpose of why he liked the timecard system as it was. He could log in, find a bulk buyer, and offload a bill worth of timecodes in 5 minutes. Now he has to sell each one as a seperate timecode which takes time. Jebezus.. Okay, so he offloaded 3 90d in 7 mins (view his history).. going by his 600m each idea, that's 1.8 bil.. in 7 mins... I think that's highly comparable to (log in and offload a bil in 5 mins) When selling the codes you have to do 3 things 1) type out code 2) type out the isk you want for it 3) type out the name when selling insecure you have to 1) type out codes 2) hope the buyer isnt going to stick you via petition 3) hope your not going to get bann'd when the person you sold to is caught selling isk 4) take a HUGE hit on price because the other person is going to be reselling (it's only fair that the reseller makes a markup, but why would anyone be so stoopid to NOT make a simple forum post)
ForsakenSoldier	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:39:00 - [113] Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: ForsakenSoldier No what he is saying since youre so daft, is that now to sell them it will take longer which defeats the whole purpose of why he liked the timecard system as it was. He could log in, find a bulk buyer, and offload a bill worth of timecodes in 5 minutes. Now he has to sell each one as a seperate timecode which takes time. Jebezus.. Okay, so he offloaded 3 90d in 7 mins (view his history).. going by his 600m each idea, that's 1.8 bil.. in 7 mins... I think that's highly comparable to (log in and offload a bil in 5 mins) When selling the codes you have to do 3 things 1) type out code 2) type out the isk you want for it 3) type out the name when selling insecure you have to 1) type out codes 2) hope the buyer isnt going to stick you via petition 3) hope your not going to get bann'd when the person you sold to is caught selling isk 4) take a HUGE hit on price because the other person is going to be reselling (it's only fair that the reseller makes a markup, but why would anyone be so stoopid to NOT make a simple forum post) Only problem. You are forgetting one part of my whole post. BULK BUYERS. With bulk buyers you didn't have to worry about scams, they paid first. With bulk buyers you didn't have to bother with anything but a convo, hey I have this many codes, wait for isk then copy and paste every code to eve mail. Granted if he was doing the same exact method of selling for secured or unsecured your right, no major difference. The difference comes into play that now there are no more bulk buyers because they can't A) resell the timecodes for a profit in ISK, or B) sell the timecodes for a profit on ebay. Does this matter to me they lost the ability? No, but it IS going to make the price of timecards rise overtime as demand goes up and the supply goes down. Will the market even out over time? Usually it does in real life so I can only imagine it will in virtual goods but that doesn't change the fact that this change was not helping ANYONE but ccp from losing money to timecode ebayers.
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.18 20:21:00 - [114] Originally by: DeODokktor Jebezus.. Okay, so he offloaded 3 90d in 7 mins (view his history).. Players who sold just a few codes typically went to the forums even before this rule came into action. But there are those who need to sell 10, 20, even 30+ codes. I've even seen a guy post that he's got 100 of 30 day codes. And way back in July I think it was there was a post with 700 of 90 day codes selling. These huge bulk sellers are rare, but even guys who's got 20-30 codes do not enjoy sitting there refreshing the page every 5 minutes, bumping their thread for days, then setting up individual sales, waiting for orders to come through because buyers sometimes bail out, reselling the codes that were not claimed, troubleshooting with buyers who specified wrong char or didn't spell the name correctly, etc. Using services of resellers they'd make less on their bulk sale but save on time and all this hassle, and to these people their time was worth more. This is also why you see that many GTC sellers are asking for some kind of a market put in place where you can just set up your codes and go away and people would come and claim them just like we got a market in EVE. Would make things a lot easier for both sellers and buyers.
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.10.18 20:41:00 - [115] Originally by: Sicil Fioet 'clip'..Using services of resellers they'd make less on their bulk sale but save on time and all this hassle, and to these people their time was worth more. This is also why you see that many GTC sellers are asking for some kind of a market put in place where you can just set up your codes and go away and people would come and claim them just like we got a market in EVE. Would make things a lot easier for both sellers and buyers. Yea, I really still cant grasp why people find it difficult to sell.. I dont think there's a lot to manage and if you view the post you often see someone selling 10 codes, will have 15-20 people who ask for codes.. I do think there is some hassle involved but If you really weigh it up then I think the benefits are clear.. The biggest thing I like is that the Ebay hole has been closed (even tho it's open'd a new problem)... I would LOVE to see time codes ran through a market system.. Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt mind doing reselling of ETC's, or even (god forbid) selling isk on ebay.. But one I find offensive to players, and the other isnt allow'd ;P.. CCP would get a shedload of love from users "IF" they made some type of market trading system, They could even force it as a layer on top of the current system to stop it from being hack'd/abused.. I dont see them doing that, and I dont honestly belive we'll see guys selling 200-300 codes like we did in the past. Plus there's a huge sence of irony, someone needs so much isk that they are willing to spend 3k$ on time cards, but then they'll take a big loss on value for the sake of time... Eve is a big place, people who need that kind of isk have a lot of pals, Resellers with no direct relationship to you still (and forever will) have no value in my eyes for this type of thing.
souhamy	Posted - 2007.10.19 23:23:00 - [116] supply
Arithron	Posted - 2007.10.20 21:50:00 - [117] The reason some players were spending $3k+ on GTC to resell was to make more isk, to resell.... No-one is stupid enough to invest that sort of cash into a game unless they are gonna make a Real life return on their investment (ie, RL dollars)... If not, I stand corrected...there are stupid people :)
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:05:00 - [118] My sense of smug superiority continues to grow as GTC prices go ever higher. --------- im ghey xD
Meleil	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:40:00 - [119] Originally by: Baxalusx My sense of smug superiority continues to grow as GTC prices go ever higher. QFT - I suspect it'll be some time now before prices hit a ceiling as well. ~Mel
Kiroko	Posted - 2007.10.23 02:57:00 - [120] WHAT do people NOT understand about SECURE ONLY?! Seems like half the people wanting to buy ETC's want to buy them "the old way" for even a lil more isk...sheesh. NO thanks!! not for an extra 10,20,30,40 or billion isk!!! I dont wants yer dirty ill gotten iskies!!!!! Getting tiresome explaining EULA over and over again... Hopefully they will get it... EVERYBODY STICK TO YER GUNS!!!!



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