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Very Important notice to ETC traders

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Terrin Moneymaker	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Amber Leonne Yeah, I'm despised, which is why I'm trolled once on average for every several hundred clients I've serviced. Can I get serviced?
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:56:00 - [32] Welp. CCP just ruined a lot of people's good services. For those of us who bought from people we knew and resold on eve-o, this puts us out of business. For everyone else, it's just going to mean less timecards (and therefore higher prices) until CCP figures out a non-time consuming way to bulk sell them.
Amber Leonne Gallente New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Terrin Moneymaker Originally by: Amber Leonne Yeah, I'm despised, which is why I'm trolled once on average for every several hundred clients I've serviced. Can I get serviced? Whatcha offering?
Terrin Moneymaker	Posted - 2007.09.20 00:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Amber Leonne Originally by: Terrin Moneymaker Originally by: Amber Leonne Yeah, I'm despised, which is why I'm trolled once on average for every several hundred clients I've serviced. Can I get serviced? Whatcha offering? Rofl, after seeing how successful you are, I am quite certain I can't afford you.
Wim'sei Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.20 04:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Wim''sei on 20/09/2007 04:41:50 There are many players who are in situations which require anonymous assignment of Game Time Codes. Game Time Codes are also a commodity which have a set value and are required by everybody at some point, but not necessarily but a given character. For some players, they are a flexible cash reserve that provides an effective means to bargain with other players, while providing a means for players to continue playing. By doing this, CCP is removing an effective tool for players. I don't object to a move that reduces the economic effect of ISK Farmers - ISK Farmers are problematic not only for the game play effect, but also for unrelated reasons of ethics. Even then I feel that this approach is too broad; many players will be negatively effected by this move given the limits of the secure time code trading system. Does CCP plan to address this issue? Would any future plans provide players with the ability of transferring time codes to other accounts without automatically applying them?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.09.20 05:37:00 - [36] Here is my guess, and if I were CCP I would do this: I m betting 10 Mill, that CCP will incorporate GTC Sales into the "My Account" part of the website. When? I do not know, but I am sure it is coming, it is the only logical way to solve some of the concerns people have, when it comes to re-activation of accounts using the GTC method. In other words, if you have an Inactive Account, you can still login into my "My Account" page that allows you to re-activate the account. I bet, they will include, "Accept GTC Transaction & Reactivate Account" option, at which point if the 'Inactive' character in game has the ISK, the sale goes through and account is active again. Of course, one difficulty would be: Which character has the ISK? Well, simple solution is to make an option in "My Account" page to designate a "Main" character on the account, just for such an occasions, in which case all is well, and will go smoothly. After all, we all do have our "Mains" on the accounts.
Sheikh Fahish Icelandic Jihad	Posted - 2007.09.20 05:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Jinx Barker Here is my guess, and if I were CCP I would do this: I m betting 10 Mill, that CCP will incorporate GTC Sales into the "My Account" part of the website. When? I do not know, but I am sure it is coming, it is the only logical way to solve some of the concerns people have, when it comes to re-activation of accounts using the GTC method. In other words, if you have an Inactive Account, you can still login into my "My Account" page that allows you to re-activate the account. I bet, they will include, "Accept GTC Transaction & Reactivate Account" option, at which point if the 'Inactive' character in game has the ISK, the sale goes through and account is active again. Of course, one difficulty would be: Which character has the ISK? Well, simple solution is to make an option in "My Account" page to designate a "Main" character on the account, just for such an occasions, in which case all is well, and will go smoothly. After all, we all do have our "Mains" on the accounts. This already works fine, so long as you have a friend or another account available to ask a seller to sell one to the inactive character you'd like to revive.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.09.20 06:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Sheikh Fahish Originally by: Jinx Barker ...Stuff... This already works fine, so long as you have a friend or another account available to ask a seller to sell one to the inactive character you'd like to revive. You mean if I have an inactive account, with ISK present on a character, and someone uses a secure method and sends that character a GTC, I will be able to accept it via the "My Account" part of the website? Wow, impressive. Then there are no issues whatsoever in my opinion. Things are good.
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.09.20 07:44:00 - [39] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Sheikh Fahish Originally by: Jinx Barker ...Stuff... This already works fine, so long as you have a friend or another account available to ask a seller to sell one to the inactive character you'd like to revive. You mean if I have an inactive account, with ISK present on a character, and someone uses a secure method and sends that character a GTC, I will be able to accept it via the "My Account" part of the website? Wow, impressive. Then there are no issues whatsoever in my opinion. Things are good. Yes, that's right. Note that CCP brilliantly disables your forums account if you're out of time, so you're not actually able to buy one after your account expires. So buy early, and buy often.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.09.20 08:27:00 - [40] Very very good change. And if you have isk on inactive char and don't have friends you can make trial account to ask for timecode thru secure system in forums or via private evemail/convo to seller. Friends/corpmates works better tho as many GTC sellers don't trust trial accounts (it's still several days wait to timecode offer expire in secure system).
Klaatu Nikto Frontier Combine Inc Sempiternus	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:21:00 - [41] Edited by: Klaatu Nikto on 20/09/2007 10:24:51 CCP, with disallowing bulk trades you should at least provide viable buy/sell system. I'm not talking about secure way, it's fine for single ETC but it's really painful when you have to spend whole day to find 3x30d for my accounts (almost always 3 first pages are sold out, then catching seller online, etc...) CCP, please provide REAL marketplace for ETC (not forum as it is now) where sellers could set up sell orders without poining buyer char (providing only ETC, character receiving ISK and amount of ISKs) so anyone logged to his/her account could buy it (as in secure way isk for Gametime). BTW, I'm wondering how hard this rule will hit ETC Retailers. Hope they'll have at least some influence on CCP
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Amber Leonne Originally by: Brraiinnnssss This is wonderful news. I remember petitioning this not long ago because the resellers are trying to buy up all the gtcs to fix the prices on the market. I have to say way to go CCP! You took care of that issue pretty quickly after it came up. There really isn't any reason to trade GTCs outside of the secure system, and by not allowing it CCP gets to save a lot of resources dealing with banning scammers on that end and we don't have to deal with characters like Amber Leonne, or the isk to cash conversion outfits. I once heard someone had 800 30 day gtcs- Why should anyone ever have that many? Ironic username for one that doesn't use one... Resellers buy GTCs, thus it's completely illogical to pass accusations that it's in their interest to raise prices lmao. Whallops with duh Clue-By-Four The only people who benefit from higher prices are those whom buy the GTCs in the first place, it's resellers that forge the relationships with steady clients and conduct negotiations that lower their prices. i made 80b reselling GTCs when i was icorion (now sold, better characters bought with my blood money~), and the period i made the most was when i teamed up with the other major resellers at the time and formed a pricefixing cartel why would i form a pricefixing cartel when that also drives up purchase price? because as net price increases, so does the net margin. people turned out to be willing to pay exactly the same margin for a card originally bought for 100m as one bought for 150m, and since the limiting factor in GTC resale profits after the 10b capital mark or so is amount of cards for sale, not capital, that significantly increased my monthly bottom line +) --------- im ghey xD
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:56:00 - [43] Originally by: Amber Leonne Yeah, I'm despised, which is why I'm trolled once on average for every several hundred clients I've serviced. No, Your troll's on because you admitted selling ETC's on Ebay that you bought with the "profits" you made from ETC selling.. Plus you admitted that you were farming Hulk Pilots to sell for isk to buy ETC's to sell on ebay... and well.... to a lot of us your a dirty isk seller.. There is no problem with the ETC system as it is, it needs no resellers. a large 3,000 player alliance needs you why? If they cant figgure out how to make a forum post (WTS 15,000 90d codes) then they should probably quit eve.
Amber Leonne Gallente New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:31:00 - [44] Originally by: DeODokktor Originally by: Amber Leonne Yeah, I'm despised, which is why I'm trolled once on average for every several hundred clients I've serviced. No, Your troll's on because you admitted selling ETC's on Ebay that you bought with the "profits" you made from ETC selling.. Plus you admitted that you were farming Hulk Pilots to sell for isk to buy ETC's to sell on ebay... and well.... to a lot of us your a dirty isk seller.. There is no problem with the ETC system as it is, it needs no resellers. a large 3,000 player alliance needs you why? If they cant figgure out how to make a forum post (WTS 15,000 90d codes) then they should probably quit eve. (BUZZER BLARE) ENH, wrong! Nothing new from you though
Rigo Vargas Gallente CHRONIC BRAIN SYNDROME	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:18:00 - [45] So here is my question. How do they expect to track such illegal activity? If they are simply watching for large transfers of isk and claiming those are illegal GTC sales then that simply won't do. I transfer large sums of isk to my main corp all the time once I have accumulated a set amount with this character I transfer it to my main character. Hopefully their tracking of this is much better than I anticipate. Otherwise we have a much larger problem. But I see an issue here that can be overcome as others have been overcome in the past. It will only be a matter of time before this issue is satisfied by everyone.
Undercover Palmtree	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:58:00 - [46] Edited by: Undercover Palmtree on 20/09/2007 18:58:27 Originally by: Rigo Vargas So here is my question. How do they expect to track such illegal activity? If they are simply watching for large transfers of isk and claiming those are illegal GTC sales then that simply won't do. I transfer large sums of isk to my main corp all the time once I have accumulated a set amount with this character I transfer it to my main character. Hopefully their tracking of this is much better than I anticipate. Otherwise we have a much larger problem. But I see an issue here that can be overcome as others have been overcome in the past. It will only be a matter of time before this issue is satisfied by everyone. Somebody will rat you out eventually. If you approach a GTC seller and ask if they are willing to trade the old fashion way all it takes is a petition to attract the GM's attention.
Arithron	Posted - 2007.09.20 21:39:00 - [47] Nothing new from any GTC reseller that has posted here...just the same old inflated self-worth etc. Funny how they think they are making CCP money by doing what they do (heh, did!). Trouble is, for every gtc they brought with isk and sold for cash, they were doing CCP out of a sale by taking a customer. Essentially, they were getting something for nothing....I'm not suprised that CCP has finally clamped down on them (congrats on that, BTW). Now I am just waiting for CCP to bring an option to buy GTC direct from them via secure system for RL cash (credit card/paypal etc) via the account section. Is this likely? Ari A character that resists the Amber Leonne's of the world at every opportunity...
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.21 16:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Arithron Edited by: Arithron on 20/09/2007 22:11:24 Nothing new from any GTC reseller that has posted here...just the same old inflated self-worth etc. Funny how they think they are making CCP money by doing what they do (heh, did!). Trouble is, for every gtc they brought with isk and sold for cash, they were doing CCP out of a sale by taking a customer. Essentially, they were getting something for nothing....I'm not suprised that CCP has finally clamped down on them (congrats on that, BTW). Now I am just waiting for CCP to bring an option to buy GTC direct from them via secure system for RL cash (credit card/paypal etc) via the account section. Is this likely? Ari you can buy game time with your credit card right now it's called a subscription --------- im ghey xD
Amber Leonne Gallente New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2007.09.21 16:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Arithron Funny how they think they are making CCP money by doing what they do (heh, did!). Trouble is, for every gtc they brought with isk and sold for cash, they were doing CCP out of a sale by taking a customer. Essentially, they were getting something for nothing....I'm not suprised that CCP has finally clamped down on them (congrats on that, BTW). Resellers don't cut out customers, they facilitate trade amongst them in a more timely/stable fashion while receiving a typically slight profit margin for their arduous labor and ever-tested patience. Reseller's constant presense helps educate those whom know nothing about GTCs when they just happen to catch a random ad that one's posting throughout the day. Every other day or three (Couple-few times a week), I have a convo where I'm fully orientating a new GTC supplier for the community by teaching them how to buy GTCs and sell them appropriately and safely. PS, your accusation seems to lean towards resellers being the ones exporting GTCs, which is illogical, as it requires a rather large amount of GTCs just to fund the purchase of a single one via the profit margins. In addition to that, it's typically those whom're trying to buy bulk bare codes from resellers that're the ones exporting the GTCs. That's been my experience/observation, which as we're aware, is quite substantial in this market.
Aesra D7	Posted - 2007.09.22 01:33:00 - [50] Yeah! Reselling GTC's that people would have otherwise been on the market for a cheaper price is a public service! And serves to decrease inflation. I'm sure if you were making bulk amounts of isk off this, this would make sense to you too
Arithron	Posted - 2007.09.22 11:08:00 - [51] Yup, as I said...GTC resellers have an inflated sense of self-worth! You did no service other than buy cheap and sell for more, making profit! Stabilise the market- NO! You pushed prices up, and essentially fixed the sell price of GTC artifically high. Sorry, you made good isk by reselling, otherwise why do it? Don't patronise us by saying you did it for love etc. Every 10 or so sales would have netted you a free gtc from the profits..for example, Amber Leonne admits to making 40bil+ from selling them. As for buying from the my account section with creditcard etc, I was referring to selling them to other players for isk via secure system (ie, still being able to buy a gtc and sell for isk). This is distinctly different than buying a gtc for isk and reselling it for profit (either more isk or RL cash). Ari
BunnyGunny Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.22 14:35:00 - [52] Having waded through the masses of crap spouted, singled out facts from giant steaming wads of total fiction I have the following to point out. Assume 1000 idiots in eve want to turn their real money into isk, buying outright is against eula, so they sell tcodes. Now, assume that a further percentage of idiots are resellers, resellers buy low and sell for profit while also buying masses of gamecards which reduces availability to gtc buyers. This CAUSES resellers to bump the prices up via natural economics. NOW if there are no resellers around to add on thier personal profit margin the gtc will become inherently cheaper over a matter of time as the supply isn't strangled by the mass buyers and moves much closer to meeting the demand. Economics with rocket science 101 Demand > supply = price up Supply > demand = price down Losing resellers will increase supply, would you like a calculator? Now go farm those belts up and get me my faction fittings...
Undercover Palmtree	Posted - 2007.09.22 14:45:00 - [53] Edited by: Undercover Palmtree on 22/09/2007 14:45:58 Originally by: BunnyGunny Having waded through the masses of crap spouted, singled out facts from giant steaming wads of total fiction I have the following to point out. Assume 1000 idiots in eve want to turn their real money into isk, buying outright is against eula, so they sell tcodes. Now, assume that a further percentage of idiots are resellers, resellers buy low and sell for profit while also buying masses of gamecards which reduces availability to gtc buyers. This CAUSES resellers to bump the prices up via natural economics. NOW if there are no resellers around to add on thier personal profit margin the gtc will become inherently cheaper over a matter of time as the supply isn't strangled by the mass buyers and moves much closer to meeting the demand. Economics with rocket science 101 Demand > supply = price up Supply > demand = price down Losing resellers will increase supply, would you like a calculator? Now go farm those belts up and get me my faction fittings... That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This is coming from somebody who hates resellers. What clown college did you learn economics at?
BunnyGunny Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.22 17:20:00 - [54] Whats the point of quoting an entirely different market system as a comparison? Honestly? The in game market has many points of sale, GTC's now do not. There is a single point of sale and I'm quite expecting the people who wanted to turn RL money into isk in the first place will still want to do that, except now they will sell directly to us eliminating "middle men" so to speak. Therefore supply will not change much, its middlemen that are pwned here :D
Captain Plumb	Posted - 2007.09.22 18:25:00 - [55] Edited by: Captain Plumb on 22/09/2007 18:25:52 EDIT:-> I cant spell :P I'm guessing that auctioning GTC on the forums to get the highest bidder, then selling them to the winner via secure service is not allowed then? I had a friend who auctioned some off before the secure service for much more than they can be worth atm.
BIGW1LLy	Posted - 2007.09.23 05:45:00 - [56] Oo
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.23 07:43:00 - [57] Originally by: BunnyGunny Assume 1000 idiots in eve want to turn their real money into isk, buying outright is against eula, so they sell tcodes. Now, assume that a further percentage of idiots are resellers, resellers buy low and sell for profit while also buying masses of gamecards which reduces availability to gtc buyers. This CAUSES resellers to bump the prices up via natural economics. NOW if there are no resellers around to add on thier personal profit margin the gtc will become inherently cheaper over a matter of time as the supply isn't strangled by the mass buyers and moves much closer to meeting the demand. Economics with rocket science 101 Demand > supply = price up Supply > demand = price down Losing resellers will increase supply, would you like a calculator? Originally by: BunnyGunny The in game market has many points of sale, GTC's now do not. There is a single point of sale and I'm quite expecting the people who wanted to turn RL money into isk in the first place will still want to do that, except now they will sell directly to us eliminating "middle men" so to speak. Therefore supply will not change much, its middlemen that are pwned here :D Supply should increase and here is why. ISK farmers realized that by converting ISK into game time codes they can make more $ from it. Right now they sell 1 bil ISK for about $45. If you convert 1 bil into codes you get about $92 - twice the money! Plus unlike for selling ISK directly they didn't risk having their accounts banned. Those players who hanged out a lot in the Other trade channel probably remember characters with isky farmy names and very bad english, White Foxes and Sexpot Yang (sp?) among others. They have been advertising there for as long as i can remember, offering to purchase codes in bulk the old way. I have little doubt that these were ISK farmers trying to convert farmed ISK into codes. I don't know the details here, but at one point they might have turned to Amber and bought codes for 40+ bil for which Amber got later pwned. Unlike resellers who put the codes back on the market for ISK, they were affecting the supply of codes available for sale for ISK by taking them out of the market and selling them for $ instead of ISK. Supply decreased and prices came up about 15% from what they were this spring, surpassing 200/400 mil ISK for 30/90d GTCs. Now that they cannot do that any longer, the prices will slowly, over at least a month's time, come down, since shortest code spans 30 days and current buyers won't be back on market before that time. Resellers do not affect prices unless they form price fixing cartels to buy out most of the item from the market. This hasn't been in place for the past 1/2 year and here is why. For one, this would take a lot of ISK and many players cooperating with each other to buy out all the codes sold each day. But most importantly, since introduction of secure GTC trade system many players stopped wanting to trade with resellers. Before the introduction of this system, there was a lot of scamming going on with codes and players saw established GTC resellers as people they can always turn to and not get screwed and have their money or codes fast, even though this meant selling their codes cheaper or buying for more. The new secure GTC trade system enabled people to trade codes with one another without the fear of being scammed and eliminated their need for resellers. Not that GTC resellers now did not have the capital to buy out the market and price fix, but the simply were unable to do so since spring. They were unable to control the supply for past 6 months, hence they had nothing to do with price increases since the new secure GTC trade system came into use. Having a calculator would not have helped you in figuring this out, but having any kind of experience in the trade before posting about it and calling other people idiots would have helped a great deal.
EvilChaotyK Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.23 18:38:00 - [58] Erf that s* , How can someone make proffit now ? If someone bought some GTCs at a lower and resell than high now how they can do ? -- Evil --**
Nobues Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:24:00 - [59] This is nothing but good news, as everyone is seeing prices are droping 20 to 30mil isk and will keep on droping on time codes. Reselling f-ck up the market so bad its just bad for everyone. I do fell sorry for any type of reseller, all I have to say is learn how to make real isk in game and just go some where else. Nothing but good things with this change. Don't lessen to anyone who says something other than that, because they where a reseller. Webhosting & Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:12:00 - [60] i'm gonna go ahead here and break with regular eve-o scheduling and say some stuff that isn't stupid: GTC resellers fill a role that should be filled by either the game or out of game resources: making the purchase and sale of GTCs convenient, fast and easy. ask yourself if you'd be okay with an automated system for GTCs, much like the in-game Market function - you probably would. Resellers fill that function because it is desired but missing, and the margin they take is what people are willing to pay for this service. i'll be the first to admit i milked this for all it's worth, but understand that no matter how much people *** about resellers, the fact that they are still in business is entirely CCP's fault just as much as the T2 lottery was, and is direct evidence that they are not only needed, but wanted, no matter how vocal you forum ***s are. one of these days i should write a GTC Manifesto xD --------- im ghey xD

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