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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1156
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Posted - 2012.01.23 18:48:00 -
[451] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Lex Alandar wrote: This thread clearly shows the motivation:
-tear collection -as many sansha mom bpcs as the bears will serve up for them
One is correct and the other is wrong. Guess which one you imbecile.
I know the answer :-) |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
526
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:01:00 -
[452] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Corina Jarr wrote: Right now, whether they care or not, Darius and crew are champions of antisociopathy.
No one mentions me. I think I will join the incursion runners and cry with them. I'm so sorry. I just can't ever remember how to spell your name, and I hate messing that up.
Krissada... now its in one of my posts so I can just check my post history. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:08:00 -
[453] - Quote
Lets do some math. According to CCP incursions are paying out 621 billion a week. Lets use 30m/hour as a conservative figure on how much a level 4 mission runner can make. That gives us a total of 20700 l4 man/hours a week. Assuming 23/7 uptime we get 161 hours/week. Since Incrusion's can't be botted no one player will be able to play 23/7. In total though the isk for incursions equals the same income generation (live load) per hour as 129 level IV missions being run in that hour. (=621,000,000,000 / 30,000,000 / 161)
What this tells me is that the isk per hour of running an incursion isn't as good as most people think. While the isk per hour actually running incursions seems great, when organizational and transit times are taken into account-not so much. The current idea of incursions as an isk generator seem to be generated by a couple of things.
1. Time flys when you're having fun. People of underestimating their total time commitment.
2. Big wallet flashies and bad math.
3. Folks flying faction ships with faction fits for the the first time and underestimating how much they could make with those ships running level 4s (it's more than 30m/hour).
4. Incursions are not being run evenly but at peak times. This means that a higher hourly reward is possible, but there is a lot of down/cycle time without heavy incursion running.
Bottom line 621b/week is a drop in the bucket for the eve economy (the Plex market in Jita churns 1.2T per DAY!). All this rage is a community issue being mistaken for an ISK one. If these shinny fleets split up and ran level 4s, there pilots would probably find themselves making more isk/hour. The enjoyment of flying with people (and unfamiliarity with use of heavy faction fits in L4s) is inflating the perception of profit. |
gfldex
283
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 19:10:00 -
[454] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:What im most dissapointed about overall is that NO ONE IS BLOODY WARDECCING US!! I mean come on people we make you cry, the least you could do is war dec us and fight us to vent your frustration!
Sorry dude, but Incursions and wardecs are not compatible. Neither are killrights. Incursions are pure carebear content.
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
Avid Bumhumper
Furian Necromongers
19
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:11:00 -
[455] - Quote
Krissada wrote:Lex Alandar wrote: This thread clearly shows the motivation:
-tear collection -as many sansha mom bpcs as the bears will serve up for them
One is correct and the other is wrong. Guess which one you imbecile.
This from someone who is having a fit over people making too much fake money in a game?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4520
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:16:00 -
[456] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Lets do some math. According to CCP incursions are paying out 621 billion a week. Source? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
9
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:26:00 -
[457] - Quote
Id be curious to see such data as well.
As far as i know, CCP havent published any information of how much isk is being injected by Incursions.
The 621b is probably just a number that someone thinks how much 3high sec incursions produce in perfect conditions.
|
Lex Alandar
Whiskey Prospects Luna Sanguinem
4
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:56:00 -
[458] - Quote
Katherine Starlight wrote:revenant BPCs only drop in lowsec incursions, hope that helps
they kill the lowsec ones too afaik.
Darius is a master at collecting tears, i wonder what he does with all of them, take a bath in them maybe?[/quote]
....and the more hisec incursions are burned through (despawned), the more lowsec ones become available
honestly you people really need to try more than one step in logic
They get rewarded, monetarily, for collecting tears.
edit: and get to throw up the "incursion nerf" as their reason
Why wouldn't they do it?
For the record I'm in favour of changes to incursions, I thought it was pretty ridiculous when I started seeing all these noobs with named-gun machariels farming stupid isk.
I hear though from the dedicated lvl 4 runners that they can easily surpass incursion isk/hour. Without the hassle of finding a fleet, contesting sites, or downtime waiting/forming up/etc.
The whole damn system is ******, and it shows in the 1% monthly inflation |
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:06:00 -
[459] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Jo Hei wrote:Elisha Starkiller wrote: so i did a couple lvl4's instead and dam lvl4's are boring... no one to talk to no fun, i was out of eve and back into BF3 in no time.....
This is my point. Instead of letting new or casual players enjoy the game the way they want to, the griefers killing off incursions are culling genuine interest in this game and so are preventing its growth. Mostly it is out of attention-seeking, "oh look at us, we're special!", but honestly, Dear BrickSquad, its time for you guys to stop crying about game features. Either play something else or HTFU. Well, given that its currently being controlled by an 'elite' cliche that utterly control who can run incursions, and will ban you for agreeing that just perhaps, they should be ended when the mom spawned because, well, thats how its supposed to happen(or the mom wouldn't spawn for days) who are utterly disrupting peoples homes for an extended period because they are deliberately prolonging the penalties to people who aren't incursion runners... Thats rather a problem, when you can be banned from this activity for disagreeing with someone.
BTL has a very democratic approach with due process. No one is banned just because. Also they allow you to have a CASE where you can submit information and appeal your ban. There are people getting un-ban all the time. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
766
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:08:00 -
[460] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jas Dor wrote:Lets do some math. According to CCP incursions are paying out 621 billion a week. Source?
I believe those numbers came from my calculations. However I am not certain.
Ammzi wrote:Mocam wrote:
Because they do break apart in levels and whereas you have 1 loss mail - daily there are mission runners losing ships to PvP across sec levels. They are NO more dangerous than doing missions.
It's relative. It's so unbelievably relative mate. One pilot may not have lost any ships in incursions ever while another pilot might have lost several faction battleships and t3's over the course of a few months. If you want to look at it as an average I doubt you'll be able to, because you don't have access to the necessary data, and again you might be able to although it won't be accurate. Either way, you don't know how many mission in EVE and you only have a vague estimate of how many run incursions on a regular basis. I could easily say the same about incursions. DAILY people lose ships to incursions across several sec level. Look for yourself in constellation ship losses over highsec, lowsec and nullsec. Daily losses. And what loss mail? I was talking about the guy's kills. All those kills he's been having the past couple of days account for BILLIONS of isk, all of those are incursion runners that have been griefed. Just because those who run incursions are much more public about it by having massive channels and a large concentration of pilots in one place doesn't mean you can automatically assume anything about them without having necessary data when comparing missioners and incursion runners. I'd say at peak time, a saturday or friday afternoon you'll be able to count a max of 500-800 active incursion runners at good circumstances. Let's just assume: 3 highsec incursions, each with 3 vanguard system, each with 4 fleets in them (extremely crowded). 10 (11) pilots * 4 fleets * 3 systems * 3 constellations =360 - 396 active pilots earning isk. Let's for that sake assume we have 4 assault fleets and 2 headquarter fleets: 20 * 4 + 40 * 2 = 160 pilots. At best let's assume a total of these 520-556 pilots are all earning an average of 70 m/hour. This is totally viable, since some fleets are earning 40 m/hour because of dreadful long breaks, losing sites, forming fleet, losing members or waiting for better sites to spawn while other fleets are earning 120 m/hour. So 520-556 * 70 m/hour = 36,4-38,9 billion isk is being created for incursions at PEAK time and EXTREME crowdness an hour in highsec, which only occurs at max 20 hours a week. The weekly average is much lower than that. Half a thousand pilots, all this because of half a thousand pilots? Seems quite negligible in my eyes.
Ammzi wrote:A reasonable ISK generation / hour from all incursions in highsec , (weekly average per hour) isn't way off when saying 10-15 billion isk is generated on average an hour from highsec incursions. So somewhere between 1.6 trillion and 2.5 trillion isk is introduced to the game on average from incursions. Ay - is this what is causing massive plex spikes? To put this in perspective that is enough isk to buy 3300-5000 plex's every week from the isk in incursions. So in the end that is 12,000-20,000 PLEX being able to be bought solely through incursion isk if my assumptions and calculations should hold. If we say that there is about 3000 regular incursion runners and they have 1,5 accounts on average that is 4500 PLEX's bought (if all pay with plex). This leaves 7,500 - 15,500 * 500 million isk = 3.7 - 7.78 trillion isk in their wallets!! What do the market experts say?
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:11:00 -
[461] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Jo Hei wrote:Elisha Starkiller wrote: so i did a couple lvl4's instead and dam lvl4's are boring... no one to talk to no fun, i was out of eve and back into BF3 in no time.....
This is my point. Instead of letting new or casual players enjoy the game the way they want to, the griefers killing off incursions are culling genuine interest in this game and so are preventing its growth. Mostly it is out of attention-seeking, "oh look at us, we're special!", but honestly, Dear BrickSquad, its time for you guys to stop crying about game features. Either play something else or HTFU. Well, given that its currently being controlled by an 'elite' cliche that utterly control who can run incursions, and will ban you for agreeing that just perhaps, they should be ended when the mom spawned because, well, thats how its supposed to happen(or the mom wouldn't spawn for days) who are utterly disrupting peoples homes for an extended period because they are deliberately prolonging the penalties to people who aren't incursion runners... Thats rather a problem, when you can be banned from this activity for disagreeing with someone. Clearly, the Banlists are stopping those who are banned from participating in the Incursion activity. Those who are banned could never kill a MOM.
Some people on the ban list are there for killing the MOM, others for killing Logistics, etc etc. BTL has un banned players that have killed MOMs in the past. They understand that people learn from their mistakes and are welcome back into the community. |
Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 20:42:00 -
[462] - Quote
Then failure to complete 0.0 incursions in your space should result in loss of
sov in the HQ system, and immediately changes sov to Sanshas Nation and the only way to take it back is to anchor SBU's and shoot the sansha ihub and tcu.
and loss of 1 level for each upgrade in all the other systems.
Oh yeah, sansha rats should spawn at moons and attack those billion isk per week moons.
ANYWAY
Vanguards need a nerf
Assaults and HQ's need a buff.
There is nothing wrong with incursions and the environment they provide.
Oh and dont give **** about 0 risk. Assaults and HQ sites can go horribly wrong if you do not have the right fleet.
// has seen logies die to alphas /// the fact that sanshas to not yellow box you before they shoot you is more fun. //// thinks all the incursion haters need to run the hq site - true creations rebirth facility, and the assault, nation commander strong hold when it gets a bad spawn and then look me in the eye that there is no risk in any of the sites. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1652
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:11:00 -
[463] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:Then failure to complete 0.0 incursions in your space should result in loss of
sov in the HQ system, and immediately changes sov to Sanshas Nation and the only way to take it back is to anchor SBU's and shoot the sansha ihub and tcu.
and loss of 1 level for each upgrade in all the other systems.
you're an idiot |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 21:18:00 -
[464] - Quote
Just a quick note, the 60bil/week number for incursions comes from the NPC news item posted by CCP and is an official number. We can argue permutations but I expect everyone here realizes that the level 4 number is a lowball. |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.01.23 21:22:00 -
[465] - Quote
Andski wrote:Ai Mei wrote:Then failure to complete 0.0 incursions in your space should result in loss of
sov in the HQ system, and immediately changes sov to Sanshas Nation and the only way to take it back is to anchor SBU's and shoot the sansha ihub and tcu.
and loss of 1 level for each upgrade in all the other systems. you're an idiot
NPC based risk is non-zero in incursions. That you only recognize PC based risk is not our problem. In this context it NPC risk is. Very important factor as it influences the isk/hour ratio of the sites.
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Signho
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.01.23 21:31:00 -
[466] - Quote
Life of an Incursion runner.
Farm Vanguard sites Buy Faction BS Buy Faction/Dead space Fittings Farm Vanguard sites Buy Orca Buy another Faction BS Buy Faction/Dead space fittings Farm Vanguard sites Buy Logi Farm Vanguard sites Run to forums and cry when people kill the MS and you have to move your stuff in your Orca to another part of New Eden. Farm Vanguard sites
risk vs. reward = very little
Now try doing that in Low Sec
Farm Vanguard sites Farm Vanguard sites Get killed by roaming gang Laugh Farm Vanguard sites Farm Vanguard sites Dock up due to large Pirate Gang Spin your ship Farm Vanguard sites Die due to gate camp Laugh Farm Vanguard sites
High sec is the most safe and should pay out the LEAST amount and the pay out should be more than LVL IV missions and no more than LVLVs. Your Incursion should end in a given amount of time and not farmed for multiple days.
If you die in a HighSec Incursion you are DOING IT WRONG.
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
15
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Posted - 2012.01.23 22:18:00 -
[467] - Quote
high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec.
And im not an idiot, i cant help if most of 0.0 dont know how to do incursions and form fleets to complete them. there are still 2 0.0 incursions up and no one is doing them. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
879
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:31:00 -
[468] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec.
And im not an idiot, i cant help if most of 0.0 dont know how to do incursions and form fleets to complete them. there are still 2 0.0 incursions up and no one is doing them.
Apparently threads like these make running the High Sec Incursions more enjoyable.
Then again, perhaps their conscience caught up with them and they decided to do a good deed for the population of high sec in general by keeping Incursion fleets from dragging out the process of returning these systems to normal. Revenge should not stop at the ship!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
55
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Posted - 2012.01.23 22:38:00 -
[469] - Quote
question is, what dose the average person do with their isk in a only high sec life style, I wouldnt mind incursioners so much if they used that money to go pvp or what not, but they just incursion more and buy shinyer stuff. im not saying everyone in game finds pvp fun, they make love building ships, but do the incursion bears get their "fun" from killing yet another vangaurd? |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
544
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Posted - 2012.01.23 22:40:00 -
[470] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec. You mean 30% less. Lowsec pays 50% more. |
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Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
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Posted - 2012.01.23 22:57:00 -
[471] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec.
And im not an idiot, i cant help if most of 0.0 dont know how to do incursions and form fleets to complete them. there are still 2 0.0 incursions up and no one is doing them.
So I hear you have no idea how null works. |
Brumi Viri
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.01.23 23:32:00 -
[472] - Quote
Quote:Dear Pilots,
Incursions were amazing while they lasted and magnified the appreciation have for Eve Online. Unlike 0.0 people I have a job that doesn't allow me to log in 24/7 to the game. As a casual gamer Incursions allowed me to earn enough isk for day to day activities.
I am hereby canceling my account.
I implore you do the same so CCP will listen and ban Griefing.
Someone please take charge of this movement and keep a log of all the people closing accounts.
Signed, Sad Hard Working Eve Pilot.
As per my thread that was shut down. This is how I feel, and I am 100% committed if CCP does fix incursions. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
163
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Posted - 2012.01.24 00:05:00 -
[473] - Quote
@CCP:
Please to be allowing the use of covert-cynos and bridging-to in hisec ASAP., kthxbai.
(This thread should give you ample proof why this is a Good Thing(TM) )
"Cyno's up, cyno's up--BRING IT, BRING IT, BRING IT, BRING IT!!" (DNSBlack) NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
55
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Posted - 2012.01.24 00:08:00 -
[474] - Quote
you forget the part where if CCP band griefing most the griefers will quit the game, while there may be less of us, we are they ones who generaly enjoy our time in game, i know allot of us are the ones who buy plex for the carebears with isk to suck up so I doubt ccp would want us gone any more than you.
Remember kiddys, being a care bear is a state of mind, not whar eve profesion you chose. Greifers dont want carebears gone,because then they have no one to extract tears from, and we dont want actualy productive memebers of eves society gone either, because hay they build the stuff we griefe you in.
in the end eve would be worse off than WOW if any party was lost, and the carebears wouldn't relise this till they are the only one in jita selling faction mods to themselves.
oh and to be relivant... Down with the incursion bears! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
163
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Posted - 2012.01.24 00:36:00 -
[475] - Quote
Andski wrote:Artemis Picoazaksat wrote:What is the difference in Risk-Reward between incursions and a -1.0 dead end system that is cyno jammed and the gate rapecaged by T2 large bubbles with a intel channel? i've never seen a dead-end -1.0 system in sov space, so heh also, get a spy into their alliance or a blue alliance, take a covops into the system via jump bridge, find ratter, point, light covert cyno for a bomber gang on a blackops done, cynojammers can kiss my ass
Boost BLOPs, NAOW!!
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
21
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Posted - 2012.01.24 01:14:00 -
[476] - Quote
Gazmin VanBurin wrote:question is, what dose the average person do with their isk in a only high sec life style,
I blow it on Crash, Exotic dancers & spiced wine
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
16
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Posted - 2012.01.24 01:56:00 -
[477] - Quote
Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Ai Mei wrote:high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec.
And im not an idiot, i cant help if most of 0.0 dont know how to do incursions and form fleets to complete them. there are still 2 0.0 incursions up and no one is doing them. So I hear you have no idea how null works.
let me see last time i was in 0.0 all i saw was, cynos, and roaming bands of nyxes and titans. sure there were normal caps but they were doing energy transfers to the supers.
But i digress, how hard is it for a 0.0 alliance to put together a few fleets to do an incursion. Seriously its not that hard to get 10 people together in an alliance of 1000+
Why hasnt XX Death nuked their incursion in 24 hours?
they have a few thousand people in their alliance how hard is it for them to form a fleet and just run sites fast, there are enough guides to do this. No seriously answer me this, how hard is it to form a fleet out there? 50 people can bring up the mom in no time running vans. If you can form a blob to do a "roaming gang" then 0.0 can surely form a 10 man group to run incursions which atm pay better than sanctums in 0.0. |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
34
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Posted - 2012.01.24 02:20:00 -
[478] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:Ispia Jaydrath wrote:Ai Mei wrote:high sec already pay out 50% less than low sec.
And im not an idiot, i cant help if most of 0.0 dont know how to do incursions and form fleets to complete them. there are still 2 0.0 incursions up and no one is doing them. So I hear you have no idea how null works. let me see last time i was in 0.0 all i saw was, cynos, and roaming bands of nyxes and titans. sure there were normal caps but they were doing energy transfers to the supers. But i digress, how hard is it for a 0.0 alliance to put together a few fleets to do an incursion. Seriously its not that hard to get 10 people together in an alliance of 1000+ Why hasnt XX Death nuked their incursion in 24 hours? they have a few thousand people in their alliance how hard is it for them to form a fleet and just run sites fast, there are enough guides to do this. No seriously answer me this, how hard is it to form a fleet out there? 50 people can bring up the mom in no time running vans. If you can form a blob to do a "roaming gang" then 0.0 can surely form a 10 man group to run incursions which atm pay better than sanctums in 0.0.
...
Okay, first things first. Nullsec does not work like highsec. If there is 'an incursion somewhere', not everybody in 0.0 gets to autopilot over and x up to see if there is a fleet available; incursion running is essentially restricted to an alliance's own space. And since there are only a few incursions at a time, there has never been an actual incentive to keep appropriately fitted ships available in case one just happens to land in your space (out of the 36 nullsec regions).
So for any given 0.0 pilot there is hardly ever an incursion available, and as a result incursion running has never developed as a profession in 0.0 simply because it's not viable. They do not have incursion FCs, incursion formup channels, or often even any sort of plan in place to deal with them.
Also, the population density is much lower. There are ~288,000 highsec pilots with access to incursions, while the largest 0.0 alliance has less than 4% that number.
Second, there is little incentive at an alliance level to get rid of incursions unless they happen to land on a beacon or jump bridge that can't be rerouted. This means that running incursions is not an alliance effort, but something line pilots would have to arrange themselves.
Third, some people in null are actually more interested in shooting people than shooting rats. Strange, but true.
Fourth, xdeath is in the middle of a giant ****ing war and just might have better things to do. |
gfldex
284
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Posted - 2012.01.24 02:27:00 -
[479] - Quote
Ai Mei wrote:Why hasnt XX Death nuked their incursion in 24 hours?
Because they would kill to have an entire constellation cyno jammed for 0 ISK.
More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4528
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 04:27:00 -
[480] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Just a quick note, the 60bil/week number for incursions comes from the NPC news item posted by CCP and is an official number. We can argue permutations but I expect everyone here realizes that the level 4 number is a lowball. Link?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
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