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Harris Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea.
Susan Acid	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. How would that stop macroers? And how much money do you think CCP would lose if they did this. Try again.
Zombie Network GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:04:00 - [33] There is (was?) a guy in Goonfleet who ran 6 accounts simultaneously. They were all named almost the same, were created on the same day, were all in the same corp, had the same stats and flew the same ship (Dominix's). He used an application called Synergy (I think) that takes the input from one computer and replicates it to all six at once allowing him to make them all do the same thing at the same time. He wasn't a macro user, although if you didn't know his setup you would think he was. How do you know this guy you are trying ot get banned doesn't have a similar setup?>
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. How would that stop macroers? And how much money do you think CCP would lose if they did this. Try again. One account per sweatshop worker.. I see profits.
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:16:00 - [35] U cant ever proove its an macroer Did ccp ever bann someone accused macroing and how did they know? CCP should start selling isk themselves... they could use the billboards for marketing tho.. hahahaha
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:29:00 - [36] I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. the fact is they are a problem and unfortunately will continue to hurt eve and may be it's eventual downfall. sadly, ccp and too many players take a short sighted view and tolerate (or even encourage) it. it seems ccp has handed empire mining completely over to the isk farmers/macro'ers because, i'd guess, they like pvp and dont like mining. this is further evidenced by the legalized isk buying through time cards. so to the op, no, i don't think they much care. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Ebusitanus Segunda Fundacion O X I D E	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. I was thinking much of the same reading several replies here. ------------------------------------------------ "Stop quoting laws, we carry weapons!" Pompey the Great to the defenders of a besieged city who were crying outrage.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. the fact is they are a problem and unfortunately will continue to hurt eve and may be it's eventual downfall. sadly, ccp and too many players take a short sighted view and tolerate (or even encourage) it. it seems ccp has handed empire mining completely over to the isk farmers/macro'ers because, i'd guess, they like pvp and dont like mining. this is further evidenced by the legalized isk buying through time cards. so to the op, no, i don't think they much care. Or... perhaps just putting this out there, ccp and many players believe you should actually, you know, have some kind of proof before you go on a ban spree. The basic logic of most of these people is "you know he's a macro miner, he's got a funny name, and is in a noob corp" "well, why does that make him a macro miner?" "because macro miners have a funny name and are in noob corps" I can see it now- player x gets a letter from ccp: Dear customer of 3 years, we have recently received reports that your name is kind of odd, and you are still in a noob corp. This does not conform to ccp's expected playstyle, so we have decided to ban you in case you're an isk-seller. Yeah, that'll bring the subscribers up to 300k quick smart
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:39:00 - [39] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 24/09/2007 14:43:08 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 24/09/2007 10:59:53 Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Hack Causality That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro. Or one guy running four accounts legally. How can you tell the difference? How can CCP tell the difference? Are you ******? The macros always have names that are in chinese, broken English/word combos that make no sense, or just ransom letters. So how is having a name made up of random letters breaking the EULA? Or speaking chinese? Quote: They also never respond to convo- or if they do it is in chinese. I tend not to respond in convos either. What rule does that break? Quote: Not to mention that it would be very easy to see that they are on a chinese ip range. Is being chinese against the EULA? Quote: A macro can be identified in seconds, this is no complex matter where you can mistake a player for a macro. These guys are also on 23/7. So what about that is violating the EULA? All your evidence is purely circumstantial and you can't actually provide solid evidence that whoever is manning those four accounts is sharing them, using macros, or violating the EULA for any reason. EDIT: Originally by:** Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. Yes, because we think that CCP will need hard evidence to ban someone for macroing, we're obviously all e-baying our accounts and buying ISK. Before you start your witchhunt or war on ~~terror~~ macros, maybe you should take a step back and consider that CCP cannot ban people based on circumstantial evidence. And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor.
WARBRO	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. that was my alts and my friends alt making iskies in our private alt coproration, and we need lot of isk for carriers and dreads which we just got skills for, and call me macro again and ill pod ur silly a*s way to make money a lot of effort, lot of work, not comes easy, just faster way than sit in belt for week say something again we have also pvp skills .......
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:30:00 - [41] i wish ccp would let us use macros so i can leave my character macro mining all day whilst i'm at work, and i could spend what little free time i have actually enjoying myself rather than running one of the tiny pool of tedious missions so i can afford to buy ammo. that would rock.
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Zombie Network There is (was?) a guy in Goonfleet who ran 6 accounts simultaneously. They were all named almost the same, were created on the same day, were all in the same corp, had the same stats and flew the same ship (Dominix's). He used an application called Synergy (I think) that takes the input from one computer and replicates it to all six at once allowing him to make them all do the same thing at the same time. He wasn't a macro user, although if you didn't know his setup you would think he was. How do you know this guy you are trying ot get banned doesn't have a similar setup?> Wow, I never thought of doing that. I guess I just wouldnt expect it to all work that neatly. Guess you'd need a really generic overview setup etc to make sure its right. I use synergy myself so I can handle 4 accounts. In WoW I have to use multiplicity because synergy doesn't tell the game where the cursor is so it goes spastic when I change screens. I guess I could just send the same signals to both. Thats cool. Anywho, as others have said. That picture proves nothing. We got a bunch of IAC guys in our systems who sit around in cloaking ravens and badgers, who all speak pinyin etc. Who would petition em? You need proof. Just harass em or move on.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.09.24 19:53:00 - [43] Synchronized movements - Gang Warp If I were that hardcore, I'd run multiple instances of EVE as well. It'd sure speed up a solo mining op. One to haul what my main mines with a Hulk. Having multiple characters all trained/fitted the same does save on having to figure out which character is supposed to be doing what. This way, all characters are pointed at a single target and focus maximum damage. Sure, he misses out on some of the more elaborate gang setups and bonuses from ewar and such, but cranking out overwhelming DPS isn't to be sneered at either. It's a decision that he's paying for. Now if he's running this 23/7 and always active.....Macro. If he's online 23/7 but seems to spend a few hours inactive, Doofus who doesn't log off when going to bed. No, I ebay nothing, nor do I buy characters. Originally by: Thanos Draicon And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor. Prostitutes and booze. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 19:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Helen Hunts Originally by: Thanos Draicon And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor. Prostitutes and booze. I NEED THAT COMFORT IN MY LIFE.
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Harris Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea. And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. /endrant
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Barashi Nugan And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. The game is about whatever the hell you want it to be about, really...sandbox. Unfortunately there's no way to limit the number of accounts per IP address without hurting people that play one account on a network, though I'm no IT professional.
Obeo	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Barashi Nugan And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. The game is about whatever the hell you want it to be about, really...sandbox. Unfortunately there's no way to limit the number of accounts per IP address without hurting people that play one account on a network, though I'm no IT professional. CCP is unlikely to touch this kind of suggestion with a 10 foot pole. Trying to implement it would be almost impossible. Even if it could be done making the assumption that every player in a household has their own computer and or IP address would be rather far fetched.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:01:00 - [48] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Thanos Draicon So how do you know it's not just one guy with 4 accounts? Like Thanos said, where is the proof that a macro was used and this is not just some guy who made several accounts at the same time and runs them manually which is perfectly legit. The syncronised movement gives away the fact its not a singular user. That is of course, unless he has 4 arms. Ever heard of gang warp? It allows you to warp a group of ships simultaneously. How about keep at range? Set accounts 2, 3 and 4 to keep account 1 at range, and you only need to give move orders to account 1, the rest will fly themselves to keep more-or-less in formation. No macros in sight, they're both functions built into the game client, and perfectly legitimate to use. Originally by: Hellspawn01 You said you convo¦ed them, right? If yes, why would a normal player with several accounts NOT respond? Because if they're flying several accounts at the same time, they're really rather busy and don't have time to talk to some random. Personally I never respond to unsolicited convos. Originally by: Hellspawn01 Sitting outside the station for half an hour sounds suspicious if they ignore everything. Not really. Gang warp from mission to station, go afk before docking because in empire space and NPC corps it doesn't really matter if you dock or not anyway. Then they're not there to respond. Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. Come up with a way to do it then. It's not hard to enter a false name when registering. You can easily get as many apparently-unrelated email addresses as you need. No point restricting by credit card number as they'll just use GTCs. My ISP handed me out 8 IP's as standard, so IP-locking is going to have limited effect, and likely nerf loads of people on shared networks. It sounds nice, but in practice it would be impossible to enforce. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
FFLTD	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:09:00 - [49] "And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you." Please stop telling me what this game is about. You're not my Parent, Boss, Priest, Dev, GM, Spouse, Roommate, Business Partner, Financial Advisor, Account Holder or any other significant person in my little corner of existence. Thanks
Aldus Extremis	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:26:00 - [50] I love how all of you guys are asking the OP to show proof they are macros. What tools do we have to obtain any proof? The only tool we have is to report suspicious activity to CCP and let them investigate. I think the crux of the issue here tends to be CCP not being forthcoming in the results of the investigation. Seeing those you've reported continue operation makes one feel like CCP has not taken it seriously. We don't actually know what they have done or are doing but if isk seller spam is any indication, they aren't doing enough. CCP either has the tools or can make the tools to obtain the proof you require. Look to them for proof. Macroing CAN be proven, just not by the user. Personally, I have left games in the past when macroing and isk selling/farming became to much to ignore and effected play. It's not there yet with EVE but it sure is noticeable. I really wish CCP was more active and vocal on this subject.
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Barashi Nugan Originally by: Harris Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea. And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. /endrant QFT. still, nothing is going to change. CCP wont do a thing because it would cost them money. Think about it: not only ISK sellers use macros, alliances do to: easy pos support, carrier fuel, etc. Kill all the automated alt accounts, and it costs CCP money. nothing is going to change. Ill be content in my little corp, doing little things in little BSes, and running ops in 0.0 for my alliance. CCP is failing epically at curtailing the soft underbelly of illegal practices in EVE. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Countess Markievicz Gallente 0-Deflex	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:19:00 - [52] Of course CCP hate macro-miners, they cry all the way to the bank
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Countess Markievicz Of course CCP hate macro-miners, they cry all the way to the bank I smell the next eve parody song coming up.... confessions of a macro missioner: /cue music oh cee cee peeeeeeeee, why wont you ban meeeeheeeee?!! ah spend allll mah dayyys, raking it in: why do you never send mah char to the bin? My chars called ihfduhlugld and he mines on auto, to be quite honest your measures are so-so /music OFF ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:57:00 - [54] this is how you end isk sales CCP, feel free to offer me isk rewards for my wisdom step 1 - locate your isk seller step 2 - follow the trail of isk back to the farmers, thats everybody who has ever transfered isk to a selling account, follow the isk no matter how long it takes step 3 - once you have identified the farmers look into their isk transfers and double check that its not an honest player, probably not very hard to tell really step 4 - ban farmer it wont be fast but it will be effective, especially when the farmers realise that they might spend 6 months training an account to farm and then its banned and gone the excuse for not banning macros is that "they arnt macros its a player controling multiple accounts and they might be genuine and honest" but i really dont see how somebody that spends their days farming and sending the isk to a sales outlet can pretend to be a real player
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:59:00 - [55] whats more damaging? not banning someone who MIGHT be a macro or banning someone who isnt because they might be? 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:16:00 - [56] i wasnt suggesting you ban people that might be macros, more suggesting you ban people that supply isk to the known selling accounts ccp can opviously trace isk transactions to people that buy and then remove the isk from the buying account so it must be possible to trace it back to the farmer ban farmers because they farm not because they might be macros
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:42:00 - [57] If CCP let the Pirates at them, they'd have a huge boon to business. Can you imagine all of the PvP people who would be logging in just to get a chance of knocking out the Macro farmers in Empire? Hell, I'd give up 0.0 for a month just to help hunt down macro farmers. We'd probably have player corps canceling war dec's so they could cooperate and knock them out. I'm psych'd! CCP let us at them!
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:43:00 - [58] CCP Ran deals on second accounts years ago, you think they are gonna kick their loyal players in the face and stop them being able to use their second accounts because someone, somewhere thought they saw a macro user? Riiiiiiiiiight. 1 client per IP.. you can tell a lot of thought was put into that idea.
Saphros Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2007.09.25 22:18:00 - [59] The only practical solution is to limit the time a character can be in a NPC-corporation. Or even better, increase the tax in NPC-corporations gradually as time passes by. I know many people would react strongly against this because they want to play solo. But this is a MMO and if you want to be a lone wolf then create your own one-man corporation, simple as that.
Saphros Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2007.09.25 22:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Mikelio Raijan CCP Ran deals on second accounts years ago, you think they are gonna kick their loyal players in the face and stop them being able to use their second accounts because someone, somewhere thought they saw a macro user? Riiiiiiiiiight. 1 client per IP.. you can tell a lot of thought was put into that idea. Perhaps one client per IP is not viable at this timeà And call me crazy if you like, but I think it would make EVE a better game. Hell, why stop with one client per IP? Make it one character per IP and you would solve so many problems at once!

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