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Hack Causality	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:47:00 - [1] Just to preface this, I know macro missioners don't affect me personally, but isk sellers just tick me off. I petitioned a group of mission macros whose program had stalled out, leaving them just sitting in formation in space. I presented this screenshot as evidence:http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Hack-Caus/macrogroup.bmp I got a form letter response, the contents of which I'm sure you're all familiar with; this I expected. A couple weeks later, I get the "how did we do" e-mail, which i took to be a good time to check on the macro characters. Still online, and still macroing. So tell me, eve community, does CCP truly not care about isk selling, or did I just get a particularly (insert insult to intelligence and/or skill) GM?
Elipsis Gallente The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:48:00 - [2] From listening to the latest GM Dev Blog, it sounds like they're really overwhelmed with the issue. -... CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:50:00 - [3] So how do you prove that they're macroing?
Hack Causality	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:54:00 - [4] They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group PURGE.	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:54:00 - [5] Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 24/09/2007 01:54:40 Sad ~Treb
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. So how do you know it's not just one guy with 4 accounts?
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. So how do you know it's not just one guy with 4 accounts? Like Thanos said, where is the proof that a macro was used and this is not just some guy who made several accounts at the same time and runs them manually which is perfectly legit. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:15:00 - [8] macro's always get away with it no point in petitioning to be honest. sure some get banned but only when there is alot of fuss on forums. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:16:00 - [9] In all fairness they could just be an EVE meta-gamer. There are only 4 of them and we all know how some ppl have many accounts going...although i still frown upon that. You could be right though, but i doubt there is anything CCP will do to stop a paying customer as dodgey as it may seem if they can't prove what they are(sadly the screenshot doesn't really prove anything substantial and certainly not enough for them to ban accounts) EVE is quite the conundrum as it doesn't actually condone doing the right thing anyway.
Hack Causality	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:18:00 - [10] That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Hack Causality That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro. Or one guy running four accounts legally. How can you tell the difference? How can CCP tell the difference?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:21:00 - [12] but thats just it, you "think" but PROVE it is a macro and not legit, and you can't 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Pirate Tom	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:35:00 - [13] As much as I hate to say it, there is no proof. All you have is 4 characters created on the same day in the same place. It could just as well be someone with too much time on their hands deciding they don't need a corp if they have 4 accounts.
Cadela Fria Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.24 02:36:00 - [14] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 24/09/2007 02:40:28 I hate ISK Sellers with a passion, everyone who knows me are very well aware of this. However what you have there proves nothing (The screenshot I mean). I myself, along with a friend, recently started up some research alts. A total of 4 characters (I have 2 characters, my friend has 2 characters). They were all created on the same date, have the same exact stats, they're training the same exact skills - They have the same exact standing to an NPC corp cause we're doing joint missions with them to raise their standing. So, I mean..where would you distinguish? By moving all at the same time? Having the same ships? We do that with our 4 characters... Never accept convos? I don't accept convos with my alts either. Ignore being targetted? - Well whoop de bleep'ing doo (pardon the language), but really..targetting? Frankly..me being targetted after having played this game for over 3 years, means diddly squat to me, and I'm pretty sure theres other then me who feel that way too. I think it's important to note that sometimes making the distinction between macro'er/isk seller and a legit player with many alts, is like trying to tell Dark Shakiri from one of those weird blue robots hides from DS
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.09.24 03:21:00 - [15] Have you ever considered that they might not be macros and just farmers? --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 04:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Have you ever considered that they might not be macros and just farmers? good point, perhaps they all just happened to undock at the same time and then there was a fire drill in there building Like Cadela Fria said, i guess it is possable that they are just alts of normal players, they have somewhat "normal" names which leads me to beleave that they are possabley just normal alts, but then that would me unfairley stereotypeing all farmers as being non-english speaking Useuley its stuff like this that to me at least is 100% confirmation of macroing. - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
w0rmy M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.24 04:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Thanos Draicon So how do you know it's not just one guy with 4 accounts? Like Thanos said, where is the proof that a macro was used and this is not just some guy who made several accounts at the same time and runs them manually which is perfectly legit. The syncronised movement gives away the fact its not a singular user. That is of course, unless he has 4 arms. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 04:55:00 - [18] are you calling us four armed freaks macros? 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Hack Causality	Posted - 2007.09.24 04:56:00 - [19] Edited by: Hack Causality on 24/09/2007 04:57:08 Edited by: Hack Causality on 24/09/2007 04:56:48 I've had them in my address book, and not once in two weeks have I logged on and had any of the four offline, or seen them go offline while I've been playing. Edit: If this is one dude legitimately playing, I admire his dedication and ponder his imminent death from sleep deprivation.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:20:00 - [20] Just because a person is running the accounts doesn't mean there's no macroing going on. The general modus operandi for sweatshop farming is that a few workers run dozens of computers using macros, and if someone convoes/etc, they walk over to the computer and respond. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Joshua Deakin Gallente The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:26:00 - [21] While it may be hard to prove that they are macros, it's very likely though. And I just don't understand why farming would be any more acceptable. It's not like the sweatshop farmers are playing the game as intended. In the long run they are part of what makes the game unbalanced (the effects of macroing/farming lead to undesired results).
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Joshua Deakin While it may be hard to prove that they are macros, it's very likely though. And I just don't understand why farming would be any more acceptable. It's not like the sweatshop farmers are playing the game as intended. In the long run they are part of what makes the game unbalanced (the effects of macroing/farming l ead to undesired results). Because technically we are ALL farming the game. We run missions, rat, run complexes, etc for the specific reason for getting ahead in the game and making ISK. Farming is part of MMOs... The difference is that you and I aren't selling our ISK off some website hosted in Brazil. If you can prove THAT, then they can be banned.... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Rump nisse	Posted - 2007.09.24 05:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Rump nisse on 24/09/2007 05:53:52 Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. erm, isnt this a bit circumstantial on the evidence side? None of those things directly indicate macro'ing, I agree it's suspicious, but hardly anything that can be acted upon directly and with impunity by the gm's.
Ghaelsto Kakram	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:25:00 - [24] Its basicly a cat and mouse game with CCP trying to catch people laundring ISK for RL sale. As long as loosers are buying ISK it won't go away. Best CCP can do is to give them a hard time. And there are always some dumbass players who risk their computer being infected by virri/trojans to buy macro programs on ebay and run them on their carebear macro account. That's also a cat and mouse game basicly and its a matter of time those suckers get what they deserve.
Stork DK Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:36:00 - [25] How do even know they should be macroing? It can just be a singly lonely dude with 4 accounts... Secondly CCP will never... NEVER accept any screenshots from players as "proof" Fail... -------------- Who dares to mod my sig?!
HottieWitAbody	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:38:00 - [26] CCP doesn't care, and mission 'macros' will never earn as much as the sweatshop workers running missions 23/7 (which CCP also does nothing about). With the improvement of drone AI maybe afk mission runners will be a larger concern, but most missions spawn in waves which will just result in those myrmidons losing their drones. If you would like an example of sweatship mission runners, go to Motsu/Saila/Irjunen. Add all the people with keyboard smash or bad english translator names to your buddylist and see if they ever log off for more than 5 minutes.
Tharsgaard Caldari Fukd up Beyond all Reckognition	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Hellspawn01 You said you convo¦ed them, right? If yes, why would a normal player with several accounts NOT respond? All you said is a hint to either mission farmers like DS pointed out or they are macro¦s with a macro problem. Sitting outside the station for half an hour sounds suspicious if they ignore everything. It is possible they were just testing out a spider tank and seeing how long it would run? Did you have effects turned on when you sat there for half an hour watching them? ---------------
VicturusTeSaluto	Posted - 2007.09.24 10:59:00 - [28] Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 24/09/2007 10:59:53 Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Hack Causality That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro. Or one guy running four accounts legally. How can you tell the difference? How can CCP tell the difference? Are you ********? The macros always have names that are in chinese, broken English/word combos that make no sense, or just ransom letters. They also never respond to convo- or if they do it is in chinese. Not to mention that it would be very easy to see that they are on a chinese ip range. A macro can be identified in seconds, this is no complex matter where you can mistake a player for a macro. These guys are also on 23/7.
Barthezz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:54:00 - [29] Seriously? No I mean it, seriously? So being born on the same day, flying the same ship, being in the same corp, doing the same missions in the same stations while gang warping from spot to spot makes you a macro'er? Seriously? Damn I didnt know that, seriously ! --- Dev's give us a lag-update!
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Gorthauran In all fairness they could just be an EVE meta-gamer. There are only 4 of them and we all know how some ppl have many accounts going...although i still frown upon that. You could be right though, but i doubt there is anything CCP will do to stop a paying customer as dodgey as it may seem if they can't prove what they are(sadly the screenshot doesn't really prove anything substantial and certainly not enough for them to ban accounts) EVE is quite the conundrum as it doesn't actually condone doing the right thing anyway. one account per person is what CCP needs to do. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Harris Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea.
Susan Acid	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. How would that stop macroers? And how much money do you think CCP would lose if they did this. Try again.
Zombie Network GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:04:00 - [33] There is (was?) a guy in Goonfleet who ran 6 accounts simultaneously. They were all named almost the same, were created on the same day, were all in the same corp, had the same stats and flew the same ship (Dominix's). He used an application called Synergy (I think) that takes the input from one computer and replicates it to all six at once allowing him to make them all do the same thing at the same time. He wasn't a macro user, although if you didn't know his setup you would think he was. How do you know this guy you are trying ot get banned doesn't have a similar setup?>
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Susan Acid Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. How would that stop macroers? And how much money do you think CCP would lose if they did this. Try again. One account per sweatshop worker.. I see profits.
Creature 3760	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:16:00 - [35] U cant ever proove its an macroer Did ccp ever bann someone accused macroing and how did they know? CCP should start selling isk themselves... they could use the billboards for marketing tho.. hahahaha
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:29:00 - [36] I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. the fact is they are a problem and unfortunately will continue to hurt eve and may be it's eventual downfall. sadly, ccp and too many players take a short sighted view and tolerate (or even encourage) it. it seems ccp has handed empire mining completely over to the isk farmers/macro'ers because, i'd guess, they like pvp and dont like mining. this is further evidenced by the legalized isk buying through time cards. so to the op, no, i don't think they much care. He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Ebusitanus Segunda Fundacion O X I D E	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:33:00 - [37] Originally by: Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. I was thinking much of the same reading several replies here. ------------------------------------------------ "Stop quoting laws, we carry weapons!" Pompey the Great to the defenders of a besieged city who were crying outrage.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. the fact is they are a problem and unfortunately will continue to hurt eve and may be it's eventual downfall. sadly, ccp and too many players take a short sighted view and tolerate (or even encourage) it. it seems ccp has handed empire mining completely over to the isk farmers/macro'ers because, i'd guess, they like pvp and dont like mining. this is further evidenced by the legalized isk buying through time cards. so to the op, no, i don't think they much care. Or... perhaps just putting this out there, ccp and many players believe you should actually, you know, have some kind of proof before you go on a ban spree. The basic logic of most of these people is "you know he's a macro miner, he's got a funny name, and is in a noob corp" "well, why does that make him a macro miner?" "because macro miners have a funny name and are in noob corps" I can see it now- player x gets a letter from ccp: Dear customer of 3 years, we have recently received reports that your name is kind of odd, and you are still in a noob corp. This does not conform to ccp's expected playstyle, so we have decided to ban you in case you're an isk-seller. Yeah, that'll bring the subscribers up to 300k quick smart
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:39:00 - [39] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 24/09/2007 14:43:08 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 24/09/2007 10:59:53 Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Hack Causality That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro. Or one guy running four accounts legally. How can you tell the difference? How can CCP tell the difference? Are you ******? The macros always have names that are in chinese, broken English/word combos that make no sense, or just ransom letters. So how is having a name made up of random letters breaking the EULA? Or speaking chinese? Quote: They also never respond to convo- or if they do it is in chinese. I tend not to respond in convos either. What rule does that break? Quote: Not to mention that it would be very easy to see that they are on a chinese ip range. Is being chinese against the EULA? Quote: A macro can be identified in seconds, this is no complex matter where you can mistake a player for a macro. These guys are also on 23/7. So what about that is violating the EULA? All your evidence is purely circumstantial and you can't actually provide solid evidence that whoever is manning those four accounts is sharing them, using macros, or violating the EULA for any reason. EDIT: Originally by:** Maxpie I love how the ebayers rally to the defense of the isk farmers/macro miners in these threads. let's be honest here, we all can tell who are the isk farmers. how many people in your corp have names like lkdjsflkj? not any in mine. we all know the factors, created at the same time, starter corp., blah, blah. Yes, because we think that CCP will need hard evidence to ban someone for macroing, we're obviously all e-baying our accounts and buying ISK. Before you start your witchhunt or war on ~~terror~~ macros, maybe you should take a step back and consider that CCP cannot ban people based on circumstantial evidence. And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor.
WARBRO	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. that was my alts and my friends alt making iskies in our private alt coproration, and we need lot of isk for carriers and dreads which we just got skills for, and call me macro again and ill pod ur silly a*s way to make money a lot of effort, lot of work, not comes easy, just faster way than sit in belt for week say something again we have also pvp skills .......
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:30:00 - [41] i wish ccp would let us use macros so i can leave my character macro mining all day whilst i'm at work, and i could spend what little free time i have actually enjoying myself rather than running one of the tiny pool of tedious missions so i can afford to buy ammo. that would rock.
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Zombie Network There is (was?) a guy in Goonfleet who ran 6 accounts simultaneously. They were all named almost the same, were created on the same day, were all in the same corp, had the same stats and flew the same ship (Dominix's). He used an application called Synergy (I think) that takes the input from one computer and replicates it to all six at once allowing him to make them all do the same thing at the same time. He wasn't a macro user, although if you didn't know his setup you would think he was. How do you know this guy you are trying ot get banned doesn't have a similar setup?> Wow, I never thought of doing that. I guess I just wouldnt expect it to all work that neatly. Guess you'd need a really generic overview setup etc to make sure its right. I use synergy myself so I can handle 4 accounts. In WoW I have to use multiplicity because synergy doesn't tell the game where the cursor is so it goes spastic when I change screens. I guess I could just send the same signals to both. Thats cool. Anywho, as others have said. That picture proves nothing. We got a bunch of IAC guys in our systems who sit around in cloaking ravens and badgers, who all speak pinyin etc. Who would petition em? You need proof. Just harass em or move on.
Helen Hunts Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc	Posted - 2007.09.24 19:53:00 - [43] Synchronized movements - Gang Warp If I were that hardcore, I'd run multiple instances of EVE as well. It'd sure speed up a solo mining op. One to haul what my main mines with a Hulk. Having multiple characters all trained/fitted the same does save on having to figure out which character is supposed to be doing what. This way, all characters are pointed at a single target and focus maximum damage. Sure, he misses out on some of the more elaborate gang setups and bonuses from ewar and such, but cranking out overwhelming DPS isn't to be sneered at either. It's a decision that he's paying for. Now if he's running this 23/7 and always active.....Macro. If he's online 23/7 but seems to spend a few hours inactive, Doofus who doesn't log off when going to bed. No, I ebay nothing, nor do I buy characters. Originally by: Thanos Draicon And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor. Prostitutes and booze. _______________________________ Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money. Any Questions?
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.24 19:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Helen Hunts Originally by: Thanos Draicon And if I'm buying ISK, I'd like to know why I'm still so damn poor. Prostitutes and booze. I NEED THAT COMFORT IN MY LIFE.
Barashi Nugan Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Harris Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea. And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. /endrant
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Barashi Nugan And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. The game is about whatever the hell you want it to be about, really...sandbox. Unfortunately there's no way to limit the number of accounts per IP address without hurting people that play one account on a network, though I'm no IT professional.
Obeo	Posted - 2007.09.25 17:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Barashi Nugan And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. The game is about whatever the hell you want it to be about, really...sandbox. Unfortunately there's no way to limit the number of accounts per IP address without hurting people that play one account on a network, though I'm no IT professional. CCP is unlikely to touch this kind of suggestion with a 10 foot pole. Trying to implement it would be almost impossible. Even if it could be done making the assumption that every player in a household has their own computer and or IP address would be rather far fetched.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:01:00 - [48] Originally by: w0rmy Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Thanos Draicon So how do you know it's not just one guy with 4 accounts? Like Thanos said, where is the proof that a macro was used and this is not just some guy who made several accounts at the same time and runs them manually which is perfectly legit. The syncronised movement gives away the fact its not a singular user. That is of course, unless he has 4 arms. Ever heard of gang warp? It allows you to warp a group of ships simultaneously. How about keep at range? Set accounts 2, 3 and 4 to keep account 1 at range, and you only need to give move orders to account 1, the rest will fly themselves to keep more-or-less in formation. No macros in sight, they're both functions built into the game client, and perfectly legitimate to use. Originally by: Hellspawn01 You said you convo¦ed them, right? If yes, why would a normal player with several accounts NOT respond? Because if they're flying several accounts at the same time, they're really rather busy and don't have time to talk to some random. Personally I never respond to unsolicited convos. Originally by: Hellspawn01 Sitting outside the station for half an hour sounds suspicious if they ignore everything. Not really. Gang warp from mission to station, go afk before docking because in empire space and NPC corps it doesn't really matter if you dock or not anyway. Then they're not there to respond. Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. Come up with a way to do it then. It's not hard to enter a false name when registering. You can easily get as many apparently-unrelated email addresses as you need. No point restricting by credit card number as they'll just use GTCs. My ISP handed me out 8 IP's as standard, so IP-locking is going to have limited effect, and likely nerf loads of people on shared networks. It sounds nice, but in practice it would be impossible to enforce. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
FFLTD	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:09:00 - [49] "And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you." Please stop telling me what this game is about. You're not my Parent, Boss, Priest, Dev, GM, Spouse, Roommate, Business Partner, Financial Advisor, Account Holder or any other significant person in my little corner of existence. Thanks
Aldus Extremis	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:26:00 - [50] I love how all of you guys are asking the OP to show proof they are macros. What tools do we have to obtain any proof? The only tool we have is to report suspicious activity to CCP and let them investigate. I think the crux of the issue here tends to be CCP not being forthcoming in the results of the investigation. Seeing those you've reported continue operation makes one feel like CCP has not taken it seriously. We don't actually know what they have done or are doing but if isk seller spam is any indication, they aren't doing enough. CCP either has the tools or can make the tools to obtain the proof you require. Look to them for proof. Macroing CAN be proven, just not by the user. Personally, I have left games in the past when macroing and isk selling/farming became to much to ignore and effected play. It's not there yet with EVE but it sure is noticeable. I really wish CCP was more active and vocal on this subject.
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.25 18:36:00 - [51] Originally by: Barashi Nugan Originally by: Harris Originally by: Cornucopian one account per person is what CCP needs to do. So long as all of my alt's skills can be directly transferred to my main character in addition to those he has already... and you can guarantee someone to haul for me at any time while mining... and loot and salvage for me while mission running... Oh and I need someone to scout for me when corp mates aren't available when I'm moving stuff around near dangerous areas... And someone to maintain the POS while I'm 50+ jumps away... Yes, if you can guarantee those then I'll go with the "one account per person" idea. And this is why it should be limited to 1 active client per ip/computer IMHO. I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. This game is about interacting with others, not being in your own corp where all 24 members are you. /endrant QFT. still, nothing is going to change. CCP wont do a thing because it would cost them money. Think about it: not only ISK sellers use macros, alliances do to: easy pos support, carrier fuel, etc. Kill all the automated alt accounts, and it costs CCP money. nothing is going to change. Ill be content in my little corp, doing little things in little BSes, and running ops in 0.0 for my alliance. CCP is failing epically at curtailing the soft underbelly of illegal practices in EVE. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Countess Markievicz Gallente 0-Deflex	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:19:00 - [52] Of course CCP hate macro-miners, they cry all the way to the bank
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Countess Markievicz Of course CCP hate macro-miners, they cry all the way to the bank I smell the next eve parody song coming up.... confessions of a macro missioner: /cue music oh cee cee peeeeeeeee, why wont you ban meeeeheeeee?!! ah spend allll mah dayyys, raking it in: why do you never send mah char to the bin? My chars called ihfduhlugld and he mines on auto, to be quite honest your measures are so-so /music OFF ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:57:00 - [54] this is how you end isk sales CCP, feel free to offer me isk rewards for my wisdom step 1 - locate your isk seller step 2 - follow the trail of isk back to the farmers, thats everybody who has ever transfered isk to a selling account, follow the isk no matter how long it takes step 3 - once you have identified the farmers look into their isk transfers and double check that its not an honest player, probably not very hard to tell really step 4 - ban farmer it wont be fast but it will be effective, especially when the farmers realise that they might spend 6 months training an account to farm and then its banned and gone the excuse for not banning macros is that "they arnt macros its a player controling multiple accounts and they might be genuine and honest" but i really dont see how somebody that spends their days farming and sending the isk to a sales outlet can pretend to be a real player
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:59:00 - [55] whats more damaging? not banning someone who MIGHT be a macro or banning someone who isnt because they might be? 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:16:00 - [56] i wasnt suggesting you ban people that might be macros, more suggesting you ban people that supply isk to the known selling accounts ccp can opviously trace isk transactions to people that buy and then remove the isk from the buying account so it must be possible to trace it back to the farmer ban farmers because they farm not because they might be macros
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:42:00 - [57] If CCP let the Pirates at them, they'd have a huge boon to business. Can you imagine all of the PvP people who would be logging in just to get a chance of knocking out the Macro farmers in Empire? Hell, I'd give up 0.0 for a month just to help hunt down macro farmers. We'd probably have player corps canceling war dec's so they could cooperate and knock them out. I'm psych'd! CCP let us at them!
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.09.25 21:43:00 - [58] CCP Ran deals on second accounts years ago, you think they are gonna kick their loyal players in the face and stop them being able to use their second accounts because someone, somewhere thought they saw a macro user? Riiiiiiiiiight. 1 client per IP.. you can tell a lot of thought was put into that idea.
Saphros Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2007.09.25 22:18:00 - [59] The only practical solution is to limit the time a character can be in a NPC-corporation. Or even better, increase the tax in NPC-corporations gradually as time passes by. I know many people would react strongly against this because they want to play solo. But this is a MMO and if you want to be a lone wolf then create your own one-man corporation, simple as that.
Saphros Minmatar Lone Gunmen	Posted - 2007.09.25 22:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Mikelio Raijan CCP Ran deals on second accounts years ago, you think they are gonna kick their loyal players in the face and stop them being able to use their second accounts because someone, somewhere thought they saw a macro user? Riiiiiiiiiight. 1 client per IP.. you can tell a lot of thought was put into that idea. Perhaps one client per IP is not viable at this timeà And call me crazy if you like, but I think it would make EVE a better game. Hell, why stop with one client per IP? Make it one character per IP and you would solve so many problems at once!
Delphi Denon The Final Resurrection	Posted - 2007.09.25 23:24:00 - [61] Edited by: Delphi Denon on 25/09/2007 23:25:46 I have just been accused of macro mining, I am a main character (so no post with your main!) have been ceo of two large corps, been in 3 large alliances and am currently the second in command. All I wanted to do was mine some trit in peace for the new corp plans to build capital ships. Im sat in a 0.9 system, just minding my own business, when a intey jumps into system and immediately bounces me, so I convo him to inform him that 1) I do speak english 2) I am at my keyboard and 3) Im not macroing. Well this guy decides oh yes you are, your in high sec in a hulk you must be macroing. So after some time of being called a "f**" and other homophobic names, and him saying he had reported me I did the same. 10 minutes later both him and his buddy started bumping my Hulk accross the belt to stop me mining. Now where in the EvE EULA does it say "You cannot mine in high sec in a Hulk" where does it say "You are not allowed to mine in relative saftey whilst sat at the computer?". I for one want to see the end of the macro miners, I am totally behind it, and I know that it hurts the eve economy, but where do you draw the line? Are select people using it as a reason to grief innocent players? And the next time im sat in a belt, I will have this character in his kitted absolution as a surprise if they want to bait me. /Delphi Denon Edit: Oh and both characters werent in the noob corp.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.26 00:26:00 - [62] Originally by: Saphros But this is a MMO and if you want to be a lone wolf then create your own one-man corporation, simple as that. This is also a sandbox, and if you want to dictate how other players want to play then go screw yourself, simple as that.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.09.26 00:56:00 - [63] They should just hand it over to the ISD or whatever the event team is called these days and then roleplay it out their asses as some pirate incursion as their black ships descend on the macro system laying waste to them all repeatedly all day long for no SS lost. Also Known As
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.09.26 01:10:00 - [64] Meet Xzin a long time multiboxer and player of DAOC & WoW, you have to wonder how many players have reported him for 'OMGMACROHAXXOR'ing. As stated earlier in the thread there are several legitimate methods for running multiple accounts, often the ways to do this will appear robotic.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.09.26 02:06:00 - [65] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 26/09/2007 02:09:14 Originally by: Tortun Nahme whats more damaging? not banning someone who MIGHT be a macro or banning someone who isnt because they might be? Not banning someone who is a macro. This is a private game, we don't have to be nice or fair to people. Saving the game is more important than anything else. PS Delphi, I would have accused you too. You're in a Hulk, a T2 miner designed to tank any rat in the game. Using it in a system higher than a 0.5 is a crime against humanity ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
Crazy Broad	Posted - 2007.09.26 02:13:00 - [66] I dont know if those are macroers or chinese isk farmers. But.. you can usually tell right away if theyre one of the "asian" races (partically caldari achura) with names like "jsjshdddd" "xjsid" "asooxi" etc, same join date, do not know english very well, either mining constantly in ice belts, or doing missions in mass ravens. Ive reported several, I got around 2 groups of them banned, but the rest are still around. I guess they havent started funnelling the money to the Isk seller account. Just report them again every now and then until someone puts some effort into actually investigating. It takes a few tries but someone will eventually start to give a damn ------------------------------ Originally by: Captian Internet This thread isn't delivery its digorno
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.26 02:31:00 - [67] Originally by: Verite Rendition PS Delphi, I would have accused you too. You're in a Hulk, a T2 miner designed to tank any rat in the game. Using it in a system higher than a 0.5 is a crime against humanity I got reported. While in an Osprey. Not mining in a can and had been in the belt a whole 30 minutes Then I got the same abusive language he was talking about. So I petitioned under harassment. About 10 minutes later they shutup and went away and I never saw them again. I think the GMs actually answered my prayer Seriously though, this type of behavior is getting common enough that even the Devs are calling it a "witch hunt". And the ones doing it don't seem to understand that the more they bother, harass and gank legitimate miners the fewer "real" players are actually mining and the more macros there are to take their place Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.26 02:49:00 - [68] Originally by: Verite Rendition Edited by: Verite Rendition on 26/09/2007 02:09:14 Originally by: Tortun Nahme whats more damaging? not banning someone who MIGHT be a macro or banning someone who isnt because they might be? Not banning someone who is a macro. This is a private game, we don't have to be nice or fair to people. Saving the game is more important than anything else. So we have to be fair and nice to you, but not fair or nice to anyone who might be wrongfully banned based on circumstantial evidence? I don't think anyone gave you the right to judge who we have to be fair to...
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.26 03:58:00 - [69] "The sky is falling, the sky is falling" Where's the proof that the macroes are ruining the enconomy ? I'd like to see some factual data, not just word of mouth, because someone says something, doesn't mean its true. No, I dont buy isk, no I dont trade GTC's, I have more than enough isk for my needs, 100% legit. Well, I did spend a couple days emptying a can full of ice for a team of Macroes, not by arrangement of course, it was there, and they weren't stopping me :) I've been accused of being a macro miner, in my mission Dominix, sitting in front of a station testing my tank/cap regen,.... while there are a total of 2 others in the system, them being the ones accusing me. Apparently I have a very isk farmer type name. Though, when they saw what I was flying, they didn't want to steal from my can and duke it out. Usualy the ones flying round accusing folks and harrasing are people who want to be pirates, but just cant cut it. They're just out to greif, to relieve stress, because they have some need to do so. ___ Too Many Anchored Cans
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.09.26 04:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Verite Rendition Edited by: Verite Rendition on 26/09/2007 02:09:14 Originally by: Tortun Nahme whats more damaging? not banning someone who MIGHT be a macro or banning someone who isnt because they might be? Not banning someone who is a macro. This is a private game, we don't have to be nice or fair to people. Saving the game is more important than anything else. So we have to be fair and nice to you, but not fair or nice to anyone who might be wrongfully banned based on circumstantial evidence? I don't think anyone gave you the right to judge who we have to be fair to... I don't need anyone to give me the right to do such things (or more appropriately, CCP). It's a private game, there's no need to be nice or fair to people they suspect are macro farmers, and that includes myself. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.26 04:38:00 - [71] so if they banned you because you appeared to be a macro you wouldn't whine? runs off to petition you as a macro 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.26 05:35:00 - [72] Originally by: Verite Rendition I don't need anyone to give me the right to do such things (or more appropriately, CCP). It's a private game, there's no need to be nice or fair to people they suspect are macro farmers, and that includes myself. Regarding permanent bans from the game, yes, CCP does have an obligation to be fair I believe. Player actions regarding suspected macros cannot be held to this obviously, but waging total war against macroers won't stop them and cause a lot of innocent people to be banned. It would be a bad idea.
Smacko Thug	Posted - 2007.09.26 05:51:00 - [73] Originally by: Barashi Nugan I can't imagine that CCP planned on people being able to use a horde of accounts to multitask EVE to this degree. And this is where youd be wrong. If CCP didnt intend people to use multiple accounts, we would have never seen the power of 2 promition.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.09.26 06:14:00 - [74] Originally by: Tortun Nahme so if they banned you because you appeared to be a macro you wouldn't whine? runs off to petition you as a macro Go nuts. When you find 4 copies of me in Myrmidons and my name is a bunch of gibberish, then yes I'm probably a macro. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.09.26 06:43:00 - [75] stop being mad about macros.. they are here to stay. stop petitioning them and hope ccp willl hunt them. its ccp job not our the players job... all u who degfended macror here.. roll ower naiv morons... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Grim Jim	Posted - 2007.09.26 06:49:00 - [76] Edited by: Grim Jim on 26/09/2007 06:49:57 I agree with you all, the only solution is to make players the arbiters of justice. We The People should be permitted to wield the banstick through majority voting! Funny name ? BANZOR I suspect you of macroing ! BANZOR You Are Looking At Me Funny! BANZOR You talk funny! BANZOR Only those sufficiently interested in the issue will vote... and apparently 30% of the character population have a strong desire to keep macroing in the game. Damn you democracy! I guess what we need is some sort of oversight group who protect the anonymity and "rights" of the players while investigating allegations of wrong doing in a fair and impartial way. Where could we find such a group? Oh Where? Oh mercy. Oh ffs. Damnit i'm going to get moderated for not posting with my main. Ah well, you wouldn't listen anyway.
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2007.09.26 06:53:00 - [77] Originally by: Grim Jim Edited by: Grim Jim on 26/09/2007 06:49:57 I agree with you all, the only solution is to make players the arbiters of justice. We The People should be permitted to wield the banstick through majority voting! Funny name ? BANZOR I suspect you of macroing ! BANZOR You Are Looking At Me Funny! BANZOR You talk funny! BANZOR Only those sufficiently interested in the issue will vote... and apparently 30% of the character population have a strong desire to keep macroing in the game. Damn you democracy! I guess what we need is some sort of oversight group who protect the anonymity and "rights" of the players while investigating allegations of wrong doing in a fair and impartial way. Where could we find such a group? Oh Where? Oh mercy. Oh ffs. Damnit i'm going to get moderated for not posting with my main. Ah well, you wouldn't listen anyway. u would then see goons ban bob ? or oposit... not an option
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.26 08:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Christari Zuborov If CCP let the Pirates at them, they'd have a huge boon to business. Can you imagine all of the PvP people who would be logging in just to get a chance of knocking out the Macro farmers in Empire? Hell, I'd give up 0.0 for a month just to help hunt down macro farmers. We'd probably have player corps canceling war dec's so they could cooperate and knock them out. I'm psych'd! CCP let us at them! How do you plan on doing this so that it only lets you at the macros, rather than just give you a free shot on absolutely anyone you want? The only way would be to have the GM's flag the macroers as shootable - and if they have enough confidence in guilt to do that, they should just be banning the account anyway. Originally by: Delphi Denon I for one want to see the end of the macro miners, I am totally behind it, and I know that it hurts the eve economy, but where do you draw the line? Are select people using it as a reason to grief innocent players? They always have been. Way back before macros were even a subject occuring to eve forum posters, there were people trying to get NPC corps nerfed, mission runners and miners forced into low-sec - generally any play-style that wasn't shooting other players (or more accurately sitting there letting them shoot you). These arguments rumbled on, and eventually ran out of steam. Then macros came to general attention, and all those same arguments (from a lot of the same people) were rolled out again in the clothes of the "holy crusade against macro-miners", with accusations of macroer being thrown at anyone who objected, or tried to point out the collateral damage the "anti-macro" changes would cause. Thankfully, the devs saw through this, and issued repeated statements that any "anti-macro" change would be unacceptable if it broke legitimate players as well as the macroers. Thieves, bumpers, gankers etc throw the accusation of macro out against their victim because it's an easy way to divide opinion and dissuade the locals from ganging up against them. Originally by: CharlieMurphy the excuse for not banning macros is that "they arnt macros its a player controling multiple accounts and they might be genuine and honest" but i really dont see how somebody that spends their days farming and sending the isk to a sales outlet can pretend to be a real player The problem is that players only see one side of that. You can see they are running missions/mining/whatever a lot, and with several accounts. But you have no idea what they are doing with the proceeds. However suspicious you may find those activities, playing a lot or with multiple accounts is not against the game rules (I've already covered how a lot of "suspect" behaviour can be achieved using legitimate in-game functions). Which is the whole point of having petitions and GMs. They can see what is done with the proceeds, and they do ban when illegitimate uses are found. If you don't trust them to do that, why would you trust a response saying no wrong-doing was found? ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Delusion 'Fel Minmatar Nefarious Ratiocinations Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.26 09:13:00 - [79] found a macro hunt group the other night, was a group of 3 ships, one BC two cruisers warping between belts looking for rats, warping to each belt in order, only stopping for 30 seconds in each belt (assumingly to await aggro if rats were around) before warping away to the next belt in formation. I bumped one into a really tight spot between some roids, taking care to ensure it was nothing a "live" player wouldnt be able to get out of (wanted to annoy a botter, not a legitmate player, after all). In the meantime a friend sat on the tails of the remaining two, watching them jump from belt to belt in formation systematically completely ignoring the plight of the 3rd member of their gang. After 30 mins trailing this macro group, got bored and left them to to it. Wish id petitioned it now, in retrospect :S
Jacque DeCoure	Posted - 2007.09.26 09:26:00 - [80] Why don't you.... and this may have been mentioned and I didn't see it anywhere.... WarDec them and find them in a mission with a set of Warp stabs and Jammers.. and let the mission wreck their day?
Sedist	Posted - 2007.09.26 09:49:00 - [81] Originally by: Zombie Network There is (was?) a guy in Goonfleet who ran 6 accounts simultaneously. They were all named almost the same, were created on the same day, were all in the same corp, had the same stats and flew the same ship (Dominix's). He used an application called Synergy (I think) that takes the input from one computer and replicates it to all six at once allowing him to make them all do the same thing at the same time. He wasn't a macro user, although if you didn't know his setup you would think he was. How do you know this guy you are trying ot get banned doesn't have a similar setup?> So wait, just cause this particular setup is not a MACRO. This is legal?? Using 3rd party programs to control multiple EVE clients, while only actually controlling 1 client physically is legal HOW???? As far as I know, using 3rd party programs of any form what so ever that effect anything directly into the game is not allowed. I don't care if its a program that makes every ship in space pink for fun. Much less control clients without actually directly doing physical input. I'd love to see some answers on this one. For my own clearity. Otherwise it's time to train more hulks and get that program.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.26 10:08:00 - [82] Originally by: Sedist I'd love to see some answers on this one. For my own clearity. Otherwise it's time to train more hulks and get that program. the answer is that unless you scan somebodys pc you cant tell if they are using any progams or not so if you want to do that there is nothing stopping you ccp likes these farmers, if they didnt they would do something about them but i fear a paying account is just too much to give up
Fantasia Freelance	Posted - 2007.09.26 10:12:00 - [83] Originally by: Hack Causality So tell me, eve community, does CCP truly not care about isk selling, or did I just get a particularly (insert insult to intelligence and/or skill) GM? IMO they truly don't care. That's why I get spammed on average once per day with the same URL to a site selling ISK. If they cared they would instantly delete all emails with that URL. See my in-game Contracts starting at 1 million--like a full set of +3 Basic implants and a Navy Raven Issue!
Sedist	Posted - 2007.09.26 10:32:00 - [84] I'm asking if it's allowed or not. That it's near uncatchable I can figure out myself.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys Monkey Religion	Posted - 2007.09.26 10:56:00 - [85] Why would you ever upload a .bmp? Seriously. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Red Desire	Posted - 2007.09.26 11:10:00 - [86] What if!! The GM checked the loggs and see this characters have been farming for 500 hours non-stop, with no breaks or one break at 40 hours when the power was out the dude was jerking of or he forgot. Would that entitle them to the title macro farmer?? Just a reminder this isn't court of law, so get them the f*** out of our game.
Darth Felin	Posted - 2007.09.26 12:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Red Desire What if!! The GM checked the loggs and see this characters have been farming for 500 hours non-stop, with no breaks or one break at 40 hours when the power was out the dude was jerking of or he forgot. Would that entitle them to the title macro farmer?? Well maybe it will surprise you but it won't entitle them as a macro farmers. F.e. it can be a shared dedicated mission runner account for a group of friends to earn isks.
Devious	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:05:00 - [88] Solution to this problem is simple. Those people that are in the newbie schools should not be able to access anything higher than a cruiser , no industrial's, no battlecruisers, battleships, mining barges..lets see how many macro runners run to the corps.. i know of 4 corps in eve that macro farm and they are WELL known to the point where they are at war 24/7. newbie schools are just for newbies people that camp them for months becuase they dont like corps shouldnt play eve online.
Devious	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:09:00 - [89] Oh one last point, as for proof. go google eve mining macro program...you wil be suprised when you find the download. CCP does nothing about this. they made it public release and yet ccp did not change the coding on their server to stop it working. same coding also does belt hunting and missing running, its ever so simple to create a macro program for these, dont beleive me'? ask the Turbine community how many years was spent hacking and recoding a microsoft game so that a out of game macro programs could be run inside with the full knowledge and support of the creators of the game.
Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:14:00 - [90] Originally by: Barthezz Seriously? No I mean it, seriously? So being born on the same day, flying the same ship, being in the same corp, doing the same missions in the same stations while gang warping from spot to spot makes you a macro'er? Seriously? Damn I didnt know that, seriously ! IAC? protecting isk farmers? YEP. Is that like your member corp, Deep Space Productions [DSP.] When we report the isk farmers you have, your leadership says 'who cares' and I constantly see IAC on the forums defending isk farmers..... Check out your OWN members: EENTRT Coin Oublie Moon LJY2 Mitsubishieclipse Lajikk And - let's not forget THEIR scouts and loot runners: sajk 1234 Trade expert perdant words best like The list goes on..... To make this even BETTER we found this crew in Vale, and started to eradicate them... and they drop dread guristas loot! I think before ANYONE from IAC say anything about isk farmers, they should look inside first.
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:23:00 - [91] Lets just face the music. CCP is either completely incompetent at removing macros/farmers OR just doesn't care. A few days in 0.0 and you can identify the ebay isk farmers and corporations very quickly, and yet, they are still there doing their thing day after day. I don't spend much time missioning anymore but I'm sure its no different there. Hell a simple log search showing someone ratting/missioning 23/7 is proof enough for me of a EULA violation. Remember this is NOT a court of law, circumstantial evidence is enough, you don't have to have the isk selling receipt for a 'conviction'. But why should they care? Lets think of it from their point of view. They get paid for those accounts, which are at least in the 1000's, and we still all play and pay. The only incentive would be a long term one, keeping vet players around for years knowing CCP is worried about the integrity of the game, but CCP already stated in past posts they don't really care as long as subscription numbers still go up. So they will token ban here and there, post a long anguished blog about the evils of ebay isk sales (while practically admitting they are hypocrites because of GTC sales though I give them cudos for admitting it) and yet things are getting worse on the isk selling side not better. Why do you think this is?
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:25:00 - [92] Originally by: Hack Causality They're all in the same corp, started on the same day, are sitting in formation outside a mission station, have the exact same standings, sat outside the station for about half an hour, ignored target locks and attempted convos. Plus they're all 2 days old in NPC corps flying myrmidons, which means A: the character was put together to be able to pilot quickly, and B: they're getting a huge amount of isk for a newbie from somewhere. u/f thats not enough evidence to proove macro use.
Elder Bob GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.26 13:31:00 - [93] Edited by: Elder Bob on 26/09/2007 13:38:23 Originally by: Hack Causality That's exactly what I think it is, one guy with four accounts making isk using a macro. What the fornicate does a macro have to do with it? I've run missions with 3 accounts at once and I'd be much more confident controlling 4 at once than automating even one of them. Automation would be more likely to get me killed, and more likely to get me banned.
kimish	Posted - 2007.09.26 14:19:00 - [94] hehe.. well it is with guarantee NOT a macro, since making a macro capable of this would be insane. it could be a bot program. but even here it is extreme, since there is a random difference on systems you need to go to, and no way for the bot to figure this out. (unless it is a VERY complicated program that have been made) all in all it isn't macro's just farmers/isk sellers. _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table."
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2007.09.26 14:23:00 - [95] you isk buyers make me laugh. so the op must prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, in a court of law that player "sdkfjlsd" is an isk farmer? give it up! you know who the isk farmers are and so does ccp. ccp do not care. they are getting paid and, well, eve is getting old and they have another game on the horizon. who likes mining anyway. stop being so silly and just admit that you can't enjoy playing eve unless you have lots of isk and you don't want to be bothered getting it in-game so you buy it. for that reason you want to keep the farmers so you can buy cheap isk. you can admit it, we already know.
kimish	Posted - 2007.09.26 14:45:00 - [96] Originally by: Jenna Shame Lets just face the music. CCP is either completely incompetent at removing macros/farmers OR just doesn't care. ... okey just tell me ONE, just a single ONE mmo that have over 100k members where it is not possible to buy the ingame currency by farmers (or the company itself). the fact is that no one are capable of removing them as long as law in difference countries allows it. if you wanted to remove farmers, then exclude any country where it is allowed to break the eula, and take every one that buy/sell to court and start bringing down the "farming firms". besides this there is no way to do it.. all others ways will hurt the normal players alot more then the farmers _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table."
Cosy Porandor	Posted - 2007.09.26 15:25:00 - [97] this about a player runing more accounts and pc remeber me a dude from daoc Linkage use h.264 code for your video and like that help eve-files
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.09.26 22:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Cosy this about a player runing more accounts and pc remeber me a dude from daoc Linkage Same guy I linked earlier, he changed over to WoW. Perfectly possible to run 3+ accounts without breaking any CCP rules, what with gang warp... group on me, and other such commands.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:13:00 - [99] Originally by: Red Desire What if!! The GM checked the loggs and see this characters have been farming for 500 hours non-stop, with no breaks or one break at 40 hours when the power was out the dude was jerking of or he forgot. Would that entitle them to the title macro farmer?? Just a reminder this isn't court of law, so get them the f* out of our game. For proper farming operations, accounts are expendable and thrown around in large numbers anyway. If the GM's started banning every account that was consistently played for over X hours a day, the farmers would quickly work out what was going on, run each account for X hours less 1 minute a day, and just open a few more accounts. Originally by:** Darth Felin Well maybe it will surprise you but it won't entitle them as a macro farmers. F.e. it can be a shared dedicated mission runner account for a group of friends to earn isks To be fair, account sharing is also against the EULA, so you'd be arguing about the reason for the ban rather than getting banned. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
The Fate Caldari Hammerfall Industries	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:17:00 - [100] Whole KOS alliances is a big macro mining operation!
Barthezz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:30:00 - [101] Originally by: Loyal Servant IAC? protecting isk farmers? YEP. Arent you eating your words now (/me points at the no-alliance tag). Farming isk is not against the EULA, neither is having multiple accounts with similar and/or weird names, neither is gang warping. Selling isk is against the EULA and CCP bans people for it. Also, the topic was that the people with similar names and/or weird names that used gang warp where actually macro's. I dont think anyone will deny that their isk farmers, but there's no proof that their using macro's ! So get your facts straight. And isnt anyone an isk farmer from time to time? I dont know how else you could fund your projects, ships cost money and I either need to farm that isk by shooting rats or farm that isk by doing missions or farm that isk by mining. Either way 'farming' is what probably 80-90% of the unlucky (e.g. not bpo t2 owners) do in this game to get money. Also, I have several accounts and I've been seen to gang warp 2 ravens and a domi to level 4's on occasion, I guess I macro too? --- Dont be a victim of what I do to survive!
Useless alt	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:50:00 - [102] Then again who knows they might have simply be one person that was called away for something else. I am sure at least 40% of the EVE community knows people that have more then two accounts... Heck I know people who make it as sport to collect as many as they can taking ownership when someone leaves. My thought is that if you are macroing you would not be going after level 2 misions there is simply no money in them. Then again what do I know...
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.27 09:13:00 - [103] Originally by: Mikelio Raijan Meet Xzin a long time multiboxer and player of DAOC & WoW, you have to wonder how many players have reported him for 'OMGMACROHAXXOR'ing. As stated earlier in the thread there are several legitimate methods for running multiple accounts, often the ways to do this will appear robotic. I've had my ass handed to me by the Zins. There for a while, he was working on 40-boxing and soloing a raid dungeon. I think it didn't lend itself well to central control. And yes, there was a OMG MACRO thread at least once a week where some nooblet accused him of cheating. And the answer to finding the less sophisticated macro ops: check all 23/7 accounts for % of time idle. If it's less than what is needed to keep a human from dying, instaban. Shared characters are a violation of the EULA anyways, so there's your out if you accidentally nail a 0.0 corp's shared mission ***** account.
Gavin Marcus	Posted - 2007.10.03 17:16:00 - [104] Perhaps CCP could just concentrate on watching money transfers between characters. Or better yet you can attack and destroy their ships. Isn't that a large part of what the game is about anyway?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.03 17:57:00 - [105] Originally by: HottieWitAbody If you would like an example of sweatship mission runners, go to Motsu/Saila/Irjunen. Add all the people with keyboard smash or bad english translator names to your buddylist and see if they ever log off for more than 5 minutes. mm there are some titan pilots that match on that description. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.03 18:57:00 - [106] This thread makes me sad...people are far too willing to wave the ban-peen around without actual evidence of wrongdoing. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
ollobrains Mission Invasion Squad	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:06:00 - [107] close motsu and saila Group mission invasions
Laura Steel The Chaotic Order Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:27:00 - [108] First link on google ----
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:34:00 - [109] Originally by: Laura Steel Link which shouldn't have been posted here Topic is about Macro Missioning (Which is really just not possible), said mining bot would probably fail somewhat at a lvl4.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:35:00 - [110] Originally by: Laura Steel (EVIL link) You're not helping. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Lord Wiggin	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:46:00 - [111] After reading 4 pages of this, I have to admit I am highly amused! Clearly most of you don't understand the issues involved. First it's almost impossible to prove Macroing withoout some intensive review. How many manhours would you like to have them spend on this? What would you like to have them sacrifice to address this issue? Lets say that a person could review a complaint review the suspected macroer and make a competent decision in 1 hour. How many of these complaints do you think they get? Are you getting the idea? How much money should a company spend chasing this issue, that will NEVER have a resolution? For every one they ban 10 more new accounts will be created. So your stuck with the statusquo, fighting a never ending battle with resources that could be used to build a better game. The most amusing thing is that I don't see how ISK farmers are seriously affecting the game. It's so easy to make money in this game that I hardly see the need to buy it. In my first week I had 3 Frigates and a destroyer simply by mining, I've never been short on money for anything I've ever needed. Perhaps it's different when your far up the ladder, but since you can make more, I have to wonder just how badly ISK sellers are even used. If you base that on the price of outside ISK, I'd say there's not much call for it, after looking at a few places that spam ISK selling it seems clear that it's not all that hot an item. Finally, just how much effect do you guys think ISK sales have on this game? You can't buy skill training points, that's all about time. And since this game is based so much on skill training, and training is just about time, how do ISK seelers affect this? Ender

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