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Rev 3 "patch" (2+ GB size) distribution issue: can we have a torrent ?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Occara	Posted - 2007.09.30 00:24:00 - [121] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 29/09/2007 23:38:37 Wow, thanks CCP Explorer for an AWESOME reply. A few questions though. When you say "various clever trickery", I assume you mean lossy and/or insanely slow-encryption lossless compression (especially for textures, I suppose), or maybe procedural texture generation, or other things I probably didn't even think about. But... I also assume you're talking "1.3 GB installer", and a much larger "installed" client, say 5, maybe even 8 GB ? So, how big will the new client be after installation ? Also, how much space will it require on the C: drive to decompress ? The C: drive question is a "reminder" of the good old days of my first (and only) succesfull EVE client install from the "full client" download... I always just copied the installed client afterwards each and every time. Back then, I had to uninstall a lot of stuff and move the swap file to D just to be able to install EVE, because, like (probably many) other people, I keep my drive partitioned, with a relatively small first partition. Finally, I "get" the concept that you like to rely on Limelight, but what harm would a single "official CCP seed" do, on top of the CDN alternative... at least for the first few days/weeks after launch ? You wouldn't even have to use your own tracker, any public one would do fine, as long as you confirm the hash to be "genuine" and you confirm you are the original .torrent seeders. I mean, even if you use one of your office PCs to seed at only 1 Mbps, I am pretty sure a lot of people would gladly keep seeding after they download the client. if i see the word procedural on the eve board one more time....
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.30 02:02:00 - [122] Well, once in a blue moon, it's actually appropriate _ [CNVTF] is recruiting \| Char creation guide \| Stack-nerfing explained
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.09.30 02:02:00 - [123] Yes please.
Krazy Bitsch	Posted - 2007.09.30 04:42:00 - [124] Originally by: MotherMoon I demand we all get on our knees right now and thank CCP for having a real time skill training system. and i command you to quit with your fanboi ways....whats thanking them for Real Time skill training have to do witht the OP?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.30 04:46:00 - [125] Originally by: Krazy Bitsch Originally by: MotherMoon I demand we all get on our knees right now and thank CCP for having a real time skill training system. and i command you to quit with your fanboi ways....whats thanking them for Real Time skill training have to do witht the OP? who are you and why should we care what you think about "fanbois?" Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.30 09:45:00 - [126] Yeah, that post was kind of out of nowhere... By the way, Wrangler, since you're awake and all spiffy and stuff, can you poke Explorer when he comes in about this, please ? _ [CNVTF] is recruiting \| Char creation guide \| Stack-nerfing explained
Karanth Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.09.30 09:50:00 - [127] Well, I am wondering, how will the size bump and "creative tricks" affect clients that are slated for other platforms? I'm sure this will affect them in some large way. Free beer for those who mod my sig! There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth pushes the other mods out of the way Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips IT WAS ME, MUHAHAHA. -Hango How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn always fashionably late - Deckard Better late than never! -Sahwoolo

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2007.09.30 10:20:00 - [128] Originally by: Akita T When you say "various clever trickery", I assume you mean lossy and/or insanely slow-encryption lossless compression (especially for textures, I suppose), or maybe procedural texture generation We've replaced file formats, rearranged the data and done some clever packing, upgraded all our compression and install creation tools and applied all the lossless compression available. We have not resorted to lossy compression and there is no procedural generation. Quote: But... I also assume you're talking "1.3 GB installer", and a much larger "installed" client, say 5, maybe even 8 GB? 3-8 GB is the ballpark. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.30 10:28:00 - [129] I'd just like to say that seeing patch sizes and installed client sizes weeks before the update is available, as well as any sort of serious technical discussion of the technology side of things, from the mouth of an employee reminds me yet again why I play this game. There are about 5-7 computers I have access to that get regluarly updated with EVE, so this next patch is gonna be a proper ****. Here's hoping the client upgrades are worth the ~9 gigs of download. ^_^
Tetra gramaton Gallente The Imperial Armada The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.09.30 10:38:00 - [130] Can I suggest it be given out to as many ISP as possible.. Nothing like having to download that much and not counting on your down load :) Plus normally your local ISP will upload it at full speed.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.30 10:57:00 - [131] I don't know if this has been said before, but: just make your own torrent. No need to wait for CCP to do it for you. Download the client, make a torrent, and seed it using these forums and/or IRC (I doubt CCP would have any major objections to you making it easier to download their stuffs for free). Same goes for the full client. Why wait for them to do it? Thus is the beauty of torrenting. ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:01:00 - [132] Originally by: Akita T Besides, somebody WILL be uploading it as a torrent anyway. I'd just hate to download it from thepiratebay and later find out it's spyware/keylogger/trojan/whatever "loaded". That's why I'm saying "official" torrent 4th post... _ [CNVTF] is recruiting \| Char creation guide \| Stack-nerfing explained
searess	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:11:00 - [133] Originally by: CCP Explorer Quote: But... I also assume you're talking "1.3 GB installer", and a much larger "installed" client, say 5, maybe even 8 GB? 3-8 GB is the ballpark. So for thoes people who play on a laptop with HD restrictions as in not much space were going to be royally shafted seeing as the client is going to end up at a 5 - 8 gig uncompressed size thus taking a hefty chunk of the 30 gig partition we have ! Hijackzorzzzz Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:14:00 - [134] Originally by: searess So for thoes people who play on a laptop with HD restrictions as in not much space were going to be royally shafted seeing as the client is going to end up at a 5 - 8 gig uncompressed size thus taking a hefty chunk of the 30 gig partition we have ! Delete 4 gigs of pron.
ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:20:00 - [135] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: searess So for thoes people who play on a laptop with HD restrictions as in not much space were going to be royally shafted seeing as the client is going to end up at a 5 - 8 gig uncompressed size thus taking a hefty chunk of the 30 gig partition we have ! Delete 4 gigs of pron. QFT :) ps. ... already starting ----- Quote: Dun kill me eris coming to fanfest by any chance? eris GULP
Kayleigh Lothian Minmatar KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:32:00 - [136] Don't anyone realize that this is another part in the "Need for speed" campain. To play Eve you will need speed :) ----------------------
Lucas Avignon	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:37:00 - [137] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Akita T When you say "various clever trickery", I assume you mean lossy and/or insanely slow-encryption lossless compression (especially for textures, I suppose), or maybe procedural texture generation We've replaced file formats, rearranged the data and done some clever packing, upgraded all our compression and install creation tools and applied all the lossless compression available. We have not resorted to lossy compression and there is no procedural generation. Quote: But... I also assume you're talking "1.3 GB installer", and a much larger "installed" client, say 5, maybe even 8 GB? 3-8 GB is the ballpark. That's a big file, might take more than 13mins to download if you guys have the bandwidth when there are like a thousand people downloading too, well I guess it shouldn't be too much trouble if it's coming directly of level3's backbone ^^ On a side note if this installer of 1.3gb unpacks to nearly 8gb I'll be shocked, frightened and amazed all at the same time. Here's to a problem free new client Oh and I support an official torrent for the community, I don't like them as they are too slow.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:45:00 - [138] Originally by: Akita T Besides, somebody WILL be uploading it as a torrent anyway. I'd just hate to download it from thepiratebay and later find out it's spyware/keylogger/trojan/whatever "loaded". That's why I'm saying "official" torrent The install and all executable files in the install will be signed with CCP's code signing key. The security features introduced in Revelation 2.2 will also be in the November expansion. Finally, if we publish MD5 and SHA-1 checksums for the install then it adds an extra layer of security if players choose to get the install from 3rd party sources. I would however recommend this site. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:54:00 - [139] Originally by: CCP Explorer The install and all executable files in the install will be signed with CCP's code signing key. The security features introduced in Revelation 2.2 will also be in the November expansion. Finally, if we publish MD5 and SHA-1 checksums for the install then it adds an extra layer of security if players choose to get the install from 3rd party sources. I would however recommend this site. Translation: we're already hosting this godawful huge file and paying for the associated bandwidth. You want a torrent, host it yourself, ya lazy bastiches.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:57:00 - [140] Originally by: Amarria Black Translation: we're already hosting this godawful huge file and paying for the associated bandwidth. You want a torrent, host it yourself, ya lazy bastiches. TBFH, sounds fair enough _ [CNVTF] is recruiting \| Char creation guide \| Stack-nerfing explained
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.30 11:58:00 - [141] I would'nt mind a torrent released before patch I have 3 clients to patch so would be useful Join The Fight With Promo Today
Neuromandis	Posted - 2007.09.30 12:10:00 - [142] Originally by: Akita T Also, how much space will it require on the C: drive to decompress ? ... Back then, I had to uninstall a lot of stuff and move the swap file to D just to be able to install EVE, because, like (probably many) other people, I keep my drive partitioned, with a relatively small first partition. You can in most cases move the windows TEMP folders to a larger partition. It takes some fiddling around in windows settings but nothing too fancy. IIRC they're just environment variables edited by control panel-> system, and I've had to do it a couple of times before... --- If someone else from my Corporation or Alliance agrees with me, he will say so. Assume nobody does :) --- WTB: Scorpion wing (left)
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.30 13:00:00 - [143] Originally by: CCP Explorer 3-8 GB is the ballpark. Could you then consider to make the auto-patching of the test server client a bit more "feasible"? Because when you miss to patch it one day you have to again copy the whole TQ client and with 8 GB this could be very slow on some people's machines.
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.09.30 13:03:00 - [144] About the test server, will we see the new graphic engine on there anytime soon ? =) This stuff really does need to be tested dont you think ?

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2007.09.30 16:17:00 - [145] Edited by: CCP Explorer on 30/09/2007 16:18:45 Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit Could you then consider to make the auto-patching of the test server client a bit more "feasible"? Because when you miss to patch it one day you have to again copy the whole TQ client and with 8 GB this could be very slow on some people's machines. That process is going to stay mostly the same. We're making changes to support the more flexible client patching mechanism, which includes server-locking the client builds, but the process of going from a TQ build to SiSi/Multi builds is going stay pretty much the same. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

Magnelien Caldari Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.09.30 16:40:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Explorer Originally by: Amy Tr'ader Imagine 200,000 people downloading the same file from 1 site - your transfer rate will be crap. All EVE client installs and patches are currently being delivered through Limelight Networks' CDN. They are not coming from a single server or location. well even so... Imagine... 200,000+ users starting downloading it then they immediately start seeding it to the rest of the downloaders making global transfer speed enormous. Exceeding this CDN network many times. Well at least take it into consideration
Sprzedawczyk	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:39:00 - [147] And most of those 200,000 will have connections like 8M/512, where said 512 uppload is barely sufficient for sending out all ACK request for stuff he is downloading. Large scale BT doesn't work unless there are dedicated uploading machines (100mb+) in the swarm and even then, it can be easily choked if enough leechers are involved. So basically BT is poor man CND, but it still require buying and setting up extra servers to work as tracker and upload sources. Moreover, many ISP already throttle or even block BT, so for vast majority of people BT os greatly inferior to direct http download. Also, pleeease get the download accelerator. I can suggest freeware Orbit Downloader, or paid Reget, both are awesome and will solve all your downloading problems. To CCP: You are doing the most awesome job with patching process and it's delivery. Keeping full client size at 638MB after 4 years of constant updates, fixes and flurry of large content expansions is most impressive job. The fact that you have alws kept full client as direct http download, is also something to be praised for! compared to competition that forces their customer to pay to ransom to fileplanet and wait for hours in "queues", or doesn't provide digital download at all and condemns their clients to running to shop and waiting for days to finish patching every time they want to reinstall. Patching system itself - you probably broke few laws of physics and mathemathics making it, because in comparsion with everyone else, it's just stellar! Rev1 to REv2.3 (that's 3 full content patches, check patchnotes to see how bloody much was added inbetween!) weights a mere 36MB. Compare to POTBS which forces you to download 1.3-4GB on every single minor patch, or SOE convulsed crc-based-check patching process which takes 10 minutes just to start actual patch process! In short: CCP's patching system is the most awesome thing and one of few fields where even biggest hater have to admit, that CCP CONSTANTLY DELIVERED
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:30:00 - [148] Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 30/09/2007 23:29:49 I have and use bittorrent frequently. But have I got a clue of how to set up a torrent? Have I F'". BUT I will be happy to be a peer when and if I get how it works... ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest* member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here.
Mitchman Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.01 02:21:00 - [149] Originally by: CCP Explorer We're currently not planning to provide a torrent stream but will rather rely on the CDN (and beef it up if necessary) when we deploy our November expansion. I beg you to reconsider. Having to download from a single source is highly inefficient and will be a giant single point of failure. Hopefully, others will do the job you should be doing and provide the torrent. New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
Kim Chee Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.01 02:40:00 - [150] Never really had a problem with huge downloads. I just use: wget -c -t 0 --read-timeout=5 --limit-rate=128k URL >/dev/null & It takes a while, but it will keep reconnecting and resuming until it gets the whole thing, even if my connection goes down. I'm sure you can find a windows equivalent (winget comes to mind).

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