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John Blackthrone	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:21:00 - [1] Just look in the Newsletter send out today. This are the new Prices: 1-month-plan Ç 14.95 Ç 14.95 3-month-plan Ç 11.95 Ç 35.85 6-month-plan Ç 10.95 Ç 65.70 Org-Post: Quote: Subscription Price changes Subscription revenues keep EVE going and make it possible to constantly improve and evolve the game. These revenues of course mainly depend on the number of active subscribers, but are also subject to other influences outside our control. Due to changes in currency rates and value added tax legislation in Europe we must adjust our subscription price plans. Our European players will be affected by the European Union E-commerce Directive 2002/38/EC, Regulation 792/2002. This stipulates that all EU residents must pay a Value Added Tax (VAT) on electronically supplied services including online games. We are thus obligated to add a VAT on all payment transactions for customers living within the EU. In view of this, the pricing structure for Europe will be: Cost/month* Total cost* 1-month-plan Ç 14.95 Ç 14.95 3-month-plan Ç 11.95 Ç 35.85 6-month-plan Ç 10.95 Ç 65.70 * VAT included For our players in the rest of the world, what affects us is that our revenues are denominated in US dollars, while our expenses are in Icelandic kronas. As you are probably aware of the US dollar has fallen in value quite dramatically in the last couple of years, and that trend doesn't seem to be changing. We can absorb usual currency fluctuations for limited periods but this has been going on for too long a time now. In view of this, the pricing structure outside Europe will be: Cost/month Total cost 1-month-plan $ 14.95 $ 14.95 3-month-plan $ 11.95 $ 35.85 6-month-plan $ 10.95 $ 65.70 As can be seen we have done our very best to mitigate the effects of this by keeping 3-month and 6-month plans at the same price as before and only increase the 1-month subscription rate by 2 US dollars. The effective date of this price change is the 25th of February 2004 .
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:25:00 - [2] No idea how much I'm paying currently. How much of an increase is that? Doesn't seem like it'd be much. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Carfax	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:31:00 - [3] Nice to see they posted a supposed email on site before sending it out. Or have they sent it out to a trial selection of subscribers tha doesn't include me? Anyways given that its cheaper to paper your walls with dollar bills than wallpaper at the moment its not a significant price hike in Europe ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:33:00 - [4] hmmm I didn't know this was an increase. Then again I don't really look at my bills much oh well, I don't really give a crap, $2 more is less than I pay to ride public transit to and from school each day.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:33:00 - [5] Lets be honest, that price hike is less than a pint of beer .... Darwin 4tw
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Judicator on 17/02/2004 17:40:55 USD 579,51 -5,28 (Amount is danish kroner for 100 dollar) EUR 745,14 +0,06 (Amount is danish kroner for 100 Euro) As we can see the dollar is crap versus the euro, so a 2 euro increase is quite a big compared to a 2 dollar increase. Thank you oh so much stupid european crap union. Btw, allows us to pay via Paypal or so, that means we pay via a US company and they can flip european laws the bird, we just use VISA. IIRC CCP uses a european payment company. Sack them CCP! -------------------------
pooti	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:39:00 - [7] bye bye second account.
TFH PAYN	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:39:00 - [8] Quote: No idea how much I'm paying currently. How much of an increase is that? Doesn't seem like it'd be much. thats a $2 USD increase a month ------------------------------------------------ ..every house hold should have a Minmatar slave..
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:40:00 - [9] 's only to dollar/euros no big deal (oi, pooti, wanna account transfer?) [Heterocephalus glaber]
Cpt Azrael	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:42:00 - [10] Eve is still a class game imo, the price rise should be mirrored with better service and content as cash flow into ccp accounts increases regardless off passthrough to tax also is eve reclaimable on our vat returns? (kidding btw) Plus side is that the poor children of those much loved pirate corps have to go 'cap in hand' to their parents for the extra pocket money so that they can continue nuking indys Hi ho..... hi ho.... its off to troll i go. diddly dum de dum de dum.....
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:43:00 - [11] the cash isn't going into CCP's pockets though - it's going to those bloody taxmen! LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:44:00 - [12] Quote: the cash isn't going into CCP's pockets though - it's going to those bloody taxmen! Yeah, let us comfor ourself with the knowdledge that when the revolution comes they will be the first against the wall!!! -------------------------
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:45:00 - [13] mmm wall [Heterocephalus glaber]
Crausaum	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Crausaum on 17/02/2004 18:00:45 Also when you think about you are not really losing out as the US dollar has DROPPED meaning that you are probably only paying the same ammount as when you started EVE (assuming you started a few months back), due to the exchange rate. But I guess that dosn't apply if you live in the US itself. Also in the case of europe I guess since your exchane rate hasn't changed you are kinda being jerked by the tax man. Hrm, tax on electronic services. Souns like they where trying to tax online ***. That would net a huge ammount of cash... Edit: I'm not gonna bypass the word filter so use your imagination. Just think "adult entertainment". -Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.*
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:57:00 - [15] Quote: Quote: the cash isn't going into CCP's pockets though - it's going to those bloody taxmen! Yeah, let us comfor ourself with the knowdledge that when the revolution comes they will be the first against the wall!!! That'd be the Revolution - Soon Ö courtesy of CCP I take it?
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 17:59:00 - [16] Wow, if the kronas is so strong to the Dollar, maybe you can take my extra $2 and buy some more hardware for cheap, right? CCP, Your 3rd grade economics excuses are feeble and weak. Just be a man and raise the prices straight up. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:05:00 - [17] Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 17/02/2004 18:07:40 Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 17/02/2004 18:06:04 it seems to me only the US and the country's in EU (European Union) that gets a increase? "We brake for nobody"
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:05:00 - [18] Edited by: Ishkur on 17/02/2004 18:06:09 Quote: Wow, if the kronas is so strong to the Dollar, maybe you can take my extra $2 and buy some more hardware for cheap, right? If they take your dollars, and are buying equipment in dollars, then it doesn't much matter what the exchange rate is... Does it? But if they are trying to you know, feed their families, then yeah, it matters when you give them $13 American which is really maybe $10 American two years ago. For more information about why the once-strong U.S. Dollar is now so weak, click here :)
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:13:00 - [19] Quote: it seems to me only the US and the country's in EU (European Union) that gets a increase? No, Quote: For our players in the rest of the world, what affects us is that our revenues are denominated in US dollars, while our expenses are in Icelandic kronas. For some reason their accountants are using "that dirty US dollar" for the rest of the world. As opposed to using the Euro. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Fuujin	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:16:00 - [20] Eh, the subscription increase doesn't bother me, only a tiny bit more to pay. _______________ The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:20:00 - [21] Edited by: Wraeththu on 17/02/2004 18:23:59 Quote: Eh, the subscription increase doesn't bother me, only a tiny bit more to pay. The price doesn't bother me. It's on par with the rest of the games. It's their silly excuses for doing it that do. It's like the kid that comes into class with "my dog ate my homework" Be a man, stand up, say "Our game has taken hold, due to inflation and our desire to expand on it, we're increasing our costs to reflect the industrial standard" if you have to give a reason. Not some weak reasoning based on the fluctuations of global currency. If they want to stabilize, stop banking in Dollars. Edit: To make matters worse, they don't raise the 3-month 6-month costs? Seems like a push for people to stop going monthly to me. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Hematic	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:25:00 - [22] Quote: Seems like a push for people to stop going monthly to me. Exactly.
Aldelphius	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:27:00 - [23] i would love to pay by 6months, it would be easier, but how do i change it from the 1 month plan??
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:30:00 - [24] Edited by: Wraeththu on 17/02/2004 18:31:40 Quote: i would love to pay by 6months, it would be easier, but how do i change it from the 1 month plan?? On the left there's a menu item for 'account management'. Click that. There should be 3 options. Choose the last one "Modify an existing account" It will then ask you to log in as your Eve account. Once succesfully logged in, there should be 3 tabbed panels. Choose 'Billing Info' Click the brown link at the bottom 'Edit Billing Info' Halfway down there's a combo box next to the label 'Subscription type:' Choose the subscription you want then click the 'Update billing info' button at the bottom -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Aldelphius	Posted - 2004.02.17 18:43:00 - [25] great, thanks for the help, i was looking in the subscription info. thanks.
Gryganne	Posted - 2004.02.17 19:05:00 - [26] 1 Euro = 1.28 Dollar currently If you are in Europe, you just won a 28% suscription price increase! Grats :(
Arud	Posted - 2004.02.17 19:25:00 - [27] on the issue of currency and how bad it is effecting certain aspects of our lives Because the US dollar is so low the US military base in Iceland has run out of money to pay the employes because they get payed in ISK.
Ayar Cachi	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:04:00 - [28] Yay! I like the sub price increase. I was worried a few months ago they weren't charging enough to ensure plenty of funds for more development of new stuff (and more/better hardware). Plus enough to make sure the devs get raises for reading all the crap here on the forums and then going postal ("danger pay" and/or "mental health stipend"). Price increase has raised me confidence in the game :) Can I pay more to have Zor back in now, not soon(tm)(sm)(c)?
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Wraeththu on 17/02/2004 20:22:53 Quote: 1 Euro = 1.28 Dollar currently If you are in Europe, you just won a 28% suscription price increase! It's worse for the countries like Canada, who get triply borked because CCP is playing exchange games with Euros and Dollars and using whichever one behoves them in each case. As for the Euro players paying more, U.S. citizens get their cash stripped out with income tax before we get around to VAT, so it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. I can only assume, given the fact that 3 and 6 month subscription prices weren't touched, they're trying to stabilize their quarterly numbers to do something. I hope it's something useful like getting loan options to expand, and not just due to accounting shinanigans, or trying to milk off a rapid influx of players who may or may not choose to leave quickly due to issues. Without knowing their subscription count, it's hard to tell. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:23:00 - [30] I can't see how they can increase the price after less than 1 year... Considering how this game is one dissappointment after another. I'll definitely not renew now... 7 days left for me, but who cares, I stopped playing a month ago... "Trust No One"
Hakera	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:27:00 - [31] There are only two things certain in life.... Death & Taxes one occurs regurly and the other doesnt work. /emote curses USA for trying to strengthen its exports by weakening the dollar Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:28:00 - [32] Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 17/02/2004 20:30:02 nope, increasing subscription rates cause of a weakened dollar doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the fact that when the dollar recovers(or the kronar drops) I don't expect to see them LOWER the cost to reflect that.
ZzeusS	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:31:00 - [33] Quote: I can't see how they can increase the price after less than 1 year... Considering how this game is one dissappointment after another. I'll definitely not renew now... 7 days left for me, but who cares, I stopped playing a month ago... Dude my character hasn't left a station in six months. I log in to start some training then forget about it for two days. There does seem to be some new interesting stuff coming out, though, so maybe I'll get serious about it again.
Ubix	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:33:00 - [34] The increase is nothing .. I broke wind this morning and more dollars flew out my behind than they plan to raise the charge by. UBIX
Harisdrop	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:36:00 - [35] The weak USA Dollar is good for the USA. We buy cheaper for our imports. Its ok to make me change to 6 month I would take a two year subscription. -------------------------- Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.17 20:43:00 - [36] Quote: nope, increasing subscription rates cause of a weakened dollar doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the fact that when the dollar recovers(or the kronar drops) I don't expect to see them LOWER the cost to reflect that. The dollar shouldn't 'recover'. It was already hyper-inflated, due to a series of wierd uses for it. As long as the Euro stays as a viable stabilization force for non-G7 countries, the dollar should stay down. It also depends a lot on what the Chinese do in the near-term future. The point is, the majority of their upkeep costs is bandwidth and hardware, which is already at a remote/non-icelandic location. If they feel the US dollar is on a downward spiral, the intelligent decission would have been to move their cluster to the US, or even better Canada (given the canadian dollars interdependence with the US dollar's price) which both have A1 internet access and cheap hosting facilities. Not to keep it in Europe, where the Kronas is staying somewhat stable over the past 120 days against the Euro. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Jolinar Niobe	Posted - 2004.02.17 21:36:00 - [37] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova
HRose	Posted - 2004.02.17 22:40:00 - [38] Edited by: HRose on 17/02/2004 22:43:12 Considering cancelling. I don't play much and I'm subscribed to both DAoC and FFXI. In June WoW too. Sorry, the price is too high for the value. For DAoC I pay 13$ which are less than 13 euros. I think about 11 euros. For FFXI a similar price. For Eve I'll play 15 euros. 4 euros more than DAoC. In DAoC there's a huge team of peoples working constantly, the game improves. There are a tons of upgrades and in two years the game has grown at a pace never seen in mmorpgs. In Eve development is painfully slow. I see the same bugs from beta. Additions land after many many months of development. I don't blame Eve's devs, but 15 euros for a weak game aren't on par with 11 euros I pay for DAoC quality service. Considering I spend in DAoC 10 times the time I spend in Eve. And I'm not discussing the games themselves, just devs' work and costs. HRose - I'm Italian so sorry for mistakes and bad english - - All that i say is always imho - Writing for www.mmorpg.it
Elizar	Posted - 2004.02.17 23:25:00 - [39] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova http://webpages.charter.net/atwtnick/sig.jpg
Elizar	Posted - 2004.02.17 23:30:00 - [40] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova http://webpages.charter.net/atwtnick/sig.jpg
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.17 23:43:00 - [41] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova "Trust No One"
Lola	Posted - 2004.02.17 23:57:00 - [42] Anything that makes whitedwarf leave has to be a good thing. ----------------------------------------- Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas.
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.02.18 00:13:00 - [43] Quote: Anything that makes whitedwarf leave has to be a good thing. My thoughts exactly
Wyrminaard	Posted - 2004.02.18 00:14:00 - [44] I¦ve seen some rather poorly thought out comments in this thread. To put things into perspective you have to consider that when the devs were working to make the game the US dollar went up to 110isk, you could get 110 icelandic kroner for one US dollar. At the moment the rate is 67isk for every USD. Now I think that the dollar was at around 100isk a year ago, that would mean that it¦s gone down 37% since the game went live. The price increase for the game was from 12,95$ to 14,95 which is a hike of about 15%. So as you can see they aren¦t even increasing the price of the game by as much as they have lost due to the currency. Someone mentioned moving the servers from London to the US but the cost of such a move and the downtime it would bring with it would increase the cost massivly, not to mention putting the servers into a differnt time zone then the dev team. The devs them selves as well as the support staff for the game are all paid in icelandic kroner, there is no way to go around that and these are the people that will improve the game and bring about new and interresting things. If they cant afford to pay them then the game will go out of business fast. The reason they charge USD in the first place is because it¦s the business standard for MMOGS and it makes it easy for people to compare the different games. I think CCP is very much in the right making these increases, sure they are a pain but I¦d rather the game lived then go the way of the dodo.
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.18 00:38:00 - [45] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova "Trust No One"
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.02.18 00:45:00 - [46] Nobody is forcing you to pay the increased price. Either pay or leave. I don't care either way LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2004.02.18 00:53:00 - [47] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.02.18 02:54:00 - [48] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova
Azamien	Posted - 2004.02.18 03:42:00 - [49] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova
Drunvalo	Posted - 2004.02.18 03:49:00 - [50] Keep away from RL politics on theese boards please. -Jehova
LLeBRing	Posted - 2004.02.18 04:10:00 - [51] obviously the last two comments are made by the carebears in EVE who fly a battleship with gunny lvl 2 and us there Apoc with alpha hull mods as a bestower If you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything at all. Your the people who want something for nothing. Bah, get a life. Clinton stole my ferrari, bush gave it back :) Nuttin but corn bread en chicken for this fella
Xel Naga	Posted - 2004.02.18 04:41:00 - [52] Quote: I can't see how they can increase the price after less than 1 year... Considering how this game is one dissappointment after another. I'll definitely not renew now... 7 days left for me, but who cares, I stopped playing a month ago... can i have your stuff?
Ishkur	Posted - 2004.02.18 04:45:00 - [53] LOL... Well political discussion aside, they could have been charging the equivalent of $12.95 in kronas ? (sorry, I'm an American and completely ignorant of other people's cultures and economic systems) and our banks could adjust it based on the currency rates every time we paid our subscriptions. Which would mean we'd be paying much more than 12.95 for the game. :) Anyway, carry on.
Xel Naga	Posted - 2004.02.18 04:46:00 - [54] Quote: "Anything that makes whitedwarf leave has to be a good thing" A suck ass DEV team and a$$holes like you, yeah, that will make me leave this game once and for all. Played this game for a long time, I was never truly satisfied, game never lived up to it's billing. I don't care what excuses they come up with for the price increase, based on CCP's performance, they do not deserve any more of my money. time time to read the message moron, they aren't getting anymore more money. its extra tax they are being charged for, so the addition to peoples monthly fee's does straight out of their hands.
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.02.18 04:54:00 - [55] Stupid Europeans and thier Euros Stupid American Economy WORK DAMN YOU WORK!!!!!! -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Sally	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:12:00 - [56] Quote: As for the Euro players paying more, U.S. citizens get their cash stripped out with income tax before we get around to VAT, so it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. This is the case in some European countries as well, e.g. Germany. So right now it would make sense for me to have a Credit Card account in U.S. Dollar currency, since the Euro is stronger. I see a lot of 2nd/3rd accounts on eBay soon. -- Stories: #1 --
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:25:00 - [57] Quote: Stupid Europeans and thier Euros Stupid American Economy WORK DAMN YOU WORK!!!!!! The economy would work if they would stop giving all of our jobs to people in India, who work for far less since their currency is much weaker than the US dollar. Outsourcing is ruining the economy in this country and increasing unemployment, the only people getting richer, are the corporations. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:29:00 - [58] Bleh...I didnt even mean for that statement to go around. blinks damn I almost gave my nationality away. Whats next who and what I am!! Noo Sir ree! POLARIUS!! Kill this thread!!! Real Life is seeping in!! Protect me!! -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:31:00 - [59] Quote: Bleh...I didnt even mean for that statement to go around. blinks damn I almost gave my nationality away. Whats next who and what I am!! Noo Sir ree! POLARIUS!! Kill this thread!!! Real Life is seeping in!! Protect me!! well it's the truth. =/ ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Aturayd	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:43:00 - [60] It doesnt matter what the numbers are really, its what its really worth in gold. 10Euros = $14 or whatever, but you can buy 14 candybars with either ammounts. ----------------------------------- about:blank
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.02.18 05:49:00 - [61] Quote: Quote: Bleh...I didnt even mean for that statement to go around. blinks damn I almost gave my nationality away. Whats next who and what I am!! Noo Sir ree! POLARIUS!! Kill this thread!!! Real Life is seeping in!! Protect me!! well it's the truth. =/ Stoppit!! Stoppit!! Bad Rat!! Shooosh! -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
swisher	Posted - 2004.02.18 06:45:00 - [62] Well if this is true then CCP is getting greedy..I'll end up close'n my account since I'm poor and cant afford another 2 dollars that is a extra 24 dollars a year ontop of the normal 12.95 a month. Well time to watch the server numbers go down..this most had been a market scam all along...you get the number up and jack the price up... If you guys say want to jack the price up then do it with the new players comin in the game but for the ones that have been here BETA TESTING IT OUT FOR THE LAST 8 MONTHS leave it the same rate we agreed on..because that is atleast what we need to get for putting up with all the problems that we have and still have in eve... Just my thoughts... -swish
swisher	Posted - 2004.02.18 06:54:00 - [63] ok this is crap...I was goin to save a few bucks by goin ahead and doing a 6month deal @ 12.95 but look what is says on the billin infor.. Note: Updating credit card information does not charge your card until the next due date, 29. February 2004. CCP..you are greedy bastards...blah fix the game make it worth payin more and I'll feel better.. -swish
Amaron Ghant	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:13:00 - [64] OK this seriously bites my bum where nothing else about the game has. European Union Price per month for the game is 14.95 euros At todays dollar exchange rate thats 19.3007 dollars http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi My bill for feb was 12.95 dollars.(don't know why dollars but there you go) It's an increase of over 50% for me (I live in Finland) European tax my hairy backside. This is profiteering on the back of increased numbers. There is no way thay can justify a price increase of over 50% due to a European directive. Consider me not particularly happy for the first time in 3 months of playing. Roids are a Menece I tell you, hunt then down I say, hunt them down!! Amaron Ghant the Mad Caldari Miner
Vlad Damian	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:18:00 - [65] Edited by: Vlad Damian on 18/02/2004 07:32:32 Edited by: Vlad Damian on 18/02/2004 07:26:17 I do find it odd that ccp is jacking up the subscription price right as they are gaining more and more customers. I was trying to justify paying for eve; asking myself if I should drop my account. I think CCP may have just decided for me. (And no, you can't have my stuff. My friends and corpmates get it ) I just find it hard to believe that CCP is in financial trouble... at the same time that they are telling us that the number of subscribers is increasing every day? I think people should be a little more questioning of this odd change in policy. I think the loyal fans who have backed CCP through the many bugs and fear of EVE tanking deserve a little more consideration than "uh, we tried out best... but economic stuff... um... yeah give us more money." I also kinda feel that we (the players) deserve a little more content... maybe shiva perhaps... before you (ccp) can truely justify raising subscription prices this much. P.S. Maybe we should start a charity. People with too much money can pay the subscription price difference for other poor eve addicts P.S.S. If CCP is in trouble, why don't they put up a paypal donate button like other artists do (webcomics and other web services)? Then people with a lot of money who really love the game can donate extra.
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:31:00 - [66] Edited by: Severus Trajan on 18/02/2004 07:33:06 Silly conspiracy theories aside, it would be very odd if CCP wasn't affected by the same influences that are currently making the international economy tick (or not). Yes, the international economy affects both YOU and CCP. If you are bothered by pricing changes due to a fluctuating world economy, when purchasing from an international company, please do us all a favour and take a moment to remove head from ass.
Vlad Damian	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:36:00 - [67] Edited by: Vlad Damian on 18/02/2004 07:45:49 Is there anyone with an conomic major playing eve? If anyone has a good grasp on the world economy, please, I implore you, explain to me what exactly has happened to the economy that would cause ccp to raise their prices so much. -Thanks -Cheers
Jehova	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:41:00 - [68] Please keep the discussion on topic. No politics, no flames, keep the thread nice. _________________________________________________________ [email protected]
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:46:00 - [69] Edited by: Severus Trajan on 18/02/2004 07:48:09 Quote: explain to me what exactly has happened to the economy that would cause ccp to raise their prices so much. See post on page 3 by Wyrminaard. (Alternatively, forego computer games in favour of watching news on the telly once in a while.)
Vlad Damian	Posted - 2004.02.18 07:56:00 - [70] Ahh. Good point Severus. This would be where i say "my bad." Although Wyrminaard's post makes sense... it doesn't take into account that fact that the number of subscribers has increased dramatically since the game went live less than a year ago (something that many ccp employees have commented on)... i think a thousand or five thousand additional accounts (something like 12,950 - 64,750 us per month) would more than cover any economic change in the us dollar and the isk. Then again i don't know anything about economics. (By the way... I hope people understand that i'm genuinely interested in figuring this out... i'm not whining or trying to be confrontational.) -Cheers
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.02.18 08:12:00 - [71] Wonder if CCP will decrease the price when the Euro/Dollar gets more expensive. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Silverlancer	Posted - 2004.02.18 08:24:00 - [72] The 3-month and 6-month prices stay the same guys! Who cares about 1-month?
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2004.02.18 08:41:00 - [73] Quote: The 3-month and 6-month prices stay the same guys! Who cares about 1-month? If you pay 6 months and get banned on month 2 then you have to pay the other 4 months, no mather if you can play em or not. Trust me, it happens and i had it happen to me. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Skuregyon	Posted - 2004.02.18 09:07:00 - [74] 10.95 Euro = 14.05761 USA - Dollar 10.95 USA - Dollar (USD) = 8.52937 Euro (EUR) NO WAY !!!!! THIS is a robbery...... Im European, and not have other word to hate this method....or ALL payments in Çuro's or ALL payments Dollar$...CCP think on this! REMEMBER AESCorporation, the First All Italian Corp. in EVE...fan since 2000 ! Skuregyon: Property of Shinra !
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.18 09:37:00 - [75] 14.95 Euros = ú10.08 at todays currency exchange rates.
Kunming	Posted - 2004.02.18 09:50:00 - [76] Tax is actually supposed to return as service... You pay lots of tax when you have a car, cause building roads arent cheap, BUT what service does EU provide for E-TAX? Do they reduce lag, bring in more players, add more content? NO!! This is just another stupid idea EU! Intercepting since BETA
Busko Moonwalker	Posted - 2004.02.18 10:04:00 - [77] Lucky me :P i still pay in dollars even tho i live in euro :P 2 dollars isent much and i use the 3month subscription that dident change. So there is no big change for me the peeps that lost the most is thos that pay in euro.
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.18 10:09:00 - [78] Edited by: LukAsh on 18/02/2004 10:11:22 For me it's not just mere $2 a month - a candybar price... For me it's change from $13/month to 15EU/month. It's 50% raise. My internet connection cost will be more or less equal to bill from EVE. St I could buy myself normal game w/o bugs, frequent crashes (I lost a cruiser yeasterday becouse of a crash and beeing unable to connect soon enough) and lazy devs on top of it each month ! Fk this I like EVE a lot but it's not worth 15EU a month - it's highest bill I've ever seen on a mmorpg. ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Kovak	Posted - 2004.02.18 10:34:00 - [79] To the europeans it ain't ccp's fault blame the EU for taxing online subscriptions and hence raising prices. Bear in mind you've got to add in all the extra admin now that they actually have to deduct and pay the tax. For the americans blame your government for driving the price of the dollar down by 30%. As a side not you know how the american stock market has been rocketing away over the last year.... I wonder how big those gains are when you consider that the dollar is worth 30% ish less than it did a year ago....
Attila	Posted - 2004.02.18 10:44:00 - [80] DREAMWORKS Wonder if CCP will decrease the price when the Euro/Dollar gets more expensive. Very good question! This is the first time I have seen a MMORPG raise it's prices so much due to world money market fluctuations. As Dream said: will CCP LOWER the monthly subscription when the US dollar makes gains (as it will). I highly doubt it. I know that in the last 4 months, the rate has gone from approx 1.72$/pound to it's current 1.95$/pound(approx). Last question: has any other MMORPG (Everquest, AO, etc) raised it's prices for these reasons? I enjoy EVE, and as long as CCP makes continual improvements, I will pay-to-play. I wonder if possible sale of Simon & Schuster Games had anything to do with this..... "Keep the Smak low, and the ROF high" CELES KILL BOARD: http://www.celeskills.com/index.php?mode=kill
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.18 10:56:00 - [81] Quote: To the europeans it ain't ccp's fault blame the EU for taxing online subscriptions and hence raising prices. Bear in mind you've got to add in all the extra admin now that they actually have to deduct and pay the tax. For the americans blame your government for driving the price of the dollar down by 30%. As a side not you know how the american stock market has been rocketing away over the last year.... I wonder how big those gains are when you consider that the dollar is worth 30% ish less than it did a year ago.... Oh that's is just big bullsh... So why they don't rise everything equally - just the 1 month subscription?? Why they have 2 currencies not 1? My best guess is that they want more people on long-term subscription becouse they have too many 1 or 2 month players who quit for various reasons. After more than 8 months having only 7k players isn't very impressive... [conspiracy theory mode on] Another thing - what if Shiva wont be introduced soonÖ ?? Or what if there will be nothing after it? [conspiracy theory mode off] ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Naran Darkmood	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:12:00 - [82] The reason, other MMORPG haen`t increases there price is, that most of them have there devteam and there servers in the same country, namely the US. So there is no problem for them if the exchange rate drops. Most of the costs staz fixed. Here is the problem, that CCP`s expenses are in Icelanding Krona (for the staff) and - most likely - British Pound for the servers/bandwidth/connection, but thez were charging USD for the subsciption fee. If thez haven`t done some hedging on their income, they are pretty stuffed with the drop of the USD as a lot of other companies are (it`s nearly a wonder thez aren`t broke). Unfortunately, for me leaving in the EU, it`s a little too much an increase, as I`ve nearlz stopped plazing ATM. So mostlikely, I won`t subscribe again. but who knows... ----------------------------------------------- The following bonuses may be awarded to you: 27 units of Basic Expanded Cargohold at if you complete the mission
Vanishing Lex	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:20:00 - [83] Edited by: Vanishing Lex on 18/02/2004 11:42:32 Don't tell me to blame the EU for VAT increases. This price increase by CCP is FAR in excess of what they are supposed to be charging to account for that EU regulation. A regulation that I might add has been in force since July 1st last year. If you live in Europe This price increase is GREATLY UNFAIR. This is a price increase in the 1 month account from 13 dollars to over 19. thats about 50% increase. VAT in the UK where i live is 17.5% I checked the EU Regulations. the company is Obliged to charge VAT at the rate of which the customer's country does. the pay 3 monthly and 6 monthly account prices under Euros are 28% HIGHER than the Dollar equivalents In real terms. The highest VAT rate in the EU is 25% (denmark) The lowest is 7.5% (switzerland) That means people are payign between 3% and 20.5% for their accounts in Europe under the new pricing than the VAT excuse allows for depending where you live. in the UK where the BIGGEST number of players in the Eve community comes from it is a 10.5% increase in price which is unexplained for. Then if you pay monthly in europe you also get hit with an EXTRA 20% increase on what you were paying before these increases on top of the extra above VAT rates. Why this 20% increase in account prices for 1 month accounts? are europeans supposed to subsidise CCP for the falling rate of the dollar? Is that fair??? In conclusion - if you live in europe CCP are being unfair to you and it's a country lottery as to how unfair. If you live in the UK and pay monthly then you just got a 32%ish cost increase above the VAT rate they have given as the reason for the price rises. CCP are being unfair and manipulative to europeans and hoping they wont notice in swappign over from dollars to Euros. COMPLAIN! - if enough of the community threaten to close their accounts, then CCP will be forced to be more fair. --------------------------------- Cogito ergo sum. I think therefore I am. Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum. I think I think, therefore I think I am.
Altaka Hiltora	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:25:00 - [84] Ooooo in that case, I'm looking forward to the US$ becoming stronger again, I'm sure we can all expect a price reduction "You have to sometimes make sacrifices for the greater good and not be manipulated by those who have no understanding - brother"
Fastoso	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:29:00 - [85] I think i'll leave soon that game and community... that game begin to be too much expensive... Sorry
Attila	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:33:00 - [86] "Council Directive 2002/38/EC, in force from 1st July 2003, changes the EU rules for charging Value Added Tax (VAT) on the supply over electronic networks (i.e. digital delivery) of software and computer services generally, plus information and cultural, artistic, sporting, scientific, educational, entertainment or similar services. From now on, these services will be taxed in the country where the customer resides rather than where the supplier is located. For the purpose of the Directive, the services concerned are defined as "electronic services" or "electronically supplied services". The changes in their tax treatment will eliminate a long-standing competitive distortion by ensuring that both non-EU suppliers and EU suppliers are subject to the same VAT rules when they are providing electronic services to EU customers. From 1st July 2003, EU suppliers will no longer be obliged to charge European VAT when selling on markets outside the EU." Sorry that was so long, but I have a question: is the UK officially in the EU, because according to the above statement from http://europa.eu.int/comm/taxation_customs/taxation/ecommerce/vat_en_faq.htm#1changes non-EU customers are exempt from the VAT. Could be some lawsuits coming from this one CCP......As someone said the VAT charged should be the same as the customers home/residence, not some "blanket" VAT made up by CCP. "Keep the Smak low, and the ROF high" CELES KILL BOARD: http://www.celeskills.com/index.php?mode=kill
Vanishing Lex	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:37:00 - [87] The UK is a full founding member of the EU. i think also you have misinterpreted the law. It effectively means that Icelandic and other non-EU companies have to charge VAT to their customers. This charge should be at the VAT rate of the customers country. as you can see in my above post - this is not what they are doing. BURN THEM. --------------------------------- Cogito ergo sum. I think therefore I am. Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum. I think I think, therefore I think I am.
Attila	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:44:00 - [88] Gotcha VL...thanks for the enlightenment. My next question is...if this has been in effect since July'03, has CCP NOT been charging the EU enforced VAT? Or, like most items purchased, was the VAT already included in the subscription fee, just not segregated on our bank/credit card statements? Like others have said..this raise in fee's for EU players reeks of CCP wanting more 3 and 6 month subscriptions to pad the coffers. I will pay it, for now. We'll see how many others do, in time.... "Keep the Smak low, and the ROF high" CELES KILL BOARD: http://www.celeskills.com/index.php?mode=kill
Thyro	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:44:00 - [89] Quote: the cash isn't going into CCP's pockets though - it's going to those bloody taxmen! bla bla bla bla and more bla ... CCP move ur HQ to off-shore and u don't have to increase the game prices... TAX isn't a escuse earn more money... The game price has increased more than 10% even more than 20% for EU players... and don't blame the f~u~c~k~i~n~g EU laws ... get off-shore or reduce the prices that you ask to acomodate that TAX... OR to justify that increase then PROVIDE A COMPLETE GAME with all features anonced year ago in a BOX and manual (AND NOT AVAILABLE YET... neither will be next year) beside a provide better service... with less shutdowns, CTD and show connectivity! TAX insn't a excuse to increse the price of an already expensive game!
Haratu	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:48:00 - [90] I renewed my account only 24hrs before the announcement. I kinda saw this coming though, the falling $US was actually one of the reasons I started playing. I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century.
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:52:00 - [91] Edited by: SwitchBl4d3 on 18/02/2004 11:55:50 Interesting. Especially about VAT cool i pay using a US bank accoutn rather than UK will that work ? "Teh lord of Nonni"
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.18 11:54:00 - [92] These are the rates of VAT for European countries: Quote: Belgium 21% Denmark 25% Germany 16% Greece 18% Spain 16% France 19.6% Ireland 21% Italy 20% Luxembourg 15% Netherlands 19% Austria 20% Portugal 19% Finland 22% Sweden 25% United Kingdom 17.5% What I want to know is why there are now 2 currencies that are being charged? Using the 6 month plan as an example: Ç10.95 = $14.05 $10.95 = Ç8.53 If we assume the HIGHEST rate of VAT, 25%, the price to us Euros would be $10.66 Not freaking $14.05. You're economics and maths are wrong, CCP, either let us all pay in Dollars and add the VAT to us euro's, or in 3 months I'm cancelling 3 accounts.
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.18 12:26:00 - [93] Quote: These are the rates of VAT for European countries: Quote: Belgium 21% Denmark 25% Germany 16% Greece 18% Spain 16% France 19.6% Ireland 21% Italy 20% Luxembourg 15% Netherlands 19% Austria 20% Portugal 19% Finland 22% Sweden 25% United Kingdom 17.5% What I want to know is why there are now 2 currencies that are being charged? Using the 6 month plan as an example: €10.95 = $14.05 $10.95 = €8.53 If we assume the HIGHEST rate of VAT, 25%, the price to us Euros would be $10.66 Not freaking $14.05. You're economics and maths are wrong, CCP, either let us all pay in Dollars and add the VAT to us euro's, or in 3 months I'm cancelling 3 accounts. Right now I am getting billed in USD and my bank statement even goes to such great lenght as telling me how many DKR that was. If my next bill from CCP inclues a 50% increase as some suggest I think I'll go play Anarchy Online or just wait for WoW. -------------------------
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.18 13:40:00 - [94] Quote: Quote: These are the rates of VAT for European countries: Right now I am getting billed in USD and my bank statement even goes to such great lenght as telling me how many DKR that was. If my next bill from CCP inclues a 50% increase as some suggest I think I'll go play Anarchy Online or just wait for WoW. Same here, if it continues in Dollars with added VAT I'm happy, don't try and convert me to Euros, especially not at those prices - we opted out of the Euro for a reason :D
Zecht Wisto	Posted - 2004.02.18 13:52:00 - [95] pay by 3 month subscriptions then... you save almost 10 bucks....
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.18 13:55:00 - [96] We sure did opt out of the euro. This new scheme of CCP's is sweet for US citizens while Europeans get shafted. If they got any sense up there I suggest they charge everyone in USD. Right now it is convinient for them to charge europeans in Euro because it will net them more profit. 14.95 USD for 1 Month for EVERYONE. Then I'll be happy as the terms are even. -------------------------
Ariisha	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:00:00 - [97] The most sensible way for CCP to do it would be to charge everyone in Euro. Heck, this way they would have a reliable income, and not that inflationary $ crap.
Black Shadow	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:00:00 - [98] i close the account i don't want to continue at these conditions. today (18-2-04) Ç and $ 14.05761 USD = 10.95 EUR 10.95 USA = 8.52937 EUR 10,95Ç = 14,05761$ = +28,38%
John Zeppe	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:02:00 - [99] So, is it confirmed that 3- and 6-month subscription prices will stay the same? In that case, I'll switch to 3 months and stay. If I need to pay Ç14.95 for 2 accounts I'm outta here. Can't afford that, considering how huge the difference is from $12.95
Coupe Soleil	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:03:00 - [100] From the EULA: 4. SUBSCRIPTION FEES AND PAYMENT TERMS After the Trial Period, you are required to pay a subscription fee to maintain your Account, access the System and play EVEÖ. You are informed of the subscription fee and payment terms during the registration process. The current subscription fee and payment terms may be viewed at http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/pricing.asp, and are incorporated in the EULA by reference. CCP may amend the subscription fee and payment terms at any time. All subscription fees are in U.S. Dollars and are non-refundable unless expressly stated otherwise in the EULA. When you establish your Account, you authorize CCP to automatically charge your credit card the subscription fees in accordance with the payment terms (as may be amended by CCP from time to time), plus any applicable taxes that CCP is required to collect. If CCP is unable to process your credit card at any time, your Account may be immediately suspended or terminated at CCP's discretion. You are responsible for reviewing CCP's website for changes in the subscription fee or payment terms. If a change is unacceptable to you, you may, as your sole and exclusive remedy, terminate the EULA and close your Account as described in the termination section below. You are responsible for paying all applicable taxes (including those CCP is not required to collect) and for all hardware, software, Internet service and other costs you incur to access the System. ------ According to the EULA all subscription fees are in US dollars. Fine. Then why change it to euros for Europeans then?? Yes, CCP has the right to change it whenever they see fit, but this way they only make the game more expensive for European players! And to change it to euros for the tax only doesn't make sense either. Let us pay tax in dollars then. Could somebody from CCP please explain why we have to pay in Euros suddenly?
shakaZ XIV	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:07:00 - [101] hmm looks like i was just in time with my sub that is, if they process it before the 25th...gogogo
Postman	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:08:00 - [102] Quote: According to the EULA all subscription fees are in US dollars. Fine. Then why change it to euros for Europeans then?? Yes, CCP has the right to change it whenever they see fit, but this way they only make the game more expensive for European players! And to change it to euros for the tax only doesn't make sense either. Let us pay tax in dollars then. Could somebody from CCP please explain why we have to pay in Euros suddenly? I would like to know the same thing. 35 euro or 35 dollar is a VERY big difference. I don't think i will continue to play, or i will change my country to USA or go PayByCash. Either way, I'm frauding, but i don't want to pay 20 dollar more just because i life in Europe and not the USA. The tax rate is fine, but this euro/dollar bs is going to make alot of people stop playing. Have fun with a virtually complete USA game ----------------------- EVE-DB Staff member
Shevar	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:14:00 - [103] Crap crap crap We are talking about a 27% increase in price for european customers I mean wtf? Isnt that a bit absurd? -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:19:00 - [104] For uk people, it works out at roughly ú10. Not that much really.
John Zeppe	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:23:00 - [105] Now: $12.952 = 182 SEK Later: Ç14.952 = 271 SEK Difference $12.30 In other words, 2 accounts for the price of 3...
Postman	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:24:00 - [106] I wouldn't mind a increase, but if they increase Europe more then the USA by a whopping 27% ON TOP of the tax increase, then i'm out of here. I think if this is reality and not some typing or calculation error on the side of CCP, then EVE might lose alot of the European players (which form almost half of the game community). Daytime will be empty then (GMT daytime, GMT night is USA daytime). ----------------------- EVE-DB Staff member
Ariisha	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:25:00 - [107] Its fairly easy: both parts of CCP (Iceland and UK) are directly linked to the EURO region. So they suffer heavily from the crashing dollar. But: it realy is unfair to charge europeans in EURO while charging everyone else in $. As said above: the economical most sensible way for CCP would be to charge everyone in EURO, and charging EUropeans an additional VAT. According to the directive this HAS to be the VAT of the customer, so 16% for germans, 17,5% for UK, 25% for danes. What would be the result of that? Well, the price would slowly increase for US-americans. It would stay stable for EUropeans, and it would slightly fluctuate for all others. The overall income of CCP would stay stable. What happens if they leave it as planned? The price would stay stable for US-americans and EUropeans. It would slowly decrease for all others. The overall income of CCP would decrease.
Busko Moonwalker	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:28:00 - [108] Well i dont know why they post the Euro price. What euro players should check is what the 14.95 dollars is in euro coz thats what they going to pay. Lucky for me and bunch of other players is that Sweden havent adopted the euro yet :D Still every time i pay i get from my back CCP 12.95 = 98SEK :P or whatever it was last :D.
Shevar	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:37:00 - [109] Quote: What euro players should check is what the 14.95 dollars is in euro coz thats what they going to pay. Lucky for me and bunch of other players is that Sweden havent adopted the euro yet :D Wrong, you're euro you are gonna pay in euros now . -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Coupe Soleil	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:41:00 - [110] Quote: Well i dont know why they post the Euro price. What euro players should check is what the 14.95 dollars is in euro coz thats what they going to pay. Lucky for me and bunch of other players is that Sweden havent adopted the euro yet :D Still every time i pay i get from my back CCP 12.95 = 98SEK :P or whatever it was last :D. You're wrong here:As it is said in the newsletter the European players will be charged in Euros. There's no point in posting euro-prices if they're calculated from the dollar-price because that changes regularly.
Aurelius Zarander	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:42:00 - [111] Edited by: Aurelius Zarander on 18/02/2004 14:44:13 The difference won't be as big as some people believe it is.. Taking the 1 month price: Ç14,95 and $14,95 When they calculate the 20% VAT on the dollar price it will cost you $17,94 and calculated on the euro it will be $19,43 with the current dollar.. Calculated back this is around Ç1,4 a month higher than when you pay in dollars Not that much of a difference but the way it's being introduced is a bit weird and causes alot of confusion among the players.. Edit: Ofcourse it's still a 27% raise because of the profanity EU taxes but you can't blaim CCP for that
Nemesis I	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:46:00 - [112] Edited by: Nemesis I on 18/02/2004 15:21:35 I just did these calcs sorry if they on already! Oh and alot of people are forgetting to add in the $2 increase which if we all stayed at US prices would of been added with the justification CCP gave! UK Old price $12.95 = ú6.79 The $2 increase = ú1.05 VAT (UK Based so known 17.5%) = ú1.37 Justified Cost = ú9.21 New price 14.95 EUROS = ú10.08 Excess ú.87 UK players are being charged $ 1.66 over US players Euro Countries Old price 12.95 Dollars = E 10.08 Factor in the $2 increase = E 1.56 EU Tax at worst case 25% = E 2.91 Justified Cost = E14.55 New price = E14.95 Excess = E 0.40 Though remember this is worse case scenario some could be paying E1.50 more than needed
Aurelius Zarander	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:50:00 - [113] As you can see in the list posted on page 5: Quote: Belgium 21% Denmark 25% Germany 16% Greece 18% Spain 16% France 19.6% Ireland 21% Italy 20% Luxembourg 15% Netherlands 19% Austria 20% Portugal 19% Finland 22% Sweden 25% United Kingdom 17.5% The taxes range from 15% to 25% so it looks like they took the average tax and used that for all countries..
Ariisha	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:52:00 - [114] Its 10% more then the americans pay. AND that is enough to make me angry. I aint gonna pay more for the same product without a good reason. VAT IS a good reason, and I don't have a problem paying 65,70$* 1,16 = 76,21$ for 6 month. Neither do I have a problem if the price goes to 51 EURO plus VAT. But it has to be the same price for everyone (+VAT).
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:52:00 - [115] Edited by: Stront3h on 18/02/2004 15:24:34 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from ZDnet UK VAT changes On 1 July, a new EU directive came into effect requiring all Internet companies to account for VAT on "digital sales". The law adds a 15 percent to 25 percent levy on select Internet transactions such as software and music downloads, monthly subscriptions to an Internet service provider and on any product purchased through an online auction anywhere in the 15-member bloc of nations. The VAT tax is nothing new for some Net companies. European dot-coms have been charging customers VAT since their inception. Their overseas rivals, though, have been exempt, making foreign companies an obvious choice for the bargain-hunting consumer. Freeserve has lobbied furiously for the past two years to get the loophole closed, saying its chief rival, AOL UK, saved $249.7m (ú150m) in tax payments over the years. Affected companies are handling the new tax load in a variety of ways. AOL Europe, for instance, relocated its continental headquarters to tiny Luxembourg, one of the EU's cheaper tax regimes. If your company is already based in the EU then you should already be paying VAT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I say this because of the "anywhere in the 15-member bloc of nations" bit. Btw Iceland is not a member of the EU it's a member of the EEA not sure what the difference is, but looking at the above could someone verify if we should be paying VAT?
Aurelius Zarander	Posted - 2004.02.18 14:59:00 - [116] Edited by: Aurelius Zarander on 18/02/2004 15:00:57 nm, misread..
Auman	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:22:00 - [117] Can EU players opt to pay in dollars? As far as I'm aware there is no EU law that states CCP has to charge in euros, only that EU customers must have the option to purchase in euros (I could be getting that confused with something else, or it might not apply in this instance so don't quote me ). Being from the UK I would prefer to pay in dollars given the current exchange rates
Absolute0	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:28:00 - [118] Quote: Btw Iceland is not a member of the EU it's a member of the EEA not sure what the difference is, but looking at the above could someone verify if we should be paying VAT? If your in a country in the EU you pay VAT on any subscription it doesn't matter where they are it's where you are. I've got no problem with a small increase in the monthly price but I do think everyone should pay a basic fee and the VAT of the country they are in. This is from one of the EU tax website "under the new rules, the location that is used in determining taxation will shift from the place the service provider or operator is established to the place where the recipient of the servic-es is located." Might be wrong here but doesn't that mean they can't charge one VAT rate for all players in the EU but must charge for the county they are playing from?
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:36:00 - [119] Quote: For uk people, it works out at roughly ú10. Not that much really. But if it was based on USD it would only be a fiver ;)
Ariisha	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:38:00 - [120] You are 100% right.
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:42:00 - [121] Edited by: Stront3h on 18/02/2004 15:50:01 god damned bugged board --------------------------------------------- If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field That is for ever England.
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.18 15:44:00 - [122] That doesn't make sense, base upon what AOL are doing then.... AOL move to Lux to take advantage of "lower" taxes as Lux is a member of the EU. By this move it would suggest that it's where the company is based not where the client is based and I'm in no doubt that AOL/Timewarner has soome of the best taxation lawyers that money can buy. Following on from this it leads you to believe that it's the country of origin that sets the tax and as Iceland isn't one of the 15 members of the EU should we be subject to VAT? btw I've no problem with the increase, I'd just like to know that I've told the truth
Phyo	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:02:00 - [123] Currently, the Member States of the EU are as follows: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom. VAT is a tax that is imposed on the supplier of goods and services. The rate of VAT varies across the EU, although it is generally between 15 and 25% The most administratively complex area of the new rules is that the rate of VAT that non-EU sellers will have to charge will vary depending upon the EU Member State in which a given EU consumer is resident. For example, a U.S. supplier of music downloads would have to charge VAT at a rate of 19.6% on sales to French consumers, 17.5% on sales to UK consumers, and 25% on sales to Swedish consumers. If you are a non-EU supplier providing electronically supplied services (and for the purposes of VAT, all goods delivered electronically are treated as supplies of services) to consumers in the EU, you are potentially required to register and account for VAT in every Member State where your consumers are resident. However, a simplified special scheme (the Special Scheme) permits you to register electronically in a Member State of your choice and account for VAT on a single electronic VAT return (although the amount of VAT to be paid will still vary according to the place of residence of the consumers). The relevant revenue authority in the Member State in which you have registered will then distribute the VAT to the Member States in which your consumers are resident. [color=green]above taken from:[/color] http://www.haledorr.com/publications/pub_detail.aspx?ID=2213&Type=5543 So CCP doesn't like to bill each customer with a correct VAT according to the customers location, and bills all EU customers the same. Which VAT rate are we talking about here ? If its the Swedish one, UK customers get screwed by alot, and CCP earns most.
Adrin	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:09:00 - [124] Edited by: Adrin on 18/02/2004 16:16:35 Asw i posted in this closed thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=60474 There is one big problem, many of you noticed. There are 2 main reasons named: VAT and USD-sickness. If i take a look: Why in the hell didn't they change ALL USD charges ? they only changed one. So the argument with the USD is bull**** ! Ok now to the VAT. Like i understood they have to charge everyone single with his VAT. Why should a switzerland citizien pay the same like a denmark citizen ? Their VAT is much more. Ok and another thing is: i think abozt half of the players of eve are europeans. WHY should only we europeans get that higher fees ??? from 65,70 USD -> 65,70 EUR it is a change of 27% more while all outside the EU don't pay anything more. Sorry but i feel horrible atm. If i had to pay the same like US Customers (or anyone else outside) + VAT it would be ok. But what CCP did is let euros pay for the whole community. That sucks! CCP correct this or give us a public information on our questions !
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:10:00 - [125] Current price: 12.95 USD = 75.24 DKR New price: 14.95 EURO = 111.4 DKR 14.95 USD = 86.87 DKR I have obviously used todays exchange rates. I'd like an explanation as to why I am going to pay 24,53 DKR more than compared to an American or Non-European? I'll go further. If the new price converted from EURO is 111,4 and they add a 25% VAT, danish VAT btw, the grand total is 139,25. If I use USD the grand total is 108,5857. A surplus price for me totalling 30,6643 DKR: Old price, in USD + VAT 25% is 94,05 DKR. Overall, Europeans are getting the ****ty end of this deal and I'll personally have no part in it. I don't care about weak dollr strong dollar and crappy crappy ISK. Change ev eryone to EURO then or keep everyone in USD and up the price to 15.95 or. The main thing is, we all pay in tbe same currency and the same god damn amount! -------------------------
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:29:00 - [126] Quote: So CCP doesn't like to bill each customer with a correct VAT according to the customers location, and bills all EU customers the same. Which VAT rate are we talking about here ? If its the Swedish one, UK customers get screwed by alot, and CCP earns most. Ah that would make sense then, so they've had to register in an EU country in order to subject customers to one level of VAT. Bet it wasn't Luxembourg
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:36:00 - [127] I'm glad I already cancelled my accounts and don't actually have to pay this BS increase. This is a very bad move by CCP, it looks to be just as fukked up and unbalanced as everything else they do... I think the players who stick around will get to watch the servers numbers start to go backwards... We should have known a game based in Iceland was destined to fail. Oh well, live and learn... They raped me for $200 USD, good job CCP! "Trust No One"
Machiavelli7	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:37:00 - [128] Yeah, as others have already mentioned non-EU companies selling goods & services into the EU still have to pay VAT - the directive cleared up this previously grey area. So i can't complain if VAT was added onto the subscription fee on top, but it seems there's an extra 12% has been added on too (as far as UK players are concerned). This quite frankly sucks - but hey, it still represents good value for money compared to other things i spend my moolah on. _________________________________
Stront3h	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:39:00 - [129] Edited by: Stront3h on 18/02/2004 16:40:49 You still here WD..... I can see their justification in the increases from both sides of the pond.
Zarthan	Posted - 2004.02.18 16:53:00 - [130] Quote: Quote: Seems like a push for people to stop going monthly to me. Exactly. Can you say scam Yeah i like the game to but the reasoning behind this seems like a load. With the price increase we better get a lot better service to back up the price increase. As crapy of a game as SWG or others may be, they rolled out new content and answered players questions 10x quicker then ccp and their soon(tm) bs. _______________________________________________________ Get custom sigs and graphics done here Unforgivn Website
Dirtball	Posted - 2004.02.18 17:15:00 - [131] Don't forget in an interview a dev said that EVE is already making a profit.
Jehyl Kaerloon	Posted - 2004.02.18 17:39:00 - [132] I'm not sure but i think there is a special VAT rate for cultural products (at least in France)... could we consider Eve as cultural? ;) (that lower VAT to 6%)
Teelmaster	Posted - 2004.02.18 18:16:00 - [133] Quote: I'm glad I already cancelled my accounts and don't actually have to pay this BS increase. I'm sure people will miss you.......not.at....all. Can i have your stuff nublar?
Monty Burns	Posted - 2004.02.18 18:24:00 - [134] Don't you think there are a lot of people worked up over the price of a beer? How long has it taken you to read this thread? 10 mins, 20 mins.... what about all those calculations people have worked out? another 10mins? Surley your time is worth more than that pint of beer? So you get charged a little more for the Euro price, no biggy really is it? At the end of the day, you either accept this and play the game or you dont and quit :-) Not ment to sound harsh :-) Just little reality check on whats important in life :-) Now if beer went up ú2 in one go then I WOULD be miffed ;-) Be lucky all! Darwin 4tw
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.18 18:42:00 - [135] Quote: Don't you think there are a lot of people worked up over the price of a beer? The thing is that if it was one beer, heck I would mind at all. But for me 15EU - $13 = 12 good beers !!! Quote: Now if beer went up ú2 in one go then I WOULD be miffed ;-) Now if you were me, wouldn't you be miffed?? ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Monty Burns	Posted - 2004.02.18 18:46:00 - [136] But it hasn't gone up 15 euro has it? If it has gone up 15 euro then fair play ... moan, but if its NEW price is 15 from say 13 .... then ??? come on ... LOTS more important in life ;-) Darwin 4tw
Atraeus	Posted - 2004.02.18 18:51:00 - [137] Who cares bout Vat or whatever,good old fashioned banging is what ur getting,hhahahah
LiverpoolFC	Posted - 2004.02.18 19:10:00 - [138] This game has saved me a few Euro/USD/Pound/Isk cos I have not bought as many games or bought as much food for that matter. Spending more on Coffee and Smokes. Guess it will all balance out. Just hope its the UK that gets the VAT and not the French or Germans.
voodoo	Posted - 2004.02.18 19:28:00 - [139] More money more money more money ok great better faster servers finally we can have fleet battles yeee haa WHAT?????? wtf do you mean the fleet battle lag will still be the same. hmmm well if i have to pay more fine just improve the game servers. OH i see you have to increase the price on US paying customers so that the people who are playing for free can keep on playing and CCP can keep breaking online records. But may I ask whats the point of having 7000 plus players online if 1) your servers cant handle it 2) only 5000 are actually paying 3)and you have to raise the price on us old timers so the new guys can play for free OH did I tell you I quit smoking cig's today and all i needed was a reason to *** blah blah blah whats the use in fighting it the prices are going up lol BTW in the elua or whatever it states ccp can do what ever they want with the price at any given time and no notice is required So the end result will be the top dogs at ccp right before the go outta business they raise the price to 100 usd per month bill everyones card post it on the site and shut down haha dammit i need a cig FIX THE GD FLEET BATTLE LAG AND ALL WILL BE FORGIVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Blue Pills Make Me Happy**
voodoo	Posted - 2004.02.18 19:32:00 - [140] come the fu* on I just got to check my email and low and behole I get a newsletter from ccp the 1st ever newsletter, LMFAO yeah all the things goin on in eve and oh yeah BTW theres been a subscription increase lol you guys really me off dammit I need a cig The Blue Pills Make Me Happy**
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2004.02.18 19:37:00 - [141] No e-mails here.. But looking at the new prices on the main page of this thread.. It looks like the 3 month plan is the same price it's always been for me at $35.85 nStuff. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2004.02.18 19:39:00 - [142] It's cool if your british with a US bank accoutn with the pound and dollar right now. "Teh lord of Nonni"
Khrom Hazen	Posted - 2004.02.18 20:04:00 - [143] Raising the prices?? Excuse me? Arent CCP all dandy and boasty about getting more records of ppl online these days. To me that equals to bigger profits. Guess that isnt enough. They have to get more of our money to afford their so wanted weekend beach house.... They have yet to deliver the Advertised product. EVE a world where the economics and politics are player driven. Where Corporations are more than just another clan/military squad type of player groups. So far we have seen a market that is based on BPCs sells or the occasional rare drops. Eve is now a world of solely PVP oriented game where the greivers are protected much more than the new player trying to make his "way up". And I wont even start about the quality and the efficiency of their support when some problem arises. Their only (lame) attemps to quell some of the people (paying customers) are to add some 'quick' and new features... Even then, they fail to deliver on the long run... Best example; Tech2 research and stuff. I played this game since very early beta and have dealt with all the bugs, grievers, failed delivery of real content from the advertised product. (I wont even start on the diff. nerfs they did). EVE is now just another 'CS in space'... If I'd one of the creators of EVE, I would be greatly dissapointed in what it is now and what is keeps turning into... Khrom Hazen XO Kusari Systems
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.02.18 20:35:00 - [144] This change doesnt affect those who have their accounts free of charge *Spawn of the Devil*
Zabian	Posted - 2004.02.18 20:46:00 - [145] 7000+ in one world....yah I don't understand the level of excitement here, not to compare game type's, but EQ has 47 servers, with around 5k on each during peak....that's about 235k people logged in at one time. Don't get me wrong, a world that can handle 7k+ is great, but Eve has nowhere near the numbers that MANY other MMORPG's have. From May of last year....the USD is down about 4isk as of today from 72ISK per to 68ISK per...so forgive my math, but a $2 a month increase is a 136.4 isk increase.....hmm doesn't seem to add up does it. Come on CCP, just admit to a price increase! Z
Achec	Posted - 2004.02.18 20:52:00 - [146] Edited by: Achec on 18/02/2004 20:52:55 How the are their 8 pages of this? do people actually think that there will be people reading this tripe after the 2nd page. .. realises that no one will be reading this that means.. *does a little dance
Redwolf	Posted - 2004.02.18 21:41:00 - [147] Edited by: Redwolf on 18/02/2004 21:45:54 Quote: 1 Euro = 1.28 Dollar currently If you are in Europe, you just won a 28% suscription price increase! Grats :( Sorry i thought it was closer to 50%! $12.95=EUR10.21 on XE.com at the moment. now up your monthly to EUR14.95, and it looks a lot bigger to me.
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.18 21:55:00 - [148] Edited by: LukAsh on 18/02/2004 21:58:25 Quote: How the are their 8 pages of this? do people actually think that there will be people reading this tripe after the 2nd page. I did becouse I'm pis'ed, and do irrational things in this state... Monty Burns: Quote: But it hasn't gone up 15 euro has it? If it has gone up 15 euro then fair play ... moan, but if its NEW price is 15 from say 13 .... then ??? come on ... You haven't understood what I meant by 15EU - $13 = 12 beers. In my country - that is Poland - we don't earn as much as GB, France or USA, we earn much less, but we have this nice perk that our stuff like food or cars cost much less. Now to the beers - at current exchange rates I will have to pay (Poland will be in UE in May whooope) about 50% more (not a joke, now paying 50zloty for month, will have to pay 73zloty) each month. In beer currency I will have to pay them 11-12! more nice beers for playing EVE, totaling about 33 beers. And that is making me mad, becouse it's not worth it... I mean really - 33 good half-liter lagers form local brewery ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Atraeus	Posted - 2004.02.18 22:01:00 - [149] Just cancelled my account and i must say it hurt to do so very badly because i have made some very good friends and played this game too much probably.But,CCP is being extremely greedy ,NO one in the mmorpg charges $15 a month to play there game,...no,....not eq ,daoc ,or final fantasy.Greed is the only reason,plain and simple,I can't stand to think that a company has gotten this way ,but i guess we all change when a little success goes to our head;/And i'm not going to promote this trend ,no matter how much i love a game,and i love this one:(Sorry to see ya guys go,over and out:(
Redwolf	Posted - 2004.02.18 22:50:00 - [150] Thanx to LukAsh for qualifying it is a 50% increase near enough. I'm cancelling too, I dont wanna be ripped off, while ccp introduces new content to cover up the fact they havent fixed the bugs from the old content yet!
Durandal	Posted - 2004.02.18 23:00:00 - [151] Edited by: Durandal on 18/02/2004 23:01:40 Ok, so the new price is 14.95 euros/month or $14.95/month. The 3 month and 6 month remain unchanged. Now the $ price has increased from $12.95-$14.95, but what has the euro price increased from to get to 14.95? I only ask cos this got confusing around page 5 of ranting. I pay for 6month subs anyway, so this has no affect on me what so ever. But a $2 increase doesn't seem to bad, less than one pint of beer a month. If the gripe is about a euro increase of E2.00 a month (if thats what it is), then it is more....but I couldn't give a monkeys butt what the Americans pay by comparison. As it is, living in the UK means you pay more for pretty much everything anyway c.f. US and Continental Europe. If it bothers you that much, watch you cash for 2 weeks and get a 3 month sub. Yay to Eve, I still love playing it. however, I would appreciate a clear demonstration of how this equates to a 50% increase, seriously, I want to know, and I did get confused :S "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
Tess	Posted - 2004.02.18 23:40:00 - [152] Two US accounts cancelled today, sorry but this game isn't worth $14.95 per account each month.
Phyo	Posted - 2004.02.18 23:56:00 - [153] Durandel, for europeans the price goes from 10,21 to 14,95. This is a price increase of 4,74 euro per month = 46.4% Knowing that maximum VAT in europe is 25%, this increase is outrageous. European players are billed for CCP's profitloss on american customers.
Lex Luger	Posted - 2004.02.19 01:56:00 - [154] Account canceled. When CCP delivers the game they keep promising us i might resubscribe. Or when hell freezes over.
voodoo	Posted - 2004.02.19 02:09:00 - [155] Quote: Durandel, for europeans the price goes from 10,21 to 14,95. This is a price increase of 4,74 euro per month = 46.4% Knowing that maximum VAT in europe is 25%, this increase is outrageous. European players are billed for CCP's profitloss on american customers. umm hey here in the USA we also have a price increase of the stupid 2 dolla so you're not paying crap for CCP's so called loss on american players. Your paying more from what I understand is something called the "vat" What ever it is if they are loosing money on american players its because we're getting sick and tired of this BS and we obviously wont sit around and take. The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
swisher	Posted - 2004.02.19 04:50:00 - [156] Quote: What ever it is if they are loosing money on american players its because we're getting sick and tired of this BS and we obviously wont sit around and take. Well said...you know what is shock'n is that if a US company was in CCP shoes ..we would had run this game alot better..because that is what we do. Blah..I hope one in there devs team can get there hands on the core source code for this game and sells eve out so that another better company can go off what they poorly have tried to do...you never know :)
Falkrum	Posted - 2004.02.19 05:20:00 - [157] Well, with the current lack of things to do in the game..the price increase is not looking good..It's gonna give some bored friends an excuse not to renew.. and sadly if they go, so will I.
Durandal	Posted - 2004.02.19 07:40:00 - [158] Edited by: Durandal on 19/02/2004 07:42:06 Quote: Durandel, for europeans the price goes from 10,21 to 14,95. This is a price increase of 4,74 euro per month = 46.4% Knowing that maximum VAT in europe is 25%, this increase is outrageous. European players are billed for CCP's profitloss on american customers. Ah, ok. That makes sense. As I said before, the price change for me is zero, since I have a 6 month sub. Before all these players cancel their accounts they should maybe think about changing to at least a 3 month sub. Especially where they know they are gonna be playing for at least this much longer. However, if subs start getting cancelled en masse, CCP really need to look at this situation. On a final note, the percentage increase can be somewhat misleading....granted 4,74 euros is 46.4% increase, but then this is still only 2 pints at the pub, and sounds very large since the original price wasn't that high anyway. I think I must be one of the only lucky ones because having always paid a 6 month sub since June I am actually paying less for eve now than I have been at any other time due to the UK pound being so strong (ú = yay for once). Rather than cancel my sub I have 3 6month sub accounts "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
Ly'sol	Posted - 2004.02.19 08:06:00 - [159] Its just 2 bucks. -------------------------- Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
Heelay Ashrum	Posted - 2004.02.19 08:07:00 - [160] Substription deleted, bye bye CCP. Ah yust for info: if i some european ask to pay in Dollars, not euros, u (ccp) will allow that? just curious ...
Monty Burns	Posted - 2004.02.19 09:28:00 - [161] Quote: How the ** are their 8 pages of this? do people actually think that there will be people reading this tripe after the 2nd page. You have .... at least some of it... nothing constructive? then why say it? Back to intelligent conversation: Quote:** You haven't understood what I meant by 15EU - $13 = 12 beers. In my country - that is Poland - we don't earn as much as GB, France or USA, we earn much less ..... <snip> .... at current exchange rates I will have to pay (Poland will be in UE in May whooope) about 50% more (not a joke, now paying 50zloty for month, will have to pay 73zloty) each month. Polish eh ... kewl ... spend a lot of time in Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw so I understand your pain (yes im from London). I agree that it may be more for you but at the end of the day you have to weigh up, can you afford/WANT to afford this much for the game? Only you can make that decision for you. The majority of people moaning in this thread are in, umm, higher earning contries I would imagine. To them they are moaning about a rise that will be much less than a packet of smokes or about the price of a beer. If the price for 6 months has not changed why not just buy that? As long as you don't break the VERY liberal rules in the game you have nothing to loose :-) Good luck all! Darwin 4tw
Elizabeth Powers	Posted - 2004.02.19 09:41:00 - [162] For the amount I play this game, ú10 a month seems ok.
Absolute0	Posted - 2004.02.19 09:43:00 - [163] Just to clear something up with are Non-EU friends. In the EU we used to pay the same as you $12.95 a month. Now they have increase the price by $2 AND changed the currency we pay in to Euro's. This means where we did pay $12.95 we now pay 14.95 Euro's . At the current exchange rate 14.95 euros = $18.99 So Non-EU customers pay a 15% increase. EU customers pay a 47% increase. Yes, I know that we have to pay VAT, but a 32% difference?? There's not a country in the EU with a VAT rate of 32% the highest is 25% and $18.99 a month!!!! Now you see why we think the price is to high? Eve just became the most expensive online game.
Black Shadow	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:09:00 - [164] Edited by: Black Shadow on 19/02/2004 10:10:19 we have no chosen or pay or cancel the subscription I opt for the second one.
Elizabeth Powers	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:11:00 - [165] Anyone cancelling could give me a little isk ! I've only just started in eve, and I'm finding it hard to make ends meet. At least benefit others.
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:12:00 - [166] Quote: Polish eh ... kewl ... spend a lot of time in Warsaw, Krakow and Wroclaw so I understand your pain (yes im from London). Been in London myself mate very nice city ;-) Quote: I agree that it may be more for you but at the end of the day you have to weigh up, can you afford/WANT to afford this much for the game? I can afford it... But I honestly think that the value of this game is not worth it. And if they want to add the tax, that would be ok for me, but they should add 22%VAT (as it is in my country), but they force me to change to euro and pay almost 50% more! If they want more money they should say that and not feed us this tax bullst. Quote:** If the price for 6 months has not changed why not just buy that? As long as you don't break the VERY liberal rules in the game you have nothing to loose :-) I thought about it, but again its about value... I want to decide what I want to do with my money and not beeing forced to choose 3 or 6 months. Especially when I'm quite bored and see not much positive changes after much anticipated Castor. Damn I haven't even seen one tech2 item with my own eyes, I just know that they are there somwhere. Doing R&D agent mission every day for over a month, and mining omber with my Omen every day just isn't so fun as it was before. So today I've cancelled my subscription I still have 20 days more left, maybe there will be a miracle... ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
Elizabeth Powers	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:15:00 - [167] Even a donation of 100k isk would be of assistance. I'm trying to afford a vexor at the moment.
Torath	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:33:00 - [168] I have waited and waited until I felt it time to add to this thread. I can't believe how much of an issue it is that you are having to pay such a small amount extra!! I pay less than ú10 a month for Eve and this more than justifies itself on the amount of playing time I get. If it is stretching your income that much to add a couple of ú,$ or Euro to you Monthly sub then how could you justify playing in the first place. I have to say it seems like most of this is just someplace for you moan @ss F*KERS to cry about something else you don't like that has happened to the game. I AM GLAD YOU ARE LEAVING BECAUSE THE PRICE HAS GONE UP. NOW JUST Removed* OFF!!! No profanity please - Wrangler You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
Coupe Soleil	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:43:00 - [169] Quote: I have waited and waited until I felt it time to add to this thread. I can't believe how much of an issue it is that you are having to pay such a small amount extra!! I pay less than ú10 a month for Eve and this more than justifies itself on the amount of playing time I get. If it is stretching your income that much to add a couple of ú,$ or Euro to you Monthly sub then how could you justify playing in the first place. I have to say it seems like most of this is just someplace for you moan @ss F*KERS to cry about something else you don't like that has happened to the game. <snip> The problem is not the few euros extra I have to pay. It's the fact that I'll be charged 50% more, with only a reasonable explanation for half of that. (the VAT) According to the Eula I'll be charged in dollars. Now that they changed that I'll be paying a lot more because the Euro is so expensive. So the question I'd like to see answered is why we Europeans have to pay in Euros suddenly. Give me a reasonable explanation (I don't even need a good one) why and I'll be happy. But this deafening silence from CCP is very annoying. And no, I will not fck off because you can't stand people demanding answers for these kind of price increases.
Arleonenis	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:48:00 - [170] Torath snip, you think that earnings peoples that live in diffrent countrys, are same as yours? snip, And yes i just cancelled my subcription too, so you will be very happy
Torath	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:57:00 - [171] Quote: Quote: I have waited and waited until I felt it time to add to this thread. I can't believe how much of an issue it is that you are having to pay such a small amount extra!! I pay less than ú10 a month for Eve and this more than justifies itself on the amount of playing time I get. If it is stretching your income that much to add a couple of ú,$ or Euro to you Monthly sub then how could you justify playing in the first place. I have to say it seems like most of this is just someplace for you moan @ss F*KERS to cry about something else you don't like that has happened to the game. <snip> The problem is not the few euros extra I have to pay. It's the fact that I'll be charged 50% more, with only a reasonable explanation for half of that. (the VAT) According to the Eula I'll be charged in dollars. Now that they changed that I'll be paying a lot more because the Euro is so expensive. So the question I'd like to see answered is why we Europeans have to pay in Euros suddenly. Give me a reasonable explanation (I don't even need a good one) why and I'll be happy. But this deafening silence from CCP is very annoying. And no, I will not fck off because you can't stand people demanding answers for these kind of price increases. Its such a small amount of cash increase that it doesn't matter to me. I don't care about the increase because I felt I was getting more than value for money anyway. Instead of moaning about it why don't you Subscribe for 3 months or 6 months where there is no increase. Or are you one of the player who like to have the power to cancel at the slightest whim? I understand that we do not all have the same income but like I said in my previous post if such a small increase is putting a great burden on your income then how could you justify playing in the first place?
Torath	Posted - 2004.02.19 10:59:00 - [172] Quote: Torath you are very stupid person, you think that earnings peoples that live in diffrent countrys, are same as yours? Moron And yes i just cancelled my subcription too, so you will be very happy If I was so stupid I wouldn't be earning the money to not worry about a minor increase to what was a small amount anyway. Well now you have cancelled you can now afford to go and do what with the extra 14 euro a month? You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
Coupe Soleil	Posted - 2004.02.19 11:27:00 - [173] Quote: Its such a small amount of cash increase that it doesn't matter to me. I don't care about the increase because I felt I was getting more than value for money anyway. Instead of moaning about it why don't you Subscribe for 3 months or 6 months where there is no increase. Or are you one of the player who like to have the power to cancel at the slightest whim? Almost right Torath. The difference is that we have to pay in Euros suddenly. And that still accounts for a 30% price increase, in allsubscriptions. And that is what I'd like to see answered. I coulnd't care less about the few Euros extra per month, but I'd like to know why we have to pay in Euros suddenly. I'm sure CCP has put some thought in this move, and I think it's only fair that they communicate it to us. You have to agree on that I hope. (although I also realize that the words CCP and communicate are a difficult combination to use together. )
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.19 11:53:00 - [174] I am fine with the increase in price, I can afford it, and I like EVE. What make me explode is that I am now beeing forced to pay in EURO. That means that the total amount I pay is more than if I payed in USD. Do you see where I am going? If they charged me in USD just like they charge anyone outside EU in USD i'd be perfectly happy and willing to accept it. I am not willing to accept beeing forced into paying in EURP while anyone else not in Europe get to pay in USD. And for the record, Denmark is not a member of the EURO. We said no to that coninage, so wth should I pay in EURO? It's not like it's my native currency. Allow me to pay in USD and I'll be happy and pay the increase. Why should people paying in USD get off easier than people paying in EURO? From a money grabbing PoV CCP is playing it right, rip off the europeans. Hopefully the amount of subscriptions they loose over this will make in unviable to have ever doen so. -------------------------
Adrin	Posted - 2004.02.19 13:22:00 - [175] What Judicator said is the problem: There is no real increase in USD (only the 1 months subscription and that can be seen as an option to force people to 3 or 6 months subscription). The problem is that we europeans have to pay in Euros! With the actual exchange rate from this morning: 65,70 USD = 65,70 USD 65,70 EUR = 83,39 USD Tell me why the hell i should pay ~27% more than an non EU resident ? (biggest VAT =25%, my VAT = 16%) That is what i can't understand. They have risen the prices ONLY for EU customers ?!
Durandal	Posted - 2004.02.19 17:53:00 - [176] Edited by: Durandal on 19/02/2004 17:56:00 Quote: What Judicator said is the problem: There is no real increase in USD (only the 1 months subscription and that can be seen as an option to force people to 3 or 6 months subscription). The problem is that we europeans have to pay in Euros! With the actual exchange rate from this morning: 65,70 USD = 65,70 USD 65,70 EUR = 83,39 USD Tell me why the hell i should pay ~27% more than an non EU resident ? (biggest VAT =25%, my VAT = 16%) That is what i can't understand. They have risen the prices ONLY for EU customers ?! No, they have increased prices in US by $2 for one month sub but left 3 and 6 month subs alone. I don't see why you are getting so upset about paying more than US....we in Europe pay more for a crap load of stuff, and in the UK we even pay more than in Continental Europe. Its no different from anything else. I've said it already, but I really don't mind this increase, and if people can afford to pay one month subs, and then do that for the last 6 months, switching to a 3 month sub should not be a problem and negates the effects of the price increase "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!"
KIAHicks	Posted - 2004.02.19 19:12:00 - [177] bye. Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
Erty	Posted - 2004.02.19 20:28:00 - [178] This is almost a 50% increase in subscription cost if you buy 1 month at a time... (change from $ to Ç and 2 extra Ç). That's crappy. I've changed to 3 months at a time :) This is my signature.
Styrmir	Posted - 2004.02.19 22:47:00 - [179] Edited by: Styrmir on 19/02/2004 23:00:49 I just rejoined the game and look forward to getting back in. I agree with what many have said here like Judicator. A slight price increase of 2 $ for the 1 month sub is fine but to charge the same in Euros and dollars is just. I think CCP must have made a mistake there and not realized the difference in the two. Sadly there is no universal currency so the natural thing is of course to have different amount for different currencies so that the worth of it will be the same. There is no logic for this charging people differently according to where they live apart maybe for some tax reasons. Why can't just everyone pay in $? Almost all products on the internet are payed for in that currency. Well, I hope they mend their ways. It's still a very good game so lets not let something like this cause resentment in the players Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum
Styrmir	Posted - 2004.02.19 23:03:00 - [180] I just checked my account info. I just renewed earlier today and I payed in $. I am living in Iceland which outside the EU. Are the people in EU who have not agreed to the Euro still forced to use that? That is strange... Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum
Wyrminaard	Posted - 2004.02.19 23:56:00 - [181] I do agree that the ISK they recieve from Euros and dollars should be the same at the moment they change the paying system. After that if one currency changes it should not effect what you charge for in the other. By having their players pay in two currencies they cut their currency risk in half and given that the dollar just keeps going down it makes very good sense from a risk management viewpoint.
Celt Eireson	Posted - 2004.02.20 00:34:00 - [182] Few points, most already pointed out but I thought I would reinforce them: Pretty much every other online game on the market is US based, hence in dollars, hence currency fluctuations don't effect the dollar price per month. The US dollar has gone down since the originally started billing the game, and looks like it will further. CCP aren't the only European company (online or not) to have been hit by the weakness of the dollar, and they aren't the only company who have problems selling to the states because of this. No idea why they changed european clients over to euros, maybe they had to in order to comply with regulations? Would be nice to know, but somehow I can't see them doing it for now reason. If the increase is a problem, why not just pay 3 or 6 monthly? It hasn't changed, and whilst one reason is probably to stabilise income over shorter periods, its also a cheaper for them to process/administer and hence they are more likely to be able to afford to not increase it. And re the VAT - the only people who get to see that are the Euro beurocracy, whatever percentage CCP are tagging onto the price for European customers CCP will not see a penny of it. As people have pointed out, whilst they are a lil late in applying it they don't have a choice in the matter.
Jake Pliskin	Posted - 2004.02.20 03:31:00 - [183] Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 20/02/2004 03:36:53 Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 20/02/2004 03:33:16 let's do maths i'm in the uk Subscription Type: 6 Months, $65.70 notice how i've been paying in dollars so far when my sub next needs to be renewed, i'll be paying in Euro this is what i calculated using current exchange rates transfering dollar and euro to uk pound what i pay now: ú34.60 for a 6 month sub next time i will pay: ú44.11 for a 6 month sub an increase of: ú9.51 or $18.05 United States Dollars i'm in the uk, and i resent greatly being forced to pay in the Euro currency (which will never arrive in the Uk, if anyone has any sense) edited: making sure to get those dollar and pound symbols in the right place
Dawson	Posted - 2004.02.20 06:55:00 - [184] ú44.11 isnt really a lot though if your asking me, reasonable price. The way I see it, if i go out one day in the week Iam gonna spend around ú40. Now if I stay in a few days extra and play eve instead it means iam gonna be saving money. Although looking at your calculations ú9.51 increase that is robbery when looking at the ú to Larger ratio I could get 3-4 drinks out of that. Ambassador Admiral of the Blue Join BSC
Judicator	Posted - 2004.02.20 10:19:00 - [185] As the other thread where I posted thsi got locked I will repost here. Begin: I made a post in the dev blog yesterday adressed to Hellmar and I actually got an answer. The reason for the switch to EURO is that the exchange rate is what covers the VAT. I redid the calculation and found that with the current exchange rate I am paying a fraction above 25% VAT, Danish VAT is 25%. This will obviously change depending on how strong the DKR is against the Euro, but since Denmark has an "exchange rate fixing" towards the EURO I do not see any chance I'll ever get below 25% or high above 25%. It your national currency is stronger than the EURO your VAT is lower than mine, if not it can be higher. For me Hellmars answer revealed the logic in it, I was just starring myself blind on the % I was paying more. They are covering the VAT via the exchange rate, that in itself is clever enough and a tad risky due to currency fluctuations. I could illustrate this more. Say we still payed in USD. A non-european will be paying 14.95 USD since he does not have to pay VAT. Europeans will pay 14.95 USD + their VAT. According to the Directive residents are paying VAT according to their national VAT. If I use myself as an example I would be paying 14.95 * 1.25 = 18.68 USD. 14.95 EURO is approx. 19 USD so it evens out almost. Some will loose out a bit, others will win some, but overall it's actually a pretty neat way of doing it if you ask me. So despite not liking this change I can't really hold it against CCP. The EU gets my hate and anger now. End: -------------------------
Daxit	Posted - 2004.02.20 10:22:00 - [186] IF you paid in USD as a European... $14.95 * 1.25 (max VAT tax it sounds like) = $18.6875 Currently (from http://www.xe.com/ucc/) 1.00 USD = 0.790505 EUR 1 USD = 0.790505 EUR 1 EUR = 1.26501 USD 18.6875 USD * 0.790505 E/USD = E 14.7725621875 What CCP said they did was wrap the VAT tax into the listed Euro price. Granted, they are still a bit high (as mentioned before, around 27-28% "tax"), and I think it's a bit unfair to those Euro countries that are less than 25% VAT. There are really only a select few reasons for a Euro to complain: 1) They live in a country where the VAT rate is less than 25% 2) They do not think that value of the game is worth E 14.95 The overall added cost to a European is 2 USD + VAT. The overall added cost to a American is 2 USD. The 1.26:1 E:USD negates the 1.25 VAT multiplier...which is why the Euro price SHOULD be just barely under the US price (E 14.77 v. USD 14.95) The only major question I have though, and it was mentioned previously as well I believe, If this Directive has been in effect since July 1, 2003... Why is CCP only now abiding by the Directive?
Astrid Tron	Posted - 2004.02.20 10:37:00 - [187] They probably have been paying that tax all along - from the sub-fees we paid. Now this is putting a strain on their economy, and they need to get the money from somewhere, in this case raising the fees. Actually, everyone should be happy for the time CCP paid the EU-bill, instead of complaining that they now, forced by laws, have to raise the fees. As I am not entirely an expert in EU law, it may be the case that the law was passed in mid-2003, and take effect now in Feb 2004. But I believe that the above is the right explanation. --------------------------------------------- When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite
Roba	Posted - 2004.02.20 11:16:00 - [188] Wooo! yah go USD!
Phyo	Posted - 2004.02.20 17:00:00 - [189] Edited by: Phyo on 20/02/2004 17:09:00 Quote: (change from $ to Ç and 2 extra Ç). Indeed, and what is the 2 extra Ç for ? US customers have to pay 2 dollars more, cause the dollar declined. Very logical. Explain to me why europeans have to pay up for the same issue. And before you start again.. Hellmar said in the devblog : The change from $ to Ç covers for the VAT. Still miss the explanation on the 2Ç price raise. I planned to play this game for years to come, but I like fairness, if CCP like to tell lies, then eve is history for me. Is 2Ç too much for me, no.. no problem at all. Is a lie too much for me.. oh yes.
Queen Hawk	Posted - 2004.02.21 10:45:00 - [190] Too Bad It has come to this, I liquadated 2 of my accounts and set them to suspend. Lol, Us poor Canadians, that is 4 dollar increase, and with the way the game has been going stale the price hike was enough to tip the scales. I hope they do not loose too many accounts because of this, It will kill the point of the price hike, and the Idea of attracting new customers to fill the ranks will be that much slower now. Oh well, I am sure somone crunched all the numbers, and the price hike seemed like a good idea. See you all when the prices drop or the the game content is fixed to be worth the $25 a month :) Cheers
Tar om	Posted - 2004.02.21 11:26:00 - [191] There is only one answer to this: BOMB BRUSSELS!!! (but in a UN approved manner of course) -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
LukAsh	Posted - 2004.02.21 11:47:00 - [192] Quote: BOMB BRUSSELS!!! (but in a UN approved manner of course) Naah, let's just ask US to do it as a favour, they don't give s**t 'bout UN ___ WTB: +5 Implants.
nails	Posted - 2004.02.21 12:17:00 - [193] I still spend more money on anime dvds a month. MMOG subscriptions are hella cheap. and the 6 month plan is a steal. ------------------ http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
Dalmont Delantee	Posted - 2004.02.21 18:14:00 - [194] I'll be paying no matter what, because the game is great...6 month subscription prices are great value anyhows. Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons
Ishiko	Posted - 2004.02.21 18:54:00 - [195] Quote: There is only one answer to this: BOMB BRUSSELS!!! (but in a UN approved manner of course) Warn me first, so i can get out of the city - "Whatever doesn't kill me 'd better get the hell out of my way-
Zalman	Posted - 2004.02.21 19:14:00 - [196] Account closed today. Bye eve.

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