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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:11:00 -
[1]
Its about time CCP, loose the insta jump ablity in game.
Its demoralishing to see peeps in slow ships just jump past you 
And seriusly it would make the game more fun.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:15:00 -
[2]
How about no. You got Warp Distubtors. Use them or loose the prey.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 18/02/2004 16:19:21
Would work if you have the deployable ones, but else no dice, they just jump.
And i still think it would be more fun, instead of just being able to make them and jump, without having to fight for it
This is a PvP game after all.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Judicator
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:20:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 18/02/2004 16:19:21
Would work if you have the deployable ones, but else no dice, they just jump.
And i still think it would be more fun, instead of just being able to make them and jump, without having to fight for it
This is a PvP game after all.
IIRC the deployable ones now drop as rat loot. It's just like Tech II blueprints, you got to go through heaps of work to get them
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:25:00 -
[5]
Just go to the other gate where they jump in.
It's actually quite lazy to suggest one can shut down a corridor by sitting at a single gate.
Or jump through the gate after them and you will have 10+ seconds to lock them on the other side.
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Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:33:00 -
[6]
Quote:
This is a PvP game after all.
There's a very wide interpretation of what PvP is in this game. It doesnĘt HAVE to be people shooting laser beams at each other. Actually I donĘt see much PvP in destroying ships when you clearly have the advantage and they are not fitted for a fight.
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What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:41:00 -
[7]
yeah. Please make it so that anyone who warps to a bookmark that places them within 15km of a gate/station gets instantly killed, podded and have their accounts deleted. Without telling anyone first also.
/this guy has seen a couple to many ships laming through.
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Jim Diggery
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:59:00 -
[8]
poor Gate campers, are people getting past you?? boo hoo hoo 
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Atar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:03:00 -
[9]
Quote:
poor Gate campers, are people getting past you?? boo hoo hoo
HAHAHA right on m8
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cypriss
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:07:00 -
[10]
camp the side they jump in on...then you have no worries about bookmarks. assuming you want to toll them, you wouldn't worry about the ones that are empty worping into the gate you are camping. you want the ones that jump through from the mining grounds, easy pickings. if you just want to blow people up for no good reason, then tough luck.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:07:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Just go to the other gate where they jump in.
It's actually quite lazy to suggest one can shut down a corridor by sitting at a single gate.
Or jump through the gate after them and you will have 10+ seconds to lock them on the other side.
What he said.
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:11:00 -
[12]
A new low for even the gate-gankers.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:36:00 -
[13]
Quote:
This is a PvPgame afterall.
PvP for who? The people who don't want to? Come on, find warp disruptors, gank more than one gate, do something.
It's hard eh, actually having to do something for your money?
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Torvus
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:36:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Its about time CCP, loose the insta jump ablity in game.
Its demoralishing to see peeps in slow ships just jump past you
And seriusly it would make the game more fun.
Good god, not another one.
When are you people going to learn, this isn't ever, remotely, even slightly, going to happen.
Instead of coming in here and whining, why don't you use your brain, and adapt - become successful without having to have it given to you on a plate.
Or you could always leave. That'd work for me.
_____________________________________________________________
War is much too serious a matter to be entrusted to the military.
Georges Clemenceau (1841 - 1929)
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Jebidus Skari
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:43:00 -
[15]
Quote:
A new low for even the gate-gankers.
Oracle aren't gate gankers though 
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:13:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Quote:
Just go to the other gate where they jump in.
It's actually quite lazy to suggest one can shut down a corridor by sitting at a single gate.
Or jump through the gate after them and you will have 10+ seconds to lock them on the other side.
What he said.
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
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Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:14:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
A new low for even the gate-gankers.
Oracle aren't gate gankers though
Well, they are training for it then. Why would there corp whiner come here and post this stupid thread if they have no intention of gate-ganking??
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EVE-DB Staff member |
Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:16:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
Maybe it is time for you to find a decent line of work then. If you are asking CCP to help you kill people, clearly you have failed to be a succesfull pirate yourself.
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EVE-DB Staff member |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:17:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Quote:
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
Maybe it is time for you to find a decent line of work then. If you are asking CCP to help you kill people, clearly you have failed to be a succesfull pirate yourself.
I'm not a pirate, but you sure are a someone I don't care a lot about
Edited out the profanity -Klio
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Valeria
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:19:00 -
[20]
I think it's quite silly that when a frigate with MWD and a industrial with insta-jump bookmarks travel the same path, the industrial pilot gains a few seconds on the frigate each system. That's just not right. Frigate topspeed: 2+ km/s... Industrial topspeed: 150 m/s. Flawed game mechanics if anything.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Leitari
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:20:00 -
[21]
This would be a good tool for pirate hunters as well, do not forget about them.
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Major Trucker
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:23:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Its about time CCP, loose the insta jump ablity in game.
Why don't you go NPC hunt and get your own warp inhibitor instead of complaining about non-lazy people doing their homework and jumping by lazy gate campers. It may make the game more fun, but tripling hauling times would force me to quit without a doubt.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:24:00 -
[23]
Edited by: McWatt on 18/02/2004 18:26:22
Quote:
When are you people going to learn, this isn't ever, remotely, even slightly, going to happen.
Instead of coming in here and whining, why don't you use your brain, and adapt - become successful without having to have it given to you on a plate.
what s this thread about? clueless ppl of the universe unite?
everyone who ever camped a gate knows that bookmark kill blockades. absolutly. always.
disruptors nearly got added, actually to all gates during castor. it were (among others) pirates like myself who opted against the disruption field at each gate to save travel time.
we got screwed, as we see now, with mobile disruptors not realy in game and at a horrible prize (over 50m for the big one, thats minerals...)
served on a plate? like with the sentry guns? sec stat not recovering? or are you talking about the easy going concord guys?
think ---> post.
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Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:24:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I'm not a pirate, but you sure are a <snip>.
What are you whining about then?? And sorry that i'm not as smart as you, mister supreme commander of EVE... jeez, get a life man 
edited quote -klio
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EVE-DB Staff member |
Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:25:00 -
[25]
The flawed game mechanic is that a handful of kids can shut down 3 entire regions of space by gate-ganking. Lame.
RE: bookmarks. They don't just appear out of thin air. You can't just say, "insta-bookmark this route" and set some auto-bookmark-pilot. You have to go out, and map each and every gate, and then back the other way, then come back and test your route and make tweaks to adjust it.
This means a substantial amount of work goes into getting these things set up.
So maybe what you should do is try harder to prevent people from *making* the bookmarks in the first place, rather than come whining here about it.
Or better yet, why not just make it so that if you're in a system, and an industrial flies in, you can just press a button on your HUD, causing the indy to just blow up and all their cargo is instantly transported into yours?
Seems to me you want the rewards of gate ganking, but don't wanna do any work for it.
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Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:26:00 -
[26]
Quote:
I think it's quite silly that when a frigate with MWD and a industrial with insta-jump bookmarks travel the same path, the industrial pilot gains a few seconds on the frigate each system. That's just not right. Frigate topspeed: 2+ km/s... Industrial topspeed: 150 m/s. Flawed game mechanics if anything.
People just buy the bookmark on the market then. I want some .0 bm's too, which NPC faction sells them?
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EVE-DB Staff member |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:28:00 -
[27]
Edited by: McWatt on 18/02/2004 18:29:33
^ clueless again. how long did copying the bookmarks take you?
(postman, you were to fast!!!, was still talking to the guy above you....)
or making them on a 1000 users morning?
a feww ppl closing three regions? may i suggest someone kicks them out??
never thought of this? ithought so.
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:29:00 -
[28]
Quote:
The flawed game mechanic is that a handful of kids can shut down 3 entire regions of space by gate-ganking. Lame.
RE: bookmarks. They don't just appear out of thin air. You can't just say, "insta-bookmark this route" and set some auto-bookmark-pilot. You have to go out, and map each and every gate, and then back the other way, then come back and test your route and make tweaks to adjust it.
This means a substantial amount of work goes into getting these things set up.
So maybe what you should do is try harder to prevent people from *making* the bookmarks in the first place, rather than come whining here about it.
Or better yet, why not just make it so that if you're in a system, and an industrial flies in, you can just press a button on your HUD, causing the indy to just blow up and all their cargo is instantly transported into yours?
Seems to me you want the rewards of gate ganking, but don't wanna do any work for it.
Its actually you group that wants to mine and haul in 0.0 space without having any of the risks. Whats silly is industrials getting through multiple ship blockades without ever being remotely threatened.
Not to mention you cannot catch up with them with even the fastest of ships.
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Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:31:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Or better yet, why not just make it so that if you're in a system, and an industrial flies in, you can just press a button on your HUD, causing the indy to just blow up and all their cargo is instantly transported into yours?
Don't give them ideas because they are going to ask for that next time...
Maybe a window should be made where you can select isk, equipment, ore, minerals, etc. and just insert the amount you want. Ow, wait, too much work probably, can't have people do more then 1 thing in this game. Well, back to the drawing board then
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EVE-DB Staff member |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:31:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Edited by: McWatt on 18/02/2004 18:29:33
^ clueless again. how long did copying the bookmarks take you?
(postman, you were to fast!!!, was still talking to the guy above you....)
or making them on a 1000 users morning?
a feww ppl closing three regions? may i suggest someone kicks them out??
never thought of this? ithought so.
yes, those handful of people should be forced out, shouldn't be able to simply ignore them with no backside to it whatsoever.
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Teelmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:31:00 -
[31]
Umm with the new gates it almost impossible to close down a region now. If someone puts together enough ships to stop traffic at a gate than they should reap the reward. If you dont like it, get some ships together and go chase them away, pay someone to do it, or fly around the blockade. Plenty of options, start thinking and stop *****ing. Or just end yourself.
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Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:33:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Edited by: McWatt on 18/02/2004 18:29:33
^ clueless again. how long did copying the bookmarks take you?
(postman, you were to fast!!!, was still talking to the guy above you....)
or making them on a 1000 users morning?
a feww ppl closing three regions? may i suggest someone kicks them out??
never thought of this? ithought so.
Well, i would go for the option that bookmark copying is removed. People would still have to make the bm then and a good closed system wouldn't allow for the making of such bm's (ok, it is possible, but you can at least kill/pod the person making the bm).
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EVE-DB Staff member |
Postman
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:35:00 -
[33]
Might i add that when i joined this game i read somewhere that EVE had a option to warp from gate to gate, so the current system isn't flawed at all, it could have been much worse.
Also, the warp-in bug has been fixed, all this is good for the gate-campers, not for the people making the same jumps 200x a day.
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EVE-DB Staff member |
Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:37:00 -
[34]
I don't know. I haven't seen insta-bookmark packs on the market in my area. Maybe I am not looking in the right place (but it would be a good idea!)...
This is what the disruptors are for, though. So you don't want to use them? They cost too much money?
And I think there's plenty of risk in 0.0 space. But it doesn't need to be centered around gate-gankers. Be creative! Rather than sit there camping a gate, go and actually get them while they are mining or doing whatever it is one does out there.
I use insta-bookmarks in secure space too, btw. If I have common routes that I take all the time, through 0.7-1.0 space, no, I don't want it to take an hour every time I need to make 7 jumps in my Indy.
If being a pirate is too hard for you, or isn't profitable, then you can always do something else...
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scouting
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:37:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
you mean its not possible to catch every ship
ccp, give this puppy a break will you, make it only 1 spawn point
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Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
Teelmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:45:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Be creative! Rather than sit there camping a gate, go and actually get them while they are mining or doing whatever it is one does out there.
This just proves you have no idea what you are talking about. First, when most people see pirates in local they dock (if possible) or go to a safespot. Now if they arent watching local (which most people do in 0.0), now you gotta find them. While the scanner helps, it still takes a decent amount of time especially if there are many belts/moons/planets. K now lets say i find him, most likely come out of warp not even close to the person. So now i gotta go quite a few km's to even get a warp scrambler on him. At any point in time they will notice they are about to be ganked and warp away.
Please lets not turn this into another anti-gate camping thread. Its already been explained that without the actual tools to hunt people down in safe spots etc....there is no really true way to pirate with any effectiveness on a constant basis without camping gates. Its just not possible until more tools come out in the game.
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:48:00 -
[37]
How about no. without insta jump, travel times would be unbearable for the few that travel to deep space and back on a regular basis. Besides, 9 out of 10 people dont even use them.
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Freya Jones
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:49:00 -
[38]
So Oracle is taking up pirating now? WHo would have guessed...
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Teelmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:52:00 -
[39]
Quote:
So Oracle is taking up pirating now? WHo would have guessed...
Shh nubby. Everyone involved in combat hates the damn things. Even if you arent a pirate corp, other combat corps in corp wars and other pvp still have to deal with their enemy insta-jumping. Very annoying. And oracle prolly doesnt care what you think.......shove your nubish thinking back in the hole where it came, have a c0w, and m0o away.
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:53:00 -
[40]
Everyone always assumes these kind of comments are about pirates camping gates and ganking everyone.
That is simply not the case, as someone pointed out insta-jump gate bookmarks are an issue for pirate hunters, for alliances protecting territory, for any two corps at war with each other in fact for any group of people wanting to stop any other group of people travelling.
I'm not sure that this issue should be regarded as a full on whine-fest by any particular player group, it is imho a legitimate point.
As things stand if your opponent has been able to scout for BM's or has copied a set from someone who has, the resources needed to capture them are considerable. I know this as we've been practicing specialist gate capture teams and you need a very specialist mix of skills, ships and kit to pull it off.
I guess as a positive it promotes more teamwork as you do need about 4 to 5 players to make it work with a high degree of effectiveness.
Once the deployable warp disrupters are more readily available the situation will be better, until that time the almost gauranteed safety of insta-jump BM's is a frustrating issue.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:57:00 -
[41]
No no, they are just looking into gate ganking ;)
A decent blockade shouldn't really have probs preventing an indy from passing thru, even with insta jumps. Two sides to a gate.
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Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:58:00 -
[42]
I've been against insta-jumps since I started, but think of the look on the indy pilots face when you get a warp disruptor, stop him dead and tear him a new one :D
Though they'll probably complain and petition to try and get their ship back ;/
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:00:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
Ok here's some Eve 101 for you:
1) What is the range of a warp scrambler? Answer 20km. So you answered your first point. ie warp scambler guy sits on the gate.
2) How long does it take and indy/cruiser/BS to get into warp minimum? Answer 10 seconds. With a single pulse of a MWD most people can get into warp soonest in about 10 seconds upon jumping into your sector.
Here are a few tips on getting them all who come through:
1) Mount F90 Positionals to get faster locks.
2) Use a minmatar ship to scamble with (they have the fastest locking times (coupled with an F90 it's insanly fast).
3) Some people use warp core stabilizers. If you want to make sure you get 99% of the people hit them with two.
4) Don't web a guy who just jumped in. You'll likely make him get into warp sooner by reducing his top speed. Only web people coming to the gate to jump through. You can web the guy after you scramble him to insure he doesn't break for the gate.
5) Yes some shuttles and VERY fast frigates can get into warp awfully quick. If this is your only problem then relax and just get the next guy.
There is NO reason to remove insta-jump bookmarks except for laziness on the part of the static blockade.
5)
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:03:00 -
[44]
Don't you get it? CCP won't nerf that and the reason is that they always cave in to carebear traders/miners and carebear whatever.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:06:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Don't you get it? CCP won't nerf that and the reason is that they always cave in to carebear traders/miners and carebear whatever.
Yeah, because ALL the patches have dealt with making the market work etc.... no wait?
It's usually combat related!
Silly silly me and Skillz
¼©¼
a history |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:16:00 -
[46]
Quote:
Quote:
Considering ships spawn in a random place in a 20km radius from the gate means its not allways possible to get them scrambled, and many ships are too fast anyways.
Ok here's some Eve 101 for you:
1) What is the range of a warp scrambler? Answer 20km. So you answered your first point. ie warp scambler guy sits on the gate.
2) How long does it take and indy/cruiser/BS to get into warp minimum? Answer 10 seconds. With a single pulse of a MWD most people can get into warp soonest in about 10 seconds upon jumping into your sector.
Here are a few tips on getting them all who come through:
1) Mount F90 Positionals to get faster locks.
2) Use a minmatar ship to scamble with (they have the fastest locking times (coupled with an F90 it's insanly fast).
3) Some people use warp core stabilizers. If you want to make sure you get 99% of the people hit them with two.
4) Don't web a guy who just jumped in. You'll likely make him get into warp sooner by reducing his top speed. Only web people coming to the gate to jump through. You can web the guy after you scramble him to insure he doesn't break for the gate.
5) Yes some shuttles and VERY fast frigates can get into warp awfully quick. If this is your only problem then relax and just get the next guy.
There is NO reason to remove insta-jump bookmarks except for laziness on the part of the static blockade.
5)
I read your first point. YEAH FOR THE GATE ITSELF HAS 0 RADIUS.
you should really get either experience or intelligence before inflicting yourself upon the forums.
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:21:00 -
[47]
And all of you smartasses telling me to camp the other site... guess how that makes cathing the people coming the other way.
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:44:00 -
[48]
Quote:
And all of you smartasses telling me to camp the other site... guess how that makes cathing the people coming the other way.
Guess you can't have it all. Life's not always fair.
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:50:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Skillz on 18/02/2004 19:51:05
Wrong thread.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Daniel Jackson
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:53:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 18/02/2004 19:54:40
Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 18/02/2004 19:54:12
I LOVE THE INSTA JUMPS and if u want to gate camp i found lots and lots and lots and lots of dead end systems in 0.0 and other sec systems
Caldari will once again rise above the gallente and take back Caldari prime!
Image done by Denrace |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:57:00 -
[51]
Quote:
I read your first point. YEAH FOR THE GATE ITSELF HAS 0 RADIUS.
you should really get either experience or intelligence before inflicting yourself upon the forums.
Well considering the jump in spot is actually random 12,500 km from the gate I still don't see the problem you're talking about.
Maybe you ought to heed your own advice then eh?
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:31:00 -
[52]
Funny to see alliance members being accused of being gate gankers, the peaple accusing clearly have no idea how a war works
Spawn of the Devil
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:39:00 -
[53]
if they zip past dont be a numb nut and innitiate agression and jump after them. Then lock them otherside.
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:48:00 -
[54]
Storeslem,
Don't know what game you're playing, but the JiP is now always within a 12k radius of the gate. That pretty much means insta death on the entering ship if you are equipped for fast lock and double scramble.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:13:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/02/2004 21:14:18
Geez...most of you people have no idea what it takes to stop a person at a gate. 9 times out of 10, a person that's actually at their PC and equipped for any type of speed or any type of tanking will get away cleanly.
I suspect the people replying about how easy it is to catch someone jumping into a solarsystem are:
1) Primarily hugging high sec space.
2) Primarily using instajump bookmarks to travel.
Meaning:
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The evidence is sitting dead in front of your faces and runs completely contrary to the narowminded bias their blind anti-pirate fanaticism colors their perception with. Namely:
If pirates are so lazy, are always looking for the easiest kill possible and catching people jumping in is sooooooooo easy...then why aren't they doing it?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:22:00 -
[56]
Quote:
If pirates are so lazy, are always looking for the easiest kill possible and catching people jumping in is sooooooooo easy...then why aren't they doing it?
Not sure what the point of your post is Jash accept that what pirates don't get kills?
If that is your point you are mistaken, in fact look in crime and punishment and see the brand new thread from a pirate corp saying they are doing well and good.
So either he is lying or you don't know wtf you're talking about. I'm gonna opt for the latter.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:37:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Quote:
If pirates are so lazy, are always looking for the easiest kill possible and catching people jumping in is sooooooooo easy...then why aren't they doing it?
Not sure what the point of your post is Jash accept that what pirates don't get kills?
If that is your point you are mistaken, in fact look in crime and punishment and see the brand new thread from a pirate corp saying they are doing well and good.
So either he is lying or you don't know wtf you're talking about. I'm gonna opt for the latter.
Sorry, Hematic. I'll break it down for you.
A) People claim pirates are lazy and just want easy kills
B) People say things like:
Quote:
Don't know what game you're playing, but the JiP is now always within a 12k radius of the gate. That pretty much means insta death on the entering ship if you are equipped for fast lock and double scramble
Now if B is true, then A cannot be true. You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in. So the point is, as stated, many people replying don't know what they're talking about because they:
1) Hug high sec space in furcovered ships
2) Use instajump bookmarks
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Antonino
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:39:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Quote:
poor Gate campers, are people getting past you?? boo hoo hoo
HAHAHA right on m8
LOL 
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Hematic
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 21:53:00 -
[59]
Quote:
A) People claim pirates are lazy and just want easy kills
B) People say things like:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know what game you're playing, but the JiP is now always within a 12k radius of the gate. That pretty much means insta death on the entering ship if you are equipped for fast lock and double scramble
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if B is true, then A cannot be true. You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in. So the point is, as stated, many people replying don't know what they're talking about because they:
1) Hug high sec space in furcovered ships
2) Use instajump bookmarks
Ok, I didn't realize you don't understand the mechanics of eve, let alone common english.
1) I didn't say pirates wanted easy kills I said it is rather lazy to assume one can blockade a corridor camping a single gate.
2) A and B above are two different things and are not opposites of each other so therefore both can or cannot exist on their own.
3) The fastest one will get into warp (not including frigs and shuttles) is going to be right about the 10 second mark. A fast locking minmatar ship with an f90 can activate two warp scramblers on ANYONE jumping in, in UNDER 10 seconds.
So the solution to an absolute blockade consists of camping BOTH gates and that way insta-BMs is of NO consequence.
So your only solution then Jash is to call people carebears. STFW. Call me a carebear I don't really give a shet less what you think of me because alls you do is sit behind a monitor 2000 miles away from me and hurl insults from the safety of anonymity. And if I wanted a fur covered ship I'd shave your A$$ and make your mom knit me a blanket.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:04:00 -
[60]
Quote:
So your only solution then Jash is to call people carebears. STFW. Call me a carebear I don't really give a shet less what you think of me because alls you do is sit behind a monitor 2000 miles away from me and hurl insults from the safety of anonymity. And if I wanted a fur covered ship I'd shave your A$$ and make your mom knit me a blanket.
Odd...I don't remember refering to you in the slightest. You must have seen something of yourself in what was written and chose to take offense.
Which is strange given your admittance that your day in Eve primarily consists of logging in to change skills and do your research agent's missions.
I already know that most gate campers don't stand the slightest chance of stopping me by having a few shoot at me. And I don't use instajump bookmarks. Never have. Of the people I'm aware of, Space Invaders has the best chance of stopping my Typhoon. And that's most likely to occur at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Reddari
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 22:13:00 -
[61]
So me losing a Vexor cruiser at jump-in was imagination?
I was locked real fast and the Vexor staggered to align for the next gate so it was over in 3 seconds.
Ask DNA about that, I think they can verify that they get a lot of kills that way.. in 0.3
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Achec
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:15:00 -
[62]
Quote:
I think it's quite silly that when a frigate with MWD and a industrial with insta-jump bookmarks travel the same path, the industrial pilot gains a few seconds on the frigate each system. That's just not right. Frigate topspeed: 2+ km/s... Industrial topspeed: 150 m/s. Flawed game mechanics if anything.
I get my cruiser up 6k/s with two 10mn mwd and fitted for speed, so not even the time you save with the book mark can top that :D
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:39:00 -
[63]
Quote:
...
A) People claim pirates are lazy and just want easy kills
B) People say things like:
Quote:
Don't know what game you're playing, but the JiP is now always within a 12k radius of the gate. That pretty much means insta death on the entering ship if you are equipped for fast lock and double scramble
Now if B is true, then A cannot be true. You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in. So the point is, as stated, many people replying don't know what they're talking about because they:
1) Hug high sec space in furcovered ships
2) Use instajump bookmarks
Jash,
Your logic and understanding of the issue has failed you.
First, there is no logical connection between A and B and is irrelevant anyway as I wasn't addressing things like "easy kills" and "lazy pirates". That's someone elses arguement.
I was simply pointing out the unarguable fact that JiP is now within a 12k radius of the exiting gate. We agree on that, right?
Assuming you agree on that, do you further agree that a Tempest equipped with 2 F-90's can lock any ship in under 3 seconds?
If you are agreeable so far, would you further agree that it takes 5-10 seconds to enter warp after Jump In?
If you have been nodding your head yes thus far, then the final question is - what is the outcome of a dual F-90, dual warp scramble equipped Tempest that activates his modules vs an entering ship if Tempest pilot is sitting right on top of the gate?
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:40:00 -
[64]
Multiple times I've been sitting directly on top of a gate and had a jump in 28k out
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Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 22:41:00 -
[65]
Makes more sense to camp the other side of the gate (i.e the jump-in point) rather than the warp-in point for the exact reasons Beseb gave - if you park your ship right on the jumpgate you will always be within 12km of the de-cloaking ship.
If you're at the warp-in, you've got a lot of range to cover.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Hematic
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 22:43:00 -
[66]
Quote:
Odd...I don't remember refering to you in the slightest. You must have seen something of yourself in what was written and chose to take offense.
Whatever dood. I can see through your BS innuendo. Then the coy 'what do you mean I was talking about you'. Your life must be very unsatisfying if that is how you must get through it.
Quote:
Which is strange given your admittance that your day in Eve primarily consists of logging in to change skills and do your research agent's missions.
Yes that about sums up my play time as of late.
However I was unaware of any rules that stated one must try something to understand how it works. Because I'm sure you wouldn't need someone to smash your testes with a hammer to know that it would hurt, ALOT.
So I know what it takes to travel and the tools implemented to stop travel.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:44:00 -
[67]
Bob, were those gates the huge Minmatar ones?
Distances are wierd around them - two pilots can be 0m from the gate at opposite sides and be 45km away from each other
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:48:00 -
[68]
I never use them, I think they're lame and just a way to warp the game instead of working towards a system that does work as intended.
I practise what I preach.
Which could explain a thing or two.
I'm all for ****canning them yesterday.
Convert Stations
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:48:00 -
[69]
Quote:
Bob, were those gates the huge Minmatar ones?
Distances are wierd around them - two pilots can be 0m from the gate at opposite sides and be 45km away from each other
gallante i believe
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Sqalevon
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:58:00 -
[70]
Quote:
No no, they are just looking into gate ganking ;)
A decent blockade shouldn't really have probs preventing an indy from passing thru, even with insta jumps. Two sides to a gate.
I take u on that one
I'm comming from Pator ( let me get some bookmarks today ) and will jump all the way to Amarr in a Mammoth with cargo expanders and "regular" hauling kit, i bet 1M isk on it that u cant get me down.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:22:00 -
[71]
Quote:
Makes more sense to camp the other side of the gate (i.e the jump-in point) rather than the warp-in point for the exact reasons Beseb gave - if you park your ship right on the jumpgate you will always be within 12km of the de-cloaking ship.
If you're at the warp-in, you've got a lot of range to cover.
Not really. Most people autopilot for everything. So most people fly in on a known vector. Don't look at me. I turn mine off when jumping through to change warp vector, if necessary.
Industrials don't stand a chance regardless of their warp in vector. 12.5km at 500m/s is still 6 seconds to lock and fire a ship ending salvo. Again, don't look at me. I don't take a thin skinned Mammoth places where people are likely to poke at it with sharp objects.
So you have the majority of your traffic flying down a known path into a brick wall. Or industrials you'll have enough time to hit regardless, especially with people loading them down with more cargo expanders to maximize their bigger cargo space post-castor.
Quote:
So me losing a Vexor cruiser at jump-in was imagination?
I was locked real fast and the Vexor staggered to align for the next gate so it was over in 3 seconds.
Ask DNA about that, I think they can verify that they get a lot of kills that way.. in 0.3
1) Empire space is another matter entirely. Since the sentry guns require you to be 60km away or to tank them, fast lock + volley fire is more feasible. And that works against traffic going both ways.
2) Honestly I could care less how people die in empire space as most people deserve it having demanded the situation be the way it is. Fact is however cruisers, industrials and shuttles have the highest chance of dying to an empire space gate camp. With industrials leading the way, followed by shuttles and then cruisers. Frigates can and do accelerate fast enough to avoid incoming fire from long range ships, especially if the frigate pilot is paying attention. Any halfway decent battleship can take the fire from ships from a good 2-3 battleships firing from range long enough to warp. And any respectable battleship tank setup can take the fire from many more. I figure it'd take at least 5 to destroy my Typhoon before it can warp. 3 ships or less and I might come back to try and destroy one for trying.
3) Reddari you'll note I said:
Quote:
You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 23:50:00 -
[72]
**hunts down fire extinguisher**
Oooo-kaaaaaay....
Insta-jump bookmarks enable speedy travel, so they won't be removed.
Warp disruptors will disable insta-jump bookmarks at the gate you're camping, so it won't matter that they haven't been removed. (Yeah, i know they aren't properly in yet. Feel free to whine about *that* as much as you want. I'll even join in.)
Warp disruptors are expensive? Damn right. The point is, if you want to be *able* to catch everything coming in, you're going to *have* to catch everything coming in. Including the 10-battleship anti-camping fleet that wants to kill you. Either stand and fight, or lose your expensive disruptors.
For this angle to work, they have to be not just expensive, but hideously expensive so that people won't want to lose them. About the price of a battleship or so.
The only thing that won't, any longer, be possible, if for the camping party to gank everything they want to, but run away as soon as they see a problem; and frankly I don't see how anyone can be defending that option.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.19 00:39:00 -
[73]
Quote:
Now if B is true, then A cannot be true. You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in. So the point is, as stated, many people replying don't know what they're talking about because they:
OMG, you guys are right! I just now pressed F10, and switched to "Pod kills in the last 24 hours," and guess what?
There weren't any!
Not a single pirate has been able to kill a single ship in the last 24 hours. Those poor little pirates.
Oh, and forgive me for not differentiating between alliances that close off their space to all outsiders. As one of my friends says, good, bad, whatever, you're still gonna pod me.
So you guys are right! These insta-bookmarks has made it so nobody is getting killed anymore! Down with the insta-bookmarks!
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.02.19 01:04:00 -
[74]
Thing is about insta jumps though, as while were in the position to catch people it just ****es us off watching ****loads of people just waltz past with loads of goodies in their ships..
On the other hand, were in a system locked down by an assload of people were pretty thankful for those very same bookmarks that we swear about so much. Were such hypocrites in this game
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 01:59:00 -
[75]
Firstly, gates have a radius of 10km, secondly people jump in within 20km of the gate, not 12.5km as some numb nut said earlier. So if you sit in the middle of the gate, you will most probably be 25km away from the person when they jump in.
Getting a cruiser to turn with mwd and cross even 2km gives an indy enough time to warp away, use his/her bm and be in the next system by the time you switch off the mwd=/
People who do not go to 0.0 should not comment on any aspects of 0.0 as you dont know what your talking about, you are only guessing.
If I camp a system Im guaranteed to have a load of bounty hunters within 15-20mins. So camping really isnt plausable and I rarely do it. Flying around trying to grab bistot filled indys is fun, but on the otherhand when some1 flashes by and insta jumps..it kinda sucks.
I did it today to some bounty hunters when I was in a bb, I could feel their anger and frustration 2 jumps away
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.19 02:17:00 -
[76]
Won't the ganksters still be sitting outside of the range of the disruptors?
Convert Stations
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.02.19 02:41:00 -
[77]
Tenacha said:
Quote:
Firstly, gates have a radius of 10km, secondly people jump in within 20km of the gate, not 12.5km as some numb nut said earlier. So if you sit in the middle of the gate, you will most probably be 25km away from the person when they jump in.
Well, I guess I am one of those "numb nuts" as I did make the statement that JiP is within 12.5k of a gate.
Your name calling doesn't change the facts though, Jump In is 12.5 from the exiting gate. My statement and scenario stands.
As far as 0.0 is concerned, I've probably spent more time outside of empire then you have, so I'm not "only guessing".
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 02:45:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Quote:
Now if B is true, then A cannot be true. You will find the majority of successful intercepts are at the destination of a warp in. Not at the ingress of a jump in. So the point is, as stated, many people replying don't know what they're talking about because they:
OMG, you guys are right! I just now pressed F10, and switched to "Pod kills in the last 24 hours," and guess what?
There weren't any!
Not a single pirate has been able to kill a single ship in the last 24 hours. Those poor little pirates.
Oh, and forgive me for not differentiating between alliances that close off their space to all outsiders. As one of my friends says, good, bad, whatever, you're still gonna pod me.
So you guys are right! These insta-bookmarks has made it so nobody is getting killed anymore! Down with the insta-bookmarks!
Your sarcasm underwhelms me. And the absolute terror and horror you attempt to cover with that sarcasm is amusingly tiresome. I have little doubt that the second someone catches you using a one of the deployable warp disruptors, you'll be right here on these forums threatening to quit if they're not removed.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 02:54:00 -
[79]
"3) The fastest one will get into warp (not including frigs and shuttles) is going to be right about the 10 second mark. A fast locking minmatar ship with an f90 can activate two warp scramblers on ANYONE jumping in, in UNDER 10 seconds."
... Except the pilot of a ship equipped for travel will simply look around after jump in (cloaked, can't get a lock on them) notice the blockade, hit their double mwd (ship begins decloaking while already getting up to ludicrous speed) then enable their autopilot (by 'tis time the ship is way out of scrambling range) and that's the last you are going to see them.
(since they jump in out of webbing range, to stop them you'll need to be both very quick and very lucky)
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.02.19 03:26:00 -
[80]
True J0, and those are simply chalked up as the "one's that got away".
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.19 03:47:00 -
[81]
Quote:
I have little doubt that the second someone catches you using a one of the deployable warp disruptors, you'll be right here on these forums threatening to quit if they're not removed.
I would be surprised by that as well. I'm not one for whining for game mechanics to be changed so I don't have to work hard.
I have no illusions about 0.0 space. It may surprise you to learn that I am smart enough to avoid a region when I see a giant red spot on the map when I look for podkills or shipkills in the last hour. When I see those, I usually wait it out.
But I do use insta-jump bookmarks quite frequently, though not in 0.0 space.
Whines from carebear pirates for nerfs to people who have spent a lot of time and energy creating more efficient means of travel simply disgust me.
RE: 20km, 12.5km, etc. etc. etc. *YAWN*
If the damn radius was 45km, you could still patrol it. You simply choose not to. Yes, you might need more than one person. Set one person at one side, another at the other side. That way, you "cast your net" over a wider area.
Yes, I think the intention here was to force more than one person to shut down travel to several regions. Since most of these far-out 0.0 regions bottleneck into other regions, you are asking to change game mechanics to allow 1 person to effectively shut down control of 3 very large regions of space?
If that is not what you are asking, then why can't you learn to adapt on the other side of the JIP? Set up more than one person with overlapping spheres of influence, and then you can fully cover the possible JIP area. This is not rocket science.
So Jash, you underestimate me. I don't plan to quit if someone ganks me at a gate (or I would have quit several times already). If I am overwhelmed by superior tactics and firepower, I am a mature individual and I can pick up the pieces of my broken existence, and move on.
Gate campers, however, have a natural advantage. Warping into a gate (which is the only place I've been attacked while travelling) creates a good deal of lag (loading, especially if there are people waiting for you) for the warpee, and none for the campers. All that loading can disorient you, leaving you vulnerable if only for a small moment.
Bookmarks help to level that playing field. It allows a person to take some kind of action (in this case, making the bookmark in the first place) to counteract the tools used by the gate-campers. Right now, it is the only countermeasure to gate-camping.
Your solution, to simply stop all ships before they hit the gate, bookmarks or not, would give all the benefits to the gate-camper and would give the player absolutely no recourse whatsoever. We'd be entirely at the gate-campers' mercy, which is not what CCP has intended.
The Devs have made it clear that the mobile disruptors can be destroyed and in the future hacked (thus, the defense against being gate-ganked). If you simply decide to abolish that plan, and install these by default at all gates, what would be the countermeasure?
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 07:41:00 -
[82]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 19/02/2004 07:43:25
Quote:
Your solution, to simply stop all ships before they hit the gate, bookmarks or not, would give all the benefits to the gate-camper and would give the player absolutely no recourse whatsoever. We'd be entirely at the gate-campers' mercy, which is not what CCP has intended.
The intention is to force you to work together with someone who knows how to fight - you see a massive red blob on the map, you know it's a pirate blockade. The only things that should go through your mind are that you shouldn't go through, you should find a way around, or you should find someone to kick their asses.
Sitting around all day shooting indies gets ******* boring. The fun part of the game is in smashing the hell out of an enemy fleet sent to stop us- with these damn instajump bookmarks, alliances like the CFS can just choose to completely ignore us, and enough indies will get by that they will still make a profit as long as they dont use local hulls, and the CFSN can go one more day without actually committing to a fight.
So while you use the mechanism that allows the regional alliances to avoid a fight, you sit in local and on the forums claiming pirate corps "only ever blow up indies." That's because you****s won't send anything more, this bookmark system is more cost effective
You can say "all you pirates wanna do is get more easy indy kills," but this POS system is stopping us from getting more fleet battles, as well. No one is sent to move us anymore
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 08:17:00 -
[83]
Ishkur:
1) Warp in was also covered by the same mechanism as jumping in with the Castor patch. Your ship isn't targettable until either you or the autopilot take control. Both of which require a response from your computer. If you attempt to target someone lagging during warp in, you will still receive the old "Interference from xxxx's warp drive..." message.
2) A mechanism that allows a single defenseless vessel to completely elude even 1000 fully prepared people with the intentions of destroying you is NOT levelling a playfield.
3) You claim a vast time and energy investment in creating a bookmark route. Well the 'carebear pirates' and anyone else that setups a blockade has invested the time in training to fly those ships of destruction. Have invested the energy to earn the isk to purchase those ships of destruction. Have invested the time and energy to setup the blockade. Which is a bit more than warping to the stargate and watching the scanner if you don't want to die to the first person that actually shows up ready for a fight. Your 'investment' does not compare. Especially give that bookmarks can be traded and a person's time investment may have been nothing more than opening the trade window.
4) Anyone at the stargate have the advantage naturally. They picked the location of the confrontation. Anyone with the ability to choose the location of confrontation will always have the advantage.
5) The player has many options open when encountering a blockade. You can choose not to go to the blockade. You can choose to negotiate with the people running the blockade and take your chances. You can choose to force your way through the blockade with a force capable of unseating them. You, however, choose to make up nonsense justification of how it's levelling the playing field allowing your unescorted industrial to bypass a prepared blockade solo.
6) You say the only place you've been attacked while travelling is at a gate. WHERE THE FECK ELSE DO YOU EXPECT TO BE ATTACKED, IN THE HEAD AT THE STATION?!?
And I saved this one for last:
Quote:
Since most of these far-out 0.0 regions bottleneck into other regions, you are asking to change game mechanics to allow 1 person to effectively shut down control of 3 very large regions of space?
If a single person can shut down control of 3 very large regions, you have ABSOLUTELY no reason being there. You do not have what it takes to belong there. Jesus....I know several people that are very good at killing other people. Almost scary good. But none of them are stupid enough to think they can maintain a blockade by themselves for anything beyond a couple encounters.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 08:30:00 -
[84]
Hmm, as far as I remember insta bookmarks only work at half the gatecamping situations. There is still JIP and gate, there is no way you can use bookmarks to shorten the time at the JIP.
How will warp inhibitors worke there?
As pirates are so fond of stating when they are using a tactics that the peacenick players find abusive we get the "adapt" line, well insta jump bookmarks have not been labeled an exploit, it has actually passed the devs scrutny and come out the other side with flying colours.
To give pirates a way to combat the bookmarks the devs have created deployable warp inhibitors.
Now, if you wish to block a gate you will need that inhibitor in place to stop the insta jump bookmark, the inhibitor is however not designed to be foolproof (insert own jest about pirate fools) and it is acording to the devs going to be suficiently expensive to warant the campers to want to stay and fight a camp breaking force rather than like now simply log off and wait for the defenders to get boored and go away.
All in all I think its a good solution, its only sad it strengthens the 0.0 alliances meens to protect their space all that much more but then again as the inhibitor is expensive they will have to put in the hours to protect it too :)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 08:36:00 -
[85]
Quote:
...
As pirates are so fond of stating when they are using a tactics that the peacenick players find abusive we get the "adapt" line, well insta jump bookmarks have not been labeled an exploit, it has actually passed the devs scrutny and come out the other side with flying colours.
...
I'd hardly call the developers stating flat out that the ability to warp directly to the stargate never being intended, the chaos patch that disabled the ability to use such bookmarks, the huge whinefest that caused the reprieve and the alternative solution (the warp disruptor fields which were supposed to be implemented a few days after Castor) passing "the devs scrutiny and come out the other side with flying colors".
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 09:04:00 -
[86]
Jash, that is true, Instajump bookmarks is aparently somthing that has suprised the devs, why they were suprised I do not know.
Aparently insta dock bookmarks were frequently used in beta testing as well as insta jump ones.
Personally I belive they intentionally left them in so that the dedicated playes can set up trade routes. Im sure you use insta jump and dock bookmarks too, maby not to run blockades but as a meens to cut down on travel times wich is the prime reason for people to use them.
The fact that they help against a camp is a damn good bonus.
However as "unintentional" the bookmarks were the devs have now decided they are a natural part of the game and have created countermeasures to deal with them, they cant become much more legitamized than when the devs create countermeasures for them rather than change the code.
Personally I think the countermeasures is more of a way to bring down the advantage of the camper however, without insta jump bookmarks the camper has a far too easy life, with insta jump bookmarks you cant catch the big fish so they added the inhibitors to allow the camper to get a shot at the big fish and at the same time (and this is important) change the mechanics to force campers to stay and fight.
At the moment, what can you do against campers?
Nothing!
the campers hold all the perks and if you summon a large enough force to be able to fight the campers they will simply run (perfectly natural for pirates to do in the face of a large force, pirates are no heroes), with the inhibitors pirates will have to choose, have a shot at the big fish and having to choose to abandon an expensive pice of eq if you run OR live with the fact that people swish by with their insta jump bookmarks.
As 99.9% of all pirates claim to play for the thril of battle and already fight there will be little or no change apart from the fact that they will get their hands on more jucy targets.
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Wren
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Posted - 2004.02.19 09:18:00 -
[87]
Quote:
PvP for who? The people who don't want to?
As soon as you jump from 1.0 space and head out to .5 or below, you should consider the fact that you are now looking for PvP.
--------------------------------------------------
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2004.02.19 14:11:00 -
[88]
Well after reading the answers on most of you guys, i say some of you have understood what i intended to say.
You see i dont want insta jumps to go away, because i want to sit at a gate and gank, no fun in that, but when you see enemies warping right past you in an indy or fighting ships just ignoring to fight because they dont got the stomach for it, well, its frustrating, as Wren so nicely put it in 0.0 space your are looking for a fight or the fight will come to you.
What deployable warp disruptors will do i dont know, since i dont have any, Yet but im working at it.
Fleet battles are so much more fun, than gate ganking, which never have been what Oracle is about.
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.19 15:17:00 -
[89]
Jash:
This is very simple actually. Just move your gate-ganking operation from the warp-in point to the jump-in point on the other side of the gate. You will need at least 2, maybe 3 people to shut down an entire region of space, now, as the JIP is wide enough that you'll need several people warp scrambling. Or, you can use the new deployable scramblers, at either side of the gate.
This is not hard, this is not difficult. You are asking for a nerf that has far wider consequences than 0.0 blockade gates, to justify your position that a pirate blockading 3 regions of space shouldn't have to adapt a little.
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Heff
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:03:00 -
[90]
You wnat to take away insta-jump? Then take away gate-ganking. Increase sentry range so PKs can't sit at 70km and waste you right in front of the guns.
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Jon Ogden
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:08:00 -
[91]
Quote:
Umm with the new gates it almost impossible to close down a region now. If someone puts together enough ships to stop traffic at a gate than they should reap the reward. If you dont like it, get some ships together and go chase them away, pay someone to do it, or fly around the blockade. Plenty of options, start thinking and stop *****ing. Or just end yourself.
Who says closing down a region should be easy? Space is is big place. I don't think a few well placed ships should be able to close down an entire region. Sure, they can make it dificult to get around, and make pilots use the long route instead of the short route, but closing down a region shouldn't be easy, maybe not even possible.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:11:00 -
[92]
Quote:
As soon as you jump from 1.0 space and head out to .5 or below, you should consider the fact that you are now looking for PvP.
Yes, PvP in the sense that I'm looking to do my best outwitting someone avoiding a fight I do not seek. Us not being given enough tools other than the scanner and instajump exploit to do this is a concern.
High slot modules for trade ships to boost defenses and/or shed targetlocks would be a nice addition.
I don't use them myself but I wouldn't like for them to be removed without modules first being introduced making avoiding pirates a possibility, not a certainty but a real enough possibility. Removing them without providing other means would just help feed fat pirates which I see no good reason for.
Convert Stations
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test1234
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:54:00 -
[93]
Edited by: test1234 on 19/02/2004 22:01:36
Hematic, Ishkur, Fester, good posts.
Everyone else, STFU. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:19:00 -
[94]
Get in the mincer 2nd grade clone!
Convert Stations
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:45:00 -
[95]
Quote:
... Except the pilot of a ship equipped for travel will simply look around after jump in (cloaked, can't get a lock on them) notice the blockade, hit their double mwd (ship begins decloaking while already getting up to ludicrous speed) then enable their autopilot (by 'tis time the ship is way out of scrambling range) and that's the last you are going to see them.
You're probably right that this type of setup has better then normal odds. However, what's this pilot going to accomplish with half his shields and cap missing from mounting dual MWDS?
For me the whole idea of running a blockade is to tap resources on the other side of it. Namely tougher NPCs and possibly higher end ores.
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:38:00 -
[96]
Quote:
... Except the pilot of a ship equipped for travel will simply look around after jump in (cloaked, can't get a lock on them) notice the blockade, hit their double mwd (ship begins decloaking while already getting up to ludicrous speed) then enable their autopilot (by 'tis time the ship is way out of scrambling range) and that's the last you are going to see them.
I know I'm a noob, but I cannot equip double MWDs on my Iteron III. Maybe I have the wrong equipment installed. In fact, I can't even install ONE 10mn MWD on an Iteron III. I can install 1mn, but they aren't as effective as 10mn afterburners.
So what are you on about?
Is it even possible to equip 2 10mn MWDs on an industrial?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.20 00:10:00 -
[97]
"I know I'm a noob, but I cannot equip double MWDs on my Iteron III. Maybe I have the wrong equipment installed. In fact, I can't even install ONE 10mn MWD on an Iteron III. I can install 1mn, but they aren't as effective as 10mn afterburners.
So what are you on about?"
It was in response to the original comment how "A fast locking minmatar ship with an f90 can activate two warp scramblers on ANYONE jumping in, in UNDER 10 seconds."
Note emphasis on "anyone", not mine.
So simply pointed out that no, not ANYONE can be warp-scrambled in UNDER 10 seconds. In fact, that "anyone" is pretty much limited to the industrial ships... which are not supposed to be able to break through blockade on their own according to the devs, anyway.
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Jaris Starforge
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Posted - 2004.02.20 02:43:00 -
[98]
I think it best to point out that jumpdrives wil be cooming sometime so blockades wont be as good as before not 100% sure how they work but i read something in the manual about jumping without using gates.
also i feel the best solution to insta jumping are warp disruptors either deploy one at one gate or at both then police each disrupted gate with 3 peoples. and those worried about the cost of these warp diruptors remember they will eventually be on market and the price will go down just like the miner 2 laseres tho it may take a while
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.20 03:50:00 -
[99]
Quote:
Quote:
... Except the pilot of a ship equipped for travel will simply look around after jump in (cloaked, can't get a lock on them) notice the blockade, hit their double mwd (ship begins decloaking while already getting up to ludicrous speed) then enable their autopilot (by 'tis time the ship is way out of scrambling range) and that's the last you are going to see them.
I know I'm a noob, but I cannot equip double MWDs on my Iteron III. Maybe I have the wrong equipment installed. In fact, I can't even install ONE 10mn MWD on an Iteron III. I can install 1mn, but they aren't as effective as 10mn afterburners.
So what are you on about?
Is it even possible to equip 2 10mn MWDs on an industrial?
Your Iteron is immaterial. Unescorted industrials are supposed to die, as stated by Hellmar.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.20 04:56:00 -
[100]
So you're arguing two separate things now. You want bookmarks and MWDs removed?
Frankly, a ship with good MWD setups can break many blockades (at least the ones I've had the (mis)fortune of meeting). In a frigate, I can gate in about 1.5 seconds. Even in my cruiser, I can reach a top speed of well over 1000m/s and that's not even me really trying.
Almost certainly I'll get through the gate before you can finish me off, and since you initiated aggression, I'll be well on my way and you'll never catch me. :P
So attempting to gank me on either side of the gate, if I have 2 MWDs installed, will result in you failing.
On the first side, because I can gate before you can even lock me, and on the other side because I can get out of your range before you can lock me.
So what's the problem?
I seriously cannot understand why you want to nerf the use of bookmarks in perfectly secure space to speed up travel times, just because you're too obstinate to just set up your operation on the other side of the gate, at the JIP.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't understand. And I don't want my use of bookmarks (which is primarily to speed travel, not to avoid pirates) to be nerfed just cause a few ships are slipping through these blockades.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:37:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 20/02/2004 05:42:32
It has been mentioned several times but seems to keep getting ignored.
There are TWO possibilities for for ganking someone at a gate. On their way out of the system that allows them to whip by you with a good bookmark and on the way IN a system in which bookmarks help not at all. I have been caught like this. m0o pushed me like hounds to the hunter and the hunter got me a few jumps down the road. Unless you are in a shuttle or a frigate the attacker has a good shot at you without being overloaded with targetting enhancers. If you are in an indy forget it...you are most likely very dead from even a lone battleship.
It also is not as if 100% of all people have instajump marks. They are a major pain to make. While travelling in 0.0 I by no means see everyone zipping about with instajumps. I'd be surprised if it was even 25% of the people I see out there moving to a given gate.
Seems to me pirates have plenty of opportunity to get their quarry without all that much trouble on their part. So a few ships get by...good for them. There SHOULD be SOME way for people to get through and never be a 100% gate lockdown.
Finally, before those so opposed to instajump bookmarks I suggest you hop in, say, a Badger-II with 3 expanders on and 2 or 3 afterburners and drive 60 jumps in it. Even in 1.0 space. If you find that remotely tolerable you are very strange.
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:38:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 20/02/2004 05:40:46
EDIT: **duplicate post deleted**
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:39:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Mon Palae on 20/02/2004 05:41:02
EDIT: **duplicate post deleted**
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:41:00 -
[104]
Quote:
... So a few ships get by...good for them. There SHOULD be SOME way for people to get through and never be a 100% gate lockdown....
There is. Fight off the campers, or equip the ship for enough speed/tanking ability, to run the gauntlet. What there should NOT be, is a way to dodge the gauntlet altogether.
Insta-jump bookmarks remain, for the sake of speed. Warp disruptors should guarantee they cannot be used for dodging blockades.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:48:00 -
[105]
Quote:
There is. Fight off the campers, or equip the ship for enough speed/tanking ability, to run the gauntlet. What there should NOT be, is a way to dodge the gauntlet altogether.
Somewhere around here people are griping that someone got their frigate (or something) to go 120 km/s. Apparently that is no fair to pirates either as it is too fast for them to get a shot in. Of course pirates getting sub-one second lock times on frigates and pods is just good play and completely fair.
Want to make it so people cannot avoid a gauntlet altogether? Camp both sides of a gate. If it is considered reasonable that a miner must have a fleet with him to fend off pirates then the pirates should need a fleet to close a gate. If two or three pirates want to camp a gate fine but then I think it is reasonable to expect some people will escape them.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:29:00 -
[106]
Like has already been said before:
In order to counter insta jump bookmarks deployable warp inhibitors have been introduced to the game.
END
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2004.02.20 10:11:00 -
[107]
The forum mods should lock these moaning threads that keep getting repeated every damn week...
Every damn week it's "Insta jump bookmarks should be taken out" followed by "Insta jump bookmarks are legit and arent going to go" followed by insults both ways which just reiterate that one group wants the bookmarks gone, another group informing the previous group that the GM's and TomB say the bookmarks are ok.
The thread should be locked and a link to a FAQ should be provided to something like I've put below...
Quote:
Q. Why havent the devs removed instajump bookmarks? It spoils the pirates blockades! Why not put in the warp scramblers by default?
A. Because the majority of the population realised that it would increase journey times across the galaxy. Deployable Warp Scramblers are being introduced into the game to allow pirates to blockade the gates they want to camp. Instajump bookmarks will not get past these. Instajumps bookmarks will not be removed because of this.
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
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