Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like

*frog clearing throat* "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like

*frog clearing throat* "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"

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Originally by: twit brent

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Mostly used by people who dont want to loose their ship

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Originally by: twit brent

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Speed tanks are prety BS imo. Mostly used by people who dont want to loose their ship which means I just cant get a decent fight anymore.

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Originally by: Hurricane

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Stop complaining about dual mwd ravens and 8 heat sink geddons people, you can just go fly them. And they have no health .

I think speed tanks are fine, your reasoning though is not.

And Caldari don't get more stats, Achura gets the least charisma is what you're thinking of.

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Originally by: Hurricane

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Stop complaining about dual mwd ravens and 8 heat sink geddons people, you can just go fly them. And they have no health .

I think speed tanks are fine, your reasoning though is not.

And Caldari don't get more stats, Achura gets the least charisma is what you're thinking of.

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Originally by: twit brent

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Speed tanks are prety BS imo. Mostly used by people who dont want to loose their ship which means I just cant get a decent fight anymore.

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Originally by: Hurricane

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Stop complaining about dual mwd ravens and 8 heat sink geddons people, you can just go fly them. And they have no health .

I think speed tanks are fine, your reasoning though is not.

And Caldari don't get more stats, Achura gets the least charisma is what you're thinking of.

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Originally by: assassinator mkII

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Originally by: Hurricane

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Stop complaining about dual mwd ravens and 8 heat sink geddons people, you can just go fly them. And they have no health .

I think speed tanks are fine, your reasoning though is not.

And Caldari don't get more stats, Achura gets the least charisma is what you're thinking of.

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like i was saying its any ship. and i think you need to go look again about the stats.

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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speed tanks are fine... and of all the fotm setups, they are the easiest to counter: WEBs

The only people that complain about speed tanks are those that try to take them on 1 on 1... 1 on 1 is a speed tanks specialty, so get in a gang, put a web or two on the speed tanked ship and pop him in seconds... its not like they have a real tank.

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Originally by: Hayward Cyprus

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Now either you mean a minni recon, faction gear or you need to get a clue ....

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Edited by: Elmicker on 02/10/2007 22:28:42
The problem is most counters simply force them to run.

In thise case, they have achieved their objective - they have forced you to respond with specialised setups and disrupt your normal operations. But, you have failed to achieve your objective, which was to remove the threat entirely by killing the ship.

Originally by: Hayward Cyprus

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Now either you mean a minni recon, faction gear or you need to get a clue ....

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Or heat.

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Originally by: assassinator mkII

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its a game of rock paper sisors.

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Originally by: assassinator mkII

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like i was saying its any ship. and i think you need to go look again about the stats.

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Originally by: Acoco Osiris

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Um... WTF Hurricane? Both of these ships were done away with YEARS AGO! You can only use 1 MWD at a time, and stacking nerfs make more than 3 heat sinks useless.

Stop posting ship setups which were dead years ago.

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Originally by: Iota Belisarius

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Originally by: twit brent

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Mostly used by people who dont want to loose their ship

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Wow imagine that, people who don't want to lose their ship. What a concept.

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Originally by: Hayward Cyprus

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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speed tanks are fine... and of all the fotm setups, they are the easiest to counter: WEBs

The only people that complain about speed tanks are those that try to take them on 1 on 1... 1 on 1 is a speed tanks specialty, so get in a gang, put a web or two on the speed tanked ship and pop him in seconds... its not like they have a real tank.

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Not saying anything about speedtanks here, but sry saying they have a counter and that's webs is like ... omg have you ever used the show info button on a web? Yes it says range 10km. Now either you mean a minni recon, faction gear or you need to get a clue ....

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Originally by: assassinator mkII

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whenever i go look at the foroms its almost a gaurente that i will read about someone complainig about speed tanks. for starters if they are sooo good and overpowered then why dont you fly one??? its not like most mmos where you cant use other things. besides when you do hit them they die they have no health. this kinda complaing goes for every ship out there... just go fly one. if you want something to compain about it should be how caldari has higher stats then everyone else. ehh i think i am leaving something out. i am just grumpy

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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Originally by: Hayward Cyprus

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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speed tanks are fine... and of all the fotm setups, they are the easiest to counter: WEBs

The only people that complain about speed tanks are those that try to take them on 1 on 1... 1 on 1 is a speed tanks specialty, so get in a gang, put a web or two on the speed tanked ship and pop him in seconds... its not like they have a real tank.

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Not saying anything about speedtanks here, but sry saying they have a counter and that's webs is like ... omg have you ever used the show info button on a web? Yes it says range 10km. Now either you mean a minni recon, faction gear or you need to get a clue ....

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Maybe you need a clue... why not combine your web with a damp or 2 and force them into web range... or better yet... make friends, get in a gang and hit him with webs, damps, tracking disruptors, neuts, whatever really... and watch him pop.

there are so many counters to nano ships... so you're either whining or dumb. You make the distinction, but just cause you can't stop a nano ship 1 on 1 doesn't make them overpowered

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Quote:

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Because not all races ships can do 'speed tanks'.

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Quote:

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Speed is too powerful at the moment - none of the speed boosting stuff suffers any form of stacking, so you can use lowslots, rigs, boosters, snake implants, rogue hardwires, and midslots (MWD), gang boosts, and of course skills to increase your speed

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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Quote:

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Because not all races ships can do 'speed tanks'.

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not all ships can spam missiles, use drones, fit ewar, shield tank, armor tank... its called a niche.

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Speed is too powerful at the moment - none of the speed boosting stuff suffers any form of stacking, so you can use lowslots, rigs, boosters, snake implants, rogue hardwires, and midslots (MWD), gang boosts, and of course skills to increase your speed

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Nanos, Istabs, Polycarbons, Overdrives all stack.
MWD has huge cap penalty.
Filling your lows leaves you with no tank.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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No, I'm not bothered by MWDs boosting speed, nor overdrives, nor mass reductions. It's just the fact that you can do all these things, all at once, and end up taking things to ludicrous extremes.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Yeah, it does actually. Any ship in the game will die if you bring 'more numbers of similar class ships'. The fact that you _have_ to for a 'speed fit' to have a chance of catching it, means they're overpowered. The fact that your _only_ option is force them to disengage, and if you can't you die, means they're overpowered.

And lets not even start on how much better than the alternatives polycarbon rigs are.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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I have tested trying to 'pin' a nano-ishtar, using the two _specific_ tools for the job - a rapier, and a flycatcher. And you know what? We couldn't catch him even double webbed and bubbled, he still made it to the gate.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Because not all races ships can do 'speed tanks'.

And a counter argument to 'something is overpowered' is not:
a) do it yourself, but better
or
b) fly a specific countermeasure, and bring more people.

No, webs aren't a countermeasure - a short range (and 10km is short range) weapon, when the opponent _by definition_ is faster, is just not going to work.

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Quote:

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Speed is too powerful at the moment - none of the speed boosting stuff suffers any form of stacking, so you can use lowslots, rigs, boosters, snake implants, rogue hardwires, and midslots (MWD),

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Quote:

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See the problem? I'll make it nice and easy. Base velocity on a crow, is 425m/sec. With a combination of the above, it's possible to apply a 33x increase in velocity. Or a 45x multiplier if you add in a max skilled gang assist ship.

This is, of course, before you start overheating, or adding faction or deadspace gear. Simply hitting the overload button puts that to a 66x multiplier (albeit only for a few cycles).

Sorry, being able to boost your speed by 66x without even straying into the realm of 'faction fit'. I think if any other stat in game were possibly to get that kind of boost, then people would be screaming for a nerf there too, don't you?

I like going fast, by all means, but between the stacking bonuses of various modules and rigs and skills, speed has become silly.

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Quote:

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OK, I'll admit the 'pirate set' implants are 'faction', and they represent about a 50% overall speed boost. But at the same time, they're harder to lose than fittings on your ship - the fitting die when the ship does, the pod dies if you're in a bubble or are slow.

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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No, I'm not bothered by MWDs boosting speed, nor overdrives, nor mass reductions. It's just the fact that you can do all these things, all at once, and end up taking things to ludicrous extremes.

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And let's not forget gang bonuses, snake sets, rogue/officer implants and boosters, too .

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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The nano-ship spent hundreds of millions on his setup and you cant be arsed to pay 150m for a faction web that overheats to 20km?

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Quote:

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Or a 45x multiplier if you add in a max skilled gang assist ship.

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Quote:

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I like going fast, by all means, but between the stacking bonuses of various modules and rigs and skills, speed has become silly.

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Quote:

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OK, I'll admit the 'pirate set' implants are 'faction', and they represent about a 50% overall speed boost. But at the same time, they're harder to lose than fittings on your ship - the fitting die when the ship does, the pod dies if you're in a bubble or are slow.

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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People sayign they cannot acoutner nanoships a re
a) lying
b) very bad pvpers

The simplest solution is a 2 Drone speed mod with 5 warrior II (that almsot any ship can carry). Done. You have drones at 11km/s. Anythign that goes faster than that will be unable to keep under scramble range of you anyway.. so not a threat.

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Originally by: Hayward Cyprus

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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speed tanks are fine... and of all the fotm setups, they are the easiest to counter: WEBs

The only people that complain about speed tanks are those that try to take them on 1 on 1... 1 on 1 is a speed tanks specialty, so get in a gang, put a web or two on the speed tanked ship and pop him in seconds... its not like they have a real tank.

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Not saying anything about speedtanks here, but sry saying they have a counter and that's webs is like ... omg have you ever used the show info button on a web? Yes it says range 10km. Now either you mean a minni recon, faction gear or you need to get a clue ....

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Originally by: twit brent

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Speed tanks are prety BS imo. Mostly used by people who dont want to loose their ship which means I just cant get a decent fight anymore.

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Originally by: Gestal Dalamascar

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ohh yea and you realy wanna kill them just fit for them. its kinda like your used to fighting fock sytle. and speed tanks are paper. so fight sisors style.

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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I should have stressed the you as in you personally. Nano ships are soloable, I've done it and many others have as well. I've used damps and a web to bait them in closer and then torn them a new a$$ hole.

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Originally by: Lady Valory

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7 millions points in missiles
cerberus with hac 5 hm2

couldnt hit a speed tanked whatever the hell it was

the only thing i didnt have was precision t2 loaded--and u know what--i dont give a crap

ill still play eve but just avoid the speed tanked crap in the hopes that they balance it

i hear all the talk about GET A HUGGIN

OK fine, so i should just retrain every character i have to huggin...

I already gave up on amarr with the first round of speed crap came out, and now after retraining for max missile skills I end up with the same speed crap owning everything...

blah

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Originally by: Akat

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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I should have stressed the you as in you personally. Nano ships are soloable, I've done it and many others have as well. I've used damps and a web to bait them in closer and then torn them a new a$$ hole.

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You cannot seriously expect any competent pilot to willingly take their paper thin ship within 10km.

Sure, you'll catch idiots this way, but a pilot not interested in dying (the vast majority of speed fit ships) will just leave. He'll just back off if he can't target or sees his cap drop too far. Even if he does and he's paying any sort of attention, one web won't stop him from burning away.

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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what change in the last month? anything?

I'm just wondering why speed was fine last month, but now its a plague upon EVE.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Quote:

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See the problem? I'll make it nice and easy. Base velocity on a crow, is 425m/sec. With a combination of the above, it's possible to apply a 33x increase in velocity. Or a 45x multiplier if you add in a max skilled gang assist ship.

This is, of course, before you start overheating, or adding faction or deadspace gear. Simply hitting the overload button puts that to a 66x multiplier (albeit only for a few cycles).

Sorry, being able to boost your speed by 66x without even straying into the realm of 'faction fit'. I think if any other stat in game were possibly to get that kind of boost, then people would be screaming for a nerf there too, don't you?

I like going fast, by all means, but between the stacking bonuses of various modules and rigs and skills, speed has become silly.

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WTB crow that goes 14km/s with no faction mods or snakes. Exaggerate much?

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Kill a single speed-tank, be it a cetpor or a vagabonb, or force it to warp way with a single battleship (fit it however you want), without faction mods, and you'll have a point.

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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dunno, but someone did mention a domination web on a huggin with a information warfare gang link can go to about 80km

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Sure, a rare faction mod on a very specialised ship and with another specialised ship to boost him... What a valid example of counter that is...

Do you have any other crappy argument in stock?

Kill a single speed-tank, be it a cetpor or a vagabonb, or force it to warp way with a single battleship (fit it however you want), without faction mods, and you'll have a point.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Quote:

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See the problem? I'll make it nice and easy. Base velocity on a crow, is 425m/sec. With a combination of the above, it's possible to apply a 33x increase in velocity. Or a 45x multiplier if you add in a max skilled gang assist ship.

This is, of course, before you start overheating, or adding faction or deadspace gear. Simply hitting the overload button puts that to a 66x multiplier (albeit only for a few cycles).

Sorry, being able to boost your speed by 66x without even straying into the realm of 'faction fit'. I think if any other stat in game were possibly to get that kind of boost, then people would be screaming for a nerf there too, don't you?

I like going fast, by all means, but between the stacking bonuses of various modules and rigs and skills, speed has become silly.

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WTB crow that goes 14km/s with no faction mods or snakes. Exaggerate much?

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I think I included the snakes in that fit.

But ok.

Crow with 3x OD, MWD II, 2x polycarbon, skills at 5: 8588m/sec = 20x increase in velocity over base.

Overheat MWD = 30x velocity boost.

+ gang assist = 40x velocity boost.

In your opinion, what level of multiplier would be 'sensible'?

And yes, if you spend a large amount of isks on a _specific counter_ (assuming of course, availability and ability to fly said ship) then you can counter this.

But only if you specifically fit to counter, which is why it's a problem. Or are you telling me you see people fitting 40km webs to their battleships all the time?

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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what change in the last month? anything?

I'm just wondering why speed was fine last month, but now its a plague upon EVE.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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dunno, but someone did mention a domination web on a huggin with a information warfare gang link can go to about 80km

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Sure, a rare faction mod on a very specialised ship and with another specialised ship to boost him... What a valid example of counter that is...

Do you have any other crappy argument in stock?

Kill a single speed-tank, be it a cetpor or a vagabonb, or force it to warp way with a single battleship (fit it however you want), without faction mods, and you'll have a point.

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Why should you be able to? The vaga and the inty is faction fitted.

A heavy t2 neut will force any nano-ship without a 28km disruptor to warp or die. And even with a 28km scram its pretty iffy.

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Not all of them are faction-fitted.

And while an heavy neut work, it would be a bloody shame if the balance of the game rested on a single module. Escpecially when said module doesn't fit in a BS/cruiser.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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*SNIP*

Crow with 3x OD, MWD II, 2x polycarbon, skills at 5: 8588m/sec = 20x increase in velocity over base.

Overheat MWD = 30x velocity boost.

+ gang assist = 40x velocity boost.

In your opinion, what level of multiplier would be 'sensible'?

And yes, if you spend a large amount of isks on a _specific counter_ (assuming of course, availability and ability to fly said ship) then you can counter this.

But only if you specifically fit to counter, which is why it's a problem. Or are you telling me you see people fitting 40km webs to their battleships all the time?

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Nice to see you've never flown a crow, or even any inty for that matter.

That setup isnt remotely cap stable. Have fun capping out in 30 seconds.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/10/2007 09:31:44

Originally by: Shadowsword

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Not all of them are faction-fitted.

And while an heavy neut work, it would be a bloody shame if the balance of the game rested on a single module. Escpecially when said module doesn't fit in a BS/cruiser.

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Heavy neuts are just one of the solutions.

D180mm AC II + Barrage M goes both ways (I lasers also have decent ranges, too)
Missiles could still chase one off (provided it's not a Crow).

etc, etc...

Edit: I forgot to mention EWAR - it works, too

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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*SNIP*

Crow with 3x OD, MWD II, 2x polycarbon, skills at 5: 8588m/sec = 20x increase in velocity over base.

Overheat MWD = 30x velocity boost.

+ gang assist = 40x velocity boost.

In your opinion, what level of multiplier would be 'sensible'?

And yes, if you spend a large amount of isks on a _specific counter_ (assuming of course, availability and ability to fly said ship) then you can counter this.

But only if you specifically fit to counter, which is why it's a problem. Or are you telling me you see people fitting 40km webs to their battleships all the time?

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Nice to see you've never flown a crow, or even any inty for that matter.

That setup isnt remotely cap stable. Have fun capping out in 30 seconds.

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Actually, that fit is cap stable. MWD II uses 4 cap/sec with skills at 4, and 3.8 cap/sec at 5.

The Crow's base max cap regen is 4, when you have a MWD fitted.

Which would be sustainable.

OK, so it's missing some midslots, and that's therefore not a realistic combat fit. But arguing about what a realistic combat fit isn't the point of this thread.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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*SNIP*

Crow with 3x OD, MWD II, 2x polycarbon, skills at 5: 8588m/sec = 20x increase in velocity over base.

Overheat MWD = 30x velocity boost.

+ gang assist = 40x velocity boost.

In your opinion, what level of multiplier would be 'sensible'?

And yes, if you spend a large amount of isks on a _specific counter_ (assuming of course, availability and ability to fly said ship) then you can counter this.

But only if you specifically fit to counter, which is why it's a problem. Or are you telling me you see people fitting 40km webs to their battleships all the time?

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Nice to see you've never flown a crow, or even any inty for that matter.

That setup isnt remotely cap stable. Have fun capping out in 30 seconds.

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Actually, that fit is cap stable. MWD II uses 4 cap/sec with skills at 4, and 3.8 cap/sec at 5.

The Crow's base max cap regen is 4, when you have a MWD fitted.

Which would be sustainable.

OK, so it's missing some midslots, and that's therefore not a realistic combat fit. But arguing about what a realistic combat fit isn't the point of this thread.

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 03/10/2007 10:37:48


Did you add into your calculation that fitting an MWD straight off the bat significantly reduces your cap regen? Further more on that fit you have a 20km scram.

Yes, there are crows that go 10km/s. I know, I've seen them. Hell, I've been in a gang with one.

Said crows are also so easy to escape from it's ridiculous.

USE THEIR MOMENTUM AGAINST THEM.

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Originally by: MITSUK0

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 03/10/2007 10:37:48


Did you add into your calculation that fitting an MWD straight off the bat significantly reduces your cap regen? Further more on that fit you have a 20km scram.

Yes, there are crows that go 10km/s. I know, I've seen them. Hell, I've been in a gang with one.

Said crows are also so easy to escape from it's ridiculous.

USE THEIR MOMENTUM AGAINST THEM.

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God forbid people have to do anything other than click approach and turn everything on

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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3x std II
MWD II, 24km, cap charger II
2x CPR, OD II

2x Polycarbon

Cap stable. 15x speed boost before you add in implants, gang assists.

3x standard II
MWD II, 24km injector
2x overdrives, 1x PDS II

2x polycarbons

18x speed boost, sustainable as long as the charges last.

OK. So, now you've shot down my comparisons, because they're 'not real', how do those two above square up?

Incidentally, if you also add a set of snakes + rogues, you get and 26x and 30.5x.

So that aside, would you kindly tell me what you think would happen if it were possible to get a 15x multiplier on damage output, and push it up to 30 with a bit of effort?

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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So that aside, would you kindly tell me what you think would happen if it were possible to get a 15x multiplier on damage output, and push it up to 30 with a bit of effort?

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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3x std II
MWD II, 24km, cap charger II
2x CPR, OD II

2x Polycarbon

Cap stable. 15x speed boost before you add in implants, gang assists.

3x standard II
MWD II, 24km injector
2x overdrives, 1x PDS II

2x polycarbons

18x speed boost, sustainable as long as the charges last.

OK. So, now you've shot down my comparisons, because they're 'not real', how do those two above square up?

Incidentally, if you also add a set of snakes + rogues, you get and 26x and 30.5x.

So that aside, would you kindly tell me what you think would happen if it were possible to get a 15x multiplier on damage output, and push it up to 30 with a bit of effort?

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Originally by: Director Stoned

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it's just insane how ships can fly fast and not be tackled. i'm not going to train up speed becuase it's wrong to fight that way, it's not only wrong it's not honorable.

A honorable pilot would not speed tank his ship, sure you can have a little extra speed with a MWD or some implants but once you start relying on speed as your tank you become less honorable then your opponent. not only that but speed tanking everything just makes this game more boring then it already is. I don't like being ganked by yet another vaga, seems like that's all people fly these day. at least if CCP is going to let everyone speed tank all the god darned time then they should level the playing field and give other races speed ships. i'd like to see this because then few vaga would be out there... but all that is besides the main point that THERE IS NO HONOR IN SPEED TANKING. this is a game not RL so please balance this and make it more fair to those of us who would prefer not to fly a vaga all day long

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Originally by: Director Stoned

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..stuff..

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Originally by: mallina

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Speed tank-setups just need a counter other than a Huginn and they'd be fine. The upcoming Graviton beam is the answer, IMO

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Originally by: mallina

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Speed tank-setups just need a counter other than a Huginn and they'd be fine. The upcoming Graviton beam is the answer, IMO

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Originally by: Wrayeth

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Originally by: Kagura Nikon

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People sayign they cannot acoutner nanoships a re
a) lying
b) very bad pvpers

The simplest solution is a 2 Drone speed mod with 5 warrior II (that almsot any ship can carry). Done. You have drones at 11km/s. Anythign that goes faster than that will be unable to keep under scramble range of you anyway.. so not a threat.

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My apologies, but this could not be more wrong. Five warrior II's will do exactly jack all to a vagabond or ishtar (or insert any other ship of cruiser size or larger that can effectively nano) with two large extenders.

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Originally by: Director Stoned

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it's just insane how ships can fly fast and not be tackled. i'm not going to train up speed becuase it's wrong to fight that way, it's not only wrong it's not honorable.

A honorable pilot would not speed tank his ship, sure you can have a little extra speed with a MWD or some implants but once you start relying on speed as your tank you become less honorable then your opponent. not only that but speed tanking everything just makes this game more boring then it already is. I don't like being ganked by yet another vaga, seems like that's all people fly these day. at least if CCP is going to let everyone speed tank all the god darned time then they should level the playing field and give other races speed ships. i'd like to see this because then few vaga would be out there... but all that is besides the main point that THERE IS NO HONOR IN SPEED TANKING. this is a game not RL so please balance this and make it more fair to those of us who would prefer not to fly a vaga all day long

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Originally by: Tefkros

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Edited by: Tefkros on 03/10/2007 11:29:29


Let me spell it out for you
It¦s an INTERCEPTOR! Going fast is what it should be doing. Try hitting it with a heavy neut. Or chase it with another inty. Or...

Vagabond? It¦s role is to hit and run. Read the description. Otherwise we¦d all use a Hurricane.

Ishtar? It¦s a HAC. It¦s ability to escape is the primary reason to use it over a myrmi. Someone decided to nano it and it works. Perfect.


Nano BC/BS? Not anymore without pimping it to obscene levels.

I don¦t believe the stuff I¦m reading here. Some of you need to learn to stay calm when a Vagabond appears instead of panicking, trembling, cursing in channels about the ¦nanofag¦ etc, and see what you can do about it. And as much as you want to deny it, it¦s not the speed that kills you, it¦s your paranoia.
Even a ratting Cyclone, with a pilot so noobish that didn¦t even know he can dock with rat aggro, managed to chase my uberwtfbbq Vagabond away, just with his guns and missiles. 5 times I had to go to 70km and he didn¦t know he can warp away cause of the...rat aggro. These are the UBER SKILLZ you need to survive such encounters.

So what do you want? You want me and my Vagabond not being able to escape after pis***g off a 10-man local that is shouting at me from their POS "We have all gates camped, try to run and you are a dead man". They indeed had the gates camped...with Drakes.
Seriously, you whiners are pathetic.

Try flying a nanoship, see how much 3D perception, concentration and patience you need, and then come whine again.

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Originally by: Director Stoned

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it's just insane how ships can fly fast and not be tackled. i'm not going to train up speed becuase it's wrong to fight that way, it's not only wrong it's not honorable.

A honorable pilot would not speed tank his ship, etc etc etc

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Originally by: Dr Mengel

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Originally by: Director Stoned

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it's just insane how ships can fly fast and not be tackled. i'm not going to train up speed becuase it's wrong to fight that way, it's not only wrong it's not honorable.

A honorable pilot would not speed tank his ship, etc etc etc

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1 - LOL LOL, omg LOL!!!
2 - read all other posts above about how to counter them
3 - since when is eve about honor??? I wanna make kills, nothing else, that's what I like ab out eve

VAGABONDS RULE, and i can appriciate the pilots who pimp-fit theyr clone's! Makes it all the more interresting to chase and kill them

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Originally by: CrushProject

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then the guy with a bigger ship and more money would win every time.

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: CrushProject

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then the guy with a bigger ship and more money would win every time.

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I... Fail to see the problem.

The problem is, a faction fitted, gang skill-supported NON-specialist nanoship massively outperforms a faction fitted gang skill-supported specialist anti-nanoship. For example: nanoishtar vs. huginn. Huginn will just melt. Everyone here achknowledges that it requires multiple specialised ships (i.e., lach + huginn, plus gang skill support) to combat a single ship. This is the very definition of (pardon the cliche) a solopwnmobile. No ship in eve is meant to be a solopwnmobile.

(NB: this comparison does not apply to the vagabond - the vagabond is BALANCED as it is required to slow down and put itself at risk to engage, other nanoships such as the phoon and ishtar can keep up their speed and still deal all their DPS)

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Ishtar DPS can and will be shot down by any competent player. Huggins are not slow, either...

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Quote:

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I've menaged to defend from a nano-Ishtar in a 90M Hurricane setup (didn't have T2 guns at the time, even). Did have a rig-assisted tank, though - wouldn't have survived without it.

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Quote:

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Nanophoon? You really, really see a lot of them around, lol

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Originally by: zurich93

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The people who whine about speed tanks are forgetting one big thing, this isnt a solo game

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Originally by: mallina

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Speed tank-setups just need a counter other than a Huginn and they'd be fine. The upcoming Graviton beam is the answer, IMO

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Originally by: "Cyberus"

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cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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ohh... I'm sorry you can't solo a muli BILLION isk nano ship... I'm pretty sure you can't solo any mulit BILLION in mods, implants, boosters, etc PVP ship.

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Originally by: Random Incarnate

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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ohh... I'm sorry you can't solo a muli BILLION isk nano ship... I'm pretty sure you can't solo any mulit BILLION in mods, implants, boosters, etc PVP ship.

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Price is no justification for lack of balance, so your point is moot.

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Originally by: Sergis

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SIGNED finally common sense ppl see eagle 5th turret getting lots of positive feedback and now everyone wants everything boosted

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Originally by: Random Incarnate

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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ohh... I'm sorry you can't solo a muli BILLION isk nano ship... I'm pretty sure you can't solo any mulit BILLION in mods, implants, boosters, etc PVP ship.

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Price is no justification for lack of balance, so your point is moot.

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K then.

Nerf Cystals, BoB's Alliance tourney team tanks too hard (except against ten thoraxes).

Oh, and nerf Slaves, Cown's passive Abaddon has too much HP.

Idiot. Money = bigger and better modules/rigs/implants. Bigger and better modules/rigs/implants = better ship.

So yes, price IS justification for "lack of balance".

If I spend 500m+ on a set of Snakes so I can go 10km/s, I better ******* go 10km/s.

For all of you idiots saying "JUST CUZ ITS EXPENSIVE DUZNT MEEN IT SHUD B GUD", why the HELL do you think t2 modules are expensive?

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Ishtar DPS can and will be shot down by any competent player. Huggins are not slow, either...

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And the huginn DPS is nigh on non-existent to begin with. Can a damped huginn really keep on top of drones before it melts?

Quote:

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I've menaged to defend from a nano-Ishtar in a 90M Hurricane setup (didn't have T2 guns at the time, even). Did have a rig-assisted tank, though - wouldn't have survived without it.

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Thats because the hurricane tanks like a very tanky tank. I also refer you to my earlier post - The ishtar's accomplished his objective, he's disrupted your play, forced you to respond. You've failed to accomplish your objective of destroying the ishtar, who was free to disengage at his time of choosing.

Quote:

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Nanophoon? You really, really see a lot of them around, lol

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You do see the occasional one. It was more for the sake of argument, though. It's a low mass missile, drone and nos user.

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Originally by: Laboratus

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The point is not that they are unkillable. They go down just like the rest of us. The point is in module balance.

At the moment MWD and the web are the most overused module in game. Practically every pvp fit is using them. This is a good indicator that something is very wrong there.

MWD make it possible to zoom around 1-3k in battleships, 3-10k in cruisers and 4-50k in frigates. Considering that our maximum combat range was tuned down recently, these speeds are ridicilous. This leads to Web being a mandatory module on all pvp ships to slow down an enemy to actually get a fight. T2 webs have 90% speed reduction. This means you are effectively disabled after being webbed, if you don't have an MWD. Both modules are so overpowered they make eachother mandatory and lead to lack of diversity in fittings in the game. There is no point in engaging in range, when everyone and their dog can MWD next to you in a few seconds...

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Originally by: Laboratus

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The point is not that they are unkillable. They go down just like the rest of us. The point is in module balance.

At the moment MWD and the web are the most overused module in game. Practically every pvp fit is using them.

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Originally by: Laboratus

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MWD make it possible to zoom around 1-3k in battleships, 3-10k in cruisers and 4-50k in frigates. Considering that our maximum combat range was tuned down recently, these speeds are ridicilous. This leads to Web being a mandatory module on all pvp ships to slow down an enemy to actually get a fight.

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Originally by: Laboratus

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T2 webs have 90% speed reduction. This means you are effectively disabled after being webbed, if you don't have an MWD. Both modules are so overpowered they make eachother mandatory and lead to lack of diversity in fittings in the game. There is no point in engaging in range, when everyone and their dog can MWD next to you in a few seconds...

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Originally by: MR Wa1sh

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Originally by: mallina

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Speed tank-setups just need a counter other than a Huginn and they'd be fine. The upcoming Graviton beam is the answer, IMO

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They Already have a counter .... its called a Webber

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Originally by: Random Incarnate

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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ohh... I'm sorry you can't solo a muli BILLION isk nano ship... I'm pretty sure you can't solo any mulit BILLION in mods, implants, boosters, etc PVP ship.

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Price is no justification for lack of balance, so your point is moot.

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K then.

Nerf Cystals, BoB's Alliance tourney team tanks too hard (except against ten thoraxes).

Oh, and nerf Slaves, Cown's passive Abaddon has too much HP.

Idiot. Money = bigger and better modules/rigs/implants. Bigger and better modules/rigs/implants = better ship.

So yes, price IS justification for "lack of balance".

If I spend 500m+ on a set of Snakes so I can go 10km/s, I better ******* go 10km/s.

For all of you idiots saying "JUST CUZ ITS EXPENSIVE DUZNT MEEN IT SHUD B GUD", why the HELL do you think t2 modules are expensive?

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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Originally by: Rudy Metallo

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Originally by: Random Incarnate

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Originally by: Serp Buyer

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ohh... I'm sorry you can't solo a muli BILLION isk nano ship... I'm pretty sure you can't solo any mulit BILLION in mods, implants, boosters, etc PVP ship.

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Price is no justification for lack of balance, so your point is moot.

---

K then.

Nerf Cystals, BoB's Alliance tourney team tanks too hard (except against ten thoraxes).

Oh, and nerf Slaves, Cown's passive Abaddon has too much HP.

Idiot. Money = bigger and better modules/rigs/implants. Bigger and better modules/rigs/implants = better ship.

So yes, price IS justification for "lack of balance".

If I spend 500m+ on a set of Snakes so I can go 10km/s, I better ******* go 10km/s.

For all of you idiots saying "JUST CUZ ITS EXPENSIVE DUZNT MEEN IT SHUD B GUD", why the HELL do you think t2 modules are expensive?

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Go play Wow for Gods Sake! They have what you want there. A level 70 player can fight 20 noobs and kill them. Eve is not the game for you...

Eve is a game where money and play time can buy you more power but with decrescent benefits. With few exceptions, like speed, which must be addressed and corrected, you usually gain a much smaller performance increase for your few extra billions in relation to what people who payed 100 times less gained for their money. If you think that it is still worth it to pay 100 times the price for a small edge and have the money, by all means, do it. But if you think you can buy your victories just shut up and go away to another game that better suits your desires.

That is how most things are now, and that is how speed should be as well.

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Originally by: Mephistophilis

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Erm well i think the problem for me personally is this.....

A battle ship would have thousands of crew members, sleeping quarters, canteens and restaurants (well the caldari and gallente do anyway, not sure about the rest, you probably sleep eat and poo in the same room ) Anyhow, can you now imagine this Battleship orbiting another Battleship doint 5KM/second ?? I meen FFS people come on!!! The poor buggers eating there dinner in the ships restaraunt would be in a right state, mash and pees all over the place, sausages in your eyes and mustard up your nose! I'm not going to mention the toilets

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Originally by: Mephistophilis

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And don't give me non of your 'what about warp speed' malarki because i don't have an answer yet... but i will, you can mark my words

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Originally by: Laboratus

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At the moment MWD and the web are the most overused module in game. Practically every pvp fit is using them. This is a good indicator that something is very wrong there.

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Originally by: MITSUK0

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Using logic from this thread:

Drakes passive tank is overpowered because the only way I can kill it solo is to bring a 3 * dmg mod BS. (looking at one in eft that perma tanks~900dps)

You guys are morons, it is perfectly acceptable to heavily focus your ship in one aspect of fighting at the detriment of the others.

Nano ships go fast but thats all they do, I can tank vaga's that are fighting in falloff in any of my BC's. Then once I get the webs on (if they havent run away) they melt in seconds cause they have no tank. They also have crap cap sustainability.

Just ******* learn to play, if "all you see are nano ships" then start setting up to counter them, if its all your seeing then its worth spending the isk/slots.

Basicly stop being scrubs, spend the isk and learn the tactics you need to win.

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Originally by: MITSUK0

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Using logic from this thread:

Drakes passive tank is overpowered because the only way I can kill it solo is to bring a 3 * dmg mod BS. (looking at one in eft that perma tanks~900dps)

You guys are morons, it is perfectly acceptable to heavily focus your ship in one aspect of fighting at the detriment of the others.

Nano ships go fast but thats all they do, I can tank vaga's that are fighting in falloff in any of my BC's. Then once I get the webs on (if they havent run away) they melt in seconds cause they have no tank. They also have crap cap sustainability.

Just ******* learn to play, if "all you see are nano ships" then start setting up to counter them, if its all your seeing then its worth spending the isk/slots.

Basicly stop being scrubs, spend the isk and learn the tactics you need to win.

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Originally by: MITSUK0

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Nano ships go fast but thats all they do, I can tank vaga's...

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: MITSUK0

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Nano ships go fast but thats all they do, I can tank vaga's...

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As has been stated earlier, a vagabond has to put itself at risk and slow down to engage. It is fairly well balanced. It is ships capable of operating at 100% effectiveness (usually recons and hacs) while doing ridiculous speeds that they were never meant to do that're unbalanced.

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: zurich93

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The people who whine about speed tanks are forgetting one big thing, this isnt a solo game

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The same can be said for solo nanoships. They shouldnt be able to roam solo with impunity.

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Originally by: zurich93

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you wouldnt expect to take out a faction fitted vindicator in a t1 fitted mega wound you?

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: zurich93

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you wouldnt expect to take out a faction fitted vindicator in a t1 fitted mega wound you?

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What's this got to do with anything?

I WOULD expect to take out a T2 fitted nanoship (cruiser or below) with a T2 fitted huginn, but that's not gonna happen, because the nanoship will just jump/warp away.

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Originally by: Elmicker

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Originally by: zurich93

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you wouldnt expect to take out a faction fitted vindicator in a t1 fitted mega wound you?

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What's this got to do with anything?

I WOULD expect to take out a T2 fitted nanoship (cruiser or below) with a T2 fitted huginn, but that's not gonna happen, because the nanoship will just jump/warp away.

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