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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:07:00 - [151] Am I the only one horrified by the amount of brush-off logic and lack of reason in this thread? Saying "Don't go to Jita" is like saying "Don't go to the supermarket". Supermarkets are crowded, but some of the time it's the only place you can buy something in particular. Just looking at the contracts system is living proof of that. If you remove the element of necessity, you ease up greatly on the amount of people in system. If there is something you need and cant find anywhere else for a reasonable price (or at all, for that matter), you have every excuse to go to Jita. So stop tossing this "Don't go to Jita" BS in my face. As for improvements in load, an in-station auto-afk timer would be helpful. If a player is idle for one hour, it would open a prompt window asking to interact. If he/she doesn't respond within 5 minutes, they get the boot. Another option would be to transport people cloaked and 15km away from the station (much in the same way jump gates do), instead of undocking. It would significantly reduce collision calculations, and it would allow people to leave the area MUCH faster. Yet another option is obvious. Move the frikkin agents to a neighboring system. The belts were removed, some jump gates were deactivated, the next logical step would be to remove the missioning from that area. I say if it's going to be a vastly important trade hub, make it so that a trade hub is all it is! And I would do the same for Rens, Amarr, and Oursulaert (sp?). Seriously, it can't be that hard. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:40:00 - [152] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 07/10/2007 21:45:19 Originally by: Allen Ramses Am I the only one horrified by the amount of brush-off logic and lack of reason in this thread? Saying "Don't go to Jita" is like saying "Don't go to the supermarket". Supermarkets are crowded, but some of the time it's the only place you can buy something in particular. Jita is not the only place you can buy what you need though. If you can't handle the lag in Jita don't go to Jita. Unless you are a MAJOR manufacturer or trader, you don't really need to ever go to Jita if you don't like being there. Edit: Anything but the absolute rarest faction/officer modules that any regular pod pilot (as in not a big manufacturer or something like that) could possibly need can be easily had pretty much anywhere else in high sec empire space. You may need to go a few jumps back and forth to get all you need together, and may have to pay slightly more, but it will be there.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:41:00 - [153] Rens is fine btw Originally by: Akita T No, it's a trap ! I can tell from some of the modules and from seeing quite a few traps in my time...
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:44:00 - [154] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Allen Ramses Am I the only one horrified by the amount of brush-off logic and lack of reason in this thread? Saying "Don't go to Jita" is like saying "Don't go to the supermarket". Supermarkets are crowded, but some of the time it's the only place you can buy something in particular. Jita is not the only place you can buy what you need though. If you can't handle the lag in Jita don't go to Jita. Unless you are a MAJOR manufacturer or trader, you don't really need to ever go to Jita if you don't like being there. Now see some one that is smart ! ¦=knast CCP st÷=va Fj÷lvi og ISK seljandi
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 21:50:00 - [155] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 07/10/2007 21:45:19 Originally by: Allen Ramses Am I the only one horrified by the amount of brush-off logic and lack of reason in this thread? Saying "Don't go to Jita" is like saying "Don't go to the supermarket". Supermarkets are crowded, but some of the time it's the only place you can buy something in particular. Jita is not the only place you can buy what you need though. If you can't handle the lag in Jita don't go to Jita. Unless you are a MAJOR manufacturer or trader, you don't really need to ever go to Jita if you don't like being there. Edit: Anything but the absolute rarest faction/officer modules that any regular pod pilot (as in not a big manufacturer or something like that) could possibly need can be easily had pretty much anywhere else in high sec empire space. You may need to go a few jumps back and forth to get all you need together, and may have to pay slightly more, but it will be there. All true enough, but players will endure a tremendous amount if it is more convenient for them to puchase and sell items in one location. You can go blue in the face telling them 'hey this isnt the only Mal!' - its just not going to sink in. Put a wacking great dent in their wallet however.... C. - sig designer - eve mail
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:13:00 - [156] Originally by: Cailais All true enough, but players will endure a tremendous amount if it is more convenient for them to puchase and sell items in one location. You can go blue in the face telling them 'hey this isnt the only Mal!' - its just not going to sink in. Put a wacking great dent in their wallet however.... C. There's only two things that would permanantly fix the situation and keep it from happening again, imo. 1) Put a hard limit on how many sell orders can be active in any given system, or 2) Start jacking up the broker fee after a certain number of sell orders is reached (same thing as #1, only a 'soft' limit instead of a hard one) ----- My in Eve Profile
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:21:00 - [157] Originally by: Kessiaan Originally by: Cailais All true enough, but players will endure a tremendous amount if it is more convenient for them to puchase and sell items in one location. You can go blue in the face telling them 'hey this isnt the only Mal!' - its just not going to sink in. Put a wacking great dent in their wallet however.... C. There's only two things that would permanantly fix the situation and keep it from happening again, imo. 1) Put a hard limit on how many sell orders can be active in any given system, or 2) Start jacking up the broker fee after a certain number of sell orders is reached (same thing as #1, only a 'soft' limit instead of a hard one) I dont agree on the hard limit / artificial ceiling idea as its too rigid. I still think the way forward is to use dynamic load taxing across all systems (my post page 3 of this thread). In essence (if you cant be bothered to look for it) a system gets more expensive to sell and buy in the busier it is - using player population rather than actual trade orders themselves. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:30:00 - [158] It is not all about player laziness, but it has something to do with the Jita-Problem. From a Buyers perspective, not always but often you get the best prices or at least average prices in Jita. Buying rare and expensive items via contract, slso often leads to the contract in Jita 4-4. So if you want something, or simply want to order larger volumes, their is no way to avoid Jita. CCP could create an event, where all stations in Jita are being eaten by a giant space monster, but then simply new Caldari or Perimeter would become the new Jita. How about this, the game already has sales taxes. So add increased taxes to the sales volume of a station. If sales in a certain station reach massive levels the tax is raised by the station management until it becomes a real pain on any transaction.
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:34:00 - [159] fix: Make market truly player operated. This will balance prices out everywhere give shoppers more choices to go rather than just jita.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 22:45:00 - [160] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon It is not all about player laziness, but it has something to do with the Jita-Problem. From a Buyers perspective, not always but often you get the best prices or at least average prices in Jita. Buying rare and expensive items via contract, slso often leads to the contract in Jita 4-4. So if you want something, or simply want to order larger volumes, their is no way to avoid Jita. CCP could create an event, where all stations in Jita are being eaten by a giant space monster, but then simply new Caldari or Perimeter would become the new Jita. How about this, the game already has sales taxes. So add increased taxes to the sales volume of a station. If sales in a certain station reach massive levels the tax is raised by the station management until it becomes a real pain on any transaction. Pretty much identical to my solution, except you apply the tax because of high sales, I apply it by high population count. The difficulty with applying it to sales/purchases is that it doesn't reward someone for training up such skills for remote selling and purchases (which create less lag, as youre not physically present in the system activating modules etc etc). Equally you might have systems which would be ideal for selling but already have high population counts for other reasons (popular for missions, newbie spawn locations, good ores etc etc). So the tax rate here would be low suggesting it as a good market point in dynamic load terms but infact it would encourage more players there and quickly become over croweded. Now someone with high remote sale / purchasing skills can apply these skills by setting buy orders in lowly populated systems, or by pre positioning goods in these systems and then remote selling them when conditions are favourable to the purchaser (i.e when its less crowded). Finally it seems to me a darn site easier to calculate a population than work out the quantity of goods being sold - after all what do you use m3 of material? By ISK? Millions of datacores being sold would be a low figure by m3, but high in ISK terms, low grade ores would be the reverse. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.07 23:34:00 - [161] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 07/10/2007 23:34:42 Originally by: Vyyrus fix: Make market truly player operated. This will balance prices out everywhere give shoppers more choices to go rather than just jita. What do you mean by "truly player operated"? And how do shoppers not already have dozens of choices as it is? What is it exactly that you (you personally) buy in Jita that you couldn't buy somewhere else?
Insidi Us Amarr Suicidal Mercenaries Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.07 23:40:00 - [162] The NPC courier should only be have a max of three or four jumps. I shouldn't be able to have a battleship appear magically in the tip of 0.0 after I buy it in Jita (from the safety of 0.0 as well). NPC couriers should never be able to transport into low or no-sec either, since that would disrupt the supply line destruction those systems enable. So if your stuff is sent to New Caldari, you still have to pick it up and move it through Jan or Nalvula yourself. ----------- Fight the blob!
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.07 23:44:00 - [163] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 07/10/2007 21:45:19 Originally by: Allen Ramses Am I the only one horrified by the amount of brush-off logic and lack of reason in this thread? Saying "Don't go to Jita" is like saying "Don't go to the supermarket". Supermarkets are crowded, but some of the time it's the only place you can buy something in particular. Jita is not the only place you can buy what you need though. If you can't handle the lag in Jita don't go to Jita. Unless you are a MAJOR manufacturer or trader, you don't really need to ever go to Jita if you don't like being there. Edit: Anything but the absolute rarest faction/officer modules that any regular pod pilot (as in not a big manufacturer or something like that) could possibly need can be easily had pretty much anywhere else in high sec empire space. You may need to go a few jumps back and forth to get all you need together, and may have to pay slightly more, but it will be there. All true enough, but players will endure a tremendous amount if it is more convenient for them to puchase and sell items in one location. You can go blue in the face telling them 'hey this isnt the only Mal!' - its just not going to sink in. Put a wacking great dent in their wallet however.... C. I don't care if people go to Jita or not. Personally I love Jita and I go there almost everyday to buy or sell stuff both with this industrial alt (to make money) and my main character (for ships and modules). For me the lag is bearable in 99% of the times I'm there. It's the forum whining that gets old and tired. I'm going to be generous and assume that others are (for whatever reason) having far worse lag problems in Jita than I do. If they are having such problems to the point where it outweighs the convenience, why go there? There is Rens. There is Amarr. There is Dodixie and nearby systems like Auvergne, Egglennaert, Aunia and so on. There is Oursullaert. There is Hek. Go there and help reduce the lag problem for the rest of us who go to Jita. If they aren't, and the convenience outweighs whatever lag problems they are having, then what is the problem?
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.10.07 23:45:00 - [164] Originally by: CCP Explorer Thanks for all the excellent ideas and thoughts on the different types and possible implementations of dynamic taxes, NPC vs. player courier services, turning Jita into a virtual system, etc, etc. Good stuff, keep it coming. Why not just increase broker fee's this way its totally transparent, right in front of your face, and doesnt have to have as much code written as a dynamic tax system... albiet it would be close to the same amount but it would just be dynamic broker fee's which make more sense vs tax from an RP perspective... think about it... do you increase tax and purposely lose business and thus money if your running a system... or do the brokers in the system gain such a high work load that they must increase their prices as their time is in shorter supply.... well you get the point =) ----------- "Mercinaries never die, we just go to hell to regroup." -xOm3gAx '99
Kage Psychodin Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.08 05:35:00 - [165] I think the courier service (1-3 jumps) would solve a lot of the problem, then just trade ships would go to jita. it would have to be NPC controlled, though (anbd fairly instant) to be used at all. The Tax idea is just plain silly though, people would just wait or buy. the fix should never hurt the consumer. Likewise, changing it to 0.4 just means everything moves next door (and 0.0 would just be silly, it would be like a sec status black hole, and just ridiculously broken.) Interesting ideas? yes. everyone should speak their ideas. I just don't feel many are good. Another one bites the dust.
Buford Early Wild Talents	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:39:00 - [166] Why not make the market to be more like the Factory & Research system with a max no. of slots per station/system ? Would it not help spread the load from a Jita a bit ?
NereSky Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:50:00 - [167] well phase 1 seems good by the op - getting rid of all the eye candy - and the agents can be moved to 1 or 2 jumps around Jita, (reduction of the amount of stations, removal of billboards and agents ect) after thinking about it, putting limits on sales ect will just create another Jita elsewhere, ive read changing the system to 0.4, again that will just create another Jita elsewhere how about CCP discuss with major traders in Jita and discuss about the possibility of relocating (costs covered ect and maybe a sweetener) either way if traders are moved to area's 1 or 2 jumps around Jita this will create a health split of major retailers in and around Jit, making a true sales hub. further to that CCP can add speciality stations (like a shopping centre type) to Jita and surrounds and incl other trade hubs these stations can give speciality services like shops ect and can be rented out to traders with set requirements making them the only people that can sell (with the exception of contracts ofc) these are just some thoughts but there will always be a Yulai/Jita so embrace the hub and give lots of love to traders and make trading specialised with lots of rewards to work towards.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:33:00 - [168] Originally by: Cailais A door tax (pay to enter), or a loitering tax (pay to stay) works; but only up to a point. The system employed must be dynamic - effecting all systems otherwise a 'new jita' will just pop up nearby (and then you need to tax that and so forth. Perhaps I should have been more explicit - I've always thought of this as a global solution, not a local one. Quote: If you apply a tax by gates (the more traffic through a gate, the higher the toll fee) you'll get high cost and low cost corridor routes - which in theory would work, but then your charging players just to move around and I don't think that will be popular. To save isk players will move less and markets would stagnate. Well, the charge could be constructed so as not to affect trial accounts. Ideally, it would scale with server lag vs. # of players; i.e. not significant at all for up to about 200 people, but increasing quite sharply after that. Quote: One interesting side note about a dynamic tax system per head of population is its possible impact upon low sec, and 0.0. Low Sec is often slated (there's no 'reward' for going there). But as Low Sec is typically less populated in theory low sec players will be better off in localised areas as they will pay less in taxation for trades (assuming they don't aim for a wider market and sell in Empire). I wonder whether it wouldn't be a bad idea to set the tolls for low sec to negative values to persuade more people to go there. Quote: .0 Alliances could conceivably set their own tax rates - a Alliance that has a low tax rate at its Outposts would attract trade: if it can also police its native space it might make good revenue from such taxation. Assuming said alliance doesnt want to Tax its own membership (lets say you can adjust your Sov Sys tax rate by standing) and doesnt employ a NBSI policy it could make a lot of ISK. A lot of people frown upon the current system for being too permissive - people without docking rights are still able to engage in trade and market manipulation in sovereign space. This would be an interesting way of deterring that. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:46:00 - [169] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch 3. Allow people to buy things from Jita without being in Jita. Those systems right next to Jita you mentioned, link a station in each system to Jita 4-4 so that shopping in a 4-4 mirror is the same as shopping in Jita 4-4. This method or that EVE-wide interbus idea you've been teasing us with forever. This is pretty much the key. The immediate area needs to be converted to an official trade zone. Make every system Jita connects to (and only these systems) a member of the trade zone, and allow any goods purchased from any station in this zone to immediately be delivered to any other station in the trade zone. This immediately splits up the load in Jita from 1 system to 5 or 6 systems without breaking the centralized market, because you won't need to go in to Jita when you can stop 1 jump out. The fact of the matter is that this isn't a warzone, there's no reason why people need to be on the same node as long as goods can be delivered elsewhere. Furthermore this seems like it would be easy to implement and is virtually abuse-proof (since it's limited to just Jita). Sure, some RP purists will have issues with goods immediately appearing at another station, but so what? It improves the player experience without any significant negative consequences. It is just a game after all. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 07:53:00 - [170] Originally by: Tortun Nahme REAL solution to the Jita problem ban everyone who makes a Jita thread! jita population will drop like crazeh! QFT, TORTUN FOR PREZZI! ALL HAIL THE OODLES OF TRUTH! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 08:15:00 - [171] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch 3. Allow people to buy things from Jita without being in Jita. Those systems right next to Jita you mentioned, link a station in each system to Jita 4-4 so that shopping in a 4-4 mirror is the same as shopping in Jita 4-4. This method or that EVE-wide interbus idea you've been teasing us with forever. This is pretty much the key. The immediate area needs to be converted to an official trade zone. Make every system Jita connects to (and only these systems) a member of the trade zone, and allow any goods purchased from any station in this zone to immediately be delivered to any other station in the trade zone. This immediately splits up the load in Jita from 1 system to 5 or 6 systems without breaking the centralized market, because you won't need to go in to Jita when you can stop 1 jump out. The fact of the matter is that this isn't a warzone, there's no reason why people need to be on the same node as long as goods can be delivered elsewhere. Furthermore this seems like it would be easy to implement and is virtually abuse-proof (since it's limited to just Jita). Sure, some RP purists will have issues with goods immediately appearing at another station, but so what? It improves the player experience without any significant negative consequences. It is just a game after all. While this would probably work (after all you're creating a multi-system 'jita') Id be worried what impact it would have on the global market, players might now only go to this hyper-mal to trade and nowhere else. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.10.08 08:43:00 - [172] Originally by: Cailais Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch 3. Allow people to buy things from Jita without being in Jita. Those systems right next to Jita you mentioned, link a station in each system to Jita 4-4 so that shopping in a 4-4 mirror is the same as shopping in Jita 4-4. This method or that EVE-wide interbus idea you've been teasing us with forever. This is pretty much the key. The immediate area needs to be converted to an official trade zone. Make every system Jita connects to (and only these systems) a member of the trade zone, and allow any goods purchased from any station in this zone to immediately be delivered to any other station in the trade zone. This immediately splits up the load in Jita from 1 system to 5 or 6 systems without breaking the centralized market, because you won't need to go in to Jita when you can stop 1 jump out. The fact of the matter is that this isn't a warzone, there's no reason why people need to be on the same node as long as goods can be delivered elsewhere. Furthermore this seems like it would be easy to implement and is virtually abuse-proof (since it's limited to just Jita). Sure, some RP purists will have issues with goods immediately appearing at another station, but so what? It improves the player experience without any significant negative consequences. It is just a game after all. While this would probably work (after all you're creating a multi-system 'jita') Id be worried what impact it would have on the global market, players might now only go to this hyper-mal to trade and nowhere else. C. That's a valid concern. But considering the lag isn't driving away anyone that wants to be at Jita in the first place, I don't see this attracting many new customers to the area. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map: Keeping Down The Clone Business Since 2007AD
alt muppet	Posted - 2007.10.08 08:48:00 - [173] the buyers should not be penalised for shopping in jita, they dont have much option but to go there. tax the sellorders extremely hard so the sellorders a jump or 3 away is up to 30-50% more profitable=congestion fixed call it overusage fee or congestion tax or whatever but when sellorders and contracts reach a certain amount in jita the tax should kick in and force remaining orders to vacate or do very bad business.
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.08 09:23:00 - [174] Originally by: Necronomicon Phase 1 1. Remove all NPC markets from the system, player only transactions. 2. Remove all unrequired eye candy (Billboards etc) 3. Remove all agents no matter how un-used they are. This will increase the system somewhat. Phase 2 1. Place a limit on items for sale per station (this will force players to use different stations, and at full saturation, will be forced to market in nearby systems, thus a market constellation will form rather than a single system) 2. Make a new security rating of 1.1, concord's premiere security, outside of war, any vessel opening fire is instabbqd before they are even able to hit the target vessel - This will root out the alt corp suiciders who snag up the stations, and also reduce clutter at the gates. jita is fine, the swarm of gank-tards and morons who seem to be convinced that jita is the only system in the universe are the problem. sell your stuff in adjoining systems - you'll still be in the same constellation and region so people can see your wares from jita, they just have to make one extra jump to haul it (or one less depending on where they're comming from). ========================================== Iy please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read
Cornucopian Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 09:27:00 - [175] Originally by: alt muppet the buyers should not be penalised for shopping in jita, they dont have much option but to go there. tax the sellorders extremely hard so the sellorders a jump or 3 away is up to 30-50% more profitable=congestion fixed call it overusage fee or congestion tax or whatever but when sellorders and contracts reach a certain amount in jita the tax should kick in and force remaining orders to vacate or do very bad business. WARNING WARNING! BULLCRAP ALERT! capsuleers have more than enough options apart from jita. you absolute MUPPET! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Selene Bork Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.08 09:30:00 - [176] I would like the Jita situation be sorted, but alas I don`t think it will. We had Yulai before this, and when the superhighways were removed Jita became the nexus. Especially that CN Station at 4-4. Always lots of people outside lol. If I was in charge of the Caldari Navy station there I would charge people to dock Seriously, people like a one stop shop where they can buy everything they don`t like to travel over many systems to get what the need. Best idea I`ve seen is they actually do the interbus thing, and have like 4 systems linked to jita, so you can buy stuff and they get delivered at a nonimal cost. Either that or putt a congestion charge during peak times on the Jita gates, works excellent for London Regards Selene
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.08 09:46:00 - [177] Originally by: alt muppet tax the sellorders extremely hard so the sellorders a jump or 3 away is up to 30-50% more profitable=congestion fixed Get out of the Forge and discover the many other regional markets that do exist out there, and the problem will be solved.
Kayna Eelai	Posted - 2007.10.08 09:54:00 - [178] Originally by: Major Dim Edited by: Major Dim on 06/10/2007 18:54:07 The solution that i hear always - DONT GO TO JITA - is really not a valuable one. If u look into the RL for a second, we have supermarkets, bazars and so on. people tend to make the trades easier for both sides - the buyer and the seller. And forbidding one to go to jita is not an option - everyone pays the same price for playing and has a right to go to any system he wants. And with the recent adverts of CCP like having a 1000 man battles i wonder WTF IS GOING ON? We pay all the same ammount and they advertise, but a system with 700ppl in it doing trades just goes down and doesnt work.... Its not the players fault that one system - which became the main trading system ingame - doesnt work properly. Its the devs fault that they cant make it work as it should for the money we pay. There are many ways that could ake it work - for exaple - FAR TRADE skill with delivery. Iplement a skill that would allow u to buy things reotely and get the there where u are atm. So u could be in any system at the region and buy the things and get the at the place u are - without the need to fly to Jita. but that would make many ppl sick cuz they trained trading and so on and the game becamae a diffrent ballance. There are many troubles with that - but telling ppl they shouldnt go to the main trading system if they want avoid client crashes is just sick. We pay, we want, and we deserve. Remeber - we all are equial but some are more equial than others ---- that MUST NOT BE. I want a bazar and CCP the hell have to offer me it in the same way they offer to others. So there must be a system capeable of holding 1000+ players without lag. My 2 cents are off. Fly safe wall of text wrecks you for 9999
Kayna Eelai	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:04:00 - [179] after reading all... jesus christ what a **load of crap and stupid whines... wanna solve jita problem? go ONE FRIGGING JUMP into next system, sell your stuff there for a few ISK cheaper and see how more and more ppl. move to the other system. oh BTW... oursulaert (sp?) and rens are very good tradehubs too (specially rens) but OHNOES you would actually have to TRAVEL or use COURIER CONTRACTS... if i am in amarr space and i need something i can only get in bigger tradehubs... and JITA is 6 jumps away and RENS is like 30ish jumps... i set the autopilot to rens and go watch TV a little. not that real life comparisons are popular... but: all this whining crap sounds for me like some kind of movie about some marrok market-hub, where everybody goes to the same city, the same market, because they just CAN'T BE ARSED to go elsewhere... and then, when thieves and thugs appear, they blame the freaking governement for not investing into more police... when IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT. point is: you don't like JITA? go elsewhere. period.**
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:31:00 - [180] The Jita problem occurs in EVERY MMO with a substantial economy, I remember the auctionhouse/bank in WoW, Coronet starport in SWG and when those were discussed in those games, people referred back to a similar place in EQ. Simple fact of life: conglomeration effect has so many positive effects that even despite any game design choices, a highly concentrated hub to trade will occur. When CCP addressed Yulai, they just shifted the problem around. And intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with Jita of course, so there is no reason to assume it would be different in any other system. That being said, there are several things CCP could EASILY do to improve the situation without just moving the problem to another system. IMO any attempts to make a Jita-type system impossible are not smart, since there are definite positive wealth effects due to the existence of Jita (if there weren't, Jita would not be a problem). Things CCP could do: - Remove all agents from Jita and directly surrounding systems - Create jumpgate bypasses around Jita that mkae travel easier/faster to reduce transit traffic that only adds to the load. - Rearrange stuff in Jita, make sure that the 4-4 Station exit directly FACES all the gates out, so people leaving have an easier time to get out. - Remove all unneeded fluf from Jita. Those things don't detract from the market hub function of Jita as it would be counterproductive (either by shifting 'Jita-load' to a new system, or by reducing the wealth benefit of the existence of hub systems). ------------------------------------------------ New idea for sovereignty: Sovereignty revisited

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