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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Necronomicon
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme REAL solution to the Jita problem
ban everyone who makes a Jita thread!
jita population will drop like crazeh!
Considering I spend most of my eve time in low sec or 0.0 I am not a frequent visitor to the laggiest of the laggy which is Jita, I purely visit on occassion to buy stuff I cannot find for a reasonable price (or at all) elsewhere.
This is purely posted as when the issue of Jita becomes a popup on my screen when I am 40 jumps away, it becomes my issue.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:26:00 -
[32]
Originally by: F90OEX Bottom line CCP are going to have to make drastic changes to Jita
Originally by: Necronomicon CCP obviously do need to do something about Jita (...) Having everything in 4-4 is just a laziness that has been allowed to blaze out of control. Perimeter, and Niyabainen both have a good station structure, there is no reason other than the aforementioned laziness for having everything in the one station.
Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita...
Well, OK, existentially speaking we created Jita as in "Jita the solarsystem" but we didn't create Jita as in "Jita the overcrowded marketplace".
/puts on fire protection suit
You did.
The Forge is the biggest market region (see the breakdown of, e.g., the mineral market in CCP Dr.EyjoG's dev blog no. 1). Most of the trade in The Forge takes place in Jita and nearly all of trade in Jita is in Jita 4-4 CNAP.
One station. In all of EVE.
What is this fascination with Jita? What's wrong with New Caldari, Maurasi, Perimeter, Niyabainen and Ikuchi? All in The Forge and one jump from Jita.
The solution is obvious, trade somewhere else. It may not be as convenient and may be slightly more expensive but at least you avoid the pain of Jita. Perhaps that's the real issue, perhaps Jita still hasn't reached the pain threshold? The answer could then be to tax Jita? Make it more painful and less attractive.
Another option that has been suggested on the forums is to implement an NPC courier service. From a software perspective it's probably easy to do, but the effects on the evolution of the EVE universe are more difficult to project.
Anyway, we are aware of the situation and I think CCP Oveur is planning a meeting on this topic. But I'm not making any promises on when that will happen, if at all; perhaps universes are just supposed to have a crowded "centre-of-town". Many of you probably live near one, both in EVE and in real life.
Well, my laptop is at 4% battery, better sign off now.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:33:00 -
[33]
The fact you cant be arsed to fix it after 2 years or whatever speaks volumes.
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Foomanshoe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:35:00 -
[34]
We used to all trade in Yulai if you'll remember, but apparently you werent too high and mighty to fix that when this problem happened there and completely rework the map. _______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Braaage
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:36:00 -
[35]
Quote: Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita...
Well, OK, existentially speaking we created Jita as in "Jita the solarsystem" but we didn't create Jita as in "Jita the overcrowded marketplace".
/puts on fire protection suit
You did.
Technically speaking you're wrong, you DID turn Jita into what it is now.
How I hear you ask...
Well Jita was Yulai, Yulai was the attention of marketeers everywhere and you stopped that by altering the highways and removing certain gates in such a way it wasn't easy to get to anymore.
So what happened..... we found a new Yulai and called it Jita.
So yeh we the players are responsible for our actions, but saying you did nothing and have nothing to do with it is actually quite wrong. You actually caused jita to happen, if you hadn't altered the highways and gates Yulai would still be the focus point.
-- eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info
Now includes setting up POSs in Empire |
Nice Guy
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:38:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Nice Guy on 06/10/2007 23:41:46
Originally by: CCP Explorer Stuff
Basic breakdown? Don't go to Jita if you don't want to face the problems. Simple eh? Still, people whine when they go to Jita and get stuck. Seriously, the lag isn't a problem. Ohnoes you need to wait 2 seconds for a market order, well face it, YOU wanted to buy / build / sell in Jita, so put up with it. The black screens of death are somewhat unpleasant, but guess what, YOU wanted to go to Jita for some reason... So live with it.
Offcourse, CCP should fix jita, problem is, that when they fix a lot of lag, even more players will go to Jita because "TEH LAG IS FIXED!!!11!!" and a day or two later, we'r up to 2000 people in local, and back to where we started. Like explorer said, WE created Jita, and will keep it that way. CCP didn't create it, and is doing everything in its power to "fix" Jita by slapping on more hardware, and optimize code.
Originally by: Foomanshoe We used to all trade in Yulai if you'll remember, but apparently you werent too high and mighty to fix that when this problem happened there and completely rework the map.
Guess what, they learned from their mistake and figured they can't stop this kind of behavior with changing the map So, they decided to give it a go, and see where it ended. Well Jita is the end of the story...
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Solvalou PE
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:41:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Explorer Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita...
did you not listen ? i think jita should be left as is , if you dont like then dont go there but then you people would find something else to whine about !
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Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Solvalou PE
Originally by: CCP Explorer Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita...
did you not listen ? i think jita should be left as is , if you dont like then dont go there but then you people would find something else to whine about !
Wait wut? CCP whining about Jita whines? Epic thread!
Sign my sig |
Major Death
Caldari Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:45:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Major Death on 06/10/2007 23:46:34
Quote: The solution is obvious, trade somewhere else. It may not be as convenient and may be slightly more expensive but at least you avoid the pain of Jita. Perhaps that's the real issue, perhaps Jita still hasn't reached the pain threshold? The answer could then be to tax Jita? Make it more painful and less attractive.
Jita exists because it saves the most valuable resource in EVE (something not mentioned in the economic blogs) - Player Time. With the exception of 23/7 pharmers or shared accounts, the player base of EVE has a life outside the game and wants to do things that are interesting while playing. Having a central market hub saves a lot of time. Imagine spending hours running around picking up your purchases, you begin to understand why people like trade hubs. Start factoring in Player Time into your economic calculations and perhaps things might run more smoothly.
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
Capt Rapace
Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:50:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Capt Rapace on 06/10/2007 23:50:45
Originally by: Velsharoon The fact you cant be arsed to fix it after 2 years or whatever speaks volumes.
Fix it? The only way to fix it at the moment, really, is to add more hardware. Which means taking hardware away from other nodes. Hey hey hey, Jita runs smooth as silk, but I can't get a 1v1 in 0.0 without horrendous lag. Great.
Of course, they could always buy more hardware... but then again, why should Jita take priority over the rest of EVE? Even at its laggiest, it's still functioning. You don't need 10ms response time to buy stuff on the market.
Also, any attempt to 'tax' or inhibit the specific system 'Jita' in any way will just mean the hub shifts over to another system (And not 'spread across multiple systems' as some happy-fairy-tail-ending dreams that people are having)
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Foomanshoe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nice Guy
Originally by: Foomanshoe We used to all trade in Yulai if you'll remember, but apparently you werent too high and mighty to fix that when this problem happened there and completely rework the map.
Guess what, they learned from their mistake and figured they can't stop this kind of behavior with changing the map So, they decided to give it a go, and see where it ended. Well Jita is the end of the story...
My point would be that if they would listen to us in the first place, we all told them that their 'solution' was just a bandaid and the market would readjust and recentralize. Did they care? No they just ripped out the old highway anyways. But now Explorer comes here and acts like his **** dont stink and its not CCPs fault? Does no one in CCP have even a basic understanding of the market?
Make it a Market only system like necro suggests. Its a GOOD suggestion. Its a logical suggestion, and you can easily weave it into game lore if that is even a concern. 1.1 security? no war? maybe maybe not? but getting rid of all the stuff in the system that isnt necissary to the market such as agents, and blocking all agent missions from going through jita would be a fantastic idea. Preventing combat/locking is an option (extreme) as it means you dont even have to spawn concord/sentry guns and dont have to worry about combat lag.
At the bare minimum take the first steps in minimizing the unnecissary things in jita. _______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Foomanshoe We used to all trade in Yulai if you'll remember, but apparently you werent too high and mighty to fix that when this problem happened there and completely rework the map.
That experience taught us never to try it again.
Originally by: Braaage Technically speaking you're wrong, you DID turn Jita into what it is now (...) You actually caused jita to happen, if you hadn't altered the highways and gates Yulai would still be the focus point.
... my breakdown above would then have applied to Yulai instead of Jita.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Capt Rapace
Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Foomanshoe
Originally by: Nice Guy
Originally by: Foomanshoe We used to all trade in Yulai if you'll remember, but apparently you werent too high and mighty to fix that when this problem happened there and completely rework the map.
Guess what, they learned from their mistake and figured they can't stop this kind of behavior with changing the map So, they decided to give it a go, and see where it ended. Well Jita is the end of the story...
My point would be that if they would listen to us in the first place, we all told them that their 'solution' was just a bandaid and the market would readjust and recentralize. Did they care? No they just ripped out the old highway anyways. But now Explorer comes here and acts like his **** dont stink and its not CCPs fault? Does no one in CCP have even a basic understanding of the market?
Make it a Market only system like necro suggests. Its a GOOD suggestion. Its a logical suggestion, and you can easily weave it into game lore if that is even a concern. 1.1 security? no war? maybe maybe not? but getting rid of all the stuff in the system that isnt necissary to the market such as agents, and blocking all agent missions from going through jita would be a fantastic idea. Preventing combat/locking is an option (extreme) as it means you dont even have to spawn concord/sentry guns and dont have to worry about combat lag.
At the bare minimum take the first steps in minimizing the unnecissary things in jita.
Seriously. Take a deep breath, ***** open a beer. Watch TV or something for a while.
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Velsharoon
Gallente Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:57:00 -
[44]
I think its fine that we have a central market, i cba journeying half way across a verse looking for shoe laces or whatever, and I still shop in my local most of the time (rens).
But simple things like removing agents making a system wide market or whatever need fa effort to do yet arent done. Same as their laggy fleet fights, change all drones to wee "x"s and booya more playability (i assume and if im wrong correct me)
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:00:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Jaabaa on 07/10/2007 00:00:36
Originally by: CCP Explorer Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita...
Well, OK, existentially speaking we created Jita as in "Jita the solarsystem" but we didn't create Jita as in "Jita the overcrowded marketplace".
/puts on fire protection suit
You did.
Trade is where the ISK is, and a lot of ISK is where the mission runners are.
How many Caldari agents can we squeeze into a single system ?
There is the problem.
It used to be Yulai/Pator, because it was kind of central, but now it is Jita because every man and his dog want to run the agents there.
Simply banish all level 4 and above agents to low sec, not in a 0.9 system with CNRs begging to be picked up.
Put your flame suit on (you being CCP) because your agent relocation caused this, same in Rens and elsewhere. -- EVE Tools for cell phones and Windows/linux/Mac systems http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
BobBarkerr
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zosana If anything there should be an "avoid Jita" option on the autopilot.
I agree .. lol
Jita has been and always will be lag vill untill people spread out a bit more.
I don't go to jita anymore .. I buy my stuff at maybe 1% higher cost at other places but tbh, the Crap you have to put up with in jita just isn't worth that extra little bit of savings you can make by buying cheaper.
Granted, If you could buy a Cap ship there i might but as it is, Its just not worth the 20-40 jumps it takes to get there.
You guys keep playing around jita though, Let the rest of us laugh at you lagging out and getting suicide ganked when you dont have to.
And yes this is a alt.. Deal with it |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:03:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Major Death Edited by: Major Death on 06/10/2007 23:46:34
Quote: The solution is obvious, trade somewhere else. It may not be as convenient and may be slightly more expensive but at least you avoid the pain of Jita. Perhaps that's the real issue, perhaps Jita still hasn't reached the pain threshold? The answer could then be to tax Jita? Make it more painful and less attractive.
Jita exists because it saves the most valuable resource in EVE (something not mentioned in the economic blogs) - Player Time. With the exception of 23/7 pharmers or shared accounts, the player base of EVE has a life outside the game and wants to do things that are interesting while playing. Having a central market hub saves a lot of time. Imagine spending hours running around picking up your purchases, you begin to understand why people like trade hubs. Start factoring in Player Time into your economic calculations and perhaps things might run more smoothly.
I think that if more players factored in this strange "Player Time" concept of which you speak, there wouldn't be a problem with Jita. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Venko Trenulo
Wakizashi Renaissance
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Why do we need to fix Jita? We didn't create Jita... [...] You did. [...] The solution is obvious, trade somewhere else. It may not be as convenient and may be slightly more expensive but at least you avoid the pain of Jita. Perhaps that's the real issue, perhaps Jita still hasn't reached the pain threshold?
It's certainly true that we created Jita 4/4 CNAP as the main hub, and we were right to do so. One-stop shopping ftw if you have a freighter. However, you created Jita in the sense that it had a great many links, it was on the way to everywhere, it had good agents, it had ice fields and ore, and just about everything one could want.
The only reason I think it's your responsibility to fix it is that the pain is due to the bit on your end: lag and node crashing. I'm sure you're just as concerned about this as you are about the difficulty of supporting fleet operations... and I think you should be. I don't think you need worry about the pain of suicide gank squads (except to the extent you want to change them for all of EVE) or scammers (ditto) or any of the other player-driven dynamics. However, lag is all on you, and that shouldn't be the "pain" that drives us out.
I appreciate all you've done to make an astounding game, by the way. This isn't whinging in that sense -- however, I going to call BS on the notion that you don't have a responsibility to keep it running.
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Necronomicon
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:09:00 -
[49]
Would be VERY inetresting if you reinstaed the Niyabainen<Kemerk>Yulai gates, and sat back to see what happened. You might get a natural split of load between the 2 areas. Have not looked at that area's map in a while, I might be wrong.
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Foomanshoe
Make it a Market only system like necro suggests. Its a GOOD suggestion. Its a logical suggestion, and you can easily weave it into game lore if that is even a concern. 1.1 security? no war? maybe maybe not? but getting rid of all the stuff in the system that isnt necissary to the market such as agents, and blocking all agent missions from going through jita would be a fantastic idea. Preventing combat/locking is an option (extreme) as it means you dont even have to spawn concord/sentry guns and dont have to worry about combat lag.
At the bare minimum take the first steps in minimizing the unnecissary things in jita.
Its just another silly bandaid fix that you yourself whine about. You just squeeze in a few more players before it goes back to the same "problem". There are other tradehubs.
The only real solution is "dont go to jita".
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Foomanshoe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:15:00 -
[51]
I really miss Devs talking to the player base on IRC. Does that still happen ever?
Also, could someone explain how explorers post isnt inflamitory?
I know i am coming off as a jerk, and ill apologize, it seems to me however that customer service has gone downhill from what i remember at CCP. I used to be proud that i played a game that had developers that interacted with their player base and listened to their suggestions seriously. Developers who wanted to make the best game possible and thought that a big part of that was having strong communication with your consumers.
Did something change while i was gone? _______________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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Hunters Presence
Amarr The DARLEXS Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:18:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Hunters Presence on 07/10/2007 00:24:59 Edited by: Hunters Presence on 07/10/2007 00:20:28 Edited by: Hunters Presence on 07/10/2007 00:19:10 The devs aren't responsible for Jita being a market place...
...but they are responsible for providing adequate resources to support letting the players do what they want.
"Lag is the player's fault for trying to do what should be within the remit of the game's mechanics" is what you're basically saying there.
"Players are expected to be inventive and create their own universe, but if our server architecture can't support it then screw 'em."
"If the citizens want to deal with the problem of yobs, they should sort it out themselves... because they made the kids, not us" said the council, who were supposed to be caretakers of the city. Caretakers being the EXACT word used by CCP to describe their own role over the world of EVE.
I personally never go to Jita, but I've never seen a golden-lined response quite so incredibly... badly thought out. Fanning the flames with poor official responses is ~not~ helpful.
Addendum: To clarify... Jita is not your responsibility. Servers that can't handle what's thrown at them is. If it isn't, I want to know quite what the dev team IS getting paid to be responsible for...
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Sul Condbax
Open Season
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:19:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sul Condbax on 07/10/2007 00:21:55 Edited by: Sul Condbax on 07/10/2007 00:21:33
Originally by: Foomanshoe I really miss Devs talking to the player base on IRC. Does that still happen ever?
Also, could someone explain how explorers post isnt inflamitory?
I know i am coming off as a jerk, and ill apologize, it seems to me however that customer service has gone downhill from what i remember at CCP. I used to be proud that i played a game that had developers that interacted with their player base and listened to their suggestions seriously. Developers who wanted to make the best game possible and thought that a big part of that was having strong communication with your consumers.
Did something change while i was gone?
yes, you're coming off as a jerk.
You're hijacking a thread for your own purposes. And you're whining that the devs don't talk to you as much as you would like.
I am guessing that, even if they read you bedtime stories every night, that still wouldn't be enough.
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:22:00 -
[54]
Edited by: CCP Explorer on 07/10/2007 00:23:04
Originally by: Venko Trenulo I appreciate all you've done to make an astounding game, by the way. This isn't whinging in that sense -- however, I going to call BS on the notion that you don't have a responsibility to keep it running.
We do have that responsibility, my intention was only to point out that this problem isn't easy to solve. And as I mentioned, we haven't given up on addressing it.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:22:00 -
[55]
I have to say, I've never been affected by the Jita problem at all until today. And the problem I had was that the devs actually had to interrupt my experience with a popup to tell the rest of you sheep not to go to a system with 900 people in it. Christ. ------------ Whiners - Unite! | Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist. |
BobBarkerr
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
You did.
uh no .. The players did not . CCP and their nerfs/market manipulation etc created jita. That and the fact CCP has chosen not to upgrade the servers properly.
Trying to blame what happens in game on the user base is not acceptable when the issues ingame are not the problem.
Want to fix jita? Get better or more servers. (While not the end all fix, This would drastically help)
Mehh.. Wonder if this post will get me banned or maybe they will see fit just to lock the topic or deleat this post. |
Sul Condbax
Open Season
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:25:00 -
[57]
selective quoting ftl
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BobBarkerr
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:34:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Sul Condbax selective quoting ftl
yep .. but it doesn't make it any less true.
CCP or i should say their representative explorer would like us all to think that WE the users are at fault here when it is actually CCP's responsibility to provide a workable environment.
Node crashes does not = a workable environment.
I really mean no offense to CCP.. I just like most people like to get what i pay for. Mehh Why am i even in this thread? I refuse to go to jita anyways. |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:37:00 -
[59]
Edited by: CCP Explorer on 07/10/2007 00:38:58 Edited by: CCP Explorer on 07/10/2007 00:38:25
Originally by: BobBarkerr Trying to blame what happens in game on the user base is not acceptable when the issues ingame are not the problem.
I was not blaming anybody, merely pointing out that there are no game mechanism that force players to go to Jita, it's a choice. Then I spent the second half of my post mentioning possible solutions. At least that's all what I intended to do
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tarminic
Quote:
Want to fix jita? Get better or more servers. (While not the end all fix, This would drastically help)
If only CCP has been very vocal about developing this, rewriting their network code, and utilizing systems that allow them to allocate more than one CPU to a system. If only
The issue isn't the server load but the economic distribution of ISK earners in empire space. Kind of like this:
Lots of rich mission runners wanting pimped rides = lots of people wanting to sell it to them.
So stick a load of level 4 agents in a nice system (like, ehm, Jita) and what do you get, a market (local) overload. -- EVE Tools for cell phones and Windows/linux/Mac systems http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
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