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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:30:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Akita T
Short-range missiles are supposed to heavily out-range short-range weapons.
Rockets go up to 10km, HAMs up to 20km, and that's with T1 (or faction) ammo.
Now, a torpedo only reaching out to 20km too, just like a HAM (which by the way was balanced up in range recently), that's absurd.
Doesn't matter the Raven has a +50% extra range bonus (making it 30km), other torpedo-using BSs don't have it, and 20km range of torps on a Typhoon is indeed absurd, no matter how you put it.
A torpedo should go (from an unbonused ship) at least out to 30km.
It used to go out to 84+km for chrissakes ! You don't have to cut it down to 20km, wtf.
If you're gonna use that as a comparison, then DPS does become relevant.
Rockets and hams do vastly less damage than blasters, autocannons, and pulse lasers. For example a max skilled sacriledge does what? 450dps with 5 ham launchers? A max skilled deimos would do over 700 DPS, a 5 turret zealot/vaga would do 600+ dps.
The torp raven is very very close in terms of damage to other close range bs. Pulse geddon with faction MF deals around 1k-1.1k DPS? Same with tempest.
It works fine on the phoon anyways, considering the short rangedness of 425s.
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ArmyOfMe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:31:00 -
[32]
i honestly dont see any reason a high damage weapon like torps should have more then 25km range, it makes it pretty even with close range guns and the raven still has a lot of slots it can use for damage mods something other close range bs dont have
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AuroraStar
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 11:34:00 -
[33]
Shield Tank is your reason.
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AuroraStar
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:00:00 -
[34]
Edited by: AuroraStar on 13/10/2007 12:00:02
And raven needs to lose a low and get another med. So as to be able to fit a half decent tank.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:04:00 -
[35]
Originally by: AuroraStar
And raven needs to lose a low and get another med. So as to be able to fit a half decent tank.
That's what they did with the Golem 
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1|2|3 |
Inflexible
Rytiri Lva
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: AuroraStar
Edited by: AuroraStar on 13/10/2007 12:00:02
And raven needs to lose a low and get another med. So as to be able to fit a half decent tank.
It needs to lose one high and get one low to be be able to fit decent armor tank. (or get high slot version of tackling gear).
8th high slot on raven is complete waste :(
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Inflexible
Originally by: AuroraStar
Edited by: AuroraStar on 13/10/2007 12:00:02
And raven needs to lose a low and get another med. So as to be able to fit a half decent tank.
It needs to lose one high and get one low to be be able to fit decent armor tank. (or get high slot version of tackling gear).
8th high slot on raven is complete waste :(
3 x polycarbon rig and the raven turns like a cruiser and is still able to field a actteptable tank + mwd. as always leave the tackling to the ceptors:9
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AuroraStar
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Inflexible
Originally by: AuroraStar
Edited by: AuroraStar on 13/10/2007 12:00:02
And raven needs to lose a low and get another med. So as to be able to fit a half decent tank.
It needs to lose one high and get one low to be be able to fit decent armor tank. (or get high slot version of tackling gear).
8th high slot on raven is complete waste :(
Perhaps thatd be better :P But ppl would complain Im sure, moreso than if we lost a low slot. I for one would give up a low slot for a med. Though yes Id prefer to give up a high :)
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ArmyOfMe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:12:00 -
[39]
Originally by: d026
3 x polycarbon rig and the raven turns like a cruiser and is still able to field a actteptable tank + mwd. as always leave the tackling to the ceptors:9
im not a big fan of ships having to have rigs to do its job, imo rigs are there to give ships a little edge not to be able to do what it was intended to do
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AuroraStar
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: d026
3 x polycarbon rig and the raven turns like a cruiser and is still able to field a actteptable tank + mwd. as always leave the tackling to the ceptors:9
im not a big fan of ships having to have rigs to do its job, imo rigs are there to give ships a little edge not to be able to do what it was intended to do
Agreed.
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Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:16:00 -
[41]
Definately giving this a thumbs up. At the moment the dps roof with 3 bcs 2's is a joke compared to other races. Just what caldari need.
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c3rise
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: d026
3 x polycarbon rig and the raven turns like a cruiser and is still able to field a actteptable tank + mwd. as always leave the tackling to the ceptors:9
sorry for the sarcasm, but you can also put 3 powergrid rigs and be able to fit the raven with 8 highest dammage guns / launchers, while all other tier 2 Bs can fit all their highest dmg guns/launcher without any rigs
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: c3rise
Originally by: d026
3 x polycarbon rig and the raven turns like a cruiser and is still able to field a actteptable tank + mwd. as always leave the tackling to the ceptors:9
sorry for the sarcasm, but you can also put 3 powergrid rigs and be able to fit the raven with 8 highest dammage guns / launchers, while all other tier 2 Bs can fit all their highest dmg guns/launcher without any rigs
An apoc can't fit 8 t2 megabeams (let alone tachs).
A tempest can't even fit 6 t2 1400mm's (let alone fitting 2 more launchers).
So only a megathron can fit a full highend weapon rack without fitting mods.
So what was your point again?
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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IamBen
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:27:00 -
[44]
Edited by: IamBen on 13/10/2007 12:27:54
If I am reading this correctly, torpedoes are going to kick butt now! Faster ROF but less range! Thank you CCP! My uber missile skills will actually be useful!
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Bacci Galu
The Coalition Of Buccaneers
Mercenary Services
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Venec
I'm mostly concerned how this change will affect mission runners and ratters.
Most the good 0.0 angle spawns (seriphs, cerbs) dont come closer than 30 km...so ure ****ed in some regards.. i suppose t2 jav torps are the new flavor
Maker of thy sig
Yes i do make sigs, banners, corp logo's ect... |
Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Bacci Galu
Originally by: Venec
I'm mostly concerned how this change will affect mission runners and ratters.
Most the good 0.0 angle spawns (seriphs, cerbs) dont come closer than 30 km...so ure ****ed in some regards.. i suppose t2 jav torps are the new flavor
Guristas rats are gonna be a PITA to kill now though. Or will the BS rats also be limited to 30Km torps and have to come in close?
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.10.13 12:42:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Venec
I'm mostly concerned how this change will affect mission runners and ratters.
They get to use the long-range versions like every other goddamn race.
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Manthicore
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:09:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Malcanis
Guristas rats are gonna be a PITA to kill now though. Or will the BS rats also be limited to 30Km torps and have to come in close?
I think the cruise missile raven PVE setup will be the winner :)
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Kelron Queldine
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:17:00 -
[49]
I really can't be bothered reading a whole thread full of whines, but it looks to me like a Torp boost and Target Painter boost (admittedly the target painter boost is only an implied one due to the increased explosion radius) all in one. I (or EFT) worked out last night that a max skilled torp Raven gets 127km range, which seems ridiculous for what's supposed to be an unguided close range weapon, but to compensate, the DPS was way lower than for short range turrets.
So if this change happens, Torp DPS will be more in-line with the other races' short range weapons, and have decent range and the ability to choose damage type on top of that.
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Signatures are for the weak. |
suzy homemaker
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:21:00 -
[50]
Guristas BS like to orbit in the low 50km range.
All fine and dandy if they want to do this but they are going to have to rescript every single lvl 4 guristas mission.
or
Give a mid slot and increase agility on several shield tanked ships, Raven especially.
or
Adjust torp speed / flight that at BS 4 missile skills 4 they will hit 50km oribts.
Alternative
Give 3 different missile systems by size just like the guns. Trading range for damage as you move through the sizes.
Suzy
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Dragon Lord
Caldari
InQuest Ascension
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:50:00 -
[51]
Well for pve use jav torps they realy rock with these changes, dont use normal torps in pve after the changes as they are utterly useless.
For pvp these are great changes the dps a raven can dish out for 0-30kms is now nearly 1000 without drones, and if you switch to jav torps its close to 700dps and they hit to 130kms with good skills.
Overall its a big nerf to faction and officer siege launchers as you only use them for missions and they are now useless. But its a nice buff for t2 siege launchers and missle pvp
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Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:50:00 -
[52]
whats torp range nerf on a raven pls?
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Dragon Lord
Caldari
InQuest Ascension
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.13 13:59:00 -
[53]
Well before the nerf torps with max skills went 127kms, in sisi with max skills they go 30kms
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Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:08:00 -
[54]
The nerf on explosion radius is an inacceptable nerf.
I don't care since I don't use torps anymore but if torps have to be close range, which makes sense, they should have the same damage output than other close range weapons.
So, the damage increase to torps should be higher and the explosion velocity lowered instead of increased.
This change goes the right direction but chances are it's not final, it seems a bit wrong atm.
____________________
A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:38:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Incidentally, this is also a huge buff to the phoon. Now it can deal something like 800-900 DPS with a full 7 slot tank and a full 4 mids to tackle.
Nah, the Phoon doesn't have the CPU/PG to fit a proper tank, MWD, 2 target painter II's and 4 x Siege II, 4 x AC II ... But feel free to suggest fittings if you think otherwise (I've tried)
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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Letava
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: suzy homemaker
Guristas BS like to orbit in the low 50km range.
All fine and dandy if they want to do this but they are going to have to rescript every single lvl 4 guristas mission.
I have a suggestion: either use long range weapons or make your ship fast enough to get into range. Everyone else has to do it, why shouldn't you?
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suzy homemaker
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Posted - 2007.10.13 14:58:00 -
[57]
I believe the point is that now a raven has to give up 2 tanking slots for this change. AB and a TP. No MWD in mish deadspace.
Armor tanked ships give up no tank for for fitting modules to boost their speed or weapon auxillaries like webs.
So a shield tanker has to live with a 4 slot tank while the armor tanker is unchanged.
Overall point is this a pretty big change in several of the races battleships that render torps useless as a pve weapon for the average non max skilled character.
IMHO a weapon should not require you to have max skills to employ it in what are normal everyday encounters.
Suzy
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Letava
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.10.13 15:09:00 -
[58]
Ok, I'll admit I forgot about not being able to use MWD, but bear in mind that while you have to give up tank slots for mods like that, an armour tanker has to give up tank slots for damage mods and speed mods. I'd also like to point out that to the best of my knowledge, most people who use turret ships for missions use long range turrets.
I'll give you a little comparison for why Torp range needed to be brought down:
Raven - Max skills, 50% velocity bonus to torps, which are supposed to be the 'short range' missiles - 127km range, 619 DPS with 3 damage mods, 6 Siege launcher II, T1 torps. The downside is that they take time to reach the target.
Rokh - Max skills, 50% optimal bonus to hybrids. Using 8 x 425mm Railgun II, the longest range hybrid (which it needs fitting mods to fit 8 of) - 54km optimal, 30km falloff, 481 DPS with close range ammo. The downside is it actually has to track, can't change damage type, and while long range ammo boosts it 194km optimal, it loses a lot of DPS for that.
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Crax McGee
Silentium.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.13 15:13:00 -
[59]
the mwd cavalry ravens are gone! AGIAN! dam you ccp.. DAM YOU!
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suzy homemaker
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Posted - 2007.10.13 15:19:00 -
[60]
I dont disagree with range reduction, just thinking its a bit too big of a reduction.
PVE wise, yes tracking is a issue but so are defenders as the npc's version is acutually effective.
For comparison I would use though the Megathron. Caldari rail boats are notoriusly bad pve ships as the rail range bonus plays no real role in pve.
Too early to tell anyways, just hope it doesnt hit TQ in the current adjustments.
Suzy
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