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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:20:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Laboratus
I'd just like to ask. What is the problem the changes solve?
If it ain't broken, don't fix it...
Torps and Cruises basically being too similar I guess.
Or perhaps the Raven being a fairly worthless PvP ship, because of low damage, low maneuverability, and having to make some serious sacrifices to tanking to be able to fit key PvP mods.
What this does, is mean a 'full gank' raven will be able to put out some impressive amounts of damage at short range, but will be a glass cannon.
I approve of this change's general direction. IMO torps _should_ be shorter range, higher damage. The increased sig makes me a bit edgy though, but I still have hopes for them applying guided missile precision to _all_ missiles.
Oh, and it'd be really nice if I could use torps in my raven to shoot POSes still. But then, I guess you can't really use shortrange weapons on other races to do this either.
PvE is fine, as cruises work fine, and will continue to do so. There's really not much in at the moment anyway, as to how fast a cruise raven clears a mission, as opposed to a torp raven, simply due to the fact the cruises are more effective against the smaller ships.
My major reason for using torps whilst missioning, is because I like the explosions.
I'm broadly very happy about the direction of this change.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Ararius
EP0CH
Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:44:00 -
[182]
For the PvE side, I dont want too see npc ravens sitting at 50km spamming torps at me!
Im ugly, just look at my face!
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Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:54:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Gamesguy
I can fit t2 sieges fine in a pve setup, and javelin torps only cost 300 isk more/shot than regulars(which cost about 350).
The difference between Antimatter and Void L is about 400%, and that kind of ammo isn't even used for PVE - let's see how this plays out for missiles. Availability would be another issue.
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This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Dez Affinity
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 12:43:00 -
[184]
I'm just trying to fit up a setup in EFT to incorporate the new changes.
Things I need :
100mn MicroWarpDrive (1300 PG Avg.)
Heavy Capacitor Booster (1800 PG Avg.)
Target Painter (1 PG  )
6 Siege Missile Launcher IIs (9900 PG)
Raven has 11875 PG.
As you can see this doesn't add up to less than 12K and I haven't even bothered to fit some sort of tank yet. So what do I do? I fit a Reactor Control Unit. That leaves me with 600 PG to play with, I think I should fit another if I intend to have anything in the remaining slots. OK cool I now have 15.7k PG.
Let's fit an X-L SB II. Whoops looks like I can only fit 2 BCS II now. Need a Co-Processor in the last low slot. Anyway, with 3 slots to tank I managed to get 350 dps tanked with max skills and serious CPU issues. But at least my damage is good right?
Next attempt, armor tank! CPU is really frickin tight and PG also tight, but at least I can tank 200 DPS.
What I'm saying is although getting a damage boost is nice, the fact we have to either cut out 3 mid slots of an already slot intensive tank is not so nice. Did I also mention Raven has the lowest sig res of all the tier 2 BS, so having a sensor booster is quite important. Sucks to be a Raven pilot.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:01:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Dez Affinity
I'm just trying to fit up a setup in EFT to incorporate the new changes.
Things I need :
100mn MicroWarpDrive (1300 PG Avg.)
Heavy Capacitor Booster (1800 PG Avg.)
Target Painter (1 PG )
6 Siege Missile Launcher IIs (9900 PG)
Raven has 11875 PG.
As you can see this doesn't add up to less than 12K and I haven't even bothered to fit some sort of tank yet. So what do I do? I fit a Reactor Control Unit. That leaves me with 600 PG to play with, I think I should fit another if I intend to have anything in the remaining slots. OK cool I now have 15.7k PG.
Let's fit an X-L SB II. Whoops looks like I can only fit 2 BCS II now. Need a Co-Processor in the last low slot. Anyway, with 3 slots to tank I managed to get 350 dps tanked with max skills and serious CPU issues. But at least my damage is good right?
Next attempt, armor tank! CPU is really frickin tight and PG also tight, but at least I can tank 200 DPS.
What I'm saying is although getting a damage boost is nice, the fact we have to either cut out 3 mid slots of an already slot intensive tank is not so nice. Did I also mention Raven has the lowest sig res of all the tier 2 BS, so having a sensor booster is quite important. Sucks to be a Raven pilot.
the tardeoff is clearly dmg or tank.. i odnt have any problem with that. but i can unsertsand that you feel unconfortable flying paper tin.. but so far my raven setups dont allow a tank anyway.. so i highly appreciate this boost/nerf...
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Kelron Queldine
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:06:00 -
[186]
I know it's a new concept for Caldari players not to have a large tank and 3 damage mods, but most gank ships have to make do with a 4 slot tank.
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Vanilla Crazy Cake! |
ZenTex
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 13:24:00 -
[187]
Basically a good change. Caldari get their high dmg short range weapon. We all know rocket kessies can hurt, this is the BS version.
However, the range as stated here is way too low. It would make sense if not for th fact that caldari can't sacrifice anymore meds (PvP). In Fleets/gangs I have yet to see a MWD raven, and for a reason.
Gank for tank? tradeoff isn't worth it IMHO.In PvP already too many meds are used. Also, a raven is not only slow, but also slugish. Anyone will not only outrun you, but also outmanoeuver you. so swap a BCU for an I-stab, poof, more DPS lost.
Lets face it, caldari as they are now are not the race for short/med range high DPS weapons.
Will people adapt? I don't think so. Look at HAM's. Same theory, more DPS for less range. But noone uses them. I manufactured some hams some time ago and they sat on the on the market for 3 months at lowest price in the region. a 100 sold, the 9900 remaining timed out.
I myself desperately tried to find a use for them, but didn't manage to fit a cruiser/BC to get a target in HAM range, keep them there and hurt them without going down like a brick long before getting in range.
ATM I mainly use cruise missiles in PvP, atleast some of them get to the target before they warp/die. Torps are restricted to BC's/BS's as they are now even with TP's (slow as hell, doesn't take much of a speed fit on cruisers to outrun them).
I hope the DEV's take a good look at this before they make these torp changes permanent.
There's little a sledgehammer can't fix.
If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer.
If it's unfixable, blame CCP. :p
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Omnium Domitor
Caldari
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:26:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Akita T
Only on a ship with a missile range bonus (like the Raven, missile flight speed).
On unbonused ships, HAM range is identical to Torpedo range.
4 sec * 2250 m/sec = 9 km = 6 sec * 1500 m/sec
At max skills, 9km*1.5*1.5 = 20.25 km max range (but never ACTUALLY hit that far, more like 19.5 km or so tops)
On a Raven, L5 Caldari BS, yeah, you do get roughly 30km. But only on the Raven and nothing else.
Max skills on a Raven/Caracal/Flycatcher:
Flycatcher Rockets: 15.1875km (FT: 3 MV: 5062.5) Ok
Caracal HAMs: 30.375km (FT: 6 MV: 5062.5) 2x the distance of Rockets... not bad
Raven Torps: 30.375km (FT: 9 MV: 3375) Same as the damn HAMs on a caracal.
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Torps now fit the Rocket->HAM->Torp progression like LightMis->HvyMis->Cruise.
Not quite:
Current:()=Max Skill Modded []=Max Skill+Ship modded
Rocket FT:2(3) MV:2250(3375)[5062.5]=4500(10125)[15187.5]
HAM FT:4(6) MV:2250(3375)[5062.5]=9000(20250)[30375] (2x Rocket Range)
Torp FT:30(45) MV:1250(1875)[2812.5]=37500(84375)[126562.5] (sticks out like a sore thumb 4x HAM range rather than 2x)
Light FT:5(7.5) MV:3750(5625)[8437.5]=18750(42187.5)[63281.25]
Heavy FT:10(15) MV:3750(5625)[8437.5]=37500(84375)[126562.5] (2x Light Range)
Cruise FT:20(30) MV:3750(5625)[8437.5]=75000(168750)[253125] (2x Heavy Range)
SiSi:
Rocket FT:2(3) MV:2250(3375)[5062.5]=4500(10125)[15187.5]
HAM FT:4(6) MV:2250(3375)[5062.5]=9000(20250)[30375] (2x Rocket Range)
Torp FT:6(9) MV:1500(2250)[3375]=9000(20250)[30375] = HAM
To make it Identical to the Light>Heavy>Cruise progression the torp would need to be:
FT:8(12) MV:2250(3375)[5062.5]=18000(27000)[40500] (2x HAM Range)
With Rigs, the Raven would still be viable for PvE. Using max skill modded as base:
()=1x Rocket 2x Hydraulic []=2x Rocket 1x Hydraulic
SiSi:
Torps: FT:9(10.35)[11.7] MV:2250(4387.24)[3881.25]=20250(45407.94)[45410.62]*
Cruise: FT:30(34.5)[39] MV:5625(10968.10)[9703.12]=168750(378399.51)[378421.87]*
Inline with Light/Heavy/Cruise:
FT:12(14.49)[15.6] MV:3375(4387.2407882)[3881.25]=40500(63571.11)[60547.5]*
+Ship
FT:12(14.49)[15.6] MV:5062.5(6580.86)[5821.87]=40500(95356.67)[90821.25]*
However, to get torps to fit the damage progression from Rockets to HAMs, torp damage would have to changed from 450 to 400
*Speed and Range truncated after 0.01
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Tractormech
Caldari
Fortune's Fools
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Posted - 2007.10.14 14:46:00 -
[189]
"Now I need a MWD, no room for anything now"
Have people saying this ever even pvp'd before. Max scram range is 24km. New torp range will be around 30km. You can get away using the new torps without any speed mods at all. Not like a pvp raven ever had any tank at all before anyway.
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Gavin Darklighter
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.14 15:32:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Gavin Darklighter on 14/10/2007 15:34:48
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
So yeah, I'm guessing you guys saw the changes then :)
We just started messing around with this yesterday, and these changes should in fact not have been made public so soon preferably, as we're not done balancing them.
But you get the basic concept: shorter range, more damage.
Please reserve judgment on this until we've finalized (or at least improved) our design on torpedos.
Well I for one love the concept of short range uber damage torps, but I think increasing the explosion radius is the wrong way to nerf the "tracking".
What I would like to see is torps get an explosion radius of 320m2 (which is the size of the Typhoon, the smallest BS) but an explosion velocity of around 80m/s. With an 80m/s explosion velocity and Target Navigation Prediction V, you will hit for full damage on any BS moving slower than 160m/s.
Doing this would mean that Target Painters are not required for full damage agianst battleships, but at the same time an un-webbed BS with a speed mod would be able to escape most of the damage. Also, this would make torps ineffective agianst smaller fast ships unless they get webbed down (in which case guns can rip them apart too).
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Viqer Fell
Minmatar
Trinity Nova
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.14 15:50:00 -
[191]
Seems entirely counter-intuitive to me.
Surely if they were wanting a equivalent of rockets for bs then this should have been the cruise missiles.
Just seems to me that the torpedoes should be the long range bulky bombs and the cruise the shorter range more agile bringers of doom.
Click here to visit our site
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ZenTex
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 15:57:00 -
[192]
Now in (pvp) need atleast:
MWD, Web, painter, Sensor booster, Istab.
So even less space for a shield tank and dmg mods, and now cap will be more of an issue than before (Cap eating MWD, no slots for the obligatory cap recharger).
All that so a raven might get into range if the fight starts at range (sniper gatecamp anyone) and be able to fire a few torps before popping due to having no tank.
That and already having pathetic DPS ( maybe a bit more if torp dmg is increased) makes caldari even less viable in PvP apart from the scorp (primary) or Rokh (meh).
Or: use cruises and do even crappier dmg on BS's.
Yes, this is a whine. But a justified one.
Nerf Raven PvE abilities, go ahead, but the Raven is the laughing stock in PvP already due to slow missiles and poor DPS and needs a bit of a boost.
Was training railguns for my Rokh. As a wannabe PvPer I think I'll just go for the proven flavour of the year, Gallente, and get my mechanic skills up ASAP.
There's little a sledgehammer can't fix.
If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer.
If it's unfixable, blame CCP. :p
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:07:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:11:29
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:09:29
Originally by: ZenTex
Now in (pvp) need atleast:
MWD, Web, painter, Sensor booster, Istab.
Why on Earth are you putting a web on a Raven? 
The Istab certainly isn't needed either.
And the MWD is only essential for getting out of bubbles. You can warp to a tackler, and if the Jav torps end up with a range anything like that of Jav HAMs, you really won't have to worry about a target being out of range.
And your comments about HAMs further up are flat wrong. It sounds like your fits and tactics are horribly, horribly wrong... 
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ragewind
Caldari
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:25:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Dez Affinity
cleaver maths
that saves space and i fully agree wit what you say its blatantly obvious to any raven pilot that fitting on our ships can be limiting at the best. currently most torp ravens have a coproc fitted as standard and then when it comes down to grid we have that boosted by fitting mods as our only real cap recharger mods have built in PG bonuses.
then again this seems to be a problem with all caldari ships to be hard to fit cpu wise there are still some T2 fits for the pheonix that still need a co procesor to it guess we are just used to it
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:33:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:11:29
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:09:29
Originally by: ZenTex
Now in (pvp) need atleast:
MWD, Web, painter, Sensor booster, Istab.
Why on Earth are you putting a web on a Raven?
The Istab certainly isn't needed either.
And the MWD is only essential for getting out of bubbles. You can warp to a tackler, and if the Jav torps end up with a range anything like that of Jav HAMs, you really won't have to worry about a target being out of range.
And your comments about HAMs further up are flat wrong. It sounds like your fits and tactics are horribly, horribly wrong...
You use a web because target speed will cancel out your dps from missiles.
I could live with the decreased torp range in return for the higher damage. But, there should be lower fitting costs for torps.
Why not have 2 tiers of torp launchers (like guns).
Siege launchers= high cpu+grid, fast rof
Bombardment launcers= less cpu+grid, slower rof
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:38:00 -
[196]
i jsut chrunched some numbers and the new raven (rigged and without any tank whatsoever and ok a highly teoretical but non faction pure TII fitting) will be able to dish out FRIGGIN + 1300 DPS!
AND YOU CALL THIS A NERF?:)
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iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:47:00 -
[197]
Originally by: d026
i jsut chrunched some numbers and the new raven (rigged and without any tank whatsoever and ok a highly teoretical but non faction pure TII fitting) will be able to dish out FRIGGIN + 1300 DPS!
AND YOU CALL THIS A NERF?:)
you do 1200 in thron, and still got web, scramble, going 1km/s and have 40k of high resistance armor and plenty of hull
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BB
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Riddick Valer
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:48:00 -
[198]
It isn't a nerf, but please remember that a target's sig and velocity will reduce this dps...sometimes drastically.
Something with a sig radius of 400m will take 25% less damage.
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ZenTex
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:52:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:11:29
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/10/2007 16:09:29
Originally by: ZenTex
Now in (pvp) need atleast:
MWD, Web, painter, Sensor booster, Istab.
Why on Earth are you putting a web on a Raven?
The Istab certainly isn't needed either.
And the MWD is only essential for getting out of bubbles. You can warp to a tackler, and if the Jav torps end up with a range anything like that of Jav HAMs, you really won't have to worry about a target being out of range.
And your comments about HAMs further up are flat wrong. It sounds like your fits and tactics are horribly, horribly wrong...
The web was before in this thread. I guess I misread however why it was needed. I myself have used webs on a cruise raven with precision cruises and succesfully blown the crap out of unlucky speed fitted vaga's and other small crap.
Sofar My ravens did have a TP and sensor boosters fitted. If i felt really secure even a scram.
The istab: Getting in range is one. staying in range is another. The raven is one of the most sluggish BS's ingame and will be outmanoevred by any short/med range BS knowing the max range of torps.
Warping myself in range of a tackler? how exactly?
There's little a sledgehammer can't fix.
If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer.
If it's unfixable, blame CCP. :p
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.14 16:54:00 -
[200]
Originally by: iiOs
Originally by: d026
i jsut chrunched some numbers and the new raven (rigged and without any tank whatsoever and ok a highly teoretical but non faction pure TII fitting) will be able to dish out FRIGGIN + 1300 DPS!
AND YOU CALL THIS A NERF?:)
you do 1200 in thron, and still got web, scramble, going 1km/s and have 40k of high resistance armor and plenty of hull
my fit had mwd, injector, 2 x ew mods (damp/ecm) or scram + web , 2 x tp and still doing 1,3k dps
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Grim Vandal
Caldari
Burn Proof
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:09:00 -
[201]
I think that the esxplosion velocity of all missiles not just torps needs to be looked at like 1 year ago.
explosion velocity is the key factor as long as Destiny is as it is = crappy
btw. Destiny should be your next large project to look at after Trinity.
Until that, tweak the explosion velocity in conjuction with the sig resolution (dmg cloud).
Greetings Grim |
Dezzereth
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:35:00 -
[202]
This is a major nerf to the use of the Raven in PVE, especially at some missions where you need to deal lots of damage at higher mid range (Vengeance, and a few others where the NPC BSs stay at around 50km range).
And it won't make the Raven more (or less) good for PVP, the major issue being the explosion radius/velocity thing combined with the other attributes. Other ships rarely use Torps as I see it.
Raw DPS numbers say nothing, absolutely nothing, especially in this case.
All in all I would plea CCP to strongly reconsider this nerf (yes it is one). But as I see it, no matter how unliked these changes are, they will go through anyways. So better save your breath and enjoy the last days the useful Torp.
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Grim Vandal
Caldari
Burn Proof
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:40:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Dezzereth
This is a major nerf to the use of the Raven in PVE, especially at some missions where you need to deal lots of damage at higher mid range (Vengeance, and a few others where the NPC BSs stay at around 50km range).
And it won't make the Raven more (or less) good for PVP, the major issue being the explosion radius/velocity thing combined with the other attributes. Other ships rarely use Torps as I see it.
Raw DPS numbers say nothing, absolutely nothing, especially in this case.
All in all I would plea CCP to strongly reconsider this nerf (yes it is one). But as I see it, no matter how unliked these changes are, they will go through anyways. So better save your breath and enjoy the last days the useful Torp.
there should be no pve ship , due to that single reason I appreciate this change!
Greetings Grim |
Dezzereth
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:42:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Dezzereth on 14/10/2007 17:42:57
Originally by: Grim Vandal
there should be no pve ship , due to that single reason I appreciate this change!
Why not? we all need to make ISK, no matter if PVPler or PVEler.
At last the Raven had its usefulness. Now its even more niche.
Edit: .. more niche in PVP.
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Zenobite
Flying Under the Influence
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:51:00 -
[205]
What a pointless nerf, when was the last time anyone whined about torps being overpowered? They already have limited usefulness as it is.
I don't have any problem with the range>ROF, but why increase the explosion radius so large it will negate any benefit of the increased rof on the majority of targets.
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Kelron Queldine
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:47:00 -
[206]
Originally by: iiOs
Originally by: d026
i jsut chrunched some numbers and the new raven (rigged and without any tank whatsoever and ok a highly teoretical but non faction pure TII fitting) will be able to dish out FRIGGIN + 1300 DPS!
AND YOU CALL THIS A NERF?:)
you do 1200 in thron, and still got web, scramble, going 1km/s and have 40k of high resistance armor and plenty of hull
I got called a 'Quickfit PvPer' earlier in the thread, because I was throwing around numbers about the Raven when i have no experience of actually flying one. A ship I do have experience of flying is the Megathron, and to break the 40k armour mark you're talking about 3 1600mm plates and 3 T2 Trimark rigs. Along with the 3 mag stabs needed for your '1200 dps', it certainly doesn't have high resistances, and takes nearly 3 MWD cycles to reach full speed.
Of course, there are much better ways to fit it than simply raising the HP as high as you can, but if you want 'high resistance armour', you won't have anywhere near 40k of it.
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Vanilla Crazy Cake! |
Captain Plumbo
Caldari
NorCorp Enterprise
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:44:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Captain Plumbo on 14/10/2007 19:44:43
Originally by: ZenTex
...
Will people adapt? I don't think so. Look at HAM's. Same theory, more DPS for less range. But noone uses them. I manufactured some hams some time ago and they sat on the on the market for 3 months at lowest price in the region. a 100 sold, the 9900 remaining timed out.
I myself desperately tried to find a use for them, but didn't manage to fit a cruiser/BC to get a target in HAM range, keep them there and hurt them without going down like a brick long before getting in range.
...
They need to rework HAMs while they're at it imo, perhaps lower grid requirements or something. As it is now, HAMs needs 20 more grid than regular Heavies.
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Futureface01
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:53:00 -
[208]
So lets see:
PVP'ers : "Wow, awesome changes to Torpedos! Woohoo!"
Mission Runners : "Umm, WTF!"
I'm in the "Ummm, WTF!" category. To fit 2 target painters means 2 shield hardeners have to come off. To fit 2 target painters and an afterburner II means 2 Shield Hardeners and the Shield Amp have to come off.
A mission runner trying to use Torpedos will no longer have the tank to successfully complete Lvl 4 missions.
(lets debunk some standard responses right now, shall we)
--"Then bring a friend".... If it takes 2 to accomplish what 1 did before, its a 50% nerf to incoming isk and a brutal nerf.
--"Then use cruise!".... This still takes away yet another option from mission runners. Mission runners already are forced into a VERY limited selections of ships if your doing it seriously. Making Torpedos have a 27km range means a Raven Mission runner loses 3 medium slots (now occupied by 2 TPs and a AB2). Losing three slots would be too great a nerf, therefore Torpedos would be unusable in missions.
I doubt a level 4 can even be done in a standard raven using only 3 slots for hardening/boosting. Angels Extravaganza comes to mind. 3 resist types? Forget about it.... Rigs you say? Get real.
No matter how you slice it, if Torpedoes get changed to 27km, mission runners just got nerfed. Now instead of 3 viable ship configurations Raven/Torps, Raven/Cruise, Domi/Drones we have just 2 viable ship configurations.
--"Nuh uh! I do level 4s in an ibis!"... Go away.
--"But seriously, Command Ships can do level 4s"... Not as fast. So its an Isk/Hr nerf. Not to mention Command Ships take about 6 months of skills to fly. I can do missions today, if tommorow Im supposed to spend 6 months training something else to get back an ability I had today, then its a nerf.
CCP gives the world to their PVP'ers, I've come to accept that. But isnt it about time to throw mission runners a bone? On SOMETHING?
--"but.......Maruader ships!" Still waiting on proof that its a mission runner and not just a 0.0 rat boat. If it winds up a mission running ship superior to the 2 we already have, I'll be IMPRESSED.
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TradeUnion first
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:01:00 -
[209]
This is a big buff to the Raven versatility. Don't whine about the regular torpedoes, think about the new versatility of the t2 siege launchers - you can choose between short range, lots of damage and long range, high speed with still very good damage.
I think this is a buff.
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MindDragon
Caldari
The Flaming Sideburn's
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:10:00 -
[210]
Okay let's consider the buff topic for a moment for PvE missions:
Caldari Navy Torps go for about 5000 isk each
T2 Jav. or Rage torps (which nerf the ship's speed and actually get damaged easier on PvE missions so they do less damage) go for about 600isk a piece
T1 torps cost about 200isk or so for me to make. So I have to spend more to get the same amount of damage I used to get on T1 torps and at 5000 isk each it would cost about 5m isk or so to do a mission that pays 2m isk.
So tell me, how does this work again that this is a buff??
MD
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