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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Bacci Galu Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 05:50:00 - [1] Can someone confirm if CCP (and there lack of wisdom) are nerfing torps AGAIN ?? Maker of thy sig Yes i do make sigs, banners, corp logo's ect...
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.13 05:52:00 - [2] Since you asked so nicely...no. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:13:00 - [3] Yes they are. Range has been DRASTICALLY reduced on SiSi (to about 27km with amazing skills). It's a total absurd. CCP, please reconsider this.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:16:00 - [4] They nerfed them so hard, they also drastically increased the ROF on siege launchers at the same time (my typhoon had 7.8 ROF w/ siege II). I'd call it a torp change, actually.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:18:00 - [5] If this is true its just ******. Torps do NOT need to be nerfed. T2 Torps are already useless, now normal Torps will be useless as well? DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!**
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:25:00 - [6] Edited by: Myra2007 on 13/10/2007 06:25:46 Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated If this is true its just ********. Torps do NOT need to be nerfed. T2 Torps are already useless, now normal Torps will be useless as well? Do you actually understand what -25% ROF means?
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:29:00 - [7] WTF? I just trained Torps. Why the nerf? they are slow as all hell and only good for shooting stationary stuff.
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Calimor Yes they are. Range has been DRASTICALLY reduced on SiSi (to about 27km with amazing skills). It's a total absurd. CCP, please reconsider this. You might want to reconsider that if you have a look at the new rof of siege launchers, plz.
Dr Ming Mindworks	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:31:00 - [9] The RoF of Torp launchers was increased substantially. The speed of T1 torps was nudged up a little, but their flight time was drastically decreased. The explosion radius of T1 torps was increased. T2 torps have not had their stats changed. End result: T2 torps were buffed. T1 torps were changed, and got better in some aspects, and worse in others.
Helluin Caldari Stimulus	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Helluin on 13/10/2007 06:32:49 This is a huge boost to torpedoes. Their range gets brought in line with most of the other unguided missiles (see rockets, HAMs) but the damage gets drastically increased due to the ROF bonus. The only thing I am curious about is their attempt to make TP's required fitting for Ravens by increasing the explosion radius.
Tractormech Caldari Fortune's Fools	Posted - 2007.10.13 06:37:00 - [11] I like how people cry nerf nerf nerf at any change whatsoever even considered. If they were to change it to the way it is on SISI it is nothing but a boost. A huge one. How much bs on bs pvp occurs over the 30km range anyways? Do not say fleet battles, as missles are already useless for this situation. The only thing where it may be lessened is all the mission runners running around in torp ravens. Heaven forbid the raven gets less mission use. (nevermind cruises work just as well if not better most of the time) Basically they are giving torps a 25% damage increase.
ChimeraRouge Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.10.13 07:49:00 - [12] How does this affect mission runners who use torps in missions? I thought torps were better for missions than cruise.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.10.13 07:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Tractormech Basically they are giving torps a 25% damage increase. Against a standard BS (400m signature radius) it's a 0.6% damage increase due to the increased explosion radius. Only against tier 3 bs are this really a damage increase. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Serge Tahlon Gallente Templars of Space Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 08:22:00 - [14] i think for missions this would mean you acctually need to get in range. but once there the ROF increase will probably make up for the time you spent getting into optimal. same as every gunboat mission runner who needs to get into optimal. will try on the sisi now and see how it is.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 08:53:00 - [15] Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/10/2007 08:54:22 Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: Tractormech Basically they are giving torps a 25% damage increase. Against a standard BS (400m signature radius) it's a 0.6% damage increase due to the increased explosion radius. Only against tier 3 bs are this really a damage increase. Thats a ***** lie. Its called a target painter, you ever see a blasterboat without a web? Its the same idea. As for the OP, torps were drastically** buffed. A raven with faction torps now do in the neighborhood of 900+ DPS before drones. Its a massive damage increase.
Ciuci FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 08:55:00 - [16] just want to say ... hello blasterthrone say hello to my new friend :)
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/10/2007 10:11:02 Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Akita T Gotta' love the people crying "nerf" when this is a huge BOOST to torpedoes, alongside (finally) bringing them inline with the other short-range weapon systems. So, yeah, you maybe need a painter or two to get full damage potential, but you still deal more DPS even without any painter, and you get the option to INCREASE it even further with painters (besides, you don't even have to have any painter yourself, anybody else in the gang can have some). I think what worries most ppl isnt the range nerf, but the fact that they will now loose a lot of the tank on the raven Heavy Painter Drones. Just one gives you a 30% sig bonus, which is sufficient for tier2/tier3 BS. On a raven you can still launch 2 painter drones+ 2 mediums and a light. Although I'm unsure how it will work with bandwidth. very valid point, i totaly forgot about painter drones.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:26:00 - [18] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/10/2007 10:11:02 Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Akita T Gotta' love the people crying "nerf" when this is a huge BOOST to torpedoes, alongside (finally) bringing them inline with the other short-range weapon systems. So, yeah, you maybe need a painter or two to get full damage potential, but you still deal more DPS even without any painter, and you get the option to INCREASE it even further with painters (besides, you don't even have to have any painter yourself, anybody else in the gang can have some). I think what worries most ppl isnt the range nerf, but the fact that they will now loose a lot of the tank on the raven Heavy Painter Drones. Just one gives you a 30% sig bonus, which is sufficient for tier2/tier3 BS. 20% surely? Also, they are stacking nerfed. In any case, this seems to be a huge boost for target painters (minnie whining ftw) and a bit of a nerf to raven speed ratting (but they can still fit 3 x hydraulic bay thrusters). Right, I meant to say 20%, got it confused with webber drones. Its still a huge buff to pvp ravens though, now they can finally deal respectable damage at close range. Incidentally, this is also a huge buff to the phoon. Now it can deal something like 800-900 DPS with a full 7 slot tank and a full 4 mids to tackle.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:39:00 - [19] Well, TBFH, they did reduce the range a bit too much. They used 2-4-6 sec base flight time on rockets-HAMs-torps, which is all fine... until you look at torpedo flight speed and see it's not 2250 m/s base like rockets and HAMs, but barely 1500 m/s (used to be 1250, but come on, still far from enough). Overall, you end up with a torpedo that has identical range to a HAM (base 9km before anything... skills, rigs, implants or ship bonuses)... from 84+km (way overkill) to 20+km (seriously underpowered), I hate rollercoaster changes. A pertinent torpedo range would be 30km base (on the 'phoon... or 45km on maxskills Raven). That would mean EITHER * keep the new base 6 sec flight time and increase base torpedo flight speed to 2250 m/sec OR * keep the new base torpedo flight speed of 1500 m/sec and adjust base flight time to 9 sec _ 1\|2\|3
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Calimor Yes they are. Range has been DRASTICALLY reduced on SiSi (to about 27km with amazing skills). It's a total absurd. CCP, please reconsider this. You might want to reconsider that if you have a look at the new rof of siege launchers, plz. RoF is one thing, but the reduction in max range would be bad. sure, a reduced range, makes sense, they do get some crazy ranges on them right now, but basicly, they should fire further than heavy missiles, but not as far as cruise missiles (to make cruise missiles make sense). just a thought. ========================================== Iy please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Akita T Well, TBFH, they did reduce the range a bit too much. They used 2-4-6 sec base flight time on rockets-HAMs-torps, which is all fine... until you look at torpedo flight speed and see it's not 2250 m/s base like rockets and HAMs, but barely 1500 m/s (used to be 1250, but come on, still far from enough). Overall, you end up with a torpedo that has identical range to a HAM (base 9km before anything... skills, rigs, implants or ship bonuses)... from 84+km (way overkill) to 20+km (seriously underpowered), I hate rollercoaster changes. A pertinent torpedo range would be 30km base (on the 'phoon... or 45km on maxskills Raven). That would mean EITHER * keep the new base 6 sec flight time and increase base torpedo flight speed to 2250 m/sec OR * keep the new base torpedo flight speed of 1500 m/sec and adjust base flight time to 9 sec Agreed. Getting in that close with a Raven is playing to your opponents strengths instead of their weaknesses. You're still better off just getting in another ship.
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:48:00 - [22] A huge boost to torpedo DPS. And the caldari response? Another whine thread... And that is before anyone have even tried them =)
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:48:00 - [23] Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/10/2007 10:50:37 Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/10/2007 10:49:27 Originally by: Akita T Well, TBFH, they did reduce the range a bit too much. They used 2-4-6 sec base flight time on rockets-HAMs-torps, which is all fine... until you look at torpedo flight speed and see it's not 2250 m/s base like rockets and HAMs, but barely 1500 m/s (used to be 1250, but come on, still far from enough). Overall, you end up with a torpedo that has identical range to a HAM (base 9km before anything... skills, rigs, implants or ship bonuses)... from 84+km (way overkill) to 20+km (seriously underpowered), I hate rollercoaster changes. A pertinent torpedo range would be 30km base (on the 'phoon... or 45km on maxskills Raven). That would mean EITHER * keep the new base 6 sec flight time and increase base torpedo flight speed to 2250 m/sec OR * keep the new base torpedo flight speed of 1500 m/sec and adjust base flight time to 9 sec No, with 45km range torps the raven would outdamage the pulse geddon using scorch while using no cap for its weapon. In addition, with 3 missile velocity rigs the new torp can hit 50km range, and missile rigs are cheap as a hell. This current change already obsolete the maelstrom, the new raven is better than the AC maelstrom and tempest in every possible way. These are the numbers on a raven with 3 bcu. - Before : T1 torps = 619 dps to 127km @ 2813m/s, 400m exp radius 375m/s exp velocity CN torps = 711 dps to 127km @ 2813m/s, 400m exp radius 375m/s exp velocity Jav torps = 523 dps to 158km @ 8438m/s, 400m exp radius 750m/s exp velocity Rage torps = 743 dps to 34km @ 2250m/s, 600m exp radius 150m/s exp velocity - After : T1 torps = 823 dps to 30km @ 3375m/s, 530m exp radius 375m/s exp velocity CN torps = 946 dps to 30km @ 3375m/s, 530m exp radius 375m/s exp velocity Jav torps = 696 dps to 158km @ 8438m/s, 400m exp radius 750m/s exp velocity Rage torps = 988 dps to 34km @ 2250m/s, 600m exp radius 150m/s exp velocity
Neon Razor Caldari Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.10.13 10:54:00 - [24] and excuse to finally train caldari bs up to level 5 or hope that one of the tech 2 amarr BS's will have lots of missiles
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:04:00 - [25] Originally by: Iyanah Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: Calimor Yes they are. Range has been DRASTICALLY reduced on SiSi (to about 27km with amazing skills). It's a total absurd. CCP, please reconsider this. You might want to reconsider that if you have a look at the new rof of siege launchers, plz. RoF is one thing, but the reduction in max range would be bad. sure, a reduced range, makes sense, they do get some crazy ranges on them right now, but basicly, they should fire further than heavy missiles, but not as far as cruise missiles (to make cruise missiles make sense). just a thought. So the large model of the short range weapons should have more range than the long range medium model? Can I have my 25 KM range large blaster? Would gladly accept a reduction in damage. Speaking seriously a 27 KM max range can be a tad short (even if it almost max range with blaster, well in the second band of falloff) and for sure a bit more speed would be ok, but all cosidered it is not so bad a change. A short range weapon with 80+ km range with basic skills was a bit absurd.
Inflexible Rytiri Lva	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:09:00 - [26] I like this change.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Gamesguy stuff about DPS I wasn't talking DPS at all. And look at your posted range numbers a bit closer. You can't deny the fact T2 torps are quite the way they should be, range-wise (and damage-wise too) or do you ? Now, assuming the T2 torps are "just right"... let's look at rockets and HAMs a bit too. ALL Rage variants have a shorter range as corresponding T1. The fact T1 torps have a SHORTER range as T2 rage torps should be an indication they funked up something badly. T1 torps should get 30km reach and 45km from Raven, period. Wether you do 6x2250 or 9x1500, frankly I don't really care all that much (for the sake of balance though, 9x1500 would be advisable). _ 1\|2\|3
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:19:00 - [28] with the ammount of dps the raven will now get i would say a range of 20-25km sounds about right. i just hope they give the raven some more powergrid so it will be possible to fit a mwd on the damn thing
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:26:00 - [29] Short-range missiles are supposed to heavily out-range short-range weapons. Rockets go up to 10km, HAMs up to 20km, and that's with T1 (or faction) ammo. Now, a torpedo only reaching out to 20km too, just like a HAM (which by the way was balanced up in range recently), that's absurd. Doesn't matter the Raven has a +50% extra range bonus (making it 30km), other torpedo-using BSs don't have it, and 20km range of torps on a Typhoon is indeed absurd, no matter how you put it. A torpedo should go (from an unbonused ship) at least out to 30km. It used to go out to 84+km for chrissakes ! You don't have to cut it down to 20km, wtf. _ 1\|2\|3
AuroraStar RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:30:00 - [30] Edited by: AuroraStar on 13/10/2007 11:32:51 You all seem to forget that a raven tank sucks and getting in close isnt really what you want to do in one. Might be different on your triple rep blaster thron but for a raven staying at range was the key. I agree with the person with the seven of nine sig, 20km is just stupid. Edit : Rememeber ravens arnt the only ship that can use torps, and in no way should a ship BONUS be factored in when working out the range for a missile. Its like saying megathrons get a range distance boost lets reduce the range on guns so that they shoot exactly the same distance as without the range bonus. (And all other ships w.o bonus get screwed).

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