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Nighthawk dps vs other Commands

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Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:57:00 - [31] Quote: You cant fit full rack oh heavies, dual repper, cap booster, mwd and gang mod on an absolution either. Or you just have no clue about the other command ships. Hmmm. Max skills and 6 HP II, gang mod, named MWD, named cap booster, dual T2 rep on Abso takes 2093 PG, over the max of 1968. So yes, it doesn't fit, and no-one would expect it to. But it doesn't bloody take 3 T2 RCUs to fit either. Clue?
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Uhm with high skills a nighthawk can reach around 767dps. How many vessels you encounter can tank this? Very few. I dont know what people are smoking but whats this whine about it not having dps? Maybe because you can only get this kind of damage with maxed out skills and fitting FIVE damage mods? Applying the same crazy skill/fitting scenario to an astarte brings that to more than 1100 dps by the way. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Incantare Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:46:00 - [33] And that's only for kinetic.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.19 00:59:00 - [34] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Uhm with high skills a nighthawk can reach around 767dps. How many vessels you encounter can tank this? Very few. I dont know what people are smoking but whats this whine about it not having dps? Maybe because you can only get this kind of damage with maxed out skills and fitting FIVE damage mods? Applying the same crazy skill/fitting scenario to an astarte brings that to more than 1100 dps by the way. No all fittings for damage are made with 3dmg mods for all races. Its standard to use 3 for "gank" fits.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ogul Maybe because you can only get this kind of damage with maxed out skills and fitting FIVE damage mods? Applying the same crazy skill/fitting scenario to an astarte brings that to more than 1100 dps by the way. No all fittings for damage are made with 3dmg mods for all races. Its standard to use 3 for "gank" fits. In that case your missile dps will not go above 620. Fitting a heavy neutron blaster in the last high slot may polish the numbers but isn't "standard" for gank fits either. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.19 08:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Ogul Maybe because you can only get this kind of damage with maxed out skills and fitting FIVE damage mods? Applying the same crazy skill/fitting scenario to an astarte brings that to more than 1100 dps by the way. No all fittings for damage are made with 3dmg mods for all races. Its standard to use 3 for "gank" fits. In that case your missile dps will not go above 620. Fitting a heavy neutron blaster in the last high slot may polish the numbers but isn't "standard" for gank fits either. Its 692 DPS with 3 BCU and firing CN terror missiles with 5 hobgoblins. Regardless, NH has significantly superior tank than the other CS(especially astarte) while fielding this dps..
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ogul In that case your missile dps will not go above 620. Fitting a heavy neutron blaster in the last high slot may polish the numbers but isn't "standard" for gank fits either. Its 692 DPS with 3 BCU and firing CN terror missiles with 5 hobgoblins. Regardless, NH has significantly superior tank than the other CS(especially astarte) while fielding this dps.. Actually 620 is already with terror rage missiles. I am not arguing the Nighthawk's dps is too low/high or anything, it's just that 770 is pure fantasy and looking at the ship's bonuses it becomes clear that high dps is not what the ship was designed for. And if you are willing to give up a bit of damage you can get an Astarte that still does more damage, tanks as well and can web/scram or ewar. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:03:00 - [38] And which has a lower range. HAMs reach up to 20k with t1 and can get ranges of 70k with t2 javs. The astarte has to move far more to apply its dps.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.19 10:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Aramendel And which has a lower range. HAMs reach up to 20k with t1 and can get ranges of 70k with t2 javs. ... which would be a much more sensible setup than close range gank. And the 80k range of javelin HAMs is just plain crazy compared to the 40k range of T2 heavy missiles. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.19 11:30:00 - [40] to the op... erm... what? CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Zerode	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:39:00 - [41] A faction fitted semipassive NH is absolutely awsome for lvl4 missions, 833dps 24/7 omnitank and 693dps is realy good. Tanked for 2 damage types it's tank is pure rediculess Pimp the ships
darkmancer	Posted - 2007.10.20 11:37:00 - [42] The Nighthawk in no way sucks. Both it's tank is excellent, and range is good, which almost make up for its below average dps. I don't think its the ship that need a bonus. I think it's more long range missiles (standards, heavy, cruise) which could do with a v.minor damage boost. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.20 14:17:00 - [43] You guys have pretty awesome comand ships and you still whine? Missiles hit no matter what, missiles don't have tracking issues, even faster targets have to be carefull while engaging a NH its not just, warp->shoot->boom headshot, you don't even do that with a drake, let alone against a NH. _____________________________________ Hello, i like to shoot random people.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.20 14:59:00 - [44] Quote: Missiles hit no matter what Starting a post with rubbish like that is not a good way to be taken seriously...
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.20 15:12:00 - [45] Originally by: Gypsio III Quote: Missiles hit no matter what Starting a post with rubbish like that is not a good way to be taken seriously... Care to elaborate oh wisest of all station jockeys?I assume that your endless lexic in space combat and the combined fact that you just ate a full 25.5 volume of THE SPACE COMBAT ENCYCLOPEDIA will enlighten all of us on the basics of what happens when you fight a decently fitted missile boat. _____________________________________ Hello, i like to shoot random people.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.20 15:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Dionisius Care to elaborate oh wisest of all station jockeys?I assume that your endless lexic in space combat and the combined fact that you just ate a full 25.5 volume of THE SPACE COMBAT ENCYCLOPEDIA will enlighten all of us on the basics of what happens when you fight a decently fitted missile boat. He could be pointing out that saying things like Originally by: Dionisius Missiles hit no matter what, missiles don't have tracking issues while at the same time being technically true is just cheap trolling. I could respond now by pointing out that guns don't have flight time or explosion radius/velocity, but I guess you know that already. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
wictro	Posted - 2007.10.20 16:54:00 - [47] missiles wont hit targets that travel faster than they do. missiles get reduction to damage according to the size of target, compared to explosion radius of the missile. missiles get reduction to damage according to the speed of target, compared to explosion velocity. missiles range is kinda pointless besides gang/fleet or pve. range also increases delay, and thats a flaw also.
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.20 18:08:00 - [48] Edited by: Dionisius on 20/10/2007 18:10:36 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Dionisius Care to elaborate oh wisest of all station jockeys?I assume that your endless lexic in space combat and the combined fact that you just ate a full 25.5 volume of THE SPACE COMBAT ENCYCLOPEDIA will enlighten all of us on the basics of what happens when you fight a decently fitted missile boat. He could be pointing out that saying things like Originally by: Dionisius Missiles hit no matter what, missiles don't have tracking issues while at the same time being technically true is just cheap trolling. I could respond now by pointing out that guns don't have flight time or explosion radius/velocity, but I guess you know that already. Now this is the part were i tell you to turn your brain on and stop making yourself look like a ****. Missiles as far as i'm concerned have trouble hitting, Ceptors Dictors Some Recons Some HACS Now unless you are sniping, or flying any of the above ships you mostly don't have either, tracking or radious issues. Vagabonds can fly away from a Nighthawks missiles, cool, but no damage, ceptors, no damage, dictors, no damage, and even these ships can fall for a pilot that counts the cycle of shooting properly instead of just hammering down f1-f5. Now add to that bit some precision missiles and you do hurt, drones, and actually ships that are speed tanking, they either have to stay and die or fly away. Comprende einstein? _____________________________________ Hello, i like to shoot random people.**
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.20 18:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Dionisius Now this is the part were i tell you to turn your brain on and stop making yourself look like a ******. Missiles as far as i'm concerned have trouble hitting, Ceptors Dictors Some Recons Some HACS Now unless you are sniping, or flying any of the above ships you mostly don't have either, tracking or radious issues. Vagabonds can fly away from a Nighthawks missiles, cool, but no damage, ceptors, no damage, dictors, no damage, and even these ships can fall for a pilot that counts the cycle of shooting properly instead of just hammering down f1-f5. Now add to that bit some precision missiles and you do hurt, drones, and actually ships that are speed tanking, they either have to stay and die or fly away. Comprende einstein? Actually I understand perfectly. The ad hominem attacks, the pointless number of unrelated facts and the general bile you like to spew. It all adds up to a trollpost well done, congratulations. Just go ahead and keep spreading the word of the always-hitting no-tracking-issues uberweapon that are missiles, there are enough people who will believe that kind of nonsense. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.20 19:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Dionisius Now this is the part were i tell you to turn your brain on and stop making yourself look like a ****. Missiles as far as i'm concerned have trouble hitting, Ceptors Dictors Some Recons Some HACS Now unless you are sniping, or flying any of the above ships you mostly don't have either, tracking or radious issues. Vagabonds can fly away from a Nighthawks missiles, cool, but no damage, ceptors, no damage, dictors, no damage, and even these ships can fall for a pilot that counts the cycle of shooting properly instead of just hammering down f1-f5. Now add to that bit some precision missiles and you do hurt, drones, and actually ships that are speed tanking, they either have to stay and die or fly away. Comprende einstein? Actually I understand perfectly. The ad hominem attacks, the pointless number of unrelated facts and the general bile you like to spew. It all adds up to a trollpost well done, congratulations. Just go ahead and keep spreading the word of the always-hitting no-tracking-issues uberweapon that are missiles, there are enough people who will believe that kind of nonsense. Actually you started the insults there bud and i just responded according to your level. Now forget that this char is gallente, i happen to have a caldari one, so i pretty much know the BS you are spreading here about the nighthawk, hell even missiles in general. I just gave you practicall examples of situations on wich you whine about the ship and simply forget to look at your own inability to deal with circumstances, instead you gave... nothing. In other words, if you weren't so limited and narrowminded you would not be whining about a perfectly valid and balanced ship. Try to be more polite next time and don't bother insulting me again, your are not worth another reply on the same tone. _____________________________________ Hello, i like to shoot random people.**
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.20 20:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Dionisius Actually you started the insults there bud and i just responded according to your level. Where? Originally by: Dionisius Now forget that this char is gallente, i happen to have a caldari one, so i pretty much know the BS you are spreading here about the nighthawk, hell even missiles in general. I couldn't care less about your character's race, but please remind me what "BS" I said about the nighthawk or missiles in general. Originally by: Dionisius I just gave you practicall examples of situations on wich you whine about the ship and simply forget to look at your own inability to deal with circumstances, instead you gave... nothing. In other words, if you weren't so limited and narrowminded you would not be whining about a perfectly valid and balanced ship. Oh please, by all means: show me the whine! Originally by: Dionisius Try to be more polite next time and don't bother insulting me again, your are not worth another reply on the same tone. I really do now know what to say... You start calling people ******s and telling them to turn their brains on and then you expect them to be "more polite"? Maybe I am just too limited and narrowminded to understand that kind of attitude. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Cha Jeng	Posted - 2007.10.20 21:21:00 - [52] Oh my god you caldari people whine all day. A fully fitted out Astarte for DPS has a range of what, like 3km? An takes cap boosters to even hope to run everything to tank that much dps. Yeah you can't gank people with a NH, but you really don't have to worry all that much about being ganked either, as it is tough as hell, and does quite good damage. Caldari are long range burst dps. Yes they don't do as much pure damage as a Astarte, but you can change your damage type <yes I know about the kinetic bonus>, and you have much more available range to fight. If you are just learning that Caldari aren't god at 1v1 you need to wake up. Hell you don't even need a lock to fight if you have fof missiles. The ship is very versitile, and if you are unable to take advantage of this, why not just fly a BS like everyone else who can't understand why people fly T2 ships. Oh and the precision bonus makes your point about smaller ships much less valid.
Fehnrail Caldari Colossus Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.20 22:17:00 - [53] Originally by: Cha Jeng Oh my god you caldari people whine all day. A fully fitted out Astarte for DPS has a range of what, like 3km? An takes cap boosters to even hope to run everything to tank that much dps. Yeah you can't gank people with a NH, but you really don't have to worry all that much about being ganked either, as it is tough as hell, and does quite good damage. Caldari are long range burst dps. Yes they don't do as much pure damage as a Astarte, but you can change your damage type <yes I know about the kinetic bonus>, and you have much more available range to fight. If you are just learning that Caldari aren't god at 1v1 you need to wake up. Hell you don't even need a lock to fight if you have fof missiles. The ship is very versitile, and if you are unable to take advantage of this, why not just fly a BS like everyone else who can't understand why people fly T2 ships. Oh and the precision bonus makes your point about smaller ships much less valid. It's like every patently untrue thing about Caldari got rolled into one noob post. Absolutely amazing. Adding on to the topic: one more thing Nighthawk really needs is Drake's PG. ...I am a part of all that I have met, Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' Shines that untravell'd world, whose margin fades For ever and for ever as I move...
Raham Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e	Posted - 2007.10.21 00:05:00 - [54] All of this about nighthawks having 700+ dps is crazy. Maybe it's theoretically possible with quickfit, but it sure as hell doesn't work that way in the real game. If you want to fit HAMs (which I don't have too much experience with) you have to kill your tank by either adding PDUs instead of SPRs, or fitting less extenders. It also can't move anywhere fast, unless you want to kill your tank even more with an MWD. So there you have a low damage, bad tanked, non-tackling version of an astarte. With heavy missiles, the MAX damage that I can pump out is about 375 damage. This is with rapid fire 5, command ship 4, 2 BCU IIs and caldari navy scourges. Its possible that this could hit as high as 450, with CS 5 and implants, but still is nowhere near 750+. All that said, nighthawk still kicks ass, though it would be much better with the kin missile bonus switched to all damage types
ColetteLehtola Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.21 00:51:00 - [55] Everyone goes on and on about T2 javs and precisions can kill fast ships and small frigs.. And I'll ask as many others have. Why in space should you bring out a 300mil? ship just to kill those supports, when the job could be done with a cruiser.. NH and even caldari should somewhat get revamped in a small manner tbh. We do are versatile no question about that. But people that tend to make others believe that missiles are an imba weapon system due to no decrease in damage what so ever are wrong. There was someone who did point out that the missiles to loose damage. Yes the javs and precision missiles can hit targets that go below ~4900m/s allthough they won't inflict alot of damage due to explosion velocity. Well back to the NH, it can tank (in EFT) something like ~900raw dps, allthough an astarte can spew out around ~900raw dps so that is +-0. Then I think the asterte indeed can tank the NH's 627 raw dps from the HAMS and the t2 drones (CN terrors). So by this comparison the Astarte>Nighthawk in both tanking and dps, and it could aswell scram and web the NH.(Only 1dmg mod on Astarte and 2xMARt2 I don't know if someone else got other numbers but these are standard t2 modules (used the DG large shield booster on the NH fitting, allthough with a large t2 booster it would have tanked ~750raw dps) I'm tired so if this dosn't make sence you all know why.. ...Where's your god now?
Verlaine Glariant The Seventh Ring YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.21 05:26:00 - [56] I agree that a new launcher should be added to the Nighthawk. Either that or make a T2 Drake. No one can deny that Nighthawk has the worst DPS amongst all field command ships. This must be fixed, and I hope CCP will do it in the upcoming expansion... or maybe a patch. Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.21 06:25:00 - [57] Originally by: Raham SPRs I think i know why you lost all your space. Anyway, 554 from heavies and 668 from HAMs.
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.10.21 06:37:00 - [58] Edited by: Transcendant One on 21/10/2007 06:43:15 I think it could use a 7th launcher, but more urgently a pg buff. The precision bonus could use some looking at as well. Though I'm not suggesting all three be changed, the nigthawk could use something. Killing enemy support is all well and good but Caldari already has many other ships that can fill that role (better) while the other races field command ships can fill more interesting roles that justify their training time and cost.
Talio ZomB	Posted - 2007.10.21 07:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Gypsio III You can get 756 DPS out of a NH, with max skills (ha), drones and 3% implants, and still fit a solid tank. You won't have much mobility, but getting in range isn't a problem thanks to Javs. and what fitting would that be??? cuz I only have spec 5 to go before max skills I have 5% to HAM dmg, 3% to ROF and 4 CN BCS I cant get 756 dps, more like 640 (I'll edit later with the exact value) or so using CN ammo, and rage is only a tad higher at a sacrifice to range and hit quality or u refering to an estamel fit that the every day pee bod has lying about??
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.21 09:28:00 - [60] Originally by: Verlaine Glariant I agree that a new launcher should be added to the Nighthawk. Either that or make a T2 Drake. No one can deny that Nighthawk has the worst DPS amongst all field command ships. This must be fixed, and I hope CCP will do it in the upcoming expansion... or maybe a patch. Sure and lets also remove 300dps from its tank too so it gets inline with other commandship. Agreed.

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