Originally by: DarQ Knight

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With all the people opposed to this, CCP also needs to remember, most capital pilots have 2 if not 3 accounts.

Also, every capital pilot might not be a forum-typed person and may not even post.

So Balance the numbers out here, if 25% of the people posting would quit the game over this. Thats potentially 50% of the population of the thread now due to multipal accounts.

Take into account the guys that just arent post'ers. Theres another 5% , multiply that thats 10% more.

So your are "potentially" gonna lose 60% of characters over 2 years old.

Now if you want to go even deeper... Think about some people that are logging in, dreaming of the day they can have a carrier, read this thread and think....What the hell am I working toward now? Is there any ship I really want to fly once I get my skills up.

If CCP wants to stay in business they need to back off capital ships for a while and come up with some more Constructive ways to make them BETTER not worse.

-DarQ

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Originally by: Ahistaja

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Originally by: Robet Katrix

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About 2-3 Months ago I was flying my carrier and i got caught.

we had a 15 man IAC gang coming through 49-u. (this was shortly after we had lost sedith's aeon) we only had about 7 in gang, 2 command ships a inty or two and something else. we used a claymore as bait figuring he could tank them until i exited warp and got remote reps on him.

Plan fell apart. i intiated warp early but claymore died as i locked him. the other 2 inties died as inties tend to do and it quickly became a chimera and an Eos vs. a 15 man gang. With only shield transfers i couldn't keep the Eos alive forever, he died after we had killed a phoon a rapier and something else because of his webs + my drones.

Now im trapped. 13 hostiles (more incoming from IAC territory) holding me in place a blasted caracal dampening me and no support anywheres close.

I have a good tank and they dont ahve much DPS so im survivng for the minute. i drop 12 t2 light drones (twice) but kill them with my own faction smartbombs. third time i managed to get them out and not kill them and they auto-aggro a cruiser. i wait a minute and figure hes probly tanking them. Recall them try mediums which auto aggro on an interceptor. recall them. I MANAGE TO LOCK a battlecruiser who gets in close. drop 3 web drones and 9 heavies. put my warp disruptor on him. they shoot my heavy drones down. i launch fighters. by this point hes out of warp disruptor range and all of a sudden i have lost all my fighters for 3 minutes while he takes them on a ride.

their support is continuing to grow.

i eventually get my fighters back and switch to sentries. sentries autoaggro something and pop it. im so happy ;p. they then shoot something else but i dont know what. it says their fighting so i let them do their thing.

they were attacking the damp caracal! yay. he warps out. im locking **** now. start shooting at their dictor with sentries he out-tracks them. try to switch. sentries are out of range. activate smartbombs and try to kill them so i can launch heavies and web drones. arazu just came in. im screwed. damp caracal is back now too.

wait 5 minutes under more fire tank is still holding. drop heavies and let them run loose.

10 minutes later friendly fleet comes to save me.

now.

with your changes what kind of defence do you think 5 drones would offer me vs. the 12 i had before?

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Hello I'm from MC and refuting the claim of carriers being undue WTFPWNmobiles by pointing out that I was killed by a gang of 15 hostiles, while only taking out some of them.

By the way, while a number of people are saying a carrier should be able to take on half a dozen battleships solo for costing ~2 billion, it would only be fair if faction fitted, 2+ billion Machariels, Vindicators, CNRs and such could do the same. (And could go 1:1 against carriers).

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Originally by: DarQ Knight

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With all the people opposed to this, CCP also needs to remember, most capital pilots have 2 if not 3 accounts.

Also, every capital pilot might not be a forum-typed person and may not even post.

So Balance the numbers out here, if 25% of the people posting would quit the game over this. Thats potentially 50% of the population of the thread now due to multipal accounts.

Take into account the guys that just arent post'ers. Theres another 5% , multiply that thats 10% more.

So your are "potentially" gonna lose 60% of characters over 2 years old.

Now if you want to go even deeper... Think about some people that are logging in, dreaming of the day they can have a carrier, read this thread and think....What the hell am I working toward now? Is there any ship I really want to fly once I get my skills up.

If CCP wants to stay in business they need to back off capital ships for a while and come up with some more Constructive ways to make them BETTER not worse.

-DarQ

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Originally by: Ahistaja

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By the way, while a number of people are saying a carrier should be able to take on half a dozen battleships solo for costing ~2 billion, it would only be fair if faction fitted, 2+ billion Machariels, Vindicators, CNRs and such could do the same. (And could go 1:1 against carriers).

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Originally by: jokerb

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Ill conceived.
unnecessary.
Unwanted.

Please step away from this idea it is not welcome. Many people have spent YEARS, that is correct YEARS, training a carrier pilot. To only have you change them, their roles to which you have pigeon holed them into on a whim seems un-wise. Decide where you want carriers 2-3 years from now, if you don't know well then no need to tamper. Take into consideration that people have been training for expected ship role A. only to have Ship role Z forced upon them. They are neither interested in role z nor have trained for it. Create a tier 2 carrier if you want these changes implemented. Lets not arbitrarily change the ships that are out currently. They are not overpowered. Mom's die regularly now, and carriers die so often no one even blinks. If this is a lag issue well you need to A. state that as such B. Find other solutions then nerfing a class of ships that take such long investments of time and money. In closing I would like to remind CCP that many of its members have gone through this type of major change before and came here because of it(NGE anyone?) learn the lesson. The ships are not overpowered but this nerf is completely over-powered.

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Originally by: Steini OFSI

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The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.

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Originally by: Vegeta

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Edited by: Vegeta on 21/10/2007 15:32:42

Absolute failure of a solution.

Bombs
With bombs, you attempted to create an anti-blob tool. You did not succeed and nobody uses bombs... get back to work.


Insurance
Motherships are fine as they are. I may be slightly biased because I fly one, but the recent nerfs which hit titans the hardest were not easy on mom pilots either. Notice the recent trends in mothership deaths.

Your problem is not with the usability of the ships, but the lack of penalty when they die. Notice how motherships and titans have slowly been withdrawn from direct 0.0 conflicts after the bubble changes (took some people longer to figure out than others). This is because the penalty for losing one is high.

Remove insurance from ships that die in 0.0. Remove insurance from ships that die while criminally flagged. Make capital ship losses matter and people won't use them so carelessly. I doubt you realize on how many levels this is beneficial for the game.

Insurance is the number one reason for inflation and by far Eve's biggest ISK well. Capital ships are not the problem here, insurance is.


Local
Removing local will create fear of the unknown and people will be less confident to bring out their big ships. Show only those in (0.0) local who have recently spoken. This will also help your cloaking/logging NPCer problem.


Capital Lag
Hordes of motherships and carriers, each with 10-20 fighters out, creates massive lag. Solve this using the same method you originally used for drones. Quality over quantity. Make fighters tougher and let us have less of them. Compensate by giving an overall increase in DPS and HP (many small > few big).

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Originally by: Spike 68

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1) carriers/moms have enough micromanaging to do trying to keep their gang mates alive and would rather not assign 4 groups of fighters after a target.

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Originally by: jokerb

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Ill conceived.
unnecessary.
Unwanted.

Please step away from this idea it is not welcome. Many people have spent YEARS, that is correct YEARS, training a carrier pilot. To only have you change them, their roles to which you have pigeon holed them into on a whim seems un-wise. Decide where you want carriers 2-3 years from now, if you don't know well then no need to tamper. Take into consideration that people have been training for expected ship role A. only to have Ship role Z forced upon them. They are neither interested in role z nor have trained for it. Create a tier 2 carrier if you want these changes implemented. Lets not arbitrarily change the ships that are out currently. They are not overpowered. Mom's die regularly now, and carriers die so often no one even blinks. If this is a lag issue well you need to A. state that as such B. Find other solutions then nerfing a class of ships that take such long investments of time and money. In closing I would like to remind CCP that many of its members have gone through this type of major change before and came here because of it(NGE anyone?) learn the lesson. The ships are not overpowered but this nerf is completely over-powered.

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Originally by: DarQ Knight

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So Balance the numbers out here, if 25% of the people posting would quit the game over this. (..)

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Originally by: ArmyOfMe

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Originally by: Pallidum Treponema

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what he said

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Originally by: Steini OFSI

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The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.

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Originally by: Blade Gunner

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I think many pilots may be missing the bigger picture here. Zulu must have been the one who sent the "We are sorry for your loss" mails. Now we enter the territory of two scenarios:

1. The dev team do not and did not want him/ her and have tasked him with a poison challis in the hope that he realises you can be hated more than in your previous role combined with being held responsible for the cancelled capital ships accounts that will surely follow the farce that will follow these changes if implemented.

2. It was Zulu's idea and he/ she clearly has never logged into tranq, engaged in any large scale territory battle, waited twenty minutes for your screen fighter deployment in a systemn with 700+ combatants fighting for victory. Only to improve matters by twisting the game mechanics to ensure caps and supercaps must be blobbed to serve any viable fighting contribution.

Either way an incredibly ill conceived idea, based upon a well concieved principal. Outstanding CCP the ***** suicide squad admits defeat in your presence.

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Originally by: Karanth

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Wimps play empire. Real men play in 0.0. Hardcore masochists live out in drone space.

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Originally by: Ahistaja

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By the way, while a number of people are saying a carrier should be able to take on half a dozen battleships solo for costing ~2 billion, it would only be fair if faction fitted, 2+ billion Machariels, Vindicators, CNRs and such could do the same. (And could go 1:1 against carriers).

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