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Pran Chole	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:38:00 - [1] Dear CCP, We just wanted to say thank you for all the wonderful things you've done for us over the years. We wouldn't be where we are today without your continued support! Here are a few of the high points that have had the biggest impact for us: GUI We learned a great deal from you here and we strive to reach the same pinnacle of achievement you have. The mouse manufacturers haven't been this happy since Diablo II. We were good at wearing out the left button with Diablo II, but never attained the level of mastery that you guys clearly have over the right mouse button. The customizable GUI of World of Warcraft alone has swayed many of your customers. We can't thank you enough for your shoddy workmanship in this area. I think if you tried a little harder you could eliminate the keyboard requirement entirely. Thank you for neglecting the very interface for so long! Documentation Now, we admit, releasing the World of Warcraft with a game manual that cited features that weren't implemented for years was bad form, but you guys took it to the next level. We never thought of abstaining from manuals entirely, let alone omitting online documentation completely. We lost track of how many of your trial account users became our paying customers simply because they could figure the game out. New player Experience We're glad your tutorial is unbelievably long and tedious. I can't imagine how we would have grown had you taken the time to simplify the early game experience for your users. Insurmountable Training Time Your skill training system scared us a bit there in the beginning. Would the ability to train skills while not playing prevent us from capturing so much of your customer base? It would seem so at first, but when a newbie takes one look at that 300 day plan to get a capital ship? That 90 day plan to fly a T2 cruiser? They ran towards us and we welcomed them with open arms. Astronomical Ship Prices Say nothing of the intimidating prices of the tech II ships and items. You scared us a bit with Invention there. The prices of T2 items dropped so drastically you had us worried. Those absurd monopolies you and a few of your close friends had over the T2 market had us sleeping like babies at night. We were worried a bit there. But we feel much better now with the prices of Bombs, fighters and Tech II battleships. Those six figure price tags are anti-sirens for newbies and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Trust & Favoritism We want to personally thank T20 for what he's done to destroy trust in CCP. Not to mention the Internal Affairs oversight that allowed a dev blog to be posted about a single player corp. We couldn't believe that - in the same post - you both extolled your even handedness and gave special treatment to a player corp owned, operated and now publicly acknowledged to be full of CCP employees. Without this complete lack of trust we could not have added so many mature players to our playerbase. Thanks! Lag Your unsharded server universe initially frightened us. We were worried that you had something that we could not hope to match with a player base the size of ours. But we've been reassured by it's demonstrated lack of scalability. A single node crash bringing down the whole server? Fleet battles where the worst enemy is lag? Dying before the game finishes loading? We could not have asked for such performance.
Pran Chole	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:39:00 - [2] Overpopulation Centers We realized that having most of your players in one place would be problematic, so we took steps to spread them out and it worked beautifully. Even Teldrassil has people in it most of the time. Linking the auction houses between the capital cities was an elegant solution to our overconcentrated player problems. We were afraid that, on seeing us solve the problem in just a few months you guys up at the top of the world world implement a similar solution to resolve the lagtraps that are Jita, Motsu, Rens and Saila. Thankfully, thus far your attempts have been largely ineffectual. We hope you continue to implement only semi-effective solutions to combat these problems so that more and more of your customers become exclusively our customers. Unbalanced Races We strived very hard to make sure that World of Warcraft was playable in all areas by all classes roughly equally well. We would like to thank you for not being as careful. The complete dominance of Caldari specializing players and caldari ships in missions is a great boon to our bank accounts. We welcome all those Amarr players to our servers with open arms. And let's not forget all those disheartened players that spent months specializing in drone skills only to find out that using them in missions is costly at best, and frequently suicidal. Drone aggro warms our hearts! Say nothing of the exercise in frustration that is your drone-UI. We mastered pet control in beta, our confidence was indeed bolstered by the fact that four years have gone by and you have not yet done it. Inane Features Your developer's obsession with new code and lack of supervision has made us very confident that your market share will never threaten ours and we thank you. Heat? Ambulation? Bombs? Wonderful impediments to sucess! We thank you for seeing to these things first rather than fixing the myridad severe problems with EVE. Our userbase has never grown faster. And one easy-win feature that all players could benefit from remains collecting dust on the drawing table. We hope you never implement a skill training queue! After all, CCP, EVE belongs to you, not your players. And you don't need skill queues since you're encouraged, no required to log in at work. Sincerely, Blizzard
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:41:00 - [3] Cheese?
Transcendant One	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:42:00 - [4] Amusing. Though you make no mention of all the good things eve has going for it, but yeah some worthy points in there.
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:43:00 - [5] You forgot to diss the website, which is so amateurish Parker Brothers would have been ashamed of it in 1992. Special mention for a profanity filter so stupid it actually filters the word 'sa***uard' -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
UPS Truck	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Transcendant One Amusing. Though you make no mention of all the good things eve has going for it Give it a few weeks.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:45:00 - [7] Can I have all of your WoW characters? So I can burn them. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
adfnr Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:45:00 - [8] Edited by: adfnr on 22/10/2007 19:46:57 I don't think this guy has any stuff he can give me.... or wait... just gimme the 5,000 ISK. ...SERIOUSLY........ elves n stuff :\| ____________________ The "Change ALL Ammo"-button
Darken Two Gallente Pure Vitriol	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:48:00 - [9] Leave now....and don't bother coming back. What a bloody waste of bandwidth. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:49:00 - [10] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 22/10/2007 19:49:32 CCP has the better game concept and Blizzard has the better implementation. The sad part is that in the last year the core problems with the game like the UI and lag don't seem to have been improved in the least. Supposedly they have a need for speed initiative and a new drone UI in the works but they've put out more information about ambulation....it gets irritating to say the least.

Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:50:00 - [11] Dear Lorde man, create a blog and dump this lunacy there
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 22/10/2007 19:49:32 CCP has the better game concept and Blizzard has the better implementation. The sad part is that in the last year the core problems with the game like the UI and lag don't seem to have been improved in the least. Supposedly they have a need for speed initiative and a new drone UI in the works but they've put out more information about ambulation....it gets irritating to say the least. Dood, thats a big sig.
Garrik Doran Nova Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:54:00 - [13] Oh no one disses Amarr. It's a sexy race despite drawbacks. I should let a fedo fester in your cofee and cast you into the slave pits for that jab. Why specialize when i can fly everything!
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Daelorn Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 22/10/2007 19:49:32 CCP has the better game concept and Blizzard has the better implementation. The sad part is that in the last year the core problems with the game like the UI and lag don't seem to have been improved in the least. Supposedly they have a need for speed initiative and a new drone UI in the works but they've put out more information about ambulation....it gets irritating to say the least. Dood, thats a big sig. It breaks an impressive number of CCP's rules! That will sure get those devs to listen! ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:55:00 - [15] I giggled.
Terex193 Amarr Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:04:00 - [16] the cake is a lie? snip Sig contains inappropriate words. - hutch O come on its Censored! A dev called me a Forum Warrior :)
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:08:00 - [17] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 22/10/2007 20:09:54 Never mind all the other rampant idiocy by the OP, but did he really complain about not having to use the keyboard as much in Eve as in WoW? I've played other MMO's, and durr hold down the arrow key to move durr hit the same pattern of f-keys repeatedly for every enemy fought.... come on. Mouse rules.
Faye Valerii Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:15:00 - [18] It's funny 'cause it's true. Sometimes I'm amazed at how some small infuriating and easily fixed GLARING issues get put on the backburner for literally years on end. In the meanwhile valuable code monkey time is spent on imo useless things such as heat. On the other hand EVE has many redeeming qualities or I'd have stopped playing a long time ago. But it's good to see my main annoyances explained so eloquently : )
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:17:00 - [19] WTS: sarcasm detectors, starting at 29,99! Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:20:00 - [20] Dear Blizzard, Thankyou for your kind words of support we're delighted that you recognise so many of our unique features. We're even more delighted at the increasing number of WOW players that (having become nigh on comatose grinding goblins) have come looking for a more 'challenging game' and found Eve Online - many vowing never to go back! In addition we're lucky to have on our forums an instanced* retort to any nubby comments to get rid of pesky whinging morons - thats right; Go back to WOW! All the best from your buddies in EVE. * See what I did there C. - sig designer - eve mail Low Sec Idea

Ironass Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:22:00 - [21] oh dear god... please go hardcore raiding for 2years and come back and dare say that again. You can't fool me, you have NOT been radiing for over a year. De-sync Online... =(
osahar	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:22:00 - [22] Sad, but true! CCP has lot to learn from Blizzard.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:24:00 - [23] [ 2007.10.22 14:10:46 ] (combat) CCP's Lack of Perspective hit's CCP's foot, wrecking for 342401.07 USD. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Melor Rend	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:26:00 - [24] this thread is full of fail.... epic fail! WoW is -> that way don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:31:00 - [25] Its a lot more original than the standard whine, I laughed. +1
Deanna Nuchi	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:36:00 - [26] He is pretty much spot on about some of the issues EVE has. EVE is special though, regardless of its many problems, people will continue to play, more and more people (ok, loads more accounts) will start up. He did forget to mention some of EVEs 'SPECIAL' players, a more demented and stupid bunch I have never seen in any MMO ever... Devs should patent whatever it is that has made EVE so much more addictive than other MMOs, although I'm not sure they know either
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:38:00 - [27] errr, and epic loot in wow is not expensive??? what's you point in ships costing lots of money??? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Jevnikar	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:38:00 - [28] Blizzard guys would never have writen smth like that, mostly cus generation playing eve doesnt conflict much with wow or the gametype. rgr oh lock the thread before this goes to far click click...
citizen amarr33sd3g4	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:45:00 - [29] He reminds me of me before I realized why I did not play wow in the first place.
Cyberflayer Vagabonds Unincorporated	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:45:00 - [30] Dear Blizzard, Thanks for taking all our pansies who can't adapt to issues blown out of proportion by their egocentrism, and those who can't accept flaws along with remarkable gameplay and galactic socioeconomic ballet. It's really gone a long way towards making EVE a better game. Except all those whiners keep coming back for some reason...maybe they do care after all. - Blog Below

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Cyberflayer Dear Blizzard, Thanks for taking all our pansies who can't adapt to issues blown out of proportion by their egocentrism, and those who can't accept flaws along with remarkable gameplay and galactic socioeconomic ballet. It's really gone a long way towards making EVE a better game. Except all those whiners keep coming back for some reason...maybe they do care after all. love that sig, I got to read up! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Frug Zenithal Harvest BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:47:00 - [32] The first few points are good. It's too bad you have to start whining about your sad little gripes and destroy your own credibility. "insurmountable training time", "astronomical ship prices" and even another idiotic whine about t20. Stop posting. 3/10 for effort. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Kvaell Minmatar Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:47:00 - [33] I found a person posting this and I think it's appropriate to use it now. [ ] IBDS [ ] IBTL [ ] Can I have your stuff? [x] Go back to WoW. [x] Hello Kitty >>> That way. [ ] It's a Templar, an Amarr fighter. [x] STFU [x] Post with your main [ ] . [ ] Signed! [ ] Bump [x] /fail [ ] (Kitten thumbnail) [ ] No one cares That should cover it.
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:51:00 - [34] Unbalanced Races We strived very hard to make sure that World of Warcraft was playable in all areas by all classes roughly equally well. We would like to thank you for not being as careful. The complete dominance of Caldari specializing players and caldari ships in missions is a great boon to our bank accounts. We welcome all those Amarr players to our servers with open arms. And let's not forget all those disheartened players that spent months specializing in drone skills only to find out that using them in missions is costly at best, and frequently suicidal. Drone aggro warms our hearts! Say nothing of the exercise in frustration that is your drone-UI. We mastered pet control in beta, our confidence was indeed bolstered by the fact that four years have gone by and you have not yet done it. Blizzard Funny, I'm Caldari with all level 5 caldari, cruiser, b.s. level 5 in most all missle skills. but I fly Ammar command ships and Mimitar Recons and can't stand to fly caldari ships.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Reverend Revelator You forgot to diss the website, which is so amateurish Parker Brothers would have been ashamed of it in 1992. Special mention for a profanity filter so stupid it actually filters the word 'sa*uard' By all means allow me! Website** Thanks for your unnavigable, uninformative website that is so closely tied to the game database that when the game servers go down so does your entire site(!). Thank you for not providing anything anywhere near as cool or useful as the armory. Thank you for defaulting to alts. Thank you for filtering regular words. Thank you for hiding all the useful stuff like API keys. Thank your logging me out every 20 minutes. I miss anything? I haven't played WoW in a long time. Unfortunately I still have many friends that won't shut up about it. Including my roommate. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Terex193 the cake is a lie? The cake is a lie. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:35:00 - [37] Fantastic post Pran. Please add: - storyline in the game - mission excitment - so called 10 vs 1 pvp - ready access to the most dangerous area (zerozero) - exploration Hello Kitty >> overthere, can I have your stuff, adapt or die and other random intellectual observations (with Beavis and Butt-Head giggle) here:
citizen amarr33sd3g4	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:43:00 - [38] This person is probably someone who bought 1 month and instead of enjoying the game started reading all the whines on the forums instead.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:43:00 - [39] I lol'd.. You should make this a weekly series Pran(Tarminic?).. Everyone needs a giggle now and then.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:52:00 - [40] Originally by: Calprimus - mission excitment Trying to active tank in a mission in Saila on a Sunday isn't enough excitement for ya? -- Support fixing the EVE UI

annab Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:57:00 - [41] Three months is not enough time to get a proper look at eve. You havenÆt even left the noob corp yet. Have you even gone lower than the 1.0 system you started in? Tried playing in a gang, PVPed, low sec? GUI while a changeable one would be nice it really is not on my want list at the moment. Walking on stations however is. Sorry but documentation part is just plan wrong. Look at the nice tab marked Player Guide been there since I've been playing. Also the disk version had a pdf on there. The tutorials are long but eve has no take it slowly weÆll hold your hand let you take baby steps. You enter the game with the possiblity of being kill in the first ten seconds. You can choose not to do the tutorial. The market is run by the players unlike Wow when you die you loss that ship and any implants. You don't wake up with all your stuff. You have to buy it again. That allows the players to set their own prices and create supply and demand like a real market. The training times are not that bad and it allows the players to choose or change their profession. While with low learning skills your training will take a longer time. Wow does give almost instant levelling while you are online killing npcs to level up. Eve however trains 24/7 on or off so if you play wow 24/7 yes your level faster but if your on a lot less then in eve you will learn faster. I have a job therefore I play eve a lot less than I use to so the skills training works out better for me. Yes ccp has had a few devs break the rules while sad. We now have a player run oversight committee. WOW doesn't have one while our devs can be now be found out can WOWs? Unlike most companies CCP came out with their cheating I would bet top dollar most would not have said a thing and swept it under the carpet. Just like our nice banks do with online freud. What was the write off last year 10 to 20 billion pounds. I'm sure EVE has not killed anyone yet. "In June 2005 it was reported that a child had died due to neglect by her World of Warcraft-addicted parents in Korea" The only real lag I have ever has was joining in 300+ player battle something I very much doubt youÆve done and going to jita at rush hour. Mind you I like the fact the server are up more than down unlike wow which could be down for days before they could be assed to fix it. Also eve is on one server while wow is on many. I know for a fact that wow lags just as much as eve does. Have you sorted out the law suit yet? ccp can claim they havenÆt stolen others work. Amarr have there problems however with high skills and know how they are useful. They are very useful in fleets and gangs but you wouldnÆt know that. Try going with a corp go to low sec. Has blizzard stop charging for upgrades yet unlike EVEs upgrade which have a huge price of zero. Ps I donÆt think you are a person working for blizzard. Just like I don't work for CCP.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus I lol'd.. You should make this a weekly series Pran(Tarminic?).. Everyone needs a giggle now and then.. Sadly, this one was more popular than my latest efford. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 million SP in Forum Warfare Originally by: CCP Wrangler Booooo!!! Tarminic sux!!!
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Pran Chole Insurmountable Training Time It's not insurmountable, you're just impatient. /Ben
Krows Unified Refining Federation Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:32:00 - [44] oh dear how did this get here i am not good with computer? What I say here... does not reflect on my corp or alliance.
Baleur Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:39:00 - [45] Originally by: osahar Sad, but true! CCP has lot to learn from Blizzard. In what way? A redicolus level cap reachable after a few days, after which the entire game ends? Craptastic equipment that everyone else wears? lvl 19 and 29 etc stuff costing 500% more than it is worth? WoW is something i will never go back to, no matter how much my 2 ladyfriends whine at me. "ooh space is so booring, come back to wow! lets hunt in feralas!" ------------------------- This post represents my entire corporation's views and opinions.
Shiner BockBeer Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:41:00 - [46] given the disparity between Eve's and WoW's subscription numbers, I count it highly unlikely that Blizzard would even notice former Eve players. And seriously, stop whining. This game is tough, adapt or die.
Atavachron	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:42:00 - [47] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 22/10/2007 19:49:32 CCP has the better game concept and Blizzard has the better implementation. The sad part is that in the last year the core problems with the game like the UI and lag don't seem to have been improved in the least. Supposedly they have a need for speed initiative and a new drone UI in the works but they've put out more information about ambulation....it gets irritating to say the least. I agree with this.
Yerik Locke Caldari The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:51:00 - [48] Edited by: Yerik Locke on 22/10/2007 22:51:19 I will attack only several of the many points posted here. Eve is tough. Eve is gritty. Eve has a tough learning curve, and it's hard to rise up among the rest. This is why Eve is Eve. Stop trying to change this.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 22/10/2007 19:49:32 CCP has the better game concept and Blizzard has the better implementation. The sad part is that in the last year the core problems with the game like the UI and lag don't seem to have been improved in the least. But hey, CCP also has the biggest mouth when they announce how fast, how stable and how shiny EVE will be some day (Real Soon Now(tm)). "...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007)
Riese Blecja Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:01:00 - [50] Edited by: Riese Blecja on 22/10/2007 23:01:28 Originally by: Pran Chole Dear CCP, I'm pretty sure this is talking to a brick wall, but let's deal with these one at a time shall we? Quote: GUI A customizable interface for EVE is a can of worms the size of Antarctica. Even in a non-competitive WoW, certain GUI mods could give some players such a ridiculous advantage in engaging content over people who didn't have such mods (and either didn't know where to find them, couldn't install them for whatever reason, said mods weren't made public, or what have you) that eventually Blizzard was forced to integrate such mods into their interface. Never mind the hooks into the client the customizable GUI gives - we have enough problems with trojans and keyloggers as it stands. In a competitive game like EVE the GUI needs to be kept consistent for all players or the result is chaos. As far as right-clicking goes, YMMV. I'm used to it and like it because I come from a Homeworld background. Quote: Documentation Omit documentation completely? Are you incapable of reading? It's a bit dated, granted, but the essentials are there and there's tons of documentation in-game now, as well. Quote: New player Experience The tutorial is long because there is an unfathomable amount of ground to cover for the new player. The WoW tutorials are nice and short because the entire game is "click monster, bash, get loot, talk to dude, click monster." The EVE tutorial has to cover combat, market manipulation, ship fitting, chat management, insurance, CONCORD, skill training, inventory management, refining... and that's just to get a player started. The EVE tutorial has to be long because there's a lot more to the game. Not only that, but this is contradictory. You complain about the lack of documentation but then you complain that the tutorials are comprehensive? What? Quote: Insurmountable Training Time And while you're training for Titans or whatever the heck you can hop in a T1 Frigate, fit a web and a point, and cause as much damage as a battleship. You do not need a super blinged out ship to make a difference in EVE and I wish people would stop thinking this way. Yes those guys in Ishtars or Absolutions or whatever are intimidating, but your T1 Frigate can stop their escape, prevent them from firing, or suck them dry. And your ship costs as much as his ammunition. There are no (well, few) weak ships; only pilots who don't know how to maximize their effectiveness. And what about if you need to take a break? Not if you want to, but if you have a month-long family emergency or need to focus on work/college/etc. for a few months? By then your WoW friends have passed you by and can't help you with content anymore. Whereas you can take a month-long break from EVE and come back to find that you can fly HACs or that you're halfway to Dreadnoughts. The EVE skill system has drawbacks, but getting a new toy after a break is the best feeling you can imagine. Quote: Astronomical Ship Prices Quite simply, get out of Empire and look for real ways to make money. Just last night I made something on the order of 150 million ISK, and hell, in a way I'm a low earner. Even HACs, BSes and Command Ships aren't expensive if you know how to get access to proper resources and don't just suck Veldspar all day. Even in my mission ho days, though, I never had trouble keeping myself in BSes. Quote: Trust & Favoritism Well, only so much can be said in defense here. Yes, it is a problem, but CCP is dealing with it and coming from the guys arguably most screwed over by it, they are getting better. They aren't going to let the game go to the socks over favoritism, EVE is CCP's baby. Of course I also have to wonder about how much quiet favoritism you never hear about in WoW due to favoritism not mattering as much in a non-competitive environment...

Terail Zoqial	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:02:00 - [51] Unfortunately you're not not the reason why CCP created eve, also, if you read the occasional dev blog you may learn a bit why thing happen, don't happen as well as a myriad of other things. There are so many ignorant whiners and trolls on these boards it's quite sad really. If eve sucks so badly why the hell do you pay money every month just to upset yourself?. GUI is fine, it's done me well for 4 years thanks Documentation may lack in some key areas, but if you don't have the IQ to work things out, ask or know where to look, then you probably need to play something a tad easier. Like pong. NPE is a tad boring, I preffered to dive into eve and learn the ropes. It gave me a sense of accomplishment and the feeling of being in a whole new world was pretty nifty. Training time..If you're a noob and want a dreadnought straight away then you deserve the shock which is the training time imho. Anyhoo's, whilst training said ships you will need to learn many ship classes which give you a greater understanding of combat dynamics. That is good. Astronomical ship prices...you kids have never had it so good. When I started there were shuttles, frigs, cruisers, bs's and indy's. T2 prices have dropped dramatically and you could always train up for ionvention. Trust & Favoritism - Get the hell over it already. Lag...think about the limitations of modern technology, CCP wanting to keep their customers, business pride and all. Do you really think they want to fail as a company?. Overpopulation Centers... this is due to players, P L A Y E R S. Remote agents would aleviate things but jita will always be jita. Unbalanced Races...meh Inane Features...As stated above, you are not the sole reason CCP exists. I'm quite looking forward to ambulation, not too bothered with bombs but CCP are still working on those afaik. As ststed about a billion times, CCP is made up of various divisions, each one works on 1 aspect of eve.
TimMc Skiddies of Doom	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:15:00 - [52] Originally by: osahar Sad, but true! CCP has lot to learn from Blizzard. What? like how to never change your game? or how to have crap pvp? or how to make a complete grindy game? or a game full of 13 year olds and men dressing in female elves clothing? Seriously, I pray that CCP never contemplates becoming like Blizzard... besides Blizzards overbearing polish that goes into their games. Go back to WoW, or better yet go play Runescape.
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:19:00 - [53] Originally by: Kvaell I found a person posting this and I think it's appropriate to use it now. [ ] IBDS [ ] IBTL [ ] Can I have your stuff? [x] Go back to WoW. [x] Hello Kitty >>> That way. [ ] It's a Templar, an Amarr fighter. [x] STFU [x] Post with your main [ ] . [ ] Signed! [ ] Bump [x] /fail [ ] (Kitten thumbnail) [ ] No one cares That should cover it. This post wins..
Riese Blecja Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:20:00 - [54] Edited by: Riese Blecja on 22/10/2007 23:21:20 Quote: Lag Yes the lag monster gets bad in really big fleet fights (and Jita). But what about Ironforge in the old days? Or what happens when, say, 100 Horde invade Stormwind and 100 Alliance come to oppose them? Guess what happens - it's the exact same grid loading issues that a typical GBC/RSF fleet fight faces. The instanced battlegrounds were as much to hide the inadequacy of the WoW server hardware in large-scale combat as it was anything else. We all complain about lag, but at times I really have to wonder just how much we can expect from CCP. There are really only so many practical solutions that can be thrown at an issue, and when you pile six hundred players into a single area for whatever reason, how much can CCP really be expected to do that doesn't involve bankrupting the company? Quote: Overpopulation Centers Bull. Bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap bullcrap. There is *absolutely not a blasted thing* keeping people in Jita or Motsu or anywhere. You can put an item up for sale anywhere and due to the way regional markets work it will sell. The players are the ones who cause overpopulation issues in this game and it's annoying that more people don't get the hint and start to sell stuff outside Jita and spread the market around a little. There is absolutely nothing forcing you to go to Jita or Motsu or anywhere. Look around a bit for your ships, your guns, whatever. Don't be a lemming. Quote: Unbalanced Races Ahahahahahaha. Yes clearly drones and Amarr ships only have use in missions and don't have any use in PvP combat, nor can a smart player use guns to their benefit in missions. I'm sorry, there's really no way to respond intelligently to this as you haven't experienced entire swaths of the game to realize just how wrong this statement is. Quote: Inane Features Heat was essential to the destruction of the Mercenary Coalition titan. Ambulation will add a whole new level of immersiveness to EVE, it's something a lot of people have wanted for years and it isn't like artists can spend time correcting code issues. Bombs... well, OK, two out of three isn't bad. Seriously, without the constant addition of new features EVE would have died a long time ago. EVE lives by becoming more robust. I doubt you know what a jump bridge is, but it's possibly the single best thing CCP ever added to the game, and they didn't need to spend the time coding it... but they did. Some new features enter the game a little pear-shaped, but without new abilities and new stuff, EVE would die very quickly. Sincerely, Riese Blecja/SpaceDrake Longtime EVE player edit: darn you people breaking up my nice two-part post :doom:
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:27:00 - [55] Ahhh... I see that we have successfully discouraged another WoW player from coming on over to the harsher side of gaming because it hurt his head to much. SUCCESS!! or... horror of horrors, they decided to stay and play Eve anyway and constantly barrage us with 10 whines a day about how Eve sucks. --------------
whopper Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:33:00 - [56] ah! what would eve be without the whining. I love it! gimme more -whopper
dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:17:00 - [57] you will never get a faction spawn again.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:30:00 - [58] CCP do make some bonehead moves from time to time, (current one is the mom/carrier idea)however, they are still a good company. Stop being so negative, in fact go play WoW, you're sarcasm is not funny at all. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Giamilton Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.23 02:22:00 - [59] Jita is Jita because of market forces. It has a ton of inertia, the sellers sell there because the volume of people guarantees large numbers of sales. The buyers buy there because the competition and supply keep prices down. One way would be for large suppliers to have an incentive to go to another station. Like they could announce stations that have duty free shops that would enable the seller to save money on fees without skills or standing and the buyer to save on fees as well. Something needs to move the people and it would take a number of large suppliers moving somewhere else and getting the traffic to follow. The money is in Jita both to make and save that's going to be hard to stop.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.23 02:37:00 - [60] If ever there was a thread that screamed for a "Go back to WoW!" post, this would definitely be the one. If you don't like it, don't play it. Either way, we don't wanna hear it.

Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:04:00 - [61] Dear CCP, Thank you for introducing Darwinism in the MMORPG world. have a nice day. Grimpak long time eve-player and multi-million voices in tha head. --- planetary interaction idea!
Pudnucker Boennerup Banden	Posted - 2007.10.23 04:32:00 - [62] I have spent years studying linguistics, and I feel qualified to offer a general rejoinder to the OP in a language he will understand: DUM DER DAH DUM DUM DUM DERR 1) The GUI is essentially fine as it is. Obviously improvements can be made but CCP have better things to do at the moment. And custom GUIs have no place in Eve. 2-4) These points are moot, stupid, have no value and are ergo not worth responding to. 5) Noobs don't need HACs, Capitals or T2 BSes, because they're noobs, and by definition will be lacking both the ISK and Skills to use these ship types. I shouldn't have had to point that out But hey - the OP is in SWA, 3 months and 1 day old, obviously with bratty attitude a la Veruca Salt from Roald Dahl's classic: I want it now now now wah wah boohoo stamp feet etc. I'll do you a favour and call a Wahhmbulance to spoonfeed you on your way out the door. Also: If you can't afford a HAC at today's rock-bottom prices then you suck and need to L2P Eve. 6) The t20 & BoB scandal is old news. If you're still crapping on about it... Well, let's just say that I'm reminded of someone clutching desperately at anything they can as they slide deeper into the stagnating quagmire of their own pseudo-intellect. 7) I don't get hit by lag very often at all, which is kind of funny because I live approximately 8000 Kilometres from the Eve Servers and my connection is bounced to 4 different countries, eh? If you have a big problem with Lag you shouldn't be exposing yourself to a situation whereby lagging or disconnection is bound to happen. So, avoid Jita, Motsu, Saila and large battles and you won't have a problem. I'm reminded of a tard grabbing a hot pan and then crying for hours over the burn with a shocked expression. Deficient in so many faculties 8) People are responsible for this, not CCP. Seriously: What is wrong with you? 9) I fly practically all Amarr ships exclusively. Amarr puts spunk in my junk. Love to all those Amarr spec guys and here's a 40 for them that ain't bangin' no more. If you can't play as Amarr and do well out of it then you suck and should seriously quit Eve and never come back. Also, if you can't use drones properly in a mission of all things then you need to discover the advantages of being an observant and attentive individual. Helps you out in the long run, y'know? 10) The only thing "inane" as you so incorrectly label those features is Bombs, which suck. In closing, I'd like to say I don't want your cheap ****ty loot when you leave, crying, to go back to playing WoW.
Aridia Parker Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.23 05:28:00 - [63] Just some facts on WoW on the mentioned points: - customizable GUI: Yeah it's cool and actually wow can't be really played without the addons because the basic version just is too basic. And also what do players in WoW? They install tons of addons which makes their clients laggy and instable. - Lag Spots: Even with the linked auction house people still where mostly in the same spot. With the addon it's even worse. - Lag: Yeap eve has a serious problem in fleet battles. BUT wow had even troubles when 40 people entered a dungeon. It lagged like hell. So much for the great instancing and sharding. -------------------- No signature needed.
Inner Demon	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:04:00 - [64] Originally by: Pran Chole Ramble, ramble, moan Can I have your stuff?
Yann Xonogoth Gallente Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:35:00 - [65] WoW is a nice MMO from level 1-69. At level 70 it's the crappiest thing I've ever played, pointless, an insult to our intelligence... As someone posted in this thread already: WoW transform players into grinding goblins at character level 70. So not thanks. For me the fun is to develop a character, make it better all the time, without pauses, without having to wait for an expansion which will bring me 10 more levels. WoW is all about items, not about character development. And for me at least: character's skills > character's items So I trashed WoW, and I play EVE. Logically. Obviously.
Reven Darklight 256 FREELANCERS Black Scope Project	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:45:00 - [66] you thing, I'm not even going to dignify you with a sir, are an idiot once upon a time i though, no don't abuse the newbies or the noobs we want them to come to eve to make our great game grow, now however i read posts and just thing, nope this guy shouldn't play eve hes just not the right material, so honesty i think the op should **** off. We don't want or need your kind in this game. In 3 months you can finish WOW be lvl 70 have 375 in 2 primary professions and full in the 3 secondary. Congrats start a new character and do it all over again, in EVE 3 months you might be able to pilot a cruiser and have decent skills. You complain about not being able to afford t2 ships and mods, by the time you train up to it you can probable afford it, at 3 months your not going to beable to use my T2 stuff, what with getting learning skills and frig 5 can take a while, t2 frigs going for what 10mil these days. If your at 3 months and can't get 10mil together your either doing something wrong or your not doing anything at all Dear Blizzard, We here at the EVE playerbase thank you from the bottom of our hearts for taking crap players who refuse to play the game and just demand things to be done their way, away from our game.
Delichon Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:47:00 - [67] Fanboys don't tank sarcasm well, do they? OP is great, keep up the good flame.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:54:00 - [68] Most of those points are sadly true .. but it's the PvP !!! err wait CAPITALS! BLOBS! POS WARFARE! YAY! They beats raiding 10-0 .. yeah! .. oh wait It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Reven Darklight 256 FREELANCERS Black Scope Project	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:57:00 - [69] if the OP ment this to be sarcastic, then he failed utterly, as it seems hardly anybody understood his sarcasm. If your going to be sarcastic, you might want to make sure everybody knows your being sarcastic otherwise you just look like a moron
Khes	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:06:00 - [70] Edited by: Khes on 23/10/2007 08:07:58 If it is sarcasm, so be it, but to me it sounds like a typical WoW player who's looking for another game because WoW can not sustain the interesst for its players after a surten level. He gives Eve a go but realise that Eve is nothing like WoW and then wines about it. Some of the points he brings up in his atempt to diss Eve is just proof that he does not comprihend or just does not like the ways of Eve and prefere the WoW ways much more. Nothing wrong with that, it just tells us he likes Wow better. This is just how I want it to be. I would not like all the typical WoW players to emigrate to Eve and try to make it more like Wow. That would completely ruin the game. Eve is not a WoW in space. Thank you OP for showing us again why we are happy about WoW players not liking Eve.

Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:16:00 - [71] Originally by: Delichon Fanboys don't tank sarcasm well, do they? OP is great, keep up the good flame. We get the sarcasm. However, his opinions are crap just the same. If you think WoW is better than Eve, go back to WoW and don't play Eve.
iNFyza Gallente Surferio Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 09:22:00 - [72] Edited by: iNFyza on 23/10/2007 09:21:57 WoW players Dress funny Signature Your signature exceeds the 120 pixel hieght limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
Higgous Gallente Divine Retribution	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:00:00 - [73] Originally by: Pran Chole Dear CCP, ../stuff/.. Insurmountable Training Time Your skill training system scared us a bit there in the beginning. Would the ability to train skills while not playing prevent us from capturing so much of your customer base? It would seem so at first, but when a newbie takes one look at that 300 day plan to get a capital ship? That 90 day plan to fly a T2 cruiser? They ran towards us and we welcomed them with open arms. I hear they are releasing ANOTHER carrot on a stick style expansion (which you have to buy by the way) that lets you get to lvl 80!!! Another year grinding from 70 to 80... enjoy buddy 'Lister to Red Dwarf....'
Esmenet	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:02:00 - [74] Can i have your stuff?
Fivetide Amarr Crimson Strike	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:13:00 - [75] I might give wow a go coz EvE bores me now. Quote of the Month your standing infront of 500 people and your the only one faceing the wrong way jimmy carr
DarthMopp Gallente I.D.I.O.T.	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:25:00 - [76] Sarcasm strikes Community wrecking for 500000 hp. Irony and Sarcasm are not easy to master...if you go to far nobody understands...if you dont push it far enough it is not funny. Damn... I laughed a little about the OP...but what made me spill my coffee over the table were the reactions of all those fanboys wo react as if somebody has used the holy grail as a pis.soir... Get a life...you can love something and at the same time criticize it....sometimes criticism is more helpful then total approval.... "Alea iacta est"
Tradari Gallente Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:51:00 - [77] i think the op needs to have a break TBH as a lot of the post is rubbish. What i dont understand is the constant need to knock WOW players. EVE and wow have simlar problems. wow - noobs advertising Gold all the time EVE - macro miners and isk sellers. WOW - team play eve - team play (although larger teams if in the good corp) WOW - nubbs ganking all the lowbie levels. EVE - as above but eve calls them pirates ( yes u can lose your ship in high sec!!!!) wow - auction house eve - market place, again on a larger scale with more features. wow - players that dont know how to play and post rubbish on fourms eve - As above So in essance eve and wow have a lot in common but we all need to remeber we come here and on wow to enjoy a GAME. i fail to see why anyone wishes to moan or diss another game that there not even playing! + do it on a fourm that WOW players wont even read!!. we might as well be moaning about BF2 players as they wont read it either. So why did i post well basically to ask people to think before posting, if its a moan about another game dont post it on the eve fourms because nobody needs to know, if the eve game is stressing you out take a break away for a few days (remeber to set a skill). If its a bug then file a bug report job done.. Everyone have a nice and pleasant day and ill shoot ya ass in 0.0 when you get there Yours Tradari
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:12:00 - [78] I just find it interesting that anyone assumes that a company entirely dedicated to volume business with a playerbase in excess of 16 million players even notices the total active playerbase of EVE (around 30K). Leave alone the percentage of this that actually leaves to play WoW. They probably can fit them all on a single server there (which has a capacity of 2-3K. Mostly thanks to heavy instancing). Other than that, Blizzard would be more than welcome to help themselves to the former EVE players who couldn't hack it and went in search of a more shallow playing experience. As would the OP.
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:18:00 - [79] Originally by: Pran Chole Documentation Now, we admit, releasing the World of Warcraft with a game manual that cited features that weren't implemented for years was bad form, but you guys took it to the next level. We never thought of abstaining from manuals entirely.. Thats funny cos I have an EvE Online game manual that came with the CD when I bought the game..
Althea Nar'agh StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:39:00 - [80] Originally by: Riese Blecja ...good stuff... Other then that... well the OP made me smile... lag and over population... well i remember lag in wow (yes i did play, a whopping whole month) getting in any major city... oh well it might have changed since... but then again you can't even compare online numbers... overpriced stuffs, this one makes me smile the most... at least eve players wont sell sexual services over the net to buy a fricking epic mount unbalanced races... can you say "tauren shaman" oh... well, who cares? -------------------------- War. War never changes EvE Training Monitor / iMonitor / iCEO EvE iHelper

kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:41:00 - [81] I love the way the OP talks about Eve's skill system, yet fails to mention how its nearly impossible to get "Gear" (WoW's ways of saying Modules for Ships) like a full set of Season 2 suits or Tier 6 Amor unless you belong to a hardcore raiding guild and play 24hr/7days a week and on top of that items in WoW are restricted so after HOURS if not days, weeks or months of redoing OVER and OVER and OVER again the same Raid instances with players just to wait on 1 item drop and loss it to someone else to THEN rinse and repeat that process in HOPES that your item drops...geesh i can go on forever complain about WOW end game and the OP has the #^%%$ to complain about Eve-Onlines Skill system! and lets not even get on the topic about level grinding or being able to play with friends! "Oh im sorry man i cant group with you cause im out of your level range!" Heres to you OP, 010!
Paeniteo	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:52:00 - [82] Edited by: Paeniteo on 23/10/2007 11:55:41 I started EVE in 2003 after doing about a month's beta testing. I have quit and come back well over 5 times and never got a character over 9 million SP. Reason? CCP doesn't get around to fixing some very basic things which just bug me. And whenever there's a really bad decision by the balance team, it seems to take them a minimum of 1 year to fix it. CCP apparently has different priorities to people like me. Example: now they're adding ambulation. That's all good, but I'd rather see the story of the game get put into view, to a point that you're actually.. you know.. involved. The story is there in the background, but has no impact, it's like waking up in africa every morning and reading an italian newspaper - nowhere near close to home. That shafts pretty much any hope of immersion, so the game becomes a flexfest. The way I've seen it all along is they're going bat**** insane on new content without fleshing out what they already have, and it desperately, desperately needs fleshing out! And at the same time, the concept of EVE is more impressive to me than any other project out there. I always come back because other games are generic.
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:53:00 - [83] And just to tackle the OP's points and clarify why his attempt at sarcasm is classified as uninformed unfounded criticism: Graphical User Interface Given the level of control that you have over your ship, the possibilities that the GUI offers are fairly sufficient. And unknown to most, it IS possible to bind many actions to hotkeys, foregoing the right click menu. Now if this is a snide at the fact that EVE doesn't fly like a space sim, that is gameplay mechanics, not user interface. EVE is just not that kind of game. Try out Jumpgate if you want real flight physics. Documentation Sort of valid point. But then i dare you to find a single MMORPG of any depth that has up to date documentation. CCP does a fairly decent job of clarifying features in their dev blogs and forum posts. NPE Was this measured before or after revelations? I could have sworn serious effort was made to improve this. Training time In WoW the end game is constantly raiding other dungeons, constant drama over loot division and ever becoming more exclusive. In EVE the end game is learning T2 ships and capital ships. Both take ridiculously long, but at least in EVE you can do stuff you enjoy while training takes place, while in WoW you have to go on those inane raids and engage in sickening politics to make sure you won't get overlooked with upgrading your capabilities. Ship prices Up to the players. Not CCP. Invention did a lot to remove monopolies there. And new players generally lack the skills to fly T2 ships anyway. All T1 ships can be made from BPO's sold trough NPC sell orders. Who would want a ship they can't use for a year anyway? Both of these points hint strongly at "i expect instant gratification rather than being required to experience the more mundane sections of the game first". IF that is your qualm, you are not sarcastic, you are after an entirely different playing experience than what EVE can offer you. Trust As said. Water under the bridge. Even the epitome of MMORPG's, SOE has had a history of internal politics sometimes touching regular players (Read up on "Tweety" for example). Nothing remarkable if you have played several MMORPG's already. I dare you to point out how CCP could have responded better to the affair than they had. Lag Valid, but then again i dare you to find any MMORPG that doesn't crap out at heavy PvP encounters with a number of players coming even close to what EVE does. Closest you will get is probably Planetside, but even that suffers from framerate problems once there are more than about 200 people fighting in close proximity. It is a valid concern, but you fail at the suggestion that there are games that can tackle this challenge effectively. Population Blame it on the players. CCP did everything short of physically breaking up the trade hubs to prevent everyone and their dog from loitering in Jita and still they come. Even though there is no more mining there. Even though all mission NPC's there are of inferior quality. It is a genuine problem, but not one they are ignorant of. No one simply has found an end all solution yet. Races This is just players being uninformed. Not knowing that with a little effort you can make any bloodline somewhat balanced (yes there are some attribute differences but they are minor), or even forgetting that any race can learn any skill. While i am not surprised at the large number of CNR's flying around, i am surprised at the large number of Achura's. I blame that more to mass hysteria than to true inbalancing. And i dare you to find a race/bloodline that is truly gimped of becoming a productive player measured over all aspects of gameplay. Features Just because you dont like a feature doesn't mean others don't as well. Are you possitive this isn't just about CCP feeling a skill training queue is unbalanced?
Aaeolian Blue Ball Machine YTMND.	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:33:00 - [84] GUI Right click over abuse, and my wheel has just crapped out on my expensive wireless mouse :( Documentation Biggest fail I have seen in a game.. WTF. I love darwin but this is to much. New player Experience Long and tedious and still leaves you with unanswered questions. Insurmountable Training Time This doesnt bother me but how many players do you know that are just waiting to skill for their next toy before they spend more time on the game? Astronomical Ship Prices I dont agree with this, as it makes the adrenalin run when your shiny is on the line. Trust & Favoritism Obviously not made clear enough what happened. (Maybe its just some goons still spreading propaganda and lies) Lag When the most common recruitment line is: come join our small roaming gangs to get away from the lag monster, you know there is a problem. Overpopulation Centers Many possible fixes but still borked Unbalanced Races meh, use your brain You forgot to diss the website, which is so amateurish Parker Brothers would have been ashamed of it in 1992. True lol, and wtf is it doing on the same server as the game? my 2 ISK
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:47:00 - [85] GUI The only thing i wish some button to cycle trough locked targets:) Documentation where? New player Experience My tutorial agent got me podded like 5 mins after starting this game. Hauling mission trough amamake 0.4 i think:) Training Time Much better than any other form of XP grinding. Astronomical Ship Prices I agree the marked/invention does not 100% work as intended. For example Cerberus 60 mil Ishtar 100mil. Trust & Favoritism As long as GM's & DEV's are human they will abuse theyre power.. Lag This is realy a problem. If they do not manage to realize a stable 100vs100 or 200vs200. (i dont care if that means hardcap on systems or sharding) i probably not gonna renew my subscription (well probably not cause im addicted:) Overpopulation Centers Not realy a problem. I dont go to Jita often anyway:) Unbalanced Races Crosstrain.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:59:00 - [86] Edited by: ry ry on 23/10/2007 13:00:16 i regularly enjoy chalk, and i also like cheese. after attempting to eat chalk whilst writing on a blackboard with a dairylea triangle several times, i acknowledge that they aren't the same. infact you could say that they are 'like Eve and WoW'. to coin a phrase.
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:05:00 - [87] Edited by: zilllii on 23/10/2007 13:05:13 Originally by: Pran Chole rabble...rabble...rabble...rant.... so what you are saying is that you are ***ed and want the same amount of skills and wealth as a 4year old player who actively trained and worked his money up for those 4 years in your 14day trial? gimme bigger letter count in my sig so it wont cut off everything damnit!!!!*
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:20:00 - [88] Originally by: Higgous I hear they are releasing ANOTHER carrot on a stick style expansion (which you have to buy by the way) that lets you get to lvl 80!!! Another year grinding from 70 to 80... enjoy buddy How long is it gonna take to get into those new t2 ships? -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Sun Ra Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:27:00 - [89] Edited by: Sun Ra on 23/10/2007 13:28:09 HAVE THE BALLS TO USE YOUR MAIN CHAR AT LEAST p$y
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:37:00 - [90] I was briefly entertained by this. Rifter Flight Manual!

kookookrazyCICHEN	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:42:00 - [91] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Higgous I hear they are releasing ANOTHER carrot on a stick style expansion (which you have to buy by the way) that lets you get to lvl 80!!! Another year grinding from 70 to 80... enjoy buddy How long is it gonna take to get into those new t2 ships? You won't need T2 ships to access the new content that comes out FREE. You will need level 80's and at least some of the new gear to complete the new content in WOW that you PAY FOR.
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:59:00 - [92] Thank you OP for a completely useless pile of sh.... post. _____________________________________
kurg Amarr Science Production And NuKing Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:02:00 - [93] LAG: Its amazing how people compare WoW lag and Eve lag. Eve Lag: is in systems with hundres of players, large blobs can go easily upward of 400+ players in a single system! WoW Lag: they are hardcapped in their battlegrounds at about 50 from both sides i beleive? (not 100% sure on that number), i mean thats a drop in the bucket compared to Eve. I am more than sure you get WoW players to mass up with lets say 100+ players and the lag will be unbareable! So please, if we are going to talk about LAG, then lets compare apples to apples. my .02ISK
Synseer Minmatar Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:37:00 - [94] I agree with OP, You realise how shi.te ccp is with fixing things when you just give up and accept bugs as the game functionality. Remember when you used to be upset when your drones got stuck or starmap gets stuck or starmap doesnt show any stars? Now its all a matter of course that they do.
Esmenet	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:40:00 - [95] Originally by: kurg LAG: Its amazing how people compare WoW lag and Eve lag. Eve Lag: is in systems with hundres of players, large blobs can go easily upward of 400+ players in a single system! WoW Lag: they are hardcapped in their battlegrounds at about 50 from both sides i beleive? (not 100% sure on that number), i mean thats a drop in the bucket compared to Eve. I am more than sure you get WoW players to mass up with lets say 100+ players and the lag will be unbareable! So please, if we are going to talk about LAG, then lets compare apples to apples. my .02ISK Its max 40 players pr side in the biggest battleground. Attacking a major city (something that is tried about once pr year on the "pvp" servers) with about 50-100 players will crash the server.
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:48:00 - [96] the only thing that can be compared is the pure nature of the forums, trolls everyever, splattered on the walls, on the floor, up to the roof, and over the sky yes, blizzard is making good buisness with WOW, too bad the player base is SOOOOOOO much ****** up that i can swim in the never-ending pool of noob-ridden battlefield and infected forums run by trolls :\| wait...wich game was i talking about here? ----------------------------------------------- "1, 2, 3, shuttle reprocessing is right for me"
Jinx Jethro Anything Not Nailed Down	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:52:00 - [97] Wait... wait... this isn't World of StarCraft?
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:54:00 - [98] I'm not sure whats worse. The people who can find nothing good with the game or the people who act like saying aspects are not good is tantamount to heresy. EvE has some great things going for it. EvE has some almost inexcusable issues. I'm personally finding its getting to be less and less worth my money a month, others will disagree.
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:01:00 - [99] Originally by: Jinx Jethro Wait... wait... this isn't World of StarCraft? No, but i hear there is a secret pink portal to Hello Kitty online hidden in an asteroid somewhere in Amamake .
Hegbard	Posted - 2007.10.23 15:37:00 - [100] I have a good opportunity to debunk some of this since I've been a long-time hardcore WoW player. Originally by: Pran Chole I think if you tried a little harder you could eliminate the keyboard requirement entirely. Thank you for neglecting the very interface for so long! As a long time main tank in WoW, with around 15 buttons to push in very specific order and with right timing in every fight with one button push every second for 4-5 hours every evening, the carpal tunnel in my left hand is very happy with EVE. Quote: It would seem so at first, but when a newbie takes one look at that 300 day plan to get a capital ship? Gee. So you think that a user can experience all lvl 1-70 content in two weeks if he's not in a hurry is actually a good thing? You know.. In WoW, the actual game begins when you reach the highest level. And then you need to spend many, many weeks in every instance, doing the same thing over and over and over again just to be able to gear up for the next high end instance. With the 40-man raids, it took on average 15-20 weeks (more or less 4 months) to gear up a guild before you could properly move on, that's assuming half the guild didn't quit because they got bored of the constant grind, which they did so you had to spend even more time gearing up the new people before they could be useful in the better instances. 300 days is a short time even in WoW before you can experience any of the highest level content. Quote: Those six figure price tags are anti-sirens for newbies and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Right. HAH! On a typical day of learning to fight a boss in WoW in a lvl 60 raid instance with 20 wipes per evening we're talking about 40g per person. That's 2 hours of grinding if you're good. Basically, it means, for every hour of mindless grinding you get to experience two hours of endgame content. I'm not experienced enough in EVE, but I'm pretty sure the figures aren't as bad here. Quote: We could not have asked for such performance. Right. You know the new boss they introduced last week? Headless Horseman? He's being called "Disconnecting Horseman". Since sometimes there's as many as 100 people trying to get into one area at the same time to try to kill him. And when someone attempts to gasp PVP, the load gets unbearable for the server and the whole continent (there are only three) goes down for several hours.

Riese Blecja Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.23 19:02:00 - [101] Originally by: Paeniteo Edited by: Paeniteo on 23/10/2007 11:57:21 CCP apparently has different priorities to people like me. Example: now they're adding ambulation. That's all good, but I'd rather see the story of the game get put into view, to a point that you're actually.. you know.. involved. The story is there in the background, but has no impact on you in your ship, it's like waking up in africa every morning and reading an italian newspaper - nowhere near close to home. That shafts pretty much any hope of immersion, so the game becomes a flexfest. Getting involved in the story of EVE is called getting out there, into 0.0, and carving a name for yourself and your corp, not waiting for the devs to hump you and make you into an internet superstar. The backstory is there primarily for flavor, and while it might be nice for them to advance it slightly, it took me too long to figure out that the real story in EVE is the one the players make for themselves.
Gzashon Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 19:09:00 - [102] Originally by: Pran Chole GUI We learned a great deal from you here and we strive to reach the same pinnacle of achievement you have. The mouse manufacturers haven't been this happy since Diablo II. We were good at wearing out the left button with Diablo II, but never attained the level of mastery that you guys clearly have over the right mouse button. The customizable GUI of World of Warcraft alone has swayed many of your customers. We can't thank you enough for your shoddy workmanship in this area. I think if you tried a little harder you could eliminate the keyboard requirement entirely. Thank you for neglecting the very interface for so long! While most of the rest of this post is crap...what i wouldn't give for EVE to have the same infinitely customizable interface that WoW has...WoW's default UI is pretty awful, had it been locked like that i think it seriously would have been an impediment to the growth of the game. Allowing players to essentially destroy and rebuild the entire interface as they see fit (and not just by changing looks, but by adding USEFUL features, features without which playing seems almost unthinkable) was a stroke of genius. Oh yeah, and the lag point is valid too.
Warr Cry	Posted - 2007.10.23 19:18:00 - [103] Balanced Classes... Obviously this guy has not spent alot of time in end-game pvp in WoW.... all I can say is Druids and Locks are OVERPOWERED Bro... tell me what is not OP when a lock dots you up and you ride away on your mount, but those dots tick 80% of your health away.. not to mention, and AOE Stun, seed of corruption spam, unstable affliction? give me a break. And for the Druids, 15k armor,16k hp, and they hit like trucks, not to mention frenzied regeneration and cyclone? LOL at your comment bro about balanced classes.. Blizzard has MUCH to learn in this department. And if you think about it CCP did make this game balanced, since you can fly any race ship you want, you just have to train the skills... l2rant.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.23 19:51:00 - [104] The OP makes some good points, particularly in regard to GUI, documentation, and lag. I'll also add hitting any interesting setup or mod in sight with a nerf bat. ECM:nerf Nos:nerf Nanno:nerf Drones:nerf Carriers:nerf Soon PVP will consist of giving each other stern looks in ambulated stations. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.23 20:00:00 - [105] Originally by: MrTripps The OP makes some good points, particularly in regard to GUI, documentation, and lag. I'll also add hitting any interesting setup or mod in sight with a nerf bat. ECM:nerf Nos:nerf Nanno:nerf Drones:nerf Carriers:nerf +1 Insightful. Also, I give you the quote of the day: Originally by: MrTripps Soon PVP will consist of giving each other stern looks in ambulated stations. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
14882	Posted - 2007.10.23 20:07:00 - [106] I hate WoW...although I agree with this part... Quote: Inane Features Your developer's obsession with new code and lack of supervision has made us very confident that your market share will never threaten ours and we thank you. Heat? Ambulation? Bombs? Wonderful impediments to sucess! We thank you for seeing to these things first rather than fixing the myridad severe problems with EVE. Our userbase has never grown faster. And one easy-win feature that all players could benefit from remains collecting dust on the drawing table. We hope you never implement a skill training queue! After all, CCP, EVE belongs to you, not your players. And you don't need skill queues since you're encouraged, no required to log in at work.
podadot	Posted - 2007.10.23 20:22:00 - [107] A bit off topic, but I always have a good laugh when someone in WOW goes on about how much they love pvp and how uber they are. I laugh and think to myself, the average carebear in Eve would probably send you home crying to your mommy if you had to deal with real pvp.
Brujo Loco Amarr Brujeria Teologica	Posted - 2007.10.23 20:49:00 - [108] Originally by: Pran Chole Overpopulation Centers We realized that having most of your players in one place would be problematic, so we took steps to spread them out and it worked beautifully. Even Teldrassil has people in it most of the time. Linking the auction houses between the capital cities was an elegant solution to our overconcentrated player problems. We were afraid that, on seeing us solve the problem in just a few months you guys up at the top of the world world implement a similar solution to resolve the lagtraps that are Jita, Motsu, Rens and Saila. Thankfully, thus far your attempts have been largely ineffectual. We hope you continue to implement only semi-effective solutions to combat these problems so that more and more of your customers become exclusively our customers. I proposed an idea to try to fix this earlier and still abide by it in either form of its implementation!!! :) Just look at my Archipelago Theory Thread (shameless self advertising here) Cheers! Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
Kyra Felann Gallente Red Eye .Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.23 20:57:00 - [109] I agree about the UI, but...oh yeah, it's getting redone soon...so, uhm... /notsigned
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:02:00 - [110] Originally by: Kyra Felann I agree about the UI, but...oh yeah, it's getting redone soon...so, uhm... /notsigned Based on this it looks like the touted UI "redo" was very limited and poorly done. -- Support fixing the EVE UI

Phantom Slave Amarr Mozzaki United	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:21:00 - [111] Originally by: Xaen Based on this it looks like the touted UI "redo" was very limited and poorly done. If you check the game dev section, there's a dev post in there detailing some more changes that were made. I don't see how it was poorly done, as everything in the UI can now be moved, including your 'target' box, where it shows all of the objects you have targeted. ____________________ Pirating in EVE is like kicking a squirrel and stealing his food. The squirrel hates you afterwards, but it's fun none the less.
Ander Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:45:00 - [112] Best way to make sure a thread doesnt receive answers from people with goldbars is to mentione either "t20" or kugucensured. Throw in a couple of claims of bob favouritism and you're sure to get it locked in notime :) EVE PIRATE
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:17:00 - [113] Originally by: Phantom Slave If you check the game dev section, there's a dev post in there detailing some more changes that were made. I don't see how it was poorly done, as everything in the UI can now be moved, including your 'target' box, where it shows all of the objects you have targeted. I'm pretty sure the ship & modules thing is stuck in the middle on the bottom. The pop-up status/info/combat mutant tooltip is still stick in the middle of the damn screen and updates too fast to be useful. Last I checked on Singularity, the targeting "bar" was stuck in the far upper right. The menu panel is still stuck on the left. The station panel is still stuck on the far right. The station services panels are still stuck behind all the other windows and can't be resized or moved. The clunky context menu is still the only way to do most things. Chat windows still receive all keystrokes by default. The GUI is still in the same thread as everything else. Modal dialogs are still being used as crutches and for notfication. There are no drone grouping capability. Unit grouping was something Command & Conquer had in 1995. Module status can be hard to see in many situations Once up to speed on python (I know C/++), I could make a better GUI in a couple of weeks. -- Support fixing the EVE UI
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:19:00 - [114] Originally by: annab T Yes ccp has had a few devs break the rules while sad. We now have a player run oversight committee. Who? Where? Maybe its announced in fanfest and I missed it?
Tressin Khiyne The Tal'Shiar	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:39:00 - [115] why do people always complain about having to click? -- There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:48:00 - [116] This loser must work for blizzard tbh
Koba Kyogen byeee Corp Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.02 00:52:00 - [117] some points in there but EvE is still unparalleled in other aspects, like chosing templates and open ended play. no cookie cutter 'toons in crappy crayon drawn battlegrounds KKyogen Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Bow'ma Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:15:00 - [118] Where's my Starrrcrafttt !
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Koba Kyogen some points in there but EvE is still unparalleled in other aspects, like chosing templates and open ended play. no cookie cutter 'toons in crappy crayon drawn battlegrounds KKyogen Absolutely. I'm an EVE subscriber, not a WoW subscriber. I have played it yes, but I don't currently and haven't for months...years? -- Support fixing the EVE UI


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