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MWDs: Fight or Flight

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umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.26 02:32:00 - [31] Originally by: Darkstar Deceiver people like you ruin eve. go away. i hate you seriously Best first post ever. Correct and too the point. And you didnt say first. I'd also like to reinforce your views on the op
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.26 02:36:00 - [32] just as an aside to the person who mentioned warp scramblers should affect mwd, read the freaken description, a scrambler affects the navigation computer, which the mwd does not use I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan!
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.26 02:37:00 - [33] Originally by: I SoStoned Put in a few more effective counters to OMGZOOOOOOOM nanogangs and all will be well. A speed killing super-fast missile would be great. As would cruiser/BS webs that reach considerably beyond 10km (20km & 30km respectively) would also help out alot. Extended range on inty warp scramble is going to open a whole bloody kettle of worms that will have exactly 1 counter: Minmatar recons, and that's it, period. Speed has repeatedly and consistantly caused massive problems since day 1, and has been adjusted and nerfed with almost every major patch, and a lot of minor patches, for years. The only way to bring speed within the dynamic of the game is to place a cap to speed for each shipclass, or particular ship (by bonuses) which becomes harder to attain the closer one gets, would balance things out a great deal. NO The solutions to nanogangs are already there for the ******** carebears that fall victim to them to use, they just dont know how. Nanogangs have appeared because: A) they offer higher surviveability thats all... if you poke a carebear alliance with 3 people you will get no response or 50 people undocking all together on you. Nanos are one of the few anti blob weapons left. (titans were never anti blob, they were anti coalition)
Caenus	Posted - 2007.10.26 02:57:00 - [34] MWDS are important for slow ships to get to close range faster, so no. what needs to happen is either an upper speed limit nerf, or simply to get some ultra accurate/fast turrets/missiles that do low damage, but hey, speed freaks arent tanking normally anyway right? but the power to kill speed freaks should only be a super accurate or super fast turret or missile from the same class or smaller, no large guns designed to kill flies. that keeps frigs viable both against large ships and for fighting off enemy frigs in combat. I still love destroyers.
Petstretsi Zuborov	Posted - 2007.10.26 03:31:00 - [35] I've been saying for a long time there is too large a disparity between MWDs and Afterburners. To be honest, afterburners need a large reduction as well, but would the general player base be able to handle a huge reduction, if an average ship took 60 seconds to span 15km? We'd see maneuvering battles, but as crazy as it sounds, we'd also see "nerf Amarr", as any ship with long range weapons would be king. There's a medium in the middle here somewhere, as right now ships are far too fast, but if everything were to change to long protracted engagements we'd just go back to sniping ships. OR we'd rely on sensor dampeners... wait, those are getting nerfed too right? See we're screwed.
Janus Duo Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.10.26 03:37:00 - [36] Sounds like a good idea, bring some nonconsentual back into PvP. You'd need to nerf webbers a bit to compensate however, else once a web was on you wouldn't be able to maneuver at all. Also the Vaga would suffer quite a bit
Dotard Minmatar Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.26 03:46:00 - [37] Our nano'd ships DO NOT go too fast. Yours just go too slow. --------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
War Bear Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:01:00 - [38] Originally by: Grapez Edited by: Grapez on 26/10/2007 01:06:50 Originally by: NOK NOK here is the answer u seek. Fly a Rapier or Huggin.. end of story... 60% web range per level... inty's die.. any nano ship dies.. or make sure you move faster than the nano ship.. think logically people! This is something, but it's surely not logical. Okay, so the counter to a tactic is a specific ship? No. When it became obvious that supercaps were overpowered, we got interdictors and warp disrupt bubbles. These were items that were available to every race, and are in fact a very good counter to supercaps. When it became obvious that nano gangs are overpowered, you suggest that we all spend the next 20 days training for two very specific ships, which are only available to one race and are at best only a deterrent to nano gangs. I truly hope this is sarcasm. By your math supercaps were overpowered so we now have dictors and bubbles. OK fine, no problem. Now you say that nano gangs are over powered and need something to counter but there already are means to counter them. Minmatar recon ships fill this role quite well as do other fast ships with a web loaded. Your one counter to this is that only one race has access to this? I'm sorry last I checked a Huginn and Rapier were available to everyone who wanted to train them. Fast ships are not a problem. Annoying when you can't keep up? Sure. Effective when used properly? You bet. Able to be countered and dealt with? Yes sir. Now you nice folks run along now and stop asking for more nerfs that aren't needed. Everything is funny with the Benny Hill theme song
Caenus	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Janus Duo Sounds like a good idea, bring some nonconsentual back into PvP. You'd need to nerf webbers a bit to compensate however, else once a web was on you wouldn't be able to maneuver at all. Also the Vaga would suffer quite a bit yes Im all for reduction in high end speeds AND webber nerf.
Bradley Eltoch	Posted - 2007.10.26 05:28:00 - [40] So... Make MWD's act like warp drives, aka NERF them I'm not against making them easier to tackle, but I want the opposite to also be available. I want to be able to use a warp stab in my mission gang speed/tackle setup so that I can get across the map FAST and tackle those frigates so the cruisers can take them out. If a compromise like that is offered, I am willing to also grant the scrambling ability to the drive. Otherwise I see only a whine -> Nerf -> FAIL proceeding here. MWD's don't need to be nerfed, but if you want them to be more name accurate then give us something to balance your change.
Khurrak	Posted - 2007.10.26 06:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Bradley Eltoch So... Make MWD's act like warp drives, aka NERF them I'm not against making them easier to tackle, but I want the opposite to also be available. I want to be able to use a warp stab in my mission gang speed/tackle setup so that I can get across the map FAST and tackle those frigates so the cruisers can take them out. If a compromise like that is offered, I am willing to also grant the scrambling ability to the drive. Otherwise I see only a whine -> Nerf -> FAIL proceeding here. MWD's don't need to be nerfed, but if you want them to be more name accurate then give us something to balance your change. Frigates and destroyers should be the ones to kill frigs.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.26 06:20:00 - [42] MWD is fine, everyone who has a problem countering this is just noob and needs to learn2play.
Artemis Dragmire Deadspace Armada Lost Children of Eve	Posted - 2007.10.26 07:13:00 - [43] The OP's idea brings something interesting to the table especially if it also broke lock on whoever was targetting you. HOWEVER, this would nerf intys much too hard imo (and I don't even fly one) I would much prefer seeing the MWD being vulnerable to warp disruptors/scramblers. This would have minimal effect on interceptors as they are already getting a boost to their tackle range (so therefore they can orbit outside of normal ships warp disruption range), and would not have to worry (as much) about their MWD being disrupted. Stabs would help prevent this just like they help prevent normal warp jamming. If you're hit with a warp jammer and you are using a MWD, your MWD deactivates OR your sig radius increases greatly. Either way it'd be an interesting counter that EVERYONE could use, but at the same time it could be avoided by skilled pilots, just like current webbers. And even then, the REALLY fast ships like an ishtar or a vaga would only be affected minimally, since these ships usually stay out of this range anyways. Yes, if you are trying to MWD you wouldn't be able to get within tackle range for fear of being tackled yourself, but guess what, that's the risk you take... and it would help with what CCP is trying to shove down our throats anyways, and that being "Don't fly solo." Interesting ideas here.
Boomx	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:33:00 - [44] I must fail since I thought this seemed like a constructive post...?
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:43:00 - [45] If you landed outside scramble range and needed to mwd into it your target would just get away. _
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:45:00 - [46] Well it is funny how whiners nerf themselfs. If people hadn't complained about the explosive velocity bonus on the nighthawk you would have had a great anti nano platform right there. Jita fix: The distributed market hub
Gefex	Posted - 2007.10.26 08:55:00 - [47] Its not MWD's that are overpowered, or even nano's/overdrives. Its a certain set of implants that tips the balance.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:16:00 - [48] That is actually not a bad idea. Would make Amarr useful again. One of the biggest problems in EvE, is the ease of closing the range. Take a blasterthron that stumbles on an Apoc. By the time both have locked eachother, the blasterthron is within its optimal range and the range advantage of the Apoc is completely lost. Yeah, it would mean a serious kick in the face to all blaster setups, so it needs some tweaking, but at the moment MWD's are a serious kick in the face to Amarr (since we really can't fit a MWD with our 3 med slots and huge cap consumption). But thats the Amarr point of view, well MY Amarr POW
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Darkstar Deceiver people like you ruin eve. go away. i hate you seriously Clueless troll post without arguments, and bordering on emo. It's people like you who ruin the community. Long ago, when you could put both MWD and AB on your ship, CCP stated that MWD were for approaching the target, and AB for speed tanking. It's a shame they didn't enforce this more vigorously, or the nano plague would have operated within the bound of acceptable game mechanics, and wouldn't have needed to be at least double-nerfed (one nerf done, another to come soon). I somewhat agree with the OP, you shouldn't be able to fight efficiently while mwding. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Delusion 'Fel Minmatar Nefarious Ratiocinations Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:39:00 - [50] /vote no Christ, i remember reading these forums when we were debating the fact that the ships were unrealistically slow. Now you want to slam on the handbrake and make them slower?! I dont know wether to laugh hysterically or cry
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.26 10:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Eikl There are already too many posts on nano gangs, counters, how the counters don't work, how nanos are the new warp stabs, blah blah blah. Since it's the internet, I'll start another one anyway. Yes, we can all moan and whine on the internets. First off, we have just recieved yet another counter to nanos. Yeah, I'm talking about the minmatar EA frig. Second, if counters don't work, why do nanos keep dying on a regular basis? Just looking at ship production numbers obviously shows that nano counters work just fine. Which means your whine is pointless. Originally by: Eikl Wanna go faster in combat? Buy an afterburner. Nerf webs and people might - just one module reducing your speed to 10% of what you started with is redicilous.
Caffeine Junkie Caldari The Ministry Of Funny Walks	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:13:00 - [52] Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 26/10/2007 11:14:49 I like the idea that they have to be managed in some way, maybe they generate heat, or have to consume a fuel of some kind. Afterburners on jets give them a massive increase in speed, but at a cost, they'll burn the fuel reserves in a matter of minutes. Then again it would also be nice to be able to overload the basic elements of your ship (engines -> speed, shield emitters -> shield regen, power core -> cap recharge) but have them emit heat into all three racks and begin to damage your ship / rigs. ___________________ Caldari Navy Charon FTW!
WowZilla The Leeroy Jenkins Project	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:46:00 - [53] If you could speed fit chars in WoW I would sign up, so I could own your asses and you would take your whines BACK over there instead. Stop trying to fix something that is not broken. Speed is one of, if not the, most attractive and creative elements of pvp. My reasonably priced huggin goes 4k, but it IS vunerable to various counters, is paper thin and deals sub par dps. May vaga is quick, can i hit stuff at 5k? Nope. Can I get out of dodge if thinks go pear shaped, sure, most of the time. Thats balance. Have to train a minnie recon/new ewar frigate to counter? Not neccesarily...but so what if you do? Thats the game. I would love to see a boost to the speed capability of ALL current non traditional speed ships to be honest. If you whiners had it all your way it would be a RED V BLUE slugfest at 50km. But you would still find something to complain about. I suppose you moan at cruisers with istabs/nano's getting INTO warp quickly from a gate camp, 'He warped to quick, its not fair, My raven cant scram him, nerf it'. Killing speed would KILL this game. Eve is not here to satisfy just YOUR requirements of a game. I have never whined about anything that annoys me in this game. If you have to whine about anything then look at what most of you whiners are using, missiles, request a buff to explosion velocity so you can do more damage. See? I dont mind you whiners getting a boost, makes it more of a challenge, but FFS leave speed a alone. You ppl make me sick. Do us all a favour, just **** off and end yourselves, painfully. ^The above is what happens when by nature a person is not of the 'me me me' culture, rarely moans and deals with what is thrown at them. But even I have a threshold.
duffmantt Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:57:00 - [54] Quote: people like you ruin eve. go away. I seriously Hate you LOL
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:40:00 - [55] When almost any concievable setup out there where you might consider using an afterburner works a hell of a lot better with an mwd instead... ...then clearly MWD's are overpowered.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.26 12:58:00 - [56] Originally by: WowZilla a lot of personal insults You fail to give any counter arguments to why MWD should not be balanced. Anyone who has the PG/Grid would fit an MWD over an AB, making the AB obsolete. Increasing the cost for an MWD so you would actually have to consider AB or MWD, is a good thing. I still see Mega's, Vaga's and Interceptors using MWD's even if they have a greater drawback. Be constructive, imaginative and polite.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:16:00 - [57] Of course, it's so simple! Now I can kill all those pesky interceptors that were holding me in place allowing me to run away from anything that doesn't personally fit tackling gear. Oh, oh, oh, and I can stop those mean close range battleships from getting in range and actually doing any damage. I'm no fan of the nano-gangs but this is a seriously bad idea.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Of course, it's so simple! Now I can kill all those pesky interceptors that were holding me in place allowing me to run away from anything that doesn't personally fit tackling gear. Oh, oh, oh, and I can stop those mean close range battleships from getting in range and actually doing any damage. I'm no fan of the nano-gangs but this is a seriously bad idea. Well then, lets just reduce the speed to 250%. Same cap reduction and cap consumption. And you can lock as before.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:36:00 - [59] Someone gimme a link to that "how to stay outside web range with my sniper" book.
Kolwrath Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:49:00 - [60] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Of course, it's so simple! Now I can kill all those pesky interceptors that were holding me in place allowing me to run away from anything that doesn't personally fit tackling gear. Oh, oh, oh, and I can stop those mean close range battleships from getting in range and actually doing any damage. I'm no fan of the nano-gangs but this is a seriously bad idea. Well then, lets just reduce the speed to 250%. Same cap reduction and cap consumption. And you can lock as before. I would support that. MWD's are IMHO the real source of the problem. The snake (?) set isent helping the situation either. To all the trolls in this thread, please go back under your bridge. I have seen a nano vexor go 5-8km a second. That isent right. The guy essentially was invincible and could leave the fight at will. And to all those who say "use ship x, y, or z, well quite frankly its a very stupid argument because essentailly you are saying that to counter a nano ship you have to use one of only three ships in the game, in a very specific setup, and bring along friends, just to kill one ship. That is not what I would call balanced. I would bet 100 million isk that all those who say nanoships are fine, are nano pilots who are too blinded by thier love for thier untouchable setups that they cannot see the imbalance.

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