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AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:46:00 - [1] Destroyers are dead end ships. noone will fly them once that heavy dictors get out. Cruisers 5 will simply open too many doors. so. Why wouldn't new E-war ships be destroyers instead of frigates?
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:47:00 - [2] I love my Catalyst now. I will love it after Trinity too...
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:48:00 - [3] yeah, but destroyers really need some love.
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:49:00 - [4] Then say that instead of "noone will fly them"...
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:51:00 - [5] Hey - I like my little "Trash Collector" and use it every time I run a mission to collect all of the space debris so not to cause any issues with other pilots who might be flying in the area. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Jack Target Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:52:00 - [6] I don't fly them, but they should be very effective vs. interceptor(s). They have a fast locking time, and a slow rate of fire. The alpha strike is very good (particulaly if you have Advanced Weapons Upgrade 4). But if you have the skills for it, they are outclassed already by interdictors, although at a T2 price and skill point requirement.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:53:00 - [7] They are a tad pointless :/ Perhaps they'll see more use with the intie buffs?
Mal'ol Soddo	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:55:00 - [8] I've always thought a T2 varient that could fit torp launchers for BS/Capital hunting in packs might be possible (if somewhat hard to balance), making an all destroyer (Hull class atleast) gang more viable.
Jack Target Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Jack Target on 29/10/2007 23:59:24 I don't fly them, but I think the bottom line is: 'can the destroyer kill an inty with one volley'
Terail Zoqial	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:03:00 - [10] I love 'em. I want a tier 2 version for cleaning up after missions with boni such as %20 to tractor beam range, %5 salvage maybe %5 to speed per level, and a big stinking cargo bay to get all that phat lewt in with maybe 4 low slots
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:08:00 - [11] Destroyers are great salvagers, level 1-2 missioners, frig killers (nobody primaries a destroyer) and flying disco ships. I highly recommend the following fitting: Thrasher x4 salvager x2 tractor beam x1 energized exotic dancer pole x1 10mn mwd x1 disco ball x1 strobe light x2 microauxiliary power core ___________ I learned to accept ship changes months ago. Suddenly I enjoy Eve. You should try it some time.
Hozac	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:15:00 - [12] Drop the RoF penalty.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:15:00 - [13] all they're used is for tackling. tell me when did you see destroyer in 0.0 battle?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Hozac Drop the RoF penalty. If you do that, a blaster Catalyst will be able to get up to almost 500 dps.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:22:00 - [15] Originally by: AntonioBanderas all they're used is for tackling. tell me when did you see destroyer in 0.0 battle? Lots of times. Including me personally flying in all-destroyer wolfpacks in 0.0 quite a few times. They're both fun and effective.
insidion Caldari Last of the Technocracy	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:32:00 - [16] Originally by: AntonioBanderas Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 00:24:37 all they're used is for salvageing. tell me when did you see destroyer in 0.0 battle? This is pretty much the sad truth. When I first started playing, I fell in love with the destroyer class immediately, so it's not that it's a bad class per se, it's just that it's almost got no home when compared to the other classes. The next step up into an interdictor is a very large leap into a specified niche that most people just don't do as they head right on into either advanced frigates or leap ahead to bigger ships. Would be great to not only see destroyers get a bit of a makeover, but to have a few stepping stones between them and their current t2 variants.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:35:00 - [17] The Destroyer should be an awesome ship but they are simply to fragile for their speed and sig radius. Maybe a severe hit point buff closer to cruiser HP levels but keeping frigate weapons would let them carry out their role of frigate death dealers but cruisers would still make mincemeat of them. Not sure if this would be overpowered or not though. Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:40:00 - [18] Destroyers are one of the better throw away ships you can pvp in. With skills and proper equipment you instant lock/pop alot of little things. Its a great solo and gang ship that works great.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.10.30 00:57:00 - [19] Hey, my 100 km cormorant sniper owns you!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:04:00 - [20] I think a role bonus of something like... 100% increase to tracking speed would be nice :) ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:07:00 - [21] Originally by: MotherMoon I think a role bonus of something like... 100% increase to tracking speed would be nice :) They already have a tracking bonus. 10%/level.
Commander Prishe Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:10:00 - [22] Why dont they change all T1 destroyers and give them salvage running bonuses instead, there only used for salvage anyway. That may leave a big gap for new players upgrading there frigate to the next size ship however (personaly i went from kestral > caracal and skipped comorant). So they shoud make a dedicated salvage destroyer size ship for each race as well. Do love my little salvaging comorant though, its had as much fly time as my raven easily (just not with killing anything)
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:12:00 - [23] Anything, anything to make this ship class useful for something other than salvaging would be welcome. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:17:00 - [24] Originally by: Frug Anything, anything to make this ship class useful for something other than salvaging would be welcome. 90+ km optimal on a Cormorant with tech 2 sniper fitting. Almost 300 dps on a blaster Catalyst with tech 2 ion blasters and null ammo. Optimal range out to 22-25 something, crazy high tracking stats like 0.6-0.7 (depending on skill and fitting) and then high dps on top of that in a Coercer with tech 2 pulse lasers, ranged crystals and some tracking mods. How is none of that useful?
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:20:00 - [25] Thrasher + Arties = Interceptors, lol.
Sylvia Lafayette	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:20:00 - [26] i fly an exequoror for salvaging with 1 tractor 3 salvager's a 100mn ab and the lows have like 2 pdu and something else... has like twice the cargo space and hits 804m/s... doesnt like to turn that fast though.... i rember my catalyst droped it fast for the exeq though
Adunh Slavy KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:43:00 - [27] Originally by: MotherMoon no I mean double this so that it can kill the ever faster ships in eve. That is supposed to be the role, ... here's an idea. Some sort of webber sphere that the T1 DD can launch, as opposed to the T2 variants warp sphere. It would certainly set them into line and give them a valuable role and it would be capable of putting all the speed issues to rest as there would be a direct and obvious counter measure. -AS
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:21:00 - [28] Desy's are fine, they keep the Inties away, unless the inty pilot has never run into a gang with a destroyer before. Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:23:00 - [29] Someone mentioned destroyer based torpedo ships to, there is so much room for CCP to develop the small ship classes, Effective assault frigates would be a start and then boost destroyers this way its bringing 2 somethings its giving assault ships more oomph and giving them a defined role (making bigger ships lives difficult) and bringing an effective counter to the table in the form of buffed destroyers. Close range glass cannon "Destroyer Escort" class ships armed with torpedoes if properly implemented could be an interesting ship class, Imagine what a small group of these could do in a fleet battle, and for their counter assault frigates would work fairly well. So Boost smaller ships not just destroyers. Originally by: MOTOK0 A bit like the second coming of jesus only with screaming and tears and whine threads.
Luke Lor'aul	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:41:00 - [30] you know a tech 2 fitted thrasher with quake can do over 1.3k damage per volley, right? that's equivalent to insta popping two claws, atleast HP wise. sure it's not fast or long range, but hell with tremor you can still do massive damage. it takes AWU IV though. destroyers are very advanced ships
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:54:00 - [31] Originally by: Luke Lor'aul you know a tech 2 fitted thrasher with quake can do over 1.3k damage per volley, right? that's equivalent to insta popping two claws, atleast HP wise. sure it's not fast or long range, but hell with tremor you can still do massive damage. it takes AWU IV though. destroyers are very advanced ships Erm. Yes. Quake you say? Ok, let me know how that goes. That said, I 2v1'd a pair of claws with my auto thrasher and they ran like little girls. ;-) Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:01:00 - [32] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/10/2007 03:02:16 Nothing short of a major reduction in signature radius will make T1 destroyers good for something other than salvaging/basic PvE. I mean what can you really say about something with little tank and a giant bullseye for cruiser-class weapons? Ironically a reduction in signature radius could unbalance them against those very cruisers. Damage output from both destroyers and dictors can be massive, so it could be argued their ease of death is the balance to this.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:43:00 - [33] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 30/10/2007 03:43:48 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/10/2007 03:02:16 Nothing short of a major reduction in signature radius will make T1 destroyers good for something other than salvaging/basic PvE. I mean what can you really say about something with little tank and a giant bullseye for cruiser-class weapons? Ironically a reduction in signature radius could unbalance them against those very cruisers. Damage output from both destroyers and dictors can be massive, so it could be argued their ease of death is the balance to this. TBH, they need a small boost to speed and a rather significant reduction in sig radius. Oh - and lose the stupid ROF penalty... =( =( =( Liang Ed: The ROF penalty comment is superfluous and not serious.. and because I have destroyers 5. ;-) -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.10.30 04:01:00 - [34] Killed a lot of of t2 frigs in my corm. Best ones are the close range fitted inty/AF or the bomber thinking he'll one volly me.
Astorothe Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 04:14:00 - [35] I skipped the Dessy hull on my ascension up the ship-ladder. Just didn't find a niche for it back then (several years ago now). However, they come into their own later on, particularly in PvP engagements and the T2 varities. Web design, development and hosting solutions for Eve Corps
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.10.30 04:22:00 - [36] yea them 75mm rail guns hitting at 6000m/s transversal really sucks and what not... oh wait that wasn't even on a destroyer :D and the 125mm (on a harpy) putting dictors into run away mode too :D this makes me want to get a destroyer now
Gamer Maximus	Posted - 2007.10.30 06:03:00 - [37] Eh, im flying the Caldari destroyer as a Caldari, and loaded it with 7 tech II railguns/blasters (faction ammo) and a tech II rocket launcher. Assumming all the guns could get in the same optimal range, theroretical DPS ~= 250-300, while still having some tanking power against most frigates. I do agree they go obsolete quickly, but fitted right, you can skip cruisers and go stright to BC, without too many problems.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:01:00 - [38] Originally by: AntonioBanderas Destroyers are dead end ships. noone will fly them once that heavy dictors get out. Cruisers 5 will simply open too many doors. so. Why wouldn't new E-war ships be destroyers instead of frigates? Not even. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:08:00 - [39] I have to agree with what others are saying. My alt has a Cormorant fitted with T2 guns, with both faction and T2 ammo, and I can get almost 100km optimals out of I think it was 125mm railguns. I just need to finish the engineering and shield related skills, and then I want to take it into a fight to test it out. "Return with your shield, or on it."
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:24:00 - [40] T2 fitted you can get awesome range....but the dps shrinks to nothing. You could go t2 blaster and get massive alpha strike...but ROF cuts down on potential dps alot. I don't know what tank people are talking about when they mention destroyers. They get smacked for full damage from small and medium guns due to their sig radius. I dont know what people are talking about beating an AF. The AF resists cancel out alot of that damage and can actually tank something. Destroyers have slow speed, high sig radius, bad ROF penalty, crappy cpu/grid, and few mid/low slots to add any sort of tank. Heck most frigates have better balanced mids and lows. Unless you go with really small guns you can't even fit out all turret slots nor sustain prolonged fire due to the capacitor drain. There are several ways to boost destroyers to something worthwhile without making them too uber. Sig radius reduction is one. CPU/grid reduction for small turrets would be another. Extra mid/low slot or capacitor increase are others.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:34:00 - [41] I can't really see why they would remove the interdictor level 4 prereq from heavy dictors. -
Demje	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:55:00 - [42] Edited by: Demje on 30/10/2007 07:59:14 I always felt destroyers should be the counter to all frigate sized ships, but theyre nearly as weak as frigates themselves as well as being slower and larger sig radius. How about each level also reduces signiture radius by 5% and increases speed by 2%. that will give them a little needed boost in speed to be able to chase those frigs around, and make them slightly harder for cruisers to hit. theyre so easy to get killed by cruisers. or, medium weapons signature resolution could be increased to make them shoot slightly more inaccurately. I love destroyers its just a shame they're outclassed by their inherent tanking problems against either frigate masses or a cruiser, particularly with a webber.
Sensemann eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.30 08:20:00 - [43] a little love for Destroyers would be nice, but CCP is to eager to implement shiny new T2 stuff... and small packs of Destroyers are a good protection for Fleets, since they are so underrated by nearl everyone (as mentioned, no one Primaries you ) only problem is, by the time you fly a Destroyer good, you probably can fly something better and have no isk-Problem
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.30 09:26:00 - [44] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 09:27:31 Originally by: Demje Edited by: Demje on 30/10/2007 07:59:14 I always felt destroyers should be the counter to all frigate sized ships, but theyre nearly as weak as frigates themselves as well as being slower and larger sig radius. How about each level also reduces signiture radius by 5% and increases speed by 2%. that will give them a little needed boost in speed to be able to chase those frigs around, and make them slightly harder for cruisers to hit. theyre so easy to get killed by cruisers. this. and additional low or mid slot. that woudl make them actually useful. A destroyer should be something between a frig and a cruiser, he should eat frigs and be food for cruisers. But at this point theyre useless ships, fun to fly in rather big gangs of experienced pilots just for laughs, but otherwise, they're salvageing beatches. And they have souch a huge potential... And it's sad, 'cause i love my dessy.
NateX Singularity.	Posted - 2007.10.30 09:31:00 - [45] people that love the destroyer playstyle, fly a interdictor imo... maybe its not the reality but its the natural thing to do if you love flying a destroyer but think it lakes' something ;)
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 09:32:00 - [46] Plnety of uses for destroyers, like the old saying goes that i just made up: "If you fit them, they will own." Though 1 midslot in the amarr dessy is a bit, iffy My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 09:56:00 - [47] Don't try to tank them up (not for pvp combat), and don't fly alone, and they are great. Do either or both of the above and you will find them useless. Use them as the fleet ships they're meant to be and use your slots to the fullest, and you won't. Think of the amount of electronic warfare you can fit on a group of 10 or more destroyers (no Coercers ). The best defense is when they can't fire at you in the first place.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.30 10:06:00 - [48] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 10:15:08 Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 10:07:30 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Think of the amount of electronic warfare you can fit on a group of 10 or more destroyers (no Coercers ). The best defense is when they can't fire at you in the first place. yes. that. now read my first post. We'll have to many frigates, EW dessys woudl be so much cooler. To continue on that idea: instead of anti tackling intys, make anty tackling dessys. so web range/ECM/damp/tracking disruptor bonus anyone?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Think of the amount of electronic warfare you can fit on a group of 10 or more destroyers (no Coercers ). The best defense is when they can't fire at you in the first place. Exactly! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:35:00 - [50] I love flying my destroyer (Caty) but the destroyer class is just soo easy to pop it has been relegated to be the "Janitor of Eve", cleaning up after the mission mess. Sad for such a fun ship to fly. The sig radius/HP range they sit in makes them so vulnerable they are just not practical in combat with a range of ships as opposition. Halve their sig radius and you'd get the super frigate you'd expect them to be. Still stopable, but able to gang up on BSs in actual comat.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:42:00 - [51] Originally by: NateX people that love the destroyer playstyle, fly a interdictor imo... maybe its not the reality but its the natural thing to do if you love flying a destroyer but think it lakes' something ;) Nope thats an incorrect statement, think of it this way. Interdictors are oversized interceptors that use destroyer hulls. Basically, they have close range weapons with close range weapon bonuses with a fair amount of dps they also go at high speeds and spit out bubbles. Destroyers on the other hand are slowish, have long range weapons with long range bonuses that have incredible alpha strikes but a reduced dps, they also have little to no ewar. The nearest comparable ship to a Destroyer is the Battlecruiser, I still believe that destroyer 4 should be part of the skill reqs to get into a battlecruiser. They are a similar concept, lots of highs, using the same modules as the ship class below it. Anyway off track. What I would like to suggest is two things. 1: A Tier2 destroyer with the same bonuses as the tier1 battlecruisers, Basically a tank bonus and a weapon bonus. 2: A Tech2 version of the Tier1 destroyer, with the emphasis on long range and the capacity to fit one gang warfare module. They should also have a T2 tank and the ROF bonus should be cancelled out by a 5%/lvl rof bonus with the Tech2 skill.
AntonioBanderas	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:59:00 - [52] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 12:59:21 Originally by: Nian Banks What I would like to suggest is two things. 1: A Tier2 destroyer with the same bonuses as the tier1 battlecruisers, Basically a tank bonus and a weapon bonus. 2: A Tech2 version of the Tier1 destroyer, with the emphasis on long range and the capacity to fit one gang warfare module. They should also have a T2 tank and the ROF bonus should be cancelled out by a 5%/lvl rof bonus with the Tech2 skill. Another excellent idea. Make destroyers do for frigs what battlecruisers do for cruisers. !!! Omg so much good ideas, devs will never ever EVER show up here.
Valan Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:10:00 - [53] Edited by: Valan on 30/10/2007 13:13:12 I had a nice Thrasher set up with T2 280s a jammer, a webber as well as a launcher with defenders for those pesky missile flinging Kestrels. It screws with small ships within jamming range. If you slip into web range in anything small kiss your arse goodbye. Its like hitting*****roaches with a spade. What the destroyer needs is a lower sig radius to give them a chance against larger ships. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
AntonioBanderas Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:23:00 - [54] care to share your setup? I'm really trying to find a viable (and cheap) anti nano setup... And this is supposed to be dessys role...
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 13:48:00 - [55] Originally by: AntonioBanderas Destroyers are dead end ships. noone will fly them once that heavy dictors get out. Cruisers 5 will simply open too many doors. so. Why wouldn't new E-war ships be destroyers instead of frigates? Something like this? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:02:00 - [56] Don't forget, by fitting 2xnos and 6x small smartbombs, cap booster, cap rechargers etc, even some plating to get the armor up to 2000 or so...you get a really nice boomboom ship My favorite "small ratting" ship ever. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:10:00 - [57] I love my Thrasher: High: 5 Small Tractor Beams 3 Salvagers Mid: T2 MWD (Swap with 10MN ABII if you must salvage in deadspace) Cap Rechargers Low: Cargo Expanders And, oh yeah, I tried using destroyers for combat a while ago, found them quite lacking, so yes, destroyers are desperately in need of a little love! He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Hobo Roughsleeper	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:23:00 - [58] Edited by: Hobo Roughsleeper on 30/10/2007 14:24:53 I Love my Coercer High 8x dual light beams II Med sensboost II Low 3 heatsink II 1 tracking II Alternative (more dps less tracking) High 5 med beams II 3 dual light II Med 1 sensboost II Low 3 Heatsinks II, 1 cpu Please do not try to tank or it will become useless.. Shoot inty's until they all left then start shooting primary/Secondary ;) Make sure u got dmg implant for small energy turrets as well, 3% only 500k or so.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.10.30 14:25:00 - [59] i've had a thrasher using artys 3 volley my old 12kms crow, well, he only volley'd me twice and then i ran away in low structure. they're pretty evil, it was the only ship there, now imagen if one of them is sitting in the middle of a small to medium gang and you don't notice it, kaplowy! ---
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:52:00 - [60] The Destroyer still has a place in EVE, I think.
JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:14:00 - [61] My alts cormorant, aka, LOLorant, gets 88km optimal with Spike and 150mm T2 rails. Hi 7x150mm Railgun II Mid 2xTracking Computer II 2xSensor Booster II Lo Micro Auxillary Power Core I Need to train AWU up and remove the power core to get a field stab in there, hopefully. "Return with your shield, or on it."
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:26:00 - [62] I imagine there will be a significant price difference between dictors and heavy dictors. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Torze The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:37:00 - [63] How about CCP bring mines back in the game. Destroyers role bonus could be to find/remove mine fields.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:43:00 - [64] drop the silly ROF penilty, and when the AF lobby whines tell them destroyers are their counter and to bring cruisers.
Corstaad Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:24:00 - [65] I really don't understand this whole thread. Just because T2 versions are better doesn't mean they need to buff T1's. Its a cheap, easy to get into frig or pod popper. With this same logic we should buff Rifters because of AFs.
Efernal Caldari Moonlight Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:26:00 - [66] Why not have a new class of destroyer called salvage barge? give it 4 low slots 1 med slot and 5 turret slots. Twice the power of a regular destroyer, slower and with increased cargo room. --------------------------------------------------- Xaen said, "You just made baby jesus cry so much he died of dehydration."
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Efernal Why not have a new class of destroyer called salvage barge? give it 4 low slots 1 med slot and 5 turret slots. Twice the power of a regular destroyer, slower and with increased cargo room. The Rampager! Salvager class ship. Hull model ORE. Skills: Industrial V Destroyer V. Salvaging V. Whatnot added thingies. Industrial skill bonus: 10% to cargo space /level. Destroyer skill bonus: 5% increase to salvaging speed and the Pulse Tractor Module speed of retrieval. 95% reduction in CPU need of Pulse Tractor Module. 2000 cargo. 800 shield. 900 armor. And other measurements as well. 8 high slots. 2 medium slots. 6 low slots. And now the kicker... Pulse Tractor Module A 20km range pulse Tractor Module for can/wreck retrieval. Brings any can/wreck, owned by the operator to the ship, from a 20km range around the ship. Some technical data here. Other data here. Tadaa! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:03:00 - [68] Make that 40 km tractor range and you win EVE :P
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:16:00 - [69] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Make that 40 km tractor range and you win EVE :P Switched things around a bit bonus wise My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:11:00 - [70] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:15:14 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:13:08 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:11:32 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Let's keep it to making a t2 destroyer that is the counter to the t2 frigate known as an "Interceptor" How would we make it the intywtfbbq special mobile? This ship should also handidly win vs. T1 Cruisers, just like an Interceptor would cream a T1 Destroyer, but it should not be able to win vs. any competent T2 Cruiser. It could described as an Assault Destroyer, as opposed to an EWAR Destroyer which is the Dictor?
Manerethen The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:12:00 - [71] In my opinion the destroyer is only good as a salvager for a mission, or even a very early mining ship. I love the Caldari Cormorant, its an awesome looking ship and i agree it needs some loving. As for it being used in 0.0 i have never seen anyone, or even anyone talking about using a destroyer in a gang. It would be cool if they became proper inty killers, as a specific role that should have, like all of the other ships. It has the potential to be an awesome ship, but its just not.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:23:00 - [72] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/10/2007 19:27:00 Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Well it WAS intended as a new ship, not as a T2 destroyer. I know, bit off-topic but just a thought and since the can was open... "plain yuck" is a bit...well...non-constructive still My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:27:00 - [73] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:15:14 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:13:08 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:11:32 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Let's keep it to making a t2 destroyer that is the counter to the t2 frigate known as an "Interceptor" How would we make it the intywtfbbq special mobile? This ship should also handidly win vs. T1 Cruisers, just like an Interceptor would cream a T1 Destroyer, but it should not be able to win vs. any competent T2 Cruiser. It could described as an Assault Destroyer, as opposed to an EWAR Destroyer which is the Dictor? Medium Assault Destroyer, M.A.D. - Based off Tier1 T1 Destroyers. A slight increase in power grid and cpu, a 20% increase in shield/armor/hull hitpoints and t2 resists. Amarr +1 low Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed and -10% reduction in Small Energy Turret Capacitor usage per level Medium Assault Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to small turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level Penalty: -25% rate of fire for all turrets, Bonus: 50% bonus to optimal range for small energy turrets 99.5% reduction in the CPU and 90% reduction in power grid need of Warfare Link modules. Caldari +1 medium Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed and 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range per level Medium Assault Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to small turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level Penalty: -25% rate of fire for all turrets, Bonus: 50% bonus to optimal range for small hybrid turrets 99.5% reduction in the CPU and 90% reduction in power grid need of Warfare Link modules. Gallente +1 low Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% Bonus to Small Hybrid Turret tracking speed and 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level Medium Assault Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to small hybrid turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level Penalty: -25% rate of fire for all turrets, Bonus: 50% bonus to optimal range for small hybrid turrets 99.5% reduction in the CPU and 90% reduction in power grid need of Warfare Link modules. Minmatar +1 medium Destroyer Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed and 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage per level Medium Assault Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to small projectile turret rate of fire and 7.5% bonus to shield boosting per level Penalty: -25% Rate Of Fire for all turrets, Bonus: 50% bonus to optimal range for small projectile turrets 99.5% reduction in the CPU and 90% reduction in power grid need of Warfare Link modules.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:15:14 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:13:08 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:11:32 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Let's keep it to making a t2 destroyer that is the counter to the t2 frigate known as an "Interceptor" How would we make it the intywtfbbq special mobile? This ship should also handidly win vs. T1 Cruisers, just like an Interceptor would cream a T1 Destroyer, but it should not be able to win vs. any competent T2 Cruiser. It could described as an Assault Destroyer, as opposed to an EWAR Destroyer which is the Dictor? But how are interdictors E-War destroyers? They don't receive any bonuses to electronic warfare. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:34:00 - [75] Originally by: Nian Banks Amarr +1 low All good except... Make that a mid slot and i'm really game, come on, 1 mid slot makes baby jovians cry My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:36:00 - [76] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Nian Banks Amarr +1 low All good except... Make that a mid slot and i'm really game, come on, 1 mid slot makes baby jovians cry No come on, if its good enough for CCP to kick amarr in the guts while they are down, I think its good enough for me too :) Ok so how about +1 to low and medium slots for all? ;)
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:45:00 - [77] Originally by: Nian Banks No come on, if its good enough for CCP to kick amarr in the guts while they are down, I think its good enough for me too :) Ok so how about +1 to low and medium slots for all? ;) But CCP kicks us with fluffy slippers, other people kick with steel boots with spikes on them Hey, i'm not greedy, others can have even 2 mid slots, i just want my 5-6 low, 2mid, 8 high, 8 turret, super destroyer My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:22:00 - [78] Originally by: Hozac Drop the RoF penalty. Agreed. C. Piratise Low Sec! or Eve on Hard Mode (idea)
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:27:00 - [79] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:15:14 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:13:08 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:11:32 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Let's keep it to making a t2 destroyer that is the counter to the t2 frigate known as an "Interceptor" How would we make it the intywtfbbq special mobile? This ship should also handidly win vs. T1 Cruisers, just like an Interceptor would cream a T1 Destroyer, but it should not be able to win vs. any competent T2 Cruiser. It could described as an Assault Destroyer, as opposed to an EWAR Destroyer which is the Dictor? But how are interdictors E-War destroyers? They don't receive any bonuses to electronic warfare. That my friend is quite simple, look at the interceptor as it will be now, it has ewar bonuses, now lets look at the Interdiction Sphere Launcher I, this module is under the electronic warfare catagory for modules. So Interdictors that require as a skill 'interceptor' and also are made for Interdiction Sphere Launcher I's means that Prereq skill is Ewar, Made for module that is ewar makes it an Ewar Ship. Thats how it is. Its not a true Destroyer T2. Its just a large interceptor. Gimme a MAD. I want to fly a MAD, something with enough firepower to down t1 cruisers without fear and a tank to go toe to toe with a t1 cruiser. Its only fair, the ship probably would cost 30m unfitted.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:01:00 - [80] Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 22:03:30 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Christari Zuborov Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:15:14 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:13:08 Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 30/10/2007 19:11:32 Originally by: Sheriff Jones ...lots of words... No offense, but yuck, just plain yuck. Let's keep it to making a t2 destroyer that is the counter to the t2 frigate known as an "Interceptor" How would we make it the intywtfbbq special mobile? This ship should also handidly win vs. T1 Cruisers, just like an Interceptor would cream a T1 Destroyer, but it should not be able to win vs. any competent T2 Cruiser. It could described as an Assault Destroyer, as opposed to an EWAR Destroyer which is the Dictor? But how are interdictors E-War destroyers? They don't receive any bonuses to electronic warfare. I don't know, Force Recon? ^^^^^^^^ Nian Banks explained it.
Selnix Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:33:00 - [81] Originally by: Phelan Lore I can't really see why they would remove the interdictor level 4 prereq from heavy dictors. No joke. You can't fly a HAC without having AF IV first and can't fly a Recon without having Cov Ops IV first.... So why the frak can any old idiot with cruiser V and a couple of other skills hop in a Heavy Interdictor without having Interdictors IV?
Commander Prishe Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.10.31 00:08:00 - [82] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/10/2007 18:16:42 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/10/2007 18:15:18 Originally by: Efernal Why not have a new class of destroyer called salvage barge? give it 4 low slots 1 med slot and 5 turret slots. Twice the power of a regular destroyer, slower and with increased cargo room. The Rampager! Salvager class ship. Hull model ORE. Skills: Industrial V Destroyer V. Salvaging V. Whatnot added thingies. Industrial skill bonus: 10% to cargo space /level. Destroyer skill bonus: 5% increase to salvaging speed /level. Salvager ship bonus: 10% increase to Pulse Tractor Module range /level and 5% increase to the Pulse Tractor Module speed of retrieval /level. 95% reduction in CPU need of Pulse Tractor Module. 2000 cargo. 800 shield. 900 armor. And other measurements as well. 8 high slots. 2 medium slots. 6 low slots. And now the kicker... Pulse Tractor Module A 20km range pulse Tractor Module for can/wreck retrieval. Brings any can/wreck, owned by the operator to the ship, from a 20km range around the ship. Some technical data here. Other data here. Tadaa! Oh yeah this would rock
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.31 00:37:00 - [83] Originally by: Manerethen As for it being used in 0.0 i have never seen anyone, or even anyone talking about using a destroyer in a gang. It would be cool if they became proper inty killers, as a specific role that should have, like all of the other ships. It has the potential to be an awesome ship, but its just not. Ever heard of Agony Unleashed?
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.31 01:41:00 - [84] I believe that the scripting for sensor boosters and tracking computers will resuscitate destroyers and give them a role once again.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.10.31 02:02:00 - [85] destroys are one of the few ship classes that in general are well balanced a few different type of t1 destroyers might not hurt ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Reven Darklight 256 FREELANCERS Black Scope Project	Posted - 2007.10.31 05:33:00 - [86] from what i understand about Caldari is that missiles are their primary weapon, I've always wondered by the caldari destoryer has gun slots and not missile slots. I'd like to see a missile destroyer for Caldari, or is this going to make the caldari destoryer too powerful? I can easily say i have 8 or so destoryers spread around the various places i hang out, all fitted exactly the same. 4 salvages, 2 tractor beams 1 Y-S8(?) cruiser AB 1 or 2 overdrive injectors, depends if its a thrasher or a caldari destoryer. I've gotten the thrasher up over 1400, and the cal over 1100, not for long of course the cruiser AB eats cap like crazy, but I'll get a very good distance very fast before i run out
NerfBat Wack Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.31 05:42:00 - [87] NERF DESTROYERS NOW! WHACK! Notify: you have been smacked by the nerf bat, you are now yet another worthless eve relic.
Ominus Decre The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.31 05:47:00 - [88] Originally by: AntonioBanderas Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 00:24:37 all they're used is for salvageing. tell me when did you see destroyer in 0.0 battle? They're used. There's just a generally poor understanding of them to allow their strengths to be easily identified. Perversion:
Ominus Decre The Older Gamers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.31 05:51:00 - [89] Originally by: Paulo Damarr The Destroyer should be an awesome ship but they are simply to fragile for their speed and sig radius. Maybe a severe hit point buff closer to cruiser HP levels but keeping frigate weapons would let them carry out their role of frigate death dealers but cruisers would still make mincemeat of them. Not sure if this would be overpowered or not though. 2400+ armor on a Coercer with dps 200+ is decent. Can get the dps a lot higher if you're not using Lasers although your armor's hitpoints will suffer. A true t2 variant is needed. What about an Assualt Destroyer? Perversion:
Altterra	Posted - 2007.10.31 06:17:00 - [90] actually the idea of assault destroyers appeals to me a lot, i always loved the destroyers, but due to their obvious... "disadvantages" in PvP i've stopped flying them into anything serious. It would be cool to have assault destroyers, because unlike frigates, the normal destroyers can only get better then they currently are... unless CCP decides to remove gunslots of course... Assault destroyers.. /signed
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.31 06:27:00 - [91] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Manerethen As for it being used in 0.0 i have never seen anyone, or even anyone talking about using a destroyer in a gang. It would be cool if they became proper inty killers, as a specific role that should have, like all of the other ships. It has the potential to be an awesome ship, but its just not. Ever heard of Agony Unleashed? Bwahahaha, I was just about to post it myself!
HelloKitty ToYou	Posted - 2007.10.31 06:58:00 - [92] I'll sign for assault destroyers too, a good T2 attack variant to offset the dictor.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:16:00 - [93] if you guys all make them change dessies to salvagers, im going to come to your houses and spank you all silly :P DESTROYers.... they need to make stuff for salvagers to salvage :P _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Savlin Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:23:00 - [94] Sign assault destroyers. Drop rof penalty and I am happy. Perhaps with some resist as well. Make a separate salvager class to not to confuse the devs with what they should do and let the dessys pew pew some friggies. Thats what they made for, not scrapheap challenge.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:40:00 - [95] Hm, i have 2, 1 catalyst and a thrasher. I use the thrasher as a salvager cuz at the time i did not have any other destroyers lying around and i was too cheap to either buy me another one or build me one. It serves my purpose so i see no need to get me another anyways. The Catalyst is in a far away station, i used it when i was younger and still mining to get rid of beltrats and cuz everyone should atleast have 1 combat ship close by even if ur just mining. It's still there afaik, mebbe i should pick it up one of these days. Sadly destroyers are a bit pointless, tbh i see no real reason to get into one cept for salvaging, for anything else there is nothing that either a frig can do faster or a cruiser can do better. Mebbe ccp should make a real T2 destroyer that could omgwtfpwnbbq T2 frigs. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Khurrak	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:03:00 - [96] Edited by: Khurrak on 31/10/2007 19:05:02 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker drop the silly ROF penilty, and when the AF lobby whines tell them destroyers are their counter and to bring cruisers. this Originally by: Daan Sai I love flying my destroyer (Caty) but the destroyer class is just soo easy to pop it has been relegated to be the "Janitor of Eve", cleaning up after the mission mess. Sad for such a fun ship to fly. The sig radius/HP range they sit in makes them so vulnerable they are just not practical in combat with a range of ships as opposition. Halve their sig radius and you'd get the super frigate you'd expect them to be. Still stopable, but able to gang up on BSs in actual comat. and this. Originally by: AntonioBanderas Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 30/10/2007 09:27:31 Originally by: Demje Edited by: Demje on 30/10/2007 07:59:14 I always felt destroyers should be the counter to all frigate sized ships, but theyre nearly as weak as frigates themselves as well as being slower and larger sig radius. How about each level also reduces signiture radius by 5% and increases speed by 2%. that will give them a little needed boost in speed to be able to chase those frigs around, and make them slightly harder for cruisers to hit. theyre so easy to get killed by cruisers. this. and additional low or mid slot. that woudl make them actually useful. A destroyer should be something between a frig and a cruiser, he should eat frigs and be food for cruisers. But at this point theyre useless ships, fun to fly in rather big gangs of experienced pilots just for laughs, but otherwise, they're salvageing beatches. And they have souch a huge potential... And it's sad, 'cause i love my dessy. this too. all destroyers need an extra slot where they lack, so amarr needs another mid, caldari another low, etc. they need a slight reduction in sig radius so they arent one shotted by cruisers, but they should be the counter to all smaller ships. RoF penalty isnt that bad, but it could be toned down a bit. speed and sig radius are how frigates get around cruisers. cruisers dont even require a web to hit a destroyer. my feeling is that there should be a zero point comparison, such as all equal skilled pilots and no modules other than guns, and in this comparison, destroyer should be the clear winner against one or even two frigs, while cruiser should be the clear winner against destroyer, but the time it takes for each fight to conclude between the matches should be similar. as it is right now, destroyers go pop a lot faster to cruiser guns than frigs to destroyers, because of the RoF penalty, however removing the RoF penalty would just keep them as a glass cannon, so how about some sig reduction? though If it was a choice between another mid or low slot for all desys depending on the race, I might be more apt to choose that, since you could put on a tank module that you wouldnt have been able to before, and perhaps resist a little more cruiser fire.
Allestin Villimar Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:04:00 - [97] They're pretty good for ganking frigs in low sec and warping away before the gate guns kill you. ...in bed.
AntonioBanderas Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.31 22:55:00 - [98] Originally by: 000Hunter000 Sadly destroyers are a bit pointless, tbh i see no real reason to get into one cept for salvaging, for anything else there is nothing that either a frig can do faster or a cruiser can do better. ^this

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