(moved from general discussion)

Hi-sec is not hi-sec when gankers can pop you with impunity. Concord is worthles in these matters. Nor is there a court system in EVE to collect damages from the offender.

The insurance nerf means nothing to someone with deep pockets. There has to be a more painful deterent.

But what?

Answer: Capital Punishment + Account based fine+ No killmail.


1. concord will not just destroy your ship but also pod you.

2. EVE has account based limits in place (for example, training only one character at a time). Since criminals like to hide behind such limits and imposing fines on a toon with empty pockets is pointless , there should be an account based isk fine imposed equal to the insurance payoff to the vicitim, if not more.

3. Denial of killmail. HI-sec ganking should not give the crminal bragging rights. Deny killmails for all illegal hi-sec ganking.


These three ideas, if implemented will give hi-sec gankers something to think about. It may not eliminate it, but it will reduce it.

Hi-sec is not hi-sec when gankers can pop you with impunity. Concord is worthles in these matters. Nor is there a court system in EVE to collect damages from the offender.

Hi-sec is not hi-sec

when gankers can pop you with impunity.

Concord is worthles in these matters.

Nor is there a court system in EVE to collect damages from the offender.

There certainly isn't.

[quote=Faceless Lady]The insurance nerf means nothing to someone with deep pockets.

There has to be a more painful deterent.

Answer: Capital Punishment + Account based fine+ No killmail.

I'm motivated to toss my hat in the ring and add that the OP's comments could have legitimate merits for game mechanics.

high sec dwellers face severe consequences for wandering into nullsec regions (currently delve as an example), destroying something valuable or killing and podding a major alliance member or asset however the reverse scenario as the OP pointed out is pretty much imbalanced game mechanics.

If someone from highsec went out to any large nullsec alliance sov controlled territory and started ganking the npc repercussions would me minimal or non existant based on current game mechanics however the alliance which controls sov would likely eradicate your pod at the first sighting anywhere in the universe.

If you follow I hope you can see how the "impunity" the OP mentioned in definitely not singular but a duality that could be enhanced upon to add new game dynamics to eve universe affecting global criminals.

Repercussions should be omnipotent in all areas of eve space null to highsec possibly excluding empire sov controlled lowsec where concord currently does not reside.

Facing imminent threat of loosing your ship and a security standing or contact standing demerit in highsec is more cosmetic than an effective deterrent. if you were a highsec dweller decided to go on a roam in delve and shoot up any pos or outpost you came across the repercussions would certainly not be met with impunity from the controlling alliance. I've been playing eve for nearly 4 years and have always been curious how this could be overlooked as potential for adding a new paradigm for the game's pvp mechanics.

My point exactly. Very well stated.

"Both so wrong"

How is it "wrong" to openly discuss game design potential that could offer permanent highsec dwellers a level playing field with nullsec alliances.

"but you'll never listen to anything anybody says because it doesn't suit you."

what doesn't suit me is that the silent majority of eve players have become accustomed to pvp game mechanics imbalance that offers preference to nullsec alliances that have no repercussions for undertaking what really amounts to military conquest of high sec npc alliance controlled space.

If you have anything to add feel free to offer something constructive other than the usual rhyme everyone in eve seems to have in the last 8 years that it's fine and "it's eve" which does nothing to address evolution of new game design potential.

npc dwellers have no other choice but to enjoy the side effects of nullsec conquest and most could not do anything to offer challenge in return hence the imbalance of game mechanics

Now if npc corp members could participate in sov warfare that would indeed be an interesting "evolution" to the game's mechanics. While we do have faction warfare that has really done nothing to address these long standing issues.

"You realise you look like entitled brats who stamp their little feet when their balloon pops."

I realise your likely a director of a nullsec alliance that feels entitled to roam highsec and do what pleases you with little repercussions. if I were to fly out to your alliance controlled space and start what would most likely be a short rampage of destruction feeling entitled to do so it wouldn't be met with a free pass to leave with my assets.

These three ideas, if implemented will give hi-sec gankers something to think about. It may not eliminate it, but it will reduce it.

"Both so wrong"

How is it "wrong" to openly discuss game design potential that could offer permanent highsec dwellers a level playing field with nullsec alliances.

"but you'll never listen to anything anybody says because it doesn't suit you."

what doesn't suit me is that the silent majority of eve players have become accustomed to pvp game mechanics imbalance that offers preference to nullsec alliances that have no repercussions for undertaking what really amounts to military conquest of high sec npc alliance controlled space.

If you have anything to add feel free to offer something constructive other than the usual rhyme everyone in eve seems to have in the last 8 years that it's fine and "it's eve" which does nothing to address evolution of new game design potential.

npc dwellers have no other choice but to enjoy the side effects of nullsec conquest and most could not do anything to offer challenge in return hence the imbalance of game mechanics

Now if npc corp members could participate in sov warfare that would indeed be an interesting "evolution" to the game's mechanics. While we do have faction warfare that has really done nothing to address these long standing issues.

"You realise you look like entitled brats who stamp their little feet when their balloon pops."

I realise your likely a director of a nullsec alliance that feels entitled to roam highsec and do what pleases you with little repercussions. if I were to fly out to your alliance controlled space and start what would most likely be a short rampage of destruction feeling entitled to do so it wouldn't be met with a free pass to leave with my assets.

"Both so wrong"

How is it "wrong" to openly discuss game design potential that could offer permanent highsec dwellers a level playing field with nullsec alliances.

"but you'll never listen to anything anybody says because it doesn't suit you."

what doesn't suit me is that the silent majority of eve players have become accustomed to pvp game mechanics imbalance that offers preference to nullsec alliances that have no repercussions for undertaking what really amounts to military conquest of high sec npc alliance controlled space.

If you have anything to add feel free to offer something constructive other than the usual rhyme everyone in eve seems to have in the last 8 years that it's fine and "it's eve" which does nothing to address evolution of new game design potential.

npc dwellers have no other choice but to enjoy the side effects of nullsec conquest and most could not do anything to offer challenge in return hence the imbalance of game mechanics

Now if npc corp members could participate in sov warfare that would indeed be an interesting "evolution" to the game's mechanics. While we do have faction warfare that has really done nothing to address these long standing issues.

"You realise you look like entitled brats who stamp their little feet when their balloon pops."

I realise your likely a director of a nullsec alliance that feels entitled to roam highsec and do what pleases you with little repercussions. if I were to fly out to your alliance controlled space and start what would most likely be a short rampage of destruction feeling entitled to do so it wouldn't be met with a free pass to leave with my assets.

Why should gankers be punished beyond ship loss through game mechanics?

Hi-sec is not hi-sec when gankers can pop you with impunity.

The insurance nerf means nothing to someone with deep pockets. There has to be a more painful deterent.

1. Concord will not just destroy your ship but also pod you.

2. EVE has account based limits in place (for example, training only one character at a time). Since criminals like to hide behind such limits and imposing fines on a toon with empty pockets is pointless, there should be an account based isk fine imposed equal to the insurance payoff to the vicitim, if not more.

3. Denial of killmail. HI-sec ganking should not give the crminal bragging rights.

When 5M ISK ships can kill 200M ISK ships.

When 5M ISK ships can kill 200M ISK ships.

When 5M ISK ships can kill 200M ISK ships.

Anything that promotes further difficulty to ganking in high sec I agree with in prinicpal.

The imbalance afforded here is ridiculous.

There is no and hasnt been a working bounty system for ages. Other mechanics work in their favour, as per the mentioned war dec prinicipals, gankers can maniuplate the corporation systems too easily for reprisal.

Emphasis in this game seems to be it should be a risk/reward process. Yet the rewards for attacking soft targets with relative impunity does not reflect this model.

Gankers have it too easy. Make it harder, but don't eliminate it.

Anything that promotes further difficulty to ganking in high sec I agree with in prinicpal.
Gankers have it too easy. Make it harder, but don't eliminate it.

Seems what you're looking for is already in the game. Use the below as necessary.

1. Concord will not just destroy your ship but also pod you.

3. Denial of killmail. HI-sec ganking should not give the crminal bragging rights. Deny killmails for all illegal hi-sec ganking.

This and this is what I would love to see.

CONCORD should just pod their ass into oblivion, reduce their SP count even with an updated clone, and shoot them on site at gates while traveling AFK in a pod...cause its a cold harsh universe and they should be reminded of it everytime they drop below -5 that some equilibrium should be maintained. I would pod them myself, but **** if I am to lazy to bother.

Killmails. Gamer's crumple and cry like a little girl when you touch them in the naughty place their score. Implement a buy back system of your killmail, for 2 million isk for each one like a wardec. Guy is bragging to his buds..."Hey check out this hulk kill...*silence over Vent, followed by an explosion of anger* OMFG! THAT NEWB ***** COWARD TOOK IT BACK!!!"

Yeah, will never happen. But would be nice if they did

It funny. Topic like this is get many argue but if so many feel strong for two side it usually are problem.

Yeah, will never happen. But would be nice if they did

This most definitely is a problem

This most definitely is a problem but, I prefer to address problems with the most immersive solutions. So what would we do in real life?

Escorts! The least NPC corps can do for their 11% tax is provide you with a faction navy escort. The size and capabilities of your escorts should depend directly on your standing with the faction, all the way down to -9, and inversely on the security level of the system you're in, all the way out to 0.1 systems. If you commit an offense, you get attacked by your victims escorts as well as your own.

In what way is it a problem?

As for the escorts, they already exist. People just choose not to do them.

What happens when you die?
What do your escorts do?
And what happens when we kill them too?

Too much fun for criminals, not enough fun for victims.

NPC escorts, not player escorts.

"I want NPCs to solve all of my problems for me in the popular single-player game EVE Online"

Why are they needed when a solution already exists?

This most definitely is a problem but, I prefer to address problems with the most immersive solutions. So what would we do in real life?

Escorts! The least NPC corps can do for their 11% tax is provide you with a faction navy escort. The size and capabilities of your escorts should depend directly on your standing with the faction, all the way down to -9, and inversely on the security level of the system you're in, all the way out to 0.1 systems. If you commit an offense, you get attacked by your victims escorts as well as your own.

Pirate corps are not a solution to piracy. That's why:

"I want NPCs to solve all of my problems for me in the popular single-player game EVE Online"

Seems what you're looking for is already in the game. Use the below as necessary.

"long list of t1 and t2 mods for shield, armor, and haul"
(edited for brevity)

tl;dr

None of which help the rookies who fly frigates and destroyers and don't have the skills for t2 modules.

But I expect no less from a player who's avatar looks afflicted with microcephaly.

I respawn in station, buy another ship, and undock with a new escort.
My last escort fights you until they die or destroy your ship.
If you're still there, then you face an increasing number of both
navy and CONCORD ships until your ship pops.

Any more stupid questions, either of you?

Pirate corps are not a solution to piracy. That's why:

If Concord gets involved then it is obviously a criminal act. So I see the differences in system sec as a robber wanting to rob a well protected bank (1.0) versus robing an abandoned house (0.5).

1. No killmail. That is a must.

2. Dropped loot is inaccessible and made available to the victim only. Not to passersby or the criminal's backup.

3. ISK fine equal to victim's insurance payoff imposed on the criminal. Giving him a negative account if he doesn't have it.

These three thing would curb ganking.

That is unless CCP like things the way they are...which means nothing will change and the game will continue to be unbalanced in the name of being "hardcore."

Actually, CCP does like it this way. Otherwise they would've made it so you can't even activate an offensive module in highsec against a player without a wardec.

Then the question remains, does CCP like my sub-money more than their unbalanced "hardcore" game features?

-1 sub

If Concord gets involved then it is obviously a criminal act. So I see the differences in system sec as a robber wanting to rob a well protected bank (1.0) versus robing an abandoned house (0.5).

1. No killmail. That is a must.

2. Dropped loot is inaccessible and made available to the victim only. Not to passersby or the criminal's backup.

3. ISK fine equal to victim's insurance payoff imposed on the criminal. Giving him a negative account if he doesn't have it.

These three thing would curb ganking.

That is unless CCP like things the way they are...which means nothing will change and the game will continue to be unbalanced in the name of being "hardcore."

wow 1 sub CCP is hurting right now

The risk of being suicide ganked is part of high-sec gameplay. Deal with it.

Child, you seem to forget something. CCP is first and foremost a business. There product? Entertainment.

When an element of your customers no longer feel it is entertaining but rather unfairly frustrating due to some internal mechanic which they see as faulty...those customers will walk. Granted all games have their elements of risk, but there is also balance.

Did I mention CCP is first and foremost a bu$ine$$? An unsatisfied customer is a deficit to CCP.

All you barbarians have null and low sec to slaughter each other with. But when you interfere with trading and mining and hauling in Hi-Sec and all Concord does is slap you on the wrist, then the game is not balanced and it ceases to be fun for those that enjoy the more cerebral pursuits of EVE.

Ceases to be fun...and "fun" is what games are all about. For all parties...both pirates and carebears.

As it stands now, EVE is a pirate's game. Everything else about the player run economy and hi-sec and other spreadsheet BS that may attract those that enjoy those aspects of the game is just cosmetic fluff to draw in an unsuspecting crowd. EVE as it stands now is Carebear deficient both in features and support. Pirates however have it pretty good.

Lastly, one big difference between you and me.....I can walk away from something that is broken and spend my money elsewhere. Unlike you who cant.

It's not for the entitlement crowd, and we pay our subs as well, you aren't the only ones keeping CCP going, we've been doing it up until you came into the game and I have a strange feeling we'll keep on doing it after you leave. Don't like the movie? Don't watch it! Don't like the pizza? Don't eat it! Don't like the way the game works? Get a bit pet lip and stamp your feet like a spoiled brat.

CCP even said it themselves in this video, which you may have seen at some point

Working as intended. Ganking fuels industry, which balances the economy.

Next whining carebear.

Well then, perhaps they (CCP) should stop sending out all those "discounted re-sub" emails. Obviously CCP has all of you to keep it afloat. It certainly doesn't need me nor my money. Right?

Perhaps a DEV can chime in and confirm that for me.

If you feel you matter so much, why not contact CCP directly? Keep us posted on the response.

Ganking reduces subs. Working as intended?

If you unsub over some exploded pixels, this game was never meant for you.

Those exploded pixels translate into lost ISK, and lost ISK translates into lost resources and game time both in the grind and in the potential to buy/sell PLEX.

It's more than just a pretty explosion....but I'm sure that is all you get out of it on your end.

Ganking reduces subs. Working as intended?

Sorry if the game is such a grind for you, really I am.

Once you understand ganking is legal, anywhere; you will appreciate the game more.

And I'm sorry the game is so poorly unbalanced in ganker's favor. Really I am.

And I'm sorry the game is so poorly unbalanced in ganker's favor. Really I am.

And I'm sorry the game is so poorly unbalanced in ganker's favor. Really I am.

No, the game is heavily bonused towards towards carebears. You just to lazy to figure out how to avoid getting ganked.

This most definitely is a problem but, I prefer to address problems with the most immersive solutions. So what would we do in real life?

Escorts! The least NPC corps can do for their 11% tax is provide you with a faction navy escort. The size and capabilities of your escorts should depend directly on your standing with the faction, all the way down to -9, and inversely on the security level of the system you're in, all the way out to 0.1 systems. If you commit an offense, you get attacked by your victims escorts as well as your own.

Then the question remains, does CCP like my sub-money more than their unbalanced "hardcore" game features?

-1 sub

Hi sec is now far safer than it's ever been and yet you still whine.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=720507#post720507

Right.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=720507#post720507

Right.

... when a player moves 500 million in valuables with an iteron, rather than a tanked battleship.

It is very telling by some of the "con" arguments in this thread how people play the game. At no point in any of those arguments does anyone mention anything about balance...just that it is always the victim's fault for getting ganked. By either being unprepared, undertanked, unescorted, or just plain having valuable cargo.

Yet, if the same was asked of the ganker then suddenly I am asking the game be skewed too much in the carebear's favor. The hypocrisy in some of these replies is remarkable since all it takes is a disposable alt, a cheap ship and a sadistic pleasure in griefing others to gank with negligible losses.

For those of you that can only think in black and white terms, this thread is not about eliminated ganking altogether...but about making it as painful to the ganker IN HI-SEC as it is to the victim.

As it stands now, it is a free-for all ganker's paradise in EVE regardless of sec region.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=720507#post720507

Right.

I support this idea, and that is FINAL. It would help the rookie population significantly, but you are all too lazy to think about it.

I support this idea, and that is FINAL. It would help the rookie population significantly, but you are all too lazy to think about it.

Almost correct. Highsec is high security. It is not 100% safe; the only place you are 100% safe is in a station. This is why CCP warns you not to fly something you cannot afford.

The rest of it? Well, that is why you need to learn to avoid them, to use the tools you have to stay safe and so forth.

There are no PvE servers or safe zones in EVE; nor should there be. This is EVE.

You are under the false assumption that you should have virtual immunity in highsec. It is called.. HIGH security.. security is high, but not flawless.

Hi-sec should not be 100% safe. That having been said, hi-sec should be 100% of a problem for gankers outside of wardecs. SInce jihaddists and 0.0 based gankers dont use wardecs, maybe we should just increase the punishments.

Make all jihaddists pay isk for each kill. In full. Right down to implant, module and cargo value of destroyed ships.

If you dont wanna pay for your gank, pay for your wardec.

So basically... to dissuade lol-ganking you want to completely nuke profit-ganking?

Also... explain to me how this will stop lol-gankers from making alt accounts with no ISK or value of any sort?

Two last things...
- how can you engage a corp when everyone in it can simply "jump ship" before any fighting starts and/or uses the "Dec-shield" tactic to get rid of the wardec entirely?
- how else can you engage an enemy's/target's freighter alt when he/she has the character permanently sitting in an NPC corp?

1) Yes. Jihaddists who don't like having their profit nuked with hisec griefing should have their profits nuked more often until they learn to like it.

2) It wont. But CCP should just take the isk from the alt account's wallets even if they dont have it.

3) You engage them with effort. Dec shielding mechanic working as intended.

4) You join the NPC corp and try ganking it from there. Or you can grow a pair and gank jfs out in the ghetto/0.0.

you come off bitter.