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Heavy interdictors: the end of transport ships?

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Digital Anarchist Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:16:00 - [1] Since a HIC will get to use its bubble generator as an infinite-point disruptor, will this mean no haulers will manage to get through low sec gate camps? ------------------------ This space for rent
Benn Helmsman Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:32:00 - [2] You are sure they can use the bubble in low sec? I thought they can only use the "focused" Mom-scrambling there.
Digital Anarchist Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:36:00 - [3] So focusing will only affect supercapitals? ------------------------ This space for rent
Aleyah Dawnborn Caldari SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:37:00 - [4] Aye. It's to stop them smartbombing moms in low-sec :p It can't use it's normal warp disruption in any other place than null sec. --- My God! It's logic! Flee!
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:30:00 - [5] Ok, youre all wrong. Or typed wrong. * bubble effect works only in null-null. It has one (1) point of scram, as opposed to all other bubbles' infinite scram. * focused effect is 1 point of scram and requires lock. Basically a warp scrambler with 1 major difference; it works on motherships. When scripted this way the warp disruption field works in low sec. But to the casual stabbed hauler pilot its just another scram that wont have any affect.

CCP Mindstar	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Draahk Chimera Ok, youre all wrong. Or typed wrong. * bubble effect works only in null-null. It has one (1) point of scram, as opposed to all other bubbles' infinite scram. * focused effect is 1 point of scram and requires lock. Basically a warp scrambler with 1 major difference; it works on motherships. When scripted this way the warp disruption field works in low sec. But to the casual stabbed hauler pilot its just another scram that wont have any affect. Just to correct these points. As it stands on Sisi at the moment, the following applies:- * The bubble effect works the same as interdictor bubbles do, only it is attached to the Heavy Interdictor itself. * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. -- The cake is a lie!

Malachi Nefzen Caldari Insane Decision	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:03:00 - [7] regardless of point str, a smart transport ship pilot can break through just about any lowsec gate camp
Vitelius Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:06:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Originally by: Draahk Chimera Ok, youre all wrong. Or typed wrong. * bubble effect works only in null-null. It has one (1) point of scram, as opposed to all other bubbles' infinite scram. * focused effect is 1 point of scram and requires lock. Basically a warp scrambler with 1 major difference; it works on motherships. When scripted this way the warp disruption field works in low sec. But to the casual stabbed hauler pilot its just another scram that wont have any affect. Just to correct these points. As it stands on Sisi at the moment, the following applies:- * The bubble effect works the same as interdictor bubbles do. * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. This is disturbing indeed. Suddenly warp core stabs are pretty much obsolete and the blockade runners just got nerfed if those stats are going to be final. You can bet that every pirate gang is going to use one tanked heavy dictor to catch everything coming through that doesn't manage to cold warp away. This also pretty effectively nerfs low sec and makes people want to avoid it even more than before. This combined with all the carrier logistics nerfs to come and the CCP's hopes for more "convoy action"... does sound disturbing indeed. On the other hand it encourages escorting, which can lead to more battles and anti-pirate activity in low sec. Then again it's yet another move that encourages blobbing, meaning that lone ships get more reluctant to travel through low sec , which again leads to bigger pirate camps simply because they want to camp safely . I hope the stats get changed to not provide infinite strength to those warp disruptors. ---
Maximillian Dragonard	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:25:00 - [9] 1) HIC has cruiser sensor str, which makes it rather slow to target compared to most tacklers.. 2) Blockade runners warp so freaking fast that the odds of getting locked in low sec are slim.. I regularly zip through low sec gatecamps on my alt in a crane. I never even get time to see an attempted lock before I'm in warp ____________________ EWAR... love it or hate it.... learn to deal with it!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:26:00 - [10] Awesome news. Now I actually have a reason to train one of these ships. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:29:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Originally by: Draahk Chimera * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. With other words blockade runners and lowsec trading will be a thing of the past.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:09:00 - [12] Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:14:12 Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:10:37 Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard 1) HIC has cruiser sensor str, which makes it rather slow to target compared to most tacklers.. 2) Blockade runners warp so freaking fast that the odds of getting locked in low sec are slim.. I regularly zip through low sec gatecamps on my alt in a crane. I never even get time to see an attempted lock before I'm in warp A Devoter with 3 sensor boosters (chosen as it can fit sensor boosters and still tank sentries) will take around 1.1-1.3 sec to lock a blockade runner. An agility fitted crane (2x polycarbons + 2 local hull inertia stabs) take 2.8 sec to get into warp. Add lag and it's going to be very close. And in a lowsec gate camp scenario the ship can actually be remotely tanked if needed. It will just need to be able to survive on its own for the short time it takes his friends to kill the target as the remote tank stop is only active while the mod is active. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:14:12 Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:10:37 Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard 1) HIC has cruiser sensor str, which makes it rather slow to target compared to most tacklers.. 2) Blockade runners warp so freaking fast that the odds of getting locked in low sec are slim.. I regularly zip through low sec gatecamps on my alt in a crane. I never even get time to see an attempted lock before I'm in warp A Devoter with 3 sensor boosters (chosen as it can fit sensor boosters and still tank sentries) will take around 1.1-1.3 sec to lock a blockade runner. An agility fitted crane (2x polycarbons + 2 local hull inertia stabs) take 2.8 sec to get into warp. Add lag and it's going to be very close. And in a lowsec gate camp scenario the ship can actually be remotely tanked if needed. It will just need to be able to survive on its own for the short time it takes his friends to kill the target as the remote tank stop is only active while the mod is active. Actually lag is on your side there - you have the 30 second cloak timer to load your screen and choose your action - they need to be standing by ready for anything from 0 to 30 seconds ready to activate the lock. Zarch AlDain
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:14:12 Edited by: Hoshi on 12/11/2007 20:10:37 Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard 1) HIC has cruiser sensor str, which makes it rather slow to target compared to most tacklers.. 2) Blockade runners warp so freaking fast that the odds of getting locked in low sec are slim.. I regularly zip through low sec gatecamps on my alt in a crane. I never even get time to see an attempted lock before I'm in warp A Devoter with 3 sensor boosters (chosen as it can fit sensor boosters and still tank sentries) will take around 1.1-1.3 sec to lock a blockade runner. An agility fitted crane (2x polycarbons + 2 local hull inertia stabs) take 2.8 sec to get into warp. Add lag and it's going to be very close. And in a lowsec gate camp scenario the ship can actually be remotely tanked if needed. It will just need to be able to survive on its own for the short time it takes his friends to kill the target as the remote tank stop is only active while the mod is active. Actually, the ship has only to survive until any other ship can lock and scram and bump the target. That is, 8 seconds or so. Lock, scramble, wait, warp. Of course, against some targets it needs to stay on the field for longer that that. So, it's even worse (better for campers). And if the warp disruption field generator can be activated in low sec it's going to spell doom... I'm really getting afraid of both normal and heavy interdictors, I'm starting to afraid that they are eliminating the roles of other support altogether. I mean, if "any competent FC calls dictors primary" in every situation, it tells me that the ship is overpowered in it's role. "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277
Vitelius Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:47:00 - [15] Indeed, the heavy dictor can be remote repped AND remote sensor boosted for max efficiency. That tackling ability on a T2 cruiser hull is a bad design decision. ---
Femaref Caldari Armageddon Day	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:01:00 - [16] With the mod active, it cant be remote repped. But you are right, the effect of remote sensor boosting is until the mod is activated, so after it, its not needed anymore.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:06:00 - [17] You know what you do if you're in a blockade runner and see a regular, destroyer-based interdictor on the gate? You burn back to the gate and jump out. I don't see how the Heavy Interdictor would be any different.
Jar'cana Brig	Posted - 2007.11.13 00:34:00 - [18] good luck doing POS setup/fueling in low-sec with just a transport ship with an evasion set-up :P Mineral transport will become super-tedious again as well - oh wait, low-sec minerals arn't worth the laser-cycle right now. Keep nerfing the industrialists :(
DeathWalk	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:48:00 - [19] I read somewhere that HIC will stop people from jumping gates as well - is this true? Also, having one tanked hic in your group means a free mid slot for everyone else - no need for extra points, is this what is intended? Lastly, the blockade runners have been seriously screwed here. previously it took 3-4 inty's to lock them down, now one ship will do the job:(
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Yuki Nagato I don't see how the Heavy Interdictor would be any different. HICs have the capability to scramble blockade runners in lowsec. Admittedly, not for very long due to sentry fire, but still does it for long enough.
Ulstan Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:42:00 - [21] This would clearly be a heavy blow to the t2 transport ships. I suggest either making the focused scrambler work only on capitals, or making transport ships immune to that particular module.
Devian 666 Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 03:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard 1) HIC has cruiser sensor str, which makes it rather slow to target compared to most tacklers.. 2) Blockade runners warp so freaking fast that the odds of getting locked in low sec are slim.. I regularly zip through low sec gatecamps on my alt in a crane. I never even get time to see an attempted lock before I'm in warp The above quote is from the only person in this thread who knows how to fit a transport ship properly. Expanded haulers t1 or t2 could be at risk just as they are atm. Quote: "... I doubt they would have the skillpoints and cap fleet to take and make soverignty over a large established alliance like BoB."
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.13 04:32:00 - [23] so now ccp made a ship worth flying, can you please unnerf the interdictors speed? seeing as i can make a broadsword devoter go just as fast? (not using a bubble) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Tarsyris The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 04:51:00 - [24] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just to correct these points. As it stands on Sisi at the moment, the following applies:- * The bubble effect works the same as interdictor bubbles do, only it is attached to the Heavy Interdictor itself. * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. Could this be clarified further? So the bubble is a dictor bubble. The disuptor is an actual disruptor module or is it still the bubble? Do you need to target a ship in order for the focused effect to occur? As a suggestion the sensor strength of the ship could be reduced(increased?) to make it's targeting capabilities even lower. Or the bubble effect could be changed to have a limited scramble strength at least in low sec.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 05:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Yuki Nagato I don't see how the Heavy Interdictor would be any different. HICs have the capability to scramble blockade runners in lowsec. Admittedly, not for very long due to sentry fire, but still does it for long enough. And? See destroyer-class interdictor on gate? Burn back. See heavy dictor on gate? Burn back. See recon with a sensor booster animation on gate? Burn back. If you're smart you wont die. Besides, you're forgetting something: The heavy dictor gets its speed, agility and MWD boost debuffed by quite a bit. A 2.6km/sec blockade runner will easily be able to outrun it if it tries to scramble you.
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.13 06:20:00 - [26] HICs, most overpowered ship to be introduced ever. Scrams everything previously unscramable. Ridiculous tanking abilities (These things can tank full gank Kronos/Mega/Geddy). And yet they get no penalties for using these capabilities whatsoever, oh, soz, they can't be remote repped. Big flipping deal. Stupid ships to implement CCP. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 06:38:00 - [27] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/11/2007 06:38:23 Originally by: Cosmo Raata HICs, most overpowered ship to be introduced ever. Scrams everything previously unscramable. Ridiculous tanking abilities (These things can tank full gank Kronos/Mega/Geddy). And yet they get no penalties for using these capabilities whatsoever, oh, soz, they can't be remote repped. Big flipping deal. Stupid ships to implement CCP. Fairy tales. Go on sisi, check how good they tank gankmega or gankgeddon. They dont (unless they run faction reps or tank specifically for its enemy). Also armor tanking ones can be easily outlasted (injectors do end someday). Only problem is nano-broadsword tbh because it can get decent passive tank (giving it immunity to ocassional hit), can outrun most weapons (missiles/fighters/med drones) and ofc. it can scram from 30k. But thats the issue with all nanoships (hint: fix polycarbons). As for lack of remote rep - it means that ONE of those toys wont hold mothership - unless pilot is badly equipped or lacks any kind of support. One hvy neuter whip on them and you are free to go in no time. Except broadsword (need officer neut minimum vs it).
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.11.13 06:44:00 - [28] So much for CCP to make low sec more attractive... Now even more people will completely avoid it. I don't mind, just it seems that CCP wants some thing (low sec moe attractive) and is doing the complete contrary (making low sec much more dangerous without adding more rewards to it). But then, this isn't new. They want 0.0 more attractive? Sure, let's make logistics there incredibly more difficult, hehe. The changes, well, it is their game and they can change it this way. We all just need to adapt to the changes. But it is beyond me to see any sense in there.
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.11.13 07:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Yuki Nagato If you're smart you wont die. Besides, you're forgetting something: The heavy dictor gets its speed, agility and MWD boost debuffed by quite a bit. A 2.6km/sec blockade runner will easily be able to outrun it if it tries to scramble you. Only when it uses the warp scrambling module in bubble mode - otherwise it's speed and agility are untouched as of now on SiSi. I'm not saying that this is a deadly blow to lowsec or anything - but I'm more concerned with the fact that there are fast (and fast locking) ships with highslot modules which are uncounterable (dictor bubble, HIC jammer/bubbler) that can affect multiple ships at a time. Thus, they are capable of replacing several other support ships (mainly interceptors), giving rise to lopsided fleets with a huge number of battleships, few dictors/hictors and some EWAR. Why bring anything else? "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:34:00 - [30] So, we can now safely rename Trinity to Exodus II (to Empire) ? It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Cailais Amarr W A R	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:46:00 - [31] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Originally by: Draahk Chimera Ok, youre all wrong. Or typed wrong. * bubble effect works only in null-null. It has one (1) point of scram, as opposed to all other bubbles' infinite scram. * focused effect is 1 point of scram and requires lock. Basically a warp scrambler with 1 major difference; it works on motherships. When scripted this way the warp disruption field works in low sec. But to the casual stabbed hauler pilot its just another scram that wont have any affect. Just to correct these points. As it stands on Sisi at the moment, the following applies:- * The bubble effect works the same as interdictor bubbles do, only it is attached to the Heavy Interdictor itself. * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. Blockade runners will be effectively useless if these abilities remain in place - while Id agree not all ships should be able to run ate camps some should: and the blockade runner is a classic example. The disruptor should have a warp jamming strength at the very least. Ive participated in a fair amount of low sec camps and these abilities would be 'wow!' but just too good. Please consider some revisions. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
Rexxar Civire Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:54:00 - [32] Here are the facts on HiDs , ... as they seem to not be fully understood , .. a few people touch on them - 1. The bubble mode ( non scripted ) can only be used in 0.0, it is attached to the ship, and gets a MWD/AB/agility penalty and cannot be remotely assisted while the module is active ( IE useless mode, dictors are better at this ). 2. The bubble is the same as an interdictor bubble as far as unlimited scramble strength and the ability to hold supercapitals. 3. When the focused script is loaded it had an unlimited point high slot warp disruptor, when the module is active with the script loaded the ship incours no penalty - IE it CAN speed tank and it Can be remotely assisted ( repairs etc ). When the module is scripted it can be used in low sec, Pirates rejoice \o/. This is the intended use as i've read from developer resonse. Rex
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:02:00 - [33] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Originally by: Draahk Chimera Ok, youre all wrong. Or typed wrong. * bubble effect works only in null-null. It has one (1) point of scram, as opposed to all other bubbles' infinite scram. * focused effect is 1 point of scram and requires lock. Basically a warp scrambler with 1 major difference; it works on motherships. When scripted this way the warp disruption field works in low sec. But to the casual stabbed hauler pilot its just another scram that wont have any affect. Just to correct these points. As it stands on Sisi at the moment, the following applies:- * The bubble effect works the same as interdictor bubbles do, only it is attached to the Heavy Interdictor itself. * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. Where the advantage to use the transporters with the WCS bonus if u have a weapon with infinite warp scramble??????? THINK BEFORE U MAKE CHANGES..... FAIL AGAIN
Barthezz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:16:00 - [34] A blockade runner getting caught in a low-sec gatecamp is a stupid blockade runner. Cloak + MWD == uncatchable blockade runner. Align, smack mwd, smack cloak the moment mwd drops uncloak + warp. A HIC (or anything for that matter) has to be very fast to catch you. Heck with that tactic I've gotten through 0.0 gatecamps. --- Dont be a victim of what I do to survive!
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Barthezz A blockade runner getting caught in a low-sec gatecamp is a stupid blockade runner. Cloak + MWD == uncatchable blockade runner. Align, smack mwd, smack cloak the moment mwd drops uncloak + warp. A HIC (or anything for that matter) has to be very fast to catch you. Heck with that tactic I've gotten through 0.0 gatecamps. Except some of the BRs can't even properly fit a MWD(see: Crane). ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2007.11.13 10:22:00 - [36] Edited by: Brixer on 13/11/2007 10:22:12 Why don't CCP just use the 'number of points' game all over when it comes to scrambler or 'focused field'/bubble(ie scripted). Blockade runners do get away from gatecamps with regular scrams no matter what, unless there is a dictor there which makes it quite hairy if you don't have MWD. MWD/cloak/run back to gate should even get you out of those situations. Lets give blockade runners +41 points and Moms +35 points (role bonus).. Then give the new dictor 200 points using warp disrupt field, and 40 points focused scram (scripted) Then things should get very close to what it is now except Moms will catchable in lo-sec, unless stabbed to oblivion. 1) Blockade runners can still get away unless there is more then 1 tackler, or the dictor(new type) got another scram or 2 in mid. Nothing new here, except you can't catch it with just regular scrams, which is close to impossible even now. 2) Moms will be catchable in lo-sec unless it stab up with 5 warp core stabs.. And even that would be kinda pointless as you can just put 2 of the new dictors on him. Except the Mom can be scramed by 18 BS with 7.5km scram (inside officer smartbomb field)... hmmm.. That's maybe a bit weak, but if you can field 18 BS you can probably field 2 of those new dictors anyway so... Then you can give Titans like 1000 warp core strength, maybe we'll see them on the field again as you'll need a coordinated attack from 5 of these new dictors to hold it down. Maybe the old dictor probe can get 100 strength or something, so it can stop anything but a Titan.. Also very close to the truth today.. Yeah, I know you can tank it, but it's a bit to easy today.. With the 100 strength of warp disrupt probes you'll need 10 tanked dictors of the old class to hold a Titan down.. All holding 10 dictor bubbles 'alive'. If you want true unlimited (10000) warp disrupt strength you'll have to anchor a damn bubble or something.. We can even get different strength on different bubble size/T2.. More flexibility ftw! Don't make this an on-off game because the mechanics with points are already in place. I think these ideas let us go the middle-way when it come to scrams.. Titan pilots can start using their ships again (still with a lot of risk, but you need some good coordination to pin it down, not one h4xor-tanked destroyer). I don't fly either of the ships mentioned here so I got no bias. It's just a compromiss I think most people could live with..
Jon Hawkes The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.13 11:48:00 - [37] If HICs are indeed intended to hold down Super Capitals, why don't CCP just reduce their scan resolution so it takes them a long time to lock anything smaller than a Battlecruiser? Even a Battleship takes only a couple of seconds to lock a MS or a Titan, and it's not as if they can align and warp out in that time!
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Jon Hawkes If HICs are indeed intended to hold down Super Capitals, why don't CCP just reduce their scan resolution so it takes them a long time to lock anything smaller than a Battlecruiser? Even a Battleship takes only a couple of seconds to lock a MS or a Titan, and it's not as if they can align and warp out in that time! In theory, a cap/supercap could jump out of the system in the blink of an eye, although I'm not sure anyone would be quite that jumpy. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Maliber Art of War	Posted - 2007.11.13 12:53:00 - [39] Im sorry but i have to disagree with the op. I fail to see how his new ability differs from using any normal t1 cruiser, hac or recon with 3 midslots full of warpdisrupters while being remotely sensor boosted/repped. people used to have dedicated tacklers all the time when everyone fitted at least 2 stabs. Now a dedicated shipclass comes out and a recently booosted blockade runner is suddenly useless? I dont think so. This is a dedicated tackling ship that can tackle one ship... Just because ppl are to lazy atm moment to try and catch blockade runners wont make em less lazy in the future.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:51:00 - [40] This changes a few things, not just for blockade runners. Blockade Runners will obviously be affected. Currently, a BR can just warp out of most low-sec gate camps. "Oh, gate camp warp" - with this change, a BR will have to check whether there's a HIC among the ships, and if so, act as if there are quite a lot of inties among them (the MWD/cloak thing). As this is now getting more and more of a requirement for the BR, please consider giving them a pg bonus to actually be able to fit one as a standard fit, without having to fill the lows with fitting mods. Other haulers will be much more risky to use in low-sec. A Mammoth with 2x WCS, 2x istab or 4x WCS can be used as a "poor man's prowler", ditto with the other industrials. They work in low-threat low-sec areas, as the risk of losing them is present, but affordable. When a single hostile ship can hold such a hauler down, this will mean that hauling in low-sec without a scout will be stupid. This means that factories get less minerals (less, not none, obviously), that low-sec will have less goods to offer, etc. Also, any battleship and battlecruiser will be affected. No more moving a battleship or battlecruiser in a "travel fit" without at least a scout, or preferably, a defense fleet. It used to be possible to run most gate camps in a BS/BC with a bunch of WCS in the lows. The ship was useless for combat, but at least it could be moved - it took a serious gate camp to catch them, so the risk was there, but it was low enough to accept it. With these changes, HIC+2xBS will be able to block any gate for anything bigger than a cruiser. This makes the logistics of having big ships around very difficult, especially for smaller corps with few members. These corps will have to reconsider having their battleships in low-sec due to the easiness with which three ships can now block them from moving. Solo mission running in "hot" areas will also be very dangerous even if you are careful. Right now, if you see flagged people or known pirates in your area, you use WCS to jump to the mission target system and refit there. It's not completely secure, but it's something you can do to lessen the risk. With this change, a single HIC will make it impossible to run. You will have to fit an MWD on your mission ship and hope the others don't get a web on you so you can burn back to the gate, which means your mission isn't done. All this means that the risk of low-sec, already high compared to high-sec (obviously), will increase tremendously. Most ships but a select few small and fast-aligning ships will be very risky to move through low-sec, as a single ship class present in a gate camp will mean they are almost certainly dead. And this while the rewards of low-sec are ... ridiculous. Running missions in low-sec gives only a small increase over the same missions in high-sec. Mining in low-sec is completely unprofitable already. Ratting in low-sec... yeah, right. This change will make low-sec less attractive. And that is because the HIC does not have a counter. Please, make this module counterable in low-sec.
Andreya Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:18:00 - [41] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/11/2007 06:38:23 Originally by: Cosmo Raata HICs, most overpowered ship to be introduced ever. Scrams everything previously unscramable. Ridiculous tanking abilities (These things can tank full gank Kronos/Mega/Geddy). And yet they get no penalties for using these capabilities whatsoever, oh, soz, they can't be remote repped. Big flipping deal. Stupid ships to implement CCP. Fairy tales. Go on sisi, check how good they tank gankmega or gankgeddon. They dont (unless they run faction reps or tank specifically for its enemy). Also armor tanking ones can be easily outlasted (injectors do end someday). Only problem is nano-broadsword tbh because it can get decent passive tank (giving it immunity to ocassional hit), can outrun most weapons (missiles/fighters/med drones) and ofc. it can scram from 30k. But thats the issue with all nanoships (hint: fix polycarbons). As for lack of remote rep - it means that ONE of those toys wont hold mothership - unless pilot is badly equipped or lacks any kind of support. One hvy neuter whip on them and you are free to go in no time. Except broadsword (need officer neut minimum vs it). like i said, in response to the first post and second quoted... unnerf our everyday destroyer dictors whom the majority of eve is fine with, and remove polycarbs... i can fly dictors, heavy dictors, and i use polycarbs in EVERY one of my ships... remove polys altogether, give everyone a better chance against dictors and all other nanoships, and yes i will still be happy, with HICs, i can and will fly a broadsword, and even i agree, scrambling blockade runners each and every time is pretty silly (overpowered) and yes, we have enough rapiers in corp that not a single ship will ever get away. and dictors? i still have not read a response as to why the devs have nerf'd them. making them exTREMEly unattractive ships to fly (also being my current favorite) when all they would have to do is deal with the polycarbs, and give the Eris a little love... once again, to sum it up, dont nerf dictors to make your HICS all uber, to hell with HICs _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:32:00 - [42] I don't see how it affects too much the blockade runners. Saying that a HIC with '3 sensor boosters' will have some chance to lock the blockade runner and saying it will always happen is nonsense. 3 sensor boosters is an extreme setup. It's like saying that an inty with a sensor booster and 2 warp scramblers will catch the blockade runner. Who fits this? Before, you saw a lachesis and runned back to the gate, now it is another ship and it is not better at the game, what does it change? A lachesis has 7 med slots and can fit 3 boosters and 4 disruptors, but are there many people to do this? Was it a so big threat that blockade runners pilots were all saying it was unfair? I do not see this ship as a so big threat... The big issue is more with all the other ships that can't be as fast, travel setups for lowsec will just suck. Before, they were 99% sure, if it drops to 90%, less people will travel via lowsec. For 0.0, it doen't change much compared to actual interdictors unless it comes to supercapital tanking, it requires less skills to block a supercapital when the bubble survives the smartbombs. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:44:00 - [43] This does sound like the final nail in the lowsec coffin. If there exists an uncounterable way to scramble people at gates, the risk vs reward just got utterly stupid (risk=insane, reward=meh). Lowsec is already pretty empty, since the risk/reward is already poor. Effectively, this kills solo hauling in lowsec, and even more it kills missioning in lowsec. The only counter left on a mission (combat) ship would be mwd, but due to the deadspace stupidity you can't use mwd on mission ships. Good luck getting back to the gate in one piece with AB... As for non-combat missions, well... good luck trying to fit an MWD on that indy. Missioning in lowsec is already risky, and doesn't pay much better than the risk-free high sec next door. This doesn't sound good, honestly. I'm not wild about going back to highsec, but... As a only-slightly-related note: t2 transport ships could use a bit of a buff. The blockade runners should be able to easily fit MWD, and the transports should just plain be improved -- at the moment the tanking bonus is effectively useless, and the ships aren't much better than their t1 counterparts while being much, much slower. Meh. Blockade runners are better (i.e. worth their price), but as noted should be able to fit MWD without gymnastics.
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:37:00 - [44] Ok some points. I'm quite sure that I read in a dev posting that when they fit the focusing script it also negates the negative effects of the module such as speed and remote repping. That's post I'm refering to. So the heavy interdictor will be remote repable. So a carrier could keep it perfectly alive in such as these situations. Would a carrier want to be there for such reasons? Not sure considering that whole nerf. another topic entirely As for blockade runners. They are currently using transport ships. This means industrial lvl 5. Which means they aren't far at all from freighter 4. Infact I'm EXACTLY in that boat. I haven't spent the 135mil to get the advanced starship command skill book nor freighter. It will basically take me 2 weeks to train to use the tech 2 freighter. Plus another 4-5 days to train warp drive operation to lvl 5 so I can get jump drive operation. This is pretty easy and short training for t2 freighter. The biggest problem obviously is the multibillions that it will cost for one of these t2 freighters... however it's extremly obvious how you can pretty much super efficiently change up job of risking your transport ship and transporting small amounts of fuel into 1 trip a month using a jump freighter. You basically move to the closest hi sec system using the freighter. You pop a cyno at your pos and you jump from hi sec into low sec right on top of your pos. Complete bypass of any blockade.
Ulstan Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:58:00 - [45] Excellent post by Arcady. As I've said, I agree that MoM's need a counter in low sec, but the HIC scrambler also needs a counter. Quote: Im sorry but i have to disagree with the op. I fail to see how his new ability differs from using any normal t1 cruiser, hac or recon with 3 midslots full of warpdisrupters How can you not see the difference? If I somehow have 3 points of stabilizers I escape in the first case, but die horribly in the second case: and isn't the enemy using fewer slots in the second case? This new ability should not be able to completely bypasss warp core stabilizers.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:37:00 - [46] HICs will have almost no effect on blockade runners. As it is, all you need to stop them is 3 sensor boosted bc with a scram on. The built in warp core stab points have worked for my blockade runner like once. The rest of the time either I warp faster than they can lock because they didn't sensor boost, or they get more than 2 points of scram on me.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:43:00 - [47] I think it is very entertaining that they fix lowsec motherships by breaking lowsec entirely. They simply can't get something fixed by breaking at least 2 more things. It's a shame.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:50:00 - [48] Oh, and a HIC can NOT tank a maurauder. With a double injector, double repper tank, my Phobos was just barely able to tank a Deimos until cap booster charges ran out. A marauder would eat the Phobos for lunch, between the 99% web and the 700 dps damage output, and the nos/neuts.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Gaogan The rest of the time either I warp faster than they can lock because they didn't sensor boost, or they get more than 2 points of scram on me. I recommend utilizing your low slots for further WCS. A Prorator can get up to 6 points that way. Still, it's possible to catch such ships, but it is difficult. A HIC is a one ship solution to this problem, regardless what you do. Originally by: Jason Edwards As for blockade runners. They are currently using transport ships. [...] Yes, for fueling POSes in low-sec, using jump freighters will be quite a useful thing. Especially as you can cyno back right on top of the gate and jump to high-sec. The problem is that low-sec POSes are not the only reason people are in low-sec. My corp for example produces in low-sec. A great deal of our daily work is to haul minerals we buy in low-sec to a factory station in low-sec. Using jump freighters for this is ... difficult at best. The other problems mentioned in my post above are unaffected by this, too. Something so far unmentioned is also the problem of high-sec warfare. There, the HICs don't even have to worry about sentries anymore. Sensor boost, maybe remote sensor boost, and a gate is effectively closed for anything but an interceptor or a cloaker.
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:10:00 - [50] You people are overreacting. I've flown blockade runners for over a year. The Hactor is nothing more than an interdictor that can enter lowsec and scram you. So you'll have to be careful when traveling in lowsec. Big deal. If you don't speed tank and fit a MWD on your blockade runner you're an idiot and you should be more worried about regular interdictors than you should about Hactors.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:42:00 - [51] Originally by: Yuki Nagato The Hactor is nothing more than an interdictor that can enter lowsec Indeed. Which makes low-sec much riskier than it is now. And low-sec becoming riskier has been the main criticism above. Good that we agree on that. Quote: If you don't speed tank and fit a MWD on your blockade runner Hactors go faster than a blockade runner with MWD, as the drawbacks of the dictor module are cancelled out by the script that makes it a directed effect. Hence you can't run from their infinite point effect as you currently can from bubbles in 0.0. Once it has you scrammed, you are scrammed. And highly likely dead shortly thereafter. But yes, you can still use the mwd/cloak/align/decloak/warp trick. Which still means low-sec has become much riskier than it is now, with no gains in rewards. Which is what has been criticized above.
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:05:00 - [52] Originally by: Yuki Nagato And? And, it's a "Blockade Runner", not an "OMG A BLOCKADE, TURN THE **** AROUND!!-er"
Yuki Nagato GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Originally by: Yuki Nagato The Hactor is nothing more than an interdictor that can enter lowsec Indeed. Which makes low-sec much riskier than it is now. And low-sec becoming riskier has been the main criticism above. Good that we agree on that. If they wont allowed anchor-able bubbles or interdictor bubbles then the Hactor won't be any different. Okay, so the "focused" script screw over your 4x WCS battleship: a gatecamp with a couple of recons or a small group of inties could do the same thing. Quote: Quote: If you don't speed tank and fit a MWD on your blockade runner Hactors go faster than a blockade runner with MWD, as the drawbacks of the dictor module are cancelled out by the script that makes it a directed effect. Hence you can't run from their infinite point effect as you currently can from bubbles in 0.0. Once it has you scrammed, you are scrammed. And highly likely dead shortly thereafter. But yes, you can still use the mwd/cloak/align/decloak/warp trick. Which still means low-sec has become much riskier than it is now, with no gains in rewards. Which is what has been criticized above. I'm almost certain this isn't the desired effect. Blockade runners shouldn't be invincible, and I say that as someone who has specced his industrial alt to that effect (good skills, 'rogue' implants, rigged blockade runner). Multiple Rapiers will kill you. Interdictors will stop you from progressing along your route. The entire point of blockade runners is that you're supposed to be able to survive random passers-by or survive a bubblecamp, which you CAN if you know what you're doing. I honestly don't see Hactors as much of a problem. I always check the shiptype of a neutral if I'm going into lowsec: I just burn back if it's something like an instalocking Lachesis. I'd do the same for a Hactor.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:37:00 - [54] \o/ on noes \o/ you can catch ANY ship at a low sec gate today...remote sensor boosted scorp with 8x t2 disruptors and an armor tank comes to mind....And thats just doing it few 3-4 people...you can also do it with remote repped assault frigs, etc. Just cause people are lazy doesnt mean this is not possible today. You have never been truely safe, you have just thought you were safe. This change does make this easier tho....and lowsec will prolly suffer for it. The end of the game it is not. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.13 21:59:00 - [55] Just make the focused mode reduce the targetign speed by 80%. Will be still plenety to target capitals hisps very fast but wil beusellles against smaller ships. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:13:00 - [56] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn \o/ on noes \o/ you can catch ANY ship at a low sec gate today...remote sensor boosted scorp with 8x t2 disruptors and an armor tank comes to mind....And thats just doing it few 3-4 people...you can also do it with remote repped assault frigs, etc. Just cause people are lazy doesnt mean this is not possible today. You have never been truely safe, you have just thought you were safe. This change does make this easier tho....and lowsec will prolly suffer for it. The end of the game it is not. Due to the low start scan res and stacking penalty the highest scan res you can get on a remote sensor boosted scorp is around 380. That will give a 3.1-3.6 lock time on a blockade runner, a ship that takes less than 3 sec to go to warp. So a scorp is not a threat. You will need a scan res of around 650-700 which means at least 160 scan res before boosting. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:37:00 - [57] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn You have never been truely safe, you have just thought you were safe. No one said "we were totally safe in low-sec, now we're not, whine whine" - the problem is, as you correctly state: Quote: This change does make this easier tho....and lowsec will prolly suffer for it. This. And exactly this. As said above, low-sec has few reasons enough to be there as it is. Risk vs. reward is low. Risk goes up, reward stays the same. So why go there? Just played around a bit with numbers. Broadsword has 6 mid slots. Dedicating three of them for sensor boosters means it locks faster than an unboosted Rifter. So it can fit an MWD, a two-slot shield tank (2xLSE II gives 6,832 shield hp, resists 80/68/52/68, can tank two sentries alone for close to one minute, with no rigs and no remote shield transfer), three sensor boosters, and in the four lows either full speed or 2x ODI II and 2x SPR II to improve the shield tank. It locks faster than a Rifter, and slightly slower than an unboosted Stiletto (scan resolution 1000.8 mm, Rifter has 825 mm, Stiletto 1156.3 mm). The high-slot disruption field/beam has a range of 28.8km (with heavy interdictors 4) and unlimited scramble strength, while the ship can go 3.5km/s (only 2.8km/s with 2x SPR II). Well, good luck.
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Gaogan Oh, and a HIC can NOT tank a maurauder. With a double injector, double repper tank, my Phobos was just barely able to tank a Deimos until cap booster charges ran out. A marauder would eat the Phobos for lunch, between the 99% web and the 700 dps damage output, and the nos/neuts. A phobos can't tank a maurader, but the broadsword & the caldari one CAN!!! Yes, i've tested this on Sisi people. I used a kronos & a paladin at level 4 and max skills in ever other sense. These things can tank too well. T'Amber was the Nyx pilot scrammed by a broadsword that he couldn't kill. These ships are overpowered, period. I dont care if you dont listen to what I have to say about them, as you'll regret it later and be complaining to CCP how overpowered they are later. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/11/2007 06:38:23 Originally by: Cosmo Raata HICs, most overpowered ship to be introduced ever. Scrams everything previously unscramable. Ridiculous tanking abilities (These things can tank full gank Kronos/Mega/Geddy). And yet they get no penalties for using these capabilities whatsoever, oh, soz, they can't be remote repped. Big flipping deal. Stupid ships to implement CCP. Fairy tales. Go on sisi, check how good they tank gankmega or gankgeddon. They dont (unless they run faction reps or tank specifically for its enemy). Also armor tanking ones can be easily outlasted (injectors do end someday). Only problem is nano-broadsword tbh because it can get decent passive tank (giving it immunity to ocassional hit), can outrun most weapons (missiles/fighters/med drones) and ofc. it can scram from 30k. But thats the issue with all nanoships (hint: fix polycarbons). As for lack of remote rep - it means that ONE of those toys wont hold mothership - unless pilot is badly equipped or lacks any kind of support. One hvy neuter whip on them and you are free to go in no time. Except broadsword (need officer neut minimum vs it). You are clueless. I've been on sisi testing these since day 1. The shield tanking versions of these have tanks that just plain cannot be broken with any type of ship. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.14 01:57:00 - [60] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Yes, for fueling POSes in low-sec, using jump freighters will be quite a useful thing. Especially as you can cyno back right on top of the gate and jump to high-sec. This is a bit off-topic, but after putting some thought in to that, that won't work. Due to the 5km landing zone you're going to almost always land outside of the jump range of a gate, and the jump freighter is awfully slow to slowboat in to range. It seems like they'd need to cyno in to a system at a safe point (i.e. a Deathstar) and then warp to the gate. Of course that'll still bring in a lot of risk in jumping the thing in to low-sec. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Rogerano Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.11.14 02:05:00 - [61] Edited by: Rogerano on 14/11/2007 02:07:56 This seems like an exaggeration. No ship is unkillable, which is what your sensationalist viewpoint appears to be. The following broadsword setups (fresh off the EFT press) may or may not be ****e. I don't care. But they do have good tanks for a cruiser. No unkillable tanks though. 2x Gyrostabilizer II, Co-Processor II, Internal Force Field Array I 10MN MWD II, Invul II, 'Copasetic' boost amp, boost amp II, large booster II, electrochem cap boost 5x 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Warp Disruption Field Generator I (Focused) 2x Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Resists are all 80%+ Tanks about 650 DPS with all skills to lvl V. It'll do that for as long as there is capacitor because it's an active tank. The cargo is only 450m3. It's sig radius is 142m2. 3x Shield Power Relay II, Internal Force Field Array I 10MN MWD II, 4x Large Shield Extender II, kin deflection amp (passive kin) 5x Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Warp Disruption Field Generator I (Focused) 2x Core Defence Field Purger I Resists are all 72%+ Totally passive tank (550-600 DPS depending on damage type). Impressive but not unkillable. Sig radius is much larger; 252m2. Can you show us these unkillable tanks? --- Not happy with something in EVE? An emo whine will doubtless help your cause.
sai'l et SWING KINGS	Posted - 2007.11.14 06:35:00 - [62] ok, these ships should not be able to speed tank or even move when using the damn script. thats stupid. i cant believe these ships would be able to speed tank vs a carrier. 1.2 bill ship (or something like that) vs a ship that costs what??? 100mill ... maybe 200mill when they first come out. and fighters cant catch up to it. drones u say???? oh yeah, these HIC's have pretty damn good tanks. so they can probably tank a carrier until backup arrives and there u go.. What about moms??? will they be able to scram a MOM?? 25bill ship + super expensive fit.. lets say...40 bill. ok. and it can be scram by a 100mill ship. maybe 200mill ship in lowsec. what about all the time spent learning carrier/mom skills???? 1 1/2 yr training minimum. and these HIC's take what...4 months, 6maybe to train. lets just recycle all our sht and be done with it. CCP what are u doing??? the minnie HIC can speed tank pretty good when using those ******* script things.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.11.14 08:27:00 - [63] Edited by: Bentula on 14/11/2007 08:32:31 And again people cant look further than 5 feet. So HICs cant lock fast enough and cant tank a marauder? These are not solo ships guys, so please stop it with your 1vs1 theories it makes me sick. These ships are way faster in lowsec than anything that can take them down, even if your 5km away from him after jumpin you still wont get to lock them before they burned out of webrange in your marauder. In any halfdecent pirategang that is camping a gate these things will be remote sensorboosted and remote repaired. I dont care how many n00bs you can kill that didnt even spent 5 mins thinking about how to use this ship in a gang, but the combination of lots of tanking slots, hac resists and extra resistance bonus will mean these ships get a tank that screams remoterep to me. And with how the module currently works they are always remote repable if in lowsec. Not saying these ships are OP, tackling alone doesnt win you fights, just pointing out how arguments are flawed. Its like pointing at a logistics ship and going "lol he cant even rep himself with all those large reps/boosters in his highslots, what a useless ship". Originally by: sai'l et ok, these ships should not be able to speed tank or even move when using the damn script. thats stupid. i cant believe these ships would be able to speed tank vs a carrier. 1.2 bill ship (or something like that) vs a ship that costs what??? 100mill ... maybe 200mill when they first come out. and fighters cant catch up to it. drones u say???? oh yeah, these HIC's have pretty damn good tanks. so they can probably tank a carrier until backup arrives and there u go.. What about moms??? will they be able to scram a MOM?? 25bill ship + super expensive fit.. lets say...40 bill. ok. and it can be scram by a 100mill ship. maybe 200mill ship in lowsec. what about all the time spent learning carrier/mom skills???? 1 1/2 yr training minimum. and these HIC's take what...4 months, 6maybe to train. lets just recycle all our sht and be done with it. CCP what are u doing??? the minnie HIC can speed tank pretty good when using those ******* script things. Have you lived under a rock the last year? Any speedtanked ship can scram a carrier, dont need a HIC for that, and i give you a hint, there are ships costing far less than 100mil, that are far faster, and they can keep moms down even better. Cause if you go bubblemode you cant speedtank anymore, if you use script you get vulnurable to EW. Dictors however can even die, aslong as they managed to drop the bubble outside smarty range the mom isnt going anywhere.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.17 10:27:00 - [64] Originally by: Cosmo Raata You are clueless. I've been on sisi testing these since day 1. The shield tanking versions of these have tanks that just plain cannot be broken with any type of ship. Post above you were showing how kronos and paladin (skill lvl4) cant break dictor. Next time use ship which deals more damage: geddon. Anyways if they passive tank and "cant" be broken - just mwd/slowboat away. Damage is pretty bad anyways and they can keep "cant kill it mode" only in full passive (bye bye MWD/web).
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.17 11:37:00 - [65] If CCP are going to allow these things to Interdict in low-sec,and able to scram anything,then maybe they need to release those Covops blockade runners.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.11.17 11:38:00 - [66] Blockade runners should be able to use blackops jump bridges. But really? Your defense has _always_ been MWDIng away quick, and getting out of range, then warping. (or back to the gate, and jumping). 2 points really isn't anything to write home about - any 'real' gatecamp does more than that, simply because of stabbed haulers. But the Crane still needs more powergrid. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.11.17 11:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Gaogan Oh, and a HIC can NOT tank a maurauder. With a double injector, double repper tank, my Phobos was just barely able to tank a Deimos until cap booster charges ran out. A marauder would eat the Phobos for lunch, between the 99% web and the 700 dps damage output, and the nos/neuts. A phobos can't tank a maurader, but the broadsword & the caldari one CAN!!! Yes, i've tested this on Sisi people. I used a kronos & a paladin at level 4 and max skills in ever other sense. These things can tank too well. T'Amber was the Nyx pilot scrammed by a broadsword that he couldn't kill. These ships are overpowered, period. I dont care if you dont listen to what I have to say about them, as you'll regret it later and be complaining to CCP how overpowered they are later. To be fair, that's pretty much what these ships were intended to do - make it WAY more hazardous to gatecamp in motherships, without an escort. But seeing a 5km/sec broadsword, orbiting at 26km with that point running, does make me ... concerned. Onyx tanks good, but is just plain slow. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.17 12:20:00 - [68] Originally by: James Lyrus Blockade runners should be able to use blackops jump bridges. But really? Your defense has _always_ been MWDIng away quick, and getting out of range, then warping. (or back to the gate, and jumping). 2 points really isn't anything to write home about - any 'real' gatecamp does more than that, simply because of stabbed haulers. But the Crane still needs more powergrid. Not disputing the cranes powergrid needs or the warp core strength. From what I see its the small/smaller corps who try and populate low sec,with the HIC abilites in low-sec it would make sense to add a covops class,and allow them to decloak-warp-cloak around heavy gate camps,whilst their cargo hold could be sufficiently adjusted to carry your most precious cargo.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.17 14:38:00 - [69] Originally by: James Lyrus But really? Your defense has _always_ been MWDIng away quick, and getting out of range, then warping. (or back to the gate, and jumping). In 0.0, yes. No one is saying HICs will make 0.0 more dangerous for blockade runners. (One could, though - right now, you can MWD out of a dictor bubble, and then warp off, because the dictor can only get one pt on you. The Broadsword is faster than you and and keep an infinite-strength scram on your ship, so no running anymore except for back to the gate.) In low-sec, gate camps have a two-fold problem: First, no bubbles with infinite strength, so WCS work nicely. Second, to get a blockade runner or other small ship, you need a fast locker, which means you need a cruiser or frig-sized ship for that - both being quite in peril due to the sentries. Which right now results in gate camps consisting mostly of either BS/CS with sensor boosters, or including some tech 2 cruisers (lach, HACs) for fast tackling. Even big gate camps usually do not have many fast tacklers. In low-sec, you can usually just warp out with a ship that aligns suitably fast and has 2-4 points like the typical blockade runner. No one is saying you were totally safe in low-sec so far. You were not. Good gate camps could get you. If you jump into a huge gate camp, the mwd/cloak/align/uncloak/warp trick is useful (and yes, more pg for the crane if it can't do that). But in general, for the typical low-sec gate camp, blockade runners were ok. You pay for using the blockade runner by having a small cargo hold compared to the industrials. More safety, less profit. With the HIC, it's possible for every other common 2-3 ship gate camp to get a blockade runner without too much trouble. So the blockade runners will have to utilize the cloak-trick much more often, or mwd back to the gate. Low-sec becomes much riskier for the blockade runner. And that's the main problem: Low-sec (LOW SEC, not zero) becoming riskier, thus making the little rewards you can get there even less interesting. As a solution for this, multiple things have been proposed. The easiest is to just make the HIC scram be 1pt like others, too. If their bubble would be 1pt, too, then interdictors would have one advantage over HICs (compared to many disadvantages). I'm not sure why this doesn't happen. The stats originally included the note that the disruption field has a warp scramble strength of 1. I do think the infinite strength is actually not a game design decision, but a technological decision based on how supercaps work. I would prefer a different solution :-)
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:13:00 - [70] I has you bubbled, wait I can't moves! It's called LOWSEC not HIGHSEC. Get some friends or join a corp. This thread is made of fail.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:43:00 - [71] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Originally by: Gaogan Oh, and a HIC can NOT tank a maurauder. With a double injector, double repper tank, my Phobos was just barely able to tank a Deimos until cap booster charges ran out. A marauder would eat the Phobos for lunch, between the 99% web and the 700 dps damage output, and the nos/neuts. A phobos can't tank a maurader, but the broadsword & the caldari one CAN!!! Yes, i've tested this on Sisi people. I used a kronos & a paladin at level 4 and max skills in ever other sense. These things can tank too well. T'Amber was the Nyx pilot scrammed by a broadsword that he couldn't kill. These ships are overpowered, period. I dont care if you dont listen to what I have to say about them, as you'll regret it later and be complaining to CCP how overpowered they are later. As much as I hate to admit it, the solution to this will be stack nerfing shield recharge. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:54:00 - [72] Hics are made of fail, not the thread. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Traddox	Posted - 2007.11.18 02:28:00 - [73] If you think this is a nerf to Transport ships you are an idiot, nuff said. A transport ship can warp faster than a cruiser classed ship with sensor boosters in the mids can target.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.18 04:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Traddox If you think this is a nerf to Transport ships you are an idiot, nuff said. A transport ship can warp faster than a cruiser classed ship with sensor boosters in the mids can target. are you sure? taking into account the so-far published info on Hactors? taking into account remote sensor boosting?
Thomina Yorke GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 05:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Tek'a Rain Originally by: Traddox If you think this is a nerf to Transport ships you are an idiot, nuff said. A transport ship can warp faster than a cruiser classed ship with sensor boosters in the mids can target. are you sure? taking into account the so-far published info on Hactors? taking into account remote sensor boosting? Taking into account that you can BURN BACK TO THE GATE IF YOU DON'T TRUST THE SITUATION AFTER YOU LOAD GRID? You might not "run" the blockade, but you won't die if you're not an idiot. Just burn back to the damn gate if you see a Hactor. How hard is this to understand?
Jar'cana Brig	Posted - 2007.11.18 06:51:00 - [76] how 'bout we just make titans and motherships 0.0 only? Solves the low-sec issue. Story-wise, I have a hard time believing a huge empire would allow a supercap in it's space anyway. A blockade runner is a 20mil ship with t2 defenses that may as well be paper against a gatecamp. The only way it (or any other cargoship) can beat a gatecamp is with a cloak, a rack full of WCS, and speed. And because of it's small cargospace, it'll have to beat that gatecamp 3,4,5 or more times. I can do it, but every once in awhile I screw up or they get lucky. Oh well - I congratulate the pirates, not whine at them. But in the "big picture" I'm not sure CCP really knows what low-sec is for. Is it a transition/training area to get players into 0.0? Is it just that alley you walk past on the way to the bar? Low-sec ores are crap, trade-runs arn't worth the risk, and the rats aint that great. For 0.0, a titan/MS scrambler is great! For low-sec an infinite scram is overpowered.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.18 11:18:00 - [77] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 18/11/2007 11:21:28 Originally by: Thomina Yorke Originally by: Tek'a Rain Originally by: Traddox If you think this is a nerf to Transport ships you are an idiot, nuff said. A transport ship can warp faster than a cruiser classed ship with sensor boosters in the mids can target. are you sure? taking into account the so-far published info on Hactors? taking into account remote sensor boosting? Taking into account that you can BURN BACK TO THE GATE IF YOU DON'T TRUST THE SITUATION AFTER YOU LOAD GRID? You might not "run" the blockade, but you won't die if you're not an idiot. Just burn back to the damn gate if you see a Hactor. How hard is this to understand? Clearly you've never flown a Crane. Originally by: Jar'cana Brig how 'bout we just make titans and motherships 0.0 only? Solves the low-sec issue. Story-wise, I have a hard time believing a huge empire would allow a supercap in it's space anyway. Unfortunately, they need low-sec access for mobility. Prior to Dreads being able to enter .4 space, you couldn't move a Dread between the North and the South, and 0.0 would be even worse. Most 0.0 regions are separated by a large expanse, while titans realistically aren't able to go farther than 7ly (technically they could do 7.875ly on JC V, but that's a ton of training time for an extra .875ly). ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.18 11:27:00 - [78] Originally by: Verite Rendition Clearly you've never flown a Crane. Implant slot6, PG2/4/8 adds 1/3/5% powergrid to ship.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:34:00 - [79] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Verite Rendition Clearly you've never flown a Crane. Implant slot6, PG2/4/8 adds 1/3/5% powergrid to ship. PDS IIs, RCUs and ancillary current routers also increase powergrid. Or you could fit a 100mn Digital booster rockets to it. But the point remains, that the Crane is the only blockade runner that has to do so, despite being already the slowest, heaviest, and with the fewest midslots. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Thomina Yorke GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:47:00 - [80] Then the Crane needs a buff. But as far as the Prorator/Viator/Prowler go, the Hactor won't be any more dangerous than instalocking an Lachesis, which can be avoided.
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.11.19 00:00:00 - [81] not like we werent using 6point 2200 scan lachs before hand Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Exlegion Caldari New Light Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.19 00:35:00 - [82] This is a nerf to low-sec piracy. Some just haven't realized it yet. But soon enough you will. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.19 01:06:00 - [83] Originally by: Liang Nuren As much as I hate to admit it, the solution to this will be stack nerfing shield recharge. Liang If there is a problem with the passive tanks of the hics it can be solved by increasing their recharge times. A stacking nerf on sprs would be overkill.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.19 02:07:00 - [84] Originally by: Incantare Originally by: Liang Nuren As much as I hate to admit it, the solution to this will be stack nerfing shield recharge. Liang If there is a problem with the passive tanks of the hics it can be solved by increasing their recharge times. A stacking nerf on sprs would be overkill. No, extender tanks could still survive. Most (reasonable) completely passive ships only have 5 or 6 modules devoted to shield reharge (3 CDFP I, 2-3 SPR II). 2-3 SPR II + 0-1 CDFP + 0-3 CDFE would work somewhere between half and three quarters as effective for most ships. The only truly hurt ships would be those that are both completely filling all their lows with SPR II's and have lots of lows (Eos and Myrmidon come to mind). Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.19 03:02:00 - [85] Originally by: Liang Nuren No, extender tanks could still survive. Most (reasonable) completely passive ships only have 5 or 6 modules devoted to shield reharge (3 CDFP I, 2-3 SPR II). 2-3 SPR II + 0-1 CDFP + 0-3 CDFE would work somewhere between half and three quarters as effective for most ships. The only truly hurt ships would be those that are both completely filling all their lows with SPR II's and have lots of lows (Eos and Myrmidon come to mind). Liang Obviously hp based passive tanks wouldn't be affected. For such a nerf to be justified requires that they cause an imbalanced situation, not just on the HICs as that can be solved with by increasing their recharge time, but for all ship classes for which they are viable. I'm unconvinced. Full blown passive tanks give up mobility, pvp utility, damage, the prolonged use of any cap intensive module and the ability to warp multiple times in rapid succession. For all those sacrifices they gain one thing: superior tanking ability. I consider that a fair tradeoff. I can understand wanting to encourage balanced builds but your suggestion would effectively make them worse when they are in no case in need of a nerf. A better way to achieve that would be to buff sprs while adding a stacking nerf so their strength with two or three fitted is either unchanged or better and anything beyond would be worse off.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.19 05:09:00 - [86] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Verite Rendition Clearly you've never flown a Crane. Implant slot6, PG2/4/8 adds 1/3/5% powergrid to ship. PDS IIs, RCUs and ancillary current routers also increase powergrid. Or you could fit a 100mn Digital booster rockets to it. But the point remains, that the Crane is the only blockade runner that has to do so, despite being already the slowest, heaviest, and with the fewest midslots. It's the fewest low-slots (not mid-slots) but the point still stands. The Crane needs a serious buff, both to fit MWDs and to balance out the lack of low-slots with the high mass. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.19 06:30:00 - [87] Originally by: Incantare Obviously hp based passive tanks wouldn't be affected. For such a nerf to be justified requires that they cause an imbalanced situation, not just on the HICs as that can be solved with by increasing their recharge time, but for all ship classes for which they are viable. I'm unconvinced. Full blown passive tanks give up mobility, pvp utility, damage, the prolonged use of any cap intensive module and the ability to warp multiple times in rapid succession. For all those sacrifices they gain one thing: superior tanking ability. I consider that a fair tradeoff. I can understand wanting to encourage balanced builds but your suggestion would effectively make them worse when they are in no case in need of a nerf. A better way to achieve that would be to buff sprs while adding a stacking nerf so their strength with two or three fitted is either unchanged or better and anything beyond would be worse off. I would have no problem with increasing the viability of both the CDFP and the SPR if they implemented a stacking nerf. The real issue comes from being able to fit 7+ modules to shield recharge. Full passive Myrmidon uses [PDU/SPR II] + 5x SPR II + 3x CDFP I = 9 Full passive Drake uses 4x SPRII + 3x CDFP I + Shield Recharger I = 8 Sure, they gain superior tanking - but at what cost? They're slightly mobile bricks with tanks better than most battleships. Active tanking (even if you devoted the same slottage to it) simply can't keep up - and has additional vulnerabilities to nos/neut. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Ricco Lonestar Minmatar xtort Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.19 09:08:00 - [88] Will we have more use of the ingame voice? Maybe instead of the usual is it safe.(highsec>lowsec). Personally I would not ask the neutral looking guy on the empire gate. you never know maybe he will even make baby Jezus cry.
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.19 12:39:00 - [89] well combine that ship with huggin and ceptor means insta death for transport ships, scramed and webbed to hell, even mwd dont work then. means that was it with blocade running. MfG ottman
Ricco Lonestar Minmatar xtort Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:51:00 - [90] Originally by: Ottman well combine that ship with huggin and ceptor means insta death for transport ships, scramed and webbed to hell, even mwd dont work then. means that was it with blocade running. MfG ottman In 0,0 yes , but a large bubble + above mentioned ships did already.
CoRrUpTiGe	Posted - 2007.11.19 19:41:00 - [91] Originally by: MOS DEF I think it is very entertaining that they fix lowsec motherships by breaking lowsec entirely. They simply can't get something fixed by breaking at least 2 more things. It's a shame. The players have the tools to do everything they need to do in low sec. But with out of game whines and nerfage, its *easier* to just put scripted hics in Eve. Nevermind that, as you mentioned, it breaks low sec completely by introducing a supercap tackler without a counter. If you actually MUST have hics in low sec as supercap tacklers, why not just apply the rule for "immobilization and nonassistance" to them there as well. No ONE in the CCP dev staff wants or even cares to look and the continued overpowered nature of speed tanks in Eve. Not to mention the sacred cow that nanotactics seem to still be. But it's okay lobotomize caps and especially supercaps without a single isk of compensation for those who stand to lose tens of billions of isk in net worth to those changes.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.19 19:59:00 - [92] Personally I don't think this will be such a big deal for low-sec Blockade runners. WCSs will be dead of course. But the danger from Interdictors is that they can jam you without having to lock you, it's a big fat passive anti-warping field. That's a threat for any ship in the game. Against a HIC in it's still just a matter of doing the "warp, cloak, laugh" routine and 2.8 seconds later you're off. Still no different from the way it was. It will take a freaking miracle for them to actually be able to (in 2.8 seconds, or a bit more if you're not Istabbing/nanoing): 1. Decloak you (at LEAST 2 seconds unless they're lucky). 2. Lock you after you've been decloaked (which means reaction time+locking speed). What this DOES nerf is the ability to move Battlecruisers and Battleships in low-sec (or in high-sec when you're at war? Can you use that disruptor in high-sec?). Previously it has always been fairly easy to put 6-8 stabs in the lows when you're just travelling. You couldn't fight, but on the other hand you could get past pretty much all casual gatecamps. After the hicks go live you won't be able to do that anymore, which will be a fairly large blow to small low-sec groups (the type that can't gather a kill-team at any given time of the day). ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.19 20:05:00 - [93] Lol at the people saying a cruiser class vessel is unkillable/unshakable.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.19 23:17:00 - [94] Originally by: Ottman well combine that ship with huggin and ceptor means insta death for transport ships, scramed and webbed to hell, even mwd dont work then. means that was it with blocade running. MfG ottman How is the HIC any different from a lachesis with 8 points of scram? And btw, huginns dont lock fast enough to stop blockade runners. I've ran plenty of huginn camps in the past.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.19 23:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Gamesguy How is the HIC any different from a lachesis with 8 points of scram? You mean 7 points? As said above: - The HIC doesn't have to gimp the rest of the fitting because it's not using 7 mid slots, but one high-slot - Hence, can fit sensor boosters for plenty of lock speed, which the Lachesis can't - Hence, can fit an MWD and actually keep the blockade runner scrambled when it tries to run away from the tackler, - and hence, can fit a tank that can actually last very nicely against sentry fire even in small gangs As also said above, this doesn't mean the end of the world, just that low-sec has become even more risky, which makes it even less attractive. Something that low-sec really didn't need. (And for 0.0, it means you can bubble a gate, and then get the HIC to scram the blockade runner who can't just MWD out of the bubble to escape like it could with a dictor, because the HIC can keep up and just keep its scram on the target. No need to use the bubble mode in 0.0, really. Your only option when a HIC is present is to MWD back to the gate. Rename the ship class "blockade survivor", please. But I don't mind this change to 0.0 too much, it's not really a problem.)
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.20 00:07:00 - [96] Edited by: Gamesguy on 20/11/2007 00:08:23 Originally by: Arkady Sadik Originally by: Gamesguy How is the HIC any different from a lachesis with 8 points of scram? You mean 7 points? As said above: - The HIC doesn't have to gimp the rest of the fitting because it's not using 7 mid slots, but one high-slot - Hence, can fit sensor boosters for plenty of lock speed, which the Lachesis can't - Hence, can fit an MWD and actually keep the blockade runner scrambled when it tries to run away from the tackler, - and hence, can fit a tank that can actually last very nicely against sentry fire even in small gangs As also said above, this doesn't mean the end of the world, just that low-sec has become even more risky, which makes it even less attractive. Something that low-sec really didn't need. (And for 0.0, it means you can bubble a gate, and then get the HIC to scram the blockade runner who can't just MWD out of the bubble to escape like it could with a dictor, because the HIC can keep up and just keep its scram on the target. No need to use the bubble mode in 0.0, really. Your only option when a HIC is present is to MWD back to the gate. Rename the ship class "blockade survivor", please. But I don't mind this change to 0.0 too much, it's not really a problem.) ' Wrong, I mean 8 points of scram. Warp scramblers have 18km range on a lachesis, AND it can fit 3 sensor boosters, and I'm pretty sure it has better scan resolution than HICs. In addition, You won't be mwding anywhere with a huginn webbing you, if there is no huginn, nothing stops you from mwding back to the gate. As for sentry fire, a bs or two can easilly remote rep the recons. In addition, MY blockade runner warps as fast as a shuttle. I've never ever had even an inty lock me before I warp. So I don't know wtf kind of fitting you're putting on your blockade runner(plates?) that lets a cruiser sized vessel lock it before it warps. And the cloak trick is alive and well. So in conclusion. Idiots who don't know how to fit blockade runners will have a problem with heavy dictors, people with a brain will not, just like how we dont even against triple sensor boosted lachesis with 8 points of scram(I happen to own one of those, and you cannot lock a well setup blockade runner before it warps).
Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.20 02:12:00 - [97] Originally by: Arkady Sadik This changes a few things, not just for blockade runners. Blockade Runners will obviously be affected. Currently, a BR can just warp out of most low-sec gate camps. "Oh, gate camp warp" - with this change, a BR will have to check whether there's a HIC among the ships, and if so, act as if there are quite a lot of inties among them (the MWD/cloak thing). As this is now getting more and more of a requirement for the BR, please consider giving them a pg bonus to actually be able to fit one as a standard fit, without having to fill the lows with fitting mods. This.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.20 07:10:00 - [98] Originally by: Gamesguy Wrong, I mean 8 points of scram. Warp scramblers have 18km range on a lachesis Could you please confirm that you see no difference between a 18km scram and a 30km scram? -- Gradient forum
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.11.20 08:21:00 - [99] Edited by: Niffetin on 20/11/2007 08:23:17 I have used 4x Domination Warp Scrambler + 3x Sensor Booster II Lachesis as lowsec tackler and it works like a charm and can stop anything from warping except a fully stabbed Armageddon <.< WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.20 08:38:00 - [100] Its simple all that needs to be done for low-sec is to put in Covops Blockade runners,everything else would most likely be combat have no stabs and be tackled anyway. 0.0 is 0.0 and I have no comment on that.
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.11.20 08:40:00 - [101] There is still noway to catch you if you use the mwd+cloak trick in lowsec. WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:36:00 - [102] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Gamesguy Wrong, I mean 8 points of scram. Warp scramblers have 18km range on a lachesis Could you please confirm that you see no difference between a 18km scram and a 30km scram? Can you please confirm faction scram costs pennies?
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:46:00 - [103] In context of this discussion thread,with a 30km infinite point scram and v.fast locking times there will be. I'm curious as to see exactly how the Pirate community takes to these new ships,but if they do decide to camp low-sec gates harder,and in larger gang numbers,you can be sure a blockade runner with an improved cloak isn't going to cut it anymore.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.20 09:47:00 - [104] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 20/11/2007 09:50:28 Scripted HIC Bubbler should only affect Capitals or low-sec gate camps are going to be seriously overpowered. Would be the equivalent of being able to fire the interdiction probe at a target like a missile so only shuts down the target's warp drive. Very bad idea to make the HIC bubbler focus affect any ship. Keep it to capital drive disruption only or you'll have Onyx/Broadswords being even more overpowered and low-sec become a no-man's land. The warp dis field can only be used in 0.0, the focus can be used in 1.0 to 0.1 space but you have to lock the target for the module to work. Will be very interesting to see the first 40 man onyx/broadsword camp with all their bubbles running. THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.20 10:56:00 - [105] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 20/11/2007 09:50:28 Scripted HIC Bubbler should only affect Capitals or low-sec gate camps are going to be seriously overpowered. Would be the equivalent of being able to fire the interdiction probe at a target like a missile so only shuts down the target's warp drive. Very bad idea to make the HIC bubbler focus affect any ship. Keep it to capital drive disruption only or you'll have Onyx/Broadswords being even more overpowered and low-sec become a no-man's land. The warp dis field can only be used in 0.0, the focus can be used in 1.0 to 0.1 space but you have to lock the target for the module to work. Will be very interesting to see the first 40 man onyx/broadsword camp with all their bubbles running. You DO have to lock to use the focused mode, its basically an infinite warp scram. Which is no different from a lachesis with some ridiculous number of points, neither one is gonna be able to lock a blockade runner before it warps.
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.20 11:12:00 - [106] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: Gamesguy Wrong, I mean 8 points of scram. Warp scramblers have 18km range on a lachesis Could you please confirm that you see no difference between a 18km scram and a 30km scram? Can you please confirm faction scram costs pennies? What faction scram? The scripted HIC scram will have a range of 30km at max skills unless I am mistaken. -- Gradient forum
I SoStoned	Posted - 2007.11.20 12:10:00 - [107] Originally by: CCP Mindstar * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. Uhhhh, okay? What does this mean? That no matter how many stabs a ship fits, this thing will lock it down, period, as long as it can keep up (as it has no idiot speed limitation in that mode)? http://www.voogru.com/images/signature/farmers.jpg
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.20 12:51:00 - [108] Originally by: I SoStoned Originally by: CCP Mindstar * When the focusing script is loaded, the disruptor works like a regular warp disruptor, however it ignores the warp core strength of the target ship and will scramble anything. Uhhhh, okay? What does this mean? That no matter how many stabs a ship fits, this thing will lock it down, period, as long as it can keep up (as it has no idiot speed limitation in that mode)? Exactly that. It means that your only survival options are: - try to warp out before it can lock you. Good luck unless you're in a very fast ship, considering the Broadsword can fill all mids with sensor boost. - try to get back to gate. Requires MWD, tank and luck (no web on you). If you're in a ship that can't fit MWD and/or can't tank, you die. Period. - Cloak and hope they don't decloak you. Means you must have a cloak to travel in lowsec, and also means you need to get lucky (decloaking someone in a slow cloaked ship isn't that hard, if the HIC pilot is awake, the things move pretty fast). - Kill the HIC. Good luck with that, considering he'll also have a nice friendly gang with him, most likely. Currently CCP statistics show low-sec population to be about 17%. This change should drop it easily down into the single digit range.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.20 12:58:00 - [109] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 20/11/2007 00:08:23 In addition, MY blockade runner warps as fast as a shuttle. I've never ever had even an inty lock me before I warp. So I don't know wtf kind of fitting you're putting on your blockade runner(plates?) that lets a cruiser sized vessel lock it before it warps. And the cloak trick is alive and well. So in conclusion. Idiots who don't know how to fit blockade runners will have a problem with heavy dictors, people with a brain will not, just like how we dont even against triple sensor boosted lachesis with 8 points of scram(I happen to own one of those, and you cannot lock a well setup blockade runner before it warps). You're Amarr, blessed with a blockade runner that is both extremely agile and has enough low-slots to fit every damn low-slot mod in the game. The rest of us are getting by on 1-2 low-slot mods competing with poor agility and that's it. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.20 13:00:00 - [110] Edited by: MOS DEF on 20/11/2007 13:03:07 Originally by: Niffetin Edited by: Niffetin on 20/11/2007 08:23:17 I have used 4x Domination Warp Scrambler + 3x Sensor Booster II Lachesis as lowsec tackler and it works like a charm and can stop anything from warping except a fully stabbed Armageddon <.< Now imagine you can replace all those scrams with a sick tank and put one single tackling mod in a free hislot instead. That's the broadsword or onyx for you. Oh and it can do twice your damage too wich means you need to bring less buddies. Adding to that: Your single hislot tackles at 30 range wich gets rid of that lil chance the target had to decloak at the wrong spot.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:10:00 - [111] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 20/11/2007 00:08:23 In addition, MY blockade runner warps as fast as a shuttle. I've never ever had even an inty lock me before I warp. So I don't know wtf kind of fitting you're putting on your blockade runner(plates?) that lets a cruiser sized vessel lock it before it warps. And the cloak trick is alive and well. So in conclusion. Idiots who don't know how to fit blockade runners will have a problem with heavy dictors, people with a brain will not, just like how we dont even against triple sensor boosted lachesis with 8 points of scram(I happen to own one of those, and you cannot lock a well setup blockade runner before it warps). You're Amarr, blessed with a blockade runner that is both extremely agile and has enough low-slots to fit every damn low-slot mod in the game. The rest of us are getting by on 1-2 low-slot mods competing with poor agility and that's it. My alt uses a viator actually.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.20 23:18:00 - [112] It DOES pretty much mean the end of most lowsec missioning, since it will be MUCH more difficult to move most missioning ships - or the mats to build them - in. Nobody will be foolhardy enough to take a battleship out, and even a HAC would be a dicey proposition. GG CCP, I'll stick to my hisec mission farming now :)
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:06:00 - [113] Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin It DOES pretty much mean the end of most lowsec missioning, since it will be MUCH more difficult to move most missioning ships - or the mats to build them - in. Nobody will be foolhardy enough to take a battleship out, and even a HAC would be a dicey proposition. GG CCP, I'll stick to my hisec mission farming now :) Use a scout?
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:24:00 - [114] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin It DOES pretty much mean the end of most lowsec missioning, since it will be MUCH more difficult to move most missioning ships - or the mats to build them - in. Nobody will be foolhardy enough to take a battleship out, and even a HAC would be a dicey proposition. GG CCP, I'll stick to my hisec mission farming now :) Use a scout? Not a bad idea, and one I use on hauling runs already, but vs. hisec missions the risk/reward is way off with HICs involved ... at least by the looks of it. We'll have to wait until it hits tranq to see if the results are as predicted :)
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.11.21 00:40:00 - [115] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 21/11/2007 00:44:24 I do think Hactor's will have a major effect on losec, some good, a lot bad. Though I don't see how Blockade Runners are the biggest losers. Their built-in WCS won't help, but their built-in agility and decent speed will, nor are they sacrificing anything by fitting a cloak. The people who are going to have the most problems will be those flying T1 haulers, mining ships, and the less agile combat ships. And newer pilots in general, as always. It's not the end of the world, especially with the other scripting changes making things more difficult for snipers. But Hactor camps will be extremely dangerous and require some tactical readjustments for people running them. Speed, scouts, teamwork, cloaks, experience, and basic common sense are still going to win the day most of the time. Pirates will adapt, so will everybody else. It's just that some people will adapt by not bothering any more, and most of losec is already too barren. If it goes too far, it's not going to be good for anybody there, pirates included. edit: That probably sounds worse than I actually feel about it. Long story short, losec needed new content and resources even more than it needed a Mom fix, and maybe even more than it needed new ways to interdict ships after WtZ. Perhaps the low quality boosters will balance this out, but I don't know. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Stephannus Calimben mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.21 05:46:00 - [116] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 21/11/2007 00:44:24 It's just that some people will adapt by not bothering any more, and most of losec is already too barren. If it goes too far, it's not going to be good for anybody there, pirates included. edit: That probably sounds worse than I actually feel about it. Long story short, losec needed new content and resources even more than it needed a Mom fix, and maybe even more than it needed new ways to interdict ships after WtZ. Perhaps the low quality boosters will balance this out, but I don't know. it still stands that the lowsec that has good targets either has good lvl4 missions or is on a trade route between major trade hubs or a main 0.0 entrance. Those areas will always be travelled because it's the fastest way through, and theres just not enough pirates in the game to totally eliminate the risk vs reward for traders looking to take a shortcut. There will always be noobs who autopilot their faction ships through lowsec, who fly everything they own in a t1 hauler, who think afk shuttles are an invincible way to get their bpo's into empire, and on and on and on. what the lack of content is destroying is targets in belts or targets that can be probed out, and until lvl 5's come along. all that these HICs will do is make it easier to catch those stab-monkey battleships, and free up a point on everybody else. Rather than everybody using up a midslot for a point, they can all fit a web, or a remote sensor booster, or more tank/cap regen/ecm or whatever. it's nice that the pirates FINALLY got a new toy to play with, after they've taken away so many from us ______________ ...mmm fire... ______________
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.21 06:32:00 - [117] Originally by: Stephannus Calimben Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 21/11/2007 00:44:24 It's just that some people will adapt by not bothering any more, and most of losec is already too barren. If it goes too far, it's not going to be good for anybody there, pirates included. edit: That probably sounds worse than I actually feel about it. Long story short, losec needed new content and resources even more than it needed a Mom fix, and maybe even more than it needed new ways to interdict ships after WtZ. Perhaps the low quality boosters will balance this out, but I don't know. it still stands that the lowsec that has good targets either has good lvl4 missions or is on a trade route between major trade hubs or a main 0.0 entrance. Those areas will always be travelled because it's the fastest way through, and theres just not enough pirates in the game to totally eliminate the risk vs reward for traders looking to take a shortcut. There will always be noobs who autopilot their faction ships through lowsec, who fly everything they own in a t1 hauler, who think afk shuttles are an invincible way to get their bpo's into empire, and on and on and on. what the lack of content is destroying is targets in belts or targets that can be probed out, and until lvl 5's come along. all that these HICs will do is make it easier to catch those stab-monkey battleships, and free up a point on everybody else. Rather than everybody using up a midslot for a point, they can all fit a web, or a remote sensor booster, or more tank/cap regen/ecm or whatever. it's nice that the pirates FINALLY got a new toy to play with, after they've taken away so many from us It is really fun how most pirates are totally lacking the good sense to know that a excessive hunter populations against a small prey population is a bad thing and that further reducing the chance for the prey to flee is only exacerbating the problem. The pirates have a lot of toys from day 1, adding something for them is the worse possible idea for low sec. This new toy was added against the capital and supercapitals in low sec but will help reduce again the low sec population as it will remove most chances of escape to ship from cruiser up. Whe I first started EVE and WCS had not drawbacks there was a tale of a faction titted raven killed in low sec practically every week. Now it is months I don't see one of those. I dubt it is for lacking of pirates or tools for them, it is only that people with faction fitting generally avoid low sec as the plague.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.22 23:24:00 - [118] Originally by: Liang Nuren Full passive Myrmidon uses [PDU/SPR II] + 5x SPR II + 3x CDFP I = 9 Full passive Drake uses 4x SPRII + 3x CDFP I + Shield Recharger I = 8 Sure, they gain superior tanking - but at what cost? They're slightly mobile bricks with tanks better than most battleships. All the costs already mentioned above. Rather than repeating myself I'll point you to this thread. Why the about face? Quote: Active tanking (even if you devoted the same slottage to it) simply can't keep up - and has additional vulnerabilities to nos/neut. Liang I've read that argument before. I disagreed then and I still do now. There's no reason an active tank should be able to match a passive one slot for slot, after all it doesn't make the same sacrifices and can run cap intensive modules. An "all slot" active tank is sub optimal because some modules contribute very little ie: extra cap buffer. Looking at it from another angle: will a passive tank with (mwd/web/scram and has at least one damage mod tank as much dps as an active tank? No it won't, despite using as many slots. It goes both ways, these are different tanking methods with different pros and cons. So where are these complete passive tanks overpowered? The role of bait is really limited and a passive armor tanked ship does it extremely well too with the advantage of not collasping when its peak is bypassed by high incoming dps. And they tackle. Is it in gang warfare? Certainly not. No tackle, low dps, no e-war, they contribute very little to a gang. Fleets? lol Solo is where it can be argued, because they cannot be broken by a same sized ship, good thing eve isn't a single player game. Without a propulsion mod they get nowhere fast and make for easy targets once backup arrives.
Tairon Usaro The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:14:00 - [119] just put a scan resolution malus and immunity to remote sensor boost support on the module per se, lets say factor of 10 longer locking time, along with total immunity to any support upon module activation, this will do the job. HICs just can only effectively target super-caps because every thing smaller takes ages to lock with standard fitting. They might be able to tackle smaller (capitals BS BC ) if they extremly compromise their own fitting by 3 sensor booster which can be counter acted by remote sensor dampeners or jamming. the 0.0 function is not affected since it is area effect. voila HIC has its intended role and does not completly scew up low sec ________________________________________________ Some days i loose, some days the others win ...
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.11.23 10:34:00 - [120] its not going to be fun :( i feel that my blokade runner will be opsolete :( HIC can use hi slot scram.. that means soem of them can fit a tank that tanks sentrys perma and it has room for mwd to keep up whit the target.. those things gan go bloddy fast aswell :/

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