Originally by: NATMav

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As long as pilots continue to autopilot through empire in slowboating haulers with no tank, there will be pilots who look to profit from their demise.

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Originally by: BuckStrider

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Dear Re Mi,

Have you ever thought of using T2 haulers?

Your truly,

BuckStrider

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 03:54:11

Originally by: Admiral Pelleon

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Originally by: Divus

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i agree with tha op - but what can we do i ask you?

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Good question. What can you do? Be aware that our supplies, are your supply line link to Empire, and it CAN be cut through this kind of warfare. What happens if ships and modules stop flowing at the same time your home systems are being attacked and your services are being knocked off line? What happens if trit and POS fuel stops getting delivered to your doorstep? Empire is a lifeline to any alliance under stress. You kill empire, you kill 0.0. As far as what you can do, keep the major wars in 0.0. Don't make it my problem.

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You do understand most large alliances, and even most small ones, are completely self sufficient right?

We only have a few hundred members and empire being 50 jumps away means we have nothing to rely on besides ourselves.

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Surely you jest. 0.0 is anything but self sufficient. They have vast piles of isk that goes towards buying huge quantities of empire goods. Empire provides the surge capacity that makes alliances viable when they need to fight a war. If that is true that 0.0 is self sufficient, then who is buying all of my stuff? Its not mission runners. Its not small corps/alliances in empire.

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Originally by: Hrin

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I see you are unfamiliar with my corp

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Originally by: Kaaii

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Originally by: Hrin

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I see you are unfamiliar with my corp

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right, never under estimate the power of ebay..

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Originally by: BuckStrider

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Dear Re Mi,

Have you ever thought of using T2 haulers?

Your truly,

BuckStrider

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It doesn't matter what you use to haul, if you bring enough firepower to bear, you are dead (and yes I use T2). Anyone who can knock off a Freighter, can take out a Transport. The problem is that instead of cargo expanders and cargo rigs in an Iteron V, I need to use Armor tank in an Occator to haul the same goods, or use a Viator and fly gate to gate. The volume of what I can haul gets cut in 1/2 (or less), and what I do haul is much more labor intensive. Prices go up as a result in order to pay for that, and the extra risks I take.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Originally by: Divus

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i agree with tha op - but what can we do i ask you?

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Good question. What can you do? Be aware that our supplies, are your supply line link to Empire, and it CAN be cut through this kind of warfare. What happens if ships and modules stop flowing at the same time your home systems are being attacked and your services are being knocked off line? What happens if trit and POS fuel stops getting delivered to your doorstep? Empire is a lifeline to any alliance under stress. You kill empire, you kill 0.0. As far as what you can do, keep the major wars in 0.0. Don't make it my problem.

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Originally by: Magicbob

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:( I lost my hauler to goons. I will cry now.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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I make my isk off of slothful, lazy, overworked and rich people, or various combinations thereof. They are far too lazy or busy to be bothered to fly to Jita, so they pay me.

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Quote:

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I fully realize they haul to carrier jump points. Thats why I stock certain nearby systems with goods. Often the prices aren't that much worse than Jita, and are well worth it for people to buy there rather than making the long haul. I think the trip to Jita is much easier for your alliance however, as there are Forge carrier jump points right near Jita that you have access too. Most other Alliances don't have that luxury.

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Quote:

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As far as the haulers being killed, I am not referring to the hauls to drop points, those are targets as everyone who has hauled to them knows. I am referring to organized piracy much deeper within empire that affects whole regions that is sponsored by major alliances, not just the lowsec ganks near drop points which are expected, and if you scout at all, can prevent. You should care, it affects your supply alts the most. Some of what I believe is happening is that they look at what you are hauling and where you are hauling it first until they ID your alt by scanning you a few times. Sometimes the scan ships are lined up 2 or 3 at a gate on major trade routes. Then they turn your name over to pirates to mark red as a "juicy target", so that even if you don't have any cargo, you are still scanned and checked wherever you go. You lose freedom of movement, and are forced to rely on Concord, more scouting, warping to zero more heavily (which sucks if you are using alts).

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Quote:

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You do not own this animal, you do not control it, and it can just as easily be turned on you, as anyone else. In that regard, we have a common problem. In the end, all it does is make trade harder, which makes your life more difficult and more expensive. Alliances can make adjustments during a war, and get the supplies they need, ganking haulers makes it harder. The unfortunate part is that that area will take much longer to recover, and may never recover its economic base. Anyway, where do you think all that stuff in Jita comes from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air. People like me build it.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Originally by: NATMav

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As long as pilots continue to autopilot through empire in slowboating haulers with no tank, there will be pilots who look to profit from their demise.

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I tank, I take precautions, and I escape far more often than I get killed. I am not asking for zero risk. I am pointing out that higher risk makes hauling more expensive and difficult, and that by targetting haulers, alliances are not going to be successful in the long run at maintaining their own supply chain. The only result alliances will see is that prices go up and choices go down.

If a major alliance decides you need to die, you will die as a hauler. No hauler can escape a row of 8 Domis lined up at the gate, with good intel, planning and leadership. They will go down.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:55:35
Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:54:53

Originally by: Gamesguy

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Most people supply their own equipment in jita, with hauler alts that move them down to lowsec and carriers that jump them up into 0.0.

You provide no service that 0.0ers cant handle themselves in far greater volume. So why shouldn't they kill you?

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I make my isk off of slothful, lazy, overworked and rich people, or various combinations thereof. They are far too lazy or busy to be bothered to fly to Jita, so they pay me.

I fully realize they haul to carrier jump points. Thats why I stock certain nearby systems with goods. Often the prices aren't that much worse than Jita, and are well worth it for people to buy there rather than making the long haul. I think the trip to Jita is much easier for your alliance however, as there are Forge carrier jump points right near Jita that you have access too. Most other Alliances don't have that luxury.

As far as the haulers being killed, I am not referring to the hauls to drop points, those are targets as everyone who has hauled to them knows. I am referring to organized piracy much deeper within empire that affects whole regions that is sponsored by major alliances, not just the lowsec ganks near drop points which are expected, and if you scout at all, can prevent. You should care, it affects your supply alts the most. Some of what I believe is happening is that they look at what you are hauling and where you are hauling it first until they ID your alt by scanning you a few times. Sometimes the scan ships are lined up 2 or 3 at a gate on major trade routes. Then they turn your name over to pirates to mark red as a "juicy target", so that even if you don't have any cargo, you are still scanned and checked wherever you go. You lose freedom of movement, and are forced to rely on Concord, more scouting, warping to zero more heavily (which sucks if you are using alts).

You do not own this animal, you do not control it, and it can just as easily be turned on you, as anyone else. In that regard, we have a common problem. In the end, all it does is make trade harder, which makes your life more difficult and more expensive. Alliances can make adjustments during a war, and get the supplies they need, ganking haulers makes it harder. The unfortunate part is that that area will take much longer to recover, and may never recover its economic base. Anyway, where do you think all that stuff in Jita comes from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air. People like me build it.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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Surely you jest. 0.0 is anything but self sufficient. They have vast piles of isk that goes towards buying huge quantities of empire goods. Empire provides the surge capacity that makes alliances viable when they need to fight a war. If that is true that 0.0 is self sufficient, then who is buying all of my stuff? Its not mission runners. Its not small corps/alliances in empire.

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Originally by: pandymen

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Edited by: pandymen on 18/11/2007 06:54:10
I think the op misses a very key point. All that hauling...all that trading and supplying he does, is just a drop in the bucket. You claim that the ppl killing you are killing their own market...yet you ignore the fact that they get around half of your loot without paying much of anything. If you are using t1 haulers...they can suicide you in destroyers...lose a mil isk, and just recycle disposable alts once they lose too much standing.

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