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Skelator
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:40:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff. 
LOL P**%%ycat you mean you will have to "Work for a living now"
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 20:59:00 -
[62]
Edited by: McWatt on 06/03/2004 21:00:42
Quote:
Edited by: S3VYN on 06/03/2004 18:01:01
Silly carebear, don't you know that the forums are only for pirates and THEIR opinions?
just count and see. but yes, somehow you re right, counting only clever posts, pirates are way ahead.
Quote:
Really, it's sad to see that none of the real pirates post to things like this to shut down their whining cohorts.
funny. you decide who s a real pirate and who not? for instance we do only 0.0 business. still the change is troubling me.
1. it is another change towards a strongly restricted PvP system.
2. we know that carebears are always hungry. the next cry will be about ppl sniping from 150k, ppl tanking sentrys, ppl hunting in belts. the next claim will be for a secure way into 0.0/for high end ores in low sec space.
you re breeding carebears in empire. don t expect them to change.
Quote:
You guys need to understand something. The people you gank while gate camping have spent a LOT of time and energy gathering whatever you just took from them in 30 seconds. It's much easier for you to adapt to a new situation (such as increased sentry ranges) than it is for those people to rebuild whatever they lost.
they were unprepared. better planning next time.
Quote:
Now let's say you actually went hunting and found people in belts to gank... Well, they have a fighting chance first of all, secondly they are doing something profitable in an area where they know the risks and thirdly you guys are almost guaranteed that the kill will be worth it.
sorry, but this is clueless.
1. they are equipted for mining/NPC hunt. their chance is the fast warp out.
2. what they do is nowhere as profitable as transporting high value stuff is. you should know the risk of low sec travelling as well.
3. the kill will be worth nothing compared to any BP, mineral, skillpack drop
Quote:
... You guys who are complaining are simply low-skilled and uncreative if you can't find ways OTHER THAN GATE CAMPING EMPIRE SPACE to kill people in industrials or strong ships with mining setups.
so you re asking pirates to fight pirates and again claim to know about our skilllevels. sorry, but the first is not our job while the latter is not yours.
Quote:
Finally... gate camping is NOT PvP. I don't see ANY changes CCP has made to actual PvP that will keep you from fighting another willing and prepared individual. You guys hide behind the banner that you want better PvP when in reality you want less risk for yourself when in general you are ALREADY SHOOTING HELPLESS PLAYERS.
so your claim is, that EVERYONE travelling in low sec space is a helpless player? not a single person of those ~3000 players is able to fight back? all noobs?
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S3VYN
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Posted - 2004.03.06 21:05:00 -
[63]
Nope... I'm claiming that gate camping 1.0 gates in a 0.4 system is lame. This has always been my feeling and you won't change that.
I'm not a pirate. I don't know what you can and cannot do. I know that gate camping seems extremely lame. I ALSO know that I watched Tank CEO's video 100 times or so and those guys were getting paid OR getting kill satisfaction.
I think it's ludicrous for all of these other people to run to the forums and cry because their easy prey has been taken away. Tank and CO. didn't seem to have any problem finding prey and eliminating it in a couple of hours.
Perhaps you need to acquire the skill level those guys have before you can be an effective pirate? I don't know, that's not my direction. All I do know is they can do it and you claim you can't.
So as a recap...
1) There is documented proof that it is possible and can be done by a few players in a timely fashion and with a high profit margin.
2) People here claim they can NOT do this.
3) I'm the one with a problem? hmmm....
------------------------------------- //
The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be. |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.03.06 21:50:00 -
[64]
Edited by: McWatt on 06/03/2004 21:51:46
S3VYN, your rather clever in dodging my points. the way you always bring up that gate to 1.0 is an example of this.
that gate is completly irrelevant. what you want to do is just shifting the frontier one system.
could we discuss the general issue of gateguns here, and not one specific case please?
did all systems need a nerf, for that one gate?
(btw, the real problem, if we start discussing ill placements of stuff, is mining arkanor next to empire systems)
and for the rest:
1. nowhere have i claimed that hunting is not possible.
2. we cannot hunt ppl who travel through empire space. the guns forbid it.
3. i don t know what problem you re talking about.
the guns at least wont solve any problems. they simply shift ppl further away from any prey that might like to counter attack, they make it more difficult to guess the pirates camping points and finally make the setup more fragile, which will result in more pirates avoiding combat if being cornered.
why do you feel that ppl should move securely through low secure space???
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SgtMorgan Kane
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Posted - 2004.03.06 22:31:00 -
[65]
Well well poor pirets,i had an incedent in Crierele the other day when i ran into m0o 5 or6 members gate camping and next thing i saw in local chat was "i will shoot shuttels" note i was in shuttel.
Well the big strong m0o is botherd whit shuttels killing just for fun is shows the inportant of 150km range of sentrys.
Now the PC pirets that are talking about quiting GOOD
i will not cry for you leaving the game and more the merryer
But if not STOP CRYING....[:xPirets have for long time dominated the game and CCP is trying to even the skore and about time
I like to thank CCP for this bacous now i might build somthing up instead always trying to replace ships
Pirets you just have to stay in 0,0 space and fight pepole that are as strong as you.OMG oh my,Pirets have to fight pepole whit skills HAHAHAHA ABOUT TIME 
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Putin Yerpod
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Posted - 2004.03.06 23:35:00 -
[66]
Quote:
I'm not a pirate, but i have to agree with them that the range increase is a bit draconian. A warning would have been fair
Umm that would be just like the warning the gate camping griefers give you before you jump into their trap
Now all the people making an easy living ganking n00bs at gates will have to actually learn PvP - and you think they need a Warning??! On the shelves in the store maybe ...
***Danger*** This game (now) requires skill
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Ywev
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:16:00 -
[67]
How does a miner, get all his money? Well he mines, there are no guns in belts, I still like visiting such places. Yes, you can mine in .5 with cops, but is that really where the good ore is. No. Gun ranges on your ship can be increased, just train some skills. I sit outside the range and pop at indy's still.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Vodalus
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:29:00 -
[68]
Quote:
this change was much needed, ganking people at 65km is boring and this forces pirates to come up with something new and exciting ways of making money.
exactly
--------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: Oveur
EVE is primarily a PVP game
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Admiral Jojon
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Posted - 2004.03.07 00:35:00 -
[69]
Ah, finaly, 150km Sentry guns. Now Player pirates will actualy need some skill and brains if they will continue pirating 
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VinkNut
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Posted - 2004.03.07 01:28:00 -
[70]
Edited by: VinkNut on 07/03/2004 01:29:14
Yes, great! and if a player pirate attacks someone in 0.4 space, they can get clean away!
Awesome move!
I do wish people would try and think about things logically before jumping on the "haha carebare pirates have to work for something" bandwagon.
CONCORD protect players, SG's are to protect gates and stations.
If you think that this blanket increase of SG range in all sec systems is "fair" then you need to fire up any spare neurons you may have and have a re-think.
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Cineas
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Posted - 2004.03.07 02:12:00 -
[71]
My look its the same people arguing about the same pvp points.
I have to agree with whoever said it. Gate camping is not PVP. Gate camping is sitting and clicking a button. FPS actually requires reflexes this does not.
Lets face it, gate camping was getting silly. Yes people can avoid it, yes people should be better prepared. But it was hindering alot of peoples enjoyment of the game, which is why I play, don't know about other people.
People who want to gate camp still have options. With the guns range increased I can't see why it has affected PVP as much as some people have posted about.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.03.07 03:24:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Ah, finaly, 150km Sentry guns. Now Player pirates will actualy need some skill and brains if they will continue pirating
1 tempest with 5 tracking enhancers
1 nub rat in a bb using remote sensor boosters
now a rat can gank away without any risk from people firing back...the normal npc hunter doesnt have a target range of 150km. Bounty hunters cannot warp in at 60km in the hope of warp scrambling. 150km range = alot harder to bm a location to warp back at later.
So actually, I was in error earlier when I said that ccp never patch in favor of pirates, this is the first one.
So please, all you empire pirates stay in empire
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.03.07 03:26:00 -
[73]
need to post this seperat as it was a total after thought.
Isnt 150km the max range for any missile?
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S3VYN
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Posted - 2004.03.07 04:42:00 -
[74]
Quote:
S3VYN, your rather clever in dodging my points. the way you always bring up that gate to 1.0 is an example of this.
that gate is completly irrelevant. what you want to do is just shifting the frontier one system.
could we discuss the general issue of gateguns here, and not one specific case please?
did all systems need a nerf, for that one gate?
My concerns are specific. I'm not dodging any of your arguments, it's just that I don't really care about them.
My specific concerns in my posting can be summed up by saying I run a corporation who thrives on helping brand new players learn the game and enjoy it. I thought that was an honorable calling in the game, some say I'm a carebear and throw other remarks meant to be derogitory at me. Whatever.
This specific gate became a problem when Shiva was released because Orvolle went from a 0.5 area to a 0.4. Immediately it became a warzone and many players were trapped and killed there and still are.
Fighting is really cool in this game. I like that you guys do it and hope you continue to. I may even have to try it soon to see what all the hubbub is about. I like the way things are set up now. I wouldn't have changed the sentry gun range if it were up to me but now it's done. My whole goal is to get people away from the camping of systems in empire space and open things up a bit. I think, honestly, that it would make the game more fun for everyone, not just me.
I don't have an axe to grind, I honestly want the game to be better for everyone.
Don't misunderstand my opinions for arguments. I'm simply carrying out a debate on the forum so we can find the best information possible for CCP to base future changes on.
I respect your opinions and when talking about PvP you are obviously going to be correct on things much more than I am as you have superior experience to me in that field. I don't think it should be any easier than it already is (from my point of view and the way I play the game) for someone to kill me. Take that at face value.
------------------------------------- //
The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be. |
Darodem
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Posted - 2004.03.07 07:53:00 -
[75]
yeah mcwatt or whoever you are I don't respect your opinion at all.
Quote:
stfu. how about sentrys in belts , protecting the roids?
You are not even a good pirate, you don't know me or what I do in game and I consider you a lame griefer looking for another excuse to blame your problems on someone else so you can get let off the hook for being a lamer.
You dont see any "real players" complaining about the rules we all have to follow. Sometimes the rules change and you need to adapt instead of whining.
So... STFU crimes committed by stupid rigid lamers don't pay.
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Aegis Osiris
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Posted - 2004.03.07 09:38:00 -
[76]
This was mentioned earlier, and probably the more experienced (and well equipped) pirates have already considered it. Deployable warp disruptors are, iirc, suppose to pull someone out of warp and then keep them from warping away.
You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field.
Just an idea.
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mafish
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:15:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Edited by: S3VYN on 06/03/2004 18:01:01
Quote:
losers? lol. stick to what you do best carebear. stop posting.
Silly carebear, don't you know that the forums are only for pirates and THEIR opinions? Quit clogging up the forums with opinions that a MMORPG should be about teamwork and strategy instead of "point and click style fighting" like a FPS.
Really, it's sad to see that none of the real pirates post to things like this to shut down their whining cohorts.
The gate-camping community won't be happy until there is a guaranteed kill in 1.0 space every time they decide they want to ruin someone's day.
You guys need to understand something. The people you gank while gate camping have spent a LOT of time and energy gathering whatever you just took from them in 30 seconds. It's much easier for you to adapt to a new situation (such as increased sentry ranges) than it is for those people to rebuild whatever they lost.
Now let's say you actually went hunting and found people in belts to gank... Well, they have a fighting chance first of all, secondly they are doing something profitable in an area where they know the risks and thirdly you guys are almost guaranteed that the kill will be worth it. The chances of someone with no money and no ships actually spending time working in low security space are much smaller than that same player passing through low security space using the gates.
I really think you guys are just griefers. The reason I say this is that I talk to pirates on a routine basis who would LOVE to actually PvP someone in 0.0 space. But you guys don't GO THERE TO FIGHT THEM. Instead you sit at gates and shoot the helpless. Any progress CCP can make towards separating the real pirates from you wanna-bes is well placed. Real pirates still make money, real pirates still have territories and real pirates are STILL A THREAT TO ALLIANCES. Gate camp 0.0 territory if you are hell-bent on gate camping. You guys who are complaining are simply low-skilled and uncreative if you can't find ways OTHER THAN GATE CAMPING EMPIRE SPACE to kill people in industrials or strong ships with mining setups.
Finally... gate camping is NOT PvP. I don't see ANY changes CCP has made to actual PvP that will keep you from fighting another willing and prepared individual. You guys hide behind the banner that you want better PvP when in reality you want less risk for yourself when in general you are ALREADY SHOOTING HELPLESS PLAYERS.
Edit: typo :\
very well said and also tbh ne one with skill will have no prop ajusting to this i have all ready seen someone nearly lose a cruiser at a gate after they changed the range i didnt see what person moaning about the range + what will moaning do ccp aint gonna change it back cos 100 unhappy wannabe pirates are complaining it affects everyone not just you so stfu and deal with it
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Enriques
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Posted - 2004.03.07 11:59:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Enriques on 07/03/2004 12:00:03
In my opinion there was two ways CCP could have delt with the problem of gate camping in 0.4-0.1.
1. Increase sentry gun range.
2. Complete removal of sentry guns in 0.4-0.1
Option 1 would favour the majority of Eve players, option 2 favours pirates. Obviously CCP had to do something, the current gate ganking tactic was wholely unacceptable. They chose option 1, since the majority of players do not wih to engage in pvp.
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Bexxly
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Posted - 2004.03.07 12:10:00 -
[79]
Quote:
This was mentioned earlier, and probably the more experienced (and well equipped) pirates have already considered it. Deployable warp disruptors are, iirc, suppose to pull someone out of warp and then keep them from warping away.
You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field.
Just an idea.
I don't think they work like that, only prevent warp travel rather than destabilise a moving ships warp field thingy.
ofc, I may be very wrong in that statement 
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Denathis Arabar
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Posted - 2004.03.07 15:33:00 -
[80]
Ok i dont have time to read all the posts but i got about half way through them and got the basic argument here. Pirates are complaining about this change saying they cannot fight now.
Pirates have proved you can camp gates within the range of guns, this was emulated by Zombies in their griefing as they choose the wrong system to do it.
Also i hear the usual cried of this will end PvP ect. The sad fact is the fights at the gates do not resemble PvP in any way what so ever. You cannot deney there are only ever one sided battles at the gates. Sitting shooting players from 80km away when they have no hope of reply is not PvP. This will infact encourage true player fights. All it stops is people who are not in any position to fight being killed. There was no danger in that for the attacker and no fun in it for the "defender" (or runner as that is about the only option most had).
I say well done ccp, the guns dont even insta kill battleships anyhow, just my thoughts on the subject.
P.S what was the cry that always went up from pirates? stay out of 0.0 if you dont want to be killed!!!!
Why dont people go to 0.0 if they want to kill?
There is also declaring war.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.03.07 16:32:00 -
[81]
"You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field."
Warp disruptors cannot be installed in empire space.
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Styrmir
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Posted - 2004.03.07 16:32:00 -
[82]
Quote:
Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base!
Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup?
Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.03.07 17:05:00 -
[83]
Quote:
Quote:
Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base!
Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup?
The day AFTER the change was made. The first warning anyone got about the increased sentry range was getting tagged by the sentry guns.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
S3VYN
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Posted - 2004.03.07 18:32:00 -
[84]
I do agree with the argument that you guys should have been warned earlier about the range change. I wouldn't be happy if mechanics fundamental to my survival changed without notice and I lost a ship over it.
------------------------------------- //
The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be. |
SYCO
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Posted - 2004.03.07 18:51:00 -
[85]
beh least the sentries damage didn't go up.....u can still throw a few hardners on and pop a cruiser before the sentries get ya shield down...however the pickup is another story hehe....soooo IMO throw some hardners on and let er rip at 15km from those sob's....just be careful heheh
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Temujin Destovai
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Posted - 2004.03.07 20:59:00 -
[86]
It was our fault sry :/
The Chronicles of Xanadu |
Angst
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Posted - 2004.03.07 21:41:00 -
[87]
Xanawho?
(\_/)
(X.x)
gank -----Tihs iz gank bunneh. Employ at gates
for max bunnage. |
Borunel
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Posted - 2004.03.08 02:07:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Borunel on 08/03/2004 02:08:27
I suppose the proof of the pudding is in this. I really hate non-consensual PvP and just don't want to expose myself to the possibility of it if I can help it.
I particularly disliked the idea of being popped as soon as I arrived in a system without getting anything constructive done.
Consequently I had no plans whatsoever of even considering going into no-sec space even though the idea of bringing back a hold full of the good stuff was quite appealing.
Well now guess what? With this change I kind of know I am not likely to get 'instakilled' by a pallid unwashed and acne ridden computer science student as soon as I appear in a dangerous system. So I am starting to visit these places now.
I fully accept that these places are dangerous and I know the risk I take going there and I can cheerfull accept them, knowing that if I take precautions I have a chance to leg it.
I also accept that I might not get away if the pirates know their stuff but the key point is that I now, as a non-aggressive player am a bit happier with the balance ad the tradeoff that now exists.
So does that make the P'Rats feel any better? One more customer for you that you wouldn't otherwise have had.
I'll try to avoid being even seen by you let alone being popped but when you do manage it I'll accept that consequence with a shrug and a whistle. Can't say fairer than that.
Thumbs up to CCP for the increased range on sentries therefore - at a stroke it has the potential to stop player bunching and to push the action away from the quiet zones and into the interesting frontiers where we all know it should have been to start with.
<<You call them Yulai and Aurohunen and P3 and and a hundred other systems - We used to call it Brit. Bridge - and it never made any sense then either matey! - Jack Blood>> |
Adriana
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Posted - 2004.03.08 07:43:00 -
[89]
I like the changes. What they mean is that if you want to gate camp now you will have to have a lot of time in to get your skills up high enough to get past the 150km range. By the time you can do that it probably isn't worth your time to camp gates in empire space anymore anyway. This will promote trade to lower sec space, and open up more research/factory slots in lower sec space since gates/stations are generally a lot safer to travel too/from now.
It still won't stop suicide tactics, ie kestrals with an indi waiting to loot the kills, but it is a big improvement.
Oh and for those complaining you had no warning, I can almost sympatize with you. Almost. Then I ask myself the question...how many times did you warn people you were waiting to gank them in 1.0 space? Space which is supposed to be safe?
Pirating should be for less traveled areas. Pirating should be dangerous. Pirates should have to have mad skils and lead a hard life. There aren't enough penalties for pirates as of yet imoho. That said, it does have it's place. The best ores and what not are in 0.0 space. If you want the rewards, you need the risk since the game AI isn't up to snuff to provide the excitement that PvP combat does. Real PvPers won't complain about these changes, just griefers after easy kills. Real pirates will be hunting in 0.0 looking for non noob miners who are there trying to make some isk off rare ores.
In short, the way Eve is set up, it takes so much time to get your skills up that you really have no chance against a skilled PvPer in the first few months, even if you are rigged for combat. So this is just another way of pushing the PvPers away from the noobs while they grow up some.
Furthermore it's a good move overall financially. Most people don't like PvP. I posted in another thread about some other games. Look at shadowbane, incredible game, but griefing killed it, and many other games like it. Look at everquest, 3 pvp servers, over 40 non pvp servers. the pvp servers consistently have the lowest player count. Why? because while people might like PvP they want it to be consentual. Ganking noobs from a battleship isn't PvP, it's griefing.
The one thing I do hope is that they do not remove the PvP aspect from Eve. I haven't engaged in it myself, and have no intentions of doing so for a while (not ready yet), but the only end game eve currently has is PvP. there are no "uber" mobs, no rare as all heck bling to show off to people so they can oooo and ahhh over your skills. There are player alliances fighting against player alliances. This will always be better than a computer AI since people are unpredictable (well, to a point).
So for the gate gankers, no love for you at all. For the skilled players who hunt down their prey, I still don't like you, you are bad people, but I recognize your place in Eve, and definatly respect your skills...enough so that I'll try my best to run like crazy. Especially since a mining rig is in no way a match for even some of the combat rigged frigates, I mean what am I gonna do? reprocess your ship with my mining lasers> ....hmmm, theres a thought, if they do what they do to rock, maybe they should do something to a targeted ship as well?
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Christopher Xen
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Posted - 2004.03.08 12:21:00 -
[90]
Nope it ws no bug buddy. 95% of EVE couldnt hack it so they whined and cryed and the devs caved.
Heaven forbid you should interrupt thier mininng and trading carebear sim
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