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Why have the gate guns range been increased?

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Jamze	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:15:00 - [1] I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:20:00 - [2] "I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp." ... like already mentioned in every other forum section, the sentries range has been without warning increased to 150 km, by design. so bye, i guess. o.o;
Jamze	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:26:00 - [3] Quote: "I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp." ... like already mentioned in every other forum section, the sentries range has been without warning increased to 150 km, by design. so bye, i guess. o.o; Where is this mentioned in forums?
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:29:00 - [4] Kind of silly ...... CCP Mongo speaks !!
Enraku Reynolt	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:31:00 - [5] worse part is no more NPC convoy raids unless your willing to risk a tanked up battleship ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.03.06 01:33:00 - [6] "Where is this mentioned in forums?" There's threads about it in the General, Ships'n'Modules and Patch Review sections at least... that's the ones i can remember anyway, just browse for anything locked with 'sentries' in the subject. ^^;
myggan	Posted - 2004.03.06 02:27:00 - [7] its sad to say that this game is turning into a mining simulation
Nashal Couronne	Posted - 2004.03.06 02:45:00 - [8] Oh please. "This game is turning into a mining simulator" has been the melodramatic cry from every player who just wants easy kills right from the start of the game. Question: Is there still lots of PvP in EVE? Answer: YES Question: Will there still be lots of PvP in EVE after the sentry changes? Answer: YES At least attempt to adapt and develop new stratagies before you begin your incessant whinging. ((I will conceed the point that this was poorly thought out in respects to informing the playerbase and also in regards too convoy hunters, but this will in no way kill off PvP))
killswitch	Posted - 2004.03.06 02:46:00 - [9] /me waits for a "cancelled" thread by players quiting.
Natty Gan	Posted - 2004.03.06 02:59:00 - [10] Looks like you will have to use some skill now and hunt players within your own skill range. Instead of killing unwary noobs.
Cineas	Posted - 2004.03.06 03:04:00 - [11] Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base!
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.03.06 03:47:00 - [12] Gineas; I agree with that. It would've been good for CCP to post the sentry gun range increase to the news so that it'd be visible on log-in. Still, as for the change -- pirates have been claiming that the fact that sentry ranges are 60km -means- that CCP wanted to allow gate-ganking; CCP has demonstrated that they don't approve of the tactic by changing the system to make it dangerous. This, however, does not eliminate PvP in .4-.0 Empire -- there are still no sentry guns in belts, after all, or at Points of Interest. So? Hunt the miners! They're the ones who very explicitly acknowledge the danger by trying to profit from the system's rating.
killswitch	Posted - 2004.03.06 03:48:00 - [13] Edited by: killswitch on 06/03/2004 03:50:47 you miners/traders should understand that gate camping isn't about ganking "noobs" as you politely call them, its about catching one of the many miners/traders that transport bps and other goodies in low level frigs to avoid a good lock time. So stop getting behind the new players and using them as scapegoats to lash out at the pirates. (note, this was to Natty Gan and others before this last post snuck in)
myggan	Posted - 2004.03.06 03:58:00 - [14] Edited by: myggan on 06/03/2004 03:59:04 Oh please. "This game is turning into a mining simulator" has been the melodramatic cry from every player who just wants easy kills right from the start of the game. Question: Is there still lots of PvP in EVE? Answer: YES Question: Will there still be lots of PvP in EVE after the sentry changes? Answer: YES At least attempt to adapt and develop new stratagies before you begin your incessant whinging. ((I will conceed the point that this was poorly thought out in respects to informing the playerbase and also in regards too convoy hunters, but this will in no way kill off PvP)) oh please mate i personaly dotn do pirating i am one of thosse as they call it carebears but if there wouldnt be any pirats in eve the market would chrash everysystem would be mined out within a mounth and even more bithing on eve for realising new things so lets face the truth pirats are needed in this game or ami just deadly wrong about this
Natty Gan	Posted - 2004.03.06 04:05:00 - [15] Killswitch you handsome devil you. IÆm not against gate camping but the sad fact is a ton of noobs lost their first ships to this tactic. You really canÆt argue with this.
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.06 04:06:00 - [16] Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 06/03/2004 04:07:25 I dont gate camp in empire anymore, but i still think this is a really ****ty move made by ccp, when Im bored I like to knock off npc convoys in torrinos, oh well This is nearly as a bad as the security gain, I aint killed any1 in empire for 3months now and I am at -4.2, will concord ever forget?
killswitch	Posted - 2004.03.06 04:30:00 - [17] thats true, and your dead wrong, im not handsome at all
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.06 04:39:00 - [18] Quote: I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp. Be a good little camper and go complain about something on the forums! ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Bosie	Posted - 2004.03.06 05:47:00 - [19] "(Race name here) Sentry Gun" Range about 48K "(Race name here) Sentry Gun I" Range about 60K ... etc... I know this as the buggers were shooting me all last night. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Darodem	Posted - 2004.03.06 06:43:00 - [20] Did someone turn out the lights and start a pirate whining topic?
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.06 08:19:00 - [21] Quote: Did someone turn out the lights and start a pirate whining topic? stfu. how about sentrys in belts , protecting the roids? happy mining, then.
M0RIARTY	Posted - 2004.03.06 08:40:00 - [22] I'm not a pirate, but i have to agree with them that the range increase is a bit draconian. A warning would have been fair. Maybe it should only have been applied to sentry guns in .5 and above perhaps, dunno, as I have said in many other threads about many other subjects, its hard to find a good balance, maybe they will change it again soonÖ It may even be a tactic on CCP's part to make peeps use the deployable warp disrupters, (are they out yet)? I for one would miss pirates at gates as it adds a bit of spice to the game. Noo sig comming SOONÖ =================================================== What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care!
Eviljohn	Posted - 2004.03.06 08:53:00 - [23] its not just about gate camping if i kill a ship and he runs to the station in his pod i can no longer chase him to finish the job. if we think of ways around this we get banned !! and now i here if u log off u auto warp to a safe spot so when u see a pirate or pk'ers in local u just log off. i also understand there just about to nerf the ew and warp jamming so if u find someone in a belt they still have a 95 percent chance of getting away. looks like ccp are a bunch of tree hugging hippies who love dull miners paying for the drinks at the pink flamingo. our corp and our allies are looking for a new game that allows pvp and does what it says on the description and suggestions!!!!
Bobbeh	Posted - 2004.03.06 09:14:00 - [24] Lots of pvp oppurtunities? not really, actually there isnt. i camp in one of the busiest 0.0 systems and tbh you hardly ever see an indy/ battleship go past. In a 0.1 system however, you do. This is people in all kinds of ships carrying decent stuff. If miners or npc'ers see us in system they just run, now they have another safe haven, by stargates. so actually combat in belts is very very hard to find. imo they might aswell put police in 0.1-0.4 because there is very little you can do as far as pirating/pvp goes nowadays. Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking.
Chaz Pounder	Posted - 2004.03.06 10:15:00 - [25] I just say stop nurfing us pirates hint -The "evil doers" is under threat of extermination in EVE- Call international HOT-LINE 555-ccpdontreallycareaslongasthaygettheremonthlypayche
Thrawn Armidious	Posted - 2004.03.06 11:08:00 - [26] Quote: I just say stop nurfing us pirates Oh man, you guys are crazy. It is so frustrating to read the forums. I recently lost a very nicely fitted Black Bird to gate camping. Some guy was in a BS 70km out and blew me up before I made it to the gate. Had I returned fire the sentry guns would have destroyed me. There was nothing I could do. It was the second ship I had lost in 4 hours and I was out of money. Had to burrow a bunch to get back on my feet. I didn't complain though, the way I figured it, it was my fault for not paying enough attention and not having a MWD equipped. But for the camper, it was a no risk situation. Worst case senario would have been the victum getting away. So what does this mean for eve? Absolutly nothing. You guys are freaking out because now you don't have a no risk way to kill players. Now it is harder to kill players in empire space. So what? Is that indy's latest omber hual really that important to you? Go out to 0.0 space where real pvp happens. On a side note, Convoys should have NPC escorts, not 150km sentry guns protecting them.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2004.03.06 11:12:00 - [27] Hmmm does this mean convoy hunting is no longer possible?
FINDER	Posted - 2004.03.06 11:42:00 - [28] To all you pirates , WHAAAA to bad. LOOSERS have a nice day
Bobbeh	Posted - 2004.03.06 11:44:00 - [29] losers? lol. stick to what you do best carebear. stop posting. Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking.
Arius Jordani	Posted - 2004.03.06 11:56:00 - [30] Well I happened across the info by accident in EVE Guardian. I agree the way it was communicated, and its impact on convoy raiding are both wrong, and seem poorly thought through. Maybe its a precursor to removing some or all of the guns from 0.1/0.2, or a reduction in their power, or making them destroyable in low sec ... Otherwise, tough luck on the pirates, it wasn't your turn this time Pirates (ship self-destruct delay) 1 - 1 Carebears (150km sentries) I'd call that a draw for this week, for which you can thank-the-TANK
Nafri	Posted - 2004.03.06 12:29:00 - [31] mhhhh, sounds bad, every miner/NPC hunter logs when he sees pirates in 0.0. so its hard to find some action until somebody comes up with 20BS Wanna fly with me?
DedGuy	Posted - 2004.03.06 13:33:00 - [32] Hmmmm, so the pirates are complaining that they can't take out defenceless people anymore? Fun. Try 'real' pirating, with risk involved ffs, challenges are better than anything no-risk. Rumors of my clones death are greatly exaggerated. But I am still INACTIVE Millennium Elder
Kaaii	Posted - 2004.03.06 13:45:00 - [33] You can thank Zombies for this one Not carebears Not CCP "GRie....er pirates" Whine to them "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
Fanible	Posted - 2004.03.06 13:46:00 - [34] I don't pansily gate camp defenseless players, so I don't care about the change. Also I don't think when someone logs out that it transports them to safety right away. It takes a little bit of time just as before when it'd take a little time to cloak. But instead of just cloaking, it seems that when you loggin you're in a safe zone and it auto warps you to where you were. So the "safe zone" instead of disappearing doesn't seem to be any difference to me with the logging out trick of trying to get away. -------------------------------------- The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Fanible	Posted - 2004.03.06 14:14:00 - [35] Anyways, guess what's up on the news? You all got your wish. A little late, but I guess you helped your fellow camping pirates eh? -------------------------------------- The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.03.06 14:19:00 - [36] While gate camping isnt a good way to pirate alot of non pirates dont seem to realise that belt hunting in empire just doesnt work. The local channel is more or less an early warning system for non pirate who will run to the nearest, station, planet/moon, or safe spot as soon as danger rears its head. Give us some way to actually belt hunt effectivly in empire and you'll see alot less gate camping overall. The negative effect of doing that is thr unrecoverable sec hits that will keep empire rats out of the core systems. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
NeoChrome	Posted - 2004.03.06 14:58:00 - [37] I find it so utterly sad that the CCP once again bowed to the CAREBEAR community by implementing this completly ignorant change. This is beggining to resemble a teletubbie convention i'm afraid.....what is even more ignorant is that this will surely make the game become even more boring....
PussyCat	Posted - 2004.03.06 15:03:00 - [38] OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff.
Morfhman	Posted - 2004.03.06 15:05:00 - [39] WOOOHOOO Pirets comlpaning HAHAHAHAH Poor bastards I thinks its time we non-pirets got somting to better our lives this game CCP has been favoring pirets to long
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.06 15:06:00 - [40] Quote: You can thank Zombies for this one Not carebears Not CCP "GRie....er pirates" Whine to them Oh? Yeah I can see how Zombine Inc tanking the sentry guns from under 10km away from the stargate in Yulai and using smartbombs (with a range of 5km) to destroy people was the motivating factor behind the sentry gun range increase. /me puts down the Clue Bat, leaving the blindly fanatical Kaaii laying dazed and confused in revelation I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.03.06 15:09:00 - [41] Quote: OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff. Me me me.
Leitari	Posted - 2004.03.06 15:11:00 - [42] this change was much needed, ganking people at 65km is boring and this forces pirates to come up with something new and exciting ways of making money. Here, Only the silent survive.
Eviljohn	Posted - 2004.03.06 16:13:00 - [43] as ppl have said alot of wellknown pirates cant hunt in the belts because ppl will see them in local and run so gate camping for a while brings a fleet to sort u out this is were the fun is, a bit of cat and mouse weve had some great battle with some good corps in the area of space we have picked to hunt. if ccp made a mod that made us not appear in local we would be very happy to hunt in belts and find ppl with the scanner. the problem with the sec hit that ppl get now is they have a batte with someone that there not at war with one night they get a massive sec hit so what do they do a do countless boring missions in the little space they can use or kill countless ncp for 10 months or become a full time pker or pirate. then while there traped in no mans land ccp takes away there way of killing and hunting i know some dull assed carebears are going to like this but sort it out ccp
hellwarrior	Posted - 2004.03.06 16:33:00 - [44] side note: how much dmg do they do now? second of all: you can still hunt belts/npc spawns/and also i believe you can reach rediculous optimal ranges with tracking computers... like over 200km :>
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.06 16:58:00 - [45] Quote: WOOOHOOO Pirets comlpaning HAHAHAHAH Poor bastards I thinks its time we non-pirets got somting to better our lives this game CCP has been favoring pirets to long There has never been a patch that has favoured pirates. So I challenge you to pick one and back up your useless piece of drivel. Pirates have been hampered: Sentry guns added to 0.4 and below. Jump in points got done away with. Anchorable warp inhibitors. Sentry Guns increased. None of the above affects me, or has ever affected me beacause before castor I always camped gates and not jips and since castor I have found a new home in deep space. The one thing that has affected some of my friends, alot of bounty hunters and myslef is the security status situation. Why the **** do we no longer have the decline any more? So Morfhman, who do you think has gained over the life of EvE?
Cpt Azrael	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:01:00 - [46] Superb!! score one for the proper players of eve, enjoy your endless warping to belts looking for that nonexistant miner I for one welcome the sentrys as i was one of those who fell to zombie in yulai, they didnt care about fair play, picking on new players cos they think its funny. I can assure you that a number of new players to the game (as in a few hours/Days) wont be back because of that (all to similar to counterstrikes griefing idiots) Own goal pirate scum, own goal Enjoy the &rse end of space outcasts, the proper players will be enjoying the comfort of commerce and trade with the ever watchful eye of concord as our wingmen
Br0ke	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:02:00 - [47] If one truly desires to fight pilots >150k from gates, it is still their prerogative. Albeit with a bit more teamwork and different ships/equipment. But this is no skill at arms, and has always been frowned upon by enlightened pilots. Only the weak of mind engage in such skilless conflict. Has already mentioned, true, personal combat is very much alive throughout the empire. Just last night we were able to unburden a great number of pilots from their cumbersome material possessions. ------ Follow the Left Hand Path
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:05:00 - [48] Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 06/03/2004 17:06:39 Quote: But this is no skill at arms, and has always been frowned upon by enlightened pilots. Only the weak of mind engage in such skilless conflict. Are you not reffering to mining scordite, no skill, no risk and any fool can do it. Gate camping is risky, takes a bit of skill (not much), only people with some balls can do it
Roger Welco	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:51:00 - [49] Edited by: Roger Welco on 06/03/2004 17:52:54 maybe what is needed here is some logical thought.... 150km, is needed to protect the pilots in safe empire space.. so let that setting be for safe empire space.. .4 and below set the range back.. after all i always viewed the sentry guns around a low sec, as protecting the gate, not so much there customers. This will make the pirates happy, but will also mean they cant do it in policed space, with as much ease.....
Sally B	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:54:00 - [50] Little by little, CCCP nerfs PvP. Eventually they'll nerf it so much so it will be one of many dead muds that nerfed it too much. Everquest in space, how horrible.
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.06 17:55:00 - [51] Edited by: S3VYN on 06/03/2004 18:01:01 Quote: losers? lol. stick to what you do best carebear. stop posting. Silly carebear, don't you know that the forums are only for pirates and THEIR opinions? Quit clogging up the forums with opinions that a MMORPG should be about teamwork and strategy instead of "point and click style fighting" like a FPS. Really, it's sad to see that none of the real pirates post to things like this to shut down their whining cohorts. The gate-camping community won't be happy until there is a guaranteed kill in 1.0 space every time they decide they want to ruin someone's day. You guys need to understand something. The people you gank while gate camping have spent a LOT of time and energy gathering whatever you just took from them in 30 seconds. It's much easier for you to adapt to a new situation (such as increased sentry ranges) than it is for those people to rebuild whatever they lost. Now let's say you actually went hunting and found people in belts to gank... Well, they have a fighting chance first of all, secondly they are doing something profitable in an area where they know the risks and thirdly you guys are almost guaranteed that the kill will be worth it. The chances of someone with no money and no ships actually spending time working in low security space are much smaller than that same player passing through low security space using the gates. I really think you guys are just griefers. The reason I say this is that I talk to pirates on a routine basis who would LOVE to actually PvP someone in 0.0 space. But you guys don't GO THERE TO FIGHT THEM. Instead you sit at gates and shoot the helpless. Any progress CCP can make towards separating the real pirates from you wanna-bes is well placed. Real pirates still make money, real pirates still have territories and real pirates are STILL A THREAT TO ALLIANCES. Gate camp 0.0 territory if you are hell-bent on gate camping. You guys who are complaining are simply low-skilled and uncreative if you can't find ways OTHER THAN GATE CAMPING EMPIRE SPACE to kill people in industrials or strong ships with mining setups. Finally... gate camping is NOT PvP. I don't see ANY changes CCP has made to actual PvP that will keep you from fighting another willing and prepared individual. You guys hide behind the banner that you want better PvP when in reality you want less risk for yourself when in general you are ALREADY SHOOTING HELPLESS PLAYERS. Edit: typo :\ ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Sally B	Posted - 2004.03.06 18:03:00 - [52] PC Pirates 1) Pirates can't say their opinions 2) Pirates can't write petitions 3) Pirates can't grid exploit Carebears 1) Carebears can rant and troll their whining unlimited 2) Carebears can write twentysix thousand friviolus petitions and CCP caves in 3) Carebears can mine arkonor in industrials
Clipped Wings	Posted - 2004.03.06 18:07:00 - [53] Quote: OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff. OMGOMG, people can no longer ruin some rookie's EVE experience. What is it with all pirates (almost all, anyway) whining about how they no longer can whack people without any risk whatsoever. That, unfortunately, merely goes to prove that most pirates are lazy, cowardly, and don't really care whether their actions mean anything to other players at all. Seriously, you guys whining about it are sad... "Oh no, I can no longer, in a risk-free way kill off random players by playing on the fact that if they return fire, they'll get killed by the sentry guns, I'm gonna quit this stupid game now!" ...Sighs Then quit, or shut up. Or both. Really. -Clipped Wings of LFC "I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man." ~William Hazlitt
Clipped Wings	Posted - 2004.03.06 18:12:00 - [54] Quote: Little by little, CCCP nerfs PvP. Eventually they'll nerf it so much so it will be one of many dead muds that nerfed it too much. Everquest in space, how horrible. Isn't PvP about fighting? What you're complaining about is your loss of risk-free ganking ships that are weaker than you, not your ability to fight people. But then again, do you ever choose a battle over a one-sided slaughter? -Clipped Wings of LFC "I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man." ~William Hazlitt
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.06 18:47:00 - [55] As far as pvp goes, this change separates the mice from the men. Looks like we got a lot of mice :) ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.06 18:59:00 - [56] Quote: Quote: OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff. OMGOMG, people can no longer ruin some rookie's EVE experience. What is it with all pirates (almost all, anyway) whining about how they no longer can whack people without any risk whatsoever. That, unfortunately, merely goes to prove that most pirates are lazy, cowardly, and don't really care whether their actions mean anything to other players at all. Seriously, you guys whining about it are sad... "Oh no, I can no longer, in a risk-free way kill off random players by playing on the fact that if they return fire, they'll get killed by the sentry guns, I'm gonna quit this stupid game now!" ...Sighs Then quit, or shut up. Or both. Really. What's a 'rookie' doing in low sec space? And is it really an issue of stupid game mechanics that send them there? Lvl 1 agents sending peole into low sec space is an issue of game mechanics. The 'rookie' choosing to go there is not an issue of game mechanics. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.06 19:10:00 - [57] You'll get no disagreement from me on that particular point Jash. But it doesn't make the people who would choose to gate camp gates where they KNOW the majority of people are newbies any less lame. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Frost88	Posted - 2004.03.06 19:33:00 - [58] I haven't read teh whole topic so I may be repeating someone, but how about gate guns have 150km range if gate camping is so evil and stations have 65 again? I don't want to mine ever again and convoys were gonna be my main source of income now I have no chance of doing this, why not just remove from the game CCP? All they do now is cause my framerate to drop. And way to go fro telling us about this change! Could've used that info on the front page yesterday right before my unisnurd caracal exploded in my face, I've petionted it and I suggest anyone else who has been royally ****** over by the game in this way to do so too. /me sells all ships and weapons and gets a thorax and some mining lasers. woot. ------------------------------------------------ I've always owned Kehmor, cheap as chips off Ebay
Death Ranger	Posted - 2004.03.06 19:35:00 - [59] {OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff.} ill take it convo me in-game your stuff will be put to better use then any carebear could use it. Also The CCp needs to think over their protection of carebears. First some people get banned because ccp is too lazy to fix concord and police and now 150km sentry guns. What next cops in 0.0 space. Hearing what i just said ccp will probably find my idea genius and implement it so if anyone in ccp reads this cops in 0.0 space is NOT a good idea.
Zarks	Posted - 2004.03.06 20:39:00 - [60] Edited by: Zarks on 06/03/2004 20:42:02 Why? because gate ganking will die from it, and thats a good thing. In other words, declare war or go look for your prey. Pirate life should be hard in empire space anyway.
Skelator	Posted - 2004.03.06 20:40:00 - [61] Quote: OMG OMG tell me that u r kidding, Serious 150 km, How can u gank noobs in 0.4 space now. GOD I am quiting eve any1 want my stuff. LOL P**%%ycat you mean you will have to "Work for a living now" They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.06 20:59:00 - [62] Edited by: McWatt on 06/03/2004 21:00:42 Quote: Edited by: S3VYN on 06/03/2004 18:01:01 Silly carebear, don't you know that the forums are only for pirates and THEIR opinions? just count and see. but yes, somehow you re right, counting only clever posts, pirates are way ahead. Quote: Really, it's sad to see that none of the real pirates post to things like this to shut down their whining cohorts. funny. you decide who s a real pirate and who not? for instance we do only 0.0 business. still the change is troubling me. 1. it is another change towards a strongly restricted PvP system. 2. we know that carebears are always hungry. the next cry will be about ppl sniping from 150k, ppl tanking sentrys, ppl hunting in belts. the next claim will be for a secure way into 0.0/for high end ores in low sec space. you re breeding carebears in empire. don t expect them to change. Quote: You guys need to understand something. The people you gank while gate camping have spent a LOT of time and energy gathering whatever you just took from them in 30 seconds. It's much easier for you to adapt to a new situation (such as increased sentry ranges) than it is for those people to rebuild whatever they lost. they were unprepared. better planning next time. Quote: Now let's say you actually went hunting and found people in belts to gank... Well, they have a fighting chance first of all, secondly they are doing something profitable in an area where they know the risks and thirdly you guys are almost guaranteed that the kill will be worth it. sorry, but this is clueless. 1. they are equipted for mining/NPC hunt. their chance is the fast warp out. 2. what they do is nowhere as profitable as transporting high value stuff is. you should know the risk of low sec travelling as well. 3. the kill will be worth nothing compared to any BP, mineral, skillpack drop Quote: ... You guys who are complaining are simply low-skilled and uncreative if you can't find ways OTHER THAN GATE CAMPING EMPIRE SPACE to kill people in industrials or strong ships with mining setups. so you re asking pirates to fight pirates and again claim to know about our skilllevels. sorry, but the first is not our job while the latter is not yours. Quote: Finally... gate camping is NOT PvP. I don't see ANY changes CCP has made to actual PvP that will keep you from fighting another willing and prepared individual. You guys hide behind the banner that you want better PvP when in reality you want less risk for yourself when in general you are ALREADY SHOOTING HELPLESS PLAYERS. so your claim is, that EVERYONE travelling in low sec space is a helpless player? not a single person of those ~3000 players is able to fight back? all noobs?
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.06 21:05:00 - [63] Nope... I'm claiming that gate camping 1.0 gates in a 0.4 system is lame. This has always been my feeling and you won't change that. I'm not a pirate. I don't know what you can and cannot do. I know that gate camping seems extremely lame. I ALSO know that I watched Tank CEO's video 100 times or so and those guys were getting paid OR getting kill satisfaction. I think it's ludicrous for all of these other people to run to the forums and cry because their easy prey has been taken away. Tank and CO. didn't seem to have any problem finding prey and eliminating it in a couple of hours. Perhaps you need to acquire the skill level those guys have before you can be an effective pirate? I don't know, that's not my direction. All I do know is they can do it and you claim you can't. So as a recap... 1) There is documented proof that it is possible and can be done by a few players in a timely fashion and with a high profit margin. 2) People here claim they can NOT do this. 3) I'm the one with a problem? hmmm.... ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.06 21:50:00 - [64] Edited by: McWatt on 06/03/2004 21:51:46 S3VYN, your rather clever in dodging my points. the way you always bring up that gate to 1.0 is an example of this. that gate is completly irrelevant. what you want to do is just shifting the frontier one system. could we discuss the general issue of gateguns here, and not one specific case please? did all systems need a nerf, for that one gate? (btw, the real problem, if we start discussing ill placements of stuff, is mining arkanor next to empire systems) and for the rest: 1. nowhere have i claimed that hunting is not possible. 2. we cannot hunt ppl who travel through empire space. the guns forbid it. 3. i don t know what problem you re talking about. the guns at least wont solve any problems. they simply shift ppl further away from any prey that might like to counter attack, they make it more difficult to guess the pirates camping points and finally make the setup more fragile, which will result in more pirates avoiding combat if being cornered. why do you feel that ppl should move securely through low secure space???
SgtMorgan Kane	Posted - 2004.03.06 22:31:00 - [65] Well well poor pirets,i had an incedent in Crierele the other day when i ran into m0o 5 or6 members gate camping and next thing i saw in local chat was "i will shoot shuttels" note i was in shuttel. Well the big strong m0o is botherd whit shuttels killing just for fun is shows the inportant of 150km range of sentrys. Now the PC pirets that are talking about quiting GOOD i will not cry for you leaving the game and more the merryer But if not STOP CRYING....[:xPirets have for long time dominated the game and CCP is trying to even the skore and about time I like to thank CCP for this bacous now i might build somthing up instead always trying to replace ships Pirets you just have to stay in 0,0 space and fight pepole that are as strong as you.OMG oh my,Pirets have to fight pepole whit skills HAHAHAHA ABOUT TIME
Putin Yerpod	Posted - 2004.03.06 23:35:00 - [66] Quote: I'm not a pirate, but i have to agree with them that the range increase is a bit draconian. A warning would have been fair Umm that would be just like the warning the gate camping griefers give you before you jump into their trap Now all the people making an easy living ganking n00bs at gates will have to actually learn PvP - and you think they need a Warning??! On the shelves in the store maybe ... *Danger* This game (now) requires skill
Ywev	Posted - 2004.03.07 00:16:00 - [67] How does a miner, get all his money? Well he mines, there are no guns in belts, I still like visiting such places. Yes, you can mine in .5 with cops, but is that really where the good ore is. No. Gun ranges on your ship can be increased, just train some skills. I sit outside the range and pop at indy's still. Pod ya later.. Ywev
Vodalus	Posted - 2004.03.07 00:29:00 - [68] Quote: this change was much needed, ganking people at 65km is boring and this forces pirates to come up with something new and exciting ways of making money. exactly -------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game
Admiral Jojon	Posted - 2004.03.07 00:35:00 - [69] Ah, finaly, 150km Sentry guns. Now Player pirates will actualy need some skill and brains if they will continue pirating
VinkNut	Posted - 2004.03.07 01:28:00 - [70] Edited by: VinkNut on 07/03/2004 01:29:14 Yes, great! and if a player pirate attacks someone in 0.4 space, they can get clean away! Awesome move! I do wish people would try and think about things logically before jumping on the "haha carebare pirates have to work for something" bandwagon. CONCORD protect players, SG's are to protect gates and stations. If you think that this blanket increase of SG range in all sec systems is "fair" then you need to fire up any spare neurons you may have and have a re-think.
Cineas	Posted - 2004.03.07 02:12:00 - [71] My look its the same people arguing about the same pvp points. I have to agree with whoever said it. Gate camping is not PVP. Gate camping is sitting and clicking a button. FPS actually requires reflexes this does not. Lets face it, gate camping was getting silly. Yes people can avoid it, yes people should be better prepared. But it was hindering alot of peoples enjoyment of the game, which is why I play, don't know about other people. People who want to gate camp still have options. With the guns range increased I can't see why it has affected PVP as much as some people have posted about.
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.07 03:24:00 - [72] Quote: Ah, finaly, 150km Sentry guns. Now Player pirates will actualy need some skill and brains if they will continue pirating 1 tempest with 5 tracking enhancers 1 nub rat in a bb using remote sensor boosters now a rat can gank away without any risk from people firing back...the normal npc hunter doesnt have a target range of 150km. Bounty hunters cannot warp in at 60km in the hope of warp scrambling. 150km range = alot harder to bm a location to warp back at later. So actually, I was in error earlier when I said that ccp never patch in favor of pirates, this is the first one. So please, all you empire pirates stay in empire
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.07 03:26:00 - [73] need to post this seperat as it was a total after thought. Isnt 150km the max range for any missile?
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.07 04:42:00 - [74] Quote: S3VYN, your rather clever in dodging my points. the way you always bring up that gate to 1.0 is an example of this. that gate is completly irrelevant. what you want to do is just shifting the frontier one system. could we discuss the general issue of gateguns here, and not one specific case please? did all systems need a nerf, for that one gate? My concerns are specific. I'm not dodging any of your arguments, it's just that I don't really care about them. My specific concerns in my posting can be summed up by saying I run a corporation who thrives on helping brand new players learn the game and enjoy it. I thought that was an honorable calling in the game, some say I'm a carebear and throw other remarks meant to be derogitory at me. Whatever. This specific gate became a problem when Shiva was released because Orvolle went from a 0.5 area to a 0.4. Immediately it became a warzone and many players were trapped and killed there and still are. Fighting is really cool in this game. I like that you guys do it and hope you continue to. I may even have to try it soon to see what all the hubbub is about. I like the way things are set up now. I wouldn't have changed the sentry gun range if it were up to me but now it's done. My whole goal is to get people away from the camping of systems in empire space and open things up a bit. I think, honestly, that it would make the game more fun for everyone, not just me. I don't have an axe to grind, I honestly want the game to be better for everyone. Don't misunderstand my opinions for arguments. I'm simply carrying out a debate on the forum so we can find the best information possible for CCP to base future changes on. I respect your opinions and when talking about PvP you are obviously going to be correct on things much more than I am as you have superior experience to me in that field. I don't think it should be any easier than it already is (from my point of view and the way I play the game) for someone to kill me. Take that at face value. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Darodem	Posted - 2004.03.07 07:53:00 - [75] yeah mcwatt or whoever you are I don't respect your opinion at all. Quote: stfu. how about sentrys in belts , protecting the roids? You are not even a good pirate, you don't know me or what I do in game and I consider you a lame griefer looking for another excuse to blame your problems on someone else so you can get let off the hook for being a lamer. You dont see any "real players" complaining about the rules we all have to follow. Sometimes the rules change and you need to adapt instead of whining. So... STFU crimes committed by stupid rigid lamers don't pay.
Aegis Osiris	Posted - 2004.03.07 09:38:00 - [76] This was mentioned earlier, and probably the more experienced (and well equipped) pirates have already considered it. Deployable warp disruptors are, iirc, suppose to pull someone out of warp and then keep them from warping away. You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field. Just an idea.
mafish	Posted - 2004.03.07 11:15:00 - [77] Quote: Edited by: S3VYN on 06/03/2004 18:01:01 Quote: losers? lol. stick to what you do best carebear. stop posting. Silly carebear, don't you know that the forums are only for pirates and THEIR opinions? Quit clogging up the forums with opinions that a MMORPG should be about teamwork and strategy instead of "point and click style fighting" like a FPS. Really, it's sad to see that none of the real pirates post to things like this to shut down their whining cohorts. The gate-camping community won't be happy until there is a guaranteed kill in 1.0 space every time they decide they want to ruin someone's day. You guys need to understand something. The people you gank while gate camping have spent a LOT of time and energy gathering whatever you just took from them in 30 seconds. It's much easier for you to adapt to a new situation (such as increased sentry ranges) than it is for those people to rebuild whatever they lost. Now let's say you actually went hunting and found people in belts to gank... Well, they have a fighting chance first of all, secondly they are doing something profitable in an area where they know the risks and thirdly you guys are almost guaranteed that the kill will be worth it. The chances of someone with no money and no ships actually spending time working in low security space are much smaller than that same player passing through low security space using the gates. I really think you guys are just griefers. The reason I say this is that I talk to pirates on a routine basis who would LOVE to actually PvP someone in 0.0 space. But you guys don't GO THERE TO FIGHT THEM. Instead you sit at gates and shoot the helpless. Any progress CCP can make towards separating the real pirates from you wanna-bes is well placed. Real pirates still make money, real pirates still have territories and real pirates are STILL A THREAT TO ALLIANCES. Gate camp 0.0 territory if you are hell-bent on gate camping. You guys who are complaining are simply low-skilled and uncreative if you can't find ways OTHER THAN GATE CAMPING EMPIRE SPACE to kill people in industrials or strong ships with mining setups. Finally... gate camping is NOT PvP. I don't see ANY changes CCP has made to actual PvP that will keep you from fighting another willing and prepared individual. You guys hide behind the banner that you want better PvP when in reality you want less risk for yourself when in general you are ALREADY SHOOTING HELPLESS PLAYERS. Edit: typo :\ very well said and also tbh ne one with skill will have no prop ajusting to this i have all ready seen someone nearly lose a cruiser at a gate after they changed the range i didnt see what person moaning about the range + what will moaning do ccp aint gonna change it back cos 100 unhappy wannabe pirates are complaining it affects everyone not just you so stfu and deal with it
Enriques	Posted - 2004.03.07 11:59:00 - [78] Edited by: Enriques on 07/03/2004 12:00:03 In my opinion there was two ways CCP could have delt with the problem of gate camping in 0.4-0.1. 1. Increase sentry gun range. 2. Complete removal of sentry guns in 0.4-0.1 Option 1 would favour the majority of Eve players, option 2 favours pirates. Obviously CCP had to do something, the current gate ganking tactic was wholely unacceptable. They chose option 1, since the majority of players do not wih to engage in pvp.
Bexxly	Posted - 2004.03.07 12:10:00 - [79] Quote: This was mentioned earlier, and probably the more experienced (and well equipped) pirates have already considered it. Deployable warp disruptors are, iirc, suppose to pull someone out of warp and then keep them from warping away. You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field. Just an idea. I don't think they work like that, only prevent warp travel rather than destabilise a moving ships warp field thingy. ofc, I may be very wrong in that statement
Denathis Arabar	Posted - 2004.03.07 15:33:00 - [80] Ok i dont have time to read all the posts but i got about half way through them and got the basic argument here. Pirates are complaining about this change saying they cannot fight now. Pirates have proved you can camp gates within the range of guns, this was emulated by Zombies in their griefing as they choose the wrong system to do it. Also i hear the usual cried of this will end PvP ect. The sad fact is the fights at the gates do not resemble PvP in any way what so ever. You cannot deney there are only ever one sided battles at the gates. Sitting shooting players from 80km away when they have no hope of reply is not PvP. This will infact encourage true player fights. All it stops is people who are not in any position to fight being killed. There was no danger in that for the attacker and no fun in it for the "defender" (or runner as that is about the only option most had). I say well done ccp, the guns dont even insta kill battleships anyhow, just my thoughts on the subject. P.S what was the cry that always went up from pirates? stay out of 0.0 if you dont want to be killed!!!! Why dont people go to 0.0 if they want to kill? There is also declaring war.
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.03.07 16:32:00 - [81] "You can often deduce the most well-travelled track between gates in a system. Just park a distruptor with a reasonable range (the medium size is like 10-20km?) on that line, more then 150km from the gate, and your problem is solved. Indeed, you can fit for nasty close action, since you can sit right next to the distruptor field." Warp disruptors cannot be installed in empire space.
Styrmir	Posted - 2004.03.07 16:32:00 - [82] Quote: Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base! Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup? Founder and Manager of The Misneden Shuttle Museum
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.07 17:05:00 - [83] Quote: Quote: Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base! Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup? The day AFTER the change was made. The first warning anyone got about the increased sentry range was getting tagged by the sentry guns. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.07 18:32:00 - [84] I do agree with the argument that you guys should have been warned earlier about the range change. I wouldn't be happy if mechanics fundamental to my survival changed without notice and I lost a ship over it. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
SYCO	Posted - 2004.03.07 18:51:00 - [85] beh least the sentries damage didn't go up.....u can still throw a few hardners on and pop a cruiser before the sentries get ya shield down...however the pickup is another story hehe....soooo IMO throw some hardners on and let er rip at 15km from those sob's....just be careful heheh
Temujin Destovai	Posted - 2004.03.07 20:59:00 - [86] It was our fault sry :/ The Chronicles of Xanadu
Angst	Posted - 2004.03.07 21:41:00 - [87] Xanawho? (\_/) (X.x) gank -----Tihs iz gank bunneh. Employ at gates for max bunnage.
Borunel	Posted - 2004.03.08 02:07:00 - [88] Edited by: Borunel on 08/03/2004 02:08:27 I suppose the proof of the pudding is in this. I really hate non-consensual PvP and just don't want to expose myself to the possibility of it if I can help it. I particularly disliked the idea of being popped as soon as I arrived in a system without getting anything constructive done. Consequently I had no plans whatsoever of even considering going into no-sec space even though the idea of bringing back a hold full of the good stuff was quite appealing. Well now guess what? With this change I kind of know I am not likely to get 'instakilled' by a pallid unwashed and acne ridden computer science student as soon as I appear in a dangerous system. So I am starting to visit these places now. I fully accept that these places are dangerous and I know the risk I take going there and I can cheerfull accept them, knowing that if I take precautions I have a chance to leg it. I also accept that I might not get away if the pirates know their stuff but the key point is that I now, as a non-aggressive player am a bit happier with the balance ad the tradeoff that now exists. So does that make the P'Rats feel any better? One more customer for you that you wouldn't otherwise have had. I'll try to avoid being even seen by you let alone being popped but when you do manage it I'll accept that consequence with a shrug and a whistle. Can't say fairer than that. Thumbs up to CCP for the increased range on sentries therefore - at a stroke it has the potential to stop player bunching and to push the action away from the quiet zones and into the interesting frontiers where we all know it should have been to start with. <<You call them Yulai and Aurohunen and P3 and and a hundred other systems - We used to call it Brit. Bridge - and it never made any sense then either matey! - Jack Blood>>
Adriana	Posted - 2004.03.08 07:43:00 - [89] I like the changes. What they mean is that if you want to gate camp now you will have to have a lot of time in to get your skills up high enough to get past the 150km range. By the time you can do that it probably isn't worth your time to camp gates in empire space anymore anyway. This will promote trade to lower sec space, and open up more research/factory slots in lower sec space since gates/stations are generally a lot safer to travel too/from now. It still won't stop suicide tactics, ie kestrals with an indi waiting to loot the kills, but it is a big improvement. Oh and for those complaining you had no warning, I can almost sympatize with you. Almost. Then I ask myself the question...how many times did you warn people you were waiting to gank them in 1.0 space? Space which is supposed to be safe? Pirating should be for less traveled areas. Pirating should be dangerous. Pirates should have to have mad skils and lead a hard life. There aren't enough penalties for pirates as of yet imoho. That said, it does have it's place. The best ores and what not are in 0.0 space. If you want the rewards, you need the risk since the game AI isn't up to snuff to provide the excitement that PvP combat does. Real PvPers won't complain about these changes, just griefers after easy kills. Real pirates will be hunting in 0.0 looking for non noob miners who are there trying to make some isk off rare ores. In short, the way Eve is set up, it takes so much time to get your skills up that you really have no chance against a skilled PvPer in the first few months, even if you are rigged for combat. So this is just another way of pushing the PvPers away from the noobs while they grow up some. Furthermore it's a good move overall financially. Most people don't like PvP. I posted in another thread about some other games. Look at shadowbane, incredible game, but griefing killed it, and many other games like it. Look at everquest, 3 pvp servers, over 40 non pvp servers. the pvp servers consistently have the lowest player count. Why? because while people might like PvP they want it to be consentual. Ganking noobs from a battleship isn't PvP, it's griefing. The one thing I do hope is that they do not remove the PvP aspect from Eve. I haven't engaged in it myself, and have no intentions of doing so for a while (not ready yet), but the only end game eve currently has is PvP. there are no "uber" mobs, no rare as all heck bling to show off to people so they can oooo and ahhh over your skills. There are player alliances fighting against player alliances. This will always be better than a computer AI since people are unpredictable (well, to a point). So for the gate gankers, no love for you at all. For the skilled players who hunt down their prey, I still don't like you, you are bad people, but I recognize your place in Eve, and definatly respect your skills...enough so that I'll try my best to run like crazy. Especially since a mining rig is in no way a match for even some of the combat rigged frigates, I mean what am I gonna do? reprocess your ship with my mining lasers> ....hmmm, theres a thought, if they do what they do to rock, maybe they should do something to a targeted ship as well? Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
Christopher Xen	Posted - 2004.03.08 12:21:00 - [90] Nope it ws no bug buddy. 95% of EVE couldnt hack it so they whined and cryed and the devs caved. Heaven forbid you should interrupt thier mininng and trading carebear sim
Borunel	Posted - 2004.03.08 12:59:00 - [91] Quote: Nope it ws no bug buddy. 95% of EVE couldnt hack it so they whined and cryed and the devs caved. Heaven forbid you should interrupt thier mininng and trading carebear sim Well if that is the reality of the situation then think about what you said for a moment would you? The proportion is 95% you say? Can you really believe that if CCP saw that 95% of the community was unhappy with the other 5% they should still support the vociferous minority over the utterly overwhelming majority that you indicate? That would be a bit stupid really don't you think? Whatever they intended as a game to start with, the company will only adhere to high ideals up to the point where they start alientating the people who produce upto 95% of their income. I personally don't for a second think it was anything like 95% who as you say 'can't hack it' but it is at least 50% of people who either don't accept the need for Player Piracy and don't want to even try to 'hack it' or for whom player pirates are a complete irrelevance to the way they play the game. So even at just greater than 50:50 would a profit making organisation want to alienate anyone? With the fact that pirates still have places they can pirate and people who don't want to be involved in that sort of thing have places to go where they don't have to be involved they should get away with annoying very few people permanently. Oh and by the way, 95:5 wouldn't make Player pirates a purer and morally superior group faced with a load of robotic cloned sheep to prey on who 'can't hack it' and don't know how to play the game properly. It makes pirates a vocal and fadingly small minority who have an unwarrantedly far greater effect on gameplay than their tiny numbers should allow and who want to go out of their way to upset and spoil the day of the majority of people who more than the pirates make the game possible - financially and mechanically. <<You call them Yulai and Aurohunen and P3 and and a hundred other systems - We used to call it Brit. Bridge - and it never made any sense then either matey! - Jack Blood>>
Br0ke	Posted - 2004.03.08 16:20:00 - [92] Wise words Borunel. Throughout history we have seen the minority dictate to the majority. Are laws not put in place because a few would harm the masses if left unchecked? Did not CCP add jettison timers on cargo cans because of m0o can spam lag? Did not CCP repeatedly increase the security of empire spaces due to the few that would grief within it's borders? This list could go on as many changes to this universe have been the result of a very few pilots that would harm the masses. Oddly, it is my mission to unburden citizens of material possessions and I do not feel hampered in any way by these changes. ------ Follow the Left Hand Path
Tenacha Khan	Posted - 2004.03.08 20:39:00 - [93] Quote: I like the changes. What they mean is that if you want to gate camp now you will have to have a lot of time in to get your skills up high enough to get past the 150km range. By the time you can do that it probably isn't worth your time to camp gates in empire space anymore anyway Totally untrue, it takes no more skills as in the skills you buy, just a different setup, as I have said earlier. It actually makes pirates camp totally risk free. I used to camp anywhere from 70-120km from the gate to stop bounty hunters warping right on top of me and spamming me with missiles. To get the extra 30km to bring it to 150km only takes a mod that costs less than 2mil and are really easy to find. What ccp have done is nerf the bounty hunters, Im sure any1 with half a brain can see that. Alot harder now to pinpoint a pirate, takes more time for a frig to mwd to be able to warpscramble. CCP has just induced an even more severe case of carebear pirating (gotta love that term) Im a pirate, but I dont want it easy, I play eve for the challenge and excitement. Bounty hunters made camping fun and exciting.
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.08 20:49:00 - [94] The majority of the gate campers are nothing more than pvp noobs. And let's be honest, how many pirate hunters are actually active? How many of those victims actually fought back before? However, I still don't see how this stops tanking, so my first idea of max range possible and insta kill still stands like a house :p ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Jacques Sparrow	Posted - 2004.03.09 00:54:00 - [95] Quote: I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp. Good riddens then. The game is better without the likes of you. Has anyone ever calculated the percentage of systems outside of Empire Space compared the the ones in Empire Space??? PVP players have about 90% of the systems in Eve to their free reign and do nothing but whine cause they can't dominate 1.0 to 0.0 and they'll never be satisfied until their ***** bin Laden selves are given complete access without penalty or risk involved. I PVP in 0.4 through 0.0 and I'm not whining at all. There are enuff carebears venturing below 0.4, so just find a different spot to gate camp. Enuff said, and in plain English too.
Spook Goodman	Posted - 2004.03.09 02:11:00 - [96] From what i can remeber, the range incress had been mention in the updates section of eve insider something all players can view, it was either under in development or planned its not there now however so i can't prove it. However it never mentioned if or when. just something you will have to live with for now. everytime you start the client to agree with the terms of use in which its says they can change what they want when they want and that the games experinace my change while you are playing it. last time i was out in 0.0 space i saw plenty of people mining in belts. plus stations out there don't have sentry guns just capture it with a couple mates and confisvate the contents of the hangers...
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.09 06:41:00 - [97] Quote: From what i can remeber, the range incress had been mention in the updates section of eve insider something all players can view, it was either under in development or planned its not there now however so i can't prove it. However it never mentioned if or when. just something you will have to live with for now. everytime you start the client to agree with the terms of use in which its says they can change what they want when they want and that the games experinace my change while you are playing it. last time i was out in 0.0 space i saw plenty of people mining in belts. plus stations out there don't have sentry guns just capture it with a couple mates and confisvate the contents of the hangers... Can anyone besides me spot the things that make it rather obviously this person has never flown a ship outside empire space? Hint No, it's not the general furriness of attempting to justify gross negligence in not communicating a change of this nature. Extra Hint No, it's not the intentionally misleading nature about it being in the updates section, as anyone with eyes can see the time gap between March 3rd, 2004 and September 8th, 2003 (nevermind I actually visit the update section semi-regularly in vain hope). Extra Bonus Hint It has to do with capturable stations... I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Shaelin Corpius	Posted - 2004.03.09 08:20:00 - [98] Kinda sux for us campfire bucket brigades as well. Gonna have to do a little adapting. Gonna have to take it to da belts.
DarkStar251	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:17:00 - [99] PvP is when you have an even fight. A battleship versus a battleship, or 2v2. A corp war maybe? Sitting by a gete for 8 hrs a day, with 3/4 Battleships, killing shuttles/frigs/cruisers is NOT PvP, it is target practice. I cant say I'm sad to see it nerfed, a bit. I'd LOVE to partake in a Corp war, where it was even with losses on both sides, but being camped into a system, after kiddies destroy your ship, then wait at every gate to kill your pod (there is no BENIFIT to them in killing your pod, they are just griefers that want to **** you off) is not PvP, and it is no loss to the game if all the players that do this quit, imho
Kynoch	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:24:00 - [100] Quote: Quote: Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base! Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup? Exactly, I saw the news about the sentry guns right when I logged into the client...its also in the patch notes. I cant believe the whining fron the noob hunters. Those of you complaining want PVP..come to Delve, you will get all you want and the adversaries will be more capable.
Miss Take	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:39:00 - [101] Quote: Quote: Quote: Gate camping aside, I just got blasted by a station gun at 90km. Why were we not told! An incredibly bad move not informing the player base! Not told? Was this not in the news that we all see at startup? Exactly, I saw the news about the sentry guns right when I logged into the client...its also in the patch notes. I cant believe the whining fron the noob hunters. Those of you complaining want PVP..come to Delve, you will get all you want and the adversaries will be more capable. The sentry guns were changed b4 the news was distributed on the load up news when u log on. Not everyone reads the forums, and why should they when there is a news bulletin when u log on??? Oh yeah, they changed the sentries and waited some time b4 informing the player base.
Lord Sidious	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:26:00 - [102] Edited by: Lord Sidious on 09/03/2004 22:31:40 Quote: Quote: I'm not a pirate, but i have to agree with them that the range increase is a bit draconian. A warning would have been fair Umm that would be just like the warning the gate camping griefers give you before you jump into their trap Now all the people making an easy living ganking n00bs at gates will have to actually learn PvP - and you think they need a Warning??! On the shelves in the store maybe ... *Danger* This game (now) requires skill Just a bunch of PvP who are ticked that they lost there cattle to slaughter. Quit your crying and if you want to look for someone to blame for this blame those who pulled the 100 or so kills in Yulia or those who kill noobs at gates who are just staring out. CCP is just reacting to a growing problem. Those who exploit the game cause change. If you don't like it tuff luck. Get some skills and pick on those who realy are ready for PvP. Life is what you make of it just don't get in my way.
Clipped Wings	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:53:00 - [103] Quote: PC Pirates 1) Pirates can't say their opinions 2) Pirates can't write petitions 3) Pirates can't grid exploit 1) You just disproved that, supposing you actually live up to being a pirate. 2) Sure they can, and I guess even a lot of them gets read. But the average (with exceptions, naturally!) gate-ganker appears to be too fond of the caps lock key and exclamation marks. Dunno why, but that might lower the patience of whomever's reading petitions. 3) Nobody should be able to. I still think I remember some pirates exploiting a certain grid bug in Yulai, some time ago...? And please elaborate, why are you ranting about pirates not being able to grid exploit? Nobody should be able to, anyway. It's not like it's an intended feature AFAIK, so stop bemoaning things you should never have had access to? Quote: Carebears Gotta love the fact that you define all that oppose your views as carebears. That's really mature and well-thought out. Quote: 1) Carebears can rant and troll their whining unlimited As opposed to the poor, hapless pirates you apparantly believe your represent? Quote: 2) Carebears can write twentysix thousand friviolus petitions and CCP caves in Frivolous to the extent of "I've been playing this game for 3 days, I flew in through Yulai and was dead when my screen came up...What's happening?" and the likes? Yeah, gotta agree with you, those newbies don't have any place in EVE, heaven forbid the player base be extended further! Heaven forbid that any veterans have ever been a newbie themself! o_O Quote: 3) Carebears can mine arkonor in industrials AFAIK, Arkonor is only found in 0.0 space, correct? Unless I am grossly mistaken, 0.0 space has - gasp - no sentry guns! No Concorde! OMG! ...But, disposing of sarcasm: Are you done whining yet? I mean, it more or less seems like pirate should invite miners out to 0.0 space, and just wait until the miners have filled their holds and are returning...Then shooting them down and grabbing the minerals. Heavens forbid any self-respecting pirate do mining themselves. Disclaimer: There are a fair deal of pirates I do respect, but IMO, Gate-killing has never been PvP. It's target practice, nothing more. Respect to those actively seeking out victims, instead of hanging out at the local Wal-mart jumpgate, waiting for prey... -Clipped Wings of LFC "I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man." ~William Hazlitt
Jacques Sparrow	Posted - 2004.03.10 02:01:00 - [104] Quote: Edited by: Lord Sidious on 09/03/2004 22:31:40 Quote: Quote: Now all the people making an easy living ganking n00bs at gates will have to actually learn PvP - and you think they need a Warning??! On the shelves in the store maybe ... *Danger* This game (now) requires skill Just a bunch of PvP who are ticked that they lost there cattle to slaughter. Quit your crying and if you want to look for someone to blame for this blame those who pulled the 100 or so kills in Yulia or those who kill noobs at gates who are just staring out. CCP is just reacting to a growing problem. Those who exploit the game cause change. If you don't like it tuff luck. Get some skills and pick on those who realy are ready for PvP. I agree, my fellow pirte m8's who are not true PVP will have to learn what REAL PvP skills instead of relying on noobs to stumble in their path. Being a pirate takes skill, tact, and planning, sometimes it will take days to plan ahead. The game will fail to bring in fresh meat if we continue to dishearten noobs & not provide them time to become opponents and thus real PvP material. Best advice, find an opponent in 0.0 w/ a BS or Cruiser and test your PvP skills, otherwise you may never know where your true weakness are. Noobs can show us nothing except how good we can target & shoot. Like hunting animals in the field, if kill a rabbit while sitting in your rocking chair then call yourself a man, that's pathetic. Why not go after a 500 pound Black Bear or 1300 pound male bull Moose ...something that can atleast fight back and give you an adrenalin rush. Then you can brag about the kill and everyone will admire talent and skill.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.10 06:09:00 - [105] El Gorri¾n, you've got all the credibility on the subject of piracy that a carebear alt created to make pirates look bad deserves. Now hush I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
D'eath's Head	Posted - 2004.03.14 00:17:00 - [106] Clarification of security status. System Security status and Rules of Engagement 0.0 anything goes (there is an exception, these are named 0.0 systems, which act a like 0.1 (you loose security status and sentrys shoot you, example = Hophib) 0.1-0.4 you can attack anywhere, but if in range of the sentry guns, they will shoot you, you will also loose security status. 0.5-1.0 you can attack hostile npcs anywhere, and hostile players only Personal Security status and Rules of Engagements +10.0 - -1.9 you can go anywhere -2.0 - -2.4 you can go to 0.9 - 0.0 -2.5 - -2.9 you can go to 0.8 - 0.0 -3.0 - -3.4 you can go to 0.7 - 0.0 -3.5 - -3.9 you can go to 0.6 - 0.0 -4.0 - -4.4 you can go to 0.5 - 0.0 -4.5 - -4.9 you can go to 0.4 - 0.0 -5.0 - -10.0 you can go to 0.4 - 0.0 but people can attack you anywhere with out loosing security status or the sentry guns/CONCORD responding Personal Security Status Changes Improving security status is done by hunting NPC pirates. Decreasing is done by attacking players. It only changes once every 20 (ish) minutes, by the biggest change (i.e. the biggest security status loss during that time or the biggest gain during that time) If you have shot something that has made the sentrys shoot you (or warn you, when warned they will shoot you when you enter their range), you must stay out of sentry sight (so you cannot see their icons i.e. out of that grid) for a full 20 minutes, without entering the same grid as a sentry for the whole time, otherwise the sentrys will shoot you when they see you again. Sentrys have a range of 150km. Note: Shooting convoys inside of sentry range will no longer trigger a sentry response or a CONCORD response, however you will also take a standing drop from the NPC corporation that the convoy belonged to. At -5.0 with the NPC corporation, their NPC ships and sentry guns will engage you. If you make a hostile action against a player you may not dock or jump for 2 minutes, this applys to 0.0 space. This also applies then returning fire on someone who has shot you. Bracketting Red = low security status, do not shoot unless you have made sure that the person has -5.0 Blue = Gang member, if someone shoots at a gang member, you may help that gang member attack the aggressor. White = Neutral Green = Corp member Orange = Corp war (you may shoot this person anywhere, but be careful of splash damage to players/sentries/stations, which will trigger sentry and CONCORD responce) there ya go, it came from the forums, reserch done. and i already knew the guns range were changed, cause i looked it up... take a bit of time an look for things yourself intsted of crying an winning about it here, it accomplishes nothing to waaa waaa waaa here about it, you still lost your ship, tooooo baaad sooooo saaad, cry me a river, then bottle it, maybe you'll get somthing for it... --------------------------------------------- well nice to see you. oops did i just say that to a corps? ahh men they die so easy. --------------------------------------------- TOOOO BAAAAD SOOOOO SAAAAD, sucks to be you, cry me a river, bottle it, you may get somthing for it...
Jaris Starforge	Posted - 2004.03.14 03:49:00 - [107] first id like to point out the 150km range was added to protect newbs and anyone else who exited or entered a station in 0.0 as i one seen someone in a tempest canp a newbie station happilly podding all who warped in or left the station while his friend in an indy lapped all the loot obviously this was not on also there is another reason for sector ratings 1.0-0.8 this is for newbs who have just startes hence the reson why you cant kill pc ships and the rats are very weak 0.7-0.5 this is for the more experienced noob 0.4 -0.1 this is for the non newb [but not quite experienced player] if you have a upper end frigate or a cruiser you can fing some better training here for using your weons or you can mine more valuable ore also you can start to pvp but if you fell insicure you can still find safty in a station or at a gate 0.0 this is for the experienced players high end cruisers and batleships only here you must be on your toes and be ready to kill and be killed [only come here when you are at abut 1 million skillpoints], but also expect the rewards for sucess to be greater too as is the risks
dalman	Posted - 2004.03.14 04:04:00 - [108] Quote: WHY HAVE THE GATE GUNS RANGE BEEN INCREASED? TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE DAMN CAREBEAR PIRATES! Com'on, WTF? There's nothing scrambling you and the sentries hardly deal any damage at all. If you can't stand some sentry guns you should be mining veldspar in a 0.9 system. But keep whining lamers. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.14 07:10:00 - [109] Quote: Quote: WHY HAVE THE GATE GUNS RANGE BEEN INCREASED? TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR THE DAMN CAREBEAR PIRATES! Com'on, WTF? There's nothing scrambling you and the sentries hardly deal any damage at all. If you can't stand some sentry guns you should be mining veldspar in a 0.9 system. But keep whining lamers. And when you figure out why it does nothing of the sort but has worse effects across the rest of the game, I might credit you with an IQ higher than the number of teeth you show when you open your yap. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.14 10:41:00 - [110] People who think the increased sentry range doesn't make it harder for gatecampers shouldn't be speaking of intelligence either. Moreover, your "worse effects across the rest of the game" is highly overrated. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Kinnison	Posted - 2004.03.14 12:52:00 - [111] Quote: I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp. Bye jamze. Don't slam the door on your way out. What a shame - another griefer out of the game.
Jacques Sparrow	Posted - 2004.03.14 23:04:00 - [112] Too many Carebear noobs on this post, c''mon pls...on with the show. Don't waste your time trying to kill me - I routinely kill myself..
Mirimon	Posted - 2004.03.15 20:03:00 - [113] CCP really didn't think this one out properly...If increasing the sentry guns range from 50 to 150 is their reaction to the Zombie inccident...what the hell were they thinking! First of all, if the guy in Zombie that was being tanked was in range of the sentry guns and getting hit by them anyway...then how does increasing their range change anything!?...seriously, they really didn't think this one through. They were too shocked and panicked. If they REALLY wanted to fix the problem, the way it should have been, with actual thinking and programing, they could have changed it so Concord BS's can decimate a player ship within seconds, regardles of what shield tanking abilities it has. Or, another logical way they could have fixed this problem, without carebearing it, would have been so the Concord Battlships and/or sentry guns would realize what support ships were helping the tanking BS and fire upon those too...not that hard! Now what they did was a quick fix that really ruined a lot of aspects, and needs to be fixed...asap. "Then I guess I have no choice...but to kill you all."
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.15 22:57:00 - [114] That's why I rooted for max firing range and insta kill shots :p That would remove both gatecampers and tankers for good. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.16 10:23:00 - [115] Edited by: McWatt on 16/03/2004 10:24:04 Quote: That's why I rooted for max firing range and insta kill shots :p That would remove both gatecampers and tankers for good. great idee. 90% of the ppl killed by concord are "innocent" already. in a battleship you ve got a chance to escape the all to popular judical error now and then. it s just another totally stupid solution. concord should respond in a flexible way, this means damage should be linked to target type, giving frigs and cruisers a similar chance of survival.
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.16 12:00:00 - [116] Quote: Edited by: McWatt on 16/03/2004 10:24:04 Quote: That's why I rooted for max firing range and insta kill shots :p That would remove both gatecampers and tankers for good. great idee. 90% of the ppl killed by concord are "innocent" already. in a battleship you ve got a chance to escape the all to popular judical error now and then. it s just another totally stupid solution. concord should respond in a flexible way, this means damage should be linked to target type, giving frigs and cruisers a similar chance of survival. Talk about dumb ideas, that does NOTHING at all against tankers. Now, my idea solves the problem, like I mentioned. As for the "90% are innocent", you mean concord starts shooting at them while they did nothing? I find that hrd to believe, why don't you silly people back up your talk with some arguments for a change. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.03.16 18:28:00 - [117] Quote: As for the "90% are innocent", you mean concord starts shooting at them while they did nothing? I find that hrd to believe, why don't you silly people back up your talk with some arguments for a change. No, CONCORD does not randomly shoot at people who did nothing BUT lots of people get caught out by them anyway. Anecdotal Evidence: - Take people who target lock ships in the hopes the targeted ship shoots back? People forget where they are often enough that there is a fair number of greifers out there that do this for kicks. - Hauler getting Kestrel-raped near a gate/sentry-gun pops a smarbomb to fend off the missiles and tags a gun. Bye-bye hauler. - Occasionally people do by accident press the wrong button. Try to never keep your afterburners on teh same F-key as a smartbomb. You screw-up pressing the ALT key to engage ABs and you may well setoff the sbomb. If someone is near you and you hit them bye-bye once again. - You are engaged ina corp war and legitimately attacking your enemy in hi-sec space (as is allowed by the rules). Either the enemy is exploiting by having non-corp members get in the middle to get hit or some unwary guy stumbles in or a missile goes wide and tags the wrong thing. In comes CONCORD to wipe the floor with you. - This is one a mate of mine did. Two days after getting his Tempest he was guarding a miner in 0.6 space. The Tempest was indeed overkill for this but he worked hard for it and was enjoying flying it and trying it out and he owed the miner a favor. NPC rats show and for fun he pops a torp at one of them. By the time the torp closed the distance the rat had gotten next to the miner. The torp hit the miner with splash damage. Pure accident, he did it to a friend, the firend didn't care at all yet in comes CONCORD and vaporises a 2-day old Tempest for a minor goof. There are many such stories. Sadly without CONCORD the gankfest would be even more horrid I think so we are stuck with the lesser of two bad options.
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.16 22:42:00 - [118] Edited by: Dekar on 16/03/2004 22:43:27 People who keep doing those silly mistakes will learn it the hard way to be more careful around CONCORD. That war thing is somewhat crappy though. However, forces fighting each other during war won't likely have a chance to escape even IF Concord shows up without insta kills. Regardless, stupidity shouldn't be an excuse not to implement changes that stop pathetic pvp mice. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Lysender	Posted - 2004.03.17 00:09:00 - [119] LMAO. I love these kinds of posts. I hope they increase the gate guns to 200km and have there damage Tripled. Maybe add some Cruise missles to the turrents to boot. What part of you're not welcome don't you guys understand? LMAO! You guys are just to funny.
Steel Rage	Posted - 2004.03.17 12:36:00 - [120] Well the thing is if you take something away you should give something back. I would let the pirates pirate NPC convoys trying to expand empire space .
Steel Rage	Posted - 2004.03.17 12:37:00 - [121] Well the thing is if you take something away you should give something back. I would let the pirates pirate NPC convoys trying to expand empire space .
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.17 14:18:00 - [122] Edited by: McWatt on 17/03/2004 14:24:03 Quote: Talk about dumb ideas, that does NOTHING at all against tankers. Now, my idea solves the problem, like I mentioned. As for the "90% are innocent", you mean concord starts shooting at them while they did nothing? I find that hrd to believe, why don't you silly people back up your talk with some arguments for a change. why not simply think for a second before posting and calling names? yes, my initial post included a way to handle tankers, i called it "flexible response", you decided to ignore it. concord should always respond in a way that is corresponding to the threat post by the attacker. yes, a ship that can tank sentry guns is more dangerous than one that can t, so concord should bring in some back up as well. i didn t back up my claim about concord killing mainly innocents because i thought that everyone knew already. looks like i was wrong. there are thousands of things that can go wrong, even for an experienced pilot. this has something to do with the rather unclear rules of engagement concord is using. (check a rather famous pirates post about concord trying to kill his battleship after having ignored his frigate beforehand, or this post) your second post is even more weird: it s ok that concord kills stupid ppl, but it s not if pirates do? sorry, but that makes no sense at all!
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.17 16:06:00 - [123] Quote: why not simply think for a second before posting and calling names? Unfortunately for you, those 2 are practically unrelated. I asked for something to back up your argument, no such thing was found in the post. Quote: yes, my initial post included a way to handle tankers, i called it "flexible response", you decided to ignore it. Not sure what you define as "initial post" but I can't recall ever going through this subject with you where you referred back to whatever post you mean, so it's hardly ignoring it. Quote: concord should always respond in a way that is corresponding to the threat post by the attacker. yes, a ship that can tank sentry guns is more dangerous than one that can t, so concord should bring in some back up as well. This has as much depth as.....not saying anything. How does this stop tankers? How does this explain ANYTHING? Quote: i didn t back up my claim about concord killing mainly innocents because i thought that everyone knew already. looks like i was wrong. Nothing relevant comes to mind. Quote: there are thousands of things that can go wrong, even for an experienced pilot. this has something to do with the rather unclear rules of engagement concord is using. (check a rather famous pirates post about concord trying to kill his battleship after having ignored his frigate beforehand, or this post) You people keep missing the big picture. We got 1 random guy whining about some weird bug and that should somehow stop a change that can aid the gameplay for 8-9k people. Fcking genius. Oh wait no, that's just dumb. Quote: your second post is even more weird: it s ok that concord kills stupid ppl, but it s not if pirates do? sorry, but that makes no sense at all! That all depends on the definition of stupidity. Is jumping through gates and getting hit by tanked BS stupidity? Is attacking nearby concord and alarming them stupidity? People who can't differentiate shouldn't even be in this part of the discussion. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
0TheVirtu0	Posted - 2004.03.17 22:14:00 - [124] Alright, I've read a few pages of this topic and I've understood the general feeling towards this. Although I am new to EvE, I have been playing another space MMO for about a year and a half now. Here's my opinion on this. Pirates: I see pirates as a more advanced career to pursue, not something for complete newbies to just instantly pursue. You need to know your way around the game, how to be stealthy, how to swoop in and swoop out without getting fried. IT IS NOT ABOUT CHASING ROOKIE SHIPS AND GATE CAMPING. Most of you pirates from my standpoint seem to want to easily be able to kill anything that moves. This is just completely incorrect, I see that pirates should be required to stick together and overwhelm the enemy to defeat them, not sit 80km from the gate and fire from long range. I say this to all of you pirates that are doing nothing but whining out there. I'm sorry to hear that you're losing an easy and loserific way to gain an advantage over the non-pirate players, get over it. So, if you want to overwhelm the gates to overwhelm the enemy there, stop playing lone ranger and work together, otherwise, shut up and stop whining like 13-year old girls having a bad hair day.
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.18 09:07:00 - [125] Edited by: McWatt on 18/03/2004 09:11:47 Quote: Quote: Edited by: McWatt on 16/03/2004 10:24:04 Quote: That's why I rooted for max firing range and insta kill shots :p That would remove both gatecampers and tankers for good. great idee. 90% of the ppl killed by concord are "innocent" already. in a battleship you ve got a chance to escape the all to popular judical error now and then. it s just another totally stupid solution. concord should respond in a flexible way, this means damage should be linked to target type, giving frigs and cruisers a similar chance of survival. Talk about dumb ideas, that does NOTHING at all against tankers. Now, my idea solves the problem, like I mentioned. As for the "90% are innocent", you mean concord starts shooting at them while they did nothing? I find that hrd to believe, why don't you silly people back up your talk with some arguments for a change. here s where our discussion started, you might want to reread your own words, or perhaps even mine. as flexible police response is the solution of the problem (in complete opposition to raising sentry gun ranges or insta kills, btw) and everyone with an active brain knows, i m not going into deeper discussion with someone who doesn t agree on this (for obvious reasons). just a few comments on your last post, for pure fun: * if you reread, you might have notice that you ignored my solution. * you can t see how more and stronger police ships showing up will stop "tankers"? hm. * if you d ever mounted anything but a mining laser or even decided to use it, "accident with concord" would bring something to your mind. * big picture IS that more ppl have accidents with concord (i was giving 2 examples, btw, which rules out that "We got 1 random guy whining about some weird bug"), while concord apparently isn t fullfilling it s job to protect ppl the way they are intended to (yulay incident). k, and last but not least, this: Quote: Quote: your second post is even more weird: it s ok that concord kills stupid ppl, but it s not if pirates do? sorry, but that makes no sense at all! That all depends on the definition of stupidity. Is jumping through gates and getting hit by tanked BS stupidity? Is attacking nearby concord and alarming them stupidity? People who can't differentiate shouldn't even be in this part of the discussion. jumping into a big blop of pod kills is stupid. jumping through a hot spot without escort is stupid. not knowing that concord will attack you in a frigate but will in a battleship is not stupid. not knowing that you need to let concord kill you after you commited a crime, even if they hardly manage to do so, is not stupid. not knowing that you musn t attack the guy with the big red wanted sticker, who has targeted you and is warp scrambling "you" while you are taking hits from his buddy with a passive is not stupid. differentiated enough, is it?
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.18 12:20:00 - [126] Edited by: Dekar on 18/03/2004 12:25:37 Note to self: previewing helps a lot... Quote: here s where our discussion started, you might want to reread your own words, or perhaps even mine. I did and still read nothing of intelligence. The conclusion will be the same no matter how many times I'll read it. Quote: as flexible police response is the solution of the problem (in complete opposition to raising sentry gun ranges or insta kills, btw) and everyone with an active brain knows, i m not going into deeper discussion with someone who doesn t agree on this (for obvious reasons). Anyone who can't see that raising sentry gun ranges and insta kills will solve the problem with tankers and gatecampers is brain-dead. Are there better solutions? Perhaps. But does this one work? Ehm..hell yes? Quote: * if you reread, you might have notice that you ignored my solution. Really? How did I 'ignore' your solution? You obviously don't have the slightest clue as to what the WORD even MEANS. I did everything BUT ignore your "solution". However, to call "flexible police" a "solution" is like me saying "CCP need to think things through". Quote: * you can t see how more and stronger police ships showing up will stop "tankers"? hm. Frankly, no. How does that stop tankers? How are tankers defined by Concord? All they do is call in more people or pause till Concord leaves, and they start all over again. There are hundreds of question marks to your solution and you think calling it "flexible police" will solve anything. You are a clown. Quote: * if you d ever mounted anything but a mining laser or even decided to use it, "accident with concord" would bring something to your mind. The only thing that comes to mind is to not shoot/fight around concord or get a war. Now is that so hard for you? If so, maybe you shouldn't be picking up the pvp style in the first place? Quote: * big picture IS that more ppl have accidents with concord (i was giving 2 examples, btw, which rules out that "We got 1 random guy whining about some weird bug"), while concord apparently isn t fullfilling it s job to protect ppl the way they are intended to (yulay incident). And it still won't with your half assed remarks that contribute nothing. Quote: jumping into a big blop of pod kills is stupid. And we all know that there are only campers and tankers in systems with big blops of pod kills. Obviously, as the ability to move around in systems is new to them. In fact, moving around? What in the world is that? Quote: jumping through a hot spot without escort is stupid. And we all know that every player has escorts available. Not to forget the fact that escorts can apparently kill tankers and ambushing gatecampers. Quote: not knowing that concord will attack you in a frigate but will in a battleship is not stupid. How many times has that happened really? And the person in question was a low sec rate so is that really worrisome? Quote: not knowing that you need to let concord kill you after you commited a crime, even if they hardly manage to do so, is not stupid. Hence the improvement.... Quote: not knowing that you musn t attack the guy with the big red wanted sticker, who has targeted you and is warp scrambling "you" while you are taking hits from his buddy with a passive is not stupid. 1. Actually, that is a bit dumb. 2. What dif does that make? You're a goner regardless of any changes. Quote: differentiated enough, is it? Stupidly, yes. ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Isang Relow	Posted - 2004.03.18 13:42:00 - [127] yawns We still talking about this?
Bellicose	Posted - 2004.03.18 22:31:00 - [128] Quote: yawns We still talking about this? i guess we are.... Who needs a shovel when you have a nice big cannon? KittenArmy capn' crimson
McWatt	Posted - 2004.03.19 07:46:00 - [129] Quote: Of those who say nothing, few are silent. Thomas Neill
Dekar	Posted - 2004.03.19 08:56:00 - [130] Yeh that's a vulnerability, but the quote is just too nice to skip it :p Besides, now "they" got something to pick on :p ------------------------------------------------- Lying Scumbag
Luke Skiwalker	Posted - 2004.03.19 12:07:00 - [131] I think thats its inevitable that CCP would increase the sentry gun range. A lot of pirate campers were making themselves feel big by ganking noobs. This happened to me, its understandable that new players will get annoyed when someone in a battleship kills them for no reason. A lot of noobs will do agent missions that take them into low security space ,like I did - and being new players will not understand the risks. CCP is after all running a business and will not want to alienate potential players - that is obvious to me. It the same logic behind the changes with secure containers in high security space - again new players trying to mine in 0.9 space and finding the same dumb corporation mining the same belt clean each day. Unfortunately some of the gate campers who post to this forum dont understand the basics - CCP is running a multiplayer game - they of course want to maximise profits - not ruin it for new players by stopping them running agent missions or mining. how much money is made by ganking newbs anyway?
Sebiestor Jackal	Posted - 2004.03.19 12:50:00 - [132] theres now 8 sentry guns at some gates now now u have something to complain about ------------------------------------------------ Free My People All Amarrians MUST DIE!!
Kojee	Posted - 2004.03.19 14:41:00 - [133] If you guys haven't noticed yet, MMORPG's are much like society...you simply can't please everyone. PvPers are at a small loss, but definately nothing they cant cope with. Carebears/miners/whatever have simply gained the edge they've needed all along. IMO, only systems 5.0 and over should have sentries that protect the players, because they are the only systems that have police forces to do this. Systems that are from .1 to .4 should have sentries, but only protect the gates. 0.0 systems should have no sentries whatsoever. This game, as I understand it, is supposed to have a moderate risk of being shot down when venturing out of empire space, and with every patch I'm seeing low sec space become safer and safer. .4 and lower was made for the non-n00bs. If they decide to take the risk, its their problem. On a side-note, when is 0.0 going to be hard to mine in, or even BE in, for that matter?
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.21 22:39:00 - [134] Edited by: S3VYN on 21/03/2004 22:40:08 As soon as the people who whine on posts like this do what they should have done all along and move into 0.0 space instead of trying to gank n00bs in empire space. The thing is, most of those who come here to whine about things like sentries are too scared to go to 0.0 because the REAL PvP'ers hang there and these kiddies can't cut it. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
S3VYN	Posted - 2004.03.24 15:13:00 - [135] I really wish people would quit using the term "mining simulator" and try to think up something original. I'm just about sick AND TIRED of people who say they want to fight but are too much of a n00b to do so in 0.0 space. The short of it is, either you're good enough to fight or you're not. CCP making it easier for you to pick on new players in empire space is NOT the solution. If you want to head into 0.0 space there are PLENTY of opportunities to fight. The whole "mining simulator" term was coined by a bitter n00b and is continued to be used by the same personality type. It's lame so quit using it. ------------------------------------- // The views expressed by this poster are not the views of the poster's corporation, alliance, planet or television network... but they should be.
Inconstant Moon	Posted - 2004.03.25 02:30:00 - [136] Quote: Note: Shooting convoys inside of sentry range will no longer trigger a sentry response or a CONCORD response sadly incorrect. sentry gun at 100km destroyed my ship after i fired on a convoy. most convoys warp out before 150km. it appears this aspect of gameplay has become severely limited.
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.03.25 13:06:00 - [137] Quote: I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp. Can I get your stuff - if there is any? ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Morazog	Posted - 2004.03.25 13:08:00 - [138] Quote: its sad to say that this game is turning into a mining simulation OMG ... 63.567th repetition of this phrase ... did "you" mine more than 1 day in your life?
Adriana	Posted - 2004.03.26 10:03:00 - [139] Do any of the "real" pirates care about this? I know the griefers do. They don't have the skills to anything but gank indies at the gates of high sec space, but I can't imagine any real pirates getting but so upset about this. These changes are designed to cut down te volume of griefing. Griefing = bad for business. People getting constantly griefed, get fed up and quit. This means CCP stops getting their money. If too much money stops comming in, Eve dies. This is a fantastic game. I am very glad I decided to try it out, and plan on staying around a while. If I have to worry about griefers in every little high sec system I jump in to, I will eventually just get sick of it and quit. Most people think like I do about this. PvP games are less popular than non PvP games. The problem with Eve is that it needs PvP. As long as the griefers find ways around the rules, or at the the "spirit" of the rules, then CCP will have to crank it up another notch to protect their incomming flow of capital. If this gets too out of hand, they may eventually ban PvP all together, or so severely limit it it won't be worth bothering with. I don't think that would be good for Eve overall. In short, these changes are good because they target a certain type of play. Grief Play. Griefers = bad for business. As long as CCP can continue to make it harder to grief, while protecting consentual PvP (if you went to a 0.0 system to mine, you consented to PvP btw), this game will continue to grow. It's simply too good a game not to. You just have to get rid of the few bad apples. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon Bonaparte
vanBuskirk	Posted - 2004.03.27 08:40:00 - [140] Quote: Quote: Note: Shooting convoys inside of sentry range will no longer trigger a sentry response or a CONCORD response sadly incorrect. sentry gun at 100km destroyed my ship after i fired on a convoy. most convoys warp out before 150km. it appears this aspect of gameplay has become severely limited. Blame the gatecampers, not ccp. Of course, the gatecampers don't give a damn - just look at all the pretty explosions! ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent". ----------------------------------------------
vanBuskirk	Posted - 2004.03.27 08:45:00 - [141] Quote: I attempted to do a spot of gate camping tonight. And to my shock and horror i was engaged by sentry guns. I was at least 65k from the nearest gun. I hope this is only a bug. In case it is I have filed a bug report. If it is by design then I will have to say adios gring to ccp. What a shame. Don't slam the door on your way out. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent". ----------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.27 11:42:00 - [142] is this treadh still alive Yawn oh well - i donr care, got my optimal range to 166km whit 6 1400mms -------------------------------------------
Kinnison	Posted - 2004.03.27 12:02:00 - [143] Quote: is this treadh still alive Yawn oh well - i donr care, got my optimal range to 166km whit 6 1400mms How nice for you. Now you can carry on making isk with no skill and no risk, just like "pirates" are always accusing miners of doing. And please learn to spell? Of course, if English isn't your native language, for the second comment I apologise.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.03.28 10:56:00 - [144] Quote: Quote: is this treadh still alive Yawn oh well - i donr care, got my optimal range to 166km whit 6 1400mms How nice for you. Now you can carry on making isk with no skill and no risk, just like "pirates" are always accusing miners of doing. And please learn to spell? Of course, if English isn't your native language, for the second comment I apologise. i dont do it for isk - there isint realy any in it anyway i dor it so i can ruin some ones day - its realy wonderful feeling when u hear pod Cr4ck -------------------------------------------

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