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Learning skills DO suck

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Swift Wind 6rasshopper Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:39:00 - [31] Edited by: Swift Wind on 30/11/2007 14:45:13 Give me a break.... I started this game with LESS than 40k SP... That was less than 2 years ago, you new players already have it made... Anywhere, Anytime.
Kathryn Dougans B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:46:00 - [32] I could quote myself, but I'm not going to. New players have several things available to allow them to quickly and cheaply train relevant skills, enough to have fun and try things out to decide if EVE is something they want to stick with. If Eve is something they want to stick with, then they would have the patience to train learning skills. If it's not, then so what?
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:51:00 - [33] Learning skills are a bloody stupid time sink, and the jerks who say 'train adv. learnings to IV and then normal learnings to V before training anything' are saying 'pay for the game for a month, then start playing it', which is bloody damn stupid. Rifters!
Varshyll	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Nicholas Barker you've got it easy, you used to have to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could begin training the SOCT learning skills. My adv. learning skills are completed for about 18 months.... This is no whining thread, just a suggestion to improve the new players's experience.... and I hope this will increase the number of EVE subscrivers. Originally by: Swift Wind Edited by: Swift Wind on 30/11/2007 14:45:13 Give me a break.... I started this game with LESS than 40k SP... That was less than 2 years ago, you new players already have it made... Cry me a river.... (T-T) New players will never be able to fulfill the sp gap with a 2 year char. Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Nianda SeCann Sorry but I came to this game because of things like the learning skills, eve isn't WoW and most ppls are all the more happier for this. If I had wanted a game where i could be contending within a few months I would have gone to either WoW/LoTRO ( I,ve tryed them, and all the easier start-up means is that you'll reach the c#ap grind quicker). Other option open is to play Freelancer or X3 on easy. Eve was never meant to be easy to play and I hope that it stays this way. Meant more to me when I finaly jumpped into the ship I wanted i have been in this game a long time now and i have passed the 25mill sp a good time back now, and i still think that the learning skills is nothing but a killer for newer players. TRUST ME! wow players will not invade eve because you remove the learning skills you damn little game racial wow haters ;) :P but it will let a lot of people that could be a good diversity to the game join up and help the fun in game for all of us. <3
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Varshyll PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer. So you dont want anyone to disagree with you...thats not how it works. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:56:00 - [36] it's FINE as it is this char started 7 days ago. no outside help at all. they now have full +3's (ok, +1 char :D), 2 advanced learning skillbooks, 3% hardwirings, 10 million isk in the wallet, good named/tech 2 modules, a caracal, moa, osprey, a few frigates.... 7 days. a week, if you like. the OP must be trolling.
Maximillian Dragonard	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:00:00 - [37] Yet another thread on this topic?? Face facts, learning skills are here to stay. CCP isn't about to radically alter the game just to appease the "I want it now" crowd. This game is all about *choices* If you choose to *invest* the time in learning skills, you benefit long term. If you choose not to, you pay a price. Hmmm..... ya know, kinda like if you choose to continue your education in r/l you benefit, if not you pay a price.. These threads are really getting old
Jupiter Sun	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard Hmmm..... ya know, kinda like if you choose to continue your education in r/l you benefit, if not you pay a price.. that should be the other way round ;o)
Xavianum	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Cpt Branko Learning skills are a bloody stupid time sink, and the jerks who say 'train adv. learnings to IV and then normal learnings to V before training anything' are saying 'pay for the game for a month, then start playing it', which is bloody damn stupid. It's easy to say something like this, but a lot harder to back it up. I've been playing exactly one month (started 10/31) and I've actually been 'playing' it as you say, not just 'paying' for it. I've purchased 4/5 adv. learning skill books, though I've only used two of them so far. I've trained my learning skills, but I've also trained a large number of other skills. I trained some basic skills like navigation, engineering, electronics, salvaging, etc. that have helped me make money and better fit my ships. Eventually my learning skills will be complete (well, 4/5 basic and adv. except charisma) and then I will be able to train more advanced skills as I see fit. I will, as it turns out, be able to afford these skills, and also be able to afford the toys they allow me to use. I will be training battlecruisers soon, along with medium projectile weapons and when I do, guess what? I'll actually have enough isk to fully outfit the thing. And to be honest, I don't spend all that much time playing the game. I just started running level 2 missions (in my rifter, which works great by the way) and I feel I have the skills and the isk to jump into pvp very soon. Anyhow, my point is that to do all this took a bit of planning and a bit of actually playing the game. In between all of my learning skills I have trained many others skills. As many people will say, you have to find a good balance between training learning skills and other skills. If you can't do that, this game isn't for you. Just because you have to plan for the long-term doesn't mean you can't have fun in the short-term.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Xavianum lots of stuff You know that if you did train for learning skills for a week at start, and didn't trained it to 4/3 (I suppose) in three weeks with other skills, you would already be in your BC as we speak ? Well, properly flying them requires a bit more time anyway. More like months. -- random eve-related content --
Queen Killerz	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Swift Wind Edited by: Swift Wind on 30/11/2007 14:45:13 Give me a break.... I started this game with LESS than 40k SP... That was less than 2 years ago, you new players already have it made... LOL Yeah I remember that / before kali Patch LOL - in few days your over a million and ready to fight
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:43:00 - [42] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 30/11/2007 15:44:34 Originally by: Varshyll PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer. Then how about this, it was easy for me, and now it's even easier for them, so STFU. That work for you? Originally by: Varshyll Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. PROTIP: They improve your character's ability to learn. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:44:00 - [43] Fail Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Xavianum	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Xavianum lots of stuff You know that if you did train for learning skills for a week at start, and didn't trained it to 4/3 (I suppose) in three weeks with other skills, you would already be in your BC as we speak ? Well, properly flying them requires a bit more time anyway. More like months. Two whole weeks sooner? I don't really care, I still only need my rifter for the mission levels I'm running. Besides, I think you completely missed the whole point of my post.
shortattenionsp	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:48:00 - [45] People that train learning skills to 5 normal / 4 advanced before doing anything are peope who are training alts that already have main that they play. No one wants to spend the first month paying for the game without progressing, its a bad diea to suggest this as a requirement to new players, it will only put them off. The key is to get learning skills slowly over time as you require them, rather than in big chunks like an alt which you're not going to play for 6 months. Makes me chuckle when people say new players have it made though. Start and new character and see how you feel. Yes they have 800k starting skills, but 512k of that is in two lvl 5 skills, with many of the basics missing. New characters would be much better with a lot more level 3 / 4 skills spread out, but thats another post. Yes learning skills are a ****ter, but they're in the game and they're not gonna go away, so just get them as you feel you need them. Do the calculations to see how long they will take to pay off too. Personally i've avoided any lvl 5 learning skills, I'd much prefer to spend the training time on new skills I can enjoy, ie new modules or bonuses. When I reach the next plateau with my training i'll probably get them. Yup ni 6 months time i'll be losing sp i could have had if i'd spent time training learning skills. Its a game after all and not a second job, the point of playing is to have fun, so train your skills accordingly.
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.11.30 15:51:00 - [46] when the old ppl started out in 2003 there were no learning skills at all so suck it up and be happy that you are able to train them at all. or STFU and ask CCP to put in a blocker preventing new characters to train them for 2 years so it will be even.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:16:00 - [47] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 30/11/2007 16:16:35 Originally by: Xavianum Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Xavianum lots of stuff You know that if you did train for learning skills for a week at start, and didn't trained it to 4/3 (I suppose) in three weeks with other skills, you would already be in your BC as we speak ? Well, properly flying them requires a bit more time anyway. More like months. Two whole weeks sooner? I don't really care, I still only need my rifter for the mission levels I'm running. Besides, I think you completely missed the whole point of my post. Miss a point ? In your post ? I admit it. I didn't see any. All I saw is a pretty story of someone that is already conquered by the game and doesn't care about wasting time in the game. Learning skills : one of the game mechanics in eve where being smart (and not much brain is needed to see how beneficial learning skills are) actually hinders your fun. Especially when you hesitate between playing or not. Seeing that being smart waste your fun during the trial ? I can understand how people are repelled by this, especially in addition of all else that you need to learn when starting the game. Learning skills need to go. -- random eve-related content --
dimaggio Gallente XTS	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:17:00 - [48] common ive wrked hard and taken me over a yr to get my avatars where they are, lot of blood and Isk too. So i dnt want some noob to start and have any advantage over me as they already do, if they got any more of an advantage, id have to become an evil noob hunter more than i am already. So keep it as it is.
Baron Erique Gallente Schrodinger's Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:26:00 - [49] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. Did you ever think that new players might not want or appreciate said help? I don't, and I've seen plenty of newbies in other threads who don't either. Originally by: Varshyll CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the *. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. Except the ability to train other skills faster! Originally by:** Varshyll It's already pretty hard to start with this game... And that is the very reason I want to play this game. I WANT a challenge. I don't mind putting a little effort into something. Why do you want to take that away in order to please some kids with entitlement issues who'll probably quit anyway after they get podded once?
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:26:00 - [50] Originally by: Andrue Eve's attraction is that you play it for the long haul. I don't want to rush it because I play it for the journey not for the toys. QFT -- Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes ^^ Woo hoo! Yellow Text!... wait... :(
DaveW Caldari South Park Development	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:29:00 - [51] Did you REALLY have to start another thread on Learning Skills...? --------------------------------------------------- "If you can't stand the heat..., stay out of the Kitchen."
Little Tigerlilly	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the ***. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. It's already pretty hard to start with this game, so I suggest to increase the starting SP to 2M, with at least all basic learning to 4. (and maybe 2-3 adv learning to 1-2) I'm sure that with Trinity's new graphics, a lot of potential players might start to join us, let's help them. I think it's a great idea to assist training the learning skills but I think it needs to be connected to missions that explain the benefits of them and speed players through those skills. Maybe have a set of missions at a school that award the skill books and bump their training up to level 4's in all the primary skills over time. Similar to how agent missions award implants, school missions award training in the primary learning skills up to level 4. The purpose would be to get new players trained up on learning skills while letting them still do combat and have fun. When I was training my char's learning skills in the beginning there was a lot of time wasted because I wasn't training combat skills and the enemies quickly became more than I could handle. It was temporary but for a new player they would likely get tired of this and move on, I pushed through because I knew I'd be able to train all the skills I needed very fast after all was said and done.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:40:00 - [53] Most ppls are against something which can help new players in the frist steps of playing or let them learn a bit faster. How long it takes to bring a charekter now to maximum skillpoints? 32 years of real life time?+++ more with new skills. Most ppls are not willing to accept something which woud be an adventage for new starting chars, cos they dont get it when the start(envy). If there woud be something which is limtied and also avaiable for old players which could be a challenge??? The "hard way" like old players had play it after 4 years + i personal think this is no more "up to date" and deterrent many new players. I dont want " noobquest" or World of Noobs" or Lord of the Noobs". 20- 30% faster learning ( dont forget its 32 years + for all skills) woud be better ( if u look for the skill float which will come on us in the future) my 2 (euro)cents "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi " EVE FAN since 2003
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:45:00 - [54] The reason I forum ***** for now....
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:48:00 - [55] bad idea, i reply to the same crappy question for about the 100th time, if you want a mmo where you can level up and challenge the older players after a few days then go play wow instead.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:49:00 - [56] People that cry about learning skill DO suck.
Lysianna	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:05:00 - [57] Learning Skills sucks and that's a fact. However, you don't have to train them in one huge bulk... I don't know but even real life universities and such don't do that. If you do it right, you can get a decent ship and some nice modules within the first week. Then put a week in skills while you build your capital. When you start getting into the more advance stuff, then you start putting some time into your learning skills. I started to learn the advance skills only when I was actually flying a battlecruiser. Now that I can do L4 missions, some exploration and some decent PVP, i'm taking the time to finish off the skills.
Charly Quickfire STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Maximillian Dragonard Yet another thread on this topic?? Face facts, learning skills are here to stay. CCP isn't about to radically alter the game just to appease the "I want it now" crowd. This game is all about *choices* If you choose to *invest* the time in learning skills, you benefit long term. If you choose not to, you pay a price. Hmmm..... ya know, kinda like if you choose to continue your education in r/l you benefit, if not you pay a price.. this In terms of new player experience, CCP already made a good decision in increasing starter SPs to 800k (in addition implants are ALOT cheaper today than 2003). Imo there is no real need to increase this even further and there is definatly no need to give new players all learning skills at lvl4 right from the start. All about choices, just as quoted above.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:44:00 - [59] I disagree. Learning skills is my last line of defense against a horde of instant gratification goons just waiting to overrun my senses. Removing this educational bastion of patience and fortitude it'll devolve into a 'no investment down' shooter. 800k starting capital and the achura default character is quite enough. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Christina Vallentine Caldari GalTech Industrials Inc Dark Matter Empire	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:53:00 - [60] Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 30/11/2007 17:56:25 Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 30/11/2007 17:54:05 Originally by: shortattenionsp People that train learning skills to 5 normal / 4 advanced before doing anything are peope who are training alts that already have main that they play. No one wants to spend the first month paying for the game without progressing, its a bad diea to suggest this as a requirement to new players, it will only put them off. The key is to get learning skills slowly over time as you require them, rather than in big chunks like an alt which you're not going to play for 6 months. Makes me chuckle when people say new players have it made though. Start and new character and see how you feel. Yes they have 800k starting skills, but 512k of that is in two lvl 5 skills, with many of the basics missing. New characters would be much better with a lot more level 3 / 4 skills spread out, but thats another post. Yes learning skills are a **ter, but they're in the game and they're not gonna go away, so just get them as you feel you need them. Do the calculations to see how long they will take to pay off too. Personally i've avoided any lvl 5 learning skills, I'd much prefer to spend the training time on new skills I can enjoy, ie new modules or bonuses. When I reach the next plateau with my training i'll probably get them. Yup ni 6 months time i'll be losing sp i could have had if i'd spent time training learning skills. Its a game after all and not a second job, the point of playing is to have fun, so train your skills accordingly. Actually what you said above is wrong. When I started this game with my 12 thousand skill points or whatever the first impression I got from the entire community was learn the learning skills or you are **. How did I learn this? I asked in the help channel and posted on the forums for guidance from the ancient and wise players. So I did exactly what you are saying is only reserved for alts and learned every learning skill, it took me 3 months. I then quit the game because of frustration. Then eventually came back almost a year later. (I almost didn't.) This community is the first thing new players will come too when they start this game. They are looking for guidance, they are looking for a path, they want to know where to put those skill points so they donÆt mess up in the beginning. And most of you veterans out there are messing it up for them and making them believe they have to get these skills RIGHT NOW!!. You have been in the damn grind for so long that you have lost sight of how much fun this game could really be if you stop min-maxing. The best advice I could give to a new player is not to learn the learning skills, but to avoid chatting with the community here for the first month. That would be 100% better then having them come here and learning that: "Omg im screwed if I don't follow the eve-online text book in terms of progression." Things on CCP's end are fine. They have provided the proper tools for a new player. It isn't until that player floats off the noobie path and comes to a place like this or that damn help channel that they get frustrated and sad. PS: Most of you are a bunch of demoralizing *****s. To those of you that arenÆt, humanity thanks you.

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