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Learning skills DO suck

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Varshyll	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:34:00 - [1] Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the ***. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. It's already pretty hard to start with this game, so I suggest to increase the starting SP to 2M, with at least all basic learning to 4. (and maybe 2-3 adv learning to 1-2) I'm sure that with Trinity's new graphics, a lot of potential players might start to join us, let's help them. CCP will earn a lot of $$$ and will be able to create a nice Vampire MMO !!! \o/ PS : I do NOT need another alt :p PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:36:00 - [2] Bottom line, if you cant find the right balance between training the learning skills and training skills that actually make you enjoy the game, you have failed.
Chris Supernova Gallente Xtraders	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:37:00 - [3] Would you like them to give you 1 billion ISK aswell when you start? Common get serious.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:38:00 - [4] you've got it easy, you used to have to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could begin training the SOCT learning skills. ---
Jaikar Isillia The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:40:00 - [5] I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield".
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:44:00 - [6] No. The fact that the game is niche, difficult, complex, has a long learning curve, takes effort etc etc is what it's all about. If you want easy and disposable then chose something else. G. BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies
Triksterism Gallente Image Not Found	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". Nice :) Gave me a chuckle ----------------------------------- *CCP Please update my portrait on the website/forums :D*
Jaikar Isillia The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Triksterism Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". Nice :) Gave me a chuckle Then my day is complete.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Chris Supernova Would you like them to give you 1 billion ISK aswell when you start? Common get serious. The tutorial and first mission does give 1 million isk in asset if you count the ships and stuff given to you. -- random eve-related content --
Chris Supernova Gallente Xtraders	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:58:00 - [10] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Chris Supernova Would you like them to give you 1 billion ISK aswell when you start? Common get serious. The tutorial and first mission does give 1 million isk in asset if you count the ships and stuff given to you. Read again what you quoted.

Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.30 13:59:00 - [11] Only if i get free 1.2mill SP too.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". You win EvE fourms today. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:07:00 - [13] Sorry but I came to this game because of things like the learning skills, eve isn't WoW and most ppls are all the more happier for this. If I had wanted a game where i could be contending within a few months I would have gone to either WoW/LoTRO ( I,ve tryed them, and all the easier start-up means is that you'll reach the c#ap grind quicker). Other option open is to play Freelancer or X3 on easy. Eve was never meant to be easy to play and I hope that it stays this way. Meant more to me when I finaly jumpped into the ship I wanted
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the ***. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. It's already pretty hard to start with this game, so I suggest to increase the starting SP to 2M, with at least all basic learning to 4. (and maybe 2-3 adv learning to 1-2) I'm sure that with Trinity's new graphics, a lot of potential players might start to join us, let's help them. CCP will earn a lot of $$$ and will be able to create a nice Vampire MMO !!! \o/ PS : I do NOT need another alt :p PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer. CCP should just start everyone at level 70 with an epic set. Then they can quit stright away because they've won EvE endgame. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
GruFF83 V i r u s	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:09:00 - [15] you dont have to do your learning skills all at once.... oobviously it pays off in the long run. im a 2 year old toon ann ive still not completed all my learning to lvl 5 - i think i only have ~2.5 mil in learning but i still manage.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the ***. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. It's already pretty hard to start with this game, so I suggest to increase the starting SP to 2M, with at least all basic learning to 4. (and maybe 2-3 adv learning to 1-2) I'm sure that with Trinity's new graphics, a lot of potential players might start to join us, let's help them. CCP will earn a lot of $$$ and will be able to create a nice Vampire MMO !!! \o/ PS : I do NOT need another alt :p PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer. NO, but changing the effect of learning skills and giving every char in game +10 to all attri would be fine
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". You win EvE fourms today. Hey yeah! Let's get rid of ALL new players, why didn't I think of that?! -- Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the *. It's better for those players to give up and go elsewhere than to ruin the experience for the rest of us. Eve is not supposed to be a fast-paced game where all the toys are available to any yahoo willing to play the game 23/7 for a week. Eve is supposed to be a slow-paced game where people make plans and get enjoyment from watching those plans come to fruition. The instant gratification brigade have enough alternatives to play. Let them play those and get bored within a month. Eve's attraction is that you play it for the long haul. I don't want to rush it because I play it for the journey not for the toys. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". Yup. That and the risk/consequences of random gankage. Keep those dweebs out. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Nianda SeCann Sorry but I came to this game because of things like the learning skills, eve isn't WoW and most ppls are all the more happier for this. If I had wanted a game where i could be contending within a few months I would have gone to either WoW/LoTRO ( I,ve tryed them, and all the easier start-up means is that you'll reach the c#ap grind quicker). Other option open is to play Freelancer or X3 on easy. Eve was never meant to be easy to play and I hope that it stays this way. Meant more to me when I finaly jumpped into the ship I wanted i have been in this game a long time now and i have passed the 25mill sp a good time back now, and i still think that the learning skills is nothing but a killer for newer players. TRUST ME! wow players will not invade eve because you remove the learning skills you damn little game racial wow haters ;) :P but it will let a lot of people that could be a good diversity to the game join up and help the fun in game for all of us.

poooooooobritaltt	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Varshyll Now Trinity is nearly out, it is time to help the many new players a little. CCP did a great job one year ago, by increasing the amount of SP. But I think that it's not enough. Those *** learning skills are still a pain in the ***. Mostly new players give up because of this painfull, long and costly step, while you do not see any improve on you character's ability. It's already pretty hard to start with this game, so I suggest to increase the starting SP to 2M, with at least all basic learning to 4. (and maybe 2-3 adv learning to 1-2) I'm sure that with Trinity's new graphics, a lot of potential players might start to join us, let's help them. CCP will earn a lot of $$$ and will be able to create a nice Vampire MMO !!! \o/ PS : I do NOT need another alt :p PS2 : plz no "OMG it was hard for me, it has to be hard for them" whining answer. this has to be a troll since it would kill the game and would make the game supporting old players leave without actually bringing any newbies in
Darina Rea Naqam	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Glassback No. The fact that the game is niche, difficult, complex, has a long learning curve, takes effort etc etc is what it's all about. If you want easy and disposable then chose something else. G. It has a fairly steep learning curve.. not a very long one. Picking a skill to train and then logging on and off to change isn't very difficult either. Thanks to insurances most ships are simply disposable (even battleships). It also isn't that difficult or complex after you have done the learning curve. Fitting a ship after one month of play doesn't change radically even after 4 years of play even though the ships and the modules you use might change with time (going from tech 1 to tech2 and from frigates to battleships). I was pretty annoyed with learning skills while I had to do them, but only because I had to choose between training something usefull and directly affecting the gameplay (like energy management) and something that didn't directly give me anything, but only shorten the time of those slightly. _________ Time is on our side.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:18:00 - [23] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 30/11/2007 14:19:59 Originally by: Chris Supernova The tutorial and first mission does give 1 million isk in asset if you count the ships and stuff given to you. Read again what you quoted. Same to you... new player do start the game by making the tutorial, which is semi-instanced, so from a technical point of view, as long as you do it, you start the real game with 1 million in assets and isk. Well, it's probably because I don't consider the tutorial to be part of the game. I mean, there is no risk, no challenge, no other people in it... Of course, if you don't do the tutorial, you start with nothing, but if you do, you're probably an alt that will get his millions from the main, an idiot, which is another problem, or someone that already has friends in the game to explain how it works (that often will give you pocket money to start anyway). Back on topic, the learning don't really "slightly" reduce training time. Average starting stats are something like 6 or 7, getting them to 4/3 with learning skills takes a week, which means that with just a week of learning skills, you've reduced your training time by nearly half. Which is a significant amount... -- random eve-related content --
Polcor Rodal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:19:00 - [24] Yeah, more SP at the start, higher attributes, please let us create Insta-Covops alts whenever we need one, or an instant Frig ganker, please...gimme. Pol If in danger, or in doubt, run in cricles, scream and shout
Esteban Brandei	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:19:00 - [25] Damned where is my mothership ? What I don't starts with all the skill maxed a fleet of capital/mothership and 1 trillion isk ? Come on guys the newx players already got a mega boost allowing them to start with T2 stuffs.... Don't you remember all the players who started with 40K SP 2000 ISK and a rookie ship ? you are spitting in their face claiming more SP/stuff for new character.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I think other players have put it right in the terms of learning skills being the "WoW Deflector shield". You win EvE fourms today. Hey yeah! Let's get rid of ALL new players, why didn't I think of that?! You, agreeing with a stupid idea....why am i not surprised? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Chris Supernova Gallente Xtraders	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 30/11/2007 14:19:59 Originally by: Chris Supernova The tutorial and first mission does give 1 million isk in asset if you count the ships and stuff given to you. Read again what you quoted. Same to you... new player do start the game by making the tutorial, which is semi-instanced, so from a technical point of view, as long as you do it, you start the real game with 1 million in assets and isk. Stop being a smartass , open your eyes and read. I wrote 1 billion ISK not 1 million.
Amaron Ghant Caldari Matsuko Industries	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Buyerr Originally by: Nianda SeCann Sorry but I came to this game because of things like the learning skills, eve isn't WoW and most ppls are all the more happier for this. If I had wanted a game where i could be contending within a few months I would have gone to either WoW/LoTRO ( I,ve tryed them, and all the easier start-up means is that you'll reach the c#ap grind quicker). Other option open is to play Freelancer or X3 on easy. Eve was never meant to be easy to play and I hope that it stays this way. Meant more to me when I finaly jumpped into the ship I wanted i have been in this game a long time now and i have passed the 25mill sp a good time back now, and i still think that the learning skills is nothing but a killer for newer players. TRUST ME! wow players will not invade eve because you remove the learning skills you damn little game racial wow haters ;) :P but it will let a lot of people that could be a good diversity to the game join up and help the fun in game for all of us. 25 mill? Not been playing that long then. The skill system (and the skillpoints available to new players) is fine as is. It acts as a filter. Those with patience stay and those with the attention span of a gnat leave.
Barimen	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:29:00 - [29] No need to increase the SP given at start, 1m sp or thereabouts is over ten times what I got when I started. But that being said, learning skills are dull and a possibility to move the SP you get at start around a bit may not be a bad idea, something like half of that 1m SP goes into learning wich I think should put you somewere in the 4/3 area in learning skills, not counting charisma. It is ok to have a wow deflector, no need to make it T2 though. CCP is after all a company and allthough they seem more tuned to their players wishes then most other MMO companies it is a money game for them, as long as any changes does not affect the old players I see no harm in this, more people in a game like EVE is a win win. If you like them, invite them, if not, shoot them.. ;) Admittedly, the EVE servers seems to have started to hit its limits recently, got my first login queue for the first time the other day. Only about one minute but still, the game is growing rapidly.
RaTTuS BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.30 14:30:00 - [30] they may suck - but they get +1 implants from the off [or very nearly] also you don't have to train them - and you cirtainly dont have to train them to 5/5 get them to 4 is dead easy - and then if you've made 5Mil you can get an advanced one .. /me sighs -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve [Now Verified] & Recruiting



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