EVE Search - Level 4 Agents are 'Anti-Soloists'

All Channels

Missions & Complexes

Level 4 Agents are 'Anti-Soloists'

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.03.09 19:42:00 - [1] According to the developement page, Lvl 4 Agents will give kill missions that are not soloable. Linkage Eve is turning into Anarchy Online. The dev's are slapping the soloists in the face, as if their saying "we don't want you in OUR game". They need an attitude adjustment. I don't 'team', didn't in AO and won't in Eve. The Dev's need to realize, their annoying a large number of users in this attitude. Sorry freaks, if I had wanted to be on a team, I'd have joined a corp. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Nomi Asterrn	Posted - 2004.03.09 20:09:00 - [2] Edited by: Nomi Asterrn on 09/03/2004 20:15:19 Level 4 Agents Level 4 Agents are the next step in the agent ladder. They will give out much harder missions. In the first step only kill missions are available. You will need to work in a team to fulfill a mission. It will not be possible to complete any level 4 agent mission with less than a battleship + friends. On the other hand reward and standing gain will be twice as high as for a level 3 agent. Hmmm I do agree , some. I have been a lone corper from the beginning and have two NPC corps at 9.0+ and many above 4.0+ and may have access to a number of level 4 when they come online. It will annoy me but thats life in Eve. You have to adapt and overcome. I see I will either have to max my other corps all the level three and have them all at 9.0 (as a way to make my isk and living ) Or MAYBE I open the doors to my corp, or maybe I pay the odd contract fee to others. I have done this in the past through laziness, fear (number of pod kills in certain systems) or when I think I can spread some isk to a develeoping player. Like most issues you can pay to get around it !!! THE WEAK CAUSE MORE HARM THAN THE STRONG
Cosh	Posted - 2004.03.09 20:23:00 - [3] Why not start an agent runner channel in game, or is there one already??
Cosh	Posted - 2004.03.09 20:25:00 - [4] ooops, apparently there is a `missions` channel in game. I should really think b4 posting :)
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:10:00 - [5] While the removal of the ability to go solo will annoy me as well, especially if the reward is only double that of the level 3 (the isk I am not worried about, the standing increase though is minimal... having just started a new agent I just feel utter despair at working up through another 50 identical hauling missions :)). Before people comment on the 'minimal' bit in there, remember it will be much more effort to coordinate a group to do a mission than just having the mission runner by themselves, and so presumably the missions will take longer to complete, hence if it is a raw double you stand to gain, well, we will see... :) However, I am also intrigued as to how they are going to make it impossible for a solo player to complete a mission that a 'battleship + friends' can complete. There are tactics for most things, unless you start to put very specific restrictions in (such as pressing two buttons on the other side of the universe at the same time :)). That sort of statement counts as a challenge :) Cirle
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:18:00 - [6] Edited by: Carfax on 09/03/2004 21:27:58 Hmm I want I want I want waaaaah, throws carebear out of the playpen. Wouldn't try hunting BS spawns alone in sec 0 systems so why complain that lvl 4 missions should be easier ? . ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:31:00 - [7] Quote: Edited by: Carfax on 09/03/2004 21:27:58 Hmm I want I want I want waaaaah, throws carebear out of the playpen. Wouldn't try hunting BS spawns alone in sec 0 systems so why complain that lvl 4 missions should be easier ? . <dons the flame proof pants> I would quite happily go hunting BS spawns in 0.0 if it were not for the other players out there :P It is not everyones cup of tea to play with other people ;) Cirle
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:42:00 - [8] by your argument missions should be limited so that they can be performed by a single player. That anything that would require a larger group should not be offered as a mission. A bit unrealistic to expect mission agents to turn down profitable business coz a section of the community won't do them but another will. Which is to say you wish the entire game to be shaped to your convenience which smacks of a carebear mission runner variant to me cuddles ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Viduus	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:48:00 - [9] You'll still be able to solo... Only, you'll be limited to lvl 3 and under. There's absolutely no reason that the devs should limit the team players to cater to the soloists, nor vice-versa. In this instance, giving to the groups in regards to missions is actually a 1st for CCP, so I should think that you wouldn't be that insulted. Besides, I'm betting that there are some BS pilots out there that can do them solo.... * Public Channel: NEA *
Orestes	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:52:00 - [10] In what way, exactly, will a new feature stop you from playing as a freelancer? also, in most games there are 'mobs' or 'quests' that can only be done by a group of players. In what way are these lvl 4 missions different? Join the IC!
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:55:00 - [11] Edited by: Cirle on 09/03/2004 21:56:57 Quote: by your argument missions should be limited so that they can be performed by a single player. That anything that would require a larger group should not be offered as a mission. A bit unrealistic to expect mission agents to turn down profitable business coz a section of the community won't do them but another will. Which is to say you wish the entire game to be shaped to your convenience which smacks of a carebear mission runner variant to me cuddles You are talking to me? At what point did I ever say that I wanted missions limited so that they could be performed by a single player? I believe, if you read my post, I said that missions for groups present a challenge for a single player, and that in terms of design it is very hard to create something which you can guarantee only a group can do (unless you ramp up the numbers for sheer force). That is not the same thing as 'make it so single players can do everything'. Dear. (just in case it needs it, there is an implicit smiley at the end of that :)) Cirle
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:04:00 - [12] Quote: In what way, exactly, will a new feature stop you from playing as a freelancer? They've made it impossible for me to take on the BS missions by removing them from lvl 3 agents. Most soloists could take them without much trouble, now I'll be forced into something I didn't want when I started Eve: to play 'nice' with others. PULEEZE! Quote: also, in most games there are 'mobs' or 'quests' that can only be done by a group of players. In what way are these lvl 4 missions different? Are you aware that AO did this and lost 20% of their customers who 'didn't agree' with being FORCED into teams? AO had to be changed to give these 'soloists' something. You get the picture now? Lvl 5 agents should be 'Team' missions. Just the logic that fits. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
K'thang	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:08:00 - [13] Quote: also, in most games there are 'mobs' or 'quests' that can only be done by a group of players. In what way are these lvl 4 missions different? I don't mind lvl4 agents being missions for several players as I have mates to do them with, but in games like Anarchy Online there are two mission terminals, one for single player and one for teams. Couldn't it be implemented so when you talk to an agent you just specify what flavour you want? Ofcourse single player lvl4 missions would not be as lucurative as team ones though. Just a thought. K.
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:11:00 - [14] 20% of MMORPG players don't have a social life and want to be left alone ? ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:13:00 - [15] Quote: 20% of MMORPG players don't have a social life and want to be left alone ? Probably more ;) Cirle
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:19:00 - [16] Yup, thats why god created home delivery fast food sellers and online supermarket deliveries ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:25:00 - [17] Damn skippy. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Lurk	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:33:00 - [18] Well, no one forces you to do lvl4 missions. They are needed as a challenge for very experienced players, not everyone should be able to do them, that exactly is the point of them ...
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.09 22:34:00 - [19] Quote: Yup, thats why god created home delivery fast food sellers and online supermarket deliveries See, the topic was jollying along quite happily and you had to mention food. Which means I am going to have to go and eat now. I invoke the geneva convention for humane torture on you... Cirle
Carfax	Posted - 2004.03.09 23:14:00 - [20] Geneva ? Its not a solar system, constellation or station. Is it a planet with no orbiting stations ? ======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ========================================
Ayar Cachi	Posted - 2004.03.10 00:04:00 - [21] Quote: According to the developement page, Lvl 4 Agents will give kill missions that are not soloable. Linkage As a freelancer who does about 5/7 - 6/7 of EVE time in 'solo' activities, all I can say to this approach Level 4 agents is: YAAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!! I can't wait!! Oh, I know a bunch of other de facto freelancers. We look out for each other and provide assistance, and do occassional things together (that's the 2/7 to 1/7). Just because I'm a freelancer doesn't mean I don't want to work with other players in joint activities. Come on, get real. (I'm just avoiding the nagging and bad corp management by not being in some big corp. I can provide those myself.) Removing Zor and not replacing him as promised really sucked the big a_rse. Gives us something to b_itch about about tho. Lowest Common Denominator.
Shorin	Posted - 2004.03.10 00:09:00 - [22] Quote: On the other hand reward and standing gain will be twice as high as for a level 3 agent. 1. Just twice? Do you suppose it will take more than twice as much work just to form a group to go off and do one mission? 2. How will the rewards be split? Does it only apply to the person that accepts? Is it shared amongst the gang members? Twice the reward split 3 ways? Or does each gang member get a full share? What about the gang members afk watching television? This wouldn't be the first mmog to reward that. 3. What if you help someone else do a mission and they bail? Are you going to fail it too? I'm not opposed to having grouped missions in the game. Although I like to solo, it only makes sense that a well organized group could make isk faster than me. I'm just hoping they are thinking this out. In any event, I'll be a bit sad that Zor won't be an option for those of us that like to solo. It was a lot more fun than the current kill missions. I was looking forward to seeing more of that. And now I just wish to quote a movie based on what I'm currently thinking, "Be afraid, be very afraid." I hope CCP proves me wrong in thinking that.
YuuKnow	Posted - 2004.03.10 01:46:00 - [23] I agree with Shorin. For what sounds like a lot a whole lot more work we're only goint to get twice the standing gains? I mean, no doubt that lv4s will probably make to travel 20 jumps to the far reaches of the galaxy and require groups, so it just doesn't seem the benefit is porportional to the amount of work required. I say if the missions are going to be that much harder then the gains should be quadrupled at least.
Managalar	Posted - 2004.03.10 03:13:00 - [24] solo play will always be important A lot of people don't have fixed schedules, I go to school in the day, work nights, and play Eve when I can. Sometimes I can play 20 minutes, other times I can play for hours. At present it takes way too much time to organize some group action. If my corp m8s are down in Stain, they are as good as offline if I need help on an Agent mission. Maybe the jump drive skill will help us get together easier, like the wizzies and druids of EQ, or the JEs of E&B with their group worm-hole abilities. =======Abaddon======= =======Abaddon=======
burntout	Posted - 2004.03.10 03:19:00 - [25] Quote: Posted - 2004.03.10 03:13:00 - Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- solo play will always be important A lot of people don't have fixed schedules, I go to school in the day, work nights, and play Eve when I can. Sometimes I can play 20 minutes, other times I can play for hours. At present it takes way too much time to organize some group action. If my corp m8s are down in Stain, they are as good as offline if I need help on an Agent mission. Well said m8
Ashantee	Posted - 2004.03.10 03:22:00 - [26] Quote: Quote: In what way, exactly, will a new feature stop you from playing as a freelancer? They've made it impossible for me to take on the BS missions by removing them from lvl 3 agents. Most soloists could take them without much trouble, now I'll be forced into something I didn't want when I started Eve: to play 'nice' with others. PULEEZE! Quote: also, in most games there are 'mobs' or 'quests' that can only be done by a group of players. In what way are these lvl 4 missions different? Are you aware that AO did this and lost 20% of their customers who 'didn't agree' with being FORCED into teams? AO had to be changed to give these 'soloists' something. You get the picture now? Lvl 5 agents should be 'Team' missions. Just the logic that fits. woah, let me get this right... you don't want to play with others? then why do you pay a monthly fee to play a multi-player (massive no less) game? Why not just put down the frist $20 and play a single player game? I guess it's just my way of thinking that someone who plays a MMO game would want to play it cause they are sick of playing with just AI, and they want some human interaction. If i didn't play with other people on EVE... i could just bring up Freelancer with AIM or ICQ running behind it.
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.03.10 08:39:00 - [27] Edited by: Lao Tzu on 10/03/2004 08:41:26 Quote: woah, let me get this right... you don't want to play with others? then why do you pay a monthly fee to play a multi-player (massive no less) game? Why not just put down the frist $20 and play a single player game? Some poeople like a big dynamic world to play in, which a single player game can't provide, some like to play only against other people, there are reasons to play MMOs and not be into team work. I quite like team work, but am often busy so can only give a bit of my attention to Eve, which make alot of teamwork hard. However I think this team work required will just be for the lvl 4 combat missions, which is fine with me as I'm not so keen on these anyway, but alot of solo runners do little else. As long either the rewards for the team missions make it feasable to gather some help, or if refusal of a 'team only' mission is not too harshly punnished we'll be fine
Haxar	Posted - 2004.03.10 08:45:00 - [28] Quote: In what way, exactly, will a new feature stop you from playing as a freelancer? also, in most games there are 'mobs' or 'quests' that can only be done by a group of players. In what way are these lvl 4 missions different? Mostly these MOBs are Uniques with unique loot and not missions, that's the difference. And if they are Uniques they will get camped. Do not let slip EverCamp into EVE. I would vote for "going hunting" as a team (means improve some hunting places and/or make more of them for every range of skill).
Tano	Posted - 2004.03.10 09:04:00 - [29] There is a big assumption in this thread that level iv missions will genuinely not be doable by single players. Evidence to date is that CCP underestimate the ingenuity of players (they have acknowledged this many times). There are people who solo hunt bs's in 0.0, did the Zor mission solo and do the Amarr bs mission solo. As soon as these missions come out I expect players to be looking at all the angles and soloing them. Be careful but don't complain until it happens.
Seth Dark	Posted - 2004.03.10 09:35:00 - [30] I thought I read a long time ago a post on the forums or in a dev chat log that there will be 2 kinds of Lvl 4 missions - one kind where you are forced to teamplay and one kind where you can solve the mission solo. The agent informs you when you need probably more than 1 ship and then you have the possibility to decline. That¦s the way it should go. We do not know what the Level 4 agents will bring us. Maybe you HAVE to do Lvl 4 missions because only by those you can recieve special standings, items etc. as today implants and Tech II components with Lvl 3. If the solo players here do stand before a closed door wouldn¦t be good. I don¦t think they are the minority. And personally I don¦t want to do 2 hours of chatting and organizing to make 1 succesful mission which gives me a 400K reward instead a 200K reward which then must be divided amongst all group members.
Judicator	Posted - 2004.03.10 09:56:00 - [31] I will agree the jump from "easy-to-do alone" level 3 missions to "must be done in team" level 4 is odd. Other games have mobs but as stated they are often unique and give some very unique and usefull stuff. Can we expect this from those level 4? Afterall, unless the loot you get is unique there is no point really since it will take time to get a team together and the rewards is only twice that for a level 3. I am fairly sure I can earn more cash and standing faster just sticking with level 3 missions than switching to level 4. I fly a Battleship but I often find myself just taking my trusty Thorax. It is faster overall since its agility and speed easily surpass that of my Megathron. I refuse to moan and complain now because I do not know exacly what the future will bring and I got some other plans in the long run. But tbf if missions go from pushover to undoable alone I will need to look for another profession or switch game. Time will tell. -------------------------
Psy Corp	Posted - 2004.03.10 10:16:00 - [32] just because of me thinking lv 4 agents will need Teamwork to do i made my corp.. thats one of the reseason the big one.. cause i wanted to beable to have other agent mission guys in the corp so we had eachother close by but anyway.. the one thing im interested in knowing is.. will corporation standing ie my corp Optimus standing to the npc corp need to be as high as my own to do them.. that is a thing that would be interesting to know I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
K'thang	Posted - 2004.03.10 10:56:00 - [33] Heh, or people with two or more accounts can just bring these to the same fray and thus being able to "solo" the mission if they are too difficult for one A salestrick from the CCP? K.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.03.10 11:20:00 - [34] I have two problems with this. I have been playing for about a month, and can already complete almost any level 3 mission solo in a cruiser. Suddenly, to go any higher, i not only need a bs, but support aswell. Where is the progression in this? Secondly, if level 4 missions require bs+friends, what will the eventual level 5s require? Titan + corporate outing? That's ridiculous. This is clearly just a move to keep the veterans in the game from leaving before the real content turns up (Shiva), not a development of the agent system.
Judicator	Posted - 2004.03.10 11:43:00 - [35] Quote: I have two problems with this. I have been playing for about a month, and can already complete almost any level 3 mission solo in a cruiser. Suddenly, to go any higher, i not only need a bs, but support aswell. Where is the progression in this? Secondly, if level 4 missions require bs+friends, what will the eventual level 5s require? Titan + corporate outing? That's ridiculous. This is clearly just a move to keep the veterans in the game from leaving before the real content turns up (Shiva), not a development of the agent system. The agent system in EVE has always been borked. In the beginning the missions where dreadfully boring and the pay ludicrious. That was eventually changed, especially when the first implants hit. Some people got insanely rich from that. The main problem with the agent system is there is no "connectivity" between the levels. Level 1 and 2 are generally speaking pushovrs even for a relativly new player while level 3 require a cruiser and some decent combat skills. What is lacking is a gradual transgression from I -> V and this is clearly not the case. In most other games NPC and areas, or zones if you like, have a natural transgression as the player himself advances. He gains new skills and better stuff and can advance towards harder NPC and this better reward in terms of xp, stuff and cash. At some point all other games I have ever played required teamwork, at least MMO type of games. I think the problem stems from the fact agents where never really a big thing, it as seen by CCP as a way for a new player to earn some cash and nothing else. Of course people cried, righhtfuly, havoc because mining was so ³ber compared to agent running, and to an extend even chaining, altough a skilled player could chain millions "easy" I think the agent system in EVE is unsalvagable tbh. Or the need to develop it and make ultimatly wipe clean the slate. Problem with this is, a lot of players with many skill points and big ships would be forced to do lame level 1 missions again. Wren made a good post about what he thought agent would be usefull for, hacking the security of a system, getting liscenses to kill bonuntied players. Basically be usefull. The way it works is fundamentally flawed because the development of it was neglected. Aat least that is how I see it. If the can make a system that has a natural transgression from I -> V based on estimates of players skills it might work better than now. Estimates are estimates, but most veterans, and devs I hope, can gauge how hard the variouos missions should be. I mean, the first time a player talks to an agent he shoudl look at the age of that char and give missions according then keep a "rank" for the player. So, he is given light missions first, small kill or haulage missions. As the agent notes he gets older and gets more skill points and are able to complete the missions given he will give out more advanced missions, still only level 1 missions, but more advanced than the first batch. This way a olayer can advanced more gradually and the move from A -> B will seem less steep. A system such as that would hve allowed Zor to stay, because the agent would be able to estimate if a certain player had what it takes in terms of skill, age and ability based on all the other missions. You could imagine a system where all agents have missions graduated from 0 - 9. Once a player can complete missions of type 9 without problems he shouidl be considered fro advancement to a level 2. A way to estimate would be if the player refuses the type 9 a lot he is abviouslt not skilled enough to advance, asumption is, if he refuses he either cannot haul that kind of load to that kind of security wihtin xx timeframe or kill npc of type xx with yy difficulty. Phew, back to work. -------------------------
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.03.10 13:11:00 - [36] Quote: I quite like team work, but am often busy so can only give a bit of my attention to Eve, which make alot of teamwork hard. How exactly is teamwork hard? There's buddy lists, you can convo anybody in the game over any distance, set your autopilot (to avoid or not avoid dangerous areas), make your own channels, form gangs across systems, join a corp...etc. I've never seen a MMORPG that made it easier for people to get together, interact and do stuff together. Plus nowadays you have the superhighway, it doesn't take anywhere near as long to get together with people as it used to. Boy people cry wolf a lot...
fras	Posted - 2004.03.10 13:32:00 - [37] I can't wait. Finally a challenge that doesn't involve PvP.
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.03.10 15:08:00 - [38] Quote: How exactly is teamwork hard? did you read what you qouted before you posted it?
Dark Stranger	Posted - 2004.03.10 15:17:00 - [39] Most MMOs require teamwork, EVE on other hand promotes solo play for almost everything. I'm glad lvl 4 missions will require some teamwork.
Ethidium Bromide	Posted - 2004.03.10 15:48:00 - [40] i'd be happy if lvl4 agents would give team missions occasionaly and the agent informs you that this is one so you can bring up a team but only team missions? i don't know sounds stupid haveing to stick to your lvl3 agent when no one is online or interessted in missions for some hours. this will hit roleplayers double hard as they can't team up with anyone maybe if you were able to ask for a team and a solo mission, like this location service or something. that would be nice.
Tanner Mirabel	Posted - 2004.03.10 16:38:00 - [41] There should be solo options for lvl 4, It should be easy to have a refusal option that doesn't give a drop in standing. I think team missions are a really great idea but it shouldn't be team or nothing. people who have devoted themselves to missions for months haven't been doing it as a team and it seems stupid that after putting all the time in they will be stopped from progressing in their chosen progression. Surely there can be both oprtions. What if the agent offered the mission, says it could be a difficult and asks you if you have back up and if you reply yes you get the team mission, if you reply no you get the single player version. Also with that idea is you are solo and want an uber mission you can say you have back up and if you are a small group with low combat skills you could say you don't have back up and take on a difficult solo mission together.
Taleden	Posted - 2004.03.10 17:00:00 - [42] Disclaimer: This is long, because it is thorough. Okay, this whole "level 4 agents are anti-solo!" idea is starting to bug me.. it just doesn't make any sense. Let's consider some possible courses of action that would appease the "soloists": 1) Never introduce level 4 agents, keep the agent system exactly as it is now, where every mission can be done alone. Needless to say, this is a dumb idea. 2) Make level 4 agents give missions that are soloable, but make those missions also less rewarding than they would be if they were not soloable, since they will (of course) be easier than missions which are not soloable. This kinda makes sense, except that then level 4 agents are really no different from level 3 agents.. why not just allow level 3 agents to give slightly harder missions, with slightly higher rewards? 3) Make level 4 agents give missions that are soloable, and make those missions more rewarding than level 3 missions. This doesn't seem fair - basically you're asking for a free pay raise for doing just as much work as you did before. If the mission isn't any harder, why should the pay be higher? I know people will post saying "level 3 agents aren't hard enough, we want more challenge, but we want the challenge to still be soloable". Fine, I can understand that. But at some point, mission difficulty has to reach a level where it is no longer possible to run them alone; whether that's with level 4 agents, level 5 agents, level 20 agents, doesn't matter. If we never get to that point, it will be like option 1 - shortchange the whole game and stop the introduction of new things, to appease one group of players. So, assuming that we do reach that point, does it not stand to reason that the rewards for these harder missions should be greater than the rewards for previous easier missions? "Non-soloable" implies "harder", which ought to imply "more profitable".. that's just a basic lemma of game design. Given all this, I fail to see how introducing level 4 agents with non-soloable missions which pay more than level 3 agents is "anti-solo". That's like saying the Olympics are "anti-little-league".. we have little-leagues for people to play at that skill level, but why should we stop people who are able to perform better from doing so? Similarly, running missions alone is fine, nobody is saying you shouldn't run missions alone - so why do you want to prevent people who want to run missions together from doing so?
Swift	Posted - 2004.03.10 17:06:00 - [43] I don't understand what the issue is - group play is fun for many people and now you can call your friends and do Agent missions together. I can only think of that as a 'good' thing. Most mmporgs are impossible to solo in at most points - this game allows numerous options to do your own thing - so why remove an option for more group work together in agent missions? Its a step in the right direction - Lvl 5 Agents should then in turn require even more co-ordination between parties. It makes little sense anyway why missions that such a high level agent would give would ever be soloable by a person in 'one' ship, regardless if its a battleship. ----- --- 'The truth about low sec space is that it reveals humanity - the 'essence' of all the races, in its purest form. A place where Concord no longer polices or protects, 'human nature' thrives in all its distilled destructive self-serving glory. Welcome to hell ladies and gentlemen, welcome to what it really is to be human.' -Swiftare 'Swift' Sarum.
Gunship	Posted - 2004.03.10 18:02:00 - [44] moan moan moan... I'm looking forward to get a few m8s together and go out doing these new missions
K'thang	Posted - 2004.03.10 18:13:00 - [45] Why does it have to be either it is soloable or it is not? Why not, as I stated earlier and also some others have mentioned, have an option to either accept the groupmissions which is harder and way more profitable or say no and get an soloable mission instead? As I also said before I do not mind groupmissions as I have friends to do them with, but there will be lots of times when I am online and they are not should I then just revert back to level3 missions? And forget the team-up-with-someone-else-that-wants because I tried that in AO and there was always quarrels about the loot or someone just took it all an vanished. Frankly it can't be that hard to implement a system that lets you choose if you want a solomission or a group one, and with higher payoff on the latter wouldn't we all have what we want and be happy? I doesn't have to be ether this or either that. K.
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.10 18:53:00 - [46] Edited by: Rancid Mare on 10/03/2004 19:40:25 Edited by: Rancid Mare on 10/03/2004 19:30:11 its all wrong if you ask me. at the moment i can log on anytime i like. work for as long or as little as i like and know that my time is well spent. IF the lvl 4 agents require more than one player then thats all out of the window. i will now be reliant upon other players to progress thru the agent system and that is wrong. i like the idea of group missions in priciple..but they should be the top most missions. missions of importance. for me to call up a group of Marshal battle ships there better be a real damm good reason...like a mission truley worth doing. lvl 4's should be do-able solo. hard yes...almost impossible at times..yes also but pre-req of atleast two players will only harm the solo player and aid the bigger corps, something that happens all too often. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Rancid Mare	Posted - 2004.03.10 19:59:00 - [47] something else also occured to me. will you all get copys of the bookmark... one thing i have noticed..which really needs to be fixed if this proceeds. is the fact you cannot gang warp to a mission bm. i have tried this and you do not get the gang warp option. you have to warp to bm and then yer mate has to gang warp to you. is the opposing pirates are as bad as suggested that needs two ships then the delay in your wing warping to you will be very damaging to say the least. see even i can have sensible comments to make...sometimes..rarely. and whilst im hot... what about wingman rewards ? the wing men really ought to get some reward for their work both is isk and in status. so whould be nice if the system chould pay a secondary rewared to wingmen and also give them a small fraction increase. mabye if its a real important mission then wingmen get an equal reward or bonus. Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals. Our Webby Recruitement Videos here
Mrissa Easeah	Posted - 2004.03.10 20:49:00 - [48] I think when they say they're not soloable, they -are- talking sheer combat difficulty. It would be nice if they were referring to other tasks like having to have two events happen in different systems simultaneously, but very likely it just means the targets are big, they have nasty escourts, and they aren't pushovers. I don't think there'll be anything preventing the agent runner from -attempting- to solo the mission. This is just their means of giving fair warning that they're intended to be that hard, and -no- amount of petitioning will get you your ship back if the mission isn't bugged in any way. Some, I'm sure, will be able to solo IV's in battleships, but I suspect they'll have to work their hineys off to keep from losing their ship.
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.03.10 22:12:00 - [49] Many people fail to 'understand' freelancers/soloists. We're not, as some think, 'cut from the same cloth'. Let's examine: 1) Some are happy to be loners, but will group up. 2) Some are adverse to grouping at all. 3) Some have been 'burned' by other mmogs (AO comes to mind) by 'team' oriented missions 4) Some are just plain anti-social. Group 1, are 75% freelancer, they want to do things by themselves, but will get to gether with others. They are frequently chatting with people. Group 2, are 90% freelancer, they'd rather never group up, chat infrequently. Group 3, have been 'forced' by other games to team up for the good stuff, and tend not to play those games much if at all. They go from mmog to mmog looking for a game that avoids forcing them to team. Group 4, just plain dont like ANYBODY. You'll also find, that not all soloists follow the same rule. Some will be in a corp with others. Some, will be the only one in their OWN corp. Then there are those like me, who stayed in their starter corp. Group 3 has another problem they've encountered with other games. You team up, go on a team mission, kill the mobs, then have major arguments about who gets what loot. Thats the one thing that turns me off to team missions. I fit into catagory 2 and 3, with a sprinkling of 1 and 4. As you can see, even though the catagories are fixed, most soloists are described by more than 1. I hope this clears up why I'm annoyed with needing 'friends' to do lvl 4 agent missions. I want to encounter BS's in missions, but their not in lvl 3 anymore. Now that they've adjusted agents to look at what ship your in, maybe kill missions for lvl 3 agents (Navy, Security and Internal Security), can get Zor and his ilk back. It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.03.10 23:11:00 - [50] Quote: 3) Make level 4 agents give missions that are soloable, and make those missions more rewarding than level 3 missions. This doesn't seem fair - basically you're asking for a free pay raise for doing just as much work as you did before. If the mission isn't any harder, why should the pay be higher? You decrease the granularity of the level 3 agent mission selections, which are already astoundingly broad, thereby making a person have to keep a stable of ships around to complete missions (which range from kill 1 caldari condor to 2 battleships) or just take a battleship to everything which is slow, astoundingly boring, and equivelent to sending SEALs to beat up 1st graders most of the time. You also rule out a certain percentage of missions for people who otherwise would be fine with the system, and who have no option to fall back to a previous level, because level 2 is for real noobs. So for this option to work you basically have to completely rework the scaling of the agent missions, but thereby spend an astounding amount of time patching old code, vs generating new code, which means players complain about lack of content. Conversly, you can just add additional levels on top of the system with the inclusion of higher level agents and/or having some sorta "wonder-twins" action between players linking multiple agents. All of this has been talked about a few times before, like when the Devs have talked about the release of level 4 agents during the old release dates, and the dropping of Zor. So basically, they know how they're going to implement it at this point. So any discussion until it's actually release is mostly just idle banter. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Mandros Aslay	Posted - 2004.03.10 23:15:00 - [51] Is this still going .....wow. Down with AGENTS. Lets sit on the deck and drink many glasses of quafe with umbrellas in them.
Astrid Tron	Posted - 2004.03.10 23:29:00 - [52] Want solo-play in spaceships? Elite is a good game... This is a multiplayer game - be glad that lvl1-3 agents are soloable. "They need an attitude adjustment. I don't 'team', didn't in AO and won't in Eve. The Dev's need to realize, their annoying a large number of users in this attitude. Sorry freaks, if I had wanted to be on a team, I'd have joined a corp." Sure - it is the makers of EVE that need to change their attitude, not the morons who think soloplay is the holy grail of mmog's. Go play with your self --------------------------------------------- When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite
cmdrattus	Posted - 2004.03.10 23:58:00 - [53] as i see it lv 3 missions are cruiser missions so lv 4 missions should be bs missions lv 5 missions should be team mission see the progression
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.11 07:14:00 - [54] Quote: According to the developement page, Lvl 4 Agents will give kill missions that are not soloable. Linkage Eve is turning into Anarchy Online. The dev's are slapping the soloists in the face, as if their saying "we don't want you in OUR game". They need an attitude adjustment. I don't 'team', didn't in AO and won't in Eve. The Dev's need to realize, their annoying a large number of users in this attitude. Sorry freaks, if I had wanted to be on a team, I'd have joined a corp. Yeah really who would expect people having to work together in an online multiplayer game. What is CCP smoking? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Kaba Tron	Posted - 2004.03.11 09:05:00 - [55] Finaly some team play to EVE. When i came from Anarchy online I was surprised of lacking team play here. AO was team play extrem and eve is single play extrem. Only chance to play in team is pvp or mining where cooperation is realy a need. And i stayed here only because of skill train system so i dont need powerplay like crazy. I understand freelancers who like single play so maybe they will be affected with lvl4 agents. But as was said first type of missions will be only a combat missions. With a time there is a possibility to get mission which do not need BS+friend like haul 20k m3 something to somewhere There can every freelancer realise himself. But this game realy need some more teamwork and maybe special encouters through missions but also you should have chance to decide if you want it or not. This is mmorpg and not offline game so bring more team content please!
Tyrone Stone	Posted - 2004.03.11 09:39:00 - [56] Indeed, remember what the two M's in MMORPG stand for anyway!
Cineas	Posted - 2004.03.11 11:24:00 - [57] Why don't you have a go with whatever crops up and if you can't do it, ask in local for some additional fire power. Just imagine never losing a fight because your opponent was too hard. What would you aspire to as a free lancer?
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.03.11 13:25:00 - [58] "They've made it impossible for me to take on the BS missions by removing them from lvl 3 agents. Most soloists could take them without much trouble, now I'll be forced into something I didn't want when I started Eve: to play 'nice' with others. PULEEZE!" ... How about we 'puleeze' wait with the whining until we get to see first hand how difficult those lvl.4 missions really are? The devs' idea of 'not doable' varies greatly from the players' idea of the same (and even from player to player for that matter) as the track record shows...
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.11 18:16:00 - [59] I'm willing to bet good money level 4 agent missions can be done solo with a battleship, especially if they're anything like the Zor mission. Downright easy stuff for a skilled character and a battleship and some long range turrets. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.11 18:37:00 - [60] Quote: I'm willing to bet good money level 4 agent missions can be done solo with a battleship, especially if they're anything like the Zor mission. Downright easy stuff for a skilled character and a battleship and some long range turrets. Are you willing to bet though that CCP will not put in combat styles/tweaks to the pirates specifically to counter this behaviour though? Especially given you can only warp in at 60k maximum? (but yes, I would also think that a long range tactic should cover most scenarios) Cirle
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.03.11 18:40:00 - [61] Quote: Are you willing to bet though that CCP will not put in combat styles/tweaks to the pirates specifically to counter this behaviour though? Especially given you can only warp in at 60k maximum? (but yes, I would also think that a long range tactic should cover most scenarios) Cirle Even if they did, after a week of screaming bloody murder CCP would make it easy again. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.11 18:44:00 - [62] Quote: Quote: Are you willing to bet though that CCP will not put in combat styles/tweaks to the pirates specifically to counter this behaviour though? Especially given you can only warp in at 60k maximum? (but yes, I would also think that a long range tactic should cover most scenarios) Cirle Even if they did, after a week of screaming bloody murder CCP would make it easy again. Yes, sadly, I would again agree with you... anything which becomes a challenge for the more skilled players in a game tends to become impossible for the less. Which is a shame, as there are some very neat tactics you could code in which would work rather nicely. I wonder if they will give us 80/100/120km warp in distances though in the mean time? :) On an almost completely unrelated topic, has anyone tried kitting out a shield tank BS with shield and energy transfer arrays and using that to keep a couple of cruisers alive in smaller fights, given their propensity to die... or can you not transfer enough to keep them alive? Cirle
Morning Maniac	Posted - 2004.03.11 21:39:00 - [63] Lots of complain before we even see what these missions are like. Anyway, I thought the idea of using the missions channel was a good one. Maybe one per region even where all mission runners can call out for assistance. MM Channel "EVE University" www.eve-university.cjb.net (ingame) EVE University commercial
ProphetGuru	Posted - 2004.03.11 23:35:00 - [64] If many "soloist" had not complained about zor missions being to hard this would never had been a problem. Can't please everyone. Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
Shamad Conde	Posted - 2004.03.12 07:26:00 - [65] Quote: According to the developement page, Lvl 4 Agents will give kill missions that are not soloable. Linkage Eve is turning into Anarchy Online. The dev's are slapping the soloists in the face, as if their saying "we don't want you in OUR game". They need an attitude adjustment. I don't 'team', didn't in AO and won't in Eve. The Dev's need to realize, their annoying a large number of users in this attitude. Sorry freaks, if I had wanted to be on a team, I'd have joined a corp. The developpers should be appreciating(and supporting)team work more than someone who is doing things on his own. The simple reason is that there are more people in corps seeking team work, than anything else you will find. For you, level 1-3 agents will be still available.
Cineas	Posted - 2004.03.12 07:33:00 - [66] Ah but cirle you can warp in at 60 then MWD away for as long as you want. Most NPC's won't bother attacking you at that range.
Cirle	Posted - 2004.03.12 09:19:00 - [67] Quote: Ah but cirle you can warp in at 60 then MWD away for as long as you want. Most NPC's won't bother attacking you at that range. That would rather depend on what you are flying :) However, it is more an immersion thing than a complaint; it feels really odd to equip a ship with 100km range, then have to either send in a scout to 60km who then turns and runs to ~100km, or warp in yourself and immediately turn around and spend your time flying away while the enemy either sits there or, sometimes, chases :) In fact, it feels somewhat like Jim's Scorpion signature with the chasing bat ;) Cirle
Cineas	Posted - 2004.03.12 09:21:00 - [68] lol yeah good point. :)
Wotok	Posted - 2004.03.12 15:06:00 - [69] Would have renamed Lvl4/5 agents to Corporation-Agents Lvl1/2 and no one would complain. -- Wotok has no brain!
Tanner Mirabel	Posted - 2004.03.12 16:40:00 - [70] I can't understand why there is so much argument in here about how it should be 'solo not team' or 'team not solo'. People play MMORPG for all sorts of reasons, some people like to team constantly, some people just want to play and be involved in a world populated by other real players without relying on them to be able to do things. Why are we looking at it as team OR solo when what would make the most sense is a new system that offers improved and harder solo missions as well as missions requiring a team. If all they can bring in to start with is team kill missions then thats fine but the level 4 agents should, when fully operational, be providing an improvment in missions for everyone. This shouldn't be looked as as CCP bowing to one type of player or another, it should be a general improvemnet of the game which benefits as many players as possible regardless of their style of play.
Bobtheminer	Posted - 2004.03.12 17:04:00 - [71] Well said Tanner, the presumption among some seems to be that "MM" means that you be required to work in groups or teams rather than simply participating in a persistent enviroment as an individual (should you so chose) populated by other real individuals It's a matter of choice (imho)

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.