FW, one of the few things in EVE that is only dying on the forums.

In other news, fw is doing alive and well (check my kb if you don't believe me). While it could use some love all it really needs is more warriors.

On a side note to you FW people, check otu the Frig Fry Fridays. I was a skeptic, but it turns out to be as advertised and very very tasty (and in the neighborhood )

Everyone knows FW is for the noobs and CCP dont support noobs just carebears

Trolling = free bumps.

Keep it coming!

CCP, I'm really sure you missed the round table for FW. I know, you through the table was in the bar with the sexy girls in it. Don't worry, I would have done the same thing.

Round table is in Rodj's CQ next year - that's assuming anyone other then him can get into them by then

No one cares.

Minmatars are only allowed in if they're accompanied by a responsible adult.

I do. CCP mayhaps not, or not so you'd notice.



NEVER, go into rodj CQ, alternativly, never invite him to yours. Terrible things happen... :(

I do. CCP mayhaps not, or not so you'd notice.



NEVER, go into rodj CQ, alternativly, never invite him to yours. Terrible things happen... :(

You know if you mention beer there are going to be dev's.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly!

Can pirates and other terribads warp to you if your in a FW mission?

Since we have a new forum, let's move the old discussion over here.

Here's what's already been said.

I'm sure that CCP will be posting an update here very shortly.

Yoohoo -Devs??? Where are you???

Well, they can't find THIS thread, but they can find the one regarding the rumour that FW is being removed and lock it

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=48236#post48236

So when will a dev find THIS thread???

Somebody is clearly bumping the Faction Warfare thread, I approve.

Really? Who is that I wonder???

I suggest that everyone here support csms efforts to get more devs on "FIS." That is truly the root cause of the problem. No one showed up because no one is working on FW. Since FW is FIS, CCP says it's SOL.

I just can't imagine who it could be.

You???

You???

Not me. I would never gratuitously bump a thread in the forlorn hope that a dev might see it.

He was supposed to make a reply when he got home from Russia several months ago. One can only assume that he has been arrested for espionage and/or lewd behaviour and therefore stuck in Russia indefinitely .. because the alternative is that CCP are lying through their teeth, making empty promises left and right in the hopes of making us go away - and that cannot be :ccpawesome:

words.

What you fail to realise from this post, and others you've made, and probably over the last 3 months, is that CCP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Why are they continuing to leave this thread untouched? You remind me of Denidil or whatever his name is, flames everyone for their whining posts, then makes his own thread full of niceties and l33t speek, and guess what? They didn't reply to him either.

Faction Warfare doesn't attract new players, you can't sell nex items for faction warfare, so why would CCP care about it?

Actually it does, in the sense that when people join and have done the first few training arcs (and maybe the Sisters of Eve one too), some take up the offer to join the militia, get into PvP and stick around vs not having any idea what to do in Eve and quitting...

Faction Warfare doesn't attract new players, you can't sell nex items for faction warfare, so why would CCP care about it?

bumo

Some comments from CCP Guard are in this post.

OMG OMG OMG - after MONTHS of asking, a dev finally posted in this thread... Now, we just need the info on FW vs a link to CCP Guard's post that they are still working on the details and the FW community might start to be a little happier

Some more updates from CCP Manifest. Still not the solid information everyone is craving, but it should give some insight into the process, at the very least.

Well, I will be the first to acknowledge the responses, but I will also say that I hope the FW will continue to make their feelings known and make noise as we do want the attention given to FW that it deserves.

Bring on the results of the planning sessions so we know if we should be justly upset or happy...

A fair and very valid point. All I would personally ask is to keep the feedback in a civil and constructive vein.

Would it be too much to ask that FW can have input in the same way that Soundwave has asked for input into 0.0???

No, not too much. I will ask Soundwave if we can organize something along those lines, but I personally think it would be good to have a solid basis for discussion first (similar to the "0.0 design goals" blogs that started the discussion), and that would take time.

Thank you for the responses on FW. Even if you guys can't promise action quickly, it will be enough for many of us that had started to truly believe that it was an abandoned area.

PLEASE don't do the silent treatment/thread avoid regardless of which way things are going. No news is bad news as far as many players are concerned. Many of the players that were active and enjoyable to play with or against have unsubbed or gone idle as they have felt that 12months or so of silence indicated a complete lack of interest.

Just knowing that it is still a subject that has someone pushing it means that I won't be unsubbing alts so I can afford Perpetuum - although I will still keep a main there just in case Hilmar makes CCP bankrupt.

Just throw us some bones and we will make the soup.

There are a number of people who have ideas and have posted. However I think that we can agree the following are major topics of discussion

1) NPC balance
2) Plex spawning mechanics
3) Lack of consequences to sov in FW
4) Mission farming vs PvP (PvP is the best part of FW, but gets you no rewards...)
5) Lack of militia uniforms for WiS (ok, this one maybe not so important... though some people might like to have Corellian Bloodstripes or the equivilant)

Not sure we can do much about it, but 0.0 blobs in low sec is also an issue - e.g. PL in Amamake atm

There are a number of people who have ideas and have posted. However I think that we can agree the following are major topics of discussion

1) NPC balance
2) Plex spawning mechanics
3) Lack of consequences to sov in FW
4) Mission farming vs PvP (PvP is the best part of FW, but gets you no rewards...)
5) Lack of militia uniforms for WiS (ok, this one maybe not so important... though some people might like to have Corellian Bloodstripes or the equivilant)

Not sure we can do much about it, but 0.0 blobs in low sec is also an issue - e.g. PL in Amamake atm

[quote=Har Harrison]

I think when people say that fw is "broken" they are mainly refering to the occupancy plex mechanics. FW missions are working pretty well. (I actually think they are brillant and the model should be used for other low sec missions)

NPC balance could be improved I suppose but all the factions can run missions. Even if one factions missions are harder to run this can be made up for by giving each faction more items unique to their faction.

Here is a list of ideas that have been kicked around about occupancy plexing over the years that I wrote up as sort of a skeleton outline:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1564233&page=1#1


I strongly beleive that the most important thing for occupancy plexing is that it be an activity people can take some pride in being good at. In EVEthat almost always means pvp and not shooting npcs. IMO, the focus on fighting npcs in the current FW plexing mechanic was really the biggest downfall of the mechanic.

FW being broken isnt only referring to plexing. It also refers to 0.0 alliances (as well as pirate alliances) bringing in supers (that need desperately to be rebalanced and made more vulnerable in low sec) as a trump card (and hordes of their alliance corps) to annihilate any FW corp it can, preventing FW corps from engaging in FW against each other at all.

Also, preventing FW corps from forming alliances under the faction they serve that would better help balance the politics of these third parties who would interfere with FW in the warzone systems.

FW is broken. Fix it pls :)

More importantly allowing alliances into FW would be another way to increase the population, there are people in alliances out there that would join FW in a heartbeat if they didn't have to leave their alliance.

Next Fanfest, attending FW pilots should find a dev and orbit him endlessly until either he responds or we win occupancy of Iceland.

I play other games now. My subscription is a matter of whatever time is left on what I already paid for and it's out of nostalgia and hope that I remain active on the boards. Again, I don't want to leave but as with any perceived abusive relationship, there is a point where you just have to get out. I know many of my FW friends already have.

If you fix FW, it will go a long way towards me and others actually wanting to play the game again (give you money). I'll never buy a monocle or pair of pants, but I may buy another subscription one day if given the motivation.

I hope you would be so kind as to relay these thoughts and emotions along the line.

Well, just had a great roam with Amarr Militia - killed heaps for little lost - that is what FW is supposed to be about ppl!!!!

Tsk, Tsk .. Amarr does not roam, we are not animals you know. We Patrol!

FW being broken isnt only referring to plexing. It also refers to 0.0 alliances (as well as pirate alliances) bringing in supers (that need desperately to be rebalanced and made more vulnerable in low sec) as a trump card (and hordes of their alliance corps) to annihilate any FW corp it can, preventing FW corps from engaging in FW against each other at all.

Also, preventing FW corps from forming alliances under the faction they serve that would better help balance the politics of these third parties who would interfere with FW in the warzone systems.

FW is broken. Fix it pls :)

Over two years ago there was Dev who made a pretty damn good suggestion that would allow alliances to participate as full members of the militias: To be a member the alliance must forfeit all sovereignty.

It is so damn simple but has such impact that the mumbling about "why can't we join!?!" went away rather abruptly. With no fall-back plan or safe hidey hole/cash-cow it seems the support for it vanished.

Supers in low-sec (includes FW) is solved by making their immunity dependent on sovereignty, outside ones own they lose immunity.
Fits perfectly with supers supposedly being alliance assets and when combined with whatever nerf they are slated for , anything but proper super blobs would be very vulnerable to FW fleets

Another nice post Hirana....

As for the super caps I'm not sure if that would give the party defending sov too much of an advantage...

Sure the lone super can be bumped for 5-10 minutes until a HIC can be brought to bear but with more than one that becomes impractical.

And the obligatory: "This is not a bump!"

No, not too much. I will ask Soundwave if we can organize something along those lines, but I personally think it would be good to have a solid basis for discussion first (similar to the "0.0 design goals" blogs that started the discussion), and that would take time.

Even then they just log off and disappear after 10-15 minutes, which happened in one of our fleets when we had an Aeon under our guns. wtf

Post downtime plexing fleets are awesome, done in combat capable ships and both sides generally willing to engage unless there is a large number discrepancy (or small depending on FC ).

Perhaps we could club together and hire a lawyer to get him released?

...Also, spawning mechanics? Surely this is a quick fix? And if any devs want a laugh, please change it for a few weeks so when sasawong logs on all plexes disappear.

Also, spawning mechanics? Surely this is a quick fix? And if any devs want a laugh, please change it for a few weeks so when sasawong logs on all plexes disappear.

PS: What's up with the loss of love for the great General Sasa? His fanaticism finally taking its toll?

Next fanfest! FW panel in the main hall with all the devs! Hell make FW the theme of the fanfest with different corners and missions and plexes (bars) for every faction. YEAH BEER!

I've been flying with some plexing fleets recently - good fun with frigs and cruisers etc... If we could get some more people into the fleets, it would be great...

Shame the spawnign mechaincs make it harder for the late night guys....

I still think we need some sort of T1 minor plex for our new pilots to allow them to experience plexing without having a dram or faction frig land on them. Minor plexes were originally great pvp, but thrashers started to take over, and then with the easy mission isk they are now full of expensive ships.

Maybe a scale

T1 frig plexes (additional restrictions so high ranks can't enter i.e sasa etc who will **** any newer players)
T1 Dessies down
Minor plexes - as current
And then the same for med plexes. .

Maybe restrict majors to bc up so it takes a group effort rather than speed tanking.

This is pretty much where my antagonist Mr.Cearain and I differ, he believes that removing NPCs makes plexes into PvP havens whereas I believe the spawning of said plexing will have much greater effect.
I would love for meaningful (ie. not in ass-end of cluster) plexes throughout the day and thus the combat gangs rather than just in the hours after DT with the rest of the day filled with run-away frigates closing plexes in the hopes of moving them to an 'targeted' system.

Bottomline: The plexes, with their size restrictions, are what fosters the memorable fights .. there are good fights elsewhere but they tend to be generic blob slug-outs where the individual is just a cog in a machine (read: boring!)....

I believe that removing npcs *and* immediately notifying the militias when a plex is entered will make plexes pvp havens.

Of course, I *also* think CCP should not have more plexes spawn right after downtime. It is not "either or." CCP should do both.

The rest I, not surprisingly, agree with you.

Why the attachment to npcs? Let the miltias know when plexes are entered and decide for themselves if they want to fight for occupancy. If they don't want to send pvp ships to fight for it they will lose it. ItGÇÖs that simple.


In the meantime I think you will find huge numbers of players who will love being told where other solo or small gangs are sitting waiting for some pew pew. There will finally be a mechanic for pvp that doesn't amount to forming the biggest blob.

Since the notifications of plexes being entered will made to everyone in the militias you never know how many people will show up. (you would know of the size restrictions of the plex though) It would be mayhem like eve never saw.

Trying to balance the npcs and all that, is a waste of time for the devs. NPCs on the whole discourage pvp.

Hmm, I have never been hugely discouraged by the Amarr NPCs. Maybe a matter of balancing them so one faction doesn't have overpowered NPC assistance.

I don't like the idea of notifying the militia when a plex has opened. My immediate thoughts are that people will form gank squads to burn to any open plexes and this will make solo pvp/plex hunting even harder.

No disrespect to all three of you amarr that do try for fair fights, but I can't even get a fight in a frigate anymore even against the odds without it turning out to be a trap - not even frigs v frigs, but bc and all sorts waiting for me to aggress.

"I am here" beacons will mean that if someone comes into your plex, it is almost certain they already have someone(many) waiting on the other side of the gate.

I think it is much better to make people hunt plexers - pvp should be the reward for active players, not people that wait in station for an alert. It would get more people out and travelling and allow others that don't plex to chase or be chased.

Plexes used to be havens for pvp, but were killed off for two reasons really.

People realized there were no reasons to do them
Those that continue to do them are all flying expensive faction ships which make it difficult for people to compete.

If people want a big plex fight, they will get it, you can't conceal the build up of people into the area

[quote=Bengal Bob]

If faction war plexing had to do with small scale pvp instead of pve people might actually value those medals and fight for occupancy.

You make some interesting points in your posts, just a side note...

I would be annoyed by the number of mails informing me of people warping into the hordes of plexes throughout the warzone.. some more than once as they get kicked out and return.

On the quote above, I dont think PvP alone is an incentive to take or hold occupancy. We all can get that without plexing, even if against a third party (someone not in any militia).

Intrepid pilots of New Eden!

Over the past days and weeks, CCP has been doing extensive and intense introspection and revitalization. The result of this is a refocusing and reprioritization on a scale unheard of within our company.

These are indeed defining times.

TorfiGÇÖs most recent dev blog provides some indication of whatGÇÖs to come. We have decided, to focus our collective efforts on the areas you have asked us to focus on.

We will reveal more over the coming weeks. As certain details are prone to change, we want to make sure we have absolutely concrete information to give you. YouGÇÖve often told us that we promise too much and deliver too little, and this time we want to be certain that doesnGÇÖt happen. We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion.

Watch this space.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online

I wonder if the latest dev blog will mean resources for FW???

We are after the same goal here.


If plexes are constantly being run throughout the 4 regions each front has, then the militias that refuse to split up their blobs will lose occupancy.

Consider this: Militia A and militia B both have 30 active pilots doing plexing. Militia A insists on keeping all of its pilots together in a large blob all doing one plex. Miltia B spreads their pilots out into 30 different systems each one doing a plex. ItGÇÖs easy to see that Militia B will have allot more plexes captured.

Even on a smaller scale this is true. If militia A must send 2 pilots to dislodge every single pilot from militia B then they better have at least 2xs as many pilots or they will not win the occupancy war.

If the plexing mechanic was really done right militias would use the minimum number necessary to take each plex.

People will also be encouraged to go plexing if there was an actual point to holding occupancy.

Hmmm, brain just farted --->

Militia wars have never in the history of mankind been about taking and holding land, because it can by definition not be done against an organized/superior entity.

Attrition, Attrition, Attrition. Kill so many enemies, destroy all his stuff and make his life unbearable in general until he collapses/withdraws on his own ..

Where FW is concerned this translates into:
- Denying access to station services (docking permits will never be revoked for NPC stations),
- Removal/restriction of income sources (missions go to 1 predefined system per constellation unless a system in the constellation is captured for instance).
- Decreased performance while operating on enemy militia turf (crude simulation of all the invaders who have died in bogs, swamps and forests throughout history).
- Etc.

PS: Sorry, my brain always develops gas when this thread slips to page 2+ for some unknown reason!

Don't you think this would lead to everyone joining winning side? If I can join any militia I want why would I join one that has decreased performce, removed and/or restricted of income, and is denied station services?

Nahh. The "joining the winning side" issue is hypothetically a concern for ANY advantage brought to either militia for winning systems, but that hasn't stopped "bring meaning to sov" from being the #1 demand of all of us who engage in Faction Warfare and desire some improvements.

It all boils down to good fights, after all. What is the fun in being blue to everyone? No fun for those of us that pew. Same with militia, its not fun when everyone is purple. In a game like Eve - being the underdog means more gameplay and pvp opportunities, so it self-balances. If you talk to many FW pilots, I think the consensus is that it sucks when your side has the highest activity level, because it means less targets to shoot when the opposing team is too intimidated to undock and roam. ....

How would frigates and cruiser fair if they were pwned by station guns in a hostile system?

I agree this acts as a counter balance for several pilots. In fact when I was in rvb I switched back and forth from red and blue several times for this very reason.

But I think there are several reasons to think this "pile on the winning team" mentality will have an effect:

1) it already happened even when there were no rewards. Around the time Caldari "won faction war" gallente had very few active pilots.
2)In FW its not quite as easy to switch sides as in rvb. You will be considered a spy, you have to move your stuff through low sec etc. It sucks to no longer fly with your friends and developing some sort of reasonable pretend hatred of the enemy makes the game more fun.
3)Role players won't change
4) Those new to pvp will likely want to be on the winning side not on the underdog side. Then all the reasons not to switch sides will kick in.
5) as far as income: I know players that explicitly said they went to caldari because the missions are easier. I know a player who missioned allot who went to minmatar (which also has easier missions than amarr). These players also pvp, its not the case that they just run missions. They figured if they prefer to pvp instead of missioning why join a faction where I have to mission longer to get the same isk. I can't (and don't) fault them.
6) if your talking about things that actually tip pvp battles one way or another like increased damage or resists or gate guns then I wouldn't do that, myself. If your just talking station guns at the enemy militias station then that would be fine and probably good by me.

That said I think if ccp did some things fw could be somewhat self balancing:
1) increased the number of fw lp items that are unique to each faction.
2) made the items that are unique to each faction worth something. (e.g. amarr plates should have lower fittings than meta 4 gallente plates should have the same fittings as meta 4)
3) require that plexes be run in order to get or cash in on the lps.

If you do not have number 3 then you will just ahve people farming the missions and not running plexes. But if they had to run plexes in order to cash in on the lp . Either by having only the plexes award lp or by having the plexes award something else you need to get the unique items. For example maybe the faction specific items required a different type of lp that you could only get by running plexes. Then the items would go up in value and economics would help balance things.

This would need to be tweaked over time. Even iterated on. But they could do something like that.

Moreover I think some effects from faction occupancy wouldn't directly impact the fw participants that much. Like a small percent chance npc stations will switching from an Amarr corp to a Minmatar corp if the minmatar take occupancy of the system.

.. agree this acts as a counter balance for several pilots...

That said I think if ccp did some things fw could be somewhat self balancing:...

The pile-up on Caldari never actually happened you know, it merely looked that way because the Gallente was depopulated but the people leaving left FW entirely. The rest is/was down to normal fluctuations.

1. Caldari had a huge influx at the start due to the insane money making potential from COSMOS items becoming easily accessible through FW.
The standings grind needed for said COSMOS items was one of the reasons why Caldari "won". They managed to convince everyone that they might as well help plex rather than grind missions so their plexers outnumbered the frogs by a huge margin.
2. Not seeing how that relates to the pile-on effect, seems to be the opposite. But some good-hearted animosity is very much key if living in the rat infested trenches.
3. We do, just not quickly like our ADHD afflicted non-RP meatshields .. muhahahaha
4. Those new to PvP may well join what looks like the "winning side", but they are promptly eaten alive by the experienced PvP'ers who joined the under-dog side for the challenge .. door swings both ways
5. NPC balance or lack thereof had by far the biggest effect on the apparent pile-on of the Caldari. It has been neutered somewhat with the agent changes though as one can now almost pick-and-choose mission and location due to all purveyors being the same.
Would be super sweet, like rainbow farting unicorns sweet, if there were missions designed for small gangs similar to Incursions as PvP'ers who has a legitimate and often urgent need for cash generally function best with wing-men.
6. Sounds very good on paper, and would serve to make the militia stations the natural bases for the respective militia's. But as any pirate will tell you, sentries are not to be feared, with just a handful of people the damage they do is diluted to a point where even local tanking is enough..

I suggested a solution to the LP-for-plex conundrum a while that nimbly avoids afk-frig farming:
- Closing a plex awards a certain amount of LP that are put into escrow (think Incursion LP).
- Mission LP awards draws from this escrow can never exceed what is available. If pool is empty a mission only pays out half (or something like that).
Straight LP for closing plexes would make a complete redesign of the things mandatory to prevent farming and would most likely have to include your hated plex NPCs to help with this .. just sayin'

As for stations suddenly switching sides: CCP would need to RP it like mad to justify such a thing as they are merely satellite offices of multi-national corporations, but to have corporations that employ 100s of millions pull up stakes just because something as irrelevant as occupancy flips (which happens a lot in some systems!) makes no sense.

You go a long way towards preventing the snowball effect if you make it progressively harder to capture systems. The first enemy system is easy to take and hold. The tenth less so. The thirtieth almost impossible.

Factional warfare needs to be fixed

According to Zulu's winter expansion list, a FW iteration is coming soon.

No, really.

Stop laughing, it actually says it right here.

Stay tuned!

I want to make it clear that this is not a final list. As we go through design and implementation phases some things may require more work than initially expected and others may not hold water in the design phase and therefore may not make it into this particular expansion.

According to Zulu's winter expansion list, a FW iteration is coming soon.

No, really.

Stop laughing, it actually says it right here.

Stay tuned!

[quote=Shaalira D'arc]We will see. Im pulling for CCP to do what is right and keep peoples interest in FW. It is a great place for ppl to learn PvP (solo and gang) and leadership even if they have aspirations of moving on to other things like 0.0, etc.

I agree with everything you say but this last bit.

IMO FW should stand on its own in this sandbox. New players can join a null sec corp and learn to blob just fine now. FW does not need to be a stepping stone to that.

Instead FW should be a mechanic in eve that provides frequent quality small scale pvp. If it did that I bet allot of players would "move on" from null sec to fw. Especially when they realize they need to prioritize real life yet still want to have fun pvping in eve.

...Of course, I do hope it does hit us in winter, really. And if not then some time close after.

..IMO FW should stand on its own in this sandbox...

And how much do you think it will be worth, considering that the current implementation took a full expansion (+cycle) to put together and practically every facet of our little universe needs to be redone?
CCP has not made any strides to even discuss possible FW changes internally according to a Dev a few months back, since it was barely a louse on a hair on the ass-end of their priority list. Do you really believe that FW will be better off with whatever they can cook up in less than a week, which is probably what is left when they are done fulfilling all their other Winter promises ..

There is no "fix" to FW. It is so fundamentally flawed that it will remain on life-support without some major surgery.

Screw the FW centric thinking Low-sec as a whole should be the 'unique' partition of the sandbox, driven by PvP and YarrRP, FW can then fit neatly into this unique part of the sandbox as the empires fight for supremacy of the wilderness between borders.

And how much do you think it will be worth, considering that the current implementation took a full expansion (+cycle) to put together and practically every facet of our little universe needs to be redone?
CCP has not made any strides to even discuss possible FW changes internally according to a Dev a few months back, since it was barely a louse on a hair on the ass-end of their priority list. Do you really believe that FW will be better off with whatever they can cook up in less than a week, which is probably what is left when they are done fulfilling all their other Winter promises ..

[
Screw the FW centric thinking Low-sec as a whole should be the 'unique' partition of the sandbox, driven by PvP and YarrRP, FW can then fit neatly into this unique part of the sandbox as the empires fight for supremacy of the wilderness between borders.

Yeah, you are right. It should be in its own sandbox, to some degree leastways.

I think it depends on what some folks mean by 'small scale' pvp. Some of the pvp blobbs I have seen in FW are large, 50+ man fleets and we have seen fleets of well over 100+ ppl (a while ago tho). I've been in a couple fleets with nearly 150 members little more than a year and a half ago. During POS takedowns the numbers can go up (tho recent months there has been a sharp decline in the fleet sizes). Third party involvement inflates this too. I'd call a lot of these fleets medium to large scale gang warfare.

I dont think CCP can regulate the size of a fleet in FW to keep it 'small scale' since that definition is relative and people shouldnt be limited to fleet size to keep the scale 'small'. One man's small scale may mean 5 people whereas another may mean 50+..

I think we agree on this.

If they fixed fw plexing then there would be allot more small scale combat. The plexes do not allow ships of various sizes in. So it tends to make it so there are not large blobs.

The reason you tend to see only see fw pilots in large blobs is because the plexing mechanic is broken. So with nothing to do people tend to just form a large blob and roam around. Of course there will still be blobbed after the plexing is fixed. But you will also have allot more small scale pvp too. Right now you get very little of that in fw or really anywhere in eve.

There is such a thread located in the "Features and Ideas" section, where it won't be buried intensely like things are in "General Discussion".

So far it looks like people are sticking to submitting write-ups of their vision of FW, which is nice because although back-and-forth discussion is great, it can result in an extremely cluttered thread. So, do as you please, but consider that it may be more effective to copy this write-up format when posting.

Hope this is helpful, here it be:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18059

I honestly hate the idea of plexes, unless they are generated by players who decide to attack a certain system and thus setup a plex/forward command bases to start the invasion/start to take the system.

Having random plexes spawn about to orbit while they are capturing the flag with an npc or two present is of 0 interest to me. Purpose, focus and player management is.

I still think we need some sort of T1 minor plex for our new pilots to allow them to experience plexing without having a dram or faction frig land on them. Minor plexes were originally great pvp, but thrashers started to take over, and then with the easy mission isk they are now full of expensive ships.

Maybe a scale

T1 frig plexes (additional restrictions so high ranks can't enter i.e sasa etc who will **** any newer players)
T1 Dessies down
Minor plexes - as current
And then the same for med plexes.

Maybe restrict majors to bc up so it takes a group effort rather than speed tanking.

I believe that removing npcs *and* immediately notifying the militias when a plex is entered will make plexes pvp havens.

Of course, I *also* think CCP should not have more plexes spawn right after downtime. It is not "either or." CCP should do both.

The rest I, not surprisingly, agree with you.

Why the attachment to npcs? Let the miltias know when plexes are entered and decide for themselves if they want to fight for occupancy.

I honestly hate the idea of plexes, unless they are generated by players who decide to attack a certain system and thus setup a plex/forward command bases to start the invasion/start to take the system.

And how much do you think it will be worth, considering that the current implementation took a full expansion (+cycle) to put together and practically every facet of our little universe needs to be redone?
CCP has not made any strides to even discuss possible FW changes internally according to a Dev a few months back, since it was barely a louse on a hair on the ass-end of their priority list. Do you really believe that FW will be better off with whatever they can cook up in less than a week, which is probably what is left when they are done fulfilling all their other Winter promises ..

So it should be possible to do something that triggers an incursion-type event in system X?

I am intrigued by your idea, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Making FW more 'occupancy' focused gives meaning to plexing. Random spawns is a lazy mechanic that lends to no military strategy at all on the part of the player.

Time for out of the box crackpot idea here so bear with me...

FW should be occupancy focused giving benefits 'of some kind' to the occupying militia (as I mentioned before perhaps restrictions on docking at the occupying racial stations and those stations firing on enemies camping it).

Capturing plexes should be strategically thought out, sought after and fought for by the players. What could happen here is that corps can choose which systems to assault up to a certain number (Im thinking 1) per corp. When said system is chosen, it shows up on the player map (similar to number of ships killed in system, etc options) or faction warfar window, commonly brought up in station. It can show as being under assault (even perhaps which corp has chosen to assault it to let people prioritise the threat of the enemy by known reputation and activity) giving players an idea of what systems they should be focusing on for defense or attack. Type of plexes turn up in order and a certain number allowed per day in chosen system until the system is turned.

Plexing can still have NPC's for defense and ranked as Bob suggested to allow new players to have a chance. NPC drops, LP, faction standings and rank awards remaining the same, except of turning a system. Shooting a bunker and turning a system should also carry with it greater benefits (owing towards faction standing, LP and rank) than plexing as it is the fulfillment of a militia members ultimate duty that builds on everyday plexing.

Third party involvement should be nerfed, ie make supers more vulnerable in low sec. Restrict non-milita members from entering militia plexes. Keep pirates pirating and militia members carrying out militia oriented duties. Allow alliances to join or be formed in militia under the banner of the government they choose to serve to balance out pirate alliances that are active in the FW areas camping gates etc. *cough*AMAMAKE** which prevent new players from even getting to a militia fight or plex.

erm.... stepping out on a limb with crackpot idea. maybe more to come, but just some unformed thoughts here. Im sure it will bring some more life to the thread leastways. Enjoy!

There is such a thread located in the "Features and Ideas" section, where it won't be buried intensely like things are in "General Discussion".

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18059

Woot - FW has gotten a boost (kind of...) - aggro log off mechanics + SC changes mean people will have to be more careful hot dropping FW members in low sec!!!!

Still waiting for patch notes - dev blog would be nice even though it is just words not action.

Winter is coming - need a dev blog CCP!!!

This needs a BUMP - any word on the FW improvements CCP???

Just wanted to pop in quickly and say that we haven't forgotten about this thread. Can't give any ETA on the solid news right now but we'll keep you up to date with any developments.

Thanks Spitfire - by now I'm sure you understand that the FW crowd is a prickly one - years of not being responded to has hardened everyone a bit. Hence, the eggheads who immediately cry foul when a Dev posts a comment and doesnt immediately release a full dev blog and answer to every question within whatever they decide is a reasonable timeframe, which is apparently a matter of hours, not days.

Guess time really blurs with all that missioning?

And I think the general consensus is that 2 years is not a reasonable timeframe. Most of us are far more interested in FW pvp and making plexes interesting than in missions.

The only reason that CCP is even considering working on FW again is due to pressure being put on them by the community, why should we ease up now? Appeasement is unlikely to bring rewards to us, we are just the golden geese and will only be thrown scraps to shut us up.

The very least that CCP could do is collate the many suggested improvements, decide what they can do quickly and then post them up for discussion/voting.

No one is expecting FW to be completely overhauled, but we would at least like some information as to what is being considered by CCP. The current suggestion of removing Navies from high sec is clearly not great, and got very little support.

Apart from that we have been told AGAIN we haven't been forgotten. Well, **** me I don't find that reassuring because I have been hearing it for two years. We haven't been forgotten, just ignored - after all, this thread started because they couldn't be bothered to turn up to discuss FW at the Fanfest.

So forgive me and the other FW pvpers if we want to keep this evidence of customer dissatisfaction and poor service from CCP right on the front page for all potential new customers to see, as well as all the guys that have moved on to other games.

CCP has shown us that they will not engage with the community, or continue to develop EVE unless put under massive pressure. I for one will continue to do so until I see some action.

Emotions are raw my ass .. we have been stood up at the prom so many times that all emotions are long gone, replaced with searing hatred and Bond villain level vengeance scheming ..

Remember that we "eggheads" cried foul after they ditched us at Fanfest, then promising us some make-up sex (FW blog) only to stand us up on that as well. CCP doesn't exactly have the best reputation in FW land, since history has shown that if multiple scenarios can be envisioned they will deploy the absolute worst and throw in extra crispy bugs just for fun ..

Winter patch will consist of high-sec NPCs being removed and the game-breaking bug will be that they spawn along with Concord only to linger and shoot everyone on sight regardless of actions/standings .. mark my words!

....

...The one thing that people in FW...

I am sorry if some of these Idea's are redundant and have been posted several times before in this thread, reading the whole Thread was taking to long so i just skipped to the end. I am a member of a Corp in Caldari Faction Warfare and have been for about 8 months. I am 9 months old so that should say something about the attraction of FW to new players.

Welcome to the discussion, Sim!! I wanted to take a moment and point out to yourself and others that repeating ideas is just fine. The stronger message we send that there is a concrete and generally agreed-upon list of fixes that are doable for Winter Expansion, the better. I'd be more than happy if another dozen FW pilots all jumped on and spoke their minds too, the fixes that keep overlapping should be the ones CCP is taking notes on and hopefully implementing in some fashion.

All we can do is keep speaking our minds, especially if our ideas overlap. Hopefully a CCP representative can confirm or deny soon whether FW iterations are indeed in the pipeline for FW. All we've heard so far is "we're listening", We need to hear "we're acting upon this". (or acting upon SOMETHING.)

That's the plan, yes. CCP Soundwave has been posting some ideas in this thread;

CCP Soundwave has been posting some ideas in this thread

I'm sorry Spitfire, but wanting to remove faction NPCs from high-sec does not count as "some ideas"

Hey - my thread is still here...

Indeed it is :) I've stickied it on the "Moving Forward" discussion thread as well... let me know if you spot any other threads / resources to add to the compilation.