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Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.19 03:01:00 - [631] Already removing that requirement for the ships.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.19 16:58:00 - [632] Edited by: DeltaPhalanx on 19/12/2008 16:58:31 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Right my fear though is that all the Tsunami would be used for is a sniper platform if it was moved into the Theater Command ship role and no one would ever use it for the position it was designed for. Propose an alternative to the second range bonus. And what is preveting pilots from fitting blasters instead of rails? I think you have somewhat misunderstood my suggestion; I haven't suggested flipping the fitting suggestions around, just flipping the role, with minor tweaks to the fittings. Keep the Tsunami as a missile boat and the Bastion a hybrid platform, but change their respective designations with alterations to your suggested role bonuses to reflect the change. Thus you would have the Tsunami retaining its launcher hardpoints and trading the multiple ganglink bonus for the ECCM / RECCM bonus, and the Bastion would likewise lose the ECCM / RECCM bonus but gain the ability to concurrently run two ganglinks. With this in mind you could withdraw the second range bonus on the Bastion in favour of the Flagship bonus to ganglinks, and add a second missile bonus to the Tsunami, perhaps a Kinetic missile damage bonus as is found on the Drake or the Nighthawk. As to what prevents Caldari pilots from mounting blasters it's quite simple, Caldari boats have neither speed nor agility. In quoting the words I've read in several bios "Caldari Pilot: 'I don't need a fast ship, I can kill you from here.'" Amarr pilots such as yourself cover the middle ground, Gallente and Minmatar cover the short, and Caldari, well, we like to shoot you from somewhere that you can't touch us; granted we may only be scrating your paint, but you've got a long slow crawl to reach us
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.19 19:58:00 - [633] Fair enough, ill switch the setups and see what they look like.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:18:00 - [634] AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:20:00 - [635] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:21:00 - [636] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:23:00 - [637] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II -> Drone Interfacing V --> Drones V
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.21 22:36:00 - [638] These are good but I still don't like the idea of a ship that isn't a dedicated drone carrier requiring drone skills to fly.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.21 23:36:00 - [639] I can understand that position. But I want to keep the requirements uniform.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.22 21:49:00 - [640] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I can understand that position. But I want to keep the requirements uniform. So why not gunnery 5 and missile launcher operation 5 as well?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.23 01:59:00 - [641] I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.23 03:46:00 - [642] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I'm not sure what you mean by that. You can't make someone train a specific set of a specific type of weapon for a ship that does not use those. If you want a weapon requisite, it needs to be for the SHIP not the class. The class is Generic between races, while ship weapon types are obviously not. Bottom line. Either drop the weapon requisites all together or make the drone ships require drones, missile ships missiles etc...
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:38:00 - [643] If you're gonna give the Lahar a falloff bonus, it has to be fast enough to actually use autocannons. Either give it a speed similar or greater to the Athena, or give it a tracking bonus, because if you keep it that slow no sane pilot would actually fit autos to it. And I'll bet you most blaster-bs pilots would prefer a tracking bonus on the Athena rather than a falloff too. Blasters have crap falloff, and I can't think many people would fit the kind of do-or-die neutron setup that can actually take advantage of it on a 750m+ t2 bs. The thron already outdamages the hyperion in all non-ideal (read: actual) combat situation, thanks to tracking; a falloff bonus after lowering base damage is adding insult to injury. Lets be honest here: unless you have greatly superior falloff range and speed like a vaga does compared to a deimos, falloff bonuses are crap. ... and I really think they should boost T2 plate HP.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:56:00 - [644] Okay so i looked over the ship and looked over the Nighthawk and the Golem. They both require Gunnery II to fly. That being the prerequisite for the Weapons Upgrade and the Advanced weapons upgrade. Its no so much a bonus to guns. Both the Golem and the Nighthawk are missile boats and they both require the skill gunnery. Simply put its so you can get to weapon upgrades and adv weapon upgrades. Those skills give a bonus to all weapons systems. So your missiles will be much easier to fit. So other then that I'm not sure what gunnery bonuses you are looking at. Im not very good at understanding the concepts behind the minmatar design conventions, as in how they are generaly made and given bonuses. The falloff was the base bonus the command ships so i figured it would be a simple transplant. What are the general bonuses you would see on a ship like the Lahar?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.12.25 00:29:00 - [645] So far the ships seemed very well prenerfed to prevent overpowering any plans to show potential boosts if they become nessecary? Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Dyaven The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.12.25 01:11:00 - [646] Just noticed a little quirk in the Gallente ships, the CreoDron ship gets a Launcher point but the Roden Shipyards doesn't. Seems off to me.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 02:59:00 - [647] Yah that has been pointed out but which would you rather have, a Hyperion with a full complement of turrets or one with 7 turrets and a missile launcher and one with 7 turrets and no missile launcher?
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 06:39:00 - [648] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Okay so i looked over the ship and looked over the Nighthawk and the Golem. They both require Gunnery II to fly. That being the prerequisite for the Weapons Upgrade and the Advanced weapons upgrade. Its no so much a bonus to guns. Both the Golem and the Nighthawk are missile boats and they both require the skill gunnery. Simply put its so you can get to weapon upgrades and adv weapon upgrades. Those skills give a bonus to all weapons systems. So your missiles will be much easier to fit. So other then that I'm not sure what gunnery bonuses you are looking at. You can NOT compare 2 hours of skill training for Gunnery II to 35 DAYS of training to get Drone interfacing V.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:55:00 - [649] I am not, I am comparing 2 hours for Gunnery, 9 days for Weapons Upgrade V, 33 Days for Advanced Weapons Upgrade V. Verses 5 Days for Drones V, and 35 days for Drone Interfacing V. so its 42 Days verses 20 Days. Depending on where you have your attributes set for skilling, these numbers can change drasticly. But i am asuming that all your skills are about even. I again fail to see what the problem is.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:50:00 - [650] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I am not, I am comparing 2 hours for Gunnery, 9 days for Weapons Upgrade V, 33 Days for Advanced Weapons Upgrade V. Verses 5 Days for Drones V, and 35 days for Drone Interfacing V. so its 42 Days verses 20 Days. Depending on where you have your attributes set for skilling, these numbers can change drasticly. But i am asuming that all your skills are about even. I again fail to see what the problem is. Because Drone Interfacing V is almost worthless to the Caldari Ship. It gives a huge bonus to the Gallente. It's unbalanced.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:25:00 - [651] So if this is the case then why is it required for Caldari Carriers and Mother Ships? The Theater Command Ships are set up in such a way as to push you toward carriers. And the idea of changing one skill set on specific ship is completely unheard of in EVE. Changing that skill set means that all the other pilots that trained for the other versions of the class could fly evry other version as soon as they get the racial battleship skill to 5, except the Caldari Theater Command Ship. And likewise, anyone who skilled only for the Caldari Theater Command Ship will not be able to fly any of the other theater command ships until he/she skills up Drones V and Drone Interfacing V. What I'm saying is that it makes little sence to change the skill set with the evidence you have given me. You have a 50m^3 drone bay and that is more then enough to throw a full wing of medium combat drones or a full wing of medium shield rep drones. And most other ships in the class use drones as suplimetary damage. Only the Gallente drone boat is using them for its primary damage source. And even then the Caldari ship can easily out range and out gun 5 drones.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 19:47:00 - [652] Edited by: Gantor Tesla on 25/12/2008 19:47:56 Originally by: Balor Haliquin So if this is the case then why is it required for Caldari Carriers and Mother Ships? BECAUSE THOSE ARE DRONE BOATS. Originally by: Balor Haliquin The Theater Command Ships are set up in such a way as to push you toward carriers. If this were true they would all have the Dominix's drone bay and drone bonuses. The Theater SKILLS set you up for carrier, but the SHIP does not. Originally by: Balor Haliquin And the idea of changing one skill set on specific ship is completely unheard of in EVE. Changing that skill set means that all the other pilots that trained for the other versions of the class could fly evry other version as soon as they get the racial battleship skill to 5, except the Caldari Theater Command Ship. And likewise, anyone who skilled only for the Caldari Theater Command Ship will not be able to fly any of the other theater command ships until he/she skills up Drones V and Drone Interfacing V. You're missing the point. I want you to remove it from ALL the ships. NOT just the Caldari. Originally by: Balor Haliquin What I'm saying is that it makes little sence to change the skill set with the evidence you have given me. You have a 50m^3 drone bay and that is more then enough to throw a full wing of medium combat drones or a full wing of medium shield rep drones. And is it not worth 35 days of training fro 5 med drones which do 120 dps ish and with NO back up drones on you. Originally by: Balor Haliquin And most other ships in the class use drones as suplimetary damage. Only the Gallente drone boat is using them for its primary damage source. And even then the Caldari ship can easily out range and out gun 5 drones. Which is my point. The Gallente Ship benefits FAR more from this skill requirement than any other race. Other than "preparing us for Carriers" there is NO reason for this skill. I'd rather see a Nav V and Warp drive op V requirement, as those set you up for all caps, but that doesn't make much sense as a requirement either.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:15:00 - [653] Okay now that i have an idea of what you are getting at. The idea with the Theater command ship is that it is a step toward the carrier. Do you have any good ideas on how to do this. The issue being is that the Theater Command ships are right now taking a little less time to train for then the Frontline Command Ships. But the skills can not be just some arbitrary things, i would like them to move the character toward carriers.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:25:00 - [654] Edited by: Gantor Tesla on 25/12/2008 21:25:52 Originally by: Balor Haliquin Okay now that i have an idea of what you are getting at. The idea with the Theater command ship is that it is a step toward the carrier. Do you have any good ideas on how to do this. The issue being is that the Theater Command ships are right now taking a little less time to train for then the Frontline Command Ships. But the skills can not be just some arbitrary things, i would like them to move the character toward carriers. Well I'd do it like this. I'll only include what I would change and I'd do this to all the Theater CS. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to Drone Hit Points and Damage range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level, 50% bonus to Large Energy and Shield transfer range per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 3 warfare link modules simultaneously, 100% bonus to Drone control range Fitting slots: 4 high / 8 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Hard points: 0 Turret / 0 Launcher Drone Bay: 500m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:42:00 - [655] Uhm, no. There is no presidence for this kind of ship for the Caldari. I was asking more for a set of skills that would prevent what you pointed out as being somewhat useless skills. Not to mention that you are turning the ship into a command and logostics ship. Which for a capital ship is fine but not for sub capitals.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:02:00 - [656] for sub capitals substantial penalties should apply
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:13:00 - [657] Originally by: Balor Haliquin Uhm, no. There is no presidence for this kind of ship for the Caldari. I was asking more for a set of skills that would prevent what you pointed out as being somewhat useless skills. Not to mention that you are turning the ship into a command and logostics ship. Which for a capital ship is fine but not for sub capitals. No precedence? Those stats are all derived from the Chimera. Look it up. Do you even fly cap ships? You seem to not know a lot about them. You have this idea in your head of what you want these ships to be and you're being very rigid about it. I'm not going to discuss this any further as you're being too closed mined about this. In the end, it's CCP that gets the final word, so you can make as many posts as you want, but CCP is going to decide, not you.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.26 00:41:00 - [658] As I said there is no presidence I meant for sub capital ships. Taking the bonuses from the carrier and putting them onto a sub capital ship does not make a good ship. The issue you have with sub capital ships is that you have a very limited fitting and module space to do what you want. With capitals, especially carriers, you have a lot more freedom. These ships are designed and have been focused on the command and control area of the fleet. They are not logistics ships, they are not super combat ships, they are not super high end electronics warfare ships. They are simply command and control ships. I put the added concept of using their skill tree to get very close to the skills needed for capital ships, specificaly dreads and carriers. If CCP decides to take the designs or not is completely up to CCP. I agree with that. But if there was no hope of getting ideas into a game then why bother having a features and ideas section to the forums to begin with? I happen to think that the idea is a good one and a sound concept. So do a lot of other people who have put in their ideas and concepts for the ships. Im trying to get what you are talking about when it comes to your concept and trying to relate my concept to you. I'm sorry if the ideas and concepts used to make the ships what they are now do not work with what you feel the ships should be. But ill be honest you had me thinking that your complaint was about caldari ships alone and you wanted only that group changed to fit a caldari only setup. And that is something i could not see happening. So is you issue with the Theater Command Ship's skill requirements or with how the Theater Command ships are set up as far as stats and bonuses?
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2008.12.26 02:19:00 - [659] Originally by: Balor Haliquin As I said there is no presidence I meant for sub capital ships. Taking the bonuses from the carrier and putting them onto a sub capital ship does not make a good ship. The issue you have with sub capital ships is that you have a very limited fitting and module space to do what you want. With capitals, especially carriers, you have a lot more freedom. These ships are designed and have been focused on the command and control area of the fleet. They are not logistics ships, they are not super combat ships, they are not super high end electronics warfare ships. They are simply command and control ships. I put the added concept of using their skill tree to get very close to the skills needed for capital ships, specificaly dreads and carriers. If CCP decides to take the designs or not is completely up to CCP. I agree with that. But if there was no hope of getting ideas into a game then why bother having a features and ideas section to the forums to begin with? I happen to think that the idea is a good one and a sound concept. So do a lot of other people who have put in their ideas and concepts for the ships. Im trying to get what you are talking about when it comes to your concept and trying to relate my concept to you. I'm sorry if the ideas and concepts used to make the ships what they are now do not work with what you feel the ships should be. But ill be honest you had me thinking that your complaint was about caldari ships alone and you wanted only that group changed to fit a caldari only setup. And that is something i could not see happening. So is you issue with the Theater Command Ship's skill requirements or with how the Theater Command ships are set up as far as stats and bonuses? Sorry I think I may have been a bit brash, but I'm a bit drunk from the holiday. My problem is I do not think the skill requirements suit the ship. I'm fine with a sub capital that sets a char up for carriers, but as carriers are logistics ships and drone boats. Having a ship that sets you up for carriers, but focuses on rails and has no real focus on drones simply doesn't make sense to me. I don't see why we need a precedent to make a ship. Was there a precedent for the Titan? Besides, I simply took the drone bonus from the Gallente TCS and gave it to them. The drone bay is the Dominix +125m3. So you have a set up which will let you bring 4 sets of heavy drones, which would let you really bring a huge variety of drones to the battle field. If you think the double drone range is over powered, you don't know how slow HVY drones are. Yes meds and lights are faster, but this would drastically lower the ships DPS. Carriers use Capital sized remote reps which require ____ rep 5. T2 large ones require ____ rep 4, so getting pilots into this is also good. They also use logistics modules, which require logistics 5. they have a low number of high slots and lots of tank slots, and they would be forced to chose gang links or reps, much the same way carriers must decide between links, reps, and drone control units. The suggestion that I gave is a lot more like a carrier than the ship you suggest. The ship you suggest is a fine replacement for the Vulture, but it is no way preparation for a carrier with the exception of the Gallente TCS.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.26 03:37:00 - [660] Ahhhhhokay i see what you are saying. I would much rather the ships be evolutions of command ships then direct replacements for capital ships. The Theater Command Ship is supposed to be the evolution of the Fleet Command Ship. Thats why it is set up the way it is. Most of the ships i took some creative liberty to make them evolutions and not pure upgrades. Thats why you see differences in bonuses and ship stats. If the drone requirements for the Theater Command Ship are not good, and see now what you mean, what do you suggest for skill requirements. I want the skills to kick players in the general direction of carriers for the Theater Command Ships and the general direction of Dreadnoughts for the Frontline Command Ship. But the more important thing is for them to be evolutions of command ships and not purely mini capital ships. ((BTW, drunk increases all skills by 300% but reduces perception by 1,000%. Happy holidays))

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