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Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2008.12.26 09:39:00 - [661] I like the idea of a ship that is another step between sub-cap and capital but you shouldn't design the skill requirements specifically for that. The skills required for the ship should be relevant to what is needed to fly it not the next class of ship. I like the idea of flagships, please don't let them get bogged down by trying to make them an artificial bridge between ship classes. Personally, I didn't find a gap between BS and capitals. I made sure I trained all the relevant skills for flying my BS up to lvl 5 for it to be as effective as possible and after that it was just a matter of training adv spaceship command and the dread/carrier/jumpdrive skills. Don't forget that you're supposed to max out skills in a relevant ship to make it effective and that in itself serves to ease the transition.
DeltaPhalanx Caldari Hordes Of Belial	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:07:00 - [662] Balor, a suggestion in place of the Drone Interfacing V requirement; Command Ships V (or perhaps IV). It would seem to be a logical requirement given the roles and function of the Theater Flagship, and would serve as a proper stepping stone; someone looking at flagships should gain at least some experience with operating the equivalent Commandship The role bonuses for the Bastion and Tsunami now make much more sense from the Caldari perspective; thank you
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.29 02:43:00 - [663] No problem man. Okay but the issue still is that the Drone and Drone Interfacing bonuses have to go. So I'm thinking Targeting V and other such electronic skills. I'm not sure where to go so suggestions are welcome.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2009.01.01 10:27:00 - [664] Originally by: Balor Haliquin ... I'm thinking Targeting V and other such electronic skills. I'm not sure where to go so suggestions are welcome. This is a good idea. Having targeting as a prereq is a good plan, how about multitasking as well?
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.02 02:05:00 - [665] I see no reason as to why it should not be allowed save one. The ships cant lock the numbers that would make multitasking useful. The answere might be as simple as upping that Theater Command Ship lock number. But thats a simple fix.
Dhejay Centrix Caldari The Wailing Doom	Posted - 2009.01.03 07:57:00 - [666] Originally by: Balor Haliquin I see no reason as to why it should not be allowed save one. The ships cant lock the numbers that would make multitasking useful. The answere might be as simple as upping that Theater Command Ship lock number. But thats a simple fix. It would be correct for a ship of this type to be able to lock a load of targets and this can be your "rp reason" for requiring the skill if you feel you need one. Having a large number of targets lockable would be a really good reason for people to fly these ships in their intended role.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.05 18:41:00 - [667] Well having a ship that can lock six and requiring a skill that allows you to lock 7 at level 1 seems a little starnge to me. Besides i can hear the populous pointing out the flaw now. It should add some uniqueness to the two classes. One can lock 6 (Frontline) while the other can lock 7 (Theater). So the new skill requirements for the Theater command ship will look like this then. (Example is for an Amarr ship) Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
procurement specialist	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:01:00 - [668] why fleet commander? i would think wing command 4 would be good enough. this would make capitals still the fleet leader ship. i also think spaceship command V is required. I would require drone interfacing 4 though.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.05 20:20:00 - [669] Spaceship command is already a requirement, its under the secondary skills. There was a huge debate about the requirements for Drone Interfacing and drones as a requirement at all. Simply put, most of the ships do not need that kind of skill so it seems out of place to require it. And the reason for Fleet Commander, it was an attempted to force people into the fleet commander position. It seems apropriate for the ships concept.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:09:00 - [670] Edited by: Balor Haliquin on 12/01/2009 21:11:00 AMARR Name: Requiem Hull: Abaddon Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Carthum Conglomerate Carthum ships are the very embodiment of the Amarrian warfare philosophy. Possessing sturdy armor and advanced weapons systems, they provide a nice mix of offense and defense. On the other hand, their electronics and shield systems tend to be rather limited. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level, 5% bonus armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret capacitor cost per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Tracking Link and Tracking Computer effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 4 mid / 8 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 20700 CPU: 530 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 6850 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 9000 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 75m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 75 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Vanquisher Hull: Abaddon Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity per level, 5% bonus to armor Resistances per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Capacitor Recharge Rate per level, 3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored Warfare Links module per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 19500 CPU: 530 Hard points: 1 Turret/6 Launcher Shield HP: 7350 Shield Resistances: 0/65/52.5/20 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8400 Armor Resistances: 50/35/37.5/35 Hull HP: 8000 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3s Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6375 Capacitor Recharge: 1,250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 80km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Radar 22 Signature Radius: 480m Scanner Resolution: 85 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Fusion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Amarr Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Amarr Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Amarr Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:10:00 - [671] CALDARI Name: Tsunami Hull: Rokh Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Kaalakiota As befits one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the known world, Kaalakiota's ships are very combat focused. Favoring the traditional Caldari combat strategy, they are designed around a substantial number of weapons systems, especially missile launchers. However, they have rather weak armor and structure, relying more on shields for protection. Cladari Battleship Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Kinetic Missile damage per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to ECCM and Remote ECCM effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 7 mid / 5 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 13500 CPU: 750 Hard points: 0 Turret/7 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skill Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Bastion Hull: Rohk Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Ishukone Most of the recent designs off their assembly line have provided for a combination that the Ishukone name is becoming known for great long-range capabilities and shield systems unmatched anywhere else. Caldari Battleship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range per level, 5% bonus to shield Resistances per skill level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Shield Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Siege Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14900 CPU: 750 Hard points: 7 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 9250 Shield Resistances: 0/50/52.5/35 Shield Recharge: 2500.00 Armor HP: 6750 Armor Resistances: 50/10/37.5/60 Hull HP: 7250 Velocity: 89m/s Drone Bay: 50m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 50 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 625m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 90km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Gravometric 24 Signature Radius: 510m Scanner Resolution: 75 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Magpulse 7 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Caldari Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Caldari Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Caldari Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:12:00 - [672] GALLENTE Name: Athena Hull: Hyperion Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Roden Shipyards Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tends to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ships in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modification options but limited electronic systems. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Hybrid Turrets damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 12.5% bonus to Sensor Booster and Remote Sensor Booster effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 5 mid / 7 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 15650 CPU: 570 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8350 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8900 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Artemis Hull: Hyperion Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: CreoDron As the largest drone developer and manufacturer in space, CreoDron has a vested interest in drone carriers. While sacrificing relatively little in the way of defensive capability, the Artimus can chew its way through surprisingly strong opponents - provided, of course, that the pilot uses top-of-the-line CreoDron drones. Gallente Battleship Bonus: 10% bonus to drone Hit Points and Damage per level, 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's maximum Armor Hit Points per level, 3% bonus to Information Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 14150 CPU: 570 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 7000 Shield Resistances: 0/50/55/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8500 Armor Resistances: 50/10/50/47.5 Hull HP: 8750 Velocity: 110m/s Drone Bay: 175m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 125 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 675m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 7200 Capacitor Recharge: 1500.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 65km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Magnometric 23 Signature Radius: 495m Scanner Resolution: 110 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Ion 8 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Gallente Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Gallente Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Gallente Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 21:13:00 - [673] MINMATAR Name: Lahar Hull: Maelstrom Role: Frontline Command Ship Developer: Boundless Creations Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible. Defense systems and electronics arrays therefore tend to take a back seat to sheer annihilative potential. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, 20% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness Fitting slots: 8 high / 6 mid / 6 low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18700 CPU: 610 Hard points: 8 Turret/0 Launcher Shield HP: 7650 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 8100 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7500 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 6 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Command Ships IV -> Heavy Assault Ships IV --> Assault Ships IV ---> Engineering V ---> Mechanics V ---> Spaceship Command III -> Advanced Weapons Upgrades V --> Weapon Upgrades V Name: Halberd Hull: Maelstrom Role: Theater Command Ship Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Battleship Bonus: 3% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire per level, 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level Flagship Bonus: 5% bonus to fleet member's Signature Radius reduction per level, 3% bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link module effectiveness per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in CPU cost for warfare link modules, Activate 2 warfare link modules simultaneously Fitting slots: 8 High / 7 Mid / 5 Low / 2 rig Power Grid: 18100 CPU: 610 Hard points: 6 Turret/1 Launcher Shield HP: 8300 Shield Resistances: 15/50/40/32.5 Shield Recharge: 2500.00sec Armor HP: 7350 Armor Resistances: 75/10/25/35 Hull HP: 7600 Velocity: 94m/s Drone Bay: 100m^3 Drone Bandwidth: 100 MgBits/sec Cargo Bay: 550 m^3 Capacitor Capacity: 6000 Capacitor Recharge: 1250.00sec Maximum Targeting Range: 75km Maximum Lock: 8 Sensor Strength: Ladar 21 Signature Radius: 470m Scanner Resolution: 90 Inertial Modifier: 0.155 Propulsion Strength: Plasma 9 Required Skills Primary Skills Required > Minmatar Battleships V -> Spaceship Command IV -> Minmatar Cruisers IV --> Spaceship Command III --> Minmatar Frigates IV ---> Spaceship Command I Secondary Skills Required > Flagships -> Fleet Commander I --> Wing Commander V --> Warfare Link Specialization IV ---> Leadership V -> Spaceship Command V Tertiary Skills Required > Logistics IV -> Spaceship Command III -> Signature Analysis V > Multitasking I -> Targeting V --> Electronics I -> Long Range Targeting V --> Electronics II > Electronics V
swisher Caldari Mentis Fidelis Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:06:00 - [674] /sign, often I wanted an additional sub-capital, although couldn't think of a name. flagship works, although I didn't hit the t3 command ships marker straight on. just a thought though, "Armed with a bonus to anti-electronic warfare, they can assist other ships in making sure that the damage reaches the target." give them sensor strength out the wazoo, perhaps make a module that disables electronic warfare modules either targeted or area affect. Perhaps give built-in fleet bonuses to tracking, signature radius, or capacitor, to counteract electronic warfare. Above all, how can you tell if this is part of my post, or my signature? Give my missiles their splash damage! \o/
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.12 23:46:00 - [675] I have thought about doing something like that for the fleet bonuses to differentiate the two classes, but the issue is that the current bonuses can help all ships, the resolution bonuses and such would either be overpowered or not diverse enough. Ill see what i can do, thanks for the idea.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.01.17 05:15:00 - [676] ok sign me up for a petition to get these ships in game as soon as possilbe...
nickmeister89	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:25:00 - [677] hey balor, i like the idea of having fleet command ships. i do believe those ships will do wonders in orginazation in fleet type battles.
Anh Nguyen	Posted - 2009.01.21 08:58:00 - [678] I though that flag ship is a term for the ship where the highest commander of that fleet seats. Anything can be a flagship, a frigate, a cruiser, a battleship, a capital ship, though in real life the big guys tend to sit in the biggest ship, there are some cases like when that ship got destroyed, he moved to a frigate and that frigate could be called a flagship. If you mean a ship with the intended role to increase the effectiveness of the whole fleet in combat, we got the command ships already, actually any battlecruiser can be gang booster but field command ships are the those specialized for that role. I dont see how sub capital ships get disadvantage in fighting with capital ships, i just see that capital ships are the ones that get disadvanted in fighting with smaller ships, and if you are completely out weighed and out numbered and still win, would that be unfair for those who brought a lot more just to lose.
Poldarn Joaq Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2009.01.21 10:02:00 - [679] Please can I have a Flagship? Come on CCP its a great idea. --------------- Thats no moon!! ---------------
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.21 22:33:00 - [680] Consider the name of the class to be a working concept name. The name was for it was the one that i flet best suited and described what this ships was intended and designed to be. I suppose I could call it a Heavy Command Ship but that seemed way to campy. But in all honesty its up to CCP to make the final desision on the ships and their eventual status as a part of the game or just a good idea.
Mrs Altimcaltalt	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:03:00 - [681] OK CCP!!!! STICKY THIS THRED ALREADY! I WANT THESE SHIPS!
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:12:00 - [682] Signed _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:22:00 - [683] Thanks for the support guys. If anyone has any suggestions to make please feel free to post them.
lech lizdian	Posted - 2009.02.01 18:40:00 - [684] Edited by: lech lizdian on 01/02/2009 18:41:35 Edited by: lech lizdian on 01/02/2009 18:40:57 Originally by: Anh Nguyen I though that flag ship is a term for the ship where the highest commander of that fleet seats. Anything can be a flagship, a frigate, a cruiser, a battleship, a capital ship, though in real life the big guys tend to sit in the biggest ship, there are some cases like when that ship got destroyed, he moved to a frigate and that frigate could be called a flagship. If you mean a ship with the intended role to increase the effectiveness of the whole fleet in combat, we got the command ships already, actually any battlecruiser can be gang booster but field command ships are the those specialized for that role. usually a titan could be consiterd a "Flag ship" but thats why the flag ship idea has the simular bonus of a titan (increase armor for galente ect....) not every alliance/corp can afford to get thier ass in a titan, and also titans cant be used in high sec... which renders them useless for war decs.... you can also look at the flag ship as a mini titan in the same respect as to why they came out with the mini rorq... i would love to see this ship introduced.... maybe first expansion after tech III ships would be nice
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:10:00 - [685] I speedread through about half the thread, but couldn't find anyone asking what I'm about to ask... Why make Flagships a T2 Tier 3 BS? Why not follow the established pattern and make it a whole new T1 ship class? (The pattern I'm referrring to is the one of ship classes. For every original ship class in EvE, an interrim ship class has been introduced that borrows abilities from both its smaller and bigger "brothers"...except the Battleship. Flagships would be the interrim class between the Battleship and the Capital Ship.) I know that everybody here wants a T2 Tier 3 BS, but I have a feeling that you would better achieve your goal if you envisioned it as a T1 hull. (Then you could play around with a T2 version of the Flagship hull and possibly create a PvP monster. ) Just a thought.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:30:00 - [686] The suggestion of a completely new hull has been made before. And several times in this thread. But in all the research I have done for these ships I have no come across the concept that there needs to be a completely new T1 ship. The Command ships are based off of the tech 1 tier 1 battlecruisers. And there are no other command oriented ships until you get to capitals. And to be perfectly fair, Capitals to not really fallow the same rules as the sub-capitals. The main reason or the tech 2 tier 3 battleship is for many reasons. The ships currently have no tech 2 varients. They are almost the same as the tier 1 battlecruisers in the form of bonuses. As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choice. And I happen to like the idea of using them as a command platform. But making a completely new hull seems a bit off the beaten path. It would involve a lot of choices that I think can be better solved by simply making a T2 varient of a ship. The ship design here is really aimed at the smaller corps and helping them. As another person mentioned, not everyone can afford the titans.
Gantor Tesla	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:46:00 - [687] Originally by: Zaknussem I speedread through about half the thread, but couldn't find anyone asking what I'm about to ask... Why make Flagships a T2 Tier 3 BS? Why not follow the established pattern and make it a whole new T1 ship class? (The pattern I'm referrring to is the one of ship classes. For every original ship class in EvE, an interrim ship class has been introduced that borrows abilities from both its smaller and bigger "brothers"...except the Battleship. Flagships would be the interrim class between the Battleship and the Capital Ship.) I know that everybody here wants a T2 Tier 3 BS, but I have a feeling that you would better achieve your goal if you envisioned it as a T1 hull. (Then you could play around with a T2 version of the Flagship hull and possibly create a PvP monster. ) Just a thought. I'm working on this here. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=988055 I had similar ideas, we talked about them earlier in the tread. I came to the same conclusion as Bal, that the T3 BS is a good bigger Command ship, but it strains the ships trying to be the bridge between classes.
Balor Haliquin Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.02 03:31:00 - [688] I should point out that I have given up the idea that these ship could truely bridge the gap between the sub caps and the cap ships. I would much rather have them be more fleet oriented then trying to fill that roll.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:14:00 - [689] Edited by: fuxinos on 02/02/2009 11:15:06 The balance of the propossed ships is quite good, they look like they are well thought out. But if you look closer, yoou will find many mistakes: 1. The Vanguisher is from Khanid, Khanidships always give the oppurtunity to fit Lasers - Give 7-8 Turretharpoints. 2. The Vanguisher has the worst offensive capability - 1 more Missilelauncherhardpoint + Explovelobonus to 10% Missile speed bonus (Just to bring it in line with all the other Fleetflagships offensivecapability). 3. The resits of the ships are completly screwed. Caldari for example has high Kinetic and Thermic resits on Shield AND Armor, but you gave the Caldari Flagships 50% Exploresist on Armor, that should not be like that. 4. On the Tsunami, dont make the same mistake as CCP by negating the advantage of choosing the damage you want to deal by giving the ship a Kineticdamagebonus (Drones are the best example, why use specific drones, if Hobgoblins still deal more damage, because of their high damagemodifier). If you would fix these, I see no point why these ships should not be implemented.
Zaknussem Caldari Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:12:00 - [690] Originally by: Balor Haliquin The main reason or the tech 2 tier 3 battleship is for many reasons. The ships currently have no tech 2 varients. They are almost the same as the tier 1 battlecruisers in the form of bonuses. As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choic The Tier 2 Battlecruisers don't have T2 variants either. Wouldn't common sense dictate that if you're trying to build a ship with Leadership bonuses, you use a ship that has already been earmarked for the role, namely the Battlecruisers? Especially, as you say it, they are "almost the same as T1 Battlecruisers in the form of bonuses"? Because it's already been done? Then I ask, why make a Flagship to begin with? The game already have a ship class that both gives Leadership bonuses and can fight on its own. Unfortunately, it does more of the latter than the former. Quote: As a command platform they seem a rather obvious choice. And I happen to like the idea of using them as a command platform. The obvious choice here is that it's your idea and that you like it. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not criticizing your idea in itself, but I'm poking at the foundations on which your idea is built, as I see them to be unsound. You've created a very good and balanced set of ships (rulewise) but the truth is that they're not needed. We already have Command Ships; the fact that they're not being used as intended is a problem with CCP not balancing them properly, not because they aren't good enough and a similar but bigger ship is needed. I'm afraid you've lost sight of the bigger picture, and what you need to do is go back to the basics: Why does EvE need a Flagship? Why does EvE need a larger Command Ship? You have yet to answer these questions convincingly, despite the project being this old and the thread this long. Once you have sorted this out, the chances of CCP implementing your idea into EvE will increase tenfold.

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