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0.0 alliances nothing but bullies?

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Dante Fugazi	Posted - 2007.12.16 11:36:00 - [1] I'm pretty new to eve, but after talking to many people in game, and reading the forums a pretty clear picture of 0.0 alliances is starting to come together for me. Stop me if I'm wrong, and please enlighten my ignorance if that is the case. Am I the only one who see's 0.0 alliance as schoolyard bullies, and lying thieves? Sure you can pay not to be podded (dirty and underhanded mob tactics) but the moment one of their pilots get bored, your toast regaurdless of whether you payed their "protection fee" if you can call it that, as it's not protection, just a half promise not to pod you (maybe). It seems the larger the alliance, the more dirty and underhanded they are, claiming entire regions as their property, charging higher "protection" fee's. Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks these guys need to be wiped out. Take "A History of the Fountain Alliance." for example. Where I come from if a schoolyard bully with 6 of his peon buddies says "give me your lunch money" you hand it to him with a big smile and come back with 12 of YOUR friends the next day to take it back in the price of blood. Are there alliances trying to stomp these guys for the sake of doing the right thing? or is it just other bullies trying to take over so they can be the new bully?
Darken Two Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.16 18:42:00 - [2] Almost no alliances charge you to enter their space. Most of them flat out refuse entry to neutrals. The ones that do charge, charge a fee for other alliances and corps to use the resources in teh area they have claimed and protect. This means protecting the space, not their renters. Allainces claim large areas of space mainly because they want abundant resorces to make money and less choke points. It is actaully easier to defend a region than a constellation in most cases. This is because while a constellation might have 10 entry points into it, any region will probably only have between 3 and 5 entry points making it easier to defend. Alliances are more about making money and fighting and less about greed and bullying. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Chucky Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.12.16 21:59:00 - [3] 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance. Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.18 02:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 18/12/2007 02:12:22 In EVE might is right. EVE is also not real life, so while in real life you feel that anyone who uses their might to justify their right needs to be "wiped out" in EVE which is a computer game where our characters don't die, experience pain, hunger, disease, and don't have families the moral principles of real life are not applicable. If you control territory in EVE this gives you the right to do whatever you please in this territory. But if you're role playing of course you can make your character have a goal to fight against this. Some 0.0 alliances (not all) accept renters which means they allow corporations and smaller alliances to live in their territory and use its resources while charging rent. There are many other alliances that feel this is the wrong approach and instead if you want to have access to their resource you'd be forced to join them and pass their recruitment screenings. There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems of alliance management. If you want to find a group fighting against this kind of behavior I think the closest would be Star Fraction, but they are not exactly fighting against 0.0 bullies in particular - just read their recruitment post to get a sense of if that's what you had in mind.
Final Requiem Gallente White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.18 05:13:00 - [5] most alliances flat out pod you in 0.0, they wont ransom, usually wont even say a word, if you're not blue, they'll shoot you simple as that. everything you've described is LOW SEC PIRATES, not 0.0. low sec pirates are the ones who gate camp and ransom people, the ones who charge frees to fly though "their systems". (insert epic sounding "failure" from SSB) __________ [-WSI-] "In the name of God, impure souls of the living deal shall be banished into eternal damnation. AMEN."
azura nester White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.18 05:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Chucky 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance. Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. nah, 0.0 just blows because you got ****** out space when BoB dident came to your rescue. 0.0 alliances dont charge for entry, we just kill neutrals that come into our space. bullys? i think not, we dont pay attention to low sec all that much
A'lina 101 Industries space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.12.18 07:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Chucky 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance. Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. i think its kinda like that. as small entity traing to move to 0.0 you can NEARLY ONLY do it as renter. besides the logistic and towers + guns + guns + guns....(expensive)... to keep them against your old sitting enemys in 0.0 you take space from you also need a decent sized fleet and everyone need to be able to take some losses aswell as a decent sized capital fleet yes the 1b+ shiponly junk... since you can be sure to see a capital blob on your towers as soon as the spaceholder can field them. this rule only dont applys to entitys that didnt got the time to "build up" far enough in 0.0. taking a picture from north with much smaller entitys who where "just in place" and seeing how tri sorry for taking you in concern again lol just steamrolled them because they had the capfleet and towers while the others couldnt match them in this case also seeing that a... well from all sides pushed down and less respected alliance like kos, which merely fields what... 50?! pilots maybe 100 could hold their space against multiple attacker and taking in concern that they got time to build up kinda makes it a little obvious that its all about ressources. just try to tell me now how "empire adventurer" that spend a decent time on their missions and having to group up to increase their isk/time ratio or "lowsec adventurer" that maybe find 1 or 2 good complexes...maybe mining little better ore...or having 1-2 times a month a good factionspawn can keep up or ever reach 0.0 entitys? 0.0 citisens that have 800-1.850.000 isk rats right outside their station? like what? 5min work for a tripple 1,85m spawn? compared to any mission or the battlecruiser in lowsec this is just uber. than seeing items like x-type... only droped in highrate complexes ONLY able to be found in 0.0 next to the massive bounty in these complexes which is guarantee all 4h and the items having incredible prices to easy finance even more towers and capital ships its really only feeding the rich. since the only secure way to run them properly is being sure no one easy disturbs you and being able to move with a decent sized gang there unspotted or unbothered.... in other words its your space and you have intel on who is where or maybe inbound that you know when its better to bail. also seeing how much groups fight over npc 0.0 should also wake some people up. i mean it cant really be that like 5-6 different alliances hit each other on a daily basis in regions like syndicate probably more/great wildlands while other 0.0 space is nearly free to conquer see fountain. the reason people dont take this is because THEY KNOW that they didnt got the assets to fight a capital blob. each tower loss would mean a lot to these alliances and the new ways of constelation sovereighnity just made it worse to conquer, conquerable 0.0 from entitys that have taken it long time ago. without geting in place of a really weak / new faction just shortly moved to 0.0, or a renter that gets wiped out by a larger faction, or a faction that stumbles from internal problems there is nearly no way to take this space. just my 2 cents of spending my life in different allys / corps of eve see my employment. not representing my corp blablabla.... but in fact as chucky said: the rich get richer and the poor get screwed
Dante Fugazi	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:38:00 - [8] Eve is FULL of ore, minerals, gas clouds, etc. that can ONLY be accessed in 0.0... So anyone who is new to the game, by default is screwed out of ALL of this. I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? Or am I supposed to wait til I have the "minimum skill points required" to join them? Or better yet, for the invite only ones, I'm supposed to pull off the social engineering feat of the century and get myself accepted? Or is it that I'm supposed to just forget the whole idea, and stay in empire forever? Before anyone starts flaming me saying "noobs dont belong in 0.0" blah blah Everyone was once new, and even a player that has been in eve for a year or more, stands NO chance of fighting these guys without a HUGE alliance at their back. So that again raises my above questions. I know the next flame after that one will be "Just pay for access" WHY??? To be podded by their bored pilots, or the pirates who infultrate that territory? It seems to me that it's a flaw in the game mechanics, and a mistake which the outcome was never fully thought out by CCP. New players already get the "St end of the stick" all the way around. I guess until CCP decides to even the playing field somehow, all us "noobs" are supposed to sit in empire. And just for the fun of it, I'll answer flame #3 before it's even typed sure sure they're just defending "their" territory... I guess the rest of us are paying the same ammount to play, so that we can be screwed out of the better resources of the game. Could you imagine the sheer volume of kleenex that would be consumed by these same alliances who are the "owners" of 0.0 if the jovian's one day claimed all of 0.0 as THEIRS, podded everyone in 0.0 and started charging access, and still podded people at random when they got bored? Maybe thats what's needed, a world class smackdown to put some of the more pompous and arrogant alliances in their places. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that larger alliances work as a larger unit to defend sections of space, I just don't think It's right that anyone should be able to "own" a system, if there are resources that can ONLY be found there. I also think most of these guys have forgotten what it's like to be a new player. And just for the record, I can't remember the guy's name but I read a post stating something along the lines of "and if you are a new player you have no right to post in these forums." Oh gosh, I guess only the "leet uber" players that have been here forever have the "right" to post, and go to 0.0 and access all the benefits of 0.0, excuse me for helping to pay for your new expansion you arrogant P*k!
CTec	Posted - 2007.12.18 13:42:00 - [9] Like in all things, If a person wants to have the experience and skill set to do 0.0 space. He/she will need to "do the time," meaning, be apart of some large organization and learn the ropes. Build your personal wealth up and train for the day you because able to move forward in your wants for gameplay. RL requires apprentice experience and this game is similar in that respect. I have no illusion that my little 4 player corp can make a home in 0.0 and hold it, that would be silly. It has been stated many times there are no safe zones. Brutality and aggression are required in order to hold you own little piece of the sand box. If a person can not see that is how the game it played and cannot bring accept he needs to bend and adapt. They may need to find other things to occupy their time.
The Comatorium The Ghazi	Posted - 2007.12.18 18:31:00 - [10] Ain't War hell? ------------------------- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, For you never know wich one will strike you in the back.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.12.18 19:30:00 - [11] Fit a cloak? hiccup
Nocturnal Avenger The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.12.18 20:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Dante Fugazi Or better yet, for the invite only ones, I'm supposed to pull off the social engineering feat of the century and get myself accepted? Hardly. Some 0.0 alliances are easy to join - others are not. Of course - as in real life, those who accept very young players have little to lose and vice versa. But - by all means - get your butt to 0.0 and learn to pvp. This is where the real fun starts :) - Carebear Pirate -
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.19 02:49:00 - [13] There are plenty of easy to enter 0.0 alliances. Even the "exclusive" ones are simple to get into if you just target one of the outlying membership pools.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.19 05:38:00 - [14] yes they are nothing but big bullies Join The Fight With Promo Today View The North Star!
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.19 07:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Dante Fugazi Eve is FULL of ore, minerals, gas clouds, etc. that can ONLY be accessed in 0.0... So anyone who is new to the game, by default is screwed out of ALL of this. I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? Or am I supposed to wait til I have the "minimum skill points required" to join them? I think you got the wrong perception of 0.0 alliances. You're probably thinking they are full of 20+ mil sp players who have all been playing for years if not since beta and unless you're on the same level with them, are a cap ship pilot and a pro pvper they aren't going to take you so for years you're going to be shunned from 0.0 access. I've lived in 0.0 and I know how it goes and if you're thinking the above you're wrong. Some of these alliance will accept practically anybody. The go for the numbers and prefer to have a lot of active players. When I was a noob i got into a 0.0 alliance just a bit shy of three million skill points. It wasn't the best alliance in the game, but hey, you don't get the very best stuff at the beginning of the game otherwise there would be no point in playing it. There were battleship rats and plexes and all the other high income stuff. And this 0.0 alliance shared all of it with me, a 3 mil sp noob who couldn't even fly a battleship or anything tech II and knew nothing of fleet warfare. You're painting a pretty grim picture of the game when I don't think you quite know what you're talking about. If your issues is that you can't be your own master in 0.0, either have to pay someone or join someone else, well that's because 0.0 space is something that requires teamwork, playing with other people. If you want to be your own boss you are indeed supposed to raise your own corporation and either fight for the space or apply to join an existing 0.0 alliance, basically you have to earn it. Nevertheless it is extremely easy. I've seen really crappy corporations with crappy leadership and noob players get into 0.0 and survive there for many months. And if they can do it, why can't you?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.19 12:39:00 - [16] I tend to think of 0.0 like an out of control inner city and the alliances like gangs. The politics seem about the same. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.19 23:20:00 - [17] Watch the recruitment forums for open recruitments. Train yourself. Eventually the requirements of a 0.0 alliance and your skills will meet and you're in. It took me a year to jump ship from my empire corp to a 0.0 alliance corp, and it wasn't all that painful. I made contact, listened to the pitch, and I haven't walked into their organization like they owe me anything, and its been frickin' incredible to be a part of the bigger picture. Even if you get into a small alliance that holds only one or two systems, it makes you feet wet into the big show and it starts building your history beyond the CONCORD guns. Prove yourself at least capable of hanging in the game and you can move up when the time comes. As an empire based corporation, its more difficult to break into a 0.0 alliance, unless you're willing to risk getting burned to meet the people who might be willing to deal with you. You're going to have to learn to swim and learn to play at their level and earn their respect, and that sometimes means you're going to have to be willing to forgive alliances that blast you from time to time in order to move up. You cannot take 0.0 personally, you just have to acknowledge your place in the pecking order and make opportunities happen. So be ready to make a lot of guest appearances on various alliance killboards and be ready to move quick to take advantage. Otherwise, enjoy being a carebear.
Mizerik Grettistak	Posted - 2007.12.20 02:22:00 - [18] For the smaller alliances or even single corps, the best place to get your feet wet in 0.0 is NPC regions where you can't claim Sov. There is less incentive for someone to come kill your POS's while learning basics of 0.0 life. Just because your in NPC space doesn't mean your safe, form a war pact with other locals for mutual defense, make deals with large alliances to claim some small part of space (for a price) and get fat and rich off the loot and salvage from the inevitable 5 man HAC gang that passes through. In all the alliances my corp was ever in, I don't ever remember charing for renters... We just gave them the Pod Express home. If they were good fighters we would even invite them to join us :)
Thenotborg Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion	Posted - 2007.12.20 11:05:00 - [19] Don't get me wrong but maybe Eve just isn't your game. When I was a noob I have written down names of my first killers to revenge later. But I never did because I understood that Eve is a very though game and that I was killed just because of my own mistakes. And I killed many others by now and I'm sure some of them hate me for that. And all of this give Eve its edge.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.20 23:08:00 - [20] You've got a one-sided view of 0.0 alliances. Ever buy all the POS gear needed? Fuel towers for years? Scanned 100's of moons? Build your own outposts? Fight off people wanting to take it from you? Kill off people who are weak defenders? Try to keep PVP'rs and Industrialists happy? Provide ships, ammo and gear for your members? Do all the logistic work to keep it running? Deal with Spies and Thieves? Had to put down a out-of-control CEO? Be called upon to defend a neighbor? Tried to negoatiate standings so you can get to empire safely? Tried to negoatiate standings so you can kill someone's freind that's slighted you? The alliances have rules cuz they are ultimately the ones who make it all work. If you don't want to join one, you're free to create your own alliance and try to take space from them. If you expect some sort of free pass without any affilliation with my alliance, expect to be hunted and podded. Cuz while we want active members, we don't want freeloaders.
Chereadenine Zakalwe VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.21 03:12:00 - [21] My alliance and out neighbors CVA operate a NRDS policy,so pirates aside..your pretty much free to come and go.. Though you will have problems if you fly around with a npc corp pilot with no history..spies/scouts are shot on site Fancy a change of scenery? [/url] ô您&#
Jinn AsaniQui Amarr Svea Rike Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.21 05:07:00 - [22] It's simple really... Either you have power and welth, or you dont. There is no middleground in EVE, (atleast thats my opinion).
Big Socks Amarr Intersolar Research	Posted - 2007.12.21 13:46:00 - [23] Yawn yawn, why do people after just joining this game feel they are entitilted, nah, must have access to 0.0, fly the biggest ships and not get podded ever! why dont u do what most of the great allainces have done, learn to fly, learn the tactics and what your ship has to offer, start your own corp, get experiance with that, learn the role playing side and get to know Eve better! then grow, gain more members, teach them your ways and begin to move to more dangerous space and then the world is your oyster! Please dont moan and complain withing a week of playing the game.
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2007.12.22 11:17:00 - [24] Normally I'd say move to high traffic low sec/npc 0.0 asap and don't look back, but with your attitude you probably should stay in empire forever since you'll never make it anywhere. However if you feel like coming down off of that cross you're on, wake up and realize it's a pvp game, and you should learn how to fight if you want to accomplish anything on your own, then you'll realize how wrong each and every one of your misconceptions actually are. Otherwise, since it seems like the thought of combat intimidates you, just join one of the blobbers and mooch off of their sovereign space. Judging from your posts You'd fit right in, just look at the top 10 alliances by member count, pick one, then app one of the weak link corps in it. It will usually be one with the most members (takes anyone), or the least (desperate for members). Or you could join Ivy League, just shut your mouth and open your mind and let them show you how ignorant your claims really are. Or you can move out to NPC 0.0, join a pvp corp and fight non-stop against players instead of POSes and lag. Quote: Before anyone starts flaming me saying "noobs dont belong in 0.0" blah blah Everyone was once new, and even a player that has been in eve for a year or more, stands NO chance of fighting these guys without a HUGE alliance at their back. So that again raises my above questions. lulz tell that to our 1 month old recruits who solo gank 2 year vets in carebear alliances filled with people like you who thought they needed to "wait" to enter 0.0. Quote: I know the next flame after that one will be "Just pay for access" WHY??? To be podded by their bored pilots, or the pirates who infultrate that territory? It seems to me that it's a flaw in the game mechanics, and a mistake which the outcome was never fully thought out by CCP. New players already get the "S**t end of the stick" all the way around. I guess until CCP decides to even the playing field somehow, all us "noobs" are supposed to sit in empire. The only people who pay for access are whiners like you. The only flaw I see is in your warped perspective and false sense of entitlement. Go back to WoW dude.
ranna sleeper White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.23 10:19:00 - [25] Edited by: ranna sleeper on 23/12/2007 10:24:17 a) you can be in 0.0 w/o having to be a mega alliance, most of them rent out tons of space and given how easy it is to make isk out there, any corp that isn't just 60 alts and 9 actual people should be able to more then pay for most reasonable renters fee's. b) not all the mega alliances only take in high sp players. take goon for example, they've got probably one of the best newbie friendly alliances in the game, heck most of the goon recruits are brand new characters. the ones that do require high sp are usually supported by low sp corps or alliances w/ a few exception simply because it's a lot easier to talk someone w/ 2mil sp into bump spamming a titan then it is to talk a dred pilot into. c) yes, there are ores and what not in 0.0 that you cant find in empire, however any corp w/ even a half decent leader knows how to make due with what you have. you may not be able to get the high ends but you can still mine more of the low ends and sell them to buy the high ends, it's called an economy, what a wondrous thing it is. d) even if a, b, or c don't get through your skull, there's always the fact not every 0.0 system is taken up by mega alliances, or any alliances for that matter. it's not hard to find uncolonized space, just contact the diplo to w/e alliance is around there and ask them if you can move in to it, chances are they'll say yes. while i do admit they're usually not the best systems, it still gets you access to w/e you may need, but then again this option would require someone who knows how to have a informed, intelligent talk. e) it's close minded players like yourself that give some of us a bad rep. i moved out to 0.0 when my char wasnt even 2 months old, and you know what i've lost out there, nothing. why, because it's not who's got the bigger guns or who's got the most skill points, 0.0 is all about numbers. one noob may not be able to stand up to a hac gang, one noob may not be able to take gank the enemy, but you take that one noob, add 5 more, and throw in just 1 person with combat experiance, and chances are your little gang of 7 will atleast ruin someone's day. you all may lose a ship just to take down 1 or 2 of them, but when your ship cost 10mil and the enemy's ship cost 100, who do you think really is the one who lost there. f) ah f, the last and simplest of point. if all else fails, simply cancel your subscription to eve and go play WoW, I've herd there's a lot of small children on that game for you to spend hours and hours fighting with using that astounding 3rd grade logic.
Xorth Adimus Caldari Zero Divide The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.12.23 12:42:00 - [26] Edited by: Xorth Adimus on 23/12/2007 12:43:17 It may comfort you to know the grass isnt always greener. There are many huge alliances out there that fight over pos's and the best regions to claim as a home. Unfortunatly this involves getting blown up allot for reasons beyond your control, blobs, lag, politics, stupid taxes and a pretty much complete loss of independance. Allot of people like this, allot of others hate these downsides. It sounds like you have probably ran into these other people allot! They find regions for fun 0.0 gang pvp or live as low sec pirates and are completely independent. Whatever you fly outside of empire is very likely to die unless you know what your doing or have friends, if you are neutral you will be shot on sight by anyone for fun or as a potential spy or pirate or out of boredom. This said, many areas of 0.0 are pretty empty most of the time and when they get busy thats when the fun and the game really starts! This game is all about people working together get out there explore and learn. Get to know your enemies and friends! Low sec and nearby 0.0 is where most of the fun can be found and with the right friends you can be very successful. I am sure you will find many people with the same problems and goals as you! Alternativly you can join some of the other (less huge)PVP based alliances and not lose any independance and at the same time pool your resources for pvp and fun. You also get some good experience and trustworthy friends in the process, which is all anyone could want! <a href="http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/Xorthadimus/?action=view¤t=XORTHSIG.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/Xorthadimus/XORTHSIG.jpg" border="0"
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.23 17:32:00 - [27] If you want a shot at 0.0, try an NPC region first, best to do it with a corp though, or you will find it incredibly difficult as other corps and alliances live in NPC space.
Zen Krane Caldari Legacy State Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.12.24 03:33:00 - [28] you have to pay your dues just like anyone else who played this game. we are not bullies, we tried skills, joined a corporation and then joined an alliance or made our own alliance. there are no free lunches in eve or real life. with that said, yes there are some arrogant alliances out there. stay away and join a respectable one.
Bunny McHauler Dawn of Chaos	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:26:00 - [29] Don't seem to be bullies to me.
Xyntis Night-Vision SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:00:00 - [30] Yeah, I can see where you think they are bullies, but you have to realize most of them have worked very hard to get where they are, and to have just any old random person stroll into someones space that they worked very hard to conquer and for them to expect that they do not have to do anything to get into that space, they should think twice. ______ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Myth Al'kar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:48:00 - [31] Edited by: Myth Al''kar on 25/12/2007 19:48:30 We are not bullies. We simply aim to make membership as pleasant as possible for our members. Unfortunately, this means that the 0.0 space we control must be policed as much as time permits. While we respect the non aligned players, we highly suggest that those not seeking a confrontation stay out of Allied 0.0 space. holovid camera turns off Now give me your damn lunch money.
CmdDesaster Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:45:00 - [32] Originally by: Dante Fugazi I'm pretty new to eve, but after talking to many people in game, and reading the forums a pretty clear picture of 0.0 alliances is starting to come together for me. Stop me if I'm wrong, and please enlighten my ignorance if that is the case. Am I the only one who see's 0.0 alliance as schoolyard bullies, and lying thieves? Pardon me but could it be, that you confused the schoolyard with the harbour-quarter?
Ozstar Naughty 40 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.27 11:47:00 - [33] EVE is as much about who you know as it is about what you know. If you have the right attitude and work hard, doors will open and opportunities will present themselves to you. If all you do is sit there, expecting these doors to be opened for you - you will acheive far less. And yes, we're bullies.
ShineDog	Posted - 2007.12.28 00:52:00 - [34] A couple of things. - The game includes deliberate mechanics to allow alliances to claim space. You dont need to put "own" in brackets to suggest that people are acting like they own something, but dont really. They do own it. The system belongs to them. They set taxes, they decide who enters and what the policies within the territory are. - Consider this. I am mining or ratting or salvaging or whatever in my alliances belt in 0.0 there are 10 other people in the system with me, all blue. A neutral enters the system. He is not blue. What do i do at this point? I run. I head back to the station or a bookmark that is out of the way. If this person doesnt have standings that identify him to me as a friend, i HAVE to, for the sake of my ship and pod, treat him as an enemy. He could be a pirate out to pod me. He could be from a corp that is hostile but that we dont have standings to. He could be a scout. He could be a clueless newbie, but fact is, he generally isnt. Since almost everyone who doesnt have standings with our alliance who enters our space is hostile, why is it unreasonable to take them out? These people could cost us stations, if we dont watch ourselves. Bear in mind, entry into 0.0 isnt hard. A lot of the alliances WILL take newbs straight out of the door. And you know what? There isnt a lot of stuff a noob can do in a lot of territory. Believe me ive done it. The rats will kill you and you wont have the skills to mine effectivley. While you can have a good effect in PvP (rookies can tackle) you are still going to die. The whole ransom for pod thing, i find, is more common in lowsec as opposed to 0.0 In true 0.0 you wont get the ransom, generally, you will just get podded and explode.
Trayk Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.29 03:24:00 - [35] Originally by: Jinn AsaniQui It's simple really... Either you have power and welth, or you dont. There is no middleground in EVE, (atleast thats my opinion). Bogus. Time and effort can create both in this game. You just have to work for it, it WONT be handed to you on a silver platter. I don't mind interviewing newer players, but you can't be so raw that you will be unable to earn a living on your own in 0.0. Its the attitude I look for, will you mesh with our corp and its members. Experience comes with time..stupid lasts forever. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Spaceman Gene The Raging Armada Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.29 08:50:00 - [36] Edited by: Spaceman Gene on 29/12/2007 08:53:38 Originally by: Dante Fugazi I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? snickers umm we did...sorta but be ready to take a doomsday device to the face and be willing to not be deterred. /me shruggs... Not saying you have to do it the same way, just that it's been done rather recently. But then, it's the journey that built the people relationships and provided the entertainment value to keep us coming back. This isn't WoW, this is the next evolutionary step from WoW in MMO gaming - Hard Core! Good Luck, sorry for your frustrations with Eve, hope you keep at it. Gene Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Kera Delacour Evenstar Industries	Posted - 2007.12.30 01:34:00 - [37] Wow such missinformation If you plan to move to 0.0 move to an NPC region first and base out of NPC stations. You don't need towers, you don't need a cap fleet, but you will have access to jump clones, nice mission systems, nice ratting, excellent mining. You'll just need to take precations and be careful. Then when you've built up some take some space within the NPC region/area near the stations you're basing out of. Most big 0.0 alliances couldn't give a rip less about Stain/Venal, etc. Because they're so riddled with NPC stations that they're really impossible to hold/control so most just don't bother and just roam periodically and kill anyone they can catch. ----------- EVNS, bringing quality carebearing to a solar system near you!
Earl Black	Posted - 2008.01.01 21:39:00 - [38] Pretty much got it in one, once your out of 0.5 then your dead just a matter of how long it takes. Killmail frenzy takes over, been to 0.0, loads of empty systems you could live, mine or rat no problem, just takes one crew to roam thru and your dead. Unfriendly and far too rich, ship loss mean little when you can make millions in a belt in a few hours, 0.0 is realy about how much isk you got. To most players losing a ship hurts so you only fly what you can afford, 0.0 you just get another one probably T2 if your corp/alliance makes them or has a deal, who do you think has T2 bpo's? Just look around the forums, 15m min sp, must be self sufficient, must have blaa blaa Stay in empire is your best bet, 0.0 they dont want anything but soldiers/targets try empire, try mission or build stuff. Eve may not be for you it can be a hard game it you let it.
Kronos Hopeslayer Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 18:31:00 - [39] The OP's claim that new players can't gain access to 0.0 space is flat out bullcaca. There are plenty of corporations in 0.0 space who recruit and train new players. Maybe pull your head out of the sand and look for one instead of acting like a pariah on the forums?
Skeltek Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:36:00 - [40] Ressources in 0.0 can be harvested. If not protected, another alliance may come around and take those ressources away from you and endanger your industry by simply destroying it. It has shown itself through the years that in order to ensure safety of the 0.0 industry, it got to be protected from competitors spies and the like also. Many deem it simply to be stupid to let other alliances harvest the ressources of their space without giving anything in return like helping defend or stuff like that. Neutrals are simply neutral, because they are neither willing to attack you nor help you defend that space. Wouldnt you feel stupid if you spend 75% of your Evetime with Logistics and POS Warfare, pay the rent and stuff and somebody else just comes around for spying, harvesting or gathering riches while he does nothing in return for it? The riches of 0.0 are very limited after all. But talking about your example there... its become very rare for people to scramble your pod and demand ransom for it, just because Clones are cheap and you got no guarantee he will let you go. Just dont pay next time(give RPGers no chance ;) and buy yourself a new cheap clone. After all, the danger and risk is what makes this game spicy, would be boring otherwise.
Fehz Combat and Mining Utility Inc. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Princess Jodi Tried to negoatiate standings so you can get to empire safely? I've been in a badger negotiating with a russian in a maelstrom using an online translator who I was supposed to be blue with... that'll get the ol' heart pumping.. I made it out alive on friendly terms with half structure.. :)
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:19:00 - [42] Joining a 0.0 alliance isn't hard. I got into Snigg's training corp with less than 5 million sp. I was in 0.0 doing ops as a tackler by the time I hit 5 million sp. There are two easy ways to live in 0.0 1 - Move to NPC space and base out of an npc station. I did this as a 2 week old noob just to see what 0.0 was like. Learned a ton before heading back to empire to acquire more isk and skills. If isk farmers can live and survive in 0.0 alone then so can you. If you can't its because you don't have the skills as a player to hack 0.0 life. 2 - Figure out what you could offer a 0.0 corp/alliance and start handing out resumes. Easiest route into 0.0 pvp alliance is as a ceptor/dictor pilot. Train your racial ceptor and dictor skills upto a decent level start applying. Then the only barrier is isk but its not hard to make isk in 0.0. Run pirate agent missions or rat. Takes racial BS 4 and racial turret/missile 4. Part of the problem empire noobs have with 0.0 is that they figure they should get all of the rewards without having to deal with the 0.0 learning curve. If you live in 0.0, you're going to lose ships. If you pvp, you're going to lose a lot of ships early on. Thats normal so keep ratting/missioning inbetween ops and you'll survive, prosper and actually start being useful. . .. WELP! .. .
wappy Gallente NEXUS CLOUD Cursed Nemesis	Posted - 2008.01.08 12:11:00 - [43] To be honest the OP has EvE figured all wrong. Yes 0.0 alliances can be bullies but i doubt any alliance acting as a bully will have a lot of renters. Alliances that actively rent their space do not shoot their renters cause its bad for business and EvE is all about business and isk flows. I am a member of an alliance of about 100 members and we do live in 0.0 and we dont pay a dime to anyone. Yes there is a couple of really old players that have build up great assets over time that do serve as a backbone to hold our own but its better to talk to people before claiming its impossible. BRUCE just showed that it is possible for a small alliance to start in Empire and achieve the goald of claiming a region. Like i said even C-NEM a small alliance can live in 0.0 by carefully choosing friends and enemies. Skills do not matter but like a lot of people already said your attitude does. Do not expect to receive anything from old players or from anyone but if you work for what you want you will get it eventually. Yes it should even be possible to own your own Titan if you put the time and effort into it. Always remember that what you do need is friends. In 0.0 alone you are nothing with friends you can achieve everything.
Malthraz	Posted - 2008.01.10 11:58:00 - [44] You picked the wrong game bub.
Gibson Rothman HOMELESS. Band of Bums	Posted - 2008.01.10 12:06:00 - [45] Spare Change? More Heads, More Silver
Midas Man	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:55:00 - [46] Edited by: Midas Man on 10/01/2008 16:57:21 A simple RL Analagy to explain 0.0 Mechanics. 1) Save lots of real Life Cash 2) Buy yourself A fighter Jet 3) Go and fly it over USA, Russia, China or anywhere else with a strong Military. Now ask yourself how long that Fighter Jet would stay in the sky? *edit fixed spelling mistake (Missed others LOL)
Asp Rose Minmatar Si chou zhi lu	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:50:00 - [47] What I really hate is how this guy is being so self-righteous despite being new and admitting that he doesn't really know about 0.0 alliances, yet basing his judgement on them based on what he "hears" about them. If you're going to make a stand, at least know what you're talking about so you don't make a fool of yourself.
fathitman Gallente Woopatang The Red Skull	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:37:00 - [48] Come to 0.0, I love easy kills
Cybarite Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:45:00 - [49] to the OP, I can see where you're coming from, but you don't have all the info. The fact is that in order to operate in 0.0 you need to be able to secure some space, this usually means a whole region, or occasionally a dead end constelation. This takes numbers and organization, without it you'll just get rolled by the first group who does have it and wants the space you currently have for themselves. They're not always just taking it because they want it either, they may need it to provide for their own pilots having been kicked out of the space they previously occupied, or they may be a group thats outgrown Empire and NPC space and wants to start playing in the big leagues. Either way they're coming for you and they have a good enough reason. This situation shapes the politics of 0.0, there is only so much space, and their are plenty of people who want to exploit as much of it as possible. In this political environment only the most well organized and vicous player groups will be able to hold their own, anyone who doesn't make the cut gets knocked out of the game. This leads to strong groups holding area's of space, of nessecity these groups are made up of or at least contain a large number of highly aggressive pilots who's main goal is to kill as much and as often as possible. This leads to another reason why they attack on site: anyone you don't know could be a scout for the person who's coming to raid your space, or could even be scouting for an invasion fleet. Every 0.0 group knows this and in order to keep their income high they'll attempt to clear their borders of hostiles so their operations have less chance of being interupted, and will only accept entities within their space that are subservient to them. The point is that the devs made 0.0 and then handed it to the players, the result is what we have done with it. and honestly it's not that hard to get into, just don't plan on joining some invite only super elite PVP group, go check out EvE university, or agony unleashed, they actively recruit new players in order to teach them the ropes and how to PvP. ... Why do I PvP? Because I love the feeling I get when I see the pretty lights and know that someone somewhere is screaming incoherently at their computer screen.
Sarisel	Posted - 2008.01.13 03:19:00 - [50] Yay Feudalism
Revolution Rising Venture Research and Resources New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.01.13 19:35:00 - [51] To be frank, I've tried several and most are just glorified pirate alliances tbh. Most will chase anyone coming into their space out of their space into the next alliances' space and further. They don't talk before attacking or anything... etc... Perhaps it's just a question of the individual members being somewhat powerless to give consent for someone to enter space for a period of time. (I wonder if there's a post for the devs in there to ask for 1 hour +ve standings for individuals and corps). The only one I've found who isn't is CVA so far - and they are a little weird to deal with anyhow. (Altho I am far from checking out all of them). I agree with the sentiment of the OP, but not necessarily the details. VRR Homepage
Lysander Memnos The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:34:00 - [52] 0.0 space is in many ways analogous to the American Wild West during the initial expansion from the eastern seaboard. Small groups were often lost or killed; large groups would make claims on land that could not necessarily be enforced (size/geography or otherwise) but would act harshly if unwelcome guests were found. If you didn't bring item X you would not have it, unless you made it on-site. Any visitor was viewed as a potential intruder, because it was easier to steal something than build it. Neighbors were sometimes viewed as competition. Success brought more attention, and higher chances of unwelcome attention. The original poster clearly wants to go to 0.0 space but is put-off by the current tenants, who are concerned primarily with retention of their territory. Some of these tenants charge 'protection' or 'renters' fees, and obviously some of these tenants (and renters too!) don't always follow the rules. To that, I would say find another alliance to do business with and clearly state (in public) your reasons for doing so, with thorough documentation. Public opinion can be quite effective if wielded properly. To draw from the Wild West analogy again, new settlers were welcomed if they brought goods or means of support, brought means of defending the territory, or some other benefit to the existing landholder. The same applies to 0.0 space - it is unlikely that you or a small corporation will be able to muscle in to 0.0 by might, so convince the alliance that your inclusion has benefits.
5irmolle Evolution..	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:58:00 - [53] We may be able to help you out for the sum of 6 billion isk per month you may come live in the rich region of Delve for this measly sum you can rely on the BOB protection not to come help you and can also expect to be evicted when it suits us to do so as in 0.0 I AM THE LAW.
Nocturnal Avenger The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.01.14 22:07:00 - [54] Originally by: 5irmolle We may be able to help you out for the sum of 6 billion isk per month you may come live in the rich region of Delve for this measly sum you can rely on the BOB protection not to come help you and can also expect to be evicted when it suits us to do so as in 0.0 I AM THE LAW. Sounds reasonable - Carebear Pirate -
SKINK0428	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:25:00 - [55] Originally by: Dante Fugazi Eve is FULL of ore, minerals, gas clouds, etc. that can ONLY be accessed in 0.0... So anyone who is new to the game, by default is screwed out of ALL of this. I'm supposed to build my own 2000 man alliance and go to war with all of the older alliances, to get any of this? Or am I supposed to wait til I have the "minimum skill points required" to join them? Or better yet, for the invite only ones, I'm supposed to pull off the social engineering feat of the century and get myself accepted? Or is it that I'm supposed to just forget the whole idea, and stay in empire forever? Before anyone starts flaming me saying "noobs dont belong in 0.0" blah blah Everyone was once new, and even a player that has been in eve for a year or more, stands NO chance of fighting these guys without a HUGE alliance at their back. So that again raises my above questions. I know the next flame after that one will be "Just pay for access" WHY??? To be podded by their bored pilots, or the pirates who infultrate that territory? It seems to me that it's a flaw in the game mechanics, and a mistake which the outcome was never fully thought out by CCP. New players already get the "St end of the stick" all the way around. I guess until CCP decides to even the playing field somehow, all us "noobs" are supposed to sit in empire. And just for the fun of it, I'll answer flame #3 before it's even typed sure sure they're just defending "their" territory... I guess the rest of us are paying the same ammount to play, so that we can be screwed out of the better resources of the game. Could you imagine the sheer volume of kleenex that would be consumed by these same alliances who are the "owners" of 0.0 if the jovian's one day claimed all of 0.0 as THEIRS, podded everyone in 0.0 and started charging access, and still podded people at random when they got bored? Maybe thats what's needed, a world class smackdown to put some of the more pompous and arrogant alliances in their places. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that larger alliances work as a larger unit to defend sections of space, I just don't think It's right that anyone should be able to "own" a system, if there are resources that can ONLY be found there. I also think most of these guys have forgotten what it's like to be a new player. And just for the record, I can't remember the guy's name but I read a post stating something along the lines of "and if you are a new player you have no right to post in these forums." Oh gosh, I guess only the "leet uber" players that have been here forever have the "right" to post, and go to 0.0 and access all the benefits of 0.0, excuse me for helping to pay for your new expansion you arrogant P*k! Well we are a small corp 26 members but we are just forming an alliance with other corps and number over 300 when its formed this week! We have been in 0.0 for some time as this small corp that is only 3 months old, I myself am only a 2 month old player. We rent our space and moon for our current POS at a very reasonable rate that we can mine in dark glitter in 3 hrs for the month! We dnt have any trouble from the alliance we rent from, just the opposite there always willing to help when something happens in there space. I have good 1mill + rats to kill and faction spawns occasionally, good ore and ice to mine and to top it all off its 1000 X safer than low sec! We are going to push for our own system soon as an alliance as we will soon be strong enough to defend it! If we can do it so can you, so stop whinning and get on with the game.
Caliwyrm O'Libr Red Eye .Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.01 16:49:00 - [56] Originally by: Sicil Fioet You're painting a pretty grim picture of the game when I don't think you quite know what you're talking about. If your issues is that you can't be your own master in 0.0, either have to pay someone or join someone else, well that's because 0.0 space is something that requires teamwork, playing with other people. If you want to be your own boss you are indeed supposed to raise your own corporation and either fight for the space or apply to join an existing 0.0 alliance, basically you have to earn it. Nevertheless it is extremely easy. I've seen really crappy corporations with crappy leadership and noob players get into 0.0 and survive there for many months. And if they can do it, why can't you? This pretty much sums it up. 0.0 is all about TEAMWORK. I don't know of anyone who has ever built an outpost or titan completely by themselves. I've never seen anyone (successfully) fend off attacks on their space by themselves. You can either make your own team (and work to keep it together and focused) or you can join someone else's team. Either way, most 0.0 entities employ a "NBSI" policy (Not Blue, Shoot It) which effectively translates into "If you're not on my team you're an enemy and we'll kill you". That doesn't make them bullies. They're simply defending their space. Those that don't defend their space soon lose it. (FYI, if you're in a starter corp you're especially targeted for killing since alot of enemy spies/scouts are in starter corps) ======= Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand..
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.02.01 18:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Myth Al'kar We are not bullies. lol a hydra member posting about "we're not bullies"...i dont think that position needs to be defended, rly. Biggest carebear alliance holding 0.0 space is yours. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Revolution Rising Venture Research and Resources New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:20:00 - [58] Edited by: Revolution Rising on 03/02/2008 21:20:22 Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr This pretty much sums it up. 0.0 is all about TEAMWORK. I don't know of anyone who has ever built an outpost or titan completely by themselves. I've never seen anyone (successfully) fend off attacks on their space by themselves. You can either make your own team (and work to keep it together and focused) or you can join someone else's team. Either way, most 0.0 entities employ a "NBSI" policy (Not Blue, Shoot It) which effectively translates into "If you're not on my team you're an enemy and we'll kill you". That doesn't make them bullies. They're simply defending their space. Those that don't defend their space soon lose it. (FYI, if you're in a starter corp you're especially targeted for killing since alot of enemy spies/scouts are in starter corps) I completely disagree, I have lived around and in providence for about a year and have fought many different battles against lots of insurgents at various times. People I have fought with include CVA, IAC, NOS, Paxton etc.. etc.. I decided a while ago to get my alt-owned corp up and running and we have 4-5 people in it that have hulks and I'm finishing off my Rorqual training in order to move to 0.0. The part of 0.0 isn't owned by anyone but is near IAC and CVA space. I know I can jump the ship through Providence no problems, because they run NRDS. IAC however don't. so having fought on their side in the past, I figure upon seeing that they just reset standings in another forum that I might ask about +ve standings so we can just jump the ship through their space. the answer: no. under no circumstances. Which basically makes them glorified pirates imo. There's no real need to put my small 5 man corp at risk while we trade around the regions around them. We weren't after any type of access to their stations or anything else. Merely that we dont get ganked while travelling through the space that in the past as a "friendly neutral" we've helped hold. Either the problem is functional with regard to the system and the standings lists aren't big enough etc etc (yep heard it before). Or it's just that people prefer to be bullies, they prefer an air of obliterating small guys because they aren't worth dealing with and because "we can", but they'll make safe their space for their "allies" who are like-minded bullies that generally they are scared of or don't really wish to provoke in this same manner. Of course they're bullies, there's no other way to describe it. VRR Homepage
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.04 11:20:00 - [59] Someone seems to have null space confused with low sec. Killing is business and business is good.
SKINK0429 Ganymede Enterprises	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Revolution Rising Edited by: Revolution Rising on 03/02/2008 21:20:22 Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr This pretty much sums it up. 0.0 is all about TEAMWORK. I don't know of anyone who has ever built an outpost or titan completely by themselves. I've never seen anyone (successfully) fend off attacks on their space by themselves. You can either make your own team (and work to keep it together and focused) or you can join someone else's team. Either way, most 0.0 entities employ a "NBSI" policy (Not Blue, Shoot It) which effectively translates into "If you're not on my team you're an enemy and we'll kill you". That doesn't make them bullies. They're simply defending their space. Those that don't defend their space soon lose it. (FYI, if you're in a starter corp you're especially targeted for killing since alot of enemy spies/scouts are in starter corps) I completely disagree, I have lived around and in providence for about a year and have fought many different battles against lots of insurgents at various times. People I have fought with include CVA, IAC, NOS, Paxton etc.. etc.. I decided a while ago to get my alt-owned corp up and running and we have 4-5 people in it that have hulks and I'm finishing off my Rorqual training in order to move to 0.0. The part of 0.0 isn't owned by anyone but is near IAC and CVA space. I know I can jump the ship through Providence no problems, because they run NRDS. IAC however don't. so having fought on their side in the past, I figure upon seeing that they just reset standings in another forum that I might ask about +ve standings so we can just jump the ship through their space. the answer: no. under no circumstances. Which basically makes them glorified pirates imo. There's no real need to put my small 5 man corp at risk while we trade around the regions around them. We weren't after any type of access to their stations or anything else. Merely that we dont get ganked while travelling through the space that in the past as a "friendly neutral" we've helped hold. Either the problem is functional with regard to the system and the standings lists aren't big enough etc etc (yep heard it before). Or it's just that people prefer to be bullies, they prefer an air of obliterating small guys because they aren't worth dealing with and because "we can", but they'll make safe their space for their "allies" who are like-minded bullies that generally they are scared of or don't really wish to provoke in this same manner. Of course they're bullies, there's no other way to describe it. As far as I am aware CVA is in overall control of Providance I live there and 99% of the systems say soverignty:- CVA so I dnt know were you get the idea no one controls it from?
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:18:00 - [61] If 0.0 or low-sec would be as easy as OP wants it to be....that day i quit eve. If you take out all the risk and effort you have to put into getting into 0.0 - setting up a home there just to get acces to the riches of it then i would see no use of 0.0 at all and just put all the good ores and complexes in empire , wich will make the game BORING as hell. And the backstabbing you mentioned and all is also the best part of eve just as orethieves and scammers are. And just before the OP thinks i belong to one of the "bullies" , i am an empire carebear but i know my place in eve , maybe time for you to find out what is your place in this great universe.
Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.09 22:22:00 - [62] Some of us are fuzzy bunnies!! But seriously, anyone who thinks 0.0 is like gangland or some wild west has never lived out here. The prospect of 0.0 used to terrify me, but now I think empire is a steaming stew of scum and villany compared to most 0.0 space. Don't judge 0.0 by CAOD or the complaints of people being ganked in lowsec or 0.0 chokepoints. A lot of really good suggestions have been made in this thread. If you want to get into 0.0, try some of these. In general tho, you need to understand that in NBSI space, any non-blue is looking to: 1. shoot you 2. bait you to shoot you 3. scout you to shoot you 4. be shot at by you. It's pretty much a "if you behave, we'll behave, as long as we're blue" situation. There are other types of standings (NRDS comes to mind), but in general alliances aren't bullies, just very cautious. So, I suggest getting standings, operating out of NPC 0.0 for awhile, and learn the habits that keep out alive out here ;)
Darth Plague Amarr Centurians	Posted - 2008.02.12 18:18:00 - [63] Actualy the solution is very simple.There is such a gap between the older players and new players that the new players have no chance of ever being able to compete for 0.0 unless you can get 2k members. The only viable solution is to make another server so the new players can compete,where every one can start on even ground.The old players that control most if not all of 0.0 oppose this idea .You may ask why and the main reason is they make alot of isks off of the ppl who are trapped in empire.The large old alliances learned their lesson very well when the Goons left empire for low sec and 0.0 ,that is one of the reasons you see so many small griefer corps in empire so as to keep another empire corp or alliance from getting large enough to compete.One of the alarming things I have seen tends to be once a empire corp reaches around 100 members it is relentlessly war dec'ed out of existance.Because this keeps happening over and over and over it can be assumed that alot of these empire pirate corps were formed by the large 0.0 alliances just to make sure no one gets large enough to be able to compete in 0.0 . Darth Plague
Sexay Faye	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:19:00 - [64] Originally by: Darth Plague The only viable solution is to make another server ... Darth Plague thats a stupid idea and you should feel stupid
Darth Plague Amarr Centurians	Posted - 2008.02.13 02:12:00 - [65] By your very lame response you must be one of the older players .One of the ones that want to keep all the newer players trapped in empire so you can make some isks off of them.Starting up a new server would even the playing field for every one that wants to be able to start on even footing with every one else.I can understand why the older players don't want a new server because if they went there they wouldnt have the awsome advantages they have on the current server.I have around 2 and a half years in this game so far and I would leave the old server for a new one in a heart beat.Why? Because I would be able to start on a server where no one has a advantage. Darth Plague
Dionisius Gallente Critical Analysis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.13 06:01:00 - [66] Originally by: Darth Plague Actualy the solution is very simple.There is such a gap between the older players and new players that the new players have no chance of ever being able to compete for 0.0 unless you can get 2k members. The only viable solution is to make another server so the new players can compete,where every one can start on even ground.The old players that control most if not all of 0.0 oppose this idea .You may ask why and the main reason is they make alot of isks off of the ppl who are trapped in empire.The large old alliances learned their lesson very well when the Goons left empire for low sec and 0.0 ,that is one of the reasons you see so many small griefer corps in empire so as to keep another empire corp or alliance from getting large enough to compete.One of the alarming things I have seen tends to be once a empire corp reaches around 100 members it is relentlessly war dec'ed out of existance.Because this keeps happening over and over and over it can be assumed that alot of these empire pirate corps were formed by the large 0.0 alliances just to make sure no one gets large enough to be able to compete in 0.0 . Darth Plague That is not true mate, many new players can be successfull and gain access to 0.0 alliances or whatever they pretty much want. Its basicly a question of were your goals are at, you want to PVP?In 0.0?Lowsec? Build a corp? What kind of corp, pvp/merc/pirate/industrial? What do you want to do ? roleplay or just empire build and see were it leads you? Lots of new alliances poping up and with lots of new players in them. Pirates and wardecs in high sec have always existed and are part of the fun in the game. _____________________________________ I pay beer for new sig. - Sorry for the trouble Mits.
hezie99 Caldari KNIGHTS OF THE RED SUN Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.02.13 15:19:00 - [67] Originally by: Darth Plague By your very lame response you must be one of the older players .One of the ones that want to keep all the newer players trapped in empire so you can make some isks off of them.Starting up a new server would even the playing field for every one that wants to be able to start on even footing with every one else.I can understand why the older players don't want a new server because if they went there they wouldnt have the awsome advantages they have on the current server.I have around 2 and a half years in this game so far and I would leave the old server for a new one in a heart beat.Why? Because I would be able to start on a server where no one has a advantage. Darth Plague problems with that is it would leave alot of older players thinking they had wasted there time. just dont become like me im a true eve nomad u dont know where ill pop up next :P
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita The Reckoning.	Posted - 2008.02.13 15:21:00 - [68] Edited by: Janu Hull on 13/02/2008 15:21:56 Originally by: Darth Plague There is such a gap between the older players and new players that the new players have no chance of ever being able to compete for 0.0 unless you can get 2k members. HA! Wrong. I have 13 million skillpoints and I struggle a bit to keep the bills paid and the ships flying when things get hot in 0.0. One of the guys in my corp who's a nominal billionaire who manages to keep the industry machine running has two characters and never seems to be without a ship. His combat pilot, who's a better PvPer than I am, has 4 million skill points (he flies Interceptors, I fly Battleships). His industry toon has almost 7 million. Seven million skillpoints, and the man has run almost a dozen POSes while I was struggling with plexes. Skill points are an unbelievably superficial way of metering capability. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Phillip Stergo Minmatar Delta Network	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:40:00 - [69] Edited by: Phillip Stergo on 13/02/2008 18:49:20 Originally by: Dante Fugazi Where I come from if a schoolyard bully with 6 of his peon buddies says "give me your lunch money" you hand it to him with a big smile and come back with 12 of YOUR friends the next day to take it back in the price of blood. This type of thing happens here too, several alliances have this kind of attitude towards the guys that abuses the power that they are holding, and the bullies replies this attitude when they are sure that they will win, resulting a never-ending circle of violence. This is a violent game, and pending to be more rewarding to harsh people, as the real world. Well, saying this, I'll share a thinking that I had, If this resembles the real world, why must I loss time here, trying to deal with scammers, robbers, thieves, etc.? Bah, I'd rather do it in the real world then, so I'll take a real bullet in my head, dealing with this issues in the real life, trying to solve rl issues, doing something of meaning, instead to have a never ending stress in this game (coz u can't die here). I hope that someday CCP creates a part of the game that allows to the guy can be far from this schemes, if they wants and have enough intelligence/wisdom to do it. So, taking advantage of this opportunity, I inform to my known mates that I'm having a break of game. See ya.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.02.15 16:41:00 - [70] Originally by: Darth Plague By your very lame response you must be one of the older players .One of the ones that want to keep all the newer players trapped in empire so you can make some isks off of them.Starting up a new server would even the playing field for every one that wants to be able to start on even footing with every one else.I can understand why the older players don't want a new server because if they went there they wouldnt have the awsome advantages they have on the current server.I have around 2 and a half years in this game so far and I would leave the old server for a new one in a heart beat.Why? Because I would be able to start on a server where no one has a advantage. Darth Plague I really don't understand where you are getting this from.I am an empire carebear at the moment doing research and building.I have about 20 mille in skillpoints.I lived in pure blind for over a year without too many blue standings ..when my character had 6 million skillpoints and in a small corp. What i am trying to say is that skillpoints doesn't have to predict the region you live in.It's your own choice and you have ALL the opportunities to go to 0.0 even as a younger eve player.You just have to think about what you want and how you can get there. As mentioned i really really don't know where you guys are getting all this 'only the big skillpointers have 0.0 acces' from because i have never had any problems regarding my skillpoints deciding if i should have acces to 0.0 or not.Sure bigger alliances control larger parts and can 'harass' you but hey they started out small too.
gpfault Muppet Brigade	Posted - 2008.02.16 09:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Darth Plague By your very lame response you must be one of the older players .One of the ones that want to keep all the newer players trapped in empire so you can make some isks off of them.Starting up a new server would even the playing field for every one that wants to be able to start on even footing with every one else.I can understand why the older players don't want a new server because if they went there they wouldnt have the awsome advantages they have on the current server.I have around 2 and a half years in this game so far and I would leave the old server for a new one in a heart beat.Why? Because I would be able to start on a server where no one has a advantage. Darth Plague Sounds great, now I can get 2000 noobs together and take over 0.0. I guess CCP will have to make another server so the noobs a fair chance. Then I can do it again, and again, and again until I realise I'm playing WoW in space. This is a stupid idea and you should feel stupid.
Lara Renquist Minmatar The Phoenix Confederacy	Posted - 2008.02.19 07:57:00 - [72] If you are not able to force your way into 0.0 or negotiate (either way, i prefer the pew pew) then you A: Don't belong in 0.0 B: Don't belong in EvE Do you have any idea about the history of some terretory's? blood has been spilled in abundance, you cannot expect to be at the same par as the big alliances. You cannot expect them to move aside to let new players get a shot. Simply put, give me 1 mmo heck even 1 online game where you as the so called "Newbie" are allowed to place yourself against the big players... let alone give you some of there terretory. (btw. i smell wow in many posts) Commanding officer Of The Phoenix Confederacy
Oloran Tadin	Posted - 2008.02.20 11:33:00 - [73] Originally by: Darth Plague By your very lame response you must be one of the older players .One of the ones that want to keep all the newer players trapped in empire so you can make some isks off of them.Starting up a new server would even the playing field for every one that wants to be able to start on even footing with every one else.I can understand why the older players don't want a new server because if they went there they wouldnt have the awsome advantages they have on the current server.I have around 2 and a half years in this game so far and I would leave the old server for a new one in a heart beat.Why? Because I would be able to start on a server where no one has a advantage. Darth Plague Firstly, WoW is that way ----> Secondly, I'm gonna give you two examples of alliances who started in lowsec/NPC space and who turned out to be 0.0 landowners now. The first one is GoonSwarm who proved that even noobs with 1Mil SP can fly a frigate with a scram and be usefull in combat. Concerning their territory...well, just take a look at the map. The second one is BRUCE, they started out in syndicate and started growing and organising. Then when the time was right, they took their chance and now own a huge part of the Fountain region. I'm sorry that for some of you EVE doesn't have an easy mode and you actually have to work to achieve something for a change. I suggest if you can't handle it, just leave and don't come back. Cheers
Captain Ferros Caldari Expeditionary Fleet 1 Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.21 16:45:00 - [74] My corporation is living proof that you dont need 2k members for 0.0 access. Imagine this... a corp started in Feb 2006, by 3 week old noobs. We began doing what was needed. mission running, money making, empire mining... and growing on our way by accepting those who were willing to work hard. We then had a good number of battleship/battlecruiser pilots, looking now to expand to low/0.0 Feb 2007, we became rentors of ka-tet. How? amazing how people will pauseand not kill you if you fly up to a shuttle and speak in local about wanting to talk to a diplomat :P We did the possible, and joined in under a 100 milllion a week rent as it was back then. We became a founding corp of te-ka...and built our first capital and in Jan 2008, we became a member of ka-tet, and we are still growing, looking at outpost ownership We are proof that 0.0 access is not as grim as you say. --------------- Captain Ferros Command Fleet Admiral Admin Fleet Cmdr Expeditionary Fleet 1 Ka-tet
Deathifier Minmatar Carebears Must Die Ltd.	Posted - 2008.02.21 22:22:00 - [75] Originally by: Captain Ferros My corporation is living proof that you dont need 2k members for 0.0 access. Imagine this... a corp started in Feb 2006, by 3 week old noobs. We began doing what was needed. mission running, money making, empire mining... and growing on our way by accepting those who were willing to work hard. We then had a good number of battleship/battlecruiser pilots, looking now to expand to low/0.0 Feb 2007, we became rentors of ka-tet. How? amazing how people will pauseand not kill you if you fly up to a shuttle and speak in local about wanting to talk to a diplomat :P We did the possible, and joined in under a 100 milllion a week rent as it was back then. We became a founding corp of te-ka...and built our first capital and in Jan 2008, we became a member of ka-tet, and we are still growing, looking at outpost ownership We are proof that 0.0 access is not as grim as you say. Not bad renting a 0.0 system for under 100 mil a month. I know of several alliances holding low sec systems in placid that charge several hundred million isk per month for access. and tbh, you won't make much more mining rocks in low sec than highsec
Havohej The Defias Brotherhood ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.02.23 21:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Chucky 0.0 blows since the new sovereignty rules, only very large alliances have the recourses to take and hold regions. Only 0.0 has the resources to build a very large alliance. Much like life the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. The first part was right-ish, the last part was wrong. The rich get richer until the poor corps/alliances, having taken their time, laid careful plans, networked with other poor corps/alliances, toiled under the rich alliances (as renters/pets/whatever you want to call it) or made friends among those alliances in order to coexist as genuine friends (easier than you'd think - you just have to learn how to play in the great sandbox) finally have all their ducks in a row and can rise up into a position of power, assured of the support of their friends and allies. Suggested reading: "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli, "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene.
Termina Pax R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.25 22:26:00 - [77] Zero-Zero is just fine. Way less un-sequenced genetrash tryin to scam ya too. Just gotta lose yer fear, ya know? Maybe train up fer covert-ops and explore it yerself kinda immune and ya don't even need to join nobody yet. And NOBODY f'in ransoms in 0.0 unless yer some total tool corp that's gotta dread in some hostile station after a standings reset. Jump on in, the water's fine . . . .
Arelius Sarum Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:08:00 - [78] Most alliances, certainly the major ones, will kill you on sight if you enter their space so you don't have to worry about paying "protection". I welcome you if you try to come and stomp us though. We could always use the extra pew pew. Per Ardua ad Astra - Through Adversity, to the Stars
Centurion Clorell	Posted - 2008.02.28 23:45:00 - [79] End of the day 0.0 is like the old wild west. Now these large (and small) alliances who operate there have their own different rules regarding recruitment, diplomacy, naps etc specifically designed to benefit them. The individual may not like it but in the grand scheme of things it benefits all those involved with the alliance. Without the rules it would be anarchy every man for himself and nobody would benefit from 0.0. It's not bullying it's the law of the land, and the peeps who are in the large alliances setting the rules where like you at some point and had to start at the bottom rung of the ladder and work their way up. As for noobs going into 0.0, loads of alliances recruit noobs however some have a waiting period b4 you join. The reason being is to benefit you if you went out in a tech 1/2 ship with poor skills it wouldn't be long b4 you get shot down by an npc or even a pvper then where would you be? Already been said their not bullies, they're just careful in who they trust with what has taken them so long to get.
Moggy TheCat Arte et Labore	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:30:00 - [80] i was thinking for a long time if to reply or say nothing in this thread But there are some points that makes this subject "bullies or not" interesting. If I want to be diplomatic i should not answer at all, but if you take RL there is much to say first of all, its all bull**** about "its easy to join or first live in NPC 00" (there is a big ROFL) some alliances claim that they are not bullies and wrote as the sun comes out of their ass, because they need the reputation, but inside their space, their is nothing like their writing..... other alliances are straight forward and say YES we are, thats what we can live with no corners no catch, but they are the same OLD Ally way "its mine and we dont share". anyway whats all about these 00-ally`s ? Are their founder ( skill Megacorp V ) still in this Ally or was these ally founded by a char who sold this service because the lack of skills and time ( it would be funny to see what happend if ccp declares that all will be terminated if one or more basic condition are missing) [ie. 1- if the standing for the highsec pos went missing the pos goes offline 2- if the Alliance founder leaves the Alliance (or the skill went missing, the Alliance will be terminated. 3- if within the corp the corporation management is missing because ceo leaves and no one has the skill to do the job, the corp will be terminated and so on...] Are these Ally`s are carebears ? do not allow small corps to use "their" unused space because this small corp could be an enemy or too dangerous for them? on the other hand they do allow bigger corps to join because they need cannon fodder for their fun (roaming gangs) or wars i know about all these smacktalks ,border skirmish, the roaming gangs, and all whats about the logistics the team work, but i which that all these fabulous leaders and diplomat¦s thinks back to the times when they were noobs, back to the time when the new regions grew and had to be claimed one hand gives the other hand, one man could fight, the other one could build they were working together. but now they have their pets ( they dont know that they are pets because they have some income) a few ppl get all the wealth claiming one sys after another or just saying we control this area ( npc 00 ) BUT WHY much of all these systems are unused and some systems are only on temporarily usage or even unclaimed in "their" space to give a statement to a single player, yes it is easy to get into 00 to give a statement to a corp under 5 player, NOWAY these 00-alliances are not able to think about basics, quality and teamwork they just see what they have and who is the next "red" or neutral and they dont like any independence in their own lines or why should they recruit new players but no new corp und 15 ppl?? Back to the roots ! this game is not all about some belt-rats or plexes sure some fast isk , who will say "no" but there is more, invention , reactions, building, at least explorations take your time and have a look around the toys you use, what are the requirements to build it ? u can`t go and build a titan or a mom easily No that requires a building, which requires some souverenity which requires ... and so on and this is not only on those ships, there are even more types of modules buildings and minerals. sure some will say " what are u talking about" we have a production chain i dont need to think about sure some will say we dont need it we have enuogh pew pew for it but for how long?? a year or 2 ,a month ... if all 00 Alliances are still on their point as they are atm. it will be a short time take a look inside your ally , your corp there are only a few ppl who are thinking about other things than boring belt-rats and quick iskies
Cautet Precision Engineering Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.04 12:54:00 - [81] Edited by: Cautet on 04/03/2008 12:59:06 1. If you want to just get yourself into a Corp in any old 0.0 Alliance as a low skilled player it's not very difficult. I think eve university should be the first step on this road, to get the knowledge and understanding that will mean a potential alliance won't have to babysit your arse. 2. If you want to get your corp into a 0.0 Alliance it is much more difficult. There are good reasons for this, but mostly it's because you control who is in your corp better, so the less corps in an alliance is better, so each corp needs good attitude, good control, and good numbers. To be honest, from the comments made in the opening post, i'm not sure that you really understand what 0.0 is, or rather what it can be. Living in 0.0 is expensive for the individual, and also usually for the corps and the alliances, unless you join a carebear alliance who controls space that no-one else wants, in which case you can make around the same isk in empire. Yes, if alliance controls some good moons it can make some decent isk, but alliances also face huge costs for living in 0.0 and have to made substantial logistical military and time investments. To be honest if you are just interested in making isk then stay in empire. You can make more money trading and missioning without the risk. For the person who mentioned about empire wardecs - it's not some grand conspiracy. If you see a corp with 50 to 100 members stuck in empire alot of people see a nice big tasty target. If you see this as a bad thing you are a nice big tasty target, and the corp isn't ready for even lowsec, let alone 0.0 In 0.0 you should be ready to fight for every scrap and then fight to keep it. You should enjoy the fighting and become bored and listless when local is blue. The sight of a drake or raven on scan should make you drool and hunger.
Nick Bison	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:42:00 - [82] Edited by: Nick Bison on 21/04/2008 19:42:48 Originally by: Moggy TheCat i was thinking for a long time if to reply or say nothing in this thread ... take a look inside your ally , your corp there are only a few ppl who are thinking about other things than boring belt-rats and quick iskies By God, Sir. I am glad you decided to write. Your missive should be a preamble for all to read whether they are living in 0.0 or intend to some day.
WishBlade Caldari Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.22 08:34:00 - [83] Topic trolls, and drags. -1
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:31:00 - [84] Originally by: Dante Fugazi I'm pretty new to eve, but after talking to many people in game, and reading the forums a pretty clear picture of 0.0 alliances is starting to come together for me. Stop me if I'm wrong, and please enlighten my ignorance if that is the case. Am I the only one who see's 0.0 alliance as schoolyard bullies, and lying thieves? No you are not the only one to see this. Quote: Sure you can pay not to be podded (dirty and underhanded mob tactics) but the moment one of their pilots get bored, your toast regaurdless of whether you payed their "protection fee" if you can call it that, as it's not protection, just a half promise not to pod you (maybe). It seems the larger the alliance, the more dirty and underhanded they are, claiming entire regions as their property, charging higher "protection" fee's. Taking the territorial principle from the dirtside planetary enclosures into space on the frontier. If you are weak enough to be bullied into paying "protection money" what makes you think the bullies will ever stop asking for more? Quote: Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks these guys need to be wiped out. No, you are not the only one who thinks that. But thinking that doesn't make it happen - arm yourself friend, learn guerrilla techniques, hit and run, survival and temper your heart because you are going to have get a lot of killing done before the dawn comes to this long night of the human soul. Quote: Are there alliances trying to stomp these guys for the sake of doing the right thing? or is it just other bullies trying to take over so they can be the new bully? 99% of 0.0 is bullies fighting bullies for bullying rights. Make yourself part of the 1% and fight back. Nobody can free you from the outside. CSM Election Manifesto 2008
BOldMan Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:17:00 - [85] In fact behavior of aliances is perfect natural. Only a singural person cannot understand what mean people grouping toghether to complete higher tasks. Just join to an alliance, live and work (yes, a ccp mistake induce in this game) for few months, and you will understand why you need to kill and harras everything is not blue to you. And thinking they are bullies when they isk charge or killed you when get in their space, well, this is sparta.
TrevHead Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:10:00 - [86] 0.0 is great and having low skillpoints isnt as much of a handicap as u think, aslong as u are with good ppl who work together. The hardest part about 0.0 is ppls fear of it. I was in 0.0 when i was only a couple of months old. Alot of my corpies at that time where noobs who where alittle older then me but they just stayed in empire running missions because they were too scared to fly the nest. I made loads of isk and enjoyed pvp when a big war started of which we lost in the end. Apart from pvping i lost only 1 hauller in the whole 3 to 4 months i was up there, because i wasnt scared of 0.0 and took every percaution to keep safe eg safespot,check local,use intel channel. My corpies in empire where always skint cos they were losing ships in lv4 missions and some of em quit the game because of that. If only they would of opened their minds up and loosed the fear.
Xelous Rampart Shield	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:36:00 - [87] I can only agree with the OP: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=759851
Nithon Minmatar 7th Space Cavalry R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.05 15:16:00 - [88] Originally by: Darth Plague Actualy the solution is very simple.There is such a gap between the older players and new players that the new players have no chance of ever being able to compete for 0.0 unless you can get 2k members. .... i iz 5month old i iz in 0.0 i haz fun :) Also ... Possum !!! Nithon
Admiral Derooy Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.05.06 15:29:00 - [89] Quote: Some of us are fuzzy bunnies!! I strongly object!!
Ferkimer Burns Perkone	Posted - 2008.05.06 20:44:00 - [90] You have my permission to bully them right back.
Bombacla Gallente Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2008.05.08 19:39:00 - [91] Edited by: Bombacla on 08/05/2008 19:40:30 3 months old, been living in O.O (outer ring) for 2 months. Member of a small corp that does it's own thing, not a member of an alliance. so yeah...
Sophia Furies Gallente The Circle STYX.	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:38:00 - [92] So many bullies in 0.0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crazy Apple
Rollerrat	Posted - 2008.05.15 06:23:00 - [93] I'm not sure if some people realize this: But a group of 50 active players can be a mighty power in EVE nearly regardless of skill points. If they played together in say level 4 missions for 4 hours every day for a single week. Their corp \ alliance can be richer then most 0.0 alliances. Now they cant compete with cap fleets since they cant pilot capships. But that doesnt stop them from joining them. Any Corp\Alliance doing this would be able to buy new ships for their members. Heck, 50 players playing for 4 hours\day for a week is enough to finance a war and take 0.0 space for themselves. Say you make 15m\hour in level 4's. 5015=750m\hour 75020h=15b Say you loose 25m per fully fitted fully insured unrigged BS you loose. 15000/25=600 battleships to loose. And this is ignoring all profits of war (destroyed enemies) and loot\salvage recovered from your own ships. In reality 15b should be able to pay off an absolute MINIMUM of 1000 ships.
patteSatan Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.22 08:54:00 - [94] 0.0 alliances are just the weak spoiled bastard childrens of CCP.
posteroid im right your wrong	Posted - 2008.05.22 19:34:00 - [95] There is so much RL money to be made from eve that most of the 0.0 alliances are led by these profit makers and ofc the more space they own the more money they make.
Rajere No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 06:18:00 - [96] Quote: I'm not sure if some people realize this: But a group of 50 active players can be a mighty power in EVE nearly regardless of skill points. If they played together in say level 4 missions for 4 hours every day for a single week. Their corp \ alliance can be richer then most 0.0 alliances. Now they cant compete with cap fleets since they cant pilot capships. But that doesnt stop them from joining them. Any Corp\Alliance doing this would be able to buy new ships for their members. Heck, 50 players playing for 4 hours\day for a week is enough to finance a war and take 0.0 space for themselves. Say you make 15m\hour in level 4's. 5015=750m\hour 75020h=15b Say you loose 25m per fully fitted fully insured unrigged BS you loose. 15000/25=600 battleships to loose. And this is ignoring all profits of war (destroyed enemies) and loot\salvage recovered from your own ships. In reality 15b should be able to pay off an absolute MINIMUM of 1000 ships. wasn't sure if this was a troll attempt or if you were serious, but if you are, you should know that 15b isn't much to a 0.0 space holding Alliance. What takes you're 50man group 1000 man hours to earn, an alliance can make by simply fueling 2-3 POSes and collecting the high end minerals that were mined and hauling it up to jita, ie ~3-4 man hours per month, leaving 997 hours in which to kill your "1000" ships costing you another 1000 man hours to replace. Also corps/alliances help out with logistics/production/etc, but generally players are ultimately responsible for their ships. If someone else was covering the cost of all my losses, I'd have lost 100x as many ships, and I lose alot of ships already. Notoriety Alliance Recruitment
KingOzar Brute Strength THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.06 06:23:00 - [97] We fight, die, and hold our space. We have the right to do what we want in 0.0.
Kai Jyokoroi The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.06.06 16:18:00 - [98] Jesus Christ, call a waaaaahmbulace why don't you. I went to 0.0 3 years ago with 1.5 mil SP. Six months later I was leading a 20 strong pvp 0.0 corporation. Stop whining, learn to pvp, bide your time, and make it happen. It's like going to WoW and saying you want level 70 and full legendary set-up within 2 or 3 months.
Deldrac Bat Country Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.06.15 20:06:00 - [99] Talk to the sovreignty holders before you move in, there are areas that operate on a NRDS (not red don't shoot) policy, as a new person you'll likely be viewed with suspicion, but ask what the local etiquette is and you'll be fine. If anyone is demanding what you see as unreasonable fees for 0.0 access, just move right along. There is a lot of 0.0 space.
Lith Fael Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.17 09:47:00 - [100] Edited by: Lith Fael on 17/06/2008 09:49:36 You have to think of the 0.0 space as a savage frontier land, where every alliance claimed space sector is like an real earth country/kingdom, which has to deal with its neighbors, either friendly or aggressive, has to deal with invaders, traitors, spies, and all that drama stuff. The 0.0 space is not just a play field to go have fun in like in most mmos or even empire in eve, its mostly completely player run, and thats the point of it. What you can not expect is for them to just ignore a complete stranger wandering into their home, and taking their stuff. Like in the real world. The roid ores and moon ores are finite resources. One thing I noticed reading the pages here is that people talk about 0.0 npc space, which may not be clear to you. It's easy to confuse that 0.0 with true 0.0, at least until you notice that the 0.0 that has normal names is not really 0.0, more like 0.05. Look for the systems with names like fp-32s, ae4-sd, 17c-r3, and other seemingly random letter names, and you'll likely be in full 0.0. That being said.. the bully types (aka pirates) generally are in the 0.05 and up, or the borders of 0.0 near those areas (until a defense force comes along and slaps them around.) Personally I got in a midway deep 0.0 corp with less than 1mil skill points when i started out, and got rich (for a newb) pretty quick solo mining or ratting (plus corp ops). The recruitment channel has some of these easier to join corps looking for people, and the recruitment forums here have em.. Just be sure to try to get a picture of what they are doing before jumping in.. last thing you want is to join a corp.. that gets the russians deciding to invade 2 days later. Ouch. Doomsdays hurt. Note: Views expressed are my own and are no way a reflection of any corporation or alliance ties that may be involved.
Nadeuh Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2008.06.18 17:21:00 - [101] After the Faction war patch, 0.0 is just another way to live in EVE. Either u like it or don't. Do whatever u wanna do with EVE and make your choices from that. Carebear, pirate, sign up for faction war, empire, 0.0 - whatever Lots of ways u can go, and u can allways take a turn at some point u wanna hit another road. Only of the many great things about EVE. Freedom!!! But living in 0.0 is not a right u can claim.. Its a privileged and something u need to fight for. Everybody!! But it doesn't make u a bully . Not more of a bully that u can become in empire
Morgenrei Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.06.18 19:39:00 - [102] But NBSI is some kind of iron curtain. It¦s just a documentation, that an alliance holds a bigger area than it can really secure. What makes sense if you administrate a region, but can¦t be gentle and provide freedom and dynamic competition, that means -be REALLY souveraign-? (Just read lots from the star fraction recently ) Being a caretaker is definitively better than being an occupant.
Kalana Eargon	Posted - 2008.06.19 03:56:00 - [103] I've been around Providence region for the past week not allied to anyone and I haven't been shot at by any people that control that region, I was only shot at once by some common pirates. There is a truth to what your saying though, noobs can't survive in 0.0, you know why because those that do survive leave there noobness behind when they pay attention to local, check if there was recent traffic, dont fly PvE ships into blind systems. It doesn't matter what your actual SP is really, you can still be a noob and do stuff in 0.0. 1) Join an alliance yourself - Why the hell don't you just join one thats right for you or start your own corporation and join one. There are PLENTY of corps that allow freedom you just have to open the door. Your mind is blocked by the propaganda that people tell you, you probably want to believe this to complain about your recent losses or failures but you really just need to stop. 2) Everyone in this game started as a noob, it's those that change and stop being a noob that become leaders out in 0.0 and live out there. It's not hard to start your own corporation and grow with it like they did, the only thing is you want what they have fast and they worked there way slowly to it. 3) Most people in alliances aren't "bullies" they are just following orders and protecting there way of life. Do you just let people you don't know into your house that you built, no you don't, and there not going to let people into there region that they worked and still work very hard to maintain. Pirates can easily just put "CVA friendly" on there bio and come in a blow miners up, those "bullies" your talking about risk there ships to protect others they play with. You obviously know that you will die out there and most people will warn you before you go out there. You know its lawless territory but you still want there to be peace... it doesn't matter if there anti-pirate or pirates alliances are going to protect what is rightfully theirs. So you know what stop complaining and go do something about it, "we pay just as much to play" ok then well those that are better than you have payed more than you so far, and those that truly have payed just as much as you had the same chance and look were they are and now look were you are. You knew or should have know what you were paying for to begin with. You know what come down to Providence sometime and test your luck, i've gone through many gate camps and never been shot at by CVA or allies because they know a good person when they see one, now if you have low sec status there going to kill you and if you are mean there going to kill you. When you enter there protected territory you need to pay them something (respect, money, friendship), you don't just have an army for a nation and not pay them anything and just expect them to protect you, same with police. Here are your main choices to deal with this "problem": Join an alliance that suits you, Create an alliance and attack them, Create a corporation and join them, create an alliance and ally with them, find a friendly 0.0 area to go to. Oh and for your SP req. problem, there actually doing you a favor, if you don't have 3-5mil SP then you will get ganked by rats and can't do anything out there, you will be murdered by pirates. Your trying to say that noobs with 1.2mil SP should be able to join any corp they want just because they want to, well that doesn't seem fair... so with that logic your saying that I shouldn't be able to pick who I play with then. Yes noobs do belong in Empire until they can stop being a noob, being a noob isn't judged by your SP it's judged on how you play the game. Once you've realized how the game works and work with it to get what you want instead of complaining and asking for people to fix it then your not a noob. Please do go ahead and criticize what I just said or question it I will answer all questions I see, well if I can find this again, it usually takes me a while to find certain topics
Camille Breeze	Posted - 2008.06.19 12:24:00 - [104] To the OP and any low sp newbies wanting to move to 0.0. All those corps advertising that they're recruiting 4-5+ mil sp (some 10mil+ or even higher) players really have a point in doing so. 0.0 isn't a carebear land like empire. Sure there's 1+mil rats on the belts and the high end ores, but I don't really see someone under 2mil sp killing those, unless he decided to screw the learning skills and went for a BS in the first place. An avarage pvp oriented player (if you don't want pvp then stay in empire) with 5mil sp probably does have a BS trained, which allows him to make money by himself, and preferably interceptors. Becouse lets put it this way, flying T1 ships in a roaming gang (that's mostly what you do for pvp in 0.0) is laughable. Only thing they're good for is cheap cannon fodder or remote boosters, becouse coupled with the low SP they don't have the dps to take anything on.
Lith Fael Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.06.19 18:29:00 - [105] Edited by: Lith Fael on 19/06/2008 18:30:50 Originally by: Camille Breeze To the OP and any low sp newbies wanting to move to 0.0. All those corps advertising that they're recruiting 4-5+ mil sp (some 10mil+ or even higher) players really have a point in doing so. 0.0 isn't a carebear land like empire. Sure there's 1+mil rats on the belts and the high end ores, but I don't really see someone under 2mil sp killing those, unless he decided to screw the learning skills and went for a BS in the first place. Actually very low SP players are quite handy to have around.. cheap pods (for quick travel), and the losses from getting blownup/podded are minimal.. so they make most excellent scouts or frig fleets. On the other hand they won't be able to do much solo, thats true. So depends on the corp and its people. Also I was down solo mining and ratting (slowly, and I went for bs before learning) in 0.0 at less than 1 mil sp - its all about knowing how to take advantage of the AI's behaviors and game mechanics (without exploiting) to optimize your activities. I had came up with a very clever semi-ninja mining tactic that let me mine for hours in a scythe without the rats doing much to me heh Note: Views expressed are my own and are no way a reflection of any corporation or alliance ties that may be involved.
Slayfoe's Bull Mnemonic Enterprises New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.06.20 13:59:00 - [106] Originally by: Sicil Fioet In EVE might is right... the moral principles of real life are not applicable. That is simply wrong. Morality doesn't depend on context, being a good person (or conversely a bad person) doesn't depend on whether the actions that bring it about are digital or physical. Just because you can doesn't mean that you should. Nicely portrayed in a film called Schindler's List - have a look at the scene where the camp commander takes pot shots at the inmates when drunk. Still looking for a fun corp that doesn't believe in griefing.
Resipsa Loquitor Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.06.21 03:52:00 - [107] Not sure how the OP got the opinion that people aren't welcome into 0.0? We love when visitors come! In fact, we like it when they bring really well-fitted ships with plenty of high end equipment and faction modules. We enjoy having Spartan contests with our visitors and then having a drink together with our new 0.0 friends down at the pub, if they're willing to stick around afterwards. Come on over! The regions are fine!!! ---
Ava Santiago	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:44:00 - [108] Originally by: Jinn AsaniQui It's simple really... Either you have power and welth, or you dont. There is no middleground in EVE, (atleast thats my opinion). Most financial transactions occur in Empire space. Most sales occur in empire space. The money is is empire space. The power is in 0.0 - because it means you can sell even more valuable goods in empire space. Dread Complex loot is offloaded in Jita - not the "alliance Space" it was acquired in. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Ava Santiago	Posted - 2008.06.24 03:46:00 - [109] Originally by: Kai Jyokoroi Jesus Christ, call a waaaaahmbulace why don't you. I went to 0.0 3 years ago with 1.5 mil SP. Six months later I was leading a 20 strong pvp 0.0 corporation. Stop whining, learn to pvp, bide your time, and make it happen. It's like going to WoW and saying you want level 70 and full legendary set-up within 2 or 3 months. If you can't get this in WoW in this time frame, you need to learn how to play RPG MMO's. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Zostera	Posted - 2008.08.14 11:54:00 - [110] As a very new player to EVE (1st month of paid account) I have a very different opinion than the OP. In this reply I speak only for myself and not my Corp or Alliance. EVE Alliances have fought for the space they "own", investing huge amounts of EVE resources and their own personal time to build the network of logistics and defence fleets to support their claim to space. So why would they open themselves to the risk of losing that? I appreciate that travelling in 0.0 can be tough if you do not have friendly standings with the owners, so priority one is to either use diplomacy to get friendly standings for your corp in a region where you can operate, or if you are a solo player you should apply to one of the alliance corps as a member. But don't expect this to come freely. You moving into an area will reduce the resources available to the host alliance, the resources they fight hard to defend, so it is entirely reasonable that you be asked to provide something in return. That, as they say, is life. My own route into 0.0 began as a new player 5 days into free trial. I realised Empire was not the game environment I would be happy spending time in and 0.0's mix of diplomacy, war, mining and manufacture based entirely on player effort was where I wanted to be. So 7 days into EVE with less than 1 mil SP I found myself in NPC 0.0 flying a tackle fitted Rifter on my first PvP roam, and I haven't looked back. For sure I can't rat in a frigate, but fit a salvager and ask your corp mates if you can salvage their rat wrecks. Doing an hour of this each day and contracting the salvage up to Empire for sale makes more than enough money for skill books and ship replacement. Financial losses are low, you don't need a huge income to support it. By choosing this route I have something to offer, an extra point in combat and I get to experience the intensity of 0.0 life. As some other posters have said it is teamwork that counts, so work hard for the team, offer what you can, be prepared to lose a ship get podded and jump into another ship and rejoin the action asap whenever required. Do this and you will earn the respect of your corpmates and alliance and find a platform to build on for your own plans in EVE. Good luck.
Endometriosis Minmatar R.u.S.H. - Fanatics Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2008.08.15 20:40:00 - [111] only read op You shouldnt be able to pay for system access to large 0.0 alliances. Because all said alliances have a not blue shoot it policy ---------------------- Darkelf > sigh... have u not noticed how crap ur ship is with those stabs on? polestar > i suck no matter wtf i have on m8
Divad Ginleek Gallente Gateway Industries House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.08.16 15:35:00 - [112] To the OP: 0.0 alliances make heavy investments to get their names on the "sovereignty" info of the systems they own. Its the way the game is designed. think of 0.0 like the New World in the 15-1600's, and belt rats/smaller corps + alliances like indians. The large powers (British Empire, Spain etc) come in and destroy everything in their way to claim the territory as their own. this is how 0.0 is, unclaimed by the NPC factions, thus up for grabs. an alliance that holds space is its own faction, like Amarr, Gallente, etc. So you ask how they can "own" a system and refuse access... the answer is BECAUSE CCP DESIGNED THE GAME THAT WAY... duh? It's not like other carebear MMOs where no player has the "right" to deny access to game content and you can complain to GMs to have them banned. If you don't like the system, A) go play another game, or B) do what you said. create a 2000 man alliance and cleanse 0.0 of all the big meanies (it would be interesting to see how you deal with squatters and spies if you hold space.) But that would take work, so i guess option A is more your speed. ::insert witty signature here::
Holy Lowlander Aurora Acclivitous Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.08.20 08:23:00 - [113] There are neutral friendly 0.0 area's tough. CVA and its allies hold a region under Amarr called 'providence' . In this region NRDS is active. Wich means Not red don't shoot. Neutrals can go there are rat , mine or even pewpew against people red to CVA and its allies. People shooting non-reds will be set red by CVA and its allies , making you another target . be aware tough , we have these lovely russian neighbours that like to pewpew in providence . to put it in a roleplaying perspective , These lovely russians are the bullies and you are the guy that needs 12 friends to kick their asses :)
John Blackthorn Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.08.20 19:28:00 - [114] Bottom line is that most alliances compete against other alliances for resources such as rare moon minerals. Those rare moon minerals make billions of isk and thus is easy isk that can be used to buy things with with little investment. As for neutrals the alliance membership just doesn't know if you truly are a netural just wanting to ran around in 0.0 a little bit or if you are there to attack someone in the alliance controlled space.
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.22 12:44:00 - [115] Originally by: Kalana Eargon stuff respectfully sir , you don`t quite get CVA and i would personally ask you to do youre reading before posting here . This is just a personal request though.
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.08.29 01:18:00 - [116] Originally by: Darth Plague Actualy the solution is very simple.There is such a gap between the older players and new players that the new players have no chance of ever being able to compete for 0.0 unless you can get 2k members. The only viable solution is to make another server so the new players can compete,where every one can start on even ground.The old players that control most if not all of 0.0 oppose this idea .You may ask why and the main reason is they make alot of isks off of the ppl who are trapped in empire.The large old alliances learned their lesson very well when the Goons left empire for low sec and 0.0 ,that is one of the reasons you see so many small griefer corps in empire so as to keep another empire corp or alliance from getting large enough to compete.One of the alarming things I have seen tends to be once a empire corp reaches around 100 members it is relentlessly war dec'ed out of existance.Because this keeps happening over and over and over it can be assumed that alot of these empire pirate corps were formed by the large 0.0 alliances just to make sure no one gets large enough to be able to compete in 0.0 . Darth Plague Did you ever stop to notie that one of the most powerfull alliances in game is an alliance that started not so logn ago made 100% of noobs, was laughed at from beign a noobpack and they proved that people like you are COMPLETELY WRONG ? SP are among the LEAST meaningful things on this game. ownership of rare moons t2 bpos those are the advantages really hard to overcome. But SP are not because thsoe old players are all gainign skils on beign able to fly more ships but they are not getting any beter on flying Battleships anymore. So in 6 -7 months you are exaclty as good as they are on battleship helm.
Morgenrei Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.08.31 11:43:00 - [117] Great Wildlands is also a place to live in for a neutral....when you avoid the roaming gangs regularly coming from other 0.0 areas. Not many people have the free-space-thinking. Pity, but thats how the people are.
Minami Sayuri	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:23:00 - [118] 0.0 is all about survival of the strongest and there's strength in numbers... You can't expect people to be benevolent about the resources in their territory. It's precisely those resources that give them the advantage and reward them for being able to hold that territory. Sure, you can go out to Syndicate or some other NPC-owned 0.0 space and test your mettle there if you so please. You'll have access to stations and the markets. You'll also be able to put up a POS or two if you want. The simple fact is that when you enter a hostile, no-holds-barred environment, the protection of having a community of friends helps. That is exactly what corporations and alliances are. As a newb, your best bet is honestly to join an already established corporation that will help you get on your feet. There are plenty of 0.0 alliances out there that are willing to take lesser experienced players (and sometimes even brand new players) into their fold. When I first started EVE, EVE University (E-UNI) was one of these corps and I joined them right after finishing up my trial... I don't know much about the corp or their policies these days, but just know that there ARE corps and alliances out in 0.0 that are looking to help newer players as well as those that are looking just to shoot anyone that gets in their crosshairs. It's just a matter of looking in the right places and finding the right corp.
Shortfused Caldari Lost Connection	Posted - 2008.09.05 11:59:00 - [119] Just going to slap in my 2 cents on this. In the passt I found access to 0.0 not as hard as a lot of people think it is. But what a lot of people think is that they "need' to lay claim on their very own piece of 0.0 space. I led a small corporation back then, we were 7 active players strong. ( look how sarcasticly I write strong) After some looking and talking we were allowed to head on over to a nice spot in 0.0, no fees required and the only thing that was asked was that if a hostile or hostiles would come barge in to check with others who were there if we would go on active defence or passive defence. Next to that just give word to the Alliance who controlled the area what was going on and they would send in the required pilots to kill the intruders if it was a lot more then we could handle. I allso have been part of an Alliance in the old days that got kicked out of the skies by a far better organised Alliance when it came to PvP. And allso been in an Alliance which kicked instead of getting kicked. I left my last Alliance with a tad over 25 million SP. I joined into my first Alliance with a tad less then 2 mill SP. However, I never expected to be a ruler of my own little spot in 0.0 since that was never my goal. If you want to conquer a part of 0.0 space you have to be preparred to make a lot of sacrifices. If you think that is not fair then ask what sacrifices a lot of those who dwell in 0.0 for a long time have made to insure the stability of their Alliance. And yes, there are people who will shoot you if they are bored. And yes there are pirates who don't give a rats ass about Alliance borders and kill whom they can kill. But at the end of the day you just have to ask yourself one question. Was or is it worth the risk to be in 0.0 If yes then good, enjoy and have fun. Be it by being there allready or working on getting there. If no, then please don't whine about the fact you can't or dare to hop into 0.0 *Life is a cycle, and I love to recycle.*
Dashhammer II Amarr O RLY corp YTMND.	Posted - 2008.09.06 06:40:00 - [120] I had a guy come into our region the other day. He was a pirate I knew from a very long time ago. I waved and said Hi. I told him he didn't have standings and I told him how to get in touch with the people that could get him standings. He thanked me for my advice. Then he dropped a pos and anchored it. Before he could get it online the entire region had CYNOed straight to him and obliterated his POS. He called us bullies. Said we were unfriendly. Alliances go through a lot of trouble to secure a section of 0.0 for themselves. There is a lot of blood, swet and tears that have been shed over the last half decade in those regions. For an outsider to come into my home and show no respect for the rules I have laid out... It just makes me want to kill him. In 0.0 we have a saying... If you are not blue... you are glue. - Dashhammer II
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.06 08:54:00 - [121] Originally by: Dashhammer II It just makes me want to kill him. In 0.0 we have a saying... If you are not blue... you are goo. It's goo. As in what you get when you squish a pod.
Estios Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.07 23:48:00 - [122] Give me all your lunch money punk So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
MarthaStuart Caldari aaaaaaaaaaah an alt	Posted - 2008.09.09 10:55:00 - [123] There are two kinds of people in this world: people who suck, and Chuck Norris

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