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xXHeRoInERaBBiTXx Minmatar Veni Vidi Vici.	Posted - 2007.12.23 04:33:00 - [1] so in the trinity is it holy dev blog the devs speaking mention that there will yet again be another speed nerf....apparently interdictors go to fast so speed as a whole should suffer and all ships who use speed as their tank will suffer...this is means that ships like a huggin will be useless and a vagabond aswell. what they briefly talked about was adding additional penaltys to overdrives, as if the nasty cargo nerf isnt enough... they really need to just remove and speed bonus from any minmatar ships and add something usefull that wont get nerfed to ** by druken devs who clearly could use a few AA meetings.... keep screwing up ccp and breaking tons of ships and normal game mechanics...youll eventually go backwards in number of accounts your starting to apply the age old game killer of more features less fixes.... not to mention an ever changing set of rules which are becomeing ever more complicated and difficult to understand, preatty soon folks will need a phd in calc just to calculate basic weapon dps... part of the reason why amarr is so ** up is cause you keep changing the damn ships every 5 mins instead of fixing the basic ** which would negate the need for all the other stuff that your doing, fix the lasers grid capuse and slot layout, thats all you ever had to do...oh yeah and unscrew up amarr recons you broke CCP sober up and pay attention to what your doing instead of looking like a bunch of drunks who are gonna drive this game into the ground For All that has been said and done, you will suffer...
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 04:42:00 - [2] Would you kindly permit me to assume stewardship over your worldly goods? -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Bager Gray	Posted - 2007.12.23 04:51:00 - [3] YaY nerf the speed!!! I dont fly fast ship so i dont care. Yet another indirect amar boost, and another kick in the balls to the minmatar. Let the flaming begin.
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:07:00 - [4] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 05:07:50 The way I see it, Amarr and Caldari have taken a back seat to Gallente and Minmatar in the FOTM category since I first subscribed(late 2006). Caldari have a nice boost that makes them worthwhile but none of their ships are insanely better than any other races'(see Eos, Vaga, Myrmidon, et al). I'd love to see Amarr get a decent upgrade although I don't fly Amarr ships. Welcome to "Gallente and Minmatar whiners are fat and lazy, and can't stop crying because they want more sweets despite gorging themselves on candy for years and now CCP sees fit to give some to the rest of us" online. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Bager Gray	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:13:00 - [5] They way i see it everyone but minmatar have been on the nerf waggon, i could be wrong but oh well. Now ccp is starting to let the people that have been on there off to give the others a turn.
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 05:23:28 I truly believe that the races should be balanced without one having an enormous edge over the others. You know you have the highground when you agree with the way CCP ruins things and you get called a whiner because you agree with the changes being made. Like all democracies and decentralised tribes, Gallente and Minmatar prefer to halt the wheels of progress with endless complaints, debate, and protestation rather than get things done the way we Caldari always have. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:27:00 - [7] As opposed to dictors flying over 9km/s is fine? Ceptors going 20km/s is fine? Seriously speed has gotten crazy out of hand with all the rigs, implants and gang mods.. the problem is they multiply the stats. Once you get a few multiplication, even normal numbers get out of wack.
Bager Gray	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:28:00 - [8] Edited by: Bager Gray on 23/12/2007 05:29:11 Races shouldnt exaclty be balanced. There should be a sandbox style where you could play but overall each race should excell at a few thing and the other races shouldnt even be able to touch it. No hybrid caldari, No missle amar, No ewar gallente, and so on. that way when you train a race you know what exactly your training for and no race is truely better than the other but none of the races are balanced.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 05:23:28 I truly believe that the races should be balanced without one having an enormous edge over the others. You know you have the highground when you agree with the way CCP ruins things and you get called a whiner because you agree with the changes being made. Like all democracies and decentralised tribes, Gallente and Minmatar prefer to halt the wheels of progress with endless complaints, debate, and protestation rather than get things done the way we Caldari always have. You haven't been on these forums much have you? Caldari whine just a tiny bit less than Amarr. TBH, I've been waiting on the Minmatar nerf. I've known it was going to happen for quite some time - I'm just waiting to see how bad they do it. It could be a good thing for the game... but likely it won't be. I was all for the RSD "nerf" (scripts). But then they had to take it and go even further with the nerf and make the module damn near useless. I suspect they'll do the same to speed ships (nerfing speed) and then go "the extra mile" (and nerf the crap out of all minmatar ships). Meh, we'll see. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:34:00 - [10] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 05:35:43 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 05:23:28 I truly believe that the races should be balanced without one having an enormous edge over the others. You know you have the highground when you agree with the way CCP ruins things and you get called a whiner because you agree with the changes being made. Like all democracies and decentralised tribes, Gallente and Minmatar prefer to halt the wheels of progress with endless complaints, debate, and protestation rather than get things done the way we Caldari always have. You haven't been on these forums much have you? Caldari whine just a tiny bit less than Amarr. TBH, I've been waiting on the Minmatar nerf. I've known it was going to happen for quite some time - I'm just waiting to see how bad they do it. It could be a good thing for the game... but likely it won't be. I was all for the RSD "nerf" (scripts). But then they had to take it and go even further with the nerf and make the module damn near useless. I suspect they'll do the same to speed ships (nerfing speed) and then go "the extra mile" (and nerf the crap out of all minmatar ships). Meh, we'll see. -Liang Those are hardly true Caldari if they whine. I'm certain they must have Gallente ancestry. All true followrs of the state will work with what they have, win despite the odds, and be podded without complaint. We do not fear the dark between clone jumps the way those French nancies do. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.

Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:41:00 - [11] Speed nerf is a mistake. The only ships that currently go "too fast" are the Vagabond and obscenely expensive faction/officer fitted faction BS.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 05:54:00 - [12] From what I understand they're making speed mods and poly rigs stack penalties be a lot greater, which will affect ships that aren't supposed to go fast that are (most hac). It shouldn't affect the vagabond much, or most of the minmatar ships at least, as they're designed to go fast to begin with.. so we won't get hit hard with the nerf, I don't think.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:06:00 - [13] Nerf needs to clip off only the top end of speeds. If it's proportional over everything, then it'll just end up being a huge Minmatar nerf. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Captain Batou Deathwatch Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:09:00 - [14] One of the selling points of this game is the freedom in ingenuity of the players. Advertisements and video clips show the pilots ability to engineer his ship how he sees fit. With there being 1000's of mods and ships the versatility in this game is enormous. Yet.... Every time someone "invents" a ship that is feared on the battlefield all the people running missions in high sec, who don't go out and fight in the first place, whine like crazy and get it nerfed. CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. Why not just give everyone the exact same ship and set up and we'll make it totally fare? This is supposed to be a "Universe" "Torn apart by war" but when has the universe and war ever been fair? BURN AND DIE Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Captain Batou CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. This isn't the reason why eve doesnt have a huge playerbase.. The reason is its a hardcore game. Too complex and slow for a lot of gamers to appreciate. As for WoW, their devs nerf a lot of stuff too. It seems everywhere, devs have no clue on game balance.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:18:00 - [16] Edited by: Xequecal on 23/12/2007 06:19:07 Originally by: Captain Batou One of the selling points of this game is the freedom in ingenuity of the players. Advertisements and video clips show the pilots ability to engineer his ship how he sees fit. With there being 1000's of mods and ships the versatility in this game is enormous. Yet.... Every time someone "invents" a ship that is feared on the battlefield all the people running missions in high sec, who don't go out and fight in the first place, whine like crazy and get it nerfed. CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. Why not just give everyone the exact same ship and set up and we'll make it totally fare? This is supposed to be a "Universe" "Torn apart by war" but when has the universe and war ever been fair? Eve's skill system requires more balance than most. You can't simply "reroll" into the overpowered "class" like you can in other MMORPGs. If a ship of one race is overpowered, it ****s everyone who is not that race. No-one really cares that the Rifter is stronger than the Omen, because anyone can go fly a Rifter. However, you can't just go reroll into a Vagabond on a whim.
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 06:20:26 Originally by: Captain Batou CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. Originally by: Zana Kito As for WoW, their devs nerf a lot of stuff too. It seems everywhere, devs have no clue on game balance. You're both basing your opinions on a completely idiotic premise: that the devs got all the ship and module designs right the first time and they're just second-guessing themselves when they nerf something. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Zana Kito Originally by: Captain Batou CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. This isn't the reason why eve doesnt have a huge playerbase.. The reason is its a hardcore game. Too complex and slow for a lot of gamers to appreciate. As for WoW, their devs nerf a lot of stuff too. It seems everywhere, devs have no clue on game balance. Haha, I was just about to quote that and say the same thing. EVE is just too hard for most people, which of course is why the rest of us love it and can't quit playing. It's more of a MMO Action Strategy Game than Role Playing. Unfortunately, in games where player skill is vastly more important than l33t boss gear, it tends to follow the Rule of the Internet (tm) where everything must be dumbed down to the weakest link. ie. Children use the internet, therefore everything must be child safe. It's one of the staple double edged swords of a society, the very thing that protects the people is the very thing that prevents them from evolving.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 06:20:26 Originally by: Captain Batou CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. Originally by: Zana Kito As for WoW, their devs nerf a lot of stuff too. It seems everywhere, devs have no clue on game balance. You're both basing your opinions on a completely idiotic premise: that the devs got all the ship and module designs right the first time and they're just second-guessing themselves when they nerf something. Bored at work again? -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 06:20:26 Originally by: Captain Batou CCP, if you're wondering why you don't have the fan base of War Hammer or War Craft look at the way you stifle players with endless regulations, nerfs, and involvement. Originally by: Zana Kito As for WoW, their devs nerf a lot of stuff too. It seems everywhere, devs have no clue on game balance. You're both basing your opinions on a completely idiotic premise: that the devs got all the ship and module designs right the first time and they're just second-guessing themselves when they nerf something. Bored at work again? -Liang Shut up. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.

Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:28:00 - [21] I'm bored fixing my sec status this time :P
Peanut Swsh Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:38:00 - [22] tbh the only ships most people fly these days are nano-ships. other ships like arazu curse, a lot of ships have just fallen into obscurity, if you don't do at least 3k/s for a cruiser sized ship, don't bother undocking most of the time. I reckon a nano-ship nerf would be great, nerf them into obscurity like all the non-nanoships (not too far thou), and then maybe we will see more variety on the battlefield. atm, speedtank is pretty imbalanced vs any other form of tanking, it has its disadvantages sure, but it also makes it a little too easy to avoid pvp. maybe gate mechanics need a little bit of a looking into as well. anyway, I think a nerf to nano-ships would bring more variety to pvp, as too many times these days, you unless you have a bunch of huginns in gang, and remote reps to support them, theres no point fighting an enemy gang, cause they will either chew you up, or simply run away. noone wants pvp where nothing dies, its boring. It kinda pigeon holes pvp into a particular style of play, which really, ain't that exciting. oh and nerf lag, i dunno if its my imagination, but with each patch eve seems to be getting worse and worse in the lag department.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Peanut Swsh tbh the only ships most people fly these days are nano-ships. other ships like arazu curse, a lot of ships have just fallen into obscurity, if you don't do at least 3k/s for a cruiser sized ship, don't bother undocking most of the time. I reckon a nano-ship nerf would be great, nerf them into obscurity like all the non-nanoships (not too far thou), and then maybe we will see more variety on the battlefield. atm, speedtank is pretty imbalanced vs any other form of tanking, it has its disadvantages sure, but it also makes it a little too easy to avoid pvp. maybe gate mechanics need a little bit of a looking into as well. anyway, I think a nerf to nano-ships would bring more variety to pvp, as too many times these days, you unless you have a bunch of huginns in gang, and remote reps to support them, theres no point fighting an enemy gang, cause they will either chew you up, or simply run away. noone wants pvp where nothing dies, its boring. It kinda pigeon holes pvp into a particular style of play, which really, ain't that exciting. oh and nerf lag, i dunno if its my imagination, but with each patch eve seems to be getting worse and worse in the lag department. This is unfortunately why I'm not wholly against a speed nerf. I like speed, and I REALLY enjoy flying my minnie. But I would like to see a bit more variety on the 0.0 battlefield. Interestingly, I don't often see nano gangs in lowsec. Something about "gate guns". ;-) -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation Ltd. THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:43:00 - [24] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 06:43:45 I assumed a 9km/s vaga in the hands of a good pilot would be too fast for gate guns. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 23/12/2007 06:43:45 I assumed a 9km/s vaga in the hands of a good pilot would be too fast for gate guns. Gate guns are unaffected by tracking and sig radius, FYI. 350 DPS, take it, and like it. ;-) -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Storm Legion THORN Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:47:00 - [26] Quote: I assumed a 9km/s vaga in the hands of a good pilot would be too fast for gate guns. The guns do seem unaffected, yea, but it doesn't stop vagabonds from gatecamping :P I spent a week in sibot doing that very thing.. with the right skills, mods and implants you're agile enough to warp in as a jump happens, ram a hauler, and kill it and warp out before the gate can do any significant damage.(then again, any ship could do that if agile enough)
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.23 06:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Quote: I assumed a 9km/s vaga in the hands of a good pilot would be too fast for gate guns. The guns do seem unaffected, yea, but it doesn't stop vagabonds from gatecamping :P I spent a week in sibot doing that very thing.. with the right skills, mods and implants you're agile enough to warp in as a jump happens, ram a hauler, and kill it and warp out before the gate can do any significant damage.(then again, any ship could do that if agile enough) If you're fast enough with the gank and fast enough with the warp, you can get away - but that doesn't mean that the gate guns were affected by tracking or sig radius. ;-) The problem with gate guns doesn't come from them dealing massive amounts of instant damage - but from lots of damage for a long range - with no real recourse but to warp out. -Liang -- I give up (Make me say whatever you want!): Price Check: Liang Nuren
CANN0N FODDER	Posted - 2007.12.23 07:03:00 - [28] What I don't get is the excuse "dictors that go 9km/s, or ceptors that go 20km/s" Most ceptors you see going 20km/s are overloading their MWD. Uh... that's what the overheat was designed for. The rare ceptors and dictors and vagas and other speed tanked ships that are INSANELY fast, are done so through isk. People work quite hard to afford snake sets and faction gear and play for quite some time to have the skills needed to get these speeds. It's not like everyone is flying with these speeds either. You're taking an example and blowing it out of proportion. Spending billions on a ship should damn well give you the right to fly at incredible speeds and should definately give you that "near uncatchable" ability. No ship is uncatchable, even at those speeds, and what if a speed fit ship has to run away from you. You whine because you missed out on a kill because you didn't have a web, or a huggin? or something(whatever) else that didn't counter what he brought? It just amazes me the amount of childish thinking that comes on here. "but... but mom... he has something better than me. I want it! I want it! I want it! or at least... if I can't have it, take it away from them! It's not fair that they have it and I don't! wahhh...." No, I don't have snakes, nor do I fly speed fitted ships, but I totally dissagree with anyone who claims speed tanking is out of hand. You people need to grow up.
Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.12.23 07:30:00 - [29] Heh, i have always thought every ship in this game goes way too fast and is far to agile considering the size of these things, hell i even think stock Battleships are too fast and agile.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.12.23 07:42:00 - [30] Edited by: Xequecal on 23/12/2007 07:44:01 The problem is that ships that go faster than 7500 m/sec basically cannot be damaged. This is faster than any missile can damage, and with any transversal at all it's faster than guns can track. It's possible if the pilot is a real idiot and drops his transversal to zero, but not really. The only way to damage these ships is to bring a faster ship, or bring a Huginn. And sometimes, the Huginn doesn't work. Vagabonds and Crows go so fast that even a Huginn won't do it. You can warp to zero on a Huginn in a Crow/Vaga and get out to 25-30km before he can even lock, and then easily coast out of his web range. Faction/snaked Vagabonds and Crows can overload MWDs and go faster than most Huginns WHILE WEBBED. The whole thing becomes a stupid speed race. Get to X m/sec so nothing can hit you. And people who say, "people who spent all that ISK on snake sets and faction speed mods should be unkillable." You might have a point, if speed wasn't the only thing worth spending money on. A faction fitted Vagabond or Machariel with Snakes is INFINITELY stronger than, say, a faction fitted CNR with a full crystal set.



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