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So I dodged a shameless 0.0 ganker today

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Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:25:00 - [1] - Quote I'd just finished doing a distribution mission for my pirate faction and docked, trying to see if living in 0.0 space is possible and I found I was being hounded by someone in a tech 2 battlecruiser while I was of course yet again in a noob frigate and with no weapons, barely even capable of being considered a threat. Yet this ***** I had spotted was station camping me and I just knew he was waiting for me to come out with my cargo, gank me so I had to decline it and lose standing. Instead of playing this persons stupid game and losing myself a ship as well as the miniscule amount of progress I had made so far doing a fantastic total of two missions ( boy this person must have thought I was loaded with ISK ) I left the ship and decided to go in my pod because I knew no matter how fast the ** head thought they were they wouldn't get me easily in that. I undocked, warped off and found that he was somehow following me, most likely using their buddies to tell them where I was at all times, so I just ended up jumping until I got rid of the tech 2 battlecruiser. The reason I make this thread is to signal a couple of points, the main one is, how the hell can these 0.0 vets expect noobs to fly into 0.0 space and make ISK when they face this kind of thing each time, yes, a person who thinks ahead and acts with paranoia can avoid losing ships, but in return for this, they make either barely any or absolutely no progress. You can't mine the asteroid belts very easily in a noob ship because you'll either get ganked by the super powered NPCs or you'll be ganked by pirates as they scan you down because your forced to sit there being a target. The same thing happens if you try to run security missions, now I found a way around this but I of course have run into the issue of the fact that gankers will see you as easy prey and go out of their way to make your life a misery. If they were determined enough, they could have easily found out which system I was in if I hadn't logged off and then waited there with other characters for me to log back on again, see me in local and then immediately frag my ass for daring to do PvE in 0.0 space on my own. There's also the fact if I had logged off then knowing 0.0 players they would have simply gone afk for a bit in a group and waited for me to pop right back up on local. I just don't see why I should be forced to log out of a game and quit purely to prevent myself from being ganked because someone in their overpowered tech 2 battlecruiser thought it would be funny to station camp me then follow me through about 2 - 3 systems before finally giving up. These people don't even get to flaunt a spectacular killmail from killing noobs, so why do they even do it? All it does is make these 0.0 gankers look pathetic because when I looked at the map there was a war going on right next to this particular part of 0.0 pirate space so why didn't they go and pick a fight with them? I'm also going to have to go back and get my ship once I'm sure they've gotten bored of chasing me. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
SMT008 Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 351	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:36:00 - [2] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: I just don't see why I should be forced to log out of a game and quit purely to prevent myself from being ganked because someone in their overpowered tech 2 battlecruiser thought it would be funny to station camp me then follow me through about 2 - 3 systems before finally giving up. These people don't even get to flaunt a spectacular killmail from killing noobs, so why do they even do it? Why ? A kill is a kill. Also... Fit a cloacking device. You can stay cloacked in a safespot for ages, and no one will ever find you no matter what. Actually, they can find you if they end up being less than 2000 meters away from your ship, as it will decloack it.
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 3	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:37:00 - [3] - Quote First, as a lone newbie in 0.0 you are expected to die. Simple as that. Being successful in 0.0 requires to be in a corp (as part of an alliance) or to be an experienced player with some kind of protection (cloaking). Second, noob characters are used as scouts in 0.0. So even if you are not a worthy opponent to them, killing and podding you could mean one possible scout less. Especially when there is a war in the region.
TheBlueMonkey Natural Progression 18	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:38:00 - [4] - Quote Very young players can fit cynos and call in capitals, this alone makes you a potential threat.
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 165	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:40:00 - [5] - Quote You won the encounter.
Florestan Bronstein United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 405	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:40:00 - [6] - Quote things to do when arriving in 0.0 before doing anything else (1) make sure your medical clone is set to a nearby station and upgraded (2) create an insta bookmark at your new "home" station (3) create a bookmark for docking if necessary (there are some stations that you will warp to at 1,500-2,000m when you do warp to 0 meaning you have to slowboat a bit until you can dock - a bookmark helps) (4) create tactical bookmarks at all stations and gates in the systems you expect to use frequently you were only "forced to log out" because you were rushing to the dessert before eating your vegetables^^ even if sensor-boosted a bc-hull should usually not be able to catch you.
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:41:00 - [7] - Quote Cebraio wrote: First, as a lone newbie in 0.0 you are expected to die. Simple as that. Being successful in 0.0 requires to be in a corp (as part of an alliance) or to be an experienced player with some kind of protection (cloaking). Second, noob characters are used as scouts in 0.0. So even if you are not a worthy opponent to them, killing and podding you could mean one possible scout less. Especially when there is a war in the region. First, this isn't how a game should be, you may as well just show cinematics of noob frigates being killed constantly and gain ISK and skill points just for that. I should have the choice to not die and do as I please especially in a sandbox if it's not hurting anyone, I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here. Second I'm in pirate space doing mission running, running around in someone elses space specifically to pod me on the excuse that I 'could' be scouting is like saying police should shoot people in hoodies on the basis they 'could' be part of a gang and about to bring all their friends along to kill them. This is why people are all staying in high sec and being a lot more active, 0.0 players are acting like a bunch of twats and going around killing anyone that looks at them funny so why should noobs go there? I may well have to fit a prototype cloaking device, the only problem is this is an alt. so I'll have to wait awhile and inject more ISK, yet again, how everyone can expect a complete noob with no ISK or experience with the game to progress in 0.0 is beyond me. What they should be doing is making PvE in 0.0 space much easier and more rewarding since the threat of gankers being everywhere alone is a lot to handle if you aren't in a corporation or alliance. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 437	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:47:00 - [8] - Quote Don't take it personal, it's just that many people in game believe in an "If it moves, shoot it" philosophy, along with being fiercely territorial of their home grounds.
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 165	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:49:00 - [9] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: First, this isn't how a game should be, you may as well just show cinematics of noob frigates being killed constantly and gain ISK and skill points just for that. I should have the choice to not die and do as I please especially in a sandbox if it's not hurting anyone, I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here. Are you serious? In your version of the sandbox, the rules should be changed to please only you, and restrict others?
Maluscious Melody Frequent Moose 7	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:50:00 - [10] - Quote That is the point, no one does expect a noob with no isk or experience to progress in 0.0 haha. Is this a troll?
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:53:00 - [11] - Quote Roime wrote: Valei Khurelem wrote: First, this isn't how a game should be, you may as well just show cinematics of noob frigates being killed constantly and gain ISK and skill points just for that. I should have the choice to not die and do as I please especially in a sandbox if it's not hurting anyone, I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here. Are you serious? In your version of the sandbox, the rules should be changed to please only you, and restrict others? I do wonder at times whether people like you actually read before you post, my position has always been games like this should be a sandbox for everyone, not just for a select few, namely I don't think that gankers should have an automatic advantage over people or 0.0 alliances just because they have the biggest numbers. I guess I need to spam this more on every thread I post in big capital letters so people get it. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Florestan Bronstein United Highsec Front The 99 Percent 405	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:54:00 - [12] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Second I'm in pirate space doing mission running, running around in someone elses space specifically to pod me on the excuse that I 'could' be scouting is like saying police should shoot people in hoodies on the basis they 'could' be part of a gang and about to bring all their friends along to kill them. instead of having a long discussion, why don't you just go and create your own "civilized" NRDS entity on some scrap of npc 0.0? you'll soon notice that you end up shooting a lot of neutrals regardless of your RoE because they are "obvious" scouts or cyno alts - or because they are "obviously" going to shoot you. The application of your nrds policy will become more and more arbitrary, different people will judge situations differently resulting in great drama and at some point you'll go back to nbsi because it's easy to understand and can be applied in an objective fashion (without having to ask people to play sacrificial lambs). yes, I am speaking from experience. You are arguing that driving you away from living in 0.0 solo is somehow bad for the game and people shouldn't do it because they are only hurting themselves. But you don't explain what content (other than target practice) you provide that people would miss out on if you would join a larger group of players instead of venturing out on your own?
TrashProcesor School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:55:00 - [13] - Quote Just outsmart 0-0 people, it's almost that easy. Whatever movement you make in o-o space should be spearheaded by your cloaky scout alt(you do have a second account don't you - you can't survive in o-o without one) and maybe the most important skill to stay alive is knowing how to gear up dodge style. Stabs inertia mwd and a cloak are your friends(practice your pulse mwd+cloak+decloak instant warp skill best for avoiding non bubble gate camps. Set instant warp in safe spots on every station you visit - this will be done much safer and easier with your scout alt- and make as many safe spots needed in systems where the distances between celestials is too big to allow scanning. Other than that good luck. You can ask for more tips if you want ingame I'll be happy to set you up
Lexmana Imperial Stout 192	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:56:00 - [14] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: First, this isn't how a game should be Maybe you are not playing the right game. This is EVE. Quote: I should have the choice to not die and do as I please especially in a sandbox if it's not hurting anyone, I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here.. The n00b starter systems are a special part of the sandbox where you are protected and safe. Quote: I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here.. You ventured into someonelses part of the sandbox. He is prepared to fight for it. What will you do besides whining ..?!?
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 3	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:57:00 - [15] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Cebraio wrote: First, as a lone newbie in 0.0 you are expected to die. Simple as that. Being successful in 0.0 requires to be in a corp (as part of an alliance) or to be an experienced player with some kind of protection (cloaking). Second, noob characters are used as scouts in 0.0. So even if you are not a worthy opponent to them, killing and podding you could mean one possible scout less. Especially when there is a war in the region. First, this isn't how a game should be, you may as well just show cinematics of noob frigates being killed constantly until you've gained enough skill points in a game I should have the choice to not die and do as I please especially in a sandbox if it's not hurting anyone, I shouldn't be punished for subscribing later than the other guy which is what's happened here. Ok, so this is a sandbox and you seem to chose the hard way. That's fair enough. But going the hard way in EVE means you die from time to time. It also needs preparation - see Florestan's post for good advice. Valei Khurelem wrote: Second I'm in pirate space doing mission running, running around in someone elses space specifically to pod me on the excuse that I 'could' be scouting is like saying police should shoot people in hoodies on the basis they 'could' be part of a gang and about to bring all their friends along to kill them. This is why people are all staying in high sec and being a lot more active, 0.0 players are acting like a bunch of twats and going around killing anyone that looks at them funny so why should noobs go there? Your police example doesn't work in 0.0. There is no law other than what the players make. That player law usually is NBSI. It means everything that is not blue has to die. No matter how threatening it is. Examples why this is done have been given: Scouting, Cynos. Valei Khurelem wrote: I may well have to fit a prototype cloaking device, the only problem is this is an alt. so I'll have to wait awhile and inject more ISK, yet again, how everyone can expect a complete noob with no ISK or experience with the game to progress in 0.0 is beyond me. Nobody expects a complete noob with no ISK to go into 0.0 and be successful. That would be pretty stupid situation in regards of the competition, wouldn't it? I doubt there is any MMORPG that offers a newbie the same chances in a direct fight against a much better trained and equipped player. Valei Khurelem wrote: What they should be doing is making PvE in 0.0 space much easier and more rewarding since the threat of gankers being everywhere alone is a lot to handle if you aren't in a corporation or alliance. Making PVE more rewarding would make it more rewarding for the 0.0 locals also, but it would not change their attitude.
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 165	Posted - 2012.02.07 13:58:00 - [16] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: I do wonder at times whether people like you actually read before you post, my position has always been games like this should be a sandbox for everyone, not just for a select few, namely I don't think that gankers should have an automatic advantage over people or 0.0 alliances just because they have the biggest numbers. I guess I need to spam this more on every thread I post in big capital letters so people get it. I wonder if you read your own posts with any thought. You contradict yourself. You can't make a sandbox for everyone by imposing rules on some.
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:00:00 - [17] - Quote It isn't imposing rules, it's giving people options, if someone's clever enough to dodge peoples stupid tactics as I was here then you should be able to get past them, the problem with EVE is CCP has essentially made the rule "I have the biggest ship in the whole region so you have to die now" that isn't what a sandbox should be, I just don't see why I should be forced to wear a cloak or fly in a pod/shuttle to do it because it's killing MY part of the game and I don't even want anything to do with the person trying to gank me. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Lexmana Imperial Stout 192	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:02:00 - [18] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: It isn't imposing rules, it's giving people options, if someone's clever enough to dodge peoples stupid tactics as I was here then you should be able to get past them, the problem with EVE is CCP has essentially made the rule "I have the biggest ship in the whole region so you have to die now" that isn't what a sandbox should be, I just don't see why I should be forced to wear a cloak or fly in a pod/shuttle to do it because it's killing MY part of the game and I don't even want anything to do with the person trying to gank me. lol. Are you actually playing the game or just trolling the forums?
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 307	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:03:00 - [19] - Quote Four words: YOU ARE IN NULL OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:03:00 - [20] - Quote Quote: lol. Are you actually playing the game or just trolling the forums? Yes, that's right, I'm trolling you, now go away and don't attempt to ruin peoples threads again llolololololol. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Aiwha 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda 127	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:06:00 - [21] - Quote Do not venture into 0.0 alone with less than 7 million sp. If you do you are going to die. This is fact. I wouldn't try to rough it alone with less than ten personally. Either join a corp or carebear it up in highsec for a few weeks. Regards, LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter
Rhinanna CyberShield Inc ROMANIAN-LEGION 110	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:08:00 - [22] - Quote I'm sorry, but are you lacking neurons? Quote: Yet this ***** I had spotted was station camping me and I just knew he was waiting for me to come out with my cargo, gank me so I had to decline it and lose standing. And you hadn't made an insta-warp spot at the station? Really? Why not? You could of easily ignore anything but a dictor or hictor with an insta-warp off the undock. Quote: I undocked, warped off and found that he was somehow following me, most likely using their buddies to tell them where I was at all times, so I just ended up jumping until I got rid of the tech 2 battlecruiser. Or he just looked which direction you warped in and followed, really not difficult. Quote: how the hell can these 0.0 vets expect noobs to fly into 0.0 space and make ISK Because they don't expect you to act like a ** and do it solo? EvE is a team game. Quote: You can't mine the asteroid belts very easily in a noob ship No, REALLY! You can't tank the hardest belt rats in the game in the ship most people get rid of after a few hours training? Really? (spot the sarcasm) A RIFTER can tank them by using transversal, a Tier 2 BC will them with no problems. Quote:** I just don't see why I should be forced to log out of a game and quit purely to prevent myself from being ganked because someone in their overpowered tech 2 battlecruiser thought it would be funny to station camp me then follow me through about 2 - 3 systems before finally giving up. These people don't even get to flaunt a spectacular killmail from killing noobs, so why do they even do it? All it does is make these 0.0 gankers look pathetic because when I looked at the map there was a war going on right next to this particular part of 0.0 pirate space so why didn't they go and pick a fight with them? I'm also going to have to go back and get my ship once I'm sure they've gotten bored of chasing me. And how do they know you aren't part of that war? Either as a cyno alt, scout or tackler, lots of other roles that a younger player or alt can do to make themselves useful. Please try and use your brain, that kinda thing helps in EvE, particually if you try actually using some foreward planning and getting READY for null instead of just going there. Join a null-sec corp, lots of them about, Brick Squad are in Curse atm I believe and are good and willing to help train new players or there are lots of options for newer players who would rather go to Sov owned null instead as well. So basically your thread is "Well I decide on the spur of the moment to head to null, with no preperation, scout or any of the other vital tasks I should have done first, then nearly got killed so now I'm sad" -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more)-á
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:10:00 - [23] - Quote Quote: So basically your thread is "Well I decide on the spur of the moment to head to null, with no preperation, scout or any of the other vital tasks I should have done first, then nearly got killed so now I'm sad" LOL :) You keep telling yourself that princess :D "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 165	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:13:00 - [24] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: It isn't imposing rules, it's giving people options, if someone's clever enough to dodge peoples stupid tactics as I was here then you should be able to get past them, the problem with EVE is CCP has essentially made the rule "I have the biggest ship in the whole region so you have to die now" that isn't what a sandbox should be, I just don't see why I should be forced to wear a cloak or fly in a pod/shuttle to do it because it's killing MY part of the game and I don't even want anything to do with the person trying to gank me. You are confusing fundamental principles of violence with sandbox rules. 1) physically stronger opponent wins when all else is equal 2) larger numbers wins when all else is equal This is how interaction between species work in ecosystems (natural world, the benchmark of all sandboxes) and the rules have their ground in physics. Luckily, like you just demonstrated, smaller, physically weaker and fewer can affect the "all else" part, overcome the fundamental rules by their wits and cunning. I think CCP has been quite sucessful in simulating these properties of interaction. And it still appears like you want to affect the options of player interaction to your personal benefit only.
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:18:00 - [25] - Quote Quote: 1) physically stronger opponent wins when all else is equal 2) larger numbers wins when all else is equal There have been thousands of examples throughout the history of our species and currently that completely prove both of these points wrong, as for your comment about me personally, this is a game, the point isn't survival the point is being able to progress and have fun, if I'm actually forced to log out of a game I have paid for because of another players actions, that isn't fun that's just stupid and unnecessary. It's like this whole stupid argument that is repeated on here where people seem to think that you should somehow be forced to work hard in a video game that is provided purely for entertainment and fun. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 307	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:26:00 - [26] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: ... the point isn't survival. the point is being able to progress and have fun... the point is being able to progress and have fun AND SURVIVE. Fixed for you en especial OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 389	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:28:00 - [27] - Quote Cebraio wrote: Second, noob characters are used as scouts in 0.0. So even if you are not a worthy opponent to them, killing and podding you could mean one possible scout less. Especially when there is a war in the region. ^^This, more than anything else. You said there's a war going on next-door ? You can bet your bottom dollar the guys chasing you were forward-scouts, ridding the nearby system of any potential enemy scouts. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Valei Khurelem 273	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:28:00 - [28] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Valei Khurelem wrote: ... the point isn't survival. the point is being able to progress and have fun... the point is being able to progress and have fun AND SURVIVE. Fixed for you en especial Ever considered that being able to go down in a blaze of glory and take down several people before you die is fun to? I do that a lot on counter-strike, it makes people rage :D "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Herold Oldtimer Caldari Provisions Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:32:00 - [29] - Quote As someone said earlier, you managed to survive so you won that encounter. And while EVE is a game to have fun in and enjoy, it is not a game about instant gratification. While you progress and learn how to live where you decided to live you will also be able to make more of a profit than you are right now. And be prepared to run a lot. A lone player will always be at a disadvantage out in null-sec.
Cebraio Starfire Oasis 3	Posted - 2012.02.07 14:34:00 - [30] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Ever considered that being able to go down in a blaze of glory and take down several people before you die is fun to? I do that a lot on counter-strike, it makes people rage :D But here you chose to log off, which isn't fun for anyone involved. Actually you claim to be forced to log off from the game you payed, but that is not true. You could have continued to fly to high-sec and eventually die in the process - or escape. The latter would have been fun for you.

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