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Switching from a Nighthawk to a CNR or Golem. Yes or no?

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Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.31 21:01:00 - [31] Edited by: Andrue on 31/12/2007 21:02:59 Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why would anyone fly a nighthawk, when a Raven does more damage, and can tank every lvl 4 mission out there? ..because a NH (passive or semi-passive tanked) offers a more relaxed mission experience. You can watch TV, put the kettle on, chat..whatever. You're never at any risk of losing your ship. With a Raven (even a CNR) you have to run a shield booster now and again and on quite a few missions that means watching your cap as well. If you get distracted you can lose the ship. NH is like mining. Warp in, target, open fire, go home. If the 'phone rings you just answer it. No need to monitor your ship because it'll still be there when you're done. NH is slightly slower than a CNR but not that much - my record for GE4+bonus was 53 minutes before Trinity. You need to bear in mind that a NH can pop BC and smaller ships faster than a Raven and most L4 missions have more of them than BSes. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.01 13:55:00 - [32] I've just been offered GE and am doing it now, stopwatch is running and I've got Seasick Steve playing in the background. 42 minutes and 50 seconds from first shot fired to "Objective completed" Completing it to the end will take a little longer due to the plethora of jammers which now appear. 59 minutes and 6 seconds to activating the gate into the bonus stage Seasick Steve has finished and Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd is now playing. 1 hour 7 minutes and 14 seconds to me opening the can at the end of the bonus stage. The only sentry guns I shot were the Amarr ones in stage 4 and the couple which are very close to the warp in point in the bonus stage. The only structure shot was the final one in the bonus stage. It dropped rubbish, btw 3203 Caldari Navy Scourge missiles were launched for an average of 194dps over the entire mission. Largest hits were 379.2 and the lowest were 77.6 on small ships. Time: 01/01/2008 12:37:27 Location: Duration: 01:06:53 My Weapons Used Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Enemies Attacked Pithatis Enforcer Pith Usurper Arika Tosch Aimon Kuzni Pith Exterminator Dire Pithi Saboteur Pith Obliterator Pith Eliminator Tower Sentry Guristas III Amarr Heavy Missile Battery Pithatis Death Dealer Pithatis Assassin Pithior Anarchist Guristas Kyoukan Pithior Renegade Pithum Eraser Pith Extinguisher Guristas Webifier Pithi Wrecker Pithior Supremacist Pithatis Revolter Pith Eradicator Pithior Terrorist Guristas Emissary Pithatis Assaulter Pith Dismantler Pithum Silencer Damage Done: 780321.50 Damage Received: 58693.80 (figures from Eve Combat Log Analyzer) What I'm wanting from either the CNR or the Golem is to speed that up. I'm sure that can be done.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.01 14:54:00 - [33] How does the Golem fair against Guristas with its low sensor strength? are NPC ECMs affected by it or does the mechanic work differently? ----------------------------------------------- My new years resolution is to give up nonconstructive posting
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.01 14:57:00 - [34] Hmmm .. that combat log analyzer is quite interesting tool. Unfortunately it's not compatible with my latest combat logs for some reason (version 0.16). Only logs it was willing to provide stats properly was small handful back in july when I was testing FoF missiles (and best hit characteristicks). Dunno whats wrong with it. Perhaps it does not treat faction ammo well ? I would be quite interested in comparing CNR numbers with yours. Perhaps I will get slightly more time in few days and I will try using regular T1 ammo to see if it makes log analyzer treat those better.
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.01 15:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Paulo Damarr How does the Golem fair against Guristas with its low sensor strength? are NPC ECMs affected by it or does the mechanic work differently? I don't think it really makes any difference - I stand to be corrected but I think that NPC jamming is purely chance based. Regarding CLA, I run with the /end /LUA:OFF switches on my eve clients so all the log files are stored in the same place now and it picks them up from that location perfectly.
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.01.01 16:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why would anyone fly a nighthawk, when a Raven does more damage, and can tank every lvl 4 mission out there? A proper set up CNR outdamages my nighthawk .. a standard raven issue probably is not. The nighthawk it's safe, fast missionrunner and good looking (though I prefered it in black - preTrinity) - whereas the raven is ugly to the bone, flown by all the noobs in the world, and does only more damage on paper, which may be enough for EFT warriors, but in reality isn't. Just keep using your raven ^.^
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Carniflex I will try using regular T1 ammo to see if it makes log analyzer treat those better. Nope. Not helping me. Did Gone Berzek with regular T1 ammo. No luck with log analyzer. Perhaps I can get rid if IE 7 later (it did throw an error when installing bcos if it) and reinstall ....
Sandeep Raptus Regaliter Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:31:00 - [38] Originally by: Carniflex Hmmm .. that combat log analyzer is quite interesting tool. Unfortunately it's not compatible with my latest combat logs for some reason (version 0.16) Uncheck "Simple damage notifications" -----
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.01 19:58:00 - [39] Originally by: Sandeep Originally by: Carniflex Hmmm .. that combat log analyzer is quite interesting tool. Unfortunately it's not compatible with my latest combat logs for some reason (version 0.16) Uncheck "Simple damage notifications" Thanx. I think it's the case indeed. Just went over some older logs (I turned simple notifications on approx 2 months ago) and they are indeed loading properly. Will try to get back with some proper numbers for CNR (and perhaps even for Golem altho I have already switched to salvage rigs on my Golem), perferably for Gurista vaganza (if I manage to get it).
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.01 20:26:00 - [40] Attack of the drones (lev 4 ofc), CNR (navy launchers, CN ammo, 3x CN BCU, painter, 5% rof and damage hardwires, 3x Rigor rigs I, no drones used) Time: 1.01.2008 20:03:18 Character: Carniflex Location: Duration: 00:07:47 My Weapons Used Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Enemies Attacked Supreme Alvus Parasite Alvus Ruler Strain Render Alvi Bomber Alvum Atomizer Alvum Dismantler Alvior Defeater Alvatis Damage Done: 211346.40 Damage Received: 26274.10 Note: 486 missiles used (41.6 shots per minute), 'mission completed' appeared after first 2 spawns, total lenght of combat log was 12 minutes (killing all spawns). I like that log analyzer. First time I have got it working. Hehe. I'll try to see if I can get some 'proper' results tomorrow after work.

Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.01 22:21:00 - [41] Ooo, that's good - I'd like to see the results and timings for GE4
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.02 18:20:00 - [42] Edited by: Carniflex on 02/01/2008 18:21:02 Edit: Forgot to add that this is GE level 4 Time: 2.01.2008 17:05:30 Character: Carniflex Location: Duration: 00:50:19 My Weapons Used Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Enemies Attacked * list of rats * Damage Done: 768262,10 Damage Received: 70569,70 I used 1935 missiles and as this mission was on my alt then I did not measure time until missionpopup comes (alt was docked). This time is for killing all rats in 5 first stages (no bonus stage) It was also in system 1j away so not all of that 'duration' was spent shooting, but travel time should be under 3 minutes so margin of error is not big. Did not use drones. Setup was same as in that attack of drones mission.
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.02 19:15:00 - [43] The duration in CLA is from first to last impact so it's going to be about right. I make that nine minutes quicker than my Nighthawk run - Did you pop all guns, and does that include any structures? I make it around 215dps taking the damage done and the time into account. Very interesting to compare, thanks.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.02 19:57:00 - [44] Originally by: Sergeant Benton The duration in CLA is from first to last impact so it's going to be about right. I make that nine minutes quicker than my Nighthawk run - Did you pop all guns, and does that include any structures? I make it around 215dps taking the damage done and the time into account. Very interesting to compare, thanks. Interesting for me also. I must admit that it's slower than I expected. That time is with killing all sentries and hostiles but no structures in first 5 stages. Altho to be honest GF is not very CNR friendly mission bcos it loses approx 10 .. 15 seconds with eatch reinforcment wave (slow locking). Usual time for me is somewhere around 45 minutes (when using drones) solo (altho I prefer to run missions with pair of CNR's and they do it in approx 30 .. 35 minutes.
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.03 00:47:00 - [45] Edited by: Sergeant Benton on 03/01/2008 00:47:16 Carniflex, can you post your complete setup (including any relevant hardwirings) for the CNR please, I think the CNR could be the way to go and we're talking along similar lines here. If you don't want to post the whole thing, I'm open to evemails ;) Thanks!
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.03 06:33:00 - [46] My current setup is Hi: 7x CN Cruise launchers 1x Auto Targeter I Med: CL5 XL booster 2x T2 hardener 1x CN hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap Injector II (5x800) Low: 3x CN BCU 1x DCU II 1x Signal Amp II Rigs: 3x Warhead Rigor Catalyst I + 5x T2 light, 5x T2 Medium combat drones Relevant Hardwires: 5% cruise missile damage, 5% missile launcher RoF (slot 6 and slot 10) Using CL5 bcos I have CPU issues after switching to missile rigs from CCC rigs and don't have CN booster at hand atm. Planning to switch DCU II out for 4th CN BCU when I can be arsed to fly to Jita for some tags to switch T2 hardeners out for CN ones (CPU issues). Note that this is not very 'relaxsed' mission running platform as it needs more or less constant attention to be effective or to even survive in mission. Usually I use it in tandem with other CNR that focuses mainly on bigger targets, but if I don't feel like logging my other char in then it has been quite capable of doing all missions I have encountered so far solo also (note, that I do not do Enemies Abound series bcos of stadnings issues, I need sometimes to fly freighter thru gallente space). I use Golem as dedicated looting ship for those few missions that are still worth looting isk/h wise.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:31:00 - [47] Edited by: Andrue on 03/01/2008 11:32:27 Very interesting comparison. Ofc with GE it varies a little depending on jamming but probably not enough to matter. I only seem to get jammed on the penultimate room. So, NH : Damage Done: 780321.50 Damage Received: 58693.80 CNR : Damage Done: 768262,10 Damage Received: 70569,70 9 minutes longer in the NH. It sounds reasonable. Presumably the damage received is reduced on the NH because of better resists and smaller sig. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Mjoelner1 Draco Industries Ltd	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:25:00 - [48] Interesting comparisions in here. I'll try to add one more. GE runned with dual accounts and 2 x Golems. No looting/salvaging exept the storage in the extra room. Normally I loot/salvage all bs wrecks in range while I kill, whitch add a fair bit of ISK. This takes a bit more time though, due to more micromanaging. Time: 2008-01-03 22:11:12 Character: Backis Location: Duration: 00:35:30 My Weapons Used Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Enemies Attacked Pithatis Enforcer Arika Tosch Guristas Storage Facility Aimon Kuzni Pith Eradicator Dire Pithi Saboteur Pith Obliterator Pith Eliminator Tower Sentry Guristas III Amarr Heavy Missile Battery Pithior Guerilla Pithatis Death Dealer Pithatis Assassin Pithior Anarchist Guristas Heavy Missile Battery Guristas Kyoukan Pithior Renegade Pithum Eraser Pith Extinguisher Guristas Webifier Pithior Supremacist Tower Sentry Guristas II Pithior Terrorist Guristas Emissary Pithatis Assaulter Pith Exterminator Pith Dismantler Pith Usurper Damage Done: 414752,80 Damage Received: 51464,40 Time: 2008-01-03 22:10:06 Character: Mjoelner1 Location: Duration: 00:35:20 My Weapons Used Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Enemies Attacked Pithatis Enforcer Pith Usurper Aimon Kuzni Pith Eradicator Dire Pithi Saboteur Pith Obliterator Pith Eliminator Tower Sentry Guristas III Pithatis Death Dealer Arika Tosch Pith Extinguisher Guristas Webifier Pithum Abolisher Pithi Wrecker Pithatis Revolter Guristas Kyoukan Pithior Terrorist Guristas Emissary Pithatis Assaulter Pith Exterminator Pith Dismantler Pithum Ascriber Pithi Plunderer Pithum Silencer Damage Done: 400806,80 Damage Received: 2280,30
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:06:00 - [49] Originally by: TalanR I'm using a pimped nighthawk and i don't have to warp out durring any mission. i alway's start by getting all the agro (this way they come to you) maby a crystal set would do you good. here's my setup 6x Caldari Navy Heavy Launchers 1x Tractor beam 1x Domination Afterburner 1x Gist X-Type large shield booster 1x Gist X-Type shield boost amp. 2x GD inv fields 3x Caldari Navy BC's 1x Damage Controle II 1x Power Diagnostic III 2x EM rigs What are the stats and the price-tag on that Power Diag III ? ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.20 22:47:00 - [50] He's going to go with the following on a CNR to give it a try. Most of the stuff I had anyway so it's just a case of fit and play. 5 x CN Cruise 2 x Arbies CN X-L Booster CN Boost Amp CN Invul 3 x mission specific T2 hardeners 2 x PDU T2 2 x CN BCU 1 x DG BCU 1 x CCC 2 x SMC Plus a bunch of drones. What's good for the spare high slot? Never having fitted a Raven before, I think this is a cookie cutter LP store type setup?

Chrosis Fusion Enterprises Ltd	Posted - 2008.01.21 00:26:00 - [51] Edited by: Chrosis on 21/01/2008 00:26:09 Flown both CNR and Nighthawk in level 4s (not Golem though) and the CNR goes through them quicker. However I still fly the Nighthawk because I enjoy it more. I suspect someone can grind the figures and come up with an impressive set of results to prove a CNR or Golem or Nighthawk will do X mission faster than the other two and no disrespect but what it should boil down to is what you enjoy flying more imo ;)
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.21 06:24:00 - [52] Oh I quite agree but having been using a Drake/Nighthawk for the best part of a year, I feel it's time for a change and the CNR/Golem is the next logical step.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.01.21 08:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Sergeant Benton What's good for the spare high slot? Never having fitted a Raven before, I think this is a cookie cutter LP store type setup? For spare hi slot there is several viable options available: 1) tractor beam (to drag mission critical items in instead of flying to them) 2) drone link (+20 km drone range, might be useful, might be not) 3) Auto Targeter I (usually used if you are out of CPU, gives +2 locked targets if you have multitasking trained) Note that CCP has fixsed auto targeter recently and it does not lock all kind of crap anymore if you happen to activate it, but only entities who are agressed on you. T1 version has max lock range of 50 km. Actually quite useful to have if you have jamming rats present, as it's relatively annoying to constantly ctrl+clik on them to regain lock. And additional target slots are also useful. I personally would go either with tractor beam or auto targeter. As far as general cookie cutter setup goes, then mine is propably not that general nor cookie cutter as most people dislike using cap injector for missionrunning. I do like mine above non injector fueled setups ofc, as injector lets me pull off some tricks that are hard to get in 'general' setups, like target painter, 4x BCU's, max 10 locked targets and 110 km lock range while still having strong enough tank to last thru missions without warpouts. General setup is usually 2 to 3x BCU and 2x to 3x PDU in lows and tank having XL booster 4x hardener and boost amp.
Sergeant Benton Caldari United Nations Intelligence Taskforce	Posted - 2008.01.21 08:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Carniflex General setup is usually 2 to 3x BCU and 2x to 3x PDU in lows and tank having XL booster 4x hardener and boost amp. Heh heh, that's what I specced up. He's all ready for his first mission tonight which coincidentally enough is going to be GE. I'll report back and tell how I got on later.


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