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I came, I played, I got bored, I cancelled

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Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 21:48:59 I thought I would support CCP in it's efforts to bring eve to the Mac platform and tried out the game. Now I am canceling during the first billing cycle and I thought the Devs would be interested to hear my thoughts. That the rest of you mopes get a chance to flame me after is just a bonus. The UI is ugly and clunky. some windows you can change text size some not. some functions that would seem obvious additions to the popup menus are nowhere to be found. actions take more clicks than they really should. mission variety is incredibly lacking. Changing up which flavor of rats are protecting the deadspace zone does not really make it a different mission. Recovering from a death is the most tedious PITA gameplay mechanic I have encountered in all my decades of gaming. Personally i'd like to see a more expensive insurance policy (only available to frigates and possibly small industrials) that returns a ship of the type you lost fitted with the basic tech versions of the modules you had fitted at the time you paid your insurance. i think this would make it a lot easier for new players to get the hang of the game. Finally, when someone signs up for 14 days free and then pays for the game during those 14 days, having the paid sub start AFTER the trial time is over, instead of immediately, might help you not look like complete moneygrubbers. Thanks for the fun I did have, i'll probly re-up now and again to see if there are improvements. You don't want my stuff, it's crap.
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:51:00 - [2] Yeah, definetely don't want your stuff. Say hello to the elves for me...
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:51:00 - [3] This won't end well. But sorry to see you go, I don't agree with most of your points, but what I think we can all agree on is that EVE isn't for everyone. Vaya con dios. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:51:00 - [4] Heh, the whole game isn't that bad. I do agree the windowing display isn't as good as World of Warcraft but they are useable, arent' they? This game is just a bit hard to play but it is still fun ... --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:55:00 - [5] the UI hasn't really caught up with windows 98.
Kithron Darklite inc Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:57:00 - [6] I agree, the UI mostly sucks. It really needs some work. I agree, the mission variety is pretty small. Eve is not about PvE, it is about PvP and empire building. I agree, the death penalty is harsh. Life is harsh, it adds to realism and immersion. It also gives you something to fight for. I agree, the subscription durin 14 day trials should start AFTER the 14 days. Despite the points you have raised, this is the best MMO I have ever played. It is so immersive you end up thinking about it way too much out of game, even. If the UI ever gets a true revamp, Eve players may just ascend, becoming pure energy just to merge with the internet and live in Eve Space. :) Darklite Inc. Diplomat
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:57:00 - [7] Why would you say that and what era is the UI if it hasn't caught up with Win98? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Zinras Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:57:00 - [8] You can sell your stuff and transfer the ISK to me! The tutorial should have informed you how insurance works, so I don't see a problem there. While I agree that the game's UI certainly could do with improvement it's not that bad when you get the hang of it. It's not very hard to afford the modules that you've lost, given how much the insurance pays (yes, I've been there myself when I was new).
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Corvinae The UI is ugly and clunky. some windows you can change text size some not. some functions that would seem obvious additions to the popup menus are nowhere to be found. actions take more clicks than they really should. mission variety is incredibly lacking. Changing up which flavor of rats are protecting the deadspace zone does not really make it a different mission. Agreed the UI and PvE are some of EVE's weakest points and don't get the attention they deserve from the devs. Originally by: Corvinae Recovering from a death is the most tedious PITA gameplay mechanic I have encountered in all my decades of gaming. Personally i'd like to see a more expensive insurance policy (only available to frigates and possibly small industrials) that returns a ship of the type you lost fitted with the basic tech versions of the modules you had fitted at the time you paid your insurance. i think this would make it a lot easier for new players to get the hang of the game. Finally, when someone signs up for 14 days free and then pays for the game during those 14 days, having the paid sub start AFTER the trial time is over, instead of immediately, might help you not look like complete moneygrubbers. No. Death is supposed to be a set-back, that's what makes EVE the game it is and appeal to the market it appeals to. New players need to this find out early on if this is for them not have their hands held for awhile and then get left to drown. As for your complaints about accounts a trial account cannot use a number of ships and features within EVE. Subbing fixes that. Most people only sub once they are sure they want to play. If you could have lived without these features for the rest of your trial period you should have waited until your trial ran out. As with any purchase, do your research and know what your getting for your cash. Pity the game isn't for you, but it's not for everyone, hope to see you back if the UI and PvE ever improve.
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:58:00 - [10] Can i also point out the cash (first time out i typed isk ) WoW have available? We have a few hundred thousand subscribers. WoW has millions. As such, they have the best skills and talent posisble. CCP doesnt. Even despite those that we have being skilled, there are other folks who CAN make it better (no offence CCP) that are out of reach due to finaince. So - Sorry you didnt enjoy it, but you're playing an intensive game, which you obviously didnt click with. However, if you stayed longer, you'd see that the gameplay that exists is either due to it working well enough already, or it being changed already for balancing. And whilst the death thing you find a PITA...What incentive is there in WoW to try not to die? Walk back to your body or whatever? Eve isnt a fantasy elf game, and does have a 'touch' of realism. If its not to you liking, fair enough. But you could always email the devs. Sadly posting here WILL bring flames.
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.03 21:59:00 - [11] The death penalties in this game are central to absolutely everything in it, especially to the fact that almost every pvp encounter is an exciting experience. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:00:00 - [12] I do wish CCP would open up the UI to third-party modification. Would do wonders for the game. You're right that missions can be boring as hell, although when doing difficult ones with friends, it gets a lot more interesting. However, missions are a very small part of the game, and are mostly a means to an end. All the best content in EVE is created by the players themselves. If you want a fun solo missioning experience, you should play WoW or LOTRO. And yes, when you lose a ship, it sucks. This is intentional; it gives people a reason to fight well, learn the game, and use caution, because they can't respawn five seconds after dying with all their stuff intact. EVE has its flaws, but so does every other MMORPG.
Lord Matrix Department of War	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:03:00 - [13] The UI is indeed horrible and there is no mission variety whatsoever. If you do not find a purpose in the game you eventually get bored and quit. You should find and join a good corporation to get you started. I'm sure if you could see the game as the older players see it, you would continue playing simply because there is so many things to do and achieve. This is something no other MMO can give you. 3/4 pure lunatic, 1/4 absolute genius
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:12:00 - [14] the UI reminds me of Win3.1 TBH. I understood and used insurance, i only died 3-4 times as i played into lvl II stuff. Running around reassembling a ship after a death makes the game fell like its made of tedium. The point about the subscriber base and the resources available for improvements is interesting chicken and egg dilemma. Does the game have problems because the playerbase is to small to afford the resources to improve it, or is it the games deficiencies that keep the playerbase low?
Belce Caldari ADAMA Corps Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:14:00 - [15] I think that the fact that this game has a very much larger subscriber base than it did last year and the year before that... etc is evidence that this is one great game. No other game out there continues to grow its numbers this long after release, including WoW. I think this year alone Eve has set a record for most simultanous online subscribers only to raise that bar up again a few months later. Truth is Truth
Sydril	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:18:00 - [16] I think the OP has a decent point about a 'super' insurance policy for smaller ships. I know EVE prides itself on being a little more harsh then other games, but I think it makes sense at the beginning to make it a little easier for players initially. Why? Here's my example. I died in my frigate losing all my gear. I then have to spend the next hour jumping buying/installing parts. Being a new player I could easily die again and I have to again spend an hour doing so. So that means my first 4 hours of play have consisted of this: 2 hours of a subpar tutorial, 2 hours of jumping/buying/fitting items and 15 minutes of actual fun (before i died). Obviously, at this point I realize i better start buying multiple copies of items, but the point is when you're new and you don't realize this the first time, it can be major turn off initially. And again, I know EVE isn't a carebear game etc and yes that is the beauty of EVE. But I think it sorta makes sense to let new players experience the good stuff rather than kick them in the nuts right away, at the very least it does from a business standpoint. Let them get on their feet and then when they have a bit more isk and knowledge, make them suffer with having re-equip every ship they lose. Besides, would it really throw off the game if you gave a newbie a very basic equiped starter frigate upon death?
Suze'Rain Caldari Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:19:00 - [17] really, the UI is not ugly or clunky the UI is graceful, elegant, and rapid in its executio- ah hell who'm I kidding? it's bloody awful. we've been telling them this for years. it's not as bad as it was.... but it's still dire. I'd give my spleen for the opportunity to modify the UI design, personally. not sure about insurance - a newbie type replacement would likely be a bonus for learning... but to be honest, I think part of the game's appeal from my masochistic, spleen-donating point of view is that death really means something in eve... it's still the only computergame I've had the shakes from. and the 14-day trial thingy is scandalous. dont know if other companies do the same though.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Corvinae I thought I would support CCP in it's efforts to bring eve to the Mac platform and tried out the game. Platform fanboyism is the worst reason to try out any program, of any kind. Here, the first complaint of a Mac fanboy who tried the game because it's on a Mac, is about the EVE UI. That says it all. You tried this game for the wrong reasons, no wonder you were disappointed. Just because it's on a Mac, doesn't mean it will meet your needs. And just because it's on Windows, doesn't mean it will suck. Stupid fanbois. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Jimer Lins Vaya con dios. Via con dios (God go with you). Vaya is a nonsense word. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Waxau The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Corvinae the UI reminds me of Win3.1 TBH. I understood and used insurance, i only died 3-4 times as i played into lvl II stuff. Running around reassembling a ship after a death makes the game fell like its made of tedium. The point about the subscriber base and the resources available for improvements is interesting chicken and egg dilemma. Does the game have problems because the playerbase is to small to afford the resources to improve it, or is it the games deficiencies that keep the playerbase low? Well, the reason of the low player base is due to the fact that when the game first started up, it wasnt good (Beta Player here). However, over time it has actually become far better, with more features, and so on. However, at this time, the games reputation was by word of mouth only. I believe it was given a rather crappy score on MMORPG.com, and so only mates played together, and so on. However over time, as CCP's low budget kicked in, more folks joined up, more features were added, and made it a 'stable' game. They then were able to focus on advertising. That advertising is the reason for the huge playerbase rise in the past few years, and is still rising rapidly. However, please note. CCP at the start of their Eve Career had a rocky start. Their publishers went bankrupt and as such, CCP were stuck in limbo. Using only a few resources that they had, they pulled themselves back, and made eve live on. The major reason the game has a small community, is simply due to the long and painful road CCP undertook. Oh - And also that Eve is a rather mature game, with maths, equations, and overall grownup community. WoW is an ageless one.
Jimer Lins Gallente Pod Six Research	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Jimer Lins Vaya con dios. Via con dios (God go with you). Vaya is a nonsense word. I stand corrected. I thought it could also mean "Go with God". Anyway, the sentiment was meant well. Need a covops or scout? Recruit me!
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:24:00 - [22] Edited by: Glassback on 03/01/2008 22:24:17 NM. BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Corvinae The UI is ugly and clunky. some windows you can change text size some not. some functions that would seem obvious additions to the popup menus are nowhere to be found. actions take more clicks than they really should. Eve has one of the worst UIs of any modern MMO, except perhaps for Pirates of the Burning Sea. More people need to whine about this so it will get fixed. ---
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn on 03/01/2008 22:24:55 If you need to fit a new ship after being destroyed (and are a relatively new player), go to a trade hub like Jita (Caldari), Oursulaert (Gallente), Amarr (...Amarr), or somewhere along those lines. You may pay more for your stuff there, but you'll get it all in one place, and the time you save as a result will make up for the extra money because you can use it gaining money, salbaging, and getting better standings. If you absolutely MUST deal hunt, only deal hunt for the most expensive items in your setup.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:27:00 - [25] I'd like to see a n00b try undock with all the T1 parts attached to his ship the insurance stuck on it seeing as he likely didn't start with Engineering 5, Electronics 5, or cap skills to keep them going. There's a reason you use named over T1. Simply the game is not for you, find another game more suiting to your needs. You have the choice, now make it. I would personally like to see insurance removed completely. The UI may be a bit crap, but its still functional. ___ All Ur Salvage R Belong 2 Me !
F90OEX	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:29:00 - [26]
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:30:00 - [27] Quote: Platform fanboyism is the worst reason to try out any program, of any kind. Here, the first complaint of a Mac fanboy who tried the game because it's on a Mac, is about the EVE UI. That says it all. You tried this game for the wrong reasons, no wonder you were disappointed. Just because it's on a Mac, doesn't mean it will meet your needs. And just because it's on Windows, doesn't mean it will suck. Stupid fanbois. LOL hostile much? FWIW i am a RTS guy at heart, to me multiplayer means playing VS other players, playing alongside/under command of other players is not my style. Yeah i got hooked on the MMO thing with WoW, but i am looking for something with a little more. spaceships>elves anyday in my book as well. I wish EvE had been it, there are definitely some good folks here.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Jimer Lins I stand corrected. I thought it could also mean "Go with God". Anyway, the sentiment was meant well. Sure, I know. I'm just being a pedantero. But you know what: turns out you're right and I'm wrong. Vaya is indeed the way the word is spelled after all. I always thought it was an Anglicization of the Spanish word "Via" which Americans would incorrectly pronounce "vee-ah." But in fact (as I discovered while checking to see if I really knew what I was talking about) Vaya is the proper conjugation for using the word in a declarative like "God go with you." -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Corvinae FWIW i am a RTS guy at heart, to me multiplayer means playing VS other players, playing alongside/under command of other players is not my style. Well that just backs up what I said. You tried the game because it was on a Mac, not because it was a type of game you thought you might like. Disappointment seems unsurprising under those circumstances. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Corvinae FWIW i am a RTS guy at heart, to me multiplayer means playing VS other players, playing alongside/under command of other players is not my style. If you have been here through one subscription period, you haven't even HEARD about more than about 10% of eve.... If you want Player vs. Player, go join a Pirate corp or try some solo piracy/raiding. Course you will get your tail handed to you because this isn't a twitch game; Eve rewards patience (including patience at training your skills). Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:52:00 - [31] I agree the UI sucks. I disagree that the death penalty is overboard. It's one of the things I love about this game... that is of course when it's someone else losing their ship and not me.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.03 22:53:00 - [32] Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 03/01/2008 22:54:15 Originally by: Corvinae Quote: Platform fanboyism is the worst reason to try out any program, of any kind. Here, the first complaint of a Mac fanboy who tried the game because it's on a Mac, is about the EVE UI. That says it all. You tried this game for the wrong reasons, no wonder you were disappointed. Just because it's on a Mac, doesn't mean it will meet your needs. And just because it's on Windows, doesn't mean it will suck. Stupid fanbois. LOL hostile much? FWIW i am a RTS guy at heart, to me multiplayer means playing VS other players, playing alongside/under command of other players is not my style. Yeah i got hooked on the MMO thing with WoW, but i am looking for something with a little more. spaceships>elves anyday in my book as well. I wish EvE had been it, there are definitely some good folks here. you simply MUST play the game more. EVE is entirely about Player Vs Player. All the good content in EVE is player made, with player created and controlled alliances fighting for territoy in lawless space. Also, while I agree missions are boring, there is ALOT, and i mean SIMPLY ALOT, of EVE content that is hidden, and new players generally will never find out about it unless an older player tells them. Examples of hidden content a player will likely NEVER KNOW ABOUT in their 14-day trial are: COSMOS missions hidden encounters exploration gas cloud stuff they will also not realize the complexities of the entirely player driven market, including such things like salvaging in your PVE missions to produce rigs for other players, and other such content. The game is worth another try, but EVE requires months minimum to really get into the good stuff. the game is totally not for everyone, and i mean that respectfully. you TOTALLY have a point with the subscription thing. Its fine if it starts right away, if the subscription page TOLD you that it would, so you could decide. edit as for death penalty, just see my sig Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 21:48:59 I thought I would support CCP in it's efforts to bring eve to the Mac platform and tried out the game. Now I am canceling during the first billing cycle and I thought the Devs would be interested to hear my thoughts. That the rest of you mopes get a chance to flame me after is just a bonus. Happy to oblige! Quote: The UI is ugly and clunky. some windows you can change text size some not. some functions that would seem obvious additions to the popup menus are nowhere to be found. actions take more clicks than they really should. Can't argue this, what's been surprising to me is the utter lack of any attempt to create custom UI mods by the players. The datasets are no different than anywhere else. Quote: mission variety is incredibly lacking. Changing up which flavor of rats are protecting the deadspace zone does not really make it a different mission. Missions are a means to an end. Believe me, they're barely scratching the surface of what this game's about. Quote: Recovering from a death is the most tedious PITA gameplay mechanic I have encountered in all my decades of gaming. Personally i'd like to see a more expensive insurance policy (only available to frigates and possibly small industrials) that returns a ship of the type you lost fitted with the basic tech versions of the modules you had fitted at the time you paid your insurance. i think this would make it a lot easier for new players to get the hang of the game. The first rule of EVE: Never fly a ship you can't afford to lose. This isn't a game you can zerg through. You have to think about consequences from day one. Screw that up at your own danger. Yes, this means you will find yourself running from fights. You will not own from the outset, and some missions are just going to be beyond your ability. EVE is not about winning, its about surviving, even in missions.
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:08:00 - [34] Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 23:11:46 So many assumptions. I am 42 years old and don't own a television, let alone a console. I played space trader back when we had to bring our own printer paper. I tried this game because I thought from what I had read up about it that it might be a fun space theme MMO i could run on my computer. I decided to pay for it to support the effort. the distinction is subtle, i know. There is a lot of content in the game that I haven't experienced i admit freely. but mining, research, industry stuff all seems terribly tedious to me, and i got my fill of shuttling goods around 20 years ago on that printer paper. PvP seems to be completely group oriented for the most part. the consensus seems to be that solo PvP is near impossible, and I am too old and grumpy to deal with all the epeen that I am sure is involved in all that lol
Mr McCargo The Paradox Continium	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 21:48:59 Finally, when someone signs up for 14 days free and then pays for the game during those 14 days, having the paid sub start AFTER the trial time is over, instead of immediately, might help you not look like complete moneygrubbers. Actually, your paid time does start AFTER the trial, if you pay with a gametime code. - Mr C
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 23:11:46 So many assumptions. I am 42 years old and don't own a television, let alone a console. I played space trader back when we had to bring our own printer paper. I tried this game because I thought from what I had read up about it that it might be a fun space theme MMO i could run on my computer. I decided to pay for it to support the effort. the distinction is subtle, i know. There is a lot of content in the game that I haven't experienced i admit freely. but mining, research, industry stuff all seems terribly tedious to me, and i got my fill of shuttling goods around 20 years ago on that printer paper. PvP seems to be completely group oriented for the most part. the consensus seems to be that solo PvP is near impossible, and I am too old and grumpy to deal with all the epeen that I am sure is involved in all that lol And now we come to the real reasons you left Eve. Its simply not for you. Nothing wrong with the game or you really. You like pie and Eve is cake. Might I suggest you try one of the X2/3 series for your space game pleasure? Its got everything your looking for only its a single player game with freeform flight. Kinda like Eve only a space shooter with economic elements.
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:36:00 - [37] Your better off playing a different game. EVE's past its peak. Sorry you didnt like it but you made the right choice. Syrup
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:40:00 - [38] Originally by: Surreptitious EVE's past its peak. Now now. Just because you guys can't wardec all of Empire anymore doesn't mean its past its peak for the majority of players though I can fully understand why in your specific case it might seem so.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Corvinae Yeah i got hooked on the MMO thing with WoW, but i am looking for something with a little more. Not sure, but it rather looks like you're actually looking for something with a little less. Less time you need to spend to get to know the system and less effort to master the game and be that uber-pwning level 70 <enter favorite class here>. When I started playing this game pretty much exactly a year ago, I went through pretty much the same feelings. I started, paid (also was annoyed by the immediate start of billing cycle), ran missions, did a bit of this, a bit less of that, and got bored after around 6-8 weeks. Although, I never really had many issues with the UI. It's pretty... let's call it "basic" to use a diplomatic term. But it kinda does the job well enough for me. Lots of room for improvement, no doubt, but it works. More or less. At times. You know what I mean. :) Then, after taking a break of 8 months, I decided to give EVE another go, this time from a different angle: PvP. Screw missions. Screw mining. This time, let's go and blow things up, or get blown up trying. This, for me, is where this game comes alive. And no, it's not a necessity to do gang PvP. But playing solo PvP takes a lot more effort in picking targets/fights/meowchow. I believe it's well worth it. Nothing more rewarding than finding/baiting/tricking a valid target after putting a lot of effort into it. And although I almost agree with you on changing the insurance system to handing back a T1 fitted ship, after thinking about it I believe it's better to have it the way it works right now. I have sympathized with that motion, mainly because I'm lousy at PvP. And every time I get my blown up I'd love to have that feature at hand. Hop back in, and get blown up again. But what's even better than that, is to have to fly around for 30-45 minutes, scraping together your equipment just to get back into the game. And for what? To think about the stupid mistake you've just made that cost you that much time. Feel the consequences and learn. And one last thing. I have yet to make encounter with an epeen-swashbucklin PvPer. I've had my fair share of going boom, but none of those guys showing me how my Rifter looks like in tiny pieces tried any sort of smack talk. So far, I believe the nastiest in-game characters are the most mature people.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari SIVAKASI	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:47:00 - [40] Come on, do something that you like to do. I am sure you could find some fun. You can come and run missions with me if you want. I have been doing Enemies Abound for the past ten times and I still find it fun. Honestlt, I don't mind running it the next ten times again. Running mission with someone else could be fun. Try it but sorry to see you leave if you don't want to. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:49:00 - [41] The UI sucks less than it used to suck and improvements are steadily being made in its suckiness. I for one like its minimalist approach but things seem to have a weird logic about them and aren't intuitive until you spend time with it and obvious things are missing or it lacks many options to customize. Mission variety is lacking if youre only doing kill missions. They are basically all the same. If you've done a lvl 1 kill mission you have essentially done a lvl 4 kill mission on a smaller scale. Some of the cosmos missions however are very interesting so if you didn't get a chance to try those out you missed a treat. Also the whole exploration mini profession in the game and finding plexes and 'dungeons' to kill stuff in can be a lot of fun. The insurance thing is fine. Part of what Eve is, can be found in overcoming the challenges the game presents to you. If you found that annoying, well... Boost Amarr
Raktar Medovski	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:53:00 - [42] At least on the 14 day trial here you can do more things. On WoW's 14 day trial, you can't join groups, can't trade, can't talk in channels, and can't post on the forums.
faxtarious Kai-Zen inc.	Posted - 2008.01.03 23:57:00 - [43] The game itself has no weaknesses aside from the usual Bug here..bug there (cauz the world isn't perfect) kinda thing EvE is harsh....yeah ..."we" know EvE kicks you in the nuts when you,re a n00b...yeah... "we" know EvE doesnt have the "Britney Spears" UI theme ....Thank God...Oh and BTW...CCP: please keep the GUI as IZ... I was suprised to read that you are actually in your early 40's..."did you know" the most of the best EvE pilots out there ...actually are in they 30's and late 30's. that's because...I kind of noticed that they enjoy the game cauz the usual "lvl grinding" that usually attract kids and turns them into ******s when they reach they late teens and early 20's is not that interesting to a 25-30-35 year old man/woman that has a life and enjoys a bit of "intellectual" challenge in life. I'm not "flaming you"....this is just my perception of your Post. Sorry to see that such a nice game ...isn't your type. tried wow by any chance..."it's Ub3r l337"
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Raktar Medovski On WoW's 14 day trial, you can't join groups, can't trade, can't talk in channels, and can't post on the forums. CCP needs to take a lesson from Blizzard in this specific case then. Trial alt spam/abuse is one of the few things that annoy me about the game be it an isk seller spamming the chat or a group of alliance nubs talking **** in the npc chat/forums.
Suze'Rain Caldari Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:04:00 - [45] Originally by: faxtarious EvE doesnt have the "Britney Spears" UI theme ....Thank God...Oh and BTW...CCP: please keep the GUI as IZ... I'd rather like it if CCP would let us design user interfaces, with some sort of precondition that they have to be vetted by CCP to get patched in as user-created content (web2.0 here we come, buzzword bingo) only if the UI design passes CCP's quality standards. would be good to weed out the britney spears UIs, and only allow those which are good enough and appropriate
nether void Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:11:00 - [46] 'Insert huge flame here' 'Insert 'You are not prepared' flame about WoW here' 'Insert joke/flame about Mac and iPod here' --------------------------- nethervoid - since '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|PS\|EVE\|HZ\|NWN\|VG\|WoW]
Vasco Falcon Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:18:00 - [47] Completely agree about the UI, its so 80s! But the death cost is one of the things that keeps bringing me back, as well as the logistics and difficulties smaller alliances have keeping themselves going in 0.0. On death costs lets have Battleship and anything bigger made uninsurable, now theres a proper money sink. Infact anything bigger or better than a T1 cruiser xD
Westly Synpa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:33:00 - [48] Yes empire play is quite boring. Yea you can't do much else other then pirate in low sec or try to join a corp in 0 sec but you can't usually do those without lots of skill points so yes its a waste of money for most new people since it takes a long time to get enough skill points to do anything worthwhile.
Ursula LeGuinn Versus Gloria Omnis	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:38:00 - [49] Originally by: Westly Synpa Yes empire play is quite boring. Yea you can't do much else other then pirate in low sec or try to join a corp in 0 sec but you can't usually do those without lots of skill points so yes its a waste of money for most new people since it takes a long time to get enough skill points to do anything worthwhile. Well, you can get competent at piloting an Interceptor or CovOps in a couple, three months with the right attribute spread and some average implants. Of course, the only way to make any money while doing that is to have a mining alt on a second account, because you need a cruiser with at least passable skills to do L2 kill missions well. But yeah... it really takes 4-6 months to get to the point where you're good at anything, and even then, after six months, you'll probably only be good at that one particular thing you picked.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 23:11:46 So many assumptions. I am 42 years old and don't own a television, let alone a console. I played space trader back when we had to bring our own printer paper. Remember me? I'm the guy that flamed your Mac fanboyism. I'm 45 and also don't have TV, but I have a Xbox360. I also played the paper games back in the day. Remember Traveller? I even remember the old BBS game Tradewars 2002, which is about the closest thing there was to EVE in the dial-up days. Let me tell you something: EVE is the successor to those old paper-based space trading games, in the same way that Baldur's Gate is the successor to D&D in the computer game world. Only it is much, much, MUCH more detailed than any of those old games could dream of! How much effort did you put into those paper games? EVE deserves at least as much, and rewards you far better for the effort, IMO. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:45:00 - [51] Edited by: Zeba on 04/01/2008 00:46:12 Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn ..stuff.. lol. He was being sarcastic. Goonswarm is completly based around large groups of low skill players to get their jollys.
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Raktar Medovski On WoW's 14 day trial, you can't join groups, can't trade, can't talk in channels, and can't post on the forums. CCP needs to take a lesson from Blizzard in this specific case then. Trial alt spam/abuse is one of the few things that annoy me about the game be it an isk seller spamming the chat or a group of alliance nubs talking **** in the npc chat/forums. HALLELUJAH!!! _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2008.01.04 00:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Suze'Rain Originally by: faxtarious EvE doesnt have the "Britney Spears" UI theme ....Thank God...Oh and BTW...CCP: please keep the GUI as IZ... I'd rather like it if CCP would let us design user interfaces, with some sort of precondition that they have to be vetted by CCP to get patched in as user-created content (web2.0 here we come, buzzword bingo) only if the UI design passes CCP's quality standards. would be good to weed out the britney spears UIs, and only allow those which are good enough and appropriate WTB a "Pitch Black/Riddic" UI. Many thanks, Bye _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:04:00 - [54] Corvinae: You're right about everything except when you complain about having to rebuy and fit your ship after it explodes. That's part of the logistics of the game. Whining about that gets you no sympathy. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Insidi Us Amarr Suicidal Mercenaries Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:13:00 - [55] I pretty much loathe the UI myself. I tried the 7 day free trial a couple of years ago and couldn't get past the mining tutorial. I thought the game blew big chunks then proceeded to play EQ2/WoW. After I realized what it would take to maximize my potential in WoW I quit and gave this game a try on a whim, and have been here ever since (24 million SP). I think it comes down to having a specific plan in mind when you start the trial. The first time I tried it I just thought "Let's just give this overall game a try and see what it's like" and felt aimless. The second time I tried it I had read a lot about the sandbox PvP in 0.0 space, so I tried to tailor myself to that, and found my niche. Again, the UI blows. But even to this day my heart gets pounding and I get a shot of adrenaline when combat gets fierce. Today I tried to engage a Drake with my Rapier, but after he actually started shooting back I had to MWD off and hope I got out of his 24km scramble range before I died. I made it, and it made me realize how much fun this game can be, because of the harsh death penalties. ------------- RIP Constructive Criticism
Armoured C Gallente Globaltech Industries Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:22:00 - [56] yeah for the turorial it has gotten better over the times i have been playign but we all survived throught it when it hasnt had better days and look at us now fully able pilots because we stuck with it and had the willingness to learn unlike lazy players lol yes it intence but we all got throught it fine in the end there nothing much more you can do with out them experiencing the game for themselves yes you get blown up it happens i mean i saw a post here yesterday about a week old pirate he learned he been blown up and he got stright back up this just shows that peoples are lazy when doing this and not comitted
Mavil	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:26:00 - [57] I mostly agree with you. The UI is horrible, there's no doubt about it. Better now than it used to be, but still really bad. Missions are really dull. I only PvP nowadays. Disagree with the insurance, as that'd take a lot of the excitement out of PvP. However I atleast often think it's a pain of what kind of kill-death ratio you need to keep up in order to earn money by killing people. Only half the items survive, and if it's a tech 2 fit ship you might get 10-20mil in total for its fittings. Had you however lost a Command Ship (somewhat uninsurable) or a similar ship you'd have been looking at losses of 250mil or so. The problem with this is that it makes you a lot less eager to engage in a fight, as even if you fight 5 ships and blow them up and get blown up yourself, you most likely won't have profited from it. This in turn makes it harder to find PvP in general. That's my take on it atleast!
Letava Gallente Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:30:00 - [58] My opinions: - The UI is clear and functional, and far better than any other MMO I've tried. This is especially noticeable with chat channels where you don't have to **** around with filters and fading windows. - PvE is sorely lacking, but unlike other MMOs there's no actual need to PvE. - The penalty for dying is harsh, but that's what I like about it. - I petitioned and got the days I lost from my trial added back onto my account -----------------------
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:41:00 - [59] Originally by: Letava My opinions: - The UI is clear and functional, and far better than any other MMO I've tried. This is especially noticeable with chat channels where you don't have to **** around with filters and fading windows. You should really try more MMOs, such claims make you look a bit ... otherworldly... I have only tried 3 other MMOs and they all beat EVE by miles as far as the UI is concerned: Tabula Rasa (1st place), WoW (2nd place), Dungeon Runners (extremely simple budget MMORPG by NCsoft, tried it out of pure boredom, but the UI is very good). The EVE client really needs some love, it's such a pity that such a good overall game design suffers from bad usability. I also don't like shooting at little crosses and rectangles when I have a good graphics card, I wish I could see more of the ships in combat... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Mallikan Gallente Spartan Hoplites Rare Faction	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:41:00 - [60] This just in! No one cares. Bye, won't be missing you. --- lol.. I messed up.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:45:00 - [61] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Jimer Lins Vaya con dios. Via con dios (God go with you). Vaya is a nonsense word. "Vaya" is the subjunctive form, most glamorously used for commands. No you can't have 'em rest of the world! These good illiterate 'murikans is ALL MINE!
El Muerte The Nine Gates	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:46:00 - [62] I agree the UI is H O R R I B L E. Open a container and everything on the ui gets screwed. If it weren't for logging in chatting with friends / corp mates I probably would quit again. Cheers to ya have fun.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.04 01:53:00 - [63] Originally by: El Muerte Open a container and everything on the ui gets screwed. What happens? I only get a window with the can contents in it when I open one. Is there a new display bug?
Magnum III Journey On Squad	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:00:00 - [64] Edited by: Magnum III on 04/01/2008 03:01:24 I agree the PvE sucks bad and is a joke and remarkably does not seem to get any better. And they were just being polite when they gave reasons why the new EVE book was not about actual players especialy in 0.0. Real players especialy in 0.0 are borring and petty among everthing else. Not interesting as the fictional world of EVE. They will give you goals in walking in stations but since they will keep it away from scripted stuff, I'm sorry but it will be borring.
Letava Gallente Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:22:00 - [65] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Letava My opinions: - The UI is clear and functional, and far better than any other MMO I've tried. This is especially noticeable with chat channels where you don't have to **** around with filters and fading windows. You should really try more MMOs, such claims make you look a bit ... otherworldly... I have only tried 3 other MMOs and they all beat EVE by miles as far as the UI is concerned: Tabula Rasa (1st place), WoW (2nd place), Dungeon Runners (extremely simple budget MMORPG by NCsoft, tried it out of pure boredom, but the UI is very good). I've tried the 3 you mention, and more besides. The interfaces all suffer from the same problem: they try to make everything look as unobtrusive as possible so as not to ruin the immersion of a fantasy game, meaning I can't just easily control things by clicking through windows and menus while I play the game. EVE lets me put windows where I want, at the size I want, windows can be easily merged together or separated. I can bring up anything I want in seconds without interrupting control of my ship. And the 3 layers of moveable buttons for module activation is so much better than the bloody quickbars every other MMO has. -----------------------
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:35:00 - [66] Originally by: Letava meaning I can't just easily control things by clicking through windows and menus while I play the game. EVE lets me put windows where I want, at the size I want, windows can be easily merged together or separated. I can bring up anything I want in seconds without interrupting control of my ship. Clicking through windows and menus is easy? Especially when the menus are laggy, menu items have no logic arrangement at all and many hotspots that need to be clicked are tiny and move around? I don't know, most people find hotkeys better and the fact that I can play these games without having windows covering half my screen is a big plus and is proof of good user-friendly game design. Also, the EVE UI is extremely slow/unresponsive and buggy. Sure, you get used to most of the bugs after a while, but it's still subpar ... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:40:00 - [67] Originally by: Letava I've tried the 3 you mention, and more besides. The interfaces all suffer from the same problem: they try to make everything look as unobtrusive as possible so as not to ruin the immersion of a fantasy game, meaning I can't just easily control things by clicking through windows and menus while I play the game. EVE lets me put windows where I want, at the size I want, windows can be easily merged together or separated. I can bring up anything I want in seconds without interrupting control of my ship. And the 3 layers of moveable buttons for module activation is so much better than the bloody quickbars every other MMO has. The basic UI in wow is also horrible, or at least it used to be. But since you can customize it, you can get it exactly as you want. Wow went a bit to far in allowing addons that to a large degree automated tasks, but in principle its great to be able to customize it to your needs. People like different things so to have the option to change things around is great. I dont have any major issues with the eve UI atm, but would love to have the possibility to customize it. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Letava Gallente Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.04 03:58:00 - [68] Originally by: Lazuran Originally by: Letava meaning I can't just easily control things by clicking through windows and menus while I play the game. EVE lets me put windows where I want, at the size I want, windows can be easily merged together or separated. I can bring up anything I want in seconds without interrupting control of my ship. Clicking through windows and menus is easy? Especially when the menus are laggy, menu items have no logic arrangement at all and many hotspots that need to be clicked are tiny and move around? I don't know, most people find hotkeys better and the fact that I can play these games without having windows covering half my screen is a big plus and is proof of good user-friendly game design. Also, the EVE UI is extremely slow/unresponsive and buggy. Sure, you get used to most of the bugs after a while, but it's still subpar ... Personally I prefer to use my mouse and menus, so maybe that's the reason I like EVE's UI more. I'd imagine that my familiarity with EVE is also a big reason, as it's my most played MMO by a couple of years. Any UI bugs are minor ones, I can only think of icon bugs off the top of my head, and the interface is only laggy for me when the game is lagging, which is the same in any MMO. User customisation would be nice, I don't really see it as an important feature, but it would be interesting to see what useful tools and fancy styles people could create for it. One last thing before I sleep, can someone at least agree with me that the chat channels are much better than in other MMOs? -----------------------
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Corvinae Recovering from a death is the most tedious PITA gameplay mechanic I have encountered in all my decades of gaming. Personally i'd like to see a more expensive insurance policy (only available to frigates and possibly small industrials) that returns a ship of the type you lost fitted with the basic tech versions of the modules you had fitted at the time you paid your insurance. i think this would make it a lot easier for new players to get the hang of the game. You want fluffy fluffy fairy land, its a long long way away. EVE is too kind, frankly. If we all wanted safety, we'd all be playing WoW, or some other generic MMO. Thanks, Izo Azlion. ---
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 23:11:46 So many assumptions. I am 42 years old and don't own a television, let alone a console. I played space trader back when we had to bring our own printer paper. I tried this game because I thought from what I had read up about it that it might be a fun space theme MMO i could run on my computer. I decided to pay for it to support the effort. the distinction is subtle, i know. There is a lot of content in the game that I haven't experienced i admit freely. but mining, research, industry stuff all seems terribly tedious to me, and i got my fill of shuttling goods around 20 years ago on that printer paper. PvP seems to be completely group oriented for the most part. the consensus seems to be that solo PvP is near impossible, and I am too old and grumpy to deal with all the epeen that I am sure is involved in all that lol /thread Though, solo PVP is very possible. _________________ Burn.
Suboran Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:26:00 - [71] eve is what you make of it. end of.
TimGascoigne	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:28:00 - [72] Originally by: Larg Kellein Yeah, definetely don't want your stuff. Say hello to the elves for me... best reply ever
Ernesto Hoost	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:34:00 - [73] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 03/01/2008 23:11:46 So many assumptions. I am 42 years old and don't own a television, let alone a console. I played space trader back when we had to bring our own printer paper. Dude, you is like kind of freaky You are 42 years old and think 15$ a month is steep! I'm not sure if you are in CCP's current demographic, but you scare me Enjoy...err, whatever it is you do Do you have your mother in a chair upstairs by the window, and run a motel?
warrior009	Posted - 2008.01.04 04:42:00 - [74] NEWBS!!! they give their thoughts and Idea's... Been playing the game since the beta fool! I leave and come back but im an old character... and out of all the MMO'S eve beats them all hands down and I know what im talking about because my friends convince me to leave eve to play the "new" top of the line mmo thats out and it turns out to be like all the others, WOW, LOTR, DDO "which bombed!" COH they all the same theres a cap lvl and once you reach it its like now what.. LETS START OVER AND DO IT AGAIN! ya no i like eve.. IF you going to play this you cant give it 1 month and wth did you do to get killed 3 or 4 times dam I played my first month and kill 10 or 12 people in the game and I was in a frigate and yes I did missions and yes they should make all missions random lol but like what somone said this is a PVP Empire game not a PVE you only go pve to get special blueprints.... now ill stop blabing so i can go back out and mine for another 24 hours because mining might be fun but Ill have made another 12 ravens so I can blow them up and have fun!!!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:32:00 - [75] name a mmo with good "mission" variety? is there a difference between killing a spider, a rat, and a troll? I do think that missions are the crap end of the game. must say your 4th paragraph makes it sound like an i got blown up i quit and yes blowing up is harsh, thats half the fun its even more fun when your the one blowing something/someone else up and yes payment added on at the end of the 14d trial would be nice.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:33:00 - [76] wow =====>
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:37:00 - [77] Hooray! one less pretentious mac user!
jongalt	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:48:00 - [78] unfortunately, the UI is crap. i suggest the GUI designer read up on Edward Tufte's books. -jg.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.01.04 06:58:00 - [79] The OP has some valid points. The UI is rudimentary in a lot of ways. I'm hoping we'll see some improvement to it as we get to ambulation. Missions are very boring I agree with little to no variety. There really isn't much you can do with PVE missions though, I mean they were pretty boring in Star Wars Galaxies and City of Heroes too. It is their repetitive nature. I generally only do missions if I'm poor or getting standings for another corp or empire these days. It's not something I do very often. As for the death penalty. The death penalty is necessary in order to keep the game flowing. Without it the builders, like me, wouldn't have much to do that would keep us around. If you take out the penalty like what was done in SWG, then you'll see a lot of folks leave. The greatest problem I see for the game is that it takes an inordinate amount of time to get ready to do stuff. Whether this is getting a new ship and fittings, fueling a player owned station, etc. I think perhaps the time element is one reason the game is not more popular. I think the game would be a lot more fun if they just turned off fuel for POSs. It takes a lot of time, time that generally takes away from other activities such as mining, building, fighting, etc. Ice would still be useful to supply the capital fleets. I find it hard to believe that they need to refuel the stations reactors so frequently. It would also be impractical. Anyway good luck to the OP where ever they may go. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:01:00 - [80] Am I the only one who likes the UI? http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:10:00 - [81] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Am I the only one who likes the UI? I like it. ________
Galen Darksmith Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:10:00 - [82] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Am I the only one who likes the UI? I don't think it's as horrible as a lot of people make it out to be. It's more obtrusive than most, with a bit of a flight sim feel to it. I don't see which this is such a bad thing.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.04 07:49:00 - [83] i like it, needs a bit more customization though. being able to move the fleet/drone windows was a good start (part of the problem is a larger monitor would also help lots >.< )
Dathremar Odessa Operations Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:00:00 - [84] Not sure if you are still looking at this thread but here goes my 2 cents. I've only been playing for about 2 and half months (2.5 million SP), so in terms of most of these guys I'm a complete newb. I'll be the first to admit I felt much of what you have pointed out; and yes the UI blows but it is functional so I don't complain too much. It wasn't too long ago that I felt this game was completely boring, a waste time, and a needless grinding piece of garbage. However, that all changed when I found this wonderful corp and got into 0.0 space. The first time I flew in a small gang I was blown away. The PvP is just (no pun intended) out of this world. I couldn't even believe the tactics that my gang and the gang we were chasing were using. Thats when I realized that this wasn't your typical MMO and that this was the first time I experienced real PvP. Not some WoW battleground garbage. I have spent quite a bit of time PvPing and have seen some fantastic stuff. Sure I have made the occasional mistake and lost a few cruisers here and there. But you get back up and figure out what you did wrong. Learn from your mistakes. Oh and probably the most amazing thing I have ever experienced is large fleet combat. Nothing compares to nearly 200 people moving in union to another large fleet. The amount of coordination it requires is something your average MMO player can't even begin to grasp. Those were the days that made me play on. Yeah I fly crappy fitted cruisers, but I am having a blast and in no time I'll be flying around with bigger (or smaller ) and better ships. This is one that does require a few months to discover the true meat to this MMO. Every day it is completely different and every fight feels like your first. Nothing can beat that feeling.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.04 08:44:00 - [85] heh the eve pvp <3 one of the guys on ts said that he had been overseas in Iraq or Afghanistan, and that nothing got his heart racing as much as eve pvp o7
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.01.04 09:54:00 - [86] Originally by: Corvinae makes the game fell like its made of tedium. it pretty much is. the reason to play are the moments of pure, blinding brilliance that intersperse the tedium.* this does not apply to mining. again.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:02:00 - [87] Originally by: Corvinae Finally, when someone signs up for 14 days free and then pays for the game during those 14 days, having the paid sub start AFTER the trial time is over, instead of immediately, might help you not look like complete moneygrubbers. em.. it should do that... it did whit my account (not this one... the other 2 i have :/) ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
PhantomVyper Darkness Inc. Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:09:00 - [88] Originally by: Zeba And now we come to the real reasons you left Eve. Its simply not for you. Nothing wrong with the game or you really. You like pie and Eve is cake. Might I suggest you try one of the X2/3 series for your space game pleasure? Its got everything your looking for only its a single player game with freeform flight. Kinda like Eve only a space shooter with economic elements. If he is complaining about the UI then the X series is definetly not for him! Never played X3, but the UI in X2 was the most confusing mess I have ever encountered in any game!
mechtech Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2008.01.04 10:51:00 - [89] Originally by: Corvinae I understood and used insurance, i only died 3-4 times as i played into lvl II stuff. Running around reassembling a ship after a death makes the game fell like its made of tedium. Maybe that's one reason why eve didn't work out for you. You don't "play to lvl II stuff". Missions were never a focus of eve, and most players that do nothing but missions get bored very quickly. There is much more complexity and deepness to eve than simply running missions. Most of it involves joining a player corp and partaking in their plans for power/isk/fun/whatever. Also, the destructions can be a bit harsh for a new player, but it's better to show the player right off the bat that there are real consequences rather than baby them. It's better to learn your lessons while they are cheap, unlike some people who go into 0.0 with a BS and 3 mil SP. The player base isn't small either, it's quite healthy, and has been steadily growing from the games launch 4 years ago. Almost no mmos are still growing after 4 years. And even less stick to their original vision after 4 years. Not flaming, just giving most player's perspective on these issues.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:07:00 - [90] Originally by: Letava One last thing before I sleep, can someone at least agree with me that the chat channels are much better than in other MMOs? No, they're adequate, just like most other MMOs. I don't see why they should be so important (only in EVE you need to "watch local"). EVE's channels are generally more buggy/cumbersome/slow and there is no integration with logging, no customization/filtering, no whisper/tell. Mission text just gets written into local channel (previously in every window...), damage messages are handled in an extremly buggy/slow/limited separate logging window with no filtering options. OTOH you have more/free channels and can drag chat windows around more easily. Still a very minor part of the game, except for people who want to chat rather than play really... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:19:00 - [91] Tbh, you haven't really tried the game until you have joined a decent corp... ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Jazzar Gallente Bladerunners Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:23:00 - [92] Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I do wish CCP would open up the UI to third-party modification. Would do wonders for the game. This.
Azirapheal Amarr The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:23:00 - [93] Originally by: Corvinae Quote: Platform fanboyism is the worst reason to try out any program, of any kind. Here, the first complaint of a Mac fanboy who tried the game because it's on a Mac, is about the EVE UI. That says it all. You tried this game for the wrong reasons, no wonder you were disappointed. Just because it's on a Mac, doesn't mean it will meet your needs. And just because it's on Windows, doesn't mean it will suck. Stupid fanbois. LOL hostile much? FWIW i am a RTS guy at heart, to me multiplayer means playing VS other players, playing alongside/under command of other players is not my style. Yeah i got hooked on the MMO thing with WoW, but i am looking for something with a little more. spaceships>elves anyday in my book as well. I wish EvE had been it, there are definitely some good folks here. i fly WITH 6-7 guys agianst 200k other people your point isnt really valid there
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:47:00 - [94] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Am I the only one who likes the UI? I also like the UI. There's a lot of functionality which could be added, but I like the basic style and actually always found it quite intuitive once I learned to right click anything and everything. If they ever make big changes to it I would like an option to keep it as is. - DesuSigs
Mag's MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.01.04 12:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Kithron I agree, the UI mostly sucks. It really needs some work. I agree, the mission variety is pretty small. Eve is not about PvE, it is about PvP and empire building. I agree, the death penalty is harsh. Life is harsh, it adds to realism and immersion. It also gives you something to fight for. I agree, the subscription durin 14 day trials should start AFTER the 14 days. Despite the points you have raised, this is the best MMO I have ever played. It is so immersive you end up thinking about it way too much out of game, even. If the UI ever gets a true revamp, Eve players may just ascend, becoming pure energy just to merge with the internet and live in Eve Space. :) This. The drone UI still sucks mega chubby. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:08:00 - [96] Originally by: Corvinae the UI hasn't really caught up with windows 98. Sadly that's a bit too much credit... I was going to say more like Windows 3.1 but in all honesty it resembles OS/2 more. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:08:00 - [97] Originally by: Jazzar Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I do wish CCP would open up the UI to third-party modification. Would do wonders for the game. This. Quoted for truth! - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Carinus	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:16:00 - [98] Agreed that the UI is quite horrible. Don't you just love how the menu options rearange themselves depending on what you right click on? If I had a nickle for every skill book that I've jettisoned by accident I'd have... a few...
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:24:00 - [99] Well thanks for the responses, I see the forum mods saw my post at least so I feel my real goal was met. A couple responses to points i feel deserve it... If there is more interesting content to be experienced, it's too bad the devs keep it so hidden. If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. ime telling nubs to go to an already overcrowded system like jita is just mean I have little interest in joining a corp or flying in giant fleet ops, again multiplayer to me means playing VS other players not so much on a team and playing alongside others. so much of that process is waiting around for everyone else. Maybe that is what I disliked the most really, so much waiting around. waiting to crawl up to the wreck to loot it, waiting for skill points to tick. Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks.
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:28:00 - [100] Originally by: Corvinae Well thanks for the responses, I see the forum mods saw my post at least so I feel my real goal was met. A couple responses to points i feel deserve it... If there is more interesting content to be experienced, it's too bad the devs keep it so hidden. If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. ime telling nubs to go to an already overcrowded system like jita is just mean I have little interest in joining a corp or flying in giant fleet ops, again multiplayer to me means playing VS other players not so much on a team and playing alongside others. so much of that process is waiting around for everyone else. Maybe that is what I disliked the most really, so much waiting around. waiting to crawl up to the wreck to loot it, waiting for skill points to tick. Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks. If your idea of a multiplayer game is You Vs the World, then you really are in the wrong place. EVE is about working together, enjoying others company, having a common goal - whatever it is, and however you do it - and just going along like that. Thats why theres no lvl 70 end game, and it doesnt attract the kind of people that steal that bit of armour you've been after for weeks with your 40 man raids, only so that you can chase the next bit of armour. shrug Izo Azlion. ---
Zel'Nei	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:28:00 - [101] Actually the UI looks more like Windows 2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:31:00 - [102] Originally by: Corvinae Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks. Actually you can... hidden again and hopefully you are not being hit by missiles when you try it but.... If you click the can and keep the mouse button pressed it shows sort of a quick action menu which includes an open container option. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:31:00 - [103] Originally by: Corvinae Well thanks for the responses, I see the forum mods saw my post at least so I feel my real goal was met. A couple responses to points i feel deserve it... If there is more interesting content to be experienced, it's too bad the devs keep it so hidden. If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. ime telling nubs to go to an already overcrowded system like jita is just mean I have little interest in joining a corp or flying in giant fleet ops, again multiplayer to me means playing VS other players not so much on a team and playing alongside others. so much of that process is waiting around for everyone else. Maybe that is what I disliked the most really, so much waiting around. waiting to crawl up to the wreck to loot it, waiting for skill points to tick. Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks. Eve is a slow paced game and really not suited for everyone. I like it slow paced long term thingies though, and I really hope CCP will keep eve in the current niche it is in and not attempt to make it mainstream (how else can I keep my elitist bastard status?). I do disagree with your reasons but yes a lot of stuff is "hidden" (as in not given to you on a silver plate) but quite frankly even 2 mil SP characters can be an asset to PvP you just need to find the right corp to join. Anyways you tried it and you hated it, good luck finding the game you will enjoy. To bad earth and beyond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_&_Beyond) isn't around anymore, I think you would have liked that more then EvE by reading your comments. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:33:00 - [104] Originally by: Zel'Nei Actually the UI looks more like Windows 2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0 I challenge you to OS/2! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OS2_Chess.PNG - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:41:00 - [105] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Corvinae Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks. Actually you can... hidden again and hopefully you are not being hit by missiles when you try it but.... If you click the can and keep the mouse button pressed it shows sort of a quick action menu which includes an open container option. it opens the cargo and then you have to select and drag the loot. I'm not saying i hated eve, it was money and time well spent IMO, i should mention i liked the tactical nature of the combat, the look of the game (discounting ui), the main concept is all very cool. I don't think I'm asking for anything on a silver platter, but a few hints in game would be nice.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.04 15:52:00 - [106] Originally by: Shadowsword Tbh, you haven't really tried the game until you have joined a decent corp... To be equally honest, finding and joining a decent corporation in EVE is sorta like looking for a needle in a haystack blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back while dangling upside down from the ceiling by your toes. Finding said corporation in your first month of playing EVE would require an act of god. The original poster's assessment of EVE is a fair one, and he should not be faulted for it. The points he raises is what keeps the game in a niche market. Some prefer this, and some don't.
Rhaegor Stormborn Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:21:00 - [107] I agree the UI is terrible. I agree missions are boring and reptitive. That said, can I have your stuff? Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - The Volition Cult
Zel'Nei	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:28:00 - [108] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Zel'Nei Actually the UI looks more like Windows 2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0 I challenge you to OS/2! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OS2_Chess.PNG What about NeXTSTEP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTSTEP_desktop.jpg
Zinras Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:30:00 - [109] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Shadowsword Tbh, you haven't really tried the game until you have joined a decent corp... To be equally honest, finding and joining a decent corporation in EVE is sorta like looking for a needle in a haystack blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back while dangling upside down from the ceiling by your toes. Finding said corporation in your first month of playing EVE would require an act of god. The original poster's assessment of EVE is a fair one, and he should not be faulted for it. The points he raises is what keeps the game in a niche market. Some prefer this, and some don't. I managed to get a good one within a few days of joining the trial And later found an even better one when I started playing regularly But regarding the second one (my current corp) I did have an easier time, since the Danish EVE community is only 2.5% of the playerbase and many of the most active players center around one fansite
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:31:00 - [110] I came, I read, I laughed seriously the best part was where he/she said that the devs would be interested, then had absolutely nothing to say but that they didn't like the ui and hadn't really played the game Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:34:00 - [111] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Am I the only one who likes the UI? You and Crumplecorn, apparently. Really. It is that bad. A game that's at least 2 parts econ sim, and I can't have my corp orders up and simultaneously view a trend line on a commodity (nor can I draw my own facking trend lines). Anything involving corporate assets is utter *******s. I'm managing billions and I can't get so much as an automatic e-mail to notify me when deliveries hit a certain threshold? Why am I turning to other software applications and writing myself sticky notes for simple, everyday tasks when basic UI mods could parse this information for me without me having to deal with the associated tedium? And that's just my top-of-the-head kvetching. Given time, we could all name 100 needlessly complicated or counter-intuitive quirks of the UI. Assuming something limited with an open programming language, the players themselves can target the deficiencies. The UI gets cleaner and friendlier and CCP pays two guys to troubleshoot and bugfix instead of a dozen to recode the UI (or their current policy of zero people and we don't talk about it).
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Empire Research	Posted - 2008.01.04 16:40:00 - [112] Originally by: Kithron I agree, the UI mostly sucks. It really needs some work. I agree, the mission variety is pretty small. Eve is not about PvE, it is about PvP and empire building. I agree, the death penalty is harsh. Life is harsh, it adds to realism and immersion. It also gives you something to fight for. I agree, the subscription durin 14 day trials should start AFTER the 14 days. Despite the points you have raised, this is the best MMO I have ever played. It is so immersive you end up thinking about it way too much out of game, even. If the UI ever gets a true revamp, Eve players may just ascend, becoming pure energy just to merge with the internet and live in Eve Space. :) /signed _____________________________ Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co. Part of the Empire Research Alliance Look us up in Nomaa or Itamo to join!
Sin Fae Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:04:00 - [113] I've played Eve since 2004, and have not done a single NPC mission, so can't really comment on variety :o) Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow Originally by: Kithron I agree, the UI mostly sucks. It really needs some work. I agree, the mission variety is pretty small. Eve is not about PvE, it is about PvP and empire building. I agree, the death penalty is harsh. Life is harsh, it adds to realism and immersion. It also gives you something to fight for. I agree, the subscription durin 14 day trials should start AFTER the 14 days. /signed
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:08:00 - [114] Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 04/01/2008 17:11:25 Originally by: Corvinae If there is more interesting content to be experienced, it's too bad the devs keep it so hidden. Eve is a sandbox game. I don't know in how many places this is stated, but it is. This means the game itself doesn't give you goals. The game doesn't tell you that you need to do this and that and this to progress. If you choose to do missions, they'll give you some short goals, but not overarching goals or storyline. You make the story yourself. Half of the interesting content you can create yourself, you and/or your corp/alliance. That said, the other half is not just told to you in-game. Your first tutorial agents don't tell you, you need to try these things to have a true Eve experience. What the game does tell you is a bunch of game mechanics to get you started. There's tutorials that will explain briefly to find out some basics of most if not all of the things out there. You might need to go through the tutorials to discover what those are. There's tons of guides here on the forums or on the eve-online website to help you out, too. Quote: I have little interest in joining a corp or flying in giant fleet ops, again multiplayer to me means playing VS other players not so much on a team and playing alongside others. If you say you are bored playing this game solo, and you haven't even tried joining a corp then, (a) you haven't given the game a fair chance. The large majority of interesting things comes from having a corp to work together with. Also, (b) this game may not be for you. Some find interest in just mining in high sec, or mission running, solo their whole life, but mostly in Eve, you need to join a corp. How else are you going to be able to own a system of space, let alone a region? Who will come to your aid when you are on the short end of the stick? Quote: If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. You don't need to. You can be helpful from day one. Not as powerful, maybe, as those that have played for months or years, but still helpful. Most PvP might require you to be in a gang, and right out of the box you might be asked to be a tackler, but your comment here just proves you haven't even tried to find the answer before quitting. Can I have...? No, I don't want your stuff. My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums
Biggus Mammus	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:15:00 - [115] Can we have your address so we may send you a medal or something?
Rua Temples of Boom	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:18:00 - [116] You don't have to wait a few months at all. I have seen guys start trial accounts for the lulz and have them -5 and outlawed before the 14days was up. The only thing holding you back is your own game knowledge and skill. EVE is complex and hard to learn but saying you need 2 months to be useful is incorrect, you just need to be taught wtf you are doing.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:21:00 - [117] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 04/01/2008 17:23:36 Originally by: Corvinae Recovering from a death is the most tedious PITA gameplay mechanic I have encountered in all my decades of gaming. Personally i'd like to see a more expensive insurance policy (only available to frigates and possibly small industrials) that returns a ship of the type you lost fitted with the basic tech versions of the modules you had fitted at the time you paid your insurance. i think this would make it a lot easier for new players to get the hang of the game. Eve was my first MMO, so everything else I play I generally go "Oh, this is too easy" But yeah the interface ain't the greatest, and whilst I have a lot of issues with Eve, the scope is what really keeps me playing. I can always find something else to try if I get bored with what I'm doing atm Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruting
Zathi Shaitan Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:45:00 - [118] Originally by: Corvinae support CCP in it's efforts "it's" != "its" Originally by: Corvinae You don't want my stuff, it's crap. So is your spelling.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.04 17:59:00 - [119] Originally by: Zinras Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Shadowsword Tbh, you haven't really tried the game until you have joined a decent corp... To be equally honest, finding and joining a decent corporation in EVE is sorta like looking for a needle in a haystack blindfolded with your hands tied behind your back while dangling upside down from the ceiling by your toes. Finding said corporation in your first month of playing EVE would require an act of god. The original poster's assessment of EVE is a fair one, and he should not be faulted for it. The points he raises is what keeps the game in a niche market. Some prefer this, and some don't. I managed to get a good one within a few days of joining the trial And later found an even better one when I started playing regularly But regarding the second one (my current corp) I did have an easier time, since the Danish EVE community is only 2.5% of the playerbase and many of the most active players center around one fansite We are all occasionally blessed with luck. Experience says this is not the case for a large number of people.
Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.04 18:03:00 - [120] Lol a medal. I'm just tossing it out there, don't try to pretend devs don't want to hear feedback. maybe i'm not the playerbase they are looking for. Certainly I'm a noob and I won't deny it. I'm just tossing my 2c out there :) Quote: How else are you going to be able to own a system of space, let alone a region? Why would I want to own space? O.0 maybe I'm just not cut out for the MMO thing, I don't understand why people would want to own houses either. I want to blow stuff up when I have time to play, not wait around on a whole crowd of people to get themselves organized. Quote: I've played Eve since 2004, and have not done a single NPC mission, so can't really comment on variety :o) What do you do? Please don't tell me mining cause that was unspeakable Quote: You don't have to wait a few months at all. I have seen guys start trial accounts for the lulz and have them -5 and outlawed before the 14days was up. Maybe I'm missing something, (again) but once outlawed that character is shut out of the npc economy, right? I don't see that as a wise move no ware is save from the spalling/ytpo cops i see
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.04 18:13:00 - [121] Originally by: Corvinae Well thanks for the responses, I see the forum mods saw my post at least so I feel my real goal was met. A couple responses to points i feel deserve it... If there is more interesting content to be experienced, it's too bad the devs keep it so hidden. If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. ime telling nubs to go to an already overcrowded system like jita is just mean I have little interest in joining a corp or flying in giant fleet ops, again multiplayer to me means playing VS other players not so much on a team and playing alongside others. so much of that process is waiting around for everyone else. Maybe that is what I disliked the most really, so much waiting around. waiting to crawl up to the wreck to loot it, waiting for skill points to tick. Why can't you click on a wreck and have the option to loot everything to cargo? that seems the most glaring of oversights to make that operation take so many clicks. At first it is maddening waiting for those oh-so basic skills to come in. I remember it well! (Cue obligatory "When i was a noob we started with 20k SP and LIKED IT"). But after a while, once you have some vital stuff to level 4 and you're in a half-decent frigate, you can kick back, and enjoy the fact that the game will still have new things for you to do in a year or 3 years. At first, like everyone, I wanted to get in to a cruiser, battlecruiser, battleship, carrier, titan ASAP NOW NOW NOW! Luckily I met some good friends in the game, and now, after a year, I'm just starting to use T2 Cruisers... Ditching the skillgrind is a true blessing, but you have to play for a little while to appreciate it. As for hiding the content, well... some people LIKE having things to discover, rather than just knowing everything from the start. As others have said: EvE is a long term game. Patience is a primary asset. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Opel Astra	Posted - 2008.01.04 18:14:00 - [122] You see, you're obviously clueless, the point of EVE is to join a corp, build that corp up - be it pirating in lowsec, mining in highsec, or taking on the dev^H^H^H BoB in 0.0. Really, once you're in 0.0 for long, you'll never want to go to Empire ever again.
Letava Gallente Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.04 18:52:00 - [123] Originally by: Corvinae Quote: You don't have to wait a few months at all. I have seen guys start trial accounts for the lulz and have them -5 and outlawed before the 14days was up. Maybe I'm missing something, (again) but once outlawed that character is shut out of the npc economy, right? I don't see that as a wise move No, an outlaw is not restricted from any part of the game, although on entering 'safe' systems (0.5 or above) he will be shot by the faction's navy and sentry guns. I'm not really sure what you mean by the "NPC economy", NPCs sell very few items that would be of interest to an outlaw, and the ones that are can be bought in low sec (skillbooks and shuttles). Going outlaw is an inconvenience, but it need not be permanent and it doesn't prevent the outlaw from making money or buying items. -----------------------

CCP Mitnal	Posted - 2008.01.04 18:59:00 - [124] Moved to OOPE Mitnal, Community Representative EVE Online CCP Games Email/Netfang

Corvinae	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:17:00 - [125] Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:49 Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:27 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE right, i thought i was discussing eve :/ I'm out
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:21:00 - [126] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:49 Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:27 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE right, i thought i was discussing eve :/ I'm out All quitting posts are dumped down here now. As primarily an OOPE denizen, I am not particularly happy about my house being used as EVE-O's sewers... ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:31:00 - [127] haha that makes the op a sewer rat well at least theres your dev response Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:31:00 - [128] Originally by: Kithron I agree, the UI mostly sucks. It really needs some work. I agree, the mission variety is pretty small. Eve is not about PvE, it is about PvP and empire building. I agree, the death penalty is harsh. Life is harsh, it adds to realism and immersion. It also gives you something to fight for. I agree, the subscription durin 14 day trials should start AFTER the 14 days. Despite the points you have raised, this is the best MMO I have ever played. It is so immersive you end up thinking about it way too much out of game, even. If the UI ever gets a true revamp, Eve players may just ascend, becoming pure energy just to merge with the internet and live in Eve Space. :) this -- No love for the Matari
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:35:00 - [129] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:49 Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:27 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE right, i thought i was discussing eve :/ I'm out All quitting posts are dumped down here now. As primarily an OOPE denizen, I am not particularly happy about my house being used as EVE-O's sewers... Ahoy Patch. Gotta find somewhere to hide the bodies, neh? I suppose the best revenge is continuing to have meaningful discussion in the morgue. Too bad the meaningful parts get filed away with the smacktalk. So, to get this completely off topic and earn the lock: is it just me, or is OOPE post-Jim McG tinfoil hat threads a little too quiet?
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:37:00 - [130] its because lofty is awol Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:37:00 - [131] Nah, we've had a resurgence of anti-American threads to keep us busy for the last week or two. Still, Jim was fun. I especially liked the one about the crop circles. Wonder where he went? CIA? ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:46:00 - [132] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 04/01/2008 19:46:23 Originally by: Zel'Nei Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Zel'Nei Actually the UI looks more like Windows 2.0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0 I challenge you to OS/2! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OS2_Chess.PNG What about NeXTSTEP? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NeXTSTEP_desktop.jpg NeXT had the best GUI evar. I am tempted to buy a Mac because it ripped it off wholesale (even if it did *** out and add a desktop). The OP has a couple of points but this is OOPE so whatever EVE RELATED CONTENT**
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:47:00 - [133] Originally by: Patch86 Nah, we've had a resurgence of anti-American threads to keep us busy for the last week or two. Still, Jim was fun. I especially liked the one about the crop circles. Wonder where he went? CIA? Sold to Jenny Mk. 03. That's what I get for going on vacation, I miss the America bashing. T: Everyone, including Lofty, celebrates some end of year holiday.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.04 19:50:00 - [134] the year ended? WTF no one tells me anything I need to get out of this cubicle Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.01.04 21:59:00 - [135] Originally by: Corvinae If i need to play for a couple of months before I can do anything worthwhile, the game needs to add something at least somewhat fun during that time. How can I even know if i will like PvP if I have to play for months before i even try. maybe i'm completely missing something, but there is no opportunity for any kind of low lvl pvp. Yes, you are missing something. Please watch this video: Low skillpoint piracy - Rifter. There is also a thread somewhere in the Crime and Punishment section of the forums about the life and times of a low-skilled pirate, describing the available skills and ships and their setups. And all this was possible before the new character skillpoint boost. IMO you've been contaminated by the other MMO's mind-viruses and aren't looking past the simple PVE/prearranged-PVP possibilities of other games to see what the EVE's sandbox design is giving you. ...
mamolian Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:05:00 - [136] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Jazzar Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I do wish CCP would open up the UI to third-party modification. Would do wonders for the game. This. Quoted for truth! DO WANT! -----------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.01.04 22:08:00 - [137] Sorry to hear you failed to see the game behind the UI. --- Its dead, Jim.
corroded	Posted - 2008.01.04 23:59:00 - [138] ui isnt as good as it could be, on that i agree. the rest of the "hidden" stuff, well , you have to want to do something on your own accord in this game, you are rarely told what to do (or how to do it). Well, not by the game anyway, some players try though. point is, do whatever the heck you want. a 2 day old can become a murderer, a 10 second old can become a trader. the only thing thats static are the missions, but even that is still pretty loosely framed. one major gripe i have with the ui: Why the heck do you devs insist on putting the evil commands right next to the ones we use the most? "return to bay" being right next to "abandon drone" reprocess, trash, eject, jettison, repackage etc etc etc. put em all down at the bottom already.
Benglada Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.01.05 02:54:00 - [139] i like the ui :S --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.05 06:19:00 - [140] Originally by: Corvinae Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:49 Edited by: Corvinae on 04/01/2008 19:17:27 Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE right, i thought i was discussing eve :/ I'm out when you leave the game you have to get out of your pod duh
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.01.05 09:31:00 - [141] Originally by: Patch86 Still, Jim was fun. I especially liked the one about the crop circles. Wonder where he went? CIA? Probably the last corporation on earth I would want to work for. Does the CIA make the world a better or worse place? So far, they seem to be working on scaring americans with the fake bin laden tapes and doing a fine job at it. Wonder when they will confess the man has been dead since 2001. Probably when the next president takes over and Bush is tanning in Florida... --- Its dead, Jim.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2008.01.05 18:41:00 - [142] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE Why?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2008.01.06 05:48:00 - [143] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: CCP Mitnal Moved to OOPE Why? Because the word "quit" trumps five pages of EVE-related discussion.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.06 15:42:00 - [144] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Patch86 Still, Jim was fun. I especially liked the one about the crop circles. Wonder where he went? CIA? Probably the last corporation on earth I would want to work for. Does the CIA make the world a better or worse place? So far, they seem to be working on scaring americans with the fake bin laden tapes and doing a fine job at it. Wonder when they will confess the man has been dead since 2001. Probably when the next president takes over and Bush is tanning in Florida... I didn't mean working for them ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Sister Impotentata Elite Angels Of Death	Posted - 2008.01.06 19:43:00 - [145] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Patch86 Still, Jim was fun. I especially liked the one about the crop circles. Wonder where he went? CIA? Probably the last corporation on earth I would want to work for. Does the CIA make the world a better or worse place? So far, they seem to be working on scaring americans with the fake bin laden tapes and doing a fine job at it. Wonder when they will confess the man has been dead since 2001. Probably when the next president takes over and Bush is tanning in Florida... Really? I can't remember the last CIA press release that scared me. Oh wait. I can't remember any CIA press releases. Perhaps that's because the CIA doesn't address the people. If something the CIA discovered scares you, you have only the politicians they brief to blame. ----- TANSTAAFL Originally by: BB Lazy Lob and Crazy Cob are weaving webs to wind me. I am far more sweet than other meat, but still they cannot find me!
N Ano G.B.H.D	Posted - 2008.01.07 00:08:00 - [146] i came, i read, i got bored, i left sig coming soon tm
Shionoya Risa The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services	Posted - 2008.01.07 00:19:00 - [147] Originally by: mamolian Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Jazzar Originally by: Ursula LeGuinn I do wish CCP would open up the UI to third-party modification. Would do wonders for the game. This. Quoted for truth! DO WANT! I want more. ----- Quote: Argh! Natural light, get it off me! Get it off me!

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