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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2420
   |
Posted - 2012.06.13 06:06:00 -
[151] - Quote
Games do die. It's just that the death scenes can drag on for years and the fallen corpse has a tendency to twich quite a bit. |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 13:21:00 -
[152] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:I don't think games just die. Even Unreal Tournament which is very old, still has some servers up and running.
UT has redeeming qualities.
SWTOR does not. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2534
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 06:29:00 -
[153] - Quote
Looks like the downward trend of subs has finally gotten the publisher to react. SWtoR is going F2P. From full sub WoW killer to F2P within the first year. That's a solid flop in my book  |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
571
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 07:02:00 -
[154] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Looks like the downward trend of subs has finally gotten the publisher to react. SWtoR is going F2P. From full sub WoW killer to Pay-to-Win within the first year. That's a solid flop in my book
Fixed, but, truth.
The lifelong StarWars fan in me -- as in: first run in theatres -- cannot help but haz a sad at this, though.
Still and all,
A) Is this surprising? Is it, really?
B) There might just be, as it were...well, A New Hope(TM) on the horizon.
Why am I dreaming of some strange woman who keeps telling me, "You fail at life because you are cloaked?" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8850
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 07:30:00 -
[155] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Looks like the downward trend of subs has finally gotten the publisher to react. SWtoR is going F2P. From full sub WoW killer to F2P within the first year. That's a solid flop in my book
I suppose it's a flop in terms of RoI, but it's also fully in line with what one might expect. They overestimated the draw of an IP that's already on death watch; they picked a content design that has proven very high-maintenance; and they picked a progression track that catered toGǪ ehmGǪ those of shorter attention spans. Not the recipe for high-investment/long-return yumminess.
All in all, it follows the general trend of converging with non-massive online games: more and more game offer some kind of progression and persistence in the form of stats tracking and achievements, and they are designed to be replaced by the 20XX version a year or two later. The question is which caused which, and what is the direction of the reinforcement cycle: did games teach players to expect the N+1 version in a year and to not get all that invested, or is that just a result of online gaming becoming more mainstream, so the expectations were there all along and the game have only now started to cater to them?
Then again, one might question how GÇÿmassiveGÇÖ recent MMOs really are. Maybe that's part of it: what's the point of setting up these large persistent shards when the actual gameplay doesn't leverage those numbers? Are the MMO producers setting themselves up for failure by incurring far larger costs than their games really warrant or require? Will the modern MMO become more like the modern FPSes: a two-year fix for small(ish) groups until the next version comes out with some updated graphics and more over-the-top plots, only these games are built around stats-selection and co-op rather than weapon-selection and shooting other players.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
575
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 11:03:00 -
[156] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[...] Will the modern MMO become more like the modern FPSes: a two-year fix for small(ish) groups until the next version comes out with some updated graphics and more over-the-top plots, only these games are built around stats-selection and co-op rather than weapon-selection and shooting other players.
Oh, Gods, how horrid.
I certainly hope not, but gamers in general, compared to even 4-5 years ago are just shallow, immature, and...well...stupid.
No two ways around it.
Thank the Mother of All Gods for EVE-O, warts, ::CCP::, and all.
Above and Beyond Technologies' (IIRC?) The Repopulation is one to keep an eye on, IMHO, as well as hoping/dreaming/praying that Infinity: Quest or Earth ever gets beyond vapourware.
Why am I dreaming of some strange woman who keeps telling me, "You fail at life because you are cloaked?" |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:32:00 -
[157] - Quote
Oh for the love that is everything holy who in the living hell drug this cesspool up? For weeks this cancer ridden bus wrecked burn victim of a thread haunted the front page because the idiot child of a poster kept rebumping it with their logic of sloth. It took so long to lay this to rest and now one of you evil sons of bitches necro'd the unholy beast. There is a special place in hell for you. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
577
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:21:00 -
[158] - Quote
Ohaidere!
I are kyute kitten!
Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Against ALL Authorities
421
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:26:00 -
[159] - Quote
I have some die hard SWTOR players in the office here and the mutual consensus seem to be : Meh who cares 
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES !
Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Jim Era
The Syndicate Inc
En Garde
27
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:26:00 -
[160] - Quote
star wars has expired.
its over.
deal with it
stop trying to make more star wars things (besides legos because they're cewl) |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
578
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 01:28:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:star wars has expired.
its over.
deal with it
stop trying to make more star wars things (besides legos because they're cewl)
Don't forget the Ryan v. Dork-man videos!
Meta-gaming for carebears:
Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. |
Arkturus McFadden
Sonoran Shadow
Black Mesa Complex
153
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 05:13:00 -
[162] - Quote
Really hits me that this game isn't going to make it.
I followed it for four years, made an RP group and we basically waited all that time..
Then when it finally released we played till February and ultimately we all just said.. yeah.. this isn't pre-cu SWG..
..and left.
Such a tragic end to a Star Wars game..hopefully one day we'll see the rise of truly amazing Star Wars games again.
Tie Fighter? Jedi Knight Series? Battlefront?
... hell even a rehash of SWG?
One can only dream.
|
pussnheels
503
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 09:11:00 -
[163] - Quote
next MMO that is going to fail will be TES online ( the elders scroll) , sure they still working on it and willbe a long while before it comes out, but looks like it will be another WoWclone and will probably dissapoint its longtime hardcore fans of the series , including me
Sadly i just got myself banned from their forums for saying that 95 % of all console games are kiddies games
damn kids and their xbox
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 12:21:00 -
[164] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:next MMO that is going to fail will be TES online ( the elders scroll) , sure they still working on it and willbe a long while before it comes out, but looks like it will be another WoWclone and will probably dissapoint its longtime hardcore fans of the series , including me
I'm also expecting a huge disappointment for the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's such a shame to see the series ruined by what will undoubetdly be yet another failed WoW clone. I wish these people would realise that copying WoW = failure, can't they see the trend?
If people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW, it has lots of players already there, and the game has been polished over many years. Why should they go play some clone of it, just because it has a different name? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
4378
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 13:23:00 -
[165] - Quote
Arkturus McFadden wrote:Really hits me that this game isn't going to make it.
I followed it for four years, made an RP group and we basically waited all that time..
Then when it finally released we played till February and ultimately we all just said.. yeah.. this isn't pre-cu SWG..
..and left.
Such a tragic end to a Star Wars game..hopefully one day we'll see the rise of truly amazing Star Wars games again.
Tie Fighter? Jedi Knight Series? Battlefront?
... hell even a rehash of SWG?
One can only dream.
Why were you expecting anything like SWG? Bioware were very open about what kind of experience they were aiming for.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
579
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:17:00 -
[166] - Quote
Pix Severus wrote:pussnheels wrote:next MMO that is going to fail will be TES online ( the elders scroll) , sure they still working on it and willbe a long while before it comes out, but looks like it will be another WoWclone and will probably dissapoint its longtime hardcore fans of the series , including me I'm also expecting a huge disappointment for the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's such a shame to see the series ruined by what will undoubetdly be yet another failed WoW clone. I wish these people would realise that copying WoW = failure, can't they see the trend? If people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW, it has lots of players already there, and the game has been polished over many years. Why should they go play some clone of it, just because it has a different name?
I have to agree with this as well. As soon as they released their plans for the game I took one look and logged off. I was hoping for something more along the lines of Skyrim Online. Get rid of usual class system and let people build a character on skills like we have here (major win for ccp).
And outside of that I have had other ideas for games like bringing back player built strongholds on the open world, more variance in character selection (Fantasy, FF variance of character models), and a stronger player influence (economy and politics) rather than turn the game into raid grind online. I want to see people actually fight for resources, actually work together to defend a keep, send out raids on little convoys, put the content in the players hands. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians
Iberians.
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 10:33:00 -
[167] - Quote
As a former WoW player, some times I get the urge to install and play something similar.
I tried Age of Conan, D&D online, Lord of the Rings online, and a few others.
None of them caught my attention at all.
Last week I downloaded the free trial of SWTOR, having been a die hard SW fan since the early 80's.
Honestly, I couldn't endure it past level 10 of my only character, a Sith Warrior. I reached the Sith fleet, turned him into a Sith Juggernaut and uninstalled it.
The story was NOT as compelling as it had been mentioned to me. The graphics were dissapointing in a computer that can run Skyrim at very high settings, and 90% of the Sith Warrior skills are directly copied from my old Prot Warrior in WoW.
It didn't feel in any way like KOTOR or other Bioware RPGs (which I absolutely adore).
No redeeming factors whatsoever. Bland and generic gameplay, and overall dissapointing.
And the problem is that they DON'T understand that WoW being 10 years old doesn't matter ONE BIT. You cannot compare a game you want to charge money for NOW with its competition FROM THE PAST.
If you are to release a WoW clone, at the very least make sure it has ALL the features WoW has now. I can see SWTOR couldn't wait until the devs implemented 15 raids, but for the love of god, there is NO excuse not to have a group finder or double talent trees at launch.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2539
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:30:00 -
[168] - Quote
Now that I've actually looked at the F2P /sub comparison chart they're going for I'm a bit perplexed. It's a hybrid model like in LoTRO, with some differences, but I'm not sure how they plan on making money of it. You get all the story content for free, which is arguably the only redeeming quality of the game. The problem is, that if you get that for free, why would you pay for anything outside vanity options? Naturally there are some limitations, but they are in areas, that aren't considered good or are only minor inconveniences.
From what I've read and been told the game has no economy and crafting isn't a strong point either. Leveling is also fast, character creator is one of the weakest in recent years and all the alien races are just retextured humans. It just seems, that the advantages you get from paying for anything, as the game currently is, are non-existant. You have to pay to regularly access the multiplayer aspects, but that is done better by almost every competitor they have. It just seems weird to me, that you give the only strong content you have for free, while trying to make money on the content, that is the weakest.
The vanity market might be strong, since some of the current art style of clothing/armor is hated by the players. I'm sure stuff like black lightsaber blades and other lightsaber crystals will also sell quite nicely. It'll look awful and increasingly less and less like starwars or a coherent universe stylisticly, but it'll sell. I just don't think that's enough and they'll have to heavily rework the game or introduce P2W to get people to spend money.
|
Rashmika Clavain
Shadows Of The Federation
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 14:59:00 -
[169] - Quote
TL:DR?
ToR could've been spectacular.
Too much develpment focus in unecessary areas.
EA probably hamstrung it.
F2P within a year.
 |
Tian Jade
Bad Bumblebee Incorporated
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:47:00 -
[170] - Quote
The problem was probably not EA but Bioware being inexperienced in the MMORPG business.
For a entertainment park RPG it was not enough like WoW, meaning there was not enough endgame content after players had burned through the level content to get to max level as fast as possible.
The level content with it's fully voiced over multiple choice dungeons is one of high maintenance. Meaning Bioware cannot just easily reskin a few NPC fiddle a bit with their toolset and then throw out new flashpoints every few weeks.
The people enjoying sandbox MMO and Sci Fi games were probably turned away by the fact that the game gives only an illusion of choice, with no real freedom on how to progress. Also the tunnel shooter they put in and labeled space combat turned away a lot of fans who might still have enjoyed the game. Besides the game is called star wars and the movies were never only about light sabers and the force, but also about epic space battles and at that point Bioware also failed. |
NeoShocker
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
130
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 02:33:00 -
[171] - Quote
Heh, glad I saved about 400+ dollars from not buying those games (400+ steam games mind you) because I knew they (SWTOR, WHO, Conan, etc) won't appeal to me in a long run, unlike Ragnarok Online (4 years) and Eve-Online (6 years and counting).
Good thing I made a vow to never try another "hack and slash" games after RO unless it REALLY appealed to me. Only WoW lasted me about a year, no other games got close (usually 2 weeks or less). As soon as I reached my first max level after Wraith of the Lich King expansion came out, I immediately quit the game. The thought of doing long hours of raiding for good gear ...
|
Astenion
Nephilim Coalition
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
160
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 22:22:00 -
[172] - Quote
It's really sad. I played until recently, and although I enjoy the game, if it weren't SW I wouldn't play it. When I came to that realization it just kinda bummed me out. There's no endgame to SWTOR and content is few and far between. I enjoyed the first couple of characters I leveled up to 50, but after that it's just a grind.
Ah well. Still got mah good ole trusty Eve. |
SpaceSquirrels
284
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 22:35:00 -
[173] - Quote
LOL I do remember reading previews, and the author, and from what I garnered from the info that it was the same old song and dance with star wars in the title.
And damn did I ever catch flak for saying that. But honestly how many out of the dozens of starwars games that are released are spectacular games? 10%? Now add that to dated MMO mechanics, and pay model. What did you think was going to happen?
Granted most MMO's these days seem to have a substantial release then bottom out, and then find a loyal albeit small player base.
Furthermore the definition for measure of success in MMO's me thinks is changing. |
Elias Greyhand
Potentially Irresponsible
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 22:36:00 -
[174] - Quote
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Pix Severus wrote:pussnheels wrote:next MMO that is going to fail will be TES online ( the elders scroll) , sure they still working on it and willbe a long while before it comes out, but looks like it will be another WoWclone and will probably dissapoint its longtime hardcore fans of the series , including me I'm also expecting a huge disappointment for the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's such a shame to see the series ruined by what will undoubetdly be yet another failed WoW clone. I wish these people would realise that copying WoW = failure, can't they see the trend? If people want to play WoW, they'll play WoW, it has lots of players already there, and the game has been polished over many years. Why should they go play some clone of it, just because it has a different name? I have to agree with this as well. As soon as they released their plans for the game I took one look and logged off. I was hoping for something more along the lines of Skyrim Online. Get rid of usual class system and let people build a character on skills like we have here (major win for ccp).
Like a lot of games concepts these days, as I soon as I heard TES MMO I died a little bit more inside. |
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