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MaDeX XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2008.01.09 16:15:00 - [91] Post constructively. ~Saint
Krystalena Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.09 16:24:00 - [92] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Edited by: Angel DeMorphis on 08/01/2008 19:25:13 You do realize that local not only helps carebears, but pirates as well? Or would you, nasty pirate you, like going from system to system, planet to planet, scanning several times per system just to find out if someone's even there for you to gank? If you think pirating is boring now, if carebear heads to safety when he sees you in system, how boring do you think it will be when it takes you that much longer just to find if you might possibly have a target, not that it matters because the carebears will probably just use the directional scanner that much more heavily as well, see you looking for him, and still head for safety. In other words, you can fly a recon ship, but you want to make it easier to snag someone before they're even in system, so you came up with a half-baked idea that's been brought up many times before to try to make your ship more effective/get more kills, not realizing that it would affect you in the negative just as much? In short, I agree with no. At least for the pirate it would be a "hunt", which can be pretty fun, rewarding, and adrenaline pumping when the fruits of your labor do actually pay off.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.09 16:34:00 - [93] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/01/2008 16:34:32 During 1 CCP patch, local was removed due to a bug. It gave us a chance to kill dozens of people who would otherwise never undock. However, it also wasted a lot of my time as well. Other than station systems, people were basically invisible, especially with a cloak. in short, theoretically a good idea - but practically a crap one for the pvper who hunts targets. Eve does not need removal of local to encorage pvp - in fact, with alts, 0.0 becomes a bigger carebear heaven. It needs CCP to FORCE the carebears who want risk free 0.0 to fight. This is not done via removal of local - it id done by creating sitations that force carebears to fight to the death if they want 0.0 riches. E.G if all rats scrambled, then you can take on any isk farmer. The isk farmer can decide if they want to risk themselves by farming a spawn or not, since ratting with wcs/cloak/sensor booster setup is virtually risk free. A pirate/enemy/goodie can, upon entering local, get a fight if he catches the pirate at a belt. There are hundreds of situations in eve where fighting can be forced, but removal of local is not going to be one of them I am afraid -- Billion Isk Mission
MaDeX XxTiggerxX Corp SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2008.01.09 16:36:00 - [94] 1 point may I add to that, ive noticed an increase of isk farmers doing the courier missions...
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.09 16:59:00 - [95] Originally by: Ephemeron One small positive side effect of local nerf is that Chinese isk farmers in 0.0 are going to get ganked badly. Right now they rely heavily on local to tell them when to log off or cloak. A local nerf is a nerf to isk selling websites. (in a small way) A compelling arguement CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.01.09 17:03:00 - [96] FFS won't this topic just Die? All it will do is make people have to press the Scanner button every 10 seconds. Because if you remove Local, you're going to have some tool to allow you to scan the system - and that tool will become the new Local! Except this time you have to press a button every few seconds to do so! No, No and Hell No!
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.09 17:47:00 - [97] Quote: Makes no sense that you can see all people in system, it ruins game immersion. Wait, what? How? It makes perfect sense. Every ship that appears in a system got there by going through a jump gate. If there's any kind of entity controlling the system, all they have to do is monitor the jump gates to have a 100% accurate view of who is in the system.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.09 19:57:00 - [98] I would not like to remove local compleet. Simply only show players that post, otherwise only the numbers of Players in the System. So you know there is something but you don¦t know is it frind or foe or what Race/Age so you have to check this out with more risk. You will still be able to see if someone comes into the System and heavy populated systems will make it harder to check if there is a solo enemy in the System that tryes to gank you and disapeer again. Also you still be able to notice if someone enters the Systems or ab big Gang drops in. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
SPQRMocton Minmatar Calmarr Technologies	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:06:00 - [99] hmm remove local ,well there is some merit to it but perhaps the answer is that if you don't type anything in local no one knows your there, This might work as then you would actually have to send in a scout and check the gate area b4 you commited to jumping anyone else in, might also lead to tactical warfare. and as far as the forces occupying the sytem they would have to have a gate gaurd posted and the rest out of sight waiting to warp to the gate if the wanted to maintain secrecy. While this is not a post for yes or no it's an idea worth exploring If You work to insure Loyalty points With a Corp be sure you can spend them someday
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:37:00 - [100] Originally by: Drizit Edited by: Drizit on 09/01/2008 01:52:53 Originally by: NightmareX Oh, forgot to tell that the day CCP remove local so carebears can go into low sec without risking to die, the day MANY PVPers will leave this game. I don't want to see EVE as a boring carebear game with alot of 'BOO HOO i can be killed by pvpers and that's sucks' players here. Wrong! Removal of local helps pirates as much as carebears. The current system actually helps carebears more by allowing them to see the bad guys in the system so they can log/dock/ss/whatever immediately. Local removal actually allows pirates to sneak up on their prey without detection. Local removal has just as many pros and cons on each side (pirate and carebear alike), it does not favour any side more than the other. It even allows formations of fleets for sneak attacks with little chance of detection. Catching your enemy with their pants down is just as much a tactic of war as a head on attack. It would also encourage the use of the scanner the way it was intended rather than simply relying on local.This serves two purposes. First is to teach new players to use the scanner as a matter of common practice. Second is to bring in a level of skill to the game in terms of the correct use of the scanner. In short. Your point of view is 100% wrong, and removal of local HEAVILY favors the hunters and not the hunted. Sorry. Try again. Making a ratter or miner hit the "scan" button every 30 seconds for 2 hours would suck. It would suck hard. bad, and heavily. Eventually people wouldnt do it. You would call them "lazy". I would call them people who got so ****ed off with a farked up game mechanic, they simply dont care anymore. It might seem balanced on paper. But in the course of real life events, Pirate. jumps into system. hits scan once or twice, no one there, moves on to new system Carebeaar. Mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan. screw that. Also, all the things you piointed out are how it would favor the hunter. So you are only making my point for me. _________________________________
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:43:00 - [101] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: Ashira Twilight I don't understand why people seem to think that removing local would hurt the carebears. All ships have scanners! Removing local would be cool for both sides, IF ship scanners were tweaked and modules were introduced to change the nature of one's scanner. Removing local and forcing people to use active scanners hurts dumber players more. Typically, it is assumed that carebears are dumber, that's why many people say it would hurt carebears more. It could work both ways. The bottom line is that removing local and boosting scanners forces people to rely more on their own game playing skills. no, it would force them to hit the scan button over and over and over and over and over again till they finally said screw it and moved to high sec cause they got so mad at hitting scan 30 million times. Also, scanner range makes it prohibitive. By the time you detect someone on scanner, they would be on top of you. I will support a local removel if, and ONLY if, you can provide a system where the risk / reward stays IDENTICAL to how it is now. :) For example, if Im in a system, and I have my scanner going. First, it needs to reach out to incredible ranges so you can detect someone in a reasonable ammount of time to react. Also, id like to be able to program my scanner to alert me to certain things. This is after all a gazillion years in the future! So as soon as it detects someone who isnt blue, I want it to warn me! If something like this were implimented, I might go laong with a nerf local. :) It just seems to me, the people who want to remove local, only want easier kills. They of course deny that is the case, but that only makes them a liar as well. _________________________________
nether void Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:44:00 - [102] Originally by: Turin Also, all the things you piointed out are how it would favor the hunter. So you are only making my point for me. If there's one thing I've learned about most pirates on these boards is they never seem to be able to consider anything from the opposite perspective. When you make any change to a game, you must consider all types of play; not just your own. --------------------------- nethervoid - since '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|PS\|EVE\|HZ\|NWN\|VG\|WoW]
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:48:00 - [103] Originally by: shismo Hello! ultimate carebear here. Please remove local. This will make me go into low sec again. The problem is that any pirate can come into a low sec system, and see that i am there, and then try to hunt me down. If there is no local, they wont know if there is anyone in the system! They would have to start probing! Thats a lot of probes and time they would need to spend to even find a target worth probing out in the first place! No local makes everyone safer. Its much easier to check the scanner every now and then to see if someones closing in on you, than it is to probe someone out. And this will make belt piracy come back! Though it would be kind of lame to be sitting in a belt and have 10 ships warp in on me. What happened to the days when an ubered out rifter could come and own my ratting caracal? That was some fun back then ;_; It seemed more personal. Hello Mr Pirate trying to pose as a carebear. _________________________________
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.09 20:58:00 - [104] Originally by: Turin Wrong! Removal of local helps pirates as much as carebears. The current system actually helps carebears more by allowing them to see the bad guys in the system so they can log/dock/ss/whatever immediately. Local removal actually allows pirates to sneak up on their prey without detection. Local removal has just as many pros and cons on each side (pirate and carebear alike), it does not favour any side more than the other. It even allows formations of fleets for sneak attacks with little chance of detection. Catching your enemy with their pants down is just as much a tactic of war as a head on attack. It would also encourage the use of the scanner the way it was intended rather than simply relying on local.This serves two purposes. First is to teach new players to use the scanner as a matter of common practice. Second is to bring in a level of skill to the game in terms of the correct use of the scanner. In short. Your point of view is 100% wrong, and removal of local HEAVILY favors the hunters and not the hunted. Sorry. Try again. Making a ratter or miner hit the "scan" button every 30 seconds for 2 hours would suck. It would suck hard. bad, and heavily. Eventually people wouldnt do it. You would call them "lazy". I would call them people who got so ****ed off with a farked up game mechanic, they simply dont care anymore. It might seem balanced on paper. But in the course of real life events, Pirate. jumps into system. hits scan once or twice, no one there, moves on to new system Carebeaar. Mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan. screw that. Also, all the things you piointed out are how it would favor the hunter. So you are only making my point for me. Actually, the more I come to think about it the more I favour removing local chat. And I am die-hard carebear It took a few seconds before I realized what was so strange with your example. And then it hit me, a miner with no escort to protect him? Eh? It is the escorts duty to scan for enemies, not the miners worry. And for local chat in High-security, it is of little help if corps is at war, in systems with 200+ in local you will be lucky to see enemies in the local chat window. You will have to scroll so much.
nether void Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:14:00 - [105] Originally by: Victor Forge It took a few seconds before I realized what was so strange with your example. And then it hit me, a miner with no escort to protect him? Eh? It is the escorts duty to scan for enemies, not the miners worry. What person that want's to pvp (since he's running escort) would just sit next to a miner for long periods of time? In a way it would be like saying 'Hey pirate, if you want to be able to pirate efficiently in low sec, you need to bring a miner'. --------------------------- nethervoid - since '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|PS\|EVE\|HZ\|NWN\|VG\|WoW]
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:19:00 - [106] Originally by: nether void Originally by: Victor Forge It took a few seconds before I realized what was so strange with your example. And then it hit me, a miner with no escort to protect him? Eh? It is the escorts duty to scan for enemies, not the miners worry. What person that want's to pvp (since he's running escort) would just sit next to a miner for long periods of time? In a way it would be like saying 'Hey pirate, if you want to be able to pirate efficiently in low sec, you need to bring a miner'. what he said. _________________________________
Chi'an Peimei Caldari Draconian Toymaker Corp	Posted - 2008.01.09 21:51:00 - [107] Wait!! I have an idea!! While you are over-powering Covert Ops, destabilizing the game economy, and making hit-or-miss changes to the player base I have another idea. Lets totally remove the Skill system, and add in a level that shows your general combat effectiveness. Seriously though, I have been through this kind of sweeping change on Galaxies, and have no desire to go find another MMO to play. Think about what you are doing for a minute, then have the grace to be ashamed. Sweeping changes like this must be supported by at the vast majority of the player base, otherwise all those who don't like it will just leave. That may sound nice to some of you, but let me point out one possible repercussion of changing the current system. Ok, you change or remove local, great. Now, I go mine, and scan and mine and I start to think how lame the repetitive system is.... and is it worth my time. So I decide it isnt worth my time and log out.... then cancel my account and go play something else.... Now here is the tricky part. Lets say 5-7 thousand people do this.... Now, who is mining? The mineral market rises to point where no one buys anything on the market... and the game has already started to die the slow horrible rotting death that is Galaxies... Be glad you aren't Devs.... I know I am. Tobias Creed did tell you all that I am more offensive than he is... Now go do the dishes like your mom is screaming so you can come back to your basement and play more EVE online
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:01:00 - [108] Turin and nether void are owning this thread. Quote: In short. Your point of view is 100% wrong, and removal of local HEAVILY favors the hunters and not the hunted. Sorry. Try again. Making a ratter or miner hit the "scan" button every 30 seconds for 2 hours would suck. It would suck hard. bad, and heavily. Eventually people wouldnt do it. You would call them "lazy". I would call them people who got so ****ed off with a farked up game mechanic, they simply dont care anymore. It might seem balanced on paper. But in the course of real life events, Pirate. jumps into system. hits scan once or twice, no one there, moves on to new system Carebeaar. Mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan mine scan. screw that. This, in particular.
Zanarkand Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:05:00 - [109] Edited by: Zanarkand on 09/01/2008 22:05:42 Originally by: Turin risk / reward stays IDENTICAL to how it is now. :) As in absolutely no risk at all?
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:21:00 - [110] I support the removal of Local "ONLY" if it is replaced with something that is just as easy to use and that works even better for making lazy gankers whine. Again, what replaces local must be AT LEAST as easy to use, and AT LEAST as effective for getting lazy ganker whines. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Zanarkand Gallente Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:31:00 - [111] Redesign local to only show up when you speak in local. All carebears will still be 100% safe, yet it would nerf local as an intelligence tool.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.09 22:33:00 - [112] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 09/01/2008 22:35:46 Idea: Replace local with a scanner that can: -- be augmented with drones dropped around a system to get full system coverage. -- That has an automatic "rescan every second" function -- That can be tailored so system trash can be line item removed (In addition to telling the scanner to see, or not see, a certain class of ship, I could tell it to not see a "specific", "individual" ship. Say, for example, Sabre named "Fred" is parked at a friendly POS. I could tell the scanner to not see that individual Sabre. But if another Sabre came into system, even if it was named "Fred", I'd see it). -- and maybe some more functions to increase the whiny agony of lazy folks even more.... Edit: One more manditory function: If a cloaked ship is in the Scan area, while it would not show up,you WOULD get a message: "Cloaked ships in scan area" Play nice while you butcher each other.
Kumq uat Gallente Round Table Enterprises New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:23:00 - [113] So what if you were only gone from local if you cloaked? I think that might be a fair compromise. www.eve-pirate.com author and goat molestor.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:43:00 - [114] Originally by: Princess Jodi All it will do is make people have to press the Scanner button every 10 seconds. Because if you remove Local, you're going to have some tool to allow you to scan the system - and that tool will become the new Local! Except this time you have to press a button every few seconds to do so! I propose that CCP automates that process, make Overview show active scanner data that is similar to pressing scanner button every second, only the game does it for you. Would you be happy then? People will rely on Overview/scanner data much more than the local chat, of course, that's the point.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:46:00 - [115] Originally by: Turin no, it would force them to hit the scan button over and over and over and over and over again till they finally said screw it and moved to high sec cause they got so mad at hitting scan 30 million times. Also, scanner range makes it prohibitive. By the time you detect someone on scanner, they would be on top of you. I strongly, strongly recommend that any nerf to local should be accompanied by a boost to active scanning! I definitely don't want to force people to click Scan button every second for hours and hours. The game should do that automatically!
Feilamya Minmatar Against all Rules SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2008.01.10 00:47:00 - [116] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 09/01/2008 22:35:46 Idea: Replace local with a scanner that can: -- be augmented with drones dropped around a system to get full system coverage. -- That has an automatic "rescan every second" function -- That can be tailored so system trash can be line item removed (In addition to telling the scanner to see, or not see, a certain class of ship, I could tell it to not see a "specific", "individual" ship. Say, for example, Sabre named "Fred" is parked at a friendly POS. I could tell the scanner to not see that individual Sabre. But if another Sabre came into system, even if it was named "Fred", I'd see it). -- and maybe some more functions to increase the whiny agony of lazy folks even more.... Edit: One more manditory function: If a cloaked ship is in the Scan area, while it would not show up,you WOULD get a message: "Cloaked ships in scan area" This. and ... -- wrecks and cans visible on the scanner again (and other stuff that was removed for no obvious reason) -- a local chat where you become visible when you talk and invisible again after some time (as it already is with many other chats in the game) for those who just need the attention (sometimes you just have to give Darwin's Law a helping hand) -- My wishlist to CCP: If it's not broken, don't break it. If it's broken, don't **** it up completely.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 06:33:00 - [117] Originally by: nether void What person that want's to pvp (since he's running escort) would just sit next to a miner for long periods of time? In a way it would be like saying 'Hey pirate, if you want to be able to pirate efficiently in low sec, you need to bring a miner'. It hasn¦t occured to you that that Escort is there mainly to shoot down, loot and salvage rat-spawns, PvP is most likely not the only thing he is there for. So again why is a Miner in low-sec without an Escort that deals with rats and scans for enemies? If he can handle rats himself, he will still have to abort mining if he sees Pirates in local chat. Not so if he have Escort (s) to deal with those. And the miner wouldn¦t hang out with pirates in Gate-camps because it is a bit hard to mine from there. ;) No profit at all, unlike Escorts that are with Miners. So yeah, remove local chat indeed. Combo that with buffed Gateguns and both Empire-dwellers and Pirates have gained something. The only clear losers as I can see it are those in Alliance -controlled 0.0 territories. Then again they are a bit too rich for me to share any tears for them. They have had it safe enough.
Dukath Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:17:00 - [118] Remove local, Add passive and active scanning. - passive scan only detects such things like explosions and heavy weapon fire. Passive scan is not detectable. - active scan broadcasts a ping with a certain strength. Depending on the skills (and modules fitted on ships) of the scanner and person in system (again skill and modules) the ping can be detected. - move belts to random locations that need to be scanned down. Result: - carebears who pay attention will detect if someone if actively scanning them down. They might miss a scan but usually it takes multiple scans anyway - gankers actively have to search for targets and will also be vulnerable to ambushes. but gankers will leave less traces around. - fleet combat will be more interesting. No more exploded wrong intel on enemy numbers but only numbers you can get intel for yourself. (ie: 200 in local, you have 50 active so enemy has 150.... wrong: enemy gang might as well be 40 with another 110 being afk, not in gang, even a 3rd side who is also hostile to the others). Due to comparing gang numbers to local too many fleet battles are avoided, so we might just as well remove this possibility PS: I am BoB but this change would greatly favour our enemies in the current war, yet i still think local is an atrocity that should never have been added during beta
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.01.10 07:40:00 - [119] Originally by: Victor Forge I almost absolutly, 99%.... AGREE with Op. /signed x1000 BUT, remove it in 0.0 only. That will actually make 0.0 more dangerous than low-sec, as it should be, even players that are in the space of their own Alliance will get a sence of insecurity. Yeah, i get way more fights (and people that are willing to fight 1v1) in low sec, 0.0 is 80% full of carebears, they dot up for blobs but thats where the skill ends. If CCP wants to nerf speed tanking they better take away local first, because a command ship without a blob to back it up in 0.0 is a metal coffin right now.
Zaerlorth Maelkor	Posted - 2008.01.10 10:26:00 - [120] Originally by: Dukath Remove local, Add passive and active scanning. - passive scan only detects such things like explosions and heavy weapon fire. Passive scan is not detectable. - active scan broadcasts a ping with a certain strength. Depending on the skills (and modules fitted on ships) of the scanner and person in system (again skill and modules) the ping can be detected. - move belts to random locations that need to be scanned down. Result: - carebears who pay attention will detect if someone if actively scanning them down. They might miss a scan but usually it takes multiple scans anyway - gankers actively have to search for targets and will also be vulnerable to ambushes. but gankers will leave less traces around. - fleet combat will be more interesting. No more exploded wrong intel on enemy numbers but only numbers you can get intel for yourself. (ie: 200 in local, you have 50 active so enemy has 150.... wrong: enemy gang might as well be 40 with another 110 being afk, not in gang, even a 3rd side who is also hostile to the others). Due to comparing gang numbers to local too many fleet battles are avoided, so we might just as well remove this possibility These are the best ideas in my opinion. If local is to be removed at all.

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