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Bishop Stewart	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:52:00 - [1] This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject.
Bishop Stewart	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:52:00 - [2] This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:58:00 - [3] Sorry, but it's within game mechanics to declare war on a corporation, regardless of said corporation's experience/age/member count. Quickly joining and leaving an alliance for the sole purpose of invalidating wars is an exploit. This isn't a victory for cyberbullies, it's a victory for reason. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:58:00 - [4] Sorry, but it's within game mechanics to declare war on a corporation, regardless of said corporation's experience/age/member count. Quickly joining and leaving an alliance for the sole purpose of invalidating wars is an exploit. This isn't a victory for cyberbullies, it's a victory for reason. ---------------- Tarminic - 31 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.78.2
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:59:00 - [5] It's a mad world. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 17:59:00 - [6] It's a mad world. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? Wait wait wait... Have you ever even played EVE? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? Wait wait wait... Have you ever even played EVE? _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:11:00 - [9] OP fails hard. If you don't want to engage in wars, stay in the NPC corp. If you don't like this, EVE is not the game you are looking for etc. Obviously there are going to be people who I would describe in a diplomatic fashion as 'somewhat lame' who will go around fighting only opponents far weaker than themselves. This is an inevitable result of the freedom in EVE. If you want a game with less freedom, go back to <game> etc. And, its never griefing. - DesuSigs
ChrisFish Undocumented Features	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:13:00 - [10] Oh sure...let's all just do what YOU wanna do.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. this and this. don't like it? this. an image is worth 1000 words. Crumplecorm's sigs are worth 1000 replies. --- planetary interaction idea!
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. this and this. don't like it? this. an image is worth 1000 words. Crumplecorm's sigs are worth 1000 replies. /end
Haradgrim The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? Wait wait wait... Have you ever even played EVE? QFT If it takes exploiting game mechanics for you to "enjoy" a game then perhaps you should find a different recreational pursuit. As for the change, I agree with it one hundred percent. Wars are specifically in the game so that no one is immune to pvp combat and everyone must be responsible for their corp members actions. If you don't like getting war dec'd than either find a way to not ** people off, be more clandestine with your isk making efforts, or whatever else you need to do to not incur the wrath of those who would war on you.... don't like it? EVE is not the game for you. Ironically; my corp escaped a grief type war (another corp didn't like us making isk in "their space (high sec of course)") when we joined our alliance (which we were already in the process of joining and are still members of). Originally by:** CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Vincenzo Delloro Amarr Lux et Veritas	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:18:00 - [14] I'm tempted to wardec the OP just for the hell of it. /kidding //I couldn't wardec a marmot
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:18:00 - [15] Look i know it sux to be wardeclared by some alt pvp corp who are more experienced at pvp and can easily afford the losses if they have any at all cuz there mains are rich 0.0 industrial carebears, but thats just how it is in eve. Take the involuntary pvp bit away from eve and u end up with WoW in space CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:26:00 - [16] give it up. you want to carebear, stay in an npc corp.. eve is PVP. Welcome! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Well boohoo
Sixtina KL The Shoop Group	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:27:00 - [17] Ooooh, CCP dropped da hammah! Cry moar, emo kids! __________________________________
Kretin JuBa Corp	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:41:00 - [18] You could always join the alliance and stay in it until the war is over, the exploit is joining then leaving the alliance immediately to lose the war-dec. Try joining an alliance and staying in it, nothing has been said saying once the war is over with the alliance that you have to stay in it. Fine, you wont like the fact that you no longer have a carebear get out of war free card, but atleast you would have people willing to fight along side you until it is over.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen.
Haks'he Lirky Dominion Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:43:00 - [20] what game are you playing? Kittie online is thataway ->>
Cailais Amarr VITOC	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen. This. C. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Haks'he Lirky what game are you playing? Kittie online is thataway ->> It's "Hello Kitty Island Adventure", you ***** muggle. EVE RELATED CONTENT**
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. - DesuSigs
Nicho Void Hyper-Nova Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:48:00 - [24] Originally by: SoftRevolution Originally by: Haks'he Lirky what game are you playing? Kittie online is thataway ->> It's "Hello Kitty Island Adventure", you ******* muggle. So much win in one sentence.
yosef kaldhu Genesis Trade And Industry Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:51:00 - [25] Edited by: yosef kaldhu on 10/01/2008 18:54:16 --censored--
Aceoil Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Aceoil on 10/01/2008 18:52:40 http://eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=3_1&page=3 Quote: With the procedural stuff out of the way, there are other issues here as well. An unfortunately large number of people who responded to this issue justified iMuneÆs behavior by talking about how Empire based noobs were being griefed by war decs; helpless carebears were being war decÆd, not because they could provide a good fight but because they could be extorted for protection money. The horror. The horror! No, waità the other thing. The way the game was designed. Yep, CCP designed the game so that there was no ôsafe spaceö, 1.0 means nothing if someone has declared war on you. And the war dec system doesnÆt care how many pilots you have, how many your target has, if thereÆs anything to loot or if they can put up a good fight. Piracy, charging protection money and, hell, even hunting other players because youÆre bored? All of those are part and parcel of playing the game.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2008.01.10 18:59:00 - [27] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 10/01/2008 19:03:17 Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? Quite aside from the usual whining, I think you'll find that eve NPC's are about as bland and boring as they come. Go play Tabula Rasa, it might not have the player driven economy but for pve it is a darn sight more interesting and nice to look at Edit: Also hire mercs. You have to imagine Eve is like Iraq or Afganistan, some parts richer and safer some parts not so. But you need security if you're going to build powerplants and schools and hospitals etc or build any sort of business for that matter Khaldari khanidpublic: RP channel for Kingdom loyalists Recruiting
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:01:00 - [28] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 10/01/2008 19:02:18 I'm not surprised they officially proclaimed you can't do this, it did nastily work around the existing corp warfare rules. I only don't like HOW it was done and no clarification. IE-Is dropping after 24 hrs still "cheating"? What about 48 hrs? We need clarification to a hasty GM response in a bad forum post... The only thing I can't understand is why they would label this "cheating" while not considering it an exploit or "cheating" to shoot someone's drone every 14 minutes to keep the aggro-timer reset. Especially since the person being kept in an aggro'd state doesn't get the timer saying they are...... Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Theo Samaritan Gallente Pheonix Reborn	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:01:00 - [29] Well if we must bring up the tribune... Cough Cough, OP -------------- Templars do not tank Jita so well without a steady supply of Cake.
Daphne Oboe	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:02:00 - [30] I'm thinking the OP is a troll post. Just seems a bit on the obvious side.... Possibly a brand new player; in which case I'd advise not continuing with your subscription - this clearly isn't your kind of game (and there's nothing wrong with that).
Thaylon Sen The Boondock Saints	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:10:00 - [31] Cant stand the heat? Get out of the kitchen.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.10 19:30:00 - [32] It's not bullying if it's a business you do for profit. Thread fail. Rifters!
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.10 20:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Bishop Stewart Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. If they were so inexperienced in PvP, why did they refuse to join up with players who could protect them instead of starting yet another corp without clear purpose or a clear approach on how to achieve it in a totally hostile environment that did not need them? Newbies should not start corps. They should join an existing one until they are strong enough or influetial enough to defend their own corp from any attempt at bullying.
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:03:00 - [34] Edited by: JamnOne on 10/01/2008 21:04:04 Ok, I found the story by CCP Wrangler talking about this and copied part of it "alliance hopping to avoid wars is not allowed reported by CCP Wrangler \| 2008.01.10 16:32:33 \| NEW Presently, there is a loophole that some corporations are using to avoid wars that have been declared on them. As soon as a war has been declared on the corporation, they join an alliance and, once admitted, they immediately leave the alliance again. The result is that they are only involved in an active war for 24 hours and not a week as should be the case according to normal war game-play mechanics. Bogus alliances have even been created for the sole purpose of giving corps a way out of wars. This is an unintended game mechanic and it will be fixed as soon as possible." Now as you notice the part in bold he says it is an unintended game mechanic. This is not "Cyberbullying" people getting their way. This is simply the rules being enforced. Now, my recommendation - join an alliance. Make an agreement with this alliance that you will build ships for them at a discounted price and sell mineral & ore at a discounted price, in return they provide protection. If you are going to join an alliance to cover your wardec you have to compensate them a little bit. And as the Alliance Grows by those trying to avoid pvp so does the corps who only do pvp that are part of the alliance. just my 2 iskies...be aware though, if you are a macro trying to avoid a battle, the alliance may not accept you or may only accept just to totally destroy you. ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. CCP are very explicit and up front about one major - I would say core aspect of EvE: non-consensual PvP. That means that you can, despite your motivations and wishes, find yourself in a situations where you can be forced to fight. It's as much a part of the game as being tackled is a part of football. If you don't like being tackled, then candidly, you're playing the wrong game. I'd go so far as to say not only is non-consensual PvP possible, not only is it likely, I would say that it is by far the most frequent kind of PvP in EvE. Wardecs are a mechanism whereby NON-CONSENSUAL PvP can occur in hi-sec space. That's the ONLY reason for a war-dec. If CCP merely wanted to allow consensual PvP, then the gang mechanism or can aggro mechanism provide for that very well. Evading a wardec by recycling your alliance perfectly fits the definition of an exploit: "An unintended use of game mechanics to gain advantage". CCP never intended for this to be possible, and now that iMune have brought the situation to a head, they have closed the loophole. Now your options are: Man up and fight Pay up and make peace Join an alliance that actually wants you, not just your war-dec Quit. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
LifeLines m3 Corp Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:06:00 - [36] Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? none. or only you. no wait. not even you. yeah. you fail at ranting id say 3/10.
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Crumplecorn OP fails hard. If you don't want to engage in wars, stay in the NPC corp. If you don't like this, EVE is not the game you are looking for etc. Obviously there are going to be people who I would describe in a diplomatic fashion as 'somewhat lame' who will go around fighting only opponents far weaker than themselves. This is an inevitable result of the freedom in EVE. If you want a game with less freedom, go back to <game> etc. And, its never griefing. ur sigs = WIN!!!!11!11
Saladin Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:10:00 - [38] EvE is the sort of game that attracts people with bloodlust or some hidden desire to bully others. I understand how you feel, but CCP is not likely to change this any time soon. So its clear to me from your post that you don't have much pvp experience. Thats not a big problem. You guys have obviously spent a lot of time resource gathering, so maybe just agree to their demands and pay them what they want - However if you guys want to grow a backbone, now is a good time as any. If you guys choose to make a stand, you will find plenty in the EvE community willing to offer advice and assistance. Don't let your gaming experience be held hostage, and definitely don't let the non-constructive replies in this thread run you out of the game.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:10:00 - [39] The things you own end up owning you.
Malcanis 5 finger discounteers	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen. Istvaan's post strikes crybaby perfectly for wrecking damage to his ego. You lose lock as Bishop Stewart's account begins to unsubscribe. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Heroine Bambi	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:19:00 - [41] Not surprised this happened, and honestly, whatever. War is fine the way it is imo. If a corp gets decced, they can still join some hardcore PvP Alliance and those guys get a free war to fight. You simply can't leave that Alliance for the remainder of the war.
F90OEX	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:23:00 - [42] F'ing whiners
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Grimpak this and this. don't like it? this. an image is worth 1000 words. Crumplecorm's sigs are worth 1000 replies. Actually I think that this one is far more appropreate, followed closely by this one. Now if only we can get a little of this.
Lucy Light	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:27:00 - [44] lol just like life hey? how many people are calling it quits because other better prepared people get their jobs? eve is open warfare. it always was.. accept the risks or dont play eve. I like to eat one nutella sandwich for breakfast
Troye Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:31:00 - [45] Cyberbullies? awww Originally by: GM Nova What the hell???
Vikarion Caldari United Heavens	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? ...stuff... Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. I think I lost brain cells reading this. I mean, I'm a carebear, and I can fully understand the whole war mechanic without whining. To come play a game where PvP is supposedly a central feature of the game and then complain about that feature... erm, to be diplomatic about it...it's less than a good idea. I use CrumpleCorn(tm) Sigs, because they (and he) are awesome!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:41:00 - [47] lol @ OP. If you want to stay wardec free, cozy and safe under Concords warm feathers do as I do and run your corp from the npc corps. Pen and paper are a damn fine substitute for the in game corp interface mate. Only thing I can't do is run a war or drop pos/outpost but wtf do I need to do that for anyways? Originally by: Richard Phallus Come live with the common idiot, it's more fun down here. I did and got banned.
Gloria Stitz	Posted - 2008.01.10 21:55:00 - [48] This thread is only missing the guy with the spoon fixation ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:01:00 - [49] So i wardec newish corps, I have also lost ships to them. (ok i know i fail) But seriously, the reason why we play eve is to shoot at other people. Notice the two Ms in MMO, that means Massivly Multiplayer. Not 'my own little world that i sometimes let people play in but you cant hurt me because your butterfly cannon does no damage'. For that i suggest you find a MOLWTISLPPIBYCHMBYBCDND- ORPG. and the OP should go to wow. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Khatred Fluffy Mungoose Guinea Pigs	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:08:00 - [50] While I can't say I agree with the OP, the decision is bs. Another decision made by the ear and probably influenced by the forums. When people were dodging my wars (not with this character) by leaving corporation and reforming, it was ok (altough it should have not been). Now war dodging it's again not ok. No spine to stand up to one decision, once and for all?
Ivan Hablovi Minmatar Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:11:00 - [51] I guess, new players who want fast and easy income, with none risk, SHOULD NOT LEAVE NOOB CORP. People who dont want to PEWPEW, go back to NOOBCORP, there they are safe from harassing "cyberbullies". Simple as that. Stop whining.
Trof Gallente Griffin Inc. Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:15:00 - [52] If you have not read this here is a link that has some helpfull advice/tatics for dealing with issue. http://evefiles.mysterious-mysteries.com/eve-online_war_target_guide.html Free your Mind! Acknowledge and Move On!
Snowcrash Winterheart2 Gallente Concordia Discors	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn If you don't want to engage in wars, stay in the NPC corp. Shall I queue up a "NPC corp *****ing thread" or shall you? ----- Four paws... four sets of claws.
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:20:00 - [54] This change is like 3 years late. Also, what Istvaan said. ---
Windryder New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:24:00 - [55] Okay so if us Carebears dodge a wardec by Alliance Hopping is an EXPLOIT but when Hi-Sec Grief-Dec'ers engage us and then CORPORATION HOP to avoid retaliation it is NOT AN EXPLOIT? Oh FFS CCP either get some consistency or just GET RID OF CONCORD already! Its not like us carebears can "Peacedec" someone to stop them blowing people up. Heres my Petition from October on this very subject: 5-Oct-2007 06:28 Is it considered an exploit to engage a high-sec war-target (in high-sec), then dock and immediately move yourself to a neutral corporation to avoid further engagements? Or is such a use of the game mechanics considered fair play? Windryder 5-Oct-2007 06:29 HI, This is not considered an exploit. Best regards, GM Tacgnol EvE Online Customer Service Support
Zian Tzu	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:25:00 - [56] or buy X3, no seriously, and before you say it, I do believe X3 is going MP
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:33:00 - [57] Originally by: Crumplecorn OP fails hard. If you don't want to engage in wars, stay in the NPC corp. If you don't like this, EVE is not the game you are looking for etc. Obviously there are going to be people who I would describe in a diplomatic fashion as 'somewhat lame' who will go around fighting only opponents far weaker than themselves. This is an inevitable result of the freedom in EVE. If you want a game with less freedom, go back to <game> etc. And, its never griefing. And if too many players stay in NPC corporations now, the whiney griefers will whine again until CCP nerfs NPC corps... Disclaimer: I do not speak for the fanbois.
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:35:00 - [58] dont wanna get war dec'ed ? ----------> NPC corp.
Davlin Lotze Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:51:00 - [59] Couldn't have happened sooner. Nice work CCP. Burn in hell carebears!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 22:51:00 - [60] Originally by: Lazuran And if too many players stay in NPC corporations now, the whiney griefers will whine again until CCP nerfs NPC corps... But CCP will never do it, as the explicit purpose of NPC corps is to let people avoid wardecs. Ans so, carebears win, legitimate PvPers win, and true griefers lose. Great success. Except for the whiners who already unsubbed. But there's no use crying over every mistake. People keep on joining so the game must be great. NPC corpers can hide, and wardecs are fine, for the people who are still subscribed. And believe me I am still subscribed. And when the whine ends I'll be still subscribed. Still subscribed. Still subscribed. Also, I've never seen as many links to my sigs in one thread as there are in this one. - DesuSigs
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:04:00 - [61] Quote: And if too many players stay in NPC corporations now, the whiney griefers will whine again until CCP nerfs NPC corps... That idea has been proposed and shot down in flames. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Tzar'rim Minmatar Reckless Corsairs	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:09:00 - [62] Could you please go over to the BF2142 forums and start a rant on how there is no honor in shooting someone in the back or when he's down?
Terianna Eri Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Crumplecorn Except for the whiners who already unsubbed. But there's no use crying over every mistake. People keep on joining so the game must be great. NPC corpers can hide, and wardecs are fine, for the people who are still subscribed. And believe me I am still subscribed. And when the whine ends I'll be still subscribed. Still subscribed. Still subscribed. Marry me? __________________________________
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Crumplecorn Except for the whiners who already unsubbed. But there's no use crying over every mistake. People keep on joining so the game must be great. NPC corpers can hide, and wardecs are fine, for the people who are still subscribed. And believe me I am still subscribed. And when the whine ends I'll be still subscribed. Still subscribed. Still subscribed. Marry me? /me sings the song with new lyrics. ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Xanthese	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:45:00 - [65] Edited by: Xanthese on 10/01/2008 23:49:45 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen. so - and I hate WoW - why does Wow get 100's of times more players, if not 1000's joinining every day : it's because you can learn the game without being griefed until you are a decent level - some poor carebear loses his ship 3 times on his trial period isn't going to stay - even though he could have grown to be awesome
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:46:00 - [66] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 10/01/2008 23:46:17 Originally by: Lithalnas Originally by: Terianna Eri Marry me? /me sings the song with new lyrics. Full Version \o/ - DesuSigs
ry ry StateCorp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.01.10 23:50:00 - [67] Edited by: ry ry on 10/01/2008 23:50:35 'cyberbullies'? don't be such a wimp. the whole point of eve is to crush your enemies, be that on the stock market, in empire war, or the 0.0 POS game. when you go mining, then sell your minerals for 0.01 isk less than the previous buy order what are you doing if not pitting yourself against another player? if you jsut want to fly around in a spaceship and chat to your mates a copy of X3 and MSN would probably be more to your liking. *again.
Lithalnas Amarr Headcrabs	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:20:00 - [68] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 10/01/2008 23:46:17 Originally by: Lithalnas Originally by: Terianna Eri Marry me? /me sings the song with new lyrics. Full Version \o/ Anyway this cheese is great! It goes so well with your whine! change to Anyway this bree is great! It goes so well with your whine! but other than that i would give you a GSC or Giant Secured Companion Cube ------------- fixed for greater eve content
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 10/01/2008 23:46:17 Originally by: Lithalnas Originally by: Terianna Eri Marry me? /me sings the song with new lyrics. Full Version \o/ and so crumplecorm has become the King of eve-O forums for ever and ever. --- planetary interaction idea!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:26:00 - [70] Only when it's released as MP3 1\|2\|3\|4\|5.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:29:00 - [71] I think it is a change for the better. And I would like to remind the OP that he can always restart and join STI. We are a friendly bunch. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Orgos Khenn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.11 00:40:00 - [72] Lesson: Never appeal to EVE players to allow people to engage in non-PVP when they see fit. Result: 95% of posts are flames, generating further hostility toward "carebears". Conclusion: Ignore idiots, keep playing.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:18:00 - [73] Haha. "cyberbullies" You fail video games. Quit eve now. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
2annoing	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:24:00 - [74] Please will one of these cyberbullies please declare war on me.. I could do with the laugh tbh. This is an alt --- like you give a funk?
Rellik B00n Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:57:00 - [75] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? .....stufff... Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. posting in an imune alt thread. also hahahahahaha. remix:never fades 07(2)
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.01.11 01:59:00 - [76] I guess you'll have to be like the piece of **** farmers that disband corps the instant they are wardecced.
Vikarion Caldari United Heavens	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:02:00 - [77] Cyber-Bullies. That would be a great name for a rock band. I use CrumpleCorn(tm) Sigs, because they (and he) are awesome!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Akita T Only when it's released as MP3 Linkage Quick and nasty, I will improve it if and when I am offically made king of the forums. - DesuSigs
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:31:00 - [79] Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Can I have your stuff? Oh wait, you're a carebear newb. You don't have any stuff. Never mind. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Grim Starwind hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.11 02:42:00 - [80] He sounds like france in 1939 =)
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:02:00 - [81] stop whining and grow some balls. ---
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:35:00 - [82] Originally by: Xanthese Edited by: Xanthese on 10/01/2008 23:49:45 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen. so - and I hate WoW - why does Wow get 100's of times more players, if not 1000's joinining every day : it's because you can learn the game without being griefed until you are a decent level - some poor carebear loses his ship 3 times on his trial period isn't going to stay - even though he could have grown to be awesome Can baiting newbies is considered griefing by ccp, other than that, how does a newbie lose ships to pvp? If he goes into lowsec, well thats like a lvl 5 newbie in wow trying to run lvl 30 instance in a contested zone. Also, in wow, a lvl 60 can kill like 20 lvl 25 ppl solo. I'd like to see a battleship solo 25 frigs.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.11 03:42:00 - [83] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Xanthese Edited by: Xanthese on 10/01/2008 23:49:45 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Bishop Stewart How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? If there's one thing Eve has proved time and time again, it's that for every weepy carebear that quits after being ganked, three badass griefers step up to take his place. Quit if you want to, but rest assured you will not be missed as long as this game's population continues to grow. Why not use your masterful command of that rich Eve economy to hire some mercenaries to defend you? Recirculate some of your carebear earnings into that economy instead of sitting on your hoard like a frightened hen. so - and I hate WoW - why does Wow get 100's of times more players, if not 1000's joinining every day : it's because you can learn the game without being griefed until you are a decent level - some poor carebear loses his ship 3 times on his trial period isn't going to stay - even though he could have grown to be awesome Can baiting newbies is considered griefing by ccp, other than that, how does a newbie lose ships to pvp? If he goes into lowsec, well thats like a lvl 5 newbie in wow trying to run lvl 30 instance in a contested zone. Also, in wow, a lvl 60 can kill like 20 lvl 25 ppl solo. I'd like to see a battleship solo 25 frigs. disco-poc! the lag of exploding 25 frigates with smarties would be phenomenal tho --- planetary interaction idea!
Morberi Scrutari The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:15:00 - [84] There are plenty of legal game mechanics to fight this "Cyberbullying" try one of them.
Jacob Etienne Caldari Contempt.	Posted - 2008.01.11 04:21:00 - [85] Originally by: Bishop Stewart cyberbullies I lol'd so hard. Stop crying, srsly.
I'm RickJames	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:17:00 - [86] Why not have an alt character with CEO skills create a character for a new corp in the alliance. Then corp members and leave the war declared corp, and join the other corp in the alliance. Then, no corp will be jumping alliances.
ThaDollaGenerale Questionable Intentions	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:18:00 - [87] Originally by: Bishop Stewart First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. AHAHA Really? Stay in an NPC corp, or take the risks and rewards of a player corp. What's your main character's name so I can wardec the corp?
Krows Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.11 05:28:00 - [88] Obvious troll is obvious.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:11:00 - [89] Originally by: Xanthese so - and I hate WoW - why does Wow get 100's of times more players, if not 1000's joinining every day : it's because you can learn the game without being griefed until you are a decent level - some poor carebear loses his ship 3 times on his trial period isn't going to stay - even though he could have grown to be awesome But this is what's so great about Eve. It weeds out the scrubs and caters only to hardcore players, most of whom were probably bored to death by other MMOs. WoW and DAoC and FFXI and AO and so many more, are all carebear games through and through. Their PvP is superficial and trivial. Even DAoC's RvR pales compared to 0.0 warfare, and besides all the RvR stats get reset as soon as one side gains too much. Don't get me started on WoW's capture the flag. Eve is the alternative. Like all other alternatives: music, movies, art, etc, it may not be appreciated by the average person, but that's not a problem. If CCP wanted to sell out for more customers (certain recent changes aside), they'd have designed the game differently.
Kahega Amielden	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:24:00 - [90] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/01/2008 06:29:30 Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/01/2008 06:27:58 Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/01/2008 06:26:59 Quote: so - and I hate WoW - why does Wow get 100's of times more players, if not 1000's joinining every day : it's because you can learn the game without being griefed until you are a decent level - some poor carebear loses his ship 3 times on his trial period isn't going to stay - even though he could have grown to be awesome And here's your problem. You think that surviving in EVE is about have teh wtflolpewn 1337 gear and skills. It's not. It's about knowing how to keep yourself alive and learning the game. I am a new player, less than a month old. Hell, if you count that 14 of those days were on a trial account I had TWO YEARS AGO, I'm about 15 or so days old as far as EVE experience. Today I went into lowsec to do some ratting. TWICE I was stalked and chased by two very experienced pirates who have been playing for FAR longer than I have and have a lot more skills than I have. I did not die once. Why? Because I learned the mechanics of the game, I learned how to stay alive, and more importantly I grew to accept that EVE is not a game that I will always win at. The above example wont always work for me, though. It keeps me alive much of the time, but I know there is a pirate out there who will kick the ** out of me and pod me. Hell, it already happened-Last week I was ratting in lowsec not paying attention to local or to my overview, and I got killed. Not only did I lose a lot of my money, I lost millions of ISK worth of implants (which is very significant to a player like me). I didn't get ed. I didn't convo the guy and tell him what an evil griefer he is. I moved on, realized "**, I need to pay more attention and take more precaution". EVE is as exhilarating and fun as it is because, sometimes, you aren't going to win. In EVE, there is always a loser, and sometimes that loser will be you. Deal with it, it's part of EVE's core game design. Some players (namely you) don't like that game design. Some players aren't going to like the harsh nature of EVE. That's too bad. Find another game. You're not going to like every game you play. There are already things in game to stop new players from being horribly abused before they learn the game. They are Hisec Space and NPC Corporations. Use them, love them. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Lin Lo	Posted - 2008.01.11 06:30:00 - [91] Find out how much the wardec corp asks and advertise for any mercs that would like to take up the amount offered to slap the ganking corp instead. That is a way to deal with the problem in-game without resorting to mechanic bugs to get around it.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:00:00 - [92] Vulnerable 'carebear' corps should join with a powerful Empire-based alliance that is prepared to defend them. You could also set up an alternate area of operations and at the first sign of war move away. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
NickSuccorso Arcana Imperii Ltd. Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:13:00 - [93] Hiring mercenaries would certainly solve your problem, but wouldn't it be more rewarding to grab some rifters and kestrels or some cruisers to go out and defend yourself? I mean, you'd probably get clobbered a few times, but then you kill one or two of them, and start getting some knowledge on how to do it. You start talking to some people and reading threads on forums and then you manage to kill a battleship of theirs. Now you're still losing frigates and cruisers like crazy, but they're starting to lose a bs here or there, or maybe even a hac or recon. Suddenly the cyberbully villians start smacking you out of anger a bit, but one of their top guys has extended the olive branch and a day or two later the dec drops. Now you can continue on with your bearing fun, and you've got some pvp buddies that can help with local defence or training. Fast forward to 7 months later and you guys have taken control of a nice little spot in low sec and the pirates don't really bother you too much because you're self sufficient and defend yourself pretty well. Your bears have never made so much isk between high sec. trade routes (or whatever people do there) and low sec mining (do people do that?) and missions and your military wing has a pretty good killboard ratio. Soon it'll be time to take a serious look at 0.0, either as a renter or joining another young crew that wants a taste. A few months after that Sov. 1 drops on your first captured system, and it feels good. Or you can hang out in high sec. hiring mercenaries forever and ever because you just don't want to be bothered (and no problem with that. It's ok to not have grand dreams and just be chilled out and casual. Have your fun!). Or you can immediately run to the forums sobbing because some cyberbully (hee hee)won't leave you alone. **** that noise. Besides, if you try to pvp them, without having a tonne of expectations of glory, you might start to like it. I'll let you in on another little tip: The gap in player skill between total newb and high sec. griefer is generally not as large as people (usually newbs who just don't know the game yet) think it is. Most of them are in high sec. griefing new guys for a reason. They aren't very good. Anywho, good luck with whatever you decide. Stop with the self defeatist garbage because it gives me severe gas.
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:33:00 - [94] Quote: Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. The whole point of war deccing someone is so you can shoot them in High Sec, thus is you let concord shoot you, you will in the end have invalidated the whole war mechanism. Now, when you have gained some more expirience about eve, and your corp have extended industrially and got another corp putting up to much competition, you have gotten scammed and want revenge, your 0.0/low-sec operation are being harrassed by pirates basing out of high sec, etc, you would appreciate a mechanism to get them, woudln't you? If you want a safe zone, go to 0.0, it is about as safe as it gets, because everyone that is not blue is a potential hostile, and you see them coming from miles away. Besides, you can easily earn 100 million a day of ratting.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:35:00 - [95] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. Read about this game before you start playing then. You know there is something called declaring war between player corps. If you choose to ignore this and when times of war knocks at your door you fail. Then you should either have prepared or just stayed in your npc corp. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:38:00 - [96] We had that problem once, just started and we got a war deced so we said fine. We loaded up and caused more damage to them than they did to us. In a player corp you got two options when war deced, either kick their butt yourself or hire mercs to do it for you. The first option is the most gratifying btw. "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Vladimir Ilych Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.01.11 08:52:00 - [97] I have now read this entire thread. Mostly as the many replies have been vastly amusing. I did have a WTH moment when reading the OP but as other people have pointed out this is probably a troll post. A very well done troll though. pats head
LukeIamYourMother Hedion University	Posted - 2008.01.11 09:17:00 - [98] As others pointed out above.. the wardec option is intentional. Finding ways to get away from wardecs without spending money or fighting is a way of escaping what's intended with EVE. There's no safe space in EVE and it never will be. They might be lame, but if you are not pvpers you are likely to earn more money than they do. Your option is to hire mercs, disband, join new corps, not undock, etc. EVE is a dirty place and fighting fair was never the intention when designining it. Think you'll have to accept that or EVE is simply nothing for you. Harsh, but true.
Shismo	Posted - 2008.01.11 09:56:00 - [99] I dont care about this, because im just a newbie corp alt with 900k skillpoints and has already waited the 10 hours to be recycled. But any of you people who whine about this 'exploit' before it became an 'exploit' and was just another 'thing you can do in this game', cant say a single thing to anyone who whines about being war deced in a weak newbie corp. As we know, in eve, there are no exploits. If you can do it, its okay. If CCP fixes it (or announces they are going to try to fix it). Then it becomes no longer a part of the game. So the big thing to take away from this whole incident, is that the evil pirates and general gankers are just as much a gigantic crybaby when their toys get taken away as anyone else. (and also that they are all GM alts! )
Jesum Amarr Warmongers	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:23:00 - [100] Exploiting the game should never be allowed.
Windryder New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:44:00 - [101] Mercenaries? What a laugh. I can't find any willing to take on the defense of a "carebear" corp, no matter how bad-ass they think they are. We had 4 war decs in 2007, the first starting just 2 weeks after our alliance was formed. Only 1 of those war decs was from somebody we had done wrong to - ironically we got war-decced by the Coalition of Carebear Killers for NOT podding one of their pilots in low-sec. The others were corps just picking a fight for the hell of it. One of those corps had a GREAT game mechanic - they would sit in a neutral corp, spot a war target, join the warring corp, engage, flee and then immediately leave and join a different neutral corp. As I have pointed out on page 2, thats not an exploit, but doing the VERY SAME THING as a corp IS an exploit? I don't mind if it is an exploit but I would like some consistency between the scales. There's a comment above about going to 0.0 where it is safer. Actually thats true. Your playing style has to change dramatically but if you are willing to stop doing most of the things you enjoy in high-sec then you can avoid the war. Everyone (yes you, the super-genius) is missing the real point - and that is that ALL the tools for waging PVP warfare are in the hands of the COMBAT PILOTS and there are NONE in the hands of the Industrials. Someone once berated me for not keeping-up on the forums. After wading through 4 pages of people abusing someone that doesn't want to be forced into PVP Combat (separate from PVP Industry/Mining/Scamming/Etc) I am now reminded of why I read the forums so rarely. Forum Warriors, I salute you. You win the forums. I also note that in the previous 2 pages no-one dared touch my original page 2 comment. And before any flames start - yes I know I should leave the game and play WoW because industrial carebears leech the lifeblood from the game and give nothing in return - I'll take that as a given so long as you provide intelligent on-topic discussion.
KaosTheory	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:47:00 - [102] Originally by: Tarminic Sorry, but it's within game mechanics to declare war on a corporation, regardless of said corporation's experience/age/member count. Quickly joining and leaving an alliance for the sole purpose of invalidating wars is an exploit. This isn't a victory for cyberbullies, it's a victory for reason. War Dec'ing an Industrial Corp can be said the same.
Mik kyo D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:49:00 - [103] See you in wow
Holocost	Posted - 2008.01.11 11:57:00 - [104] I've created this alt just to make a corp and "cyberbully" this guy!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Windryder Mercenaries? What a laugh. I can't find any willing to take on the defense of a "carebear" corp, no matter how bad-ass they think they are. contact Viqer Fell or TheMantisCH. We are happy to solve the problems of any carebear corp that got wardecced --- planetary interaction idea!
Coloumbia	Posted - 2008.01.11 12:53:00 - [106] It all breaks down into the criminal way of space life, it sucks, i hate it, but then again, if this game was easy, i wouldn't play...
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:38:00 - [107] Originally by: Jowen Datloran I think it is a change for the better. And I would like to remind the OP that he can always restart and join STI. We are a friendly bunch. Or he could join RMS and actually learn how to PvP (lots of pirate alts in RMS). Just sign up the next time someone mentions the word RifterDeath.
Kamikazi TWO	Posted - 2008.01.11 13:57:00 - [108] Could someone explain how this is any different from the corps that used to join/leave the Privateers in order to get fights when they wanted them and avoid them when they didn't ? At the time this was deemed not to be an exploit as you could still wardec them after they left the alliance. So again how is this different ? I suppose you could join the alliance and then get your CEO and their CEO to have an arguement and kick you out. I can't see CCP forcing you back in the alliance when they don't want you in there.
heheheh Singularity. Talon Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:01:00 - [109] Edited by: heheheh on 11/01/2008 14:02:48 im still laughing at the word cyberbullies lol seriously its people like the OP that make it worth it. a victim for life haha
Zaskarr Amarr Falling Stars Squadron	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:03:00 - [110] Edited by: Zaskarr on 11/01/2008 14:02:58 Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. ..rabble, rabble, rabble facepalm.jpg __________________ How do I shot web?
DJ P	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:14:00 - [111] Edited by: DJ P on 11/01/2008 14:18:54 I will say only good job CCP. Bring back EVE in it's true roots. Now you are on the right way. Amen to the people with common sense who support CCP. Who ever want's to play Hello Kitty Online, that's the way --->>>
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:32:00 - [112] EVE does not have consensual PVP, period. If someone wants to kill you, they can do it anywhere, any time, under any circumstances. If you don't want to die the only choice you have is to stay docked. _______________________________ Complex Fullerene Shards; why God? :\|
Kale Kold Caldari V i r u s	Posted - 2008.01.11 14:51:00 - [113] Edited by: Kale Kold on 11/01/2008 14:52:02 Originally by: Bishop Stewart So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Yay!!! Piracy is a legit profession you know.
Ga'len Wandering Druid of Tranquility	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:05:00 - [114] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Yep, you can't exploit this anymore, you are going to have to return to the "Disband and make a new corp" tactic.
Ga'len Wandering Druid of Tranquility	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:07:00 - [115] Edited by: Ga''len on 11/01/2008 17:11:53 Originally by: Windryder Mercenaries? What a laugh. I can't find any willing to take on the defense of a "carebear" corp, no matter how bad-ass they think they are. Windryder, I guess you forgot how your alliance hired Serenity Prime, had them join your alliance and fight your battles with The Really Awesome Players and then leave your alliance. Keep your facts straight man.
gordon cain Minmatar x13 When Fat Kids Attack	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:32:00 - [116] to CCP: Why not just remove wars in empire. Would make alot of people happy. gordon cain Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
The Herrick Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.11 17:40:00 - [117] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Akita T Only when it's released as MP3 Linkage Quick and nasty, I will improve it if and when I am offically made king of the forums. gets nekkid Okay you can have me.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:49:00 - [118] Originally by: gordon cain to CCP: Why not just remove wars in empire. Would make alot of people happy. gordon cain to ccp: Why not boost amarr? Would make alot of people happy. Both wont happen. --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.11 18:49:00 - [119] its bad because a game exploit is no longer allowed Trashed sig, Shark was here
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Racketeers Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.11 20:01:00 - [120] I miss the old war dec system and the old Privateers. Not enough crying concerning high sec wars. --------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot
Darth Nerf	Posted - 2008.01.11 20:50:00 - [121] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Gamesguy Can baiting newbies is considered griefing by ccp, other than that, how does a newbie lose ships to pvp? If he goes into lowsec, well thats like a lvl 5 newbie in wow trying to run lvl 30 instance in a contested zone. Also, in wow, a lvl 60 can kill like 20 lvl 25 ppl solo. I'd like to see a battleship solo 25 frigs. disco-poc! the lag of exploding 25 frigates with smarties would be phenomenal tho Have a neutral alt in a shuttle fly along with (not in) the gang. Watch smartbombing BS suffer.
Zian Tzu	Posted - 2008.01.11 22:33:00 - [122] There is no doubt piracy and PVP are built into Eve with full intent of CCP. If you run an alt through the Minmatarr warrior caste missions there is even a scripted fork in the tutorial missions which allows you to become a professional pirate if you want. PVP is not griefing, its a different career and mindset from mining and manufacture. You have to try it yourself and see how it is. People dont do PVP and piracy etc just to upset carebears, they do it because it is entertaining. Suggesting that wardeccing carebear and noob corps is some kind of bullying is true, but bullying is built into Eve as a smart PVPer will only get into fights they can win. Escape and refuge is also built into Eve, but escape means sacrifice and humiliation. Running an indy corp is not a right, its a risk. Noone can claim it is imba because balance is ultimately available to anyone because any alt can fly any ship in Eve, (unlike Jumpgate), and it is just a matter of overcoming a skills handicap. To play the game you have to take in the big picture, find your place in the ecosystem. Since industrials and miners make wealth and equipment then they are gathering power to themselves. Why should that go uncontested? In real life mining has never been safe and industry has always been competitive often political and occasionally criminal. So to just sit and mine or make money transporting & manufacturing and expect noone to interrupt looking for a slice of pie is simply not playing the game.
Alowishus Pastry Coalition Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.01.11 23:01:00 - [123] I am certified cyberbully. I just get all hot and bothered knowing that there are people that, when someone kills them in the game, they don't simply shrug and chug some beer. These are, in fact, my favorite people to kill. You'd think I'd enjoy killing people who put up a good fight, and drop nice loot, and will be back in twenty minutes to teach me a lesson- and I do- but I much prefer killing people who are totally inept and who'll eve-mail me to tell me I should die of cancer and that my family should burn (see my bio in game for this gem) than someone who will react like an adult. I find people who don't throw temper tantrums at the first sign of discomfort to be quite boring, frankly. Is the problem that somebody cyberbullies you or that there is a part of your psyche that allows you to feel that you've been cyberbullied? Cyberbullies do not exist in Eve, what you are referring to as cyberbullying is one of many facets of the game intended for by CCP and presented to you before you pay a single cent. In essence, if you thought this 'cyberbullying' was so terrible, you had the choice of avoiding it altogether by not playing Eve. As someone else said, if you don't ever want to be tackled don't play (American) football. Even the kicker gets tackled on some days, and sometimes he gets to tackle someone too! /makes fart noise
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2008.01.12 07:14:00 - [124] Originally by: Alowishus I just get all hot and bothered knowing that there are people that, when someone kills them in the game, they don't simply shrug and chug some beer. I see an exciting new Eve drinking game here. I'm gonna have to think how best to use this. Cheap ships will be a must, as performance will no doubt go down as the night progresses. Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.12 08:22:00 - [125] Crumplecorn has as far as I am concerned just won eve forums. Awesome stuff man, outstanding... /me sings; "except the ones who unsubbed....." Love it. ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.01.12 08:26:00 - [126] Remember the ruling is that you cannot join an alliance and immediately leave it from the way the announcement reads. So you can still join an alliance for protection, you just can't immediately leave the alliance. It's kinda vague on how long you have to wait before you leave the alliance though. I think rather than the current system you should be able to bribe concord into declaring the war null and void. Thus giving some power back while providing another way to remove isk from the game.
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 08:45:00 - [127] Originally by: Malcanis Now your options are: Man up and fight Pay up and make peace Join an alliance that actually wants you, not just your war-dec Quit. Nah, I like the 5th option: Move everyone out of your corp to another corp or NPC corp. Leave a placeholder CEO and 4 or 5 alts. Leave the alts online constantly in large-population systems to attract bully gangs. Have them cloaked so the war target can't confirm they're station hugging, and have to spend time looking for them. Check your alts every couple of hours -- if there's war targets in system, smack relentlessly. Try to bait them into countersmacking or saying something over the line -- then have every person you know petition them mercilessly (the Ginger Magician Removal Tactic). Undock an alt in a Reaper a couple of times a day. After the wardec is over, come out to CAOD or General and mock them relentlessly for their mighty war victory of killing 6 rookie ships. In short -- blueball, mock, defame, taunt, and let the other 99% of your corp go about their business. The aggressors won't be back. Especially if you can get an account or two of theirs banned for losing their cool. Repeat as necessary, but make sure you never step over the line -- make them do it. Griefer sissies and their highsec pirate homies always have loose cannons, you can pick off a couple of hotheads in every campaign. Torment them asymmetricaly, as they may be able to win the battle of pew, but you can win the battle of sass. If all else fails, dock up and take the week off. After all, you need to train Racial Battleship V at some point anyways... -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Visse Krenal	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:15:00 - [128] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Undock an alt in a Reaper a couple of times a day. After the wardec is over, come out to CAOD or General and mock them relentlessly for their mighty war victory of killing 6 rookie ships. Some would take pride in the fact that a campaign on their KB consisted of nothing but rookie ship kills. It would be EPIC!
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:34:00 - [129] Originally by: Visse Krenal Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Undock an alt in a Reaper a couple of times a day. After the wardec is over, come out to CAOD or General and mock them relentlessly for their mighty war victory of killing 6 rookie ships. Some would take pride in the fact that a campaign on their KB consisted of nothing but rookie ship kills. It would be EPIC! We call those people, "Racketeers". -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Guilliman R Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:40:00 - [130] Edited by: Guilliman R on 12/01/2008 10:40:20 I call them a waist of genes. Inbred idiots, the lot of the kill board *****s. ---sig---
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:43:00 - [131] I love it when the PvP-impaired, self-proclaimed "pirates" up in 0.1+ get griefed by some clever carebears and they all get all angry because the carebears outsmarted them and now they can't kill them and CCP FIX THINGS ARGH MY K/D RATIO IS SUFFERING It just goes to show that for all the claims of "POS wars are boring!" and similar rationalizations for why 0.0 sucks, people ultimately stay out because they lack the skill to cut it out here, and we get it explained in painful detail every time the carebears manage to hide. It's a good thing CCP still feels enough of a smidge of sympathy for you guys to throw you a bone once in a while, I guess. --------- ~THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS ICORION~
AlleyKat Gallente White-Noise	Posted - 2008.01.12 10:49:00 - [132] Bullies generally do win, and if you can't beat them - join them, or pay someone else to beat them. +EVE-ONLINE VIDEO TUTORIALS+
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:03:00 - [133] Basic Game knowledge falls on the OP like a ton of bricks. _
Whineroy	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:06:00 - [134] Originally by: AlleyKat Bullies generally do win, and if you can't beat them - join them, or pay someone else to beat them. Or simply ignore them, like by using tips suggested earlier... Beneath their wannabe-tough-guy exterior, bullies are just kids who are dying for attention, any kind of attention. Deprive them of that attention and watch them show their true nature when they start throwing endless childish temper tantrums :)
Baxalusx GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:09:00 - [135] you can avoid the "bullies" by going to 0.0 because they're generally too big pussies to follow you think of it as hiding in plain sight --------- ~THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS ICORION~
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ama-gi	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:32:00 - [136] Originally by: Bishop Stewart So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. gah, cyberbullying. meh. the mere concept of it makes me ill. I simply cannot understand the direction society is moving. Validating people who flip out because they can't handle life being less than perfect. Hell when I was a kid they didn't have cyberbullying but they sure as fukk had bullying. you didn't see people going willy nilly killing themselves , or going on shooting sprees because they were bullied. And when people do go ape** now... instead of speaking the truth and saying that the shooter was *** disturbed, we blame other people, who while not exactly being saints, were guilty of no more or no less than the bullies of decades and centuries past. If you're bullied fight back. If you can't, then get help. If you don't want to ask for help then you've got a problem. it's a social disorder of some kind most likely. It doesn't matter why you have the problem. Nor does it matter who's fault it is or what horrible things were done to you. You still have a problem and a responsibility to address the freaking problem. If you can't enjoy a freaking game b/c everyone around you doesn't behave the way YOU think they should, you also have a problem. It's affecting your enjoyment of something you've paid for. If you can't bring yourself to interact with other people long enough to make the point that you can push back when pushed that's just sad.... well **... if you haven't gotten my point by now then u won't. Eve allows us the ability to interact socially with others who play the game. It allows ones to display good manners or bad manners. Eve allows people to band together and protect each other. Eve is a very social game ... by design. Sure lots of people play solo, and that's fine. But they're playing against the nature of the game and most realize this. That's fine too. In fact I'm sure some relish the challenge of going solo when it's more difficult. Super. But then there are people like our OP. He wants things his way which is ok, and in fact eve would allow him to have things his way, if he were willing to interact with enough other people playing eve, he could be very well protected during his adventures in carebeardom. But no, he wants it handed to him ... bah threads like this make me want to puke. /rant off -- No love for the Matari
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2008.01.12 11:36:00 - [137] Oh ffs stop moaning those of you who don't like it. You can still join an alliance and get help from them, just don't join a second rate one like that numptey set up for this pathetic exploit.
Cyberbully	Posted - 2008.01.12 12:12:00 - [138] Hahaha, CCP is my *****. Cry more n00bs.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.12 14:29:00 - [139] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Nah, I like the 5th option: Move everyone out of your corp to another corp or NPC corp. Leave a placeholder CEO and 4 or 5 alts. Leave the alts online constantly in large-population systems to attract bully gangs. Have them cloaked so the war target can't confirm they're station hugging, and have to spend time looking for them. Check your alts every couple of hours -- if there's war targets in system, smack relentlessly. Try to bait them into countersmacking or saying something over the line -- then have every person you know petition them mercilessly (the Ginger Magician Removal Tactic). Undock an alt in a Reaper a couple of times a day. After the wardec is over, come out to CAOD or General and mock them relentlessly for their mighty war victory of killing 6 rookie ships. In short -- blueball, mock, defame, taunt, and let the other 99% of your corp go about their business. The aggressors won't be back. Especially if you can get an account or two of theirs banned for losing their cool. Repeat as necessary, but make sure you never step over the line -- make them do it. Griefer sissies and their highsec pirate homies always have loose cannons, you can pick off a couple of hotheads in every campaign. Torment them asymmetricaly, as they may be able to win the battle of pew, but you can win the battle of sass. If all else fails, dock up and take the week off. After all, you need to train Racial Battleship V at some point anyways... Wow, that's a lot of effort for something that absolutely does not work. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Nadjar Vendetta Underground	Posted - 2008.01.12 14:38:00 - [140] Then get some pvp experience or go back to playing wow. If you don't want a challenging game environment then find an easier game. Don't complain about a game that at least 90% of the user base support. _____________ No sig here, move along.
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.12 14:50:00 - [141] Originally by: Bishop Stewart This is my first posting in this forum. And it is a rant. Good start, eh? So. Corporations are no longer capable of using this "exploit" to counter cyberbullies who's only joy it is to grief other players ingame. Now some are probably already screaming. But it is, by all definitions, cyberbullying. They declare war on a smaller, newer corp. Knowing full well that the members of said corp are ill equipped for pvp, maybe even completely inexperienced at it. Then they demand money for the aggression to cease. Sound familiar? Many have probably seen or experienced something similar on a school playground. How many players are now going to quit this wonderful game because they can no longer enjoy it without being ganked by those who enjoy ruining other people's game experience? Those who only want to go ratting with their corporate friends, those who only want to mine, produce and enjoy the rich virtual economy? What can we do? Well, I have several options. First, implement a toggle for corporations if they want to participate in wars or not. Not any specific war, but war in general. Or, second, have CONCORD attack any faction that opens fire in high sec space. That would be realistic in their terms of keeping the peace. That would give non-pvp members of a corp a safe little zone for them to mine and rat in relative peace. Make it that a warring faction can, however, attack them in .5 and .6 space. Just not above. Or, make declaring war a LOT more expensive to keep corporations, who's sole intent is to grief other players, from happily destroying all the small corporations. If someone truly wants pvp, they will go to low sec, where it belongs. Thanks for reading my two cents on the subject. List I'm not going to flame you, I haven't bothered reading any replys here because this forum community is pretty predictable and I can venture to guess on the comments. I don't know if your the CEO of the corp or not, but the bottom line is that through good leadership you can make war decs against your corp very pointless and you can make life for the pirate corp very difficult. You just have to be willing to make some hard decesions, get involved in the war and be prepared. Here are some basics. Intelegence Intelegence about your enemy is worth its weight in ISK. Find out where the enemy corp is stationed and where they hang out by using alts and begin tracking their log in-Log out times making note of every members name. Keep notes on this in game notepad. Using alts find out what each player in the enemy corp flys and take notes on this in the in game notepad. Find the enemy corps kill boards and track their kills and who is killing them, keep notes, this is important later. Also go as far back into their kill board history as you can and try to discover who they have been at war with in the past. Keep a running list of their potential enemies (corps and alliances) and the names of the ceos of those corps and alliances. Tactics Your corp or alliance should always act as one, regardless of the odds stacked against you. No corp member or alliance member should ever be out of fleet during combat and no one should be doing anything but flying combat ships together in a group (use alts for moving inventory and assets). U can rat, run missions, mine even but make sure that everyone is combat ready. If you are grossly outnumbered, after you know where the enemy lives, pick a system as far as humanly possible away from that location and move the entire corp or alliance to that location. This system should be a 2 gate system with several stations. When running any kind of op someone preferably with a second account or an alt should be sitting on the gate in the system before the system in which the corp is hanging out watching local and reporting any enemy activity.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.01.12 14:52:00 - [142] Originally by: Thornat Intelegence Exactly - DesuSigs
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:03:00 - [143] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Nah, I like the 5th option: Move everyone out of your corp to another corp or NPC corp. Leave a placeholder CEO and 4 or 5 alts. Leave the alts online constantly in large-population systems to attract bully gangs. Have them cloaked so the war target can't confirm they're station hugging, and have to spend time looking for them. Check your alts every couple of hours -- if there's war targets in system, smack relentlessly. Try to bait them into countersmacking or saying something over the line -- then have every person you know petition them mercilessly (the Ginger Magician Removal Tactic). Undock an alt in a Reaper a couple of times a day. After the wardec is over, come out to CAOD or General and mock them relentlessly for their mighty war victory of killing 6 rookie ships. In short -- blueball, mock, defame, taunt, and let the other 99% of your corp go about their business. The aggressors won't be back. Especially if you can get an account or two of theirs banned for losing their cool. Repeat as necessary, but make sure you never step over the line -- make them do it. Griefer sissies and their highsec pirate homies always have loose cannons, you can pick off a couple of hotheads in every campaign. Torment them asymmetricaly, as they may be able to win the battle of pew, but you can win the battle of sass. If all else fails, dock up and take the week off. After all, you need to train Racial Battleship V at some point anyways... Wow, that's a lot of effort for something that absolutely does not work. Of course a pirate would say that. <space left here for pirates to epeen thump about how "if I see anyone doing what PT suggested, I'll wardec them and leave it on for 6 months> -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:08:00 - [144] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Of course a pirate would say that. <space left here for pirates to epeen thump about how "if I see anyone doing what PT suggested, I'll wardec them and leave it on for 6 months> Nono, it's just that people actually do this all the time, and I've never seen it work. In a previous corp we just kept on deccing every new corp made, as if they all go back to their old corp again it's petitionable. They have to form a new corp which means they can never build any kind of infrastructure, they can't recruit and they are rarely able to make any isk. What usually happens is that people start dropping off, eventually leading to a bitter CEO left from the original corp whining in local about how he's going to petition you for harrassment. I believe you Goons call it 'failure cascade'. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Neon Genesis The Landed Gentry	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:19:00 - [145] Originally by: Thornat This is absolutely terrible advice. The only thing a corp needs to do to avoid war is just lay low. People get bored very, very easily. _
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:40:00 - [146] Originally by: Neon Genesis Originally by: Thornat This is absolutely terrible advice. The only thing a corp needs to do to avoid war is just lay low. People get bored very, very easily. Of course you can do that, but laying low is the equivilant of 'don't log in' or 'stay in station' and if your going to play Eve not playing is not much of a strategy. Besides I'm trying to give this guy advice on how to get into playing Eve not on how to avoid playing. He's going to get War Deced a lot if he's a fledgling corp and unless he's ready to lay low 2-3 months out of the year he better learn to play the game. Quite the oppossite is true, War Decs are usually extended indefinitly by extortion corps if you aggrevate them through in-action. Its actually part of the pirate doctrine of most extortion corps, I suggest reading the rants of TRAP if you want to know how these corps think. They will extended war decs indefinitly unless you engage them and put forth some effort allowing them kills or pay up the ransom. If you avoid them by hiding in stations they vow to keep the war dec on indefinitly. I have seen war decs last three, sometimes four months.
Merritt	Posted - 2008.01.12 15:58:00 - [147] Originally by: Crumplecorn Linkage Quick and nasty, I will improve it if and when I am offically made king of the forums. Long live the king! Also... Dear CCP, please provide Aura lead vocals.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:04:00 - [148] Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Neon Genesis Originally by: Thornat This is absolutely terrible advice. The only thing a corp needs to do to avoid war is just lay low. People get bored very, very easily. Of course you can do that, but laying low is the equivilant of 'don't log in' or 'stay in station' and if your going to play Eve not playing is not much of a strategy. Besides I'm trying to give this guy advice on how to get into playing Eve not on how to avoid playing. He's going to get War Deced a lot if he's a fledgling corp and unless he's ready to lay low 2-3 months out of the year he better learn to play the game. Quite the oppossite is true, War Decs are usually extended indefinitly by extortion corps if you aggrevate them through in-action. Its actually part of the pirate doctrine of most extortion corps, I suggest reading the rants of TRAP if you want to know how these corps think. They will extended war decs indefinitly unless you engage them and put forth some effort allowing them kills or pay up the ransom. If you avoid them by hiding in stations they vow to keep the war dec on indefinitly. I have seen war decs last three, sometimes four months. hire mercenaries. --- planetary interaction idea!
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.01.12 16:14:00 - [149] Originally by: Thornat Of course you can do that, but laying low is the equivilant of 'don't log in' or 'stay in station' and if your going to play Eve not playing is not much of a strategy. Besides I'm trying to give this guy advice on how to get into playing Eve not on how to avoid playing. He's going to get War Deced a lot if he's a fledgling corp and unless he's ready to lay low 2-3 months out of the year he better learn to play the game. Quite the oppossite is true, War Decs are usually extended indefinitly by extortion corps if you aggrevate them through in-action. Its actually part of the pirate doctrine of most extortion corps, I suggest reading the rants of TRAP if you want to know how these corps think. They will extended war decs indefinitly unless you engage them and put forth some effort allowing them kills or pay up the ransom. If you avoid them by hiding in stations they vow to keep the war dec on indefinitly. I have seen war decs last three, sometimes four months. ^^ This is correct. Of course, not every high sec pirate corp operates like TRAPS does, but Nexa has created somewhat of a standard on how to extort corps, and how to get at those that try to 'win' by inaction. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Thornat	Posted - 2008.01.12 18:08:00 - [150] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Thornat Of course you can do that, but laying low is the equivilant of 'don't log in' or 'stay in station' and if your going to play Eve not playing is not much of a strategy. Besides I'm trying to give this guy advice on how to get into playing Eve not on how to avoid playing. He's going to get War Deced a lot if he's a fledgling corp and unless he's ready to lay low 2-3 months out of the year he better learn to play the game. Quite the oppossite is true, War Decs are usually extended indefinitly by extortion corps if you aggrevate them through in-action. Its actually part of the pirate doctrine of most extortion corps, I suggest reading the rants of TRAP if you want to know how these corps think. They will extended war decs indefinitly unless you engage them and put forth some effort allowing them kills or pay up the ransom. If you avoid them by hiding in stations they vow to keep the war dec on indefinitly. I have seen war decs last three, sometimes four months. ^^ This is correct. Of course, not every high sec pirate corp operates like TRAPS does, but Nexa has created somewhat of a standard on how to extort corps, and how to get at those that try to 'win' by inaction. True true... you can assume one thing, and TRAPS is a very good example. It does not take a lot of people (a big corp) to put a lot of hurt on someone. I'll take 5 experianced PvPers over a 50 man corp of carebears any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The morale of the story is that wether your a carebear corp or not, knowing how to PvP well is the best way to avoid PvP. Corps like TRAPS do not mess with real PvP corps, they are very selective and choose their targets in a fashion that ensures they will be able to dominate them in PvP. If they discover that you have a corp with really good PvPers they will not choose you as a target, as most smart extortionist corps would do. Its worth noting however that every corp out there is a good target for some corp. No matter what you do, someone will always eventually war dec you. It will always feel like it was out of the blue for no reason, but keep in mine my first point. EVE IS A WAR GAME. People play to war, so when someone war decs you when playing Eve you should be neither suprised or ill prepared. Assume you will go to war at anytime and always be ready for it.

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